I'm a Bulls fan... there are absolutely no excuses for us losing that game

[Jameerthefear]

Or this series. Absolutely no excuses with Irving hobbled, Love out, and Smith being out the first 2 games.

[Taller than CP3]

Pau injured, Taj ejected, Rose playing with one wrist

[Cocaine80s]

One of the few respectable Bulls fans on ISH :applause:

Btw tell Pedo to get his shit together

[oh the horror]

Pau injured, Taj ejected, Rose playing with one wrist



Love is out and Kyrie has been injured too though

[04mzwach]

Pau injured, Taj ejected, Rose playing with one wrist
Noah with the bad knee that shouldn't be playing...

[Cocaine80s]

Pau injured, Taj ejected, Rose playing with one wrist
Oh but i thought the series was fair even though Love is out and JR missed the first 2 games doe?? :oldlol:

[kamil]

Pau injured, Taj ejected, Rose playing with one wrist

If it were for the whole series, I'd agree, but thats not the case. Taj got ejected somehwat late in the game. Pau did play a couple games.

Given the Cavs being hobbled (and bulls too to some extent), this should have bee a sweep.

[Jameerthefear]

Pau injured, Taj ejected, Rose playing with one wrist
No excuses.

[Smoke117]

Pau injured, Taj ejected, Rose playing with one wrist

But...but...the bulls are better without Pau!!!!!!!!

[r15mohd]

Taller than CP3...former Hawks fan, soon to be former Bulls fan, who's next on your choice of losers to cheer for? :lol :lol :lol

[Jameerthefear]

One of the few respectable Bulls fans on ISH :applause:

Btw tell Pedo to get his shit together
Will do man.

[k0kakw0rld]

Pau injured, Taj ejected, Rose playing with one wrist
Pau, Taj & Rose were all healthy the first 3 games of this series. Can't really say the same for Kyrie can we? Oh and what about Kevin Love being out of the playoffs since late 1st round? Oh how about Varejao since the beginning of the season? Jr Smith missed the first two games of the series. YOUR BULLS HAVE NO EXCUSES. EVERY YEAR SAME STORY WITH THIS ROSE LED TEAM. They will always beat LeBron, yet they never do. When are they gonna shut the fvck up and be humble. :confusedshrug:

[tmacattack33]

Pau injured, Taj ejected, Rose playing with one wrist

:roll:

Cleveland's injuries are much more serious and have caused their players to miss more games.

[Allstar24]

Yeah but both teams are equally bad so who cares...I have no doubt whoever wins the WC finals will win the championship.

[iamgine]

When you're playing against Lebron James, there's always a legit excuse.

[Meticode]

Pau injured, Taj ejected, Rose playing with one wrist
LeBron playing on bad left ankle, Irving with back right ankle and tendinitis in the left knee, Iman with a strained groin, James Jones dislocated his finger in the first quarter, Love is out for the season, rookie NBA coach, LeBron shooting under 40% for the series, Irving shooting under 40% for the series both up until this game at least.

Bulls finally have everyone on the court for this series/playoffs and Rose is finally healthy minus that wrist injury in this game. They shouldn't be in this position at all. I'm sorry, Thibs needs to be gone after this season if they don't win the Finals. Make it to the Finals? Sorry, you're gone anyway.

[Kingwillball]

Pau injured, Taj ejected, Rose playing with one wrist


Rose hurt his wrist 5 minutes ago Irving been Hobbled the whole series LOvve out whole series Smith out 2 Games Dwarfs Pau missing 2 games Gibson missing a qtr and Rose hurting his wrist 2nd half of game 5..

[sekachu]

Pau injured, Taj ejected, Rose playing with one wrist




Pau gasol's out is the biggest factor for the bulls. I thought this would be the toughest challenge for lebron since 2010 but things turned over when Gasol is out.

[1~Gibson~1]

According to lebron haters, injuries are no excuse to lose a basketball series. Regardless of the quantity and severity of injury.

Source:
http://insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=375892

[DMAVS41]

Pau injured, Taj ejected, Rose playing with one wrist

Well, hate to break it to you, but Rose was due for a game like that...injury or not.

That's what he does in the playoffs. He shoots like absolute shit every other game it seems.

Series isn't over yet, but the Bulls just aren't beating even East teams with a high usage scoring guard shooting/scoring as poorly as Rose has overall in the playoffs and this series.

I'd get it...if it was out of character or something, but this was a standard Rose playoff game as something like this happens at least once or twice a series it seems. And he has a history of shooting really poorly in key games as well.

[Pointguard]

Well, hate to break it to you, but Rose was due for a game like that...injury or not.

That's what he does in the playoffs. He shoots like absolute shit every other game it seems.

Series isn't over yet, but the Bulls just aren't beating even East teams with a high usage scoring guard shooting/scoring as poorly as Rose has overall in the playoffs and this series.

I'd get it...if it was out of character or something, but this was a standard Rose playoff game as something like this happens at least once or twice a series it seems. And he has a history of shooting really poorly in key games as well. So you are basing this on four year ago - that's your pathetic grasp of judging players??? So if a guy has four years of knee problems. Plays three or four regular season games - he is supposed to be 100% for the playoffs. Do you think Westbrook, Curry, Durant and Harden are the same players 4 years ago? I won't call you a hater on this one. Just profoundly stupid. You are just as ignorant as you were 4 years ago. There is no evolution in your thinking cap. Just dead air.

Rose who has never regained his favorite shot or his favorite move because of three year fight with his knees. Amazingly you lack the ability to see this??? And its totally because your disease clouds your judgment. When you thought Chicago was going to win a couple of games back you were trying to be friendly and nice. But a snake is a snake. You can't help yourself. You have no concept of age, progress or different realities. Rose is not 22 anymore, he is not healthy, he can't do the things he likes to do the most. And you are still using that criteria in your judgment. What is wrong with you? You are seriously ill.

[Alan Ogg]

Noah needs to grab rebounds that are clearly his instead of volleyballing them out for grabs.

[DMAVS41]

So you are basing this on four year ago - that's your pathetic grasp of judging players??? So if a guy has four years of knee problems. Plays three or four regular season games - he is supposed to be 100% for the playoffs. Do you think Westbrook, Curry, Durant and Harden are the same players 4 years ago? I won't call you a hater on this one. Just profoundly stupid. You are just as ignorant as you were 4 years ago. There is no evolution in your thinking cap. Just dead air.

Rose who has never regained his favorite shot or his favorite move because of three year fight with his knees. Amazingly you lack the ability to see this??? And its totally because your disease clouds your judgment. When you thought Chicago was going to win a couple of games back you were trying to be friendly and nice. But a snake is a snake. You can't help yourself. You have no concept of age, progress or different realities. Rose is not 22 anymore, he is not healthy, he can't do the things he likes to do the most. And you are still using that criteria in your judgment. What is wrong with you? You are seriously ill.

He's been a poor shooter in the playoffs for his career. At his peak he had games like this... And continues to have games like this.

I base it off what he's actually done to date on the biggest and most important games of his career.

He's a very good player that really struggles to score efficiently enough to warrant his usage and attempts.

You, on the other hand, don't look at reality and say scoring efficiency doesn't matter. Yes, if Rose had shot 14-24... It wouldn't have impacted the game.:face-palm

He's a sub 50% TS player for his career in the playoffs and that is where he's at again. You can't just give guys credit for improving until they actually improve. Have to actually prove shit on the court.

And if the Bulls win this series... I guarantee Rose will have shot better. You are too much of a Stan to think rationally about Rose, but I'm interested in how/why you think scoring efficiency from scorers is a BS metric according to you.

Honestly... You are just a moron I guess. Didn't think so at first, but I guess you are.

Come back to reality please... You'll see Rose has still shot poorly and done nothing of note in the playoffs.

45%TS and wets the bed in a close and winnable swing game of the series and you don't want people to mention it? LOL

[ISHGoat]

He's been a poor shooter in the playoffs for his career. At his peak he had games like this... And continues to have games like this.

I base it off what he's actually done to date on the biggest and most important games of his career.

He's a very good player that really struggles to score efficiently enough to warrant his usage and attempts.

You, on the other hand, don't look at reality and say scoring efficiency doesn't matter. Yes, if Rose had shot 14-24... It wouldn't have impacted the game.:facepalm

So you're telling me rose is a low iq chucker?

TELL ME MORE

[Pointguard]

He's been a poor shooter in the playoffs for his career. At his peak he had games like this... And continues to have games like this.

So you are basing this on 4 years ago when Rose averaged 28ppg and 7 assist over the first two rounds where he was obviously the best player around? Where he barely had one bad game out of 11? This is your criteria. This was his peak. You realize that. Please present your argument. Because I think you don't know what you are talking about at all. He killed those first two rounds so you that really is the only historical precedence we have. Its just you making up dumb lying shat like you always do.



I base it off what he's actually done to date on the biggest and most important games of his career.

Before you are 24 years of age every playoff game is big. He dominated a good seven of them before that age. Your dumb azz isn't the one who decides what is important or not. If Dirk stopped playing in his prime he would be a total garbage player??? You need to wise up quick.


He's a very good player that really struggles to score efficiently enough to warrant his usage and attempts.
Who do you think is calling his number??? The coach is a control freak that doesn't run a lot of offensive plays, cuts, or good spacing. Which hurts in the playoffs. I said it four years ago but the announcers are saying it now. So in about 30 years I suppose you will get it.


You, on the other hand, don't look at reality and say scoring efficiency doesn't matter. Yes, if Rose had shot 14-24... It wouldn't have impacted the game.:face-palm.
Simple question, which is more important - no systematic offensive play that capitalizes on spacing, shooting, cuts... or Rose breaking down the offense? At least one can produce a defensive response.


And if the Bulls win this series... I guarantee Rose will have shot better. You are too much of a Stan to think rationally about Rose, but I'm interested in how/why you think scoring efficiency from scorers is a BS metric according to you.
Why in the world are you looking at Rose from 4 years ago or the one who has played 12 games since being injured for three years in his knees. Once again the Rose standard. He's dominated two series at 22 years of age and even by your standards kept his team in it for a third with NO HELP.
The Rose standard is crazy. Name me one player that has done all of this. Really. You are sick in your head. Deranged by a madness that won't let you see that things change in four years and that not playing for three years with knee injuries affects all athletes on the earth. Especially when you are only a month away from playing shape. Jordan wasn't himself after two years of not playing - WITHOUT INJURY!!!! And he wasn't himself TWO MONTHS LATER! The ROSE STANDARD is crazy.


Dude you need to go to a Rose Detox center. You embarrass yourself week after week here because of your hate precedes your thinking. Rose is a different person than four years ago as is every player. That's common sense. Rose played four regular season games before this. If you think that is enough to be top notch I can't help you. But I think in general that you know you are incorrigible. That the Rose standard you have created in your head is for a super human, not a regular human... .

Its obvious to everybody that he's not healed. Except YOU.

[DMAVS41]

He's done nothing of note in his playoff career. I'm sorry if you don't like it.

Beating 3 teams that wouldn't even make the playoffs in a real conference is not noteworthy.

He's been inefficient his entire playoff career... So I have no idea where you are coming from.


Will he play/shoot better in the future? Have no idea, but to date...all he's done is shoot poorly and beat a couple poor teams.

And like I said above. If the Bulls do win this series... Rose will shoot far better the next 2 games. Scoring efficiency really matters.... Sorry you don't like that.

And what? He kept his team in it against the Heat? LOL... He was horrendous. His team kept Rose in it... And he choked horribly.

Wake the **** up!

[ISHGoat]

So you are basing this on 4 years ago when Rose averaged 28ppg and 7 assist over the first two rounds where he was obviously the best player around? Where he barely had one bad game out of 11? This is your criteria. This was his peak. You realize that. Please present your argument. Because I think you don't know what you are talking about at all. He killed those first two rounds so you that really is the only historical precedence we have. Its just you making up dumb lying shat like you always do.



Before you are 24 years of age every playoff game is big. He dominated a good seven of them before that age. Your dumb azz isn't the one who decides what is important or not. If Dirk stopped playing in his prime he would be a total garbage player??? You need to wise up quick.

Who do you think is calling his number??? The coach is a control freak that doesn't run a lot of offensive plays, cuts, or good spacing. Which hurts in the playoffs. I said it four years ago but the announcers are saying it now. So in about 30 years I suppose you will get it.

Simple question, which is more important - no systematic offensive play that capitalizes on spacing, shooting, cuts... or Rose breaking down the offense? At least one can produce a defensive response.

Why in the world are you looking at Rose from 4 years ago or the one who has played 12 games since being injured for three years in his knees. Once again the Rose standard. He's dominated two series at 22 years of age and even by your standards kept his team in it for a third with NO HELP.
The Rose standard is crazy. Name me one player that has done all of this. Really. You are sick in your head. Deranged by a madness that won't let you see that things change in four years and that not playing for three years with knee injuries affects all athletes on the earth. Especially when you are only a month away from playing shape. Jordan wasn't himself after two years of not playing - WITHOUT INJURY!!!! And he wasn't himself TWO MONTHS LATER! The ROSE STANDARD is crazy.


Dude you need to go to a Rose Detox center. You embarrass yourself week after week here because of your hate precedes your thinking. Rose is a different person than four years ago as is every player. That's common sense. Rose played four regular season games before this. If you think that is enough to be top notch I can't help you. But I think in general that you know you are incorrigible. That the Rose standard you have created in your head is for a super human, not a regular human... .

Its obvious to everybody that he's not healed. Except YOU.


why do you keep bringing up the rose from 4 years ago? the argument is that rose is shooting with very poor efficiency TODAY.

if your argument is that "he just came from a 3 year hiatus" then my rebuttal is "why is he shooting so much then?"

[Pointguard]

why do you keep bringing up the rose from 4 years ago? the argument is that rose is shooting with very poor efficiency TODAY.

if your argument is that "he just came from a 3 year hiatus" then my rebuttal is "why is he shooting so much then?"
4 years ago is the reference point of Dmavs.

[scm5]

Pretty sure the Bulls got this series.

It took Taj getting ejected and a monster of a game by Lebron to win that game.

Will that happen for two more games? You've gotta assume Pau's gonna man up and play at least 20 minutes since the Bulls are facing elimination.

[nathanjizzle]

He's done nothing of note in his playoff career. I'm sorry if you don't like it.

Beating 3 teams that wouldn't even make the playoffs in a real conference is not noteworthy.

He's been inefficient his entire playoff career... So I have no idea where you are coming from.


Will he play/shoot better in the future? Have no idea, but to date...all he's done is shoot poorly and beat a couple poor teams.

And like I said above. If the Bulls do win this series... Rose will shoot far better the next 2 games. Scoring efficiency really matters.... Sorry you don't like that.

And what? He kept his team in it against the Heat? LOL... He was horrendous. His team kept Rose in it... And he choked horribly.

Wake the **** up!

"using winning rounds as an accomplishment is stupid" didnt you say something along these lines? now youre trying to detract from rose because he hasnt went to the finals in 4 post seasons? he ****ing averaged 27 points (45%)and 7 assists against the first seed cavs in 2009. nothing notable because it isnt a championship right?. He also tied the record for most points scored by a rookie in a playoff debut, against the first seed celtics in 08. Hes averaged 24 points and 7 assists in the post season. Dirks is 25 points and 2.5 assissts. dirk hasnt done anything notable in the 13 out of 14 post seasons right?

btw, that record by rookie derrick rose is "notable" its noted in the record books next to abdul jabbar. :roll:
and btw, didnt your dumbass just get done with a debate with kblaze about how if chrispaul comes out and plays great than hes a great player, and it doesnt matter if he wins the rounds or not. dumbass hypocrite.

[DMAVS41]

why do you keep bringing up the rose from 4 years ago? the argument is that rose is shooting with very poor efficiency TODAY.

if your argument is that "he just came from a 3 year hiatus" then my rebuttal is "why is he shooting so much then?"

Because he can only play one way. If he's not dominating the ball and shooting a lot. He's not really worth much.

Problem is... He hasn't been close to efficient enough to dominate the ball and shoot this much on a team that beats quality teams in the playoffs.

Who knows what will happen, but his play so far hasn't been close to good enough in the playoffs to lead a team.

[Pointguard]

He's done nothing of note in his playoff career. I'm sorry if you don't like it.

He has a playoff record.


Beating 3 teams that wouldn't even make the playoffs in a real conference is not noteworthy.
Dirk lost to a 8th seed, the worst defensive team in the playoffs and his 67 win team didn't even have a response. Am I right??? So don't tell me about winning series is an automatic. Hell that sucky team had Dirk shooting less than 20% one game.


He's been inefficient his entire playoff career... So I have no idea where you are coming from.
Rose shot 49% in his first playoff against one of the best defensive teams in the league. That's great for a point guard. He had shooters then. What's your next excuse. You have to start winning one argument you bring up. But I give it to you, you don't get embarrassed for being a total failure.

[DMAVS41]

The 07 Warriors are way better than any team Rose has beaten in the playoffs to date.

Also, stop bringing up Dirk... Not relevant and he's actually played well in the playoffs for his career. Not a good comparison.

[nathanjizzle]

dirk in 14 post seasons has 1 championship and 7 first round exits :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

common and this guy is talking.

[DMAVS41]

He has a playoff record.

Dirk lost to a 8th seed, the worst defensive team in the playoffs and his 67 win team didn't even have a response. Am I right??? So don't tell me about winning series is an automatic. Hell that sucky team had Dirk shooting less than 20% one game.

Rose shot 49% in his first playoff against one of the best defensive teams in the league. That's great for a point guard. He had shooters then. What's your next excuse. You have to start winning one argument you bring up. But I give it to you, you don't get embarrassed for being a total failure.

52.7% TS isn't actually that efficient... Hate to break it to you.

[nathanjizzle]

The 07 Warriors are way better than any team Rose has beaten in the playoffs to date.

Also, stop bringing up Dirk... Not relevant and he's actually played well in the playoffs for his career. Not a good comparison.

7 first round exits out of 14 seasons is playing well.

[ArbitraryWater]

so now Taj being out for a quarter were they were down 10 and made their comeback without him is supposed to mean shit?

Rose is playing his best basketball of the season, he's fine.

Just admit Cavs would sweep with Love and Kyrie.

[Pointguard]

Because he can only play one way... inefficient.
Rose played totally different under both coaches. But you don't watch the games. It took 7 foot Dirk 9 years to equal the shoot the shooting percentage of what Rose did in the second year.. That's pathetic.

You don't mind being humiliated

[ArbitraryWater]

4 years ago is the reference point of Dmavs.

Well, he's barely played since, and his efficiency was disgustingly low this year.. so what the **** are you talking about.

[Pointguard]

52.7% TS isn't actually that efficient... Hate to break it to you.
TS% isn't a point guard stat of note. FG% is more important.

[DMAVS41]

Rose played totally different under both coaches. But you don't watch the games. It took 7 foot Dirk 9 years to equal the shoot the shooting percentage of what Rose did in the second year.. That's pathetic.

You don't mind being humiliated

You can't be this dumb.., go back to the 1960s you ****ing moron.

[nathanjizzle]

its easy to be efficient when you are a 2 trick pony and dont control the offense, shooting threes and a step back in the post. rose is a dynamic scorer that has to control the offense, such is the same as all point guards, whom dont have that edge in efficiency because of so.

[DMAVS41]

TS% isn't a point guard stat of note. FG% is more important.
:roll: :roll: :roll:

[nathanjizzle]

You can't be this dumb.., go back to the 1960s you ****ing moron.

7-14 first round exits. efficient basketball.:roll:

[Pointguard]

Well, he's barely played since, and his efficiency was disgustingly low this year.. so what the **** are you talking about.
News flash He played with a messed up Meniscus this year. "what the **** are you talking about." Did you not know??? Show me another player that was killer with a messed up meniscus? Another person for the Rose Standard.

[nathanjizzle]

:roll: :roll: :roll:

25 points and 2.5 assists vs 24 points and 7.5 assistt. :roll: :roll: nothing notable.

[DMAVS41]

7 first round exits out of 14 seasons is playing well.

It has nothing to do with winning or losing... I'm talking about how players play.

Did I go hard on Rose in game 4 for losing? Nope...why? Because he played great.

The fact you can't figure it out isn't my fault.

[nathanjizzle]

dirk has had 7 first round exits

great leader.

[nathanjizzle]

It has nothing to do with winning or losing... I'm talking about how players play.

Did I go hard on Rose in game 4 for losing? Nope...why? Because he played great.

The fact you can't figure it out isn't my fault.

rose has played great in the majority of his playoff games, no need to be a ****** about it.

[Pointguard]

:roll: :roll: :roll:
Prove me wrong. You are a complete idiot with TS% its least important to point guards. And not that important to great players overall.

[nathanjizzle]

It has nothing to do with winning or losing... I'm talking about how players play.


stay consistent with what you say? you said rose has done nothing notable in the playoffs? so winning and losing does matter? because if you are not talking about winning or losing, then you have no ****ing point, because rose has played like a superstar for most of his playoff career. idiot.

[nathanjizzle]

7 first round exits out of 14 post seasons people!!!!!

Now thats something to note!!!!

[DMAVS41]

rose has played great in the majority of his playoff games, no need to be a ****** about it.

No he hasn't... He's been a terrible playoff performer to date.

Especially in big games.

[DMAVS41]

stay consistent with what you say? you said rose has done nothing notable in the playoffs? so winning and losing does matter? because if you are not talking about winning or losing, then you have no ****ing point, because rose has played like a superstar for most of his playoff career. idiot.
Just no.

[nathanjizzle]

No he hasn't... He's been a terrible playoff performer to date.

Especially in big games.

because of efficiency?:roll: your dumbass still dont understand efficiency isnt comparable between positions and play type. rose controls the offense, dirk doesnt, you cant compare efficiency idiot. Yeah that game 4 where you think rose played great, he shot 47 percent, would him missing 1 or 2 shots bringing him down to 42 percent make him a terrible performer now? :roll: :roll:

idiot. what makes a leader a terrible playoff leader is when he leads his team to 50 percent in first round exits.

[nathanjizzle]

Just no.

please, rose is averaging 24 points and 7.5 assists in the post season, vs's dirk who is 25 points and 2.5 assists. huge difference though? :roll: :roll:

Just no. ****ing idiot.

[DMAVS41]

because of efficiency?:roll: your dumbass still dont understand efficiency isnt comparable between positions and play type. rose controls the offense, dirk doesnt, you cant compare efficiency idiot. Yeah that game 4 where you think rose played great, he shot 47 percent, would him missing 1 or 2 shots bringing him down to 42 percent make him a terrible performer now? :roll: :roll:

idiot. what makes a leader a terrible playoff leader is when he leads his team to 50 percent in first round exits.

So don't mince words.

You think Rose is a better player and playoff player than Dirk...Yes or No?

[nathanjizzle]

first Round Exits 7 Out Of 14 Post Seasons, And Dmavs Wants To Talk About Efficiency Difference Of 3% Between A Offensive Controller And A Role Player

[nathanjizzle]

So don't mince words.

You think Rose is a better player and playoff player than Dirk...Yes or No?

NO I DONT IDIOT, IS INCOMPARABLE. BUT YOU AHVE THE BALLS TO SAY ROSE HAS BEEN TERRIBLE IN THE POST SEASON WHEN HE HAS ARGUABLY THE SAME STATS AND IMPACT IF NOT BETTER THAN DIRK. BUT YOU THINK DIRK HAS BEEN GREAT IN HIS PLAYOFF CAREER? 7 FIRST ROUND EXITS IDIOT :roll: :roll: :roll:

[Droid101]

Ruined.

[nathanjizzle]

27 Points And 7 Assists Against The First Seed Cavaliers In 09 Is Playing Terrible Guys. Acording to DRETARD41

[DMAVS41]

NO I DONT IDIOT, IS INCOMPARABLE. BUT YOU AHVE THE BALLS TO SAY ROSE HAS BEEN TERRIBLE IN THE POST SEASON WHEN HE HAS ARGUABLY THE SAME STATS AND IMPACT IF NOT BETTER THAN DIRK. BUT YOU THINK DIRK HAS BEEN GREAT IN HIS PLAYOFF CAREER? 7 FIRST ROUND EXITS IDIOT :roll: :roll: :roll:

Find anyone that isn't you who thinks Dirk wasn't a great playoff player in his prime from 02 through 12.

If Dirk wasn't great... Then like 5 guys in NBA history have been great.

[ISHGoat]

because of efficiency?:roll: your dumbass still dont understand efficiency isnt comparable between positions and play type. rose controls the offense, dirk doesnt, you cant compare efficiency idiot. Yeah that game 4 where you think rose played great, he shot 47 percent, would him missing 1 or 2 shots bringing him down to 42 percent make him a terrible performer now? :roll: :roll:

idiot. what makes a leader a terrible playoff leader is when he leads his team to 50 percent in first round exits.

actually in that game a difference of 5% for drose is an extra bucket, and they lost by 2.

[DMAVS41]

27 Points And 7 Assists Against The First Seed Cavaliers In 09 Is Playing Terrible Guys. Acording to DRETARD41

I never said he didn't ever have a good series. I said overall he's been terrible for a player held to superstar standards.

[nathanjizzle]

Find anyone that isn't you who thinks Dirk wasn't a great playoff player in his prime from 02 through 12.

If Dirk wasn't great... Then like 5 guys in NBA history have been great.

im not saying he wasnt, but you saying hes great and saying rose is terrible, when they have arguably the same stats doesnt make sense. does your dumbass understand that now???

[DMAVS41]

im not saying he wasnt, but you saying hes great and saying rose is terrible, when they have arguably the same stats doesnt make sense. does your dumbass understand that now???

They don't have close to the same stats actually.

Here is what a quick look at their stats would actually look like in reality...and even then I don't think it does it justice because Dirk's off ball impact trumps Rose's game controlling ability hugely in my opinion. I don't think Rose is a great game manager or has high bball iq. I don't think he's an excellent passer that find teammates in their sweet spots as often as the best points do. He's a good, but not great/elite pick and roll player. He is fearless, I gladly give him that. But I don't think any of those harder to define qualities trump what Dirk's presence does to a defense without the ball. Having a 7 footer as versatile as prime Dirk was setting screens and forcing teams into impossible situations routinely off the ball is one of the most rare qualities in NBA history offensively.

Anyway...here is what their stats look like for prime Dirk vs Rose to date in the playoffs:

Dirk
26/10/3 on 47/39/89 splits...50%efg...58% TS...118 ortg...107 drtg...205 ws/48....24.9 PER


Rose
24/5/7 on 42/29/84 splits...45%efg...50%TS...103 ortg...107 drtg....099 ws/48...18.9 PER



Now, whether you think any of the stats matter is one thing, but those aren't similar stat line at all. An 8% gap in scoring efficiency is huge. A 6 gap in PER is huge. A 15 difference in ortg is huge.

There is just no way someone with any basketball intelligence would claim that Rose and Dirk have nearly identical stats in the playoffs. It's a joke to say that...simple as that.

Again, I'm no projecting anything. I simply going off what we've seen out of Rose to date. And any scoring guard held to superstar standards is going to get heavy criticism if they have a career sub 50% TS and a history of playing horribly when they play a real team (honestly not sure if this Cavs team is a real team with how hobbled they've been and with how crappy Lebron was until the last game). Whether you Rose and East fans like it or not...talking about first round exits when comparing East vs West can't be done.

The 07 Warriors, for example, are a far better team than Rose has beaten in the playoffs. It shouldn't even have to be mentioned.

Not that it needs much explaining, but lets take a look at how Dirk played in those 5 exits during his prime.(2 of the 7 were the last 2 years with Dirk clearly not in his prime)

04 - 27/12/1 56% TS...125 ortg...98 drtg...27.5 PER (Mavs lost in 5 to a much better Kings team...you see...when your star brings it and you still get slapped around...it's usually more a flaw of the team...Was Dirk perfect? Of course not, but there is a difference in playing like that and losing...and playing like crap like Dirk did in 07)

07 - 20/11/2 51% TS...111 ortg....109 drtg...20.9 PER (Horrid series for Dirk...not as bad as is remembered, but really really really bad)(However, not nearly as bad as Rose in the 11 ECF and not nearly as bad as Rose has been so far in this series against the Cavs)(Rose so far in this series...23/7/6 45% TS....104 ortg...113 drtg)

08 - 27/12/4 59% TS...124 ortg....115 drtg....26.3 PER (Lost to a really good Hornets team...Dirk got no help...still managed to play great)

10 - 27/8/3 64% TS....130 ortg....105 drtg...28.3 PER (Lost to the Spurs)

12 - 27/6/2 56% TS....111 ortg....113 drtg....22.5 PER (Lost to the Thunder)

Notice how Dirk pretty much always managed to play really well to great in these first round exits you speak of outside of 07? You make it sound like he was out there pulling a Rose and playing awful. Not the case. He had to play real teams in the first round and was saddled with some real shit help for a lot of those series. The reason why I say it matters how players play...is because sometimes playing great isn't enough to win. Which is why you won't see me go hard on a guy about not winning if they play great.

But if said player shoots 7 of 24...scores 16 points...and gets lit on defense in a huge game. Yea, it's worth a mention. It's always worth a mention when talking about how a player plays the damn game.

You can't make these "first round" arguments because Rose sure as hell doesn't get out of the first round in the West this year...and probably only gets to round 2 in 11. The conferences are just so different that it's silly to compare that crap. People do it with Lebron talking about his first round record or reaching the finals a certain number of times...great, but it came in a joke conference...where it was infinitely easier. That 07 Cavs team is probably first or 2nd round fodder in the West in 07...it doesn't make them better because they played cream puffs in the East.

Like I said earlier. Not one of the teams Rose has beaten in the playoffs to date would have qualified in the West that year for the playoffs. Now, I don't care about that...I care how players play, but if you are going to make the shitty "advanced beyond the first round argument"...be ready to have the facts thrown back in your face.

Rose's playoff play to date has been poor for any superstar standards...it's just the truth. Jesus...I couldn't even imagine the shit CP3 would get if he played like Rose did in the playoffs year in year out. CP3 takes shit and he routinely plays great....just different standards. And usually that is how you know how good a player is...if a player can just play like complete shit and his fans/media really don't mention it. He's more of a story...not a lot of substance there. That is how I few Rose to date...just not much substance in the games that matter the most so far in his career.

Now, the potential is there to fix some of his flaws and get healthier and learn to play playoff basketball. He might do it in this series, but from what I've seen up through game 5 of this series for his career in the playoffs...he's going to have to play a whole lot better to ever lead a team anywhere...even in the joke East.