Wade healthy his entire career--2nd greatest SG of all time?

[sportjames23]

Didn't want Jameer's topic to be further derailed.

[COnDEMnED]

Still playing in the east? Too many variables to know. Probably not.

[sportjames23]

Still playing in the east? Too many variables to know. Probably not.


Yeah, let's say he still played his entire career in the east.

[COnDEMnED]

While we're at it, why not hypothetically bump him a few inches taller and with larger hands?

[bballnoob1192]

if he got that 2011 chip/FMVP against the mavs he would be the third best SG even if they lose to the spurs in 2013 and 2014.

[Smoke117]

Easily.

[COnDEMnED]

Healthy his entire career with a normal eye Tracy McGrady vs your hypothetical healthy his entire career Dwayne Wade with slightly bigger hands and taller. Who is better? What if we give McGrady slightly larger hands and height too?

[Imtheman]

Still take Prime Bean

[L.Kizzle]

Could say the same about McGrady.

[BigBoss]

Nope. #1 is Black Mamba Kobe. #2 is Frobe Kobe.

[HylianNightmare]

0.6<0.7

[Wade's Rings]

Yes Easily. Would be Consensus Top 10 All-Time as well.

[Wade's Rings]

Could say the same about McGrady.

McGrady injury Free still wouldn't be better than Wade or Kobe.

[SexSymbol]

Even while healthy he didn't achieve the peak levels of Kobe. So no.

[Smoke117]

Even while healthy he didn't achieve the peak levels of Kobe. So no.

Because Kobe was ever as good as Wade in 09...:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: Wade was better offensively AND defensively than Kobe has ever been at any point in his career in that single season alone. While Kobe was taking breaks defensively so he could chuck...Wade was playing the best defense of his career while carrying the team offensively.

[SexSymbol]

Because Kobe was ever as good as Wade in 09...:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: Wade was better offensively AND defensively than Kobe has ever been at any point in his career in that single season alone. While Kobe was taking breaks defensively so he could chuck...Wade was playing the best defense of his career while carrying the team offensively.
Kobe was better than Wade in 09. And it wasn't even his best season, nor TOP3

[ShawkFactory]

Kobe was better than Wade in 09. And it wasn't even his best season, nor TOP3
:kobe:

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

Peak Kobe>peak Wade
Prime Kobe>prime Wade

in this imaginary world Wade would need serious longevity to surpass Kobe, not a given hes above Logo either

[G0ATbe]

Already is. Fan of both Jordan and Wade but honestly Wade was slightly better.

[Smoke117]

Kobe was better than Wade in 09. And it wasn't even his best season, nor TOP3


https://godofall.files.wordpress.com/2014/06/wade-laugh.gif

Do you literally have to be a stupid moron to be a Kobe stan? Is this a requirement or just a perk?

[Wade's Rings]

Because Kobe was ever as good as Wade in 09...:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: Wade was better offensively AND defensively than Kobe has ever been at any point in his career in that single season alone. While Kobe was taking breaks defensively so he could chuck...Wade was playing the best defense of his career while carrying the team offensively.

:applause:


Kobe was better than Wade in 09. And it wasn't even his best season, nor TOP3

:roll:


Already is. Fan of both Jordan and Wade but honestly Wade was slightly better.

:coleman:

[SexSymbol]

https://godofall.files.wordpress.com/2014/06/wade-laugh.gif

Do you literally have to be a stupid moron to be a Kobe stan? Is this a requirement or just a perk?
I might even say easily.
09 Wade is the most overrated defender ever, and obviously playing on a bad offensive team he'd get his shots for 30 ppg. Last time Kobe had that freedom he was scoring 35 a night, highest average in like 15 years :) You don't know much about basketball it seems, were you even watching it back then? Those long ass six years ago? Kobe was a FMVP with 32 ppg finals, while Wade was ousted in 2nd round. There's no competition here

[Showtime2001]

Even if he was healthy his entire career

Kobe >>>>>>>>>>>>> Wade.

[Wade's Rings]

Even if he was healthy his entire career

Kobe >>>>>>>>>>>>> Wade.

Nope.

[Showtime2001]

Nope.
Yup.

[ShawkFactory]

I might even say easily.
09 Wade is the most overrated defender ever, and obviously playing on a bad offensive team he'd get his shots for 30 ppg. Last time Kobe had that freedom he was scoring 35 a night, highest average in like 15 years :) You don't know much about basketball it seems, were you even watching it back then? Those long ass six years ago? Kobe was a FMVP with 32 ppg finals, while Wade was ousted in 2nd round. There's no competition here
You don't know what you're talking about.

09 Wade was a terror defensively. He was all over the court.

And his offensive output was similar to 06 Kobe if you include assists.

Kobe has the ring going for him but that's it. Wade was the better player that season. He was better offensively AND defensively.

[Wade's Rings]

You don't know what you're talking about.

09 Wade was a terror defensively. He was all over the court.

And his offensive output was similar to 06 Kobe if you include assists.

Kobe has the ring going for him but that's it. Wade was the better player that season. He was better offensively AND defensively.

:applause:


I might even say easily.
09 Wade is the most overrated defender ever, and obviously playing on a bad offensive team he'd get his shots for 30 ppg. Last time Kobe had that freedom he was scoring 35 a night, highest average in like 15 years :) You don't know much about basketball it seems, were you even watching it back then? Those long ass six years ago? Kobe was a FMVP with 32 ppg finals, while Wade was ousted in 2nd round. There's no competition here

Wade took 22 Shots for 30 ppg on 49% shooting. Kobe took 27 shots for 35 ppg on 45% shooting.Wade wasn't shooting 27 shots a game.

Wade averaged 38 points on 51% shooting vs the 2009 Magic.

[CavaliersFTW]

Healthy Wade still was never better than prime Jerry West, let alone prime Kobe Bryant.

[D-Wade316]

Healthy Wade still was never better than prime Jerry West, let alone prime Kobe Bryant.
Quite a fool, you are.

[Micku]

Because Kobe was ever as good as Wade in 09...:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: Wade was better offensively AND defensively than Kobe has ever been at any point in his career in that single season alone. While Kobe was taking breaks defensively so he could chuck...Wade was playing the best defense of his career while carrying the team offensively.

I would kind'a disagree here. Kobe at his peak defensively I think would be in 2000. He was a better man to man defender than Wade. Wade was a better help defender tho. But I think Kobe, whenever he tried, was always a better man to man defender than Wade. The problem is that he never could balance out the two much, while Wade did.

Offensively is a bit complex. Kobe is without a doubt the better scorer tho. Even though Wade has a higher FG%, Kobe had a similar or sometimes better TS% than Wade. Since TS include FTs and 3s, Kobe efficiency as a scorer was better pre big 3 era with the Heat. His 07 and 08 season, Kobe had a better TS than Wade. So even if they would have the same FGA, Kobe would have more points.

But Wade's passing is what shines here tho. His team benefited a lot with him on the floor. The stats also indicates that. Offensively he was great.

[CavaliersFTW]

Quite a fool, you are.
Wade couldn't score 81 points in his sleep.

Nor could he average 44 points a game for a playoffs series.

Kobe could.

West could.

Wade is a great ****ing player. But if I wanted a shooting guard to build a team around I'd pick West or Kobe over Wade without much hesitation.

[Wade's Rings]

Wade couldn't score 81 points in his sleep.

Nor could he average 44 points a game for a playoffs series.

Kobe could.

West could.

Wade is a great ****ing player. But if I wanted a shooting guard to build a team around I'd pick West or Kobe over Wade without much hesitation.

Are we not going to factor in pace for Jerry West's Era? Or the fact he's 1-9 in the Finals?

Kobe scoring 81...wow Wade averaged 38 points on 51% against the Best Defense in the League.
Wade had a 4 Game Stretch in the ECF dropping 31 on 70% shooting, against a Top 5 Defense, the only Perimeter Player EVER to do that.

However you're going to pick Kobe because of 1 Game :applause:

[D-Wade316]

Wade couldn't score 81 points in his sleep.

Nor could he average 44 points a game for a playoffs series.

Kobe could.

West could.

Wade is a great ****ing player. But if I wanted a shooting guard to build a team around I'd pick West or Kobe over Wade without much hesitation.
The same year Kobe had his highest scoring season, Wade was better, as proven in the playoffs. He merely played on more minutes with weaker supporting cast. Wade, with the same weak teammates, produced better better numbers(2007). Think about that. :oldlol:

Or are we just basing impact on raw numbers? Typical Wilt fan. (I'm a fan of Wilt)

[CavaliersFTW]

Are we not going to factor in pace for Jerry West's Era? Or the fact he's 1-9 in the Finals?

Kobe scoring 81...wow Wade averaged 38 points on 51% against the Best Defense in the League.
Wade had a 4 Game Stretch in the ECF dropping 31 on 70% shooting, against a Top 5 Defense, the only Perimeter Player EVER to do that.

However you're going to pick Kobe because of 1 Game :applause:
I'm picking Kobe because he's the better player actually.

Same with Jerry West.

I'd pick Jordan over both of them of course, but those are the next two shooting guards in line, not Wade, Tmac, Iverson or anyone else has convinced me they are better players.

[D-Wade316]

Are we not going to factor in pace for Jerry West's Era? Or the fact he's 1-9 in the Finals?

Kobe scoring 81...wow Wade averaged 38 points on 51% against the Best Defense in the League.
Wade had a 4 Game Stretch in the ECF dropping 31 on 70% shooting, against a Top 5 Defense, the only Perimeter Player EVER to do that.

However you're going to pick Kobe because of 1 Game :applause:
Against the Raptors. :roll:

[CavaliersFTW]

The same year Kobe had his highest scoring season, Wade was better, as proven in the playoffs. He merely played on more minutes with weaker supporting cast. Wade, with the same weak teammates, produced better better numbers(2007). Think about that. :oldlol:

Or are we just basing impact on raw numbers? Typical Wilt fan. (I'm a fan of Wilt)
As I said, I'm basing it off my observations of who the better players are.

[D-Wade316]

As I said, I'm basing it off my observations of who the better players are.
And your observations are rather foolish. Yeah Kobe's 2006 season was great. But it's not like it's some all-time great season. Dude chucked and chucked away like no one has ever done before, and he had to be one of the worst defenders in the league to achieve those numbers. LMAO at the All-Defensive 1st team award.

[Micku]

Wade couldn't score 81 points in his sleep.

Nor could he average 44 points a game for a playoffs series.

Kobe could.

West could.

Wade is a great ****ing player. But if I wanted a shooting guard to build a team around I'd pick West or Kobe over Wade without much hesitation.

No one could score 81 points in their sleep =p

Eh. The scoring part matters, but it isn't the end all to be all I feel. Wade did all other things extremely well, but he isn't the best scorer. Kobe, West, T-Mac, George Gervin and AI (volume tho) were better than him in terms of scoring. Although Wade's playmaking and defensive skills were excellent. And he was efficient at it, so he stands with those guys. But you could do that with a few other players like KD with LeBron, Bird and etc.

But I would personally take Kobe over Wade too, but mostly over longevity reasons and consistency. I need to watch more of Jerry West tho.

[Wade's Rings]

The same year Kobe had his highest scoring season, Wade was better, as proven in the playoffs. He merely played on more minutes with weaker supporting cast. Wade, with the same weak teammates, produced better better numbers(2007). Think about that. :oldlol:

Or are we just basing impact on raw numbers? Typical Wilt fan. (I'm a fan of Wilt)

Wade's 2009 Numbers & Defense were better than 2006 Kobe.

[TheBigVeto]

No.
He's better than Kobe but he's not top 10. His success was due to the refs and David Stern.

[D-Wade316]

No one could score 81 points in their sleep =p

Eh. The scoring part matters, but it isn't the end all to be all I feel. Wade did all other things extremely well, but he isn't the best scorer. Kobe, West, T-Mac, George Gervin and AI (volume tho) were better than him in terms of scoring. Although Wade's playmaking and defensive skills were excellent. And he was efficient at it, so he stands with those guys. But you could do that with a few other players like KD with LeBron, Bird and etc.

But I would personally take Kobe over Wade too, but mostly over longevity reasons and consistency. I need to watch more of Jerry West tho.
Stop. Wade is just as good as a scorer as Kobe, Durant, West, and Lebron is. ****ing hate this impression he does not score enough or has lesser skills than the 4 mentioned. :facepalm Much more AI, McGrady, Gervin. :oldlol:

[Showtime2001]

Stop. Wade is just as good as a scorer as Kobe, Durant, West, and Lebron is. ****ing hate this impression he does not score enough or has lesser skills than the 4 mentioned. :facepalm Much more AI, McGrady, Gervin. :oldlol:
http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6067/6081114162_eae14ba471_o.gif

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Depends on the teams he would've played on. It'd be much closer than it is today, but I would still probably roll with Kobe.

His appetite for success and individual/self preservation is unmatched far as players today go.

[D-Wade316]

http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6067/6081114162_eae14ba471_o.gif
Is this your best rebuttal? Weak.

[DMAVS41]

If he and Kobe had similar teams and coaching throughout?

Sure...I'd go with Wade ever so slightly over Kobe.

[Wade's Rings]

Depends on the teams he would've played on. It'd be much closer than it is today, but I would still probably roll with Kobe. His appetite for success and individual preservation is unmatched far as players today go.

IMO if they win the 2005 Finals, they don't split that team up and they would repeat easily in 2006.
2007 would be another Finals Appearance and then they would be split up.
2008 would depend on Free Agents available in 2007 and how well they construct the team around Wade & a Declining Shaq.
Shaq would probably stay through 2009 if they were making Finals and still in Contention.

[Micku]

Stop. Wade is just as good as a scorer as Kobe, Durant, West, and Lebron is. ****ing hate this impression he does not score enough or has lesser skills than the 4 mentioned. :facepalm Much more AI, McGrady, Gervin. :oldlol:

If he was as good as a scorer, he would've multiple seasons with 30+ points on great efficiency.

AI shoot with volume but with less effienency, so you can probably argue there. T-Mac peak could get his shot more. Wade is more choicey about his shot selection and smarter imo. Gervin was just better. Better shooter, better driver, better FT shooter and probably better with the post up.

Dude averaged in 1980 33.1ppg on 53% and 85.2% FT shooting. Wade ain't got sh1t on that.

You can argue that Wade is a better offensive player tho since Gervin isn't nearly as good as playmaker. But as a pure scorer? Gervin is better.

---

You could argue that he could've scored more if he wanted to tho. No way to prove that, but he could've had more FGA. To me, there are some players that could average more points if they tried, but don't to do other things.

[D-Wade316]

If he was as good as a scorer, he would've multiple seasons with 30+ points on great efficiency.

AI shoot with volume but with less effienency, so you can probably argue there. T-Mac peak could get his shot more. Wade is more choicey about his shot selection and smarter imo. Gervin was just better. Better shooter, better driver, better FT shooter and probably better with the post up.

Dude averaged in 1980 33.1ppg on 53% and 85.2% FT shooting. Wade ain't got sh1t on that.

You can argue that Wade is a better offensive player tho since Gervin isn't nearly as good as playmaker. But as a pure scorer? Gervin is better.
Shaq only averaged 30+ once. Yet universally considered one of the GOAT scorers. :confusedshrug: As for Gervin he had the luxury of playing in a higher paced era. Adjusted per possession Wade actually scores more. Look it up yourself. :confusedshrug: Finally, Wade can get his shot just often as T-Mac, while also looking to playmake. And you said it yourself, Wade is more choosy and smarter which puts him at a level above T-Mac and AI.

[tpols]

The same year Kobe had his highest scoring season, Wade was better, as proven in the playoffs. He merely played on more minutes with weaker supporting cast. Wade, with the same weak teammates, produced better better numbers(2007). Think about that. :oldlol:

Or are we just basing impact on raw numbers? Typical Wilt fan. (I'm a fan of Wilt)

Wade had shaq coming off a 2nd mvp finish.. out east nonetheless.:rolleyes:

Kobe had a garbage cast out west vs a 1 seed stacked sun's team.

please.. try to use some context.

[Wade's Rings]

Wade had shaq coming off a 2nd mvp finish.. out east nonetheless.:rolleyes:

Kobe had a garbage cast out west vs a 1 seed stacked sun's team.

please.. try to use some context.

He's talking about 2006.

Shaq's MVP Voting was mostly because Miami went from 42 Wins to 59 Wins. He arguably was the 2nd Best Player on his team after Wade in the Regular Season.

Are you mentioning Conferences because of the Win Column was the main reason for Shaq's MVP bid?

[tpols]

He's talking about 2006.

I know.. shaq came in second mvp 2005

[Prime_Shaq]

I don't think he would surpass Kobe but it'll be close. Wade was robbed of the MVP in 2009 though.

[Wade's Rings]

I don't think he would surpass Kobe but it'll be close. Wade was robbed of the MVP in 2009 though.

Could Potentially have 2 more Finals MVPs, 1-2 MVPs, and his 2006-2008 Seasons would be equivalent to his 2008-2009 Season.

[D-Wade316]

Wade had shaq coming off a 2nd mvp finish.. out east nonetheless.:rolleyes:

Kobe had a garbage cast out west vs a 1 seed stacked sun's team.

please.. try to use some context.
Shaq played 59 games that year. And let's not act like the Pistons are your typical sub-50% to 40% winning teams that make the playoffs. They had the best record that year. Both East and West had 3 teams each of 50+ wins. Look at the conference standings. The West only has the small advantage. This is not 2014 or 2015.

The Lakers were destined to loss that series, but the Suns' are not good defensively. So he should have been better.

[Micku]

Shaq only averaged 30+ once. Yet universally considered one of the GOAT scorers. :confusedshrug: As for Gervin he had the luxury of playing in a higher paced era. Adjusted per possession Wade actually scores more. Look it up yourself. :confusedshrug: Finally, Wade can get his shot just often as T-Mac, while also looking to playmake. And you said it yourself, Wade is more choosy and smarter which puts him at a level above T-Mac and AI.

You don't have to score 30 ppg multiple seasons to be one considered of the GOAT scorers. That's not what I'm saying. But those guys who had multiple 30ppg on decent to great efficiency beats out what Wade averaged.

And Gervin efficiency, even in the 70s and 80s was above average. The average FG% in 81 was 48.1%. Gervin had 52.8%. The FGA doesn't usually change regardless of pace with stars. Stars will get their shots no matter what. Barkley, MJ, Kareem, Wilkins all proved this since they played across eras and decade. Gervin as well since he played in the 70s and 80s when the pace changed.

And while you are right that adjusted per possession Wade averages more ppg of his career, but not peak vs peak. And even if you want to continue to use this argument, then Kobe is without a doubt better career and peak wise, T-Mac at his peak was better slightly, Durant is about the same as him, but his efficiency was better.

[Cold soul]

Nah, Kobe was the greater individual player but Wade wasn't that far off his peak was his 09 season it was all-time great he was unreal in all phases of the game that year. :bowdown:

[D-Wade316]

You don't have to score 30 ppg multiple seasons to be one considered of the GOAT scorers. That's not what I'm saying. But those guys who had multiple 30ppg on decent to great efficiency beats out what Wade averaged.

And Gervin efficiency, even in the 70s and 80s was above average. The average FG% in 81 was 48.1%. Gervin had 52.8%. The FGA doesn't usually change regardless of pace with stars. Stars will get their shots no matter what. Barkley, MJ, Kareem, Wilkins all proved this since they played across eras and decade. Gervin as well since he played in the 70s and 80s when the pace changed.

And while you are right that adjusted per possession Wade averages more ppg of his career, but not peak vs peak. And even if you want to continue to use this argument, then Kobe is without a doubt better career and peak wise, T-Mac at his peak was better slightly, Durant is about the same as him, but his efficiency was better.
Actually, I adjusted for 81 and 09. And yes, peak by peak Gervin outscores by 0.6 adjusted per possession. Not much really. He's also more efficient so you can have that. But he is only the better shooter. Wade's slashing is GOAT level. No one can break defenses on the drive as he does, not named Jordan. His post-up game is underrated. Really sad how people overlook this and say Wade's game is based solely on penetration.

Same for T-Mac by 0.2 with lesser efficiency. Again, the difference is small so let's stop putting ahead T-Mac when both scores about the same on volume and efficiency. Kobe outscores Wade by 3.6 adjusted but on much less efficiency, greater than the difference between Wade and T-Mac. Durant scores exactly the same adjusted, and on much better efficiency because of his shooting. But that's his game. Wade could slash and post. He lacks 3pt shooting but he offsets it with his midrange game.

I would readily admit that Wade, because of his complete package in offense, isn't willing to score enough. Also his efficiency, that he refuses to take bad shots and settles mostly for drives. He attacks only when the best opportunity presents itself. You would rarely see him go 1v1. But that's what makes him such a potent scorer. Settling for the best translates well during the Playoffs. We now his track record against great defenses when healthy. Let's also not act like Wade is a one-dimensional scorer who merely slashes. Off-ball(the best in the league during the Big 3 era), PnR, midrange, and post play. Topping that is having basketball smarts only the all-time greats have. So please stop being ignorant that Wade is any less than the players discussed here.

[ClipperRevival]

I don't think he would surpass Kobe but it'll be close. Wade was robbed of the MVP in 2009 though.

You don't win mvp by going 43-39.

[ClipperRevival]

Peak for peak, Kobe > Wade. And Kobe also had the longevity. So even if Wade were healthy, I don't know if you can say he would surpass Kobe. Kobe has quite a resume. 5 rings, 2 fmvp and 1 mvp. Wade has 3 rings, 1 fmvp and no mvp.

I still consider Wade the 3rd best sg ever as it stands. His ability to break down defenses and get to the basket was about as good as anyone outside of MJ. The guy was so smooth.

[Droid101]

Kobe, not close.


But as stated, if you gave Wade bigger hands and 4 more inches, it's possible. Shoot, why not spot him a few MVP trophies too?

[Heavincent]

No.

[sportjames23]

Already is. Fan of both Jordan and Wade but honestly Wade was slightly better.


http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6067/6081114162_eae14ba471_o.gif

[AirFederer]

No doubt.
A better defender, closer, passer and teammate than Kobe.

[navy]

Agreed.

[Shih508]

People keep forgetting one very important fact that Wade plays his whole career in no hand checking rule except for his rookie season.

If AI and TMac had played as many seasons as Wade did in no hand checking rule. They'd avg more points per game while being way more efficient than their stats showed.

[Alan Ogg]

If Wade's healthy in 2005, the HEAT make it to the Finals. Hypothetically, if Wade won Finals MVP in 2005, 2006, and 2011, he'd have a case.

[PJR]

People keep forgetting one very important fact that Wade plays his whole career in no hand checking rule except for his rookie season.

If AI and TMac had played as many seasons as Wade did in no hand checking rule. They'd avg more points per game while being way more efficient than their stats showed.

Who cares. Wade's a better, more effcient, and more complete player than both


Any rules. Any era.

[AirFederer]

Already is. Fan of both Jordan and Wade but honestly Wade was slightly better.
http://cdn.necolebitchie.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/kobe-bryant05.jpg

[IllegalD]

Agreed.

But just imagine if Kobe was healthy his entire career.

http://i.imgur.com/VP23SAC.gif

He would be the undisputed GOAT! :bowdown:

All those injuries and still accomplished all he did. :eek:

[AirFederer]

Agreed.

But just imagine if Kobe was healthy his entire career.

http://i.imgur.com/VP23SAC.gif

He would be the undisputed GOAT! :bowdown:

All those injuries and still accomplished all he did. :eek:
http://media.giphy.com/media/afTPs2HHoUHOo/giphy.gif

[IllegalD]

http://i.imgur.com/Mdxif2Q.jpg?1

[aj1987]

:roll: @ that Cav's dude. Wade would make West quit basketball. Wade and Kobe played in the best era ever for perimeter players. West played in a ultra high pace weak ass era.

Wade is arguably better than Kobe peaks wise. If Wade was injury free? Extremely close.

[oarabbus]

:roll: @ that Cav's dude. Wade would make West quit basketball. Wade and Kobe played in the best era ever for perimeter players. West played in a ultra high pace weak ass era.

Wade is arguably better than Kobe peaks wise. If Wade was injury free? Extremely close.

Strong underrating of Jerry West. Wade would have his plate full with West AT BEST

[Micku]

Actually, I adjusted for 81 and 09. And yes, peak by peak Gervin outscores by 0.6 adjusted per possession. Not much really. He's also more efficient so you can have that. But he is only the better shooter. Wade's slashing is GOAT level. No one can break defenses on the drive as he does, not named Jordan. His post-up game is underrated. Really sad how people overlook this and say Wade's game is based solely on penetration.

We don't really know that for certain. From the games that I watched, Gervin played a bit in the post and had decent footwork. His length makes it difficult to guard his shots. So, he could've been equal or better than Wade in that regard. He was also known for his crazy awesome finger rolls when driving to the basket. He wasn't as agile as Wade, so I think Wade is the better slasher, but Gervin could've been a better finisher than him.

We don't have the stats to say for certain. Wade is a better defender and playmaker tho. But Gervin was more efficient overall as a scorer it seems. A better shooter and just as solid with the post game.


Same for T-Mac by 0.2 with lesser efficiency. Again, the difference is small so let's stop putting ahead T-Mac when both scores about the same on volume and efficiency. Kobe outscores Wade by 3.6 adjusted but on much less efficiency, greater than the difference between Wade and T-Mac. Durant scores exactly the same adjusted, and on much better efficiency because of his shooting. But that's his game. Wade could slash and post. He lacks 3pt shooting but he offsets it with his midrange game.

This is true, but it also depends on which stat you are using. In this case, you are right.

This whole thing we have to discuss within context. Like for Kobe in 07 for example, his FG and eFG are worse than Wade, but his TS% is better than every Wade season prior to the big 3 era. He has more value to his shots due to being a superior FT shooter and 3pt shooter. So even if they shoot the same amount, Kobe would have more points. However, this doesn't translate within the Per 100 Poss stat because it depends on the pace and whatever a guy like Kobe could average the same shots and percentage if played at the Heat's pace.



I would readily admit that Wade, because of his complete package in offense, isn't willing to score enough. Also his efficiency, that he refuses to take bad shots and settles mostly for drives. He attacks only when the best opportunity presents itself. You would rarely see him go 1v1. But that's what makes him such a potent scorer. Settling for the best translates well during the Playoffs. We now his track record against great defenses when healthy. Let's also not act like Wade is a one-dimensional scorer who merely slashes. Off-ball(the best in the league during the Big 3 era), PnR, midrange, and post play. Topping that is having basketball smarts only the all-time greats have. So please stop being ignorant that Wade is any less than the players discussed here.

And this is something that's a bit different to argue. There are a few players like Wade that could score more, but don't. As you mentioned, he settles for the best opportunity and limits on bad shots. Sometimes it could be a fault tho form what I seen, but sometimes it's great for elite defenses as Wade shown in the past when he faced teams like the Celtics and Pistons. And it's good for the playoffs as you mentioned.

Anyway, this could be a fault towards Wade as well. A guy like Kobe doesn't care about that. As mentioned before, Kobe TS% is basically the same as Wade in his prime but scored more points. His slightly above average FT shooting is what's keeping him down and his non selfish nature as a better scorer. At least with Kobe, even though Wade was a great scorer himself. As you mentioned, he was one of the best at his peak.

[SexSymbol]

You don't know what you're talking about.

09 Wade was a terror defensively. He was all over the court.

And his offensive output was similar to 06 Kobe if you include assists.

Kobe has the ring going for him but that's it. Wade was the better player that season. He was better offensively AND defensively.
As if the ring doesn't mean much lol, it's easily the deciding factor here. They had similar statistics, but Kobe was 5 times the player in the POs.
Wade can't do shit while he's the main guy, had to bailed out by the refs in 06, and couldn't win with a great supporting cast in 11.

And you seriously need to go back to watch regular games of 09 season, Wade was not that good defensively as you're trying to imply

[34-24 Footwork]

The fact that people argue the SECOND half of Kobe's career vs. Wade's is incredible. Lol. You know Kobe has been a better player if people REFUSE to give credit to Kobe for 2000-2005. Dude went up against a healthy AI, TMAC, Vince Carter, Prime Jailblazers, Prime Duncan, Ginobli, Prime Igoundala, Carmelo and etc.

You know it's bad when you've dominated these types of players on the court in their prime, but never get proper credit for it.

Kobe gets the nod based off competition ALONE.

[305Baller]

The fact that people argue the SECOND half of Kobe's career vs. Wade's is incredible. Lol. You know Kobe has been a better player if people REFUSE to give credit to Kobe for 2000-2005. Dude went up against a healthy AI, TMAC, Vince Carter, Prime Jailblazers, Prime Duncan, Ginobli, Prime Igoundala, Carmelo and etc.

You know it's bad when you've dominated these types of players on the court in their prime, but never get proper credit for it.

Kobe gets the nod based off competition ALONE.

You are right.

[34-24 Footwork]

You are right.

Serious question, were you even old enough to see Prime Igoundala? You know what team he was on prior to the Warriors? Lol.

[305Baller]

Serious question, were you even old enough to see Prime Igoundala? You know what team he was on prior to the Warriors? Lol.

The Philly 49ers.

http://www.csnphilly.com/sites/csnphilly/files/styles/scale_282px_wide/public/ben.franklin.logo_.jpg

then Denver.

[HALLandOATES]

He really already has an argument to some people ..his peak is virtually known to be better than kobes...to me if he had that ring in 05' or 11' as the man he'd be infront of Kobe as num 2 Instead of num 3 as SG .hed also be top 10-15ish instead of 20ish if he had that ring

[Wade's Rings]

Kobe, not close


But as stated, if you gave Wade bigger hands and 4 more inches, it's possible. Shoot, why not spot him a few MVP trophies too?

:roll:

[Wade's Rings]

As if the ring doesn't mean much lol, it's easily the deciding factor here. They had similar statistics, but Kobe was 5 times the player in the POs.
Wade can't do shit while he's the main guy, had to bailed out by the refs in 06, and couldn't win with a great supporting cast in 11.

And you seriously need to go back to watch regular games of 09 season, Wade was not that good defensively as you're trying to imply

5 Times the Player in the Playoff :oldlol: So Horry was 7 Times the Player in the Playoffs?

If Wade was healthy he has 2 More Finals Trips(he has 7 trips like Kobe), Potentially 2 more Finals MVPs(3 > 2), At least 1 MVP potentially 2(1=1), and he would have multiple seasons equivalent to his 2009 Season.

Kobe had a series averaging 16 Free Throws per Game and another averaging 15 Free Throws per Game seems like the refs have been bailing him out as well.

Lebron choked in 2011. I'll blame Kobe for not making it out of the 1st Round without Pau/Shaq & losing in 2008, 2011-2013.

Over 100 Steals and 100 Blocks, altered shots, ruined possessions, Man Defense was great. He was also 3rd in DPOY Voting.

[dynasty1978]

If Kobe was healthy his entire career (2 knee surgeries, shoulder surgery, achilles, etc.,), the gap between his standing as #2 SG all time and #3 would be even wider.

[dynasty1978]

The fact that people argue the SECOND half of Kobe's career vs. Wade's is incredible. Lol. You know Kobe has been a better player if people REFUSE to give credit to Kobe for 2000-2005. Dude went up against a healthy AI, TMAC, Vince Carter, Prime Jailblazers, Prime Duncan, Ginobli, Prime Igoundala, Carmelo and etc.

You know it's bad when you've dominated these types of players on the court in their prime, but never get proper credit for it.

Kobe gets the nod based off competition ALONE.

This. Kids and their memories will never know just how dominant Kobe was early in his career (especially 2003). As good as Duncan was that year, it was T-mac and Kobe grabbing the headlines as best all-around player in the league.

[blablabla]

Why are all of you so amazed by that 08-09 season acting like Kobe never even came close to a statline like that. In case you forgot he had 30-6-7 in 03 and it's not even his best season. In 09-10 Wade was healthy too as far as i can remember and didn't come close to the season he had the year prior. Sorry but healthy or not there is no contest at no point was Wade the better basketball player

[aj1987]

Why are all of you so amazed by that 08-09 season acting like Kobe never even came close to a statline like that. In case you forgot he had 30-6-7 in 03 and it's not even his best season. In 09-10 Wade was healthy too as far as i can remember and didn't come close to the season he had the year prior. Sorry but healthy or not there is no contest at no point was Wade the better basketball player
:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

[ArbitraryWater]

Kobe, not close.


But as stated, if you gave Wade bigger hands and 4 more inches, it's possible. Shoot, why not spot him a few MVP trophies too?

Kobe fans still so insecure?

God damn, its a hypothetical, you don't have to be worried, it hasnt happened in reality....

[Ne 1]

Because Kobe was ever as good as Wade in 09


I prefer 2008 Kobe over 2009 Wade. I'd take him as a scorer, and his all around game was at least as good, imo. Plus, Kobe actually played more within a team concept that year than Wade did in '09, though that has a lot to do with their rosters. Kobe's roster wasn't that good until they acquired Gasol, though. I'd also take 2006 Kobe as a one man army over '09 Wade.

[ShawkFactory]

As if the ring doesn't mean much lol, it's easily the deciding factor here. They had similar statistics, but Kobe was 5 times the player in the POs.
Wade can't do shit while he's the main guy, had to bailed out by the refs in 06, and couldn't win with a great supporting cast in 11.

And you seriously need to go back to watch regular games of 09 season, Wade was not that good defensively as you're trying to imply
No its not. Wade had a garbage cast in 2009. Similar to Kobe in 06.

They didn't have similar statistics. Wade was better across the board.

[choppermagic]

The fact that people argue the SECOND half of Kobe's career vs. Wade's is incredible. Lol. You know Kobe has been a better player if people REFUSE to give credit to Kobe for 2000-2005. Dude went up against a healthy AI, TMAC, Vince Carter, Prime Jailblazers, Prime Duncan, Ginobli, Prime Igoundala, Carmelo and etc.

You know it's bad when you've dominated these types of players on the court in their prime, but never get proper credit for it.

Kobe gets the nod based off competition ALONE.

Truth.

And Wade being better offensively than Kobe? Laughable. Kobe had historic runs throughout his career that Wade couldn't even get close to. 81 points? yeah. And 62 points in three quarters just before that game too. Wade couldnt even hope to get. I'm not even sure how many people will remember Wade in 10 years, while Kobe will be one of the standouts in NBA history.

I'd take the Logo over Wade too. Dude won the FMVP in a losing effort. That's hardcore. Better than grabbing your eye flopping to the floor against the Mavs in the finals.

[HOoopCityJones]

Kobe and it's not even close.

Biggest indication is how these Wade stans clinch on to one season in 09 and wanna cut off half Kobe's career before Shaq left. Wade has to also have unrealistic longevity where as Kobe's suffered similar injuries his whole career,(if not more) just the difference is he's not a *****.

All of these requirements have to be met before one can compare the two and that's the sad part.

[ShawkFactory]

Kobe and it's not even close.

Biggest indication is how these Wade stans clinch on to one season in 09 and wanna cut off Kobe's career before Shaq left. Wade has to also have unrealistic longevity where as Kobe's suffered similar injuries his whole career,(if not more) just the difference is he's not a *****.

All of these requirements have to be met before one can compare the two and that's the sad part.
Well that's not true..but even if it was, Wade's style of play is more hindered with injuries. If he can't fly around the court like a whirling dervish he isn't as effective as he's capable of being. Or even close to it.

I'll agree on the longevity. Kobe's is almost unprecedented, and even if Wade didn't suffer injuries its not likely that he would enjoy the same level. This is why I still think Kobe would be #2, even though I think Wade at his absolute best is just as good of a player.

[ClipperRevival]

Well that's not true..but even if it was, Wade's style of play is more hindered with injuries. If he can't fly around the court like a whirling dervish he isn't as effective as he's capable of being. Or even close to it.

I'll agree on the longevity. Kobe's is almost unprecedented, and even if Wade didn't suffer injuries its not likely that he would enjoy the same level. This is why I still think Kobe would be #2, even though I think Wade at his absolute best is just as good of a player.

That's really all the Wade fans have in their defense. That one season in 2009. But if we are being objective here, Kobe simply had the better career and for most of his career, he was also the better player.

We can talk what if scenarios all day long but it is what it is. Wade was healthy for enough years where we can properly judge him. Sure, at his peak, maybe you can compare him to Kobe. But for an entire career? I don't see how you can. Being the 3rd best SG ever is what Wade was, right behind MJ and Kobe. And that's not bad company.

[aj1987]

Truth.

And Wade being better offensively than Kobe? Laughable. Kobe had historic runs throughout his career that Wade couldn't even get close to. 81 points? yeah. And 62 points in three quarters just before that game too. Wade couldnt even hope to get. I'm not even sure how many people will remember Wade in 10 years, while Kobe will be one of the standouts in NBA history.

I'd take the Logo over Wade too. Dude won the FMVP in a losing effort. That's hardcore. Better than grabbing your eye flopping to the floor against the Mavs in the finals.
Well, that's because you're a retard.

That play was from '11, BTW. Dumbass.

One season? Are you Kobe stans for real? '05-'11 Wade was pretty much as good as prime Kobe. They were extremely close as far as players go. Of course, you couldn't go wrong with either (barring injuries).

[Wade's Rings]

Truth.

And Wade being better offensively than Kobe? Laughable. Kobe had historic runs throughout his career that Wade couldn't even get close to. 81 points? yeah. And 62 points in three quarters just before that game too. Wade couldnt even hope to get. I'm not even sure how many people will remember Wade in 10 years, while Kobe will be one of the standouts in NBA history.

I'd take the Logo over Wade too. Dude won the FMVP in a losing effort. That's hardcore. Better than grabbing your eye flopping to the floor against the Mavs in the finals.

Kobe's had a series shooting 16 Free Throws a Game and another shooting 15 Free Throws per Game. That same game he dropped 62 on Dallas he shot 25 Free Throws through 3 Quarters.

Kobe's never had a series like Wade's 2006 Finals. Kobe's never dropped 37/6/11/3/1 over a month. Kobe's never dropped 31 shooting 70% for 4 straight Games against a Top 5 Defense.

[ClipperRevival]

Kobe's had a series shooting 16 Free Throws a Game and another shooting 15 Free Throws per Game. That same game he dropped 62 on Dallas he shot 25 Free Throws through 3 Quarters.

Kobe's never had a series like Wade's 2006 Finals. Kobe's never dropped 37/6/11/3/1 over a month. Kobe's never dropped 31 shooting 70% for 4 straight Games against a Top 5 Defense.

And Wade never averaged 35.4 ppg over a season. Wade never scored 81 pts, 65 pts and 61 pts in a game. Or outscore a team in the first 3 quarters. Wade never won regular season MVP. Kobe has 2 fmvp.

We can do this all day. What is your point? That Wade had a higher peak? That's arguable. But if you want to say that he had a better career, I will laugh in your face.

[kennethgriffin]

well he still loses in 2004
spurs still win in 2005
heat won in 2006
spurs still win in 2007
celtics still win in 2008
lakers still win in 2009
lakers still win in 2010
lebron still quits in 2011
heat win by a larger margin in 2012
heat win by a larger margin in 2013
spurs still win in 2014
heat still lose in 2015



so he ends up with the same amount of rings



i dont see how it helps.

[TheMarkMadsen]

And Wade never averaged 35.4 ppg over a season. Wade never scored 81 pts, 65 pts and 61 pts in a game. Or outscore a team in the first 3 quarters. Wade never won regular season MVP. Kobe has 2 fmvp.

We can do this all day. What is your point? That Wade had a higher peak? That's arguable. But if you want to say that he had a better career, I will laugh in your face.

Wade has also never averaged 40ppg for a month, twice

he's never scored 50+ in 4 straight games

and lets not forget...

Kobe from 06-07 (2 seasons) had ten more 40+ point game than Wade's had in his entire career :lol :lol

[ClipperRevival]

Wade never had a stretch where he scored 40+ points in 13 straight games. Or score 50+ points in 4 straight games. Like I said, we can do this all day long.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

That's really all the Wade fans have in their defense. That one season in 2009. But if we are being objective here, Kobe simply had the better career and for most of his career, he was also the better player.

We can talk what if scenarios all day long but it is what it is. Wade was healthy for enough years where we can properly judge him. Sure, at his peak, maybe you can compare him to Kobe. But for an entire career? I don't see how you can. Being the 3rd best SG ever is what Wade was, right behind MJ and Kobe. And that's not bad company.
I normally don't agree with your posts, but a lot of this is TRUE. What if scenarios are just that; on the flipside, we would be remiss not to point out Kobe's injuries in 2004, 2005, 2008 (mangled fingers), 2010 (knee that needed to be drained all postseason), 2011, and 2013 (one of his better offensive seasons before going down w/ the achilles injury).

When we add up those seasons, it makes the comparison a bit more lopsided no? Could you then imagine the already sizable gap between the two?

Point being, if you're going to use all these injury excuses for Wade (who by all means deserves them knowing what we've seen in his prime), you gotta do so for Kobe as well.

[ClipperRevival]

The notion that Wade was a better scorer is laughable. He was the better slasher and better at attacking the basket but that is not the same as being the better scorer. How can anyone with a straight face say that Wade was a better scorer than Kobe, even peak for peak? Heck, at his peak, you can argue that Kobe was the GREATEST PERIMETER scorer ever, even over MJ because Kobe had the ability to get hot from deep.

[TheMarkMadsen]

if you put Wade's name next to Kobe's accomplishments and then put Kobe's name next to Wade's accomplishments nobody would ever take these discussions seriously, its the hate for Kobe that makes these possible

I mean Kobe has 5 rings and still gets 0 credit on ISH, can you imagine if Kobe fans only had one season which ended in a first round to clinch onto in every single debate??

[Wade's Rings]

That's really all the Wade fans have in their defense. That one season in 2009. But if we are being objective here, Kobe simply had the better career and for most of his career, he was also the better player.

We can talk what if scenarios all day long but it is what it is. Wade was healthy for enough years where we can properly judge him. Sure, at his peak, maybe you can compare him to Kobe. But for an entire career? I don't see how you can. Being the 3rd best SG ever is what Wade was, right behind MJ and Kobe. And that's not bad company.


2005: 24/5/7. One Playoff series against a Top 5 Defense dropping 26/8/6 shooting 50% joining Magic, Bird, Cousy, Jordan, Drexler,and Oscar as the only Players to do that. Next drops 31/8/7 shooting 50% joining the same players above as the only Players to do that.

2006: 27/6/7. Drops 28/6/6 shooting 50% in a Title Run. Shot 62% against Detroit. Had a 4 Game Stretch dropping 31 on 70% shooting against a Top 5 Defense, the only Perimeter Player to ever do that. Wrecks Dallas in the Finals.

2007: 29/5/8 until his injury.

2009: 30/5/8.

2010: /27/5/7. Drops 33/6/7/2/1.5 shooting 56% against the Celtics.

2011: 25/6/5 shooting 50%. 24/7/4 in the Playoffs, 2011 Finals and destroyed Boston.

Yea 2009 is the only year we could use.

[Wade's Rings]

And Wade never averaged 35.4 ppg over a season. Wade never scored 81 pts, 65 pts and 61 pts in a game. Or outscore a team in the first 3 quarters. Wade never won regular season MVP. Kobe has 2 fmvp.

We can do this all day. What is your point? That Wade had a higher peak? That's arguable. But if you want to say that he had a better career, I will laugh in your face.

Nobody ever said Wade has had a better Career but if Wade was healthy than he would. That's the whole purpose of this hypothetical.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Nobody ever said Wade has had a better Career but if Wade was healthy than he would. That's the whole purpose of this hypothetical.

no the whole purpose is to hate on Kobe in your little fantasy scenario where Wade gets magically healed and Kobe doesn't :lol :lol

[Wade's Rings]

Wade has also never averaged 40ppg for a month, twice

he's never scored 50+ in 4 straight games

and lets not forget...

Kobe from 06-07 (2 seasons) had ten more 40+ point game than Wade's had in his entire career :lol :lol

Kobe's never had a stretch of 37/6/11/3/1 for a month.

Kobe's never had 31 on 70% shooting for a stretch of 4 Games.

Kobe's never shot 62% against a Top 5 Defense.

I can literally point to stats Kobe has never had. This is a hypothetical, not reality.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Kobe's never had a stretch of 37/6/11/3/1 for a month.

Kobe's never had 31 on 70% shooting for a stretch of 4 Games.

Kobe's never shot 62% against a Top 5 Defense.

I can literally point to stats Kobe has never had. This is a hypothetical, not reality.

i know

do you really want to get into listing things Kobe's done that Wade hasn't?

[Wade's Rings]

no the whole purpose is to hate on Kobe in your little fantasy scenario where Wade gets magically healed and Kobe doesn't :lol :lol

I don't even hate Kobe you down syndrome clown. I didn't even ask the question.

Seriously for 10 seconds use your brain. If Wade was healthy and won 2005 Finals MVP, 2007 MVP, 2007 Finals MVP, had 2 more seasons equivalent to his 2009 Season he wouldn't be on Kobe's level?

You keep bringing up Kobe's 5 Rings but he would have the same amount as Kobe, 7 Finals Appearances, an MVP, etc.

[24-Inch_Chrome]

I don't think so. It's possible but not likely imo.

[scm5]

Nobody ever said Wade has had a better Career but if Wade was healthy than he would. That's the whole purpose of this hypothetical.

My argument here is that Wade's style of play doesn't allow him to have a healthy career. He might be beastly, but he's still relatively small by NBA standards. He attacks the basket way more than Kobe does, which allows for a higher FG% but at what cost?

Kobe's game is way more geared towards longevity and having a healthy career.

[Wade's Rings]

i know

do you really want to get into listing things Kobe's done that Wade hasn't?

You can waste your time and keep posting numbers. There's stuff Wade has done Kobe hasn't, I don't want to waste my time getting into that.

[scm5]

You can waste your time and keep posting numbers. There's stuff Wade has done Kobe hasn't, I don't want to waste my time getting into that.

http://www.lakersnation.com/dwyane-wade-calls-kobe-bryant-second-best-all-time/2014/07/26/

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

I don't even hate Kobe you down syndrome clown. I didn't even ask the question.

Seriously for 10 seconds use your brain. If Wade was healthy and won 2005 Finals MVP, 2007 MVP, 2007 Finals MVP, had 2 more seasons equivalent to his 2009 Season he wouldn't be on Kobe's level?

You keep bringing up Kobe's 5 Rings but he would have the same amount as Kobe, 7 Finals Appearances, an MVP, etc.
Yeah, but if you want to make Wade's seasons "injury free", then you MUST do the same for Kobe. Its not a realistic comparison otherwise.

Kobe suffered injuries during the following seasons:

2004
2005
2008
2010
2011
2013

2004 and 2005 should've been his peak years, physically.

[Wade's Rings]

My argument here is that Wade's style of play doesn't allow him to have a healthy career. He might be beastly, but he's still relatively small by NBA standards. He attacks the basket way more than Kobe does, which allows for a higher FG% but at what cost?

Kobe's game is way more geared towards longevity and having a healthy career.

I'm fine with that, Kobe has outstanding Longevity. These Kobe Stans saying some dumb sh*t, "Wade's only case is 1 season" "Wade didn't score 81 so he's not better", is mostly why I'm arguing against Kobe.

Wade would've have the better Career IMO because of Accolades that he could've gained.

Without injuries his accolades may look like:
x3 Finals MVP
x5 Rings
x1 MVP
x4 All NBA 1st Team

[TheMarkMadsen]

You can waste your time and keep posting numbers. There's stuff Wade has done Kobe hasn't, I don't want to waste my time getting into that.

yeah YOU REALLY don't

and like other people are saying, if you're going to magically heal Wade and then compare him to Kobe and not give Kobe any special healing powers then it comes off as you just trying to find a way to discredit Kobe

you're taking the premise of the OP seriously, when if you want to have a fair comparison how about you heel Kobe for 6 years he was injured

[Wade's Rings]

Yeah, but if you want to make Wade's seasons "injury free", then you MUST do the same for Kobe. Its not a realistic comparison otherwise.

Kobe suffered injuries during the following seasons:

2004
2005
2008
2010
2011
2013

2004 and 2005 should've been his peak years, physically.

For each of those years can you tell me what happens if Kobe is healthy.

[TheMarkMadsen]

I'm fine with that, Kobe has outstanding Longevity. These Kobe Stans saying some dumb sh*t, "Wade's only case is 1 season" "Wade didn't score 81 so he's not better", is mostly why I'm arguing against Kobe.

Wade would've have the better Career IMO because of Accolades that he could've gained.

Without injuries his accolades may look like:
x3 Finals MVP
x5 Rings
x1 MVP
x4 All NBA 1st Team

should have

if this is how you want to compare players..then ok..but this seems pointless...

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

For each of those years can you tell me what happens if Kobe is healthy.
Truthfully I can't, but we can both agree they were debilitating and hindered his play a great deal.

What I can tell you for sure is that Wade at 100% health vs Kobe at 100% health would've been a lot closer than it is today (from a career standpoint). Kobe's skill, longevity and mental approach give him a nice advantage though.

[blablabla]

:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm
Well tell me when homie, i'll give wade two things better help defense and slashing. Everything else is straight up in bryants favor. The main difference being that kobe was not only effective with the ball, that dude in his prime was often double teamed off the ball, kobe shifted the whole defense and opened up space for his teammates without ever touching the basketball. We saw how great wades playmaking was when lebron came to town and his assists went down while his turnovers went up.

[aj1987]

Well tell me when homie, i'll give wade two things better help defense and slashing. Everything else is straight up in bryants favor. The main difference being that kobe was not only effective with the ball, that dude in his prime was often double teamed off the ball, kobe shifted the whole defense and opened up space for his teammates without ever touching the basketball. We saw how great wades playmaking was when lebron came to town and his assists went down while his turnovers went up.
Well, my bad. I didn't read your post properly. I don't have a problem if you consider Kobe to be a better player throughout their careers. IMO, they're extremely close as far as primes (injury free Wade - healthy '07 and '08 seasons) and peaks go. Again, my bad. I thought you were implying that they weren't even close.

IRL Wade and Kobe? Kobe > Wade. It's pretty obvious. Anyone who ranks Wade over Kobe is a trolling idiot.

[34-24 Footwork]

Holy shit.....this thread went from an "I Kobe Hate Thread" to Wade getting unrentlessly ethered. Wade orchestrated the Chris Bosh/Lebron superteam shit because he was tired of getting his shit caved in after 2006 in the eastern conference.

I tell you, people HATE the fact that Kobe led his team to 2 more championships after Shaq left.


2008 finals loss (w/Gasol)- "Kobe can't win without Shaq. He NEEDS Shaq to win".

2009/2010 Championships- "Pau Gasol/Andrew Bynum are the most dominant big men since Robinson/Duncan". :lol


:lol :lol :lol :lol

Before Kobe won with Gasol on his team, these big men we're CLEARLY better:


Duncan, Garnett, Stoudamire, Dirk, Dwight Howard, Yao, Horford, Bogut (healthy), (2006) Shaq.

Everything above sums up the unfiltered hatred that people have had for Kobe for a decade.

[riseagainst]

Holy shit.....this thread went from an "I Kobe Hate Thread" to Wade getting unrentlessly ethered. Wade orchestrated the Chris Bosh/Lebron superteam shit because he was tired of getting his shit caved in after 2006 in the eastern conference.

I tell you, people HATE the fact that Kobe led his team to 2 more championships after Shaq left.


2008 finals loss (w/Gasol)- "Kobe can't win without Shaq. He NEEDS Shaq to win".

2009/2010 Championships- "Pau Gasol/Andrew Bynum are the most dominant big men since Robinson/Duncan". :lol


:lol :lol :lol :lol

Before Kobe won with Gasol on his team, these big men we're CLEARLY better:


Duncan, Garnett, Stoudamire, Dirk, Dwight Howard, Yao, Horford, Bogut (healthy), (2006) Shaq.

Everything above sums up the unfiltered hatred that people have had for Kobe for a decade.

this.
:lol
dat ether.

[HOoopCityJones]

Yea, Gasol is one thing, but it gets proper cringeworthy when niccas start bringing up Bynum and Odom. :oldlol:

[34-24 Footwork]

Yea, Gasol is one thing, but it gets proper cringeworthy when niccas start bringing up Bynum and Odom.

Wasn't even a prime Odom. Prime Odom played for the Clippers. Similar to how prime Pau Gasol played for the Grizzlies. But who am I kidding? These kids started watching Kobe's career after 2008.

Kobe made it to the finals with Radmonovich in 2008 and won championships with Ariza, Vujecic, Shannon Brown, Luke Walton, DJ Mbenga and etc. :wtf:

Outside of Ariza, where are these guys playing basketball at the moment?

[ArbitraryWater]

Yeah, but if you want to make Wade's seasons "injury free", then you MUST do the same for Kobe. Its not a realistic comparison otherwise.

Kobe suffered injuries during the following seasons:

2004
2005
2008
2010
2011
2013

2004 and 2005 should've been his peak years, physically.

I heard too much about Kobe getting injured during the 2003 playoffs or something, excusing his play.. anything valid on that?


Wasn't even a prime Odom. Prime Odom played for the Clippers. Similar to how prime Pau Gasol played for the Grizzlies. But who am I kidding? These kids started watching Kobe's career after 2008.

Kobe made it to the finals with Radmonovich in 2008 and won championships with Ariza, Vujecic, Shannon Brown, Luke Walton, DJ Mbenga and etc. :wtf:

Outside of Ariza, where are these guys playing basketball at the moment?


2008-2010 Gasol was easily his prime :facepalm
And so was Laker Odom.

Bynum wasn't much of a factor though, at least not until 2010.

[HOoopCityJones]

Well that's not true..but even if it was, Wade's style of play is more hindered with injuries. If he can't fly around the court like a whirling dervish he isn't as effective as he's capable of being. Or even close to it.

I'll agree on the longevity. Kobe's is almost unprecedented, and even if Wade didn't suffer injuries its not likely that he would enjoy the same level. This is why I still think Kobe would be #2, even though I think Wade at his absolute best is just as good of a player.

Kobe went to three straight Finals and won two with broken fingers on his shooting hand and the same knee ailments Wade had during the Heat's championship runs.

If anything Kobe was more banged up, just because those injuries translate better to Kobe's game than Wade's isn't a knock on Kobe. Wade should've learned to do more offensively than drive and flop to the basket and he wouldn't need all of these hypotheticals.

[TheMarkMadsen]

I heard too much about Kobe getting injured during the 2003 playoffs or something, excusing his play.. anything valid on that?




2008-2010 Gasol was easily his prime :facepalm
And so was Laker Odom.

Bynum wasn't much of a factor though, at least not until 2010.

http://articles.latimes.com/2003/jun/06/sports/sp-kobe6


Kobe Bryant is considering surgery after tests showed he has a torn labrum in his right shoulder, Doctors believe Bryant injured his shoulder April 22, in the first quarter of Game 2 of the Lakers playoff series against the Minnesota Timberwolves..He played 10 games with it in the playoffs

and Bynum putting up 9/7 in the 2010 playoffs was cool and all, but yall seem to be confusing regular season bynum and post season bynum

[chazzy]

I heard too much about Kobe getting injured during the 2003 playoffs or something, excusing his play.. anything valid on that?

He tore his labrum on that reverse dunk against the TWolves and had surgery for both that and his knee after the playoffs

[HOoopCityJones]

I heard too much about Kobe getting injured during the 2003 playoffs or something, excusing his play.. anything valid on that?




2008-2010 Gasol was easily his prime :facepalm
And so was Laker Odom.

Bynum wasn't much of a factor though, at least not until 2010.

I love how you tried to reply to his post as if he said Gasol wasn't in his prime when it was mostly focused on Odom. Then you tried to sneak in a "So was Odom" like that wasn't who he was talking about in the first place.

No Odom wasn't in his prime, compare our Odom to the Clippers Odom of the early 00's and they're night and day. Odom was a stud on that Clipper Team and that's why he was a trading piece for years to come until we got him thrown in for Shaq.

And lol @ Bynum being a factor in 2010. 15 and 8 for a Center is atrocious. 8 & 9 in the Post season.

Keep on talking from the ass though, all you do echo sentiments of other posters who fit your Kobe hate agenda and you never actually contribute anything of note to any discussion.

[TheMarkMadsen]

I love how you tried to reply to his post as if he said Gasol wasn't in his prime when it was mostly focused on Odom. Then you tried to sneak in a "So was Odom" like that wasn't ho he was talking about in the first place.

No Odom wasn't in his prime, compare our Odom to the Clippers Odom of the early 00's and they're night and day. Odom was a stud on that Clipper Team and that's why he was a trading piece for years to come until we got him thrown in for Shaq.

And lol @ Bynum being a factor in 2010. 15 and 8 for a Center is atrocious.

Keep on talking from the ass though, all you do echo sentiments of other posters who fit your Kobe hate agenda and you never actually contribute anything of note to any discussion.

Bynum put up 15/8 in the regular season (65 games) which is very good

however, him putting up 9/7 in the playoffs.. is below average

[34-24 Footwork]

2008-2010 Gasol was easily his prime :facepalm
And so was Laker Odom.


You never let facts get in the way of your hatred agenda. :applause: :applause:

[greatest-ever]

That's really all the Wade fans have in their defense. That one season in 2009. But if we are being objective here, Kobe simply had the better career and for most of his career, he was also the better player.

We can talk what if scenarios all day long but it is what it is. Wade was healthy for enough years where we can properly judge him. Sure, at his peak, maybe you can compare him to Kobe. But for an entire career? I don't see how you can. Being the 3rd best SG ever is what Wade was, right behind MJ and Kobe. And that's not bad company.
The whole point of this thread is a hypothetical. Nobody is arguing that Wade had the better career in reality.

If you compare each of Kobe and Wade's 3-4 best seasons, they are very comparable. It wasn't just 09 where Wade was comparable to Prime Kobe.

[derb2k2]

Give me Wade's offensive arsenal and superior defense with blocking ability to Kobe.

Unfortunate that injuries plagued him but we still got to see greatness.:cheers:

[Wade's Rings]

should have

if this is how you want to compare players..then ok..but this seems pointless...

Earlier in this thread you mentioned Kobe's 5 Rings. In the thread "Who would you rather start a team with Kobe, AI, or Wade" you said Kobe has 5 Rings and 7 Finals Appearances in 13 years while Heat Fans use 1 year(2009) to validate Wade. Now I bring up Rings and it's pointless :oldlol:

[scm5]

Duncan, Garnett, Stoudamire, Dirk, Dwight Howard, Yao, Horford, Bogut (healthy), (2006) Shaq.

Everything above sums up the unfiltered hatred that people have had for Kobe for a decade.

You forgot to include Bosh, who was considered by just about everyone to be better than Gasol up until he joined the Lakers

Bosh was putting up:
24/11/2 on 52% before going to Miami

[Wade's Rings]

Holy shit.....this thread went from an "I Kobe Hate Thread" to Wade getting unrentlessly ethered. Wade orchestrated the Chris Bosh/Lebron superteam shit because he was tired of getting his shit caved in after 2006 in the eastern conference

Kobe never made it out of the 1st Round without Shaq or Pau, whose shit was getting caved in :confusedshrug:

[TheMarkMadsen]

Earlier in this thread you mentioned Kobe's 5 Rings. In the thread "Who would you rather start a team with Kobe, AI, or Wade" you said Kobe has 5 Rings and 7 Finals Appearances in 13 years while Heat Fans use 1 year(2009) to validate Wade. Now I bring up Rings and it's pointless :oldlol:

I don't even know what you're trying to say here but ok

Your response had nothing to do with what you quoted from me.

[Wade's Rings]

Kobe went to three straight Finals and won two with broken fingers on his shooting hand and the same knee ailments Wade had during the Heat's championship runs.

If anything Kobe was more banged up, just because those injuries translate better to Kobe's game than Wade's isn't a knock on Kobe. Wade should've learned to do more offensively than drive and flop to the basket and he wouldn't need all of these hypotheticals.

Kobe had a dislocated finger in 2010 not a broken fingern. I didn't realize Kobe Had no Meniscus his whole Career. Wade won in 2006 with Knee and Back Ailments. I could go on listing some injuries but there's no getting to you.


Wade has shot 40+% from Midrange in the Playoffs 5 Times and 4 Times shot above 35% from 3. Of course in your eyes all he can do is drive and flop.

He suffered his Rib Injury in 2005 while taking a jumpshot. Hurt his shoulder in 2007 defending a pass. Has Knee Issues because his meniscus has been removed, but we only have these hypotheticals because Wade can only drive & flop.:lol

[Wade's Rings]

I don't even know what you're trying to say here but ok

Your response had nothing to do with what you quoted from me.

You said we're only using accolades to compare players. However you've constantly used Rings and Finals Appearances to prop up Kobe.

[34-24 Footwork]

You said we're only using accolades to compare players. However you've constantly used Rings and Finals Appearances to prop up Kobe.

Just stop...it's over for you...

(and wade for that matter)

[Hey Yo]

Kobe went to three straight Finals and won two with broken fingers on his shooting hand and the same knee ailments Wade had during the Heat's championship runs.

If anything Kobe was more banged up, just because those injuries translate better to Kobe's game than Wade's isn't a knock on Kobe. Wade should've learned to do more offensively than drive and flop to the basket and he wouldn't need all of these hypotheticals.
allegedly........

[ArbitraryWater]

thanks for that.. damn, why dont we hear more about it?

We all know Kobe came off a stellar season, and was absolutely rocking game 1... that dunk/torn labrum ruined their year.

[Thorn]

thanks for that.. damn, why dont we hear more about it?

We all know Kobe came off a stellar season, and was absolutely rocking game 1... that dunk/torn labrum ruined their year.
Probably because he played through it and didn't miss any games. Had Kobe's season ended in Game 1 of the playoffs with LA trying to defend their title people would be saying "what if?" like with other contenders that lost stars before or during the playoffs (think 09 KG, Rose, etc)

But since he played relatively well it gets swept under the rug.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Probably because he played through it and didn't miss any games. Had Kobe's season ended in Game 1 of the playoffs with LA trying to defend their title people would be saying "what if?" like with other contenders that lost stars before or during the playoffs (think 09 KG, Rose, etc)

But since he played relatively well it gets swept under the rug.

eh his shot was off that entire Spurs series, but outside of Shaq and Kobe the lakers had nothing else to go to

[Optimus Prime]

But he hasn't been healthy. So this thread is pointless.

"What if Spud Webb had Wilt's body with MJ's alpha mentality?"

That's about as useful as this thread.

:kobe:

[Thorn]

eh his shot was off that entire Spurs series, but outside of Shaq and Kobe the lakers had nothing else to go to
Yeah playing vs Bowen and Duncan will do that to you. But it does make you wonder if without the labrum injury if the Lakers could've beaten the Spurs again since that series was even closer than it looked.

I think that series decided the Finals winner..Sacramento lost Webber in Game 2 vs Dallas and Shaq would've killed the Mavs front line. Dallas had a really good offense but I didn't like the matchup vs LA for them.

[tpols]

Kobe never made it out of the 1st Round without Shaq or Pau, whose shit was getting caved in :confusedshrug:

Shaq + pau + west < Shaq + Lebron + east

And yet....

5 > 3.

[Jameerthefear]

Kobe over Wade is preference and okay. West over Wade is so ****ing stupid that anyone who says it should be banned immediately. Do not take CuckFTW's bullshit seriously. He knows JACKSHIT about basketball.

[IllegalD]

Kobe over Wade is preference and okay. West over Wade is so ****ing stupid that anyone who says it should be banned immediately. Do not take CuckFTW's bullshit seriously. He knows JACKSHIT about basketball.

It's not preference you anime-loving homosexual. :facepalm

It's not even close to being arguable.

You're just a butthurt Magic fan who's angry that your franchise will never be anything more than a farm system for the Lakers. :applause:

You probably have nightmares of Kobe taking a shit on you in the 09 finals. :lol

[RRR3]

Kobe's had a better career but Wade would be more fun to hang out with. Better teammate as well.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Kobe's had a better career but Wade would be more fun to hang out with. Better teammate as well.


the shit people say to hate on Kobe :lol :lol

[Jameerthefear]

It's not preference you anime-loving homosexual. :facepalm

It's not even close to being arguable.

You're just a butthurt Magic fan who's angry that your franchise will never be anything more than a farm system for the Lakers. :applause:

You probably have nightmares of Kobe taking a shit on you in the 09 finals. :lol
Man I'm rent free as f*ck because I have not a single clue who the **** you are :oldlol:

[HOoopCityJones]

Kobe's had a better career but Wade would be more fun to hang out with. Better teammate as well.

No real Baller cares about stupid shit like this.

Only at ISH would hang out with factor be a criteria to who's the better player. No wonder most of you think Lebron is Goat.

[IllegalD]

Man I'm rent free as f*ck because I have not a single clue who the **** you are :oldlol:

Was anything I said untrue, though...? :confusedshrug: