Are Derrick Rose and Dwight Howard "2nd Tier" players now?

[Tarik One]

Do you place them on the same level among the likes of Klay Thompson, Mike Conley, Al Horford, and LeMarcus Aldridge - all arguably considered 2nd tier guys - at this point of their careers?

[nathanjizzle]

are you stupid?

[ISHGoat]

There is no way Derrick rose is 2nd tier. I would take about 30 players in the league over him at this point. In his mvp season, you could argue that he was a tier2 player. Right now, in terms of impact on the game, Derrick "38%" Rose is third tier with dudes like derozan, beal, Jeff Teague, draymond green, etc, which is absolutely no insult to Drose. To still be a top 50 player in the league after not playing for 3 seasons and multiple knee surgeries is seriously admirable.

Jimmy butler is the tier2 player on the Bulls. He should be 2nd team all NBA

[Real Men Wear Green]

Rose has a small case for still being great because of how well he plays when well-rested. The problem is how his play falls off when he only gets one day. (I'm quoting various TV programs and in-game stats that I don't feel like linking to but assume many of you have seen.) A great player is consistent. He has at least given reason for optimism that he will return to being the level of player that he once was with another offseason of rest and rehab.

Howard on the other hand just isn't going to be offensively dominant ever again. We've seen enough. He had a high level of offensive impact in Orlando for a few seasons but his game is 100% athleticism and size. Injuries are draining away the athleticism and that's not going to improve with age. And he won't be the featured scorer so long as Harden is doing his thing. He's Alonzo Mourning with a smile. Nothing to be ashamed of but there's a good argument that he's not the top center in the weakest center era in a long time.

[AintNoSunshine]

are you stupid?

Are you stupid?

The answer to OPs question is yes unfortunately.

[nathanjizzle]

Are you stupid?

The answer to OPs question is yes unfortunately.

Are you stupid?
heres rose post season compared to a teir 1 and teir 2 pg

rose 21 points 6.5 assists
paul 21 points 8 assists
conley 15 points 5.5 assists.


again, are you stupid?

[yobore]

Are you stupid?
heres rose post season compared to a teir 1 and teir 2 pg

rose 21 points 6.5 assists
paul 21 points 8 assists
conley 15 points 5.5 assists.


again, are you stupid?
PER
Rose- 17.0
Conley- 18.6
Paul- 25.3

[ISHGoat]

PER
Rose- 17.0
Conley- 18.6
Paul- 25.3

in b4 you get bashed for citing only PER, basically all the other advanced metrics agree with this too

[HylianNightmare]

Both still tier 1

[ISHGoat]

Both still tier 1

howard tier 1, rose tier 3

cos you know, defense

[HylianNightmare]

howard tier 1, rose tier 3

cos you know, defense
What tier do you have Irving in?

[ISHGoat]

What tier do you have Irving in?

If were going to go by

tier 1: 5 players (aka all nba 1st team)
tier 2: 10 players (aka all nba 2nd/3rd team)
tier 3: 20

then irving is 2nd tier.

my tiers would look like:

t1: cp3, curry, harden, lebron, dwight (arguable)
t2: westbrook, irving, butler, wall, blake, lma, both gasols, etc
t3: lowry, derozan, bledsoe, rose, etc

[TheMilkyBarKid]

Are you stupid?
heres rose post season compared to a teir 1 and teir 2 pg

rose 21 points 6.5 assists
paul 21 points 8 assists
conley 15 points 5.5 assists.


again, are you stupid?
rose has been impressive so far this offseason and I'm happy for him and bulls fans, but don't try and say he belongs in Chris Paul's tier

[nathanjizzle]

rose has been impressive so far this offseason and I'm happy for him and bulls fans, but don't try and say he belongs in Chris Paul's tier

am i suppose to be thankful that you are happy for rose? rose and chris are in the same class. hes scored 30 plus points against the cavs twice and hes suppose to be a 2nd teir pg? nonsense.

[LoneyROY7]

Are you stupid?
heres rose post season compared to a teir 1 and teir 2 pg

rose 21 points 6.5 assists
paul 21 points 8 assists
conley 15 points 5.5 assists.


again, are you stupid?

Rose averaging 21 ppg and 6.5 assists on 39.3 percent shooting.

Paul averaging 21 ppg and 8.4 assists on 50.7 percent shooting.

:roll:

[Yoshi]

Do you place them on the same level among the likes of Klay Thompson, Mike Conley, Al Horford, and LeMarcus Aldridge - all arguably considered 2nd tier guys - at this point of their careers?

Yes, Rose and Howard are on the same level as the guys listed.

[HylianNightmare]

If were going to go by

tier 1: 5 players (aka all nba 1st team)
tier 2: 10 players (aka all nba 2nd/3rd team)
tier 3: 20

then irving is 2nd tier.

my tiers would look like:

t1: cp3, curry, harden, lebron, dwight (arguable)
t2: westbrook, irving, butler, wall, blake, lma, both gasols, etc
t3: lowry, derozan, bledsoe, rose, etc


I think rose has looked good enough offensively to be tier 2 AT WORST but I the man hasn't been afraid on offensive end and has played good enough defense on Irving to be tier 1 for me.

[Yoshi]

If were going to go by

tier 1: 5 players (aka all nba 1st team)
tier 2: 10 players (aka all nba 2nd/3rd team)
tier 3: 20

then irving is 2nd tier.

my tiers would look like:

t1: cp3, curry, harden, lebron, dwight (arguable)
t2: westbrook, irving, butler, wall, blake, lma, both gasols, etc
t3: lowry, derozan, bledsoe, rose, etc

That makes Dwight 2 tiers above Rose. :biggums:

[TheMan]

I remember when ISH was proclaiming Chris Paul as finished two years ago when he was coming off his knee injury. It took him a couple of seasons to regain his form :facepalm

Right now Rose has no argument for top 10 but he's still young, if he doesn't have anymore knee issues (which is entirely possible, along with having knee issues) then I don't see why he can't get close to his MVP form.

I'll wait until he plays a full season before making a call.

[JZ600]

am i suppose to be thankful that you are happy for rose? rose and chris are in the same class. hes scored 30 plus points against the cavs twice and hes suppose to be a 2nd teir pg? nonsense.
Does this kid even watch basketball jesus christ ish

[yobore]

I remember when ISH was proclaiming Chris Paul as finished two years ago when he was coming off his knee injury. It took him a couple of seasons to regain his form :facepalm

Right now Rose has no argument for top 10 but he's still young, if he doesn't have anymore knee issues (which is entirely possible, along with having knee issues) then I don't see why he can't get close to his MVP form.

I'll wait until he plays a full season before making a call.
Paul took a couple seasons to turn his game into an old man's game based around the perimeter rather than the lane, but he was still extremely effective during the transition. Rose has completely missed a couple seasons and while his athleticism doesn't seem to be permanently diminished, at 26 it's likely to diminish some soon and he still doesn't have the old man skills which I'm not sure he'll ever get. I'm not optimistic on him recovering MVP form, but he has really surprised me in these playoffs so I won't rule it out.

[Pointguard]

That makes Dwight 2 tiers above Rose. :biggums:
Total lack of basketball knowledge.

[Pointguard]

Do you place them on the same level among the likes of Klay Thompson, Mike Conley, Al Horford, and LeMarcus Aldridge - all arguably considered 2nd tier guys - at this point of their careers?

Rose basically won 4 games this off season on his back.
Thats about equal to that whole crew above. You and Ishgoat are both top tier trolls that dont know the game, tho.

[ISHGoat]

Rose basically won 4 games this off season on his back.
Thats about equal to that whole crew above. You and Ishgoat are both top tier trolls that dont know the game, tho.

Maybe if rose doesnt shoot 35% there is no need for buzzer beating heroics? You cant say he won the games by himself when he's part of the reason that the bulls are in a hole in the first place.

And also, rose turns the ball over a ton and doesnt play defense, delly been lighting him up

Dwight plays defense and can get you buckets at an efficient rate in the paint

[KembaWalker]

Maybe if rose doesnt shoot 35% there is no need for buzzer beating heroics? You cant say he won the games by himself when he's part of the reason that the bulls are in a hole in the first place.

And also, rose turns the ball over a ton and doesnt play defense, delly been lighting him up

Dwight plays defense and can get you buckets at an efficient rate in the paint

ISH, where averaging 6.2ppg in a series is considered lighting up on a player :roll:

[Pointguard]

ISH, where averaging 6.2ppg in a series is considered lighting up on a player :roll:
I think this is seriously missing some marbles. Rose doesn't have his wind yet. And this guy is taking it like its a seriously grave matter.

[Heavincent]

Do you place them on the same level among the likes of Klay Thompson, Mike Conley, Al Horford, and LeMarcus Aldridge - all arguably considered 2nd tier guys - at this point of their careers?

All 4 guys you mentioned are better than Rose.

[kshutts1]

I guess you'd have to define tier designations..

But Westbrook, Davis Lebron, Paul, Curry, Griffin, Durant (healthy) are all clearly better than Howard.

Then Howard, Harden, Melo, Marc, Aldridge, Horford, Conley, Irving, Lillard, Butler, Kawhi, George (healthy), Wall are all clearly better than Rose.

And as always, I may have forgotten some players.

[DMAVS41]

Rose basically won 4 games this off season on his back.
Thats about equal to that whole crew above. You and Ishgoat are both top tier trolls that dont know the game, tho.

All 4 of those guys are way better than Rose.

Easy to win playoff games against scrub East teams like the Bucks.

Damn you are an awful Stan...Not one person in the world that knows ball would take Rose currently over Horford, Conley, LMA, or Thompson....just shut up with this crap

[BlakFrankWhite]

first tier:LBJ,KD,AD23,CP3,Curry,Harden,GOATbrook

[Dragonyeuw]

my tiers would look like:

t1: cp3, curry, harden, lebron, dwight (arguable)
t2: westbrook, irving, butler, wall, blake, lma, both gasols, etc
t3: lowry, derozan, bledsoe, rose, etc

- Durant is missing from your tier 1

- Westbrook is clearly tier 1 at this point

-Dwight isn't a tier above the Gasols, so wherever they are he's next to them

[SexSymbol]

Rose has displayed flashes of brilliance in this and previous series. He's not on the low level of howard

[Jameerthefear]

All 4 of those guys are way better than Rose.

Easy to win playoff games against scrub East teams like the Bucks.

Damn you are an awful Stan...Not one person in the world that knows ball would take Rose currently over Horford, Conley, LMA, or Thompson....just shut up with this crap
meh. these are definitely arguable

[Jameerthefear]

both are tier 2ish. maybe tier 3

[Pointguard]

All 4 of those guys are way better than Rose.

Easy to win playoff games against scrub East teams like the Bucks.

Damn you are an awful Stan...Not one person in the world that knows ball would take Rose currently over Horford, Conley, LMA, or Thompson....just shut up with this crap
:lol Its miserable being you. Hating is bad for you dude, you are going to end up in a hospital. Rose when he's had his wind, is much better than them. The Rose standard is judge him when he's hurt. Or that's the Dmavs way of life right. Can't beat em while they healthy, get em while they're hurt. :lol That's what low lives and weaklings do. And you do it every chance you get. Horford is in the East Bozo. LMA??? Really. I like Conley and Thompson but only against a hurt Rose.

[Smoke117]

According to Nathanjizzle averaging 21 points on 20 shots is supposed to be impressive...

:yaohappy:

[ApexPredator]

- Durant is missing from your tier 1

- Westbrook is clearly tier 1 at this point

-Dwight isn't a tier above the Gasols, so wherever they are he's next to them

Dwight is tier 2. There isn't a center in the league currently that is tier 1 among the NBA.

[DMAVS41]

:lol Its miserable being you. Hating is bad for you dude, you are going to end up in a hospital. Rose when he's had his wind, is much better than them. The Rose standard is judge him when he's hurt. Or that's the Dmavs way of life right. Can't beat em while they healthy, get em while they're hurt. :lol That's what low lives and weaklings do. And you do it every chance you get. Horford is in the East Bozo. LMA??? Really. I like Conley and Thompson but only against a hurt Rose.

I'm going off the Rose I'm watching now...not the Rose from 4 years ago. LOL

The Rose now is definitely not as good as any of those 4 players.

Was that not the question?

If it's Rose from 2011 my answer would be different.

How the **** is that hating? I don't think you realize just how little Rose has done to date in his career when the games actually matter. You live in a fantasy land.

[tontoz]

Rose averaging 21 ppg and 6.5 assists on 39.3 percent shooting.

Paul averaging 21 ppg and 8.4 assists on 50.7 percent shooting.

:roll:

Can't imagine why Stanjizzle left out the percentages. :oldlol:

[Pointguard]

I'm going off the Rose I'm watching now...not the Rose from 4 years ago. LOL

The Rose now is definitely not as good as any of those 4 players.

Was that not the question?

If it's Rose from 2011 my answer would be different.

How the **** is that hating? I don't think you realize just how little Rose has done to date in his career when the games actually matter. You live in a fantasy land.
:lol Really LMA wasn't good the last time I saw him and he's the only one that was close to carrying a team. Rose when he had his energy was obviously better than those players this year. But he's compromised and tired. It happens.

[outbreak]

They always were. Tier one is just Durant and Lebron. Tier two is where you found your melos, howard, rose, paul, harden etc
Rose is probably a notch below tier two now as well.

[ThickassGlasses]

:lol Really LMA wasn't good the last time I saw him and he's the only one that was close to carrying a team. Rose when he had his energy was obviously better than those players this year. But he's compromised and tired. It happens.

I don't see how your even trying to argue Rose on a top tier.

Doesn't matter how tired you are, you can't let Dellavedova ball out on you like he's back in college.

Their's only a handful of tier one players and Rose isn't close, right now. If he can get his legs back and play more consistently he MIGHT make a fringe tier one player, and that's a big might.

[NumberSix]

Derrick Rose is not a star player. He's good. That's a about it. A good player. He's about as good as Monta Ellis.

[DMAVS41]

:lol Really LMA wasn't good the last time I saw him and he's the only one that was close to carrying a team. Rose when he had his energy was obviously better than those players this year. But he's compromised and tired. It happens.

Your boy just shit the bed in the 2nd biggest series of his career.

He's now played two meaningful series in his career and hes' been dreadful in both of them.

I go off what I see.

He's absolutely not currently a tier 1 player and absolutely not as good as LMA...you have lost your mind.