Lebron James just passed Kobe Bryant

[kennethgriffin]

in entire career 50+ win teams beatin in the playoffs vs just the 2 years kobe went to the finals and lost


2003-04 San Antonio Spurs Record: 57-25
2003-04 Minnesota Timberwolves Record: 58-24
2007-08 Denver Nuggets Record: 50-32
2007-08 Utah Jazz Record: 54-28
2007-08 San Antonio Spurs Record: 56-26


total = 5 ( 2 years )



2006-07 Detroit Pistons Record: 53-29
2010-11 Boston Celtics Record: 56-26
2010-11 Chicago Bulls Record: 62-20
2012-13 San Antonio Spurs Record: 58-24
2013-14 Indiana Pacers Record: 56-26
2014-15 Chicago Bulls Record: 50-32

total = 6 ( 12 years )



http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-M57puhp-1uo/U9uV2TQXTWI/AAAAAAAAO2c/THThMy9HRvk/s1600/the-clap-o.gif

[Mr. Jabbar]

"earned" :oldlol:

[Straight_Ballin]

Given not earned.

[knicksman]

congrats bran. So proud of my boy

[SouBeachTalents]

congrats bran. So proud of my boy

The Knicks have won one playoff series against this same competition, and haven't beaten a 50 win team in 15 years

[kennethgriffin]

kobe beat the spurs twice on the way to losing 2 finals

to lebron thats woulda been a championship both times

[Imtheman]

I thought you were a Kobe fan?

Do i have to take you off the Kobe army you silly peasant

[knicksman]

The Knicks have won one playoff series against this same competition, and haven't beaten a 50 win team in 15 years

betas arent allowed to talk to me

[ISHGoat]

lebron is also about to pass kobe in fmvps

3/12 > 2/19

[r15mohd]

Curious? Have u ever tallied shaq's...serious question, no dig at bean this time :D

[Joyner82reload]

At first I thought OP was full of shit, particularly leaving off 2012 OKC. Then I remembered it was a strike season and OKC didn't win 50 games. OP is indeed correct, jesus that's pathetic. There have been teams that have beaten 4 50 game winners in 1 playoffs :lol

[Spurs5Rings2014]

kobe beat the spurs twice on the way to losing 2 finals

to lebron thats woulda been a championship both times

Barely with a .4 second shot and stacked squad of 4 HOF'ers including 2 top 10 ATG's.

:roll: :roll: :roll:

Then a stacked front court the other time.

:lol

[knicksman]

lebron is also about to pass kobe in fmvps

3/12 > 2/19

rings>>fmvps. only betas settle for less

[SouBeachTalents]

rings>>fmvps. only betas settle for less

Like no championships in 42 years? Finishing dead last in the league?

[r15mohd]

rings>>fmvps. only betas settle for less

Sooo that means Horry better than Kobe? :rolleyes:

This could only comes from a Knicks fan :facepalm

[kennethgriffin]

Barely with a .4 second shot and stacked squad of 4 HOF'ers including 2 top 10 ATG's.

:roll: :roll: :roll:

Then a stacked front court the other time.

:lol


kobe blasted the spurs with thick dark yellow dehydrated urine almost every time he faced them in the playoffs

and if it wasnt for robert horry shooting literally 0% in the entire series in 2003... his record vs duncan would be 5-1 instead of 4-2

[SouBeachTalents]

kobe blasted the spurs with thick dark yellow dehydrated urine almost every time he faced them in the playoffs

and if it wasnt for robert horry shooting literally 0% in the entire series in 2003... his record vs duncan would be 5-1 instead of 4-2

If his 3 doesn't rim out in Game 5 I think the Lakers take that series, probably 4peat

[kennethgriffin]

Sooo that means Horry better than Kobe? :rolleyes:

This could only comes from a Knicks fan :facepalm


rings with 20+ playoff PPG or 10+ apg count though


the horry excuse is tired...



if duncans 15ppg playoffs ring counted in 2013... then surely kobes 21ppg playoffs ring counted in 2000

and more than surely the 29ppg and 27ppg rings in 2001 and 2002






















seriously though. we gonna have this discussion every day for the next 15 after the last 15 years its been going on

let me know now

:roll:

[kennethgriffin]

If his 3 doesn't rim out in Game 5 I think the Lakers take that series, probably 4peat


its almost as if his 3 in 2002 was voided by his 2003 performance

he helped the lakers win one.. but he absolutely cost the lakers one

so +1 and -1 = 0

horry = nothing in my eyes ... in hindsight

[Nash]

rings with 20+ playoff PPG or 10+ apg count though


the horry excuse is tired...



if duncans 15ppg playoffs ring counted in 2013... then surely kobes 21ppg playoffs ring counted in 2000

and more than surely the 29ppg and 27ppg rings in 2001 and 2002






















seriously though. we gonna have this discussion every day for the next 15 after the last 15 years its been going on

let me know now

:roll:
how about rings with most fmvp's?

[r15mohd]

Curious? Have u ever tallied shaq's...serious question, no dig at bean this time :D

Kenneth!!! :rant

[ImKobe]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DggAXSv53Qc

fakkit

[kennethgriffin]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DggAXSv53Qc

fakkit


:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[aj1987]

The '12 Pacers and Thunder?

And what's with the arbitrary 50 win cutoff?

[kennethgriffin]

The '12 Pacers and Thunder?

played in a fake season?

:confusedshrug:

[HelterSkelter]

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb53/FcukThePolice/11061766_935274569838054_8128655193764592510_n.jpg

[aj1987]

played in a fake season?

:confusedshrug:
Well then. Kobe had a fake career. Carried by Shaq in the first half of his career. Choked his ass off when he left and was a loser till Gasol came along to do more carrying. Dude is beta AF.

[hiphopfan777]

Kobe defeated that boston team 2010 finals. They won 50 games that year. You forgot to add them on your list.

[LEFT4DEAD]

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb53/FcukThePolice/11061766_935274569838054_8128655193764592510_n.jpg
thread/

[TheMarkMadsen]

lebron is also about to pass kobe in fmvps

3/12 > 2/19

what are these numbers? Lebrons field goals for the deciding game?

[ImKobe]

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb53/FcukThePolice/11061766_935274569838054_8128655193764592510_n.jpg

Kobe Bryant as a starter in the handcheck era - 25/6/5 on 46% shooting

post-handchecking and before achilles - 29/6/5 on 45% shooting

lebron in the handcheck era - 21/6/6 on 42% shooting

game, blouses.

[HelterSkelter]

Kobe Bryant as a starter in the handcheck era - 25/6/5 on 46% shooting

post-handchecking and before achilles - 29/6/5 on 45% shooting

lebron in the handcheck era - 21/6/6 on 42% shooting

game, blouses.


Source? Mine's basketball-reference.. you can check it now.. you just have to do a few math for Kobe though.. his 1st and 2nd yr had to be removed.

[kennethgriffin]

thread/


all he did was list regular season stats

how does this trump kobe having to beat 24 teams with 50+ wins to make 7 finals

so just having some nice stats in the regular season entitles you to the same playoff accomplishments ?

:lol


omg yo.. kobe beat dallas ( wcf champs ) 62-61 ... chock him up for a finals appearance in 2006


LOL DERP

[aj1987]

what are these numbers? Lebrons field goals for the deciding game?
You mean elimination games?

Kobe Bryant EG Averages:
22.3 PPG, 5.6 RPG, 3.7 APG, 1.2 SPG, .6 BPG, 3.0 TOPG, 41.4 FG%, 27.5 3P%, 77.9 FT%

LeBron James EG Averages:
31.9 PPG, 10.1 RPG, 6.5 APG, 1.4 SPG, .6 BPG, 4.5 TOPG, 46.5 FG%, 31.4 3P%, 73.8 FT%


CREDIT: WayOfWade.

[HelterSkelter]

all he did was list regular season stats

how does this trump kobe having to beat 24 teams with 50+ wins to make 7 finals

so just having some nice stats in the regular season entitles you to the same playoff accomplishments ?



It wasn't really an answer for your thread. It was just for the "LeBron's inflated stats in the East" myth.


EDIT: I'll start researching about Kobe and LeBron's wins against opposing conferences

[plowking]

Why aren't you counting the teams in lockout season that were 50 win teams given enough games played?

Both Pacers and Thunder are 50 win teams that season. So the total is 8.

[TheMarkMadsen]

You mean elimination games?

Kobe Bryant EG Averages:
22.3 PPG, 5.6 RPG, 3.7 APG, 1.2 SPG, .6 BPG, 3.0 TOPG, 41.4 FG%, 27.5 3P%, 77.9 FT%

LeBron James EG Averages:
31.9 PPG, 10.1 RPG, 6.5 APG, 1.4 SPG, .6 BPG, 4.5 TOPG, 46.5 FG%, 31.4 3P%, 73.8 FT%


CREDIT: WayOfWade.

"elimination games" aka game 7's :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

elimination games are any game that either team is up for elimination, but obviously you morons don't realize that

Kobe sealed the deal for his teams in game 7 during both the 2000/2002 championship runs, putting up 25/11/7 & 30/10/7 respectively, he lost in 06 while putting up 24 on 50% and won his 5th ring in 2010 with 23/15.. those are 4 of his 5 game 7s.. so bad.. :rolleyes: :wtf:

and who are Lebron stans to even bring up effeciency anymore.. without his super-friends Lebron is actually less efficient scoring the ball than Kobe in the playoffs..

[305Baller]

has it really happened yet?

[TheMarkMadsen]

Why aren't you counting the teams in lockout season that were 50 win teams given enough games played?

Both Pacers and Thunder are 50 win teams that season. So the total is 8.

probably because they didn't win 50 games :biggums: :biggums:

if somebody scores 25 points in the opening half should we just give them credit for scoring 50 since they were on pace to do so..

[kennethgriffin]

Why aren't you counting the teams in lockout season that were 50 win teams given enough games played?

Both Pacers and Thunder are 50 win teams that season. So the total is 8.


a) because they werent 50 win teams

2011-12 Oklahoma City Thunder Record: 47-19
2011-12 Indiana Pacers Record: 42-24


b) even if they were... you answered youre own question


Why aren't you counting the teams in lockout season

c) even if these insanely large number of lockout imaginary 50+ win teams counted. thats 2 more theoretical teams for lebron ( 6 up to 8 )... and at the same time kobes goes from 24 up to 25 since you'd have to count the 1998-99 Houston Rockets 1st round victory ( cause who knows.. maybe they win 50 if it was a real season too! :D

so he isnt really gaining much ground either way



and btw... 50+ win assumption teams can lick sweaty ********s as far as i'm concerned

[plowking]

probably because they didn't win 50 games :biggums: :biggums:

if somebody scores 25 points in the opening half should we just give them credit for scoring 50 since they were on pace to do so..

I'll tell you why. Because in both seasons, Kobe didn't win any, hence it would go against the premise of the thread. This one and his original one earlier last year.

Points aren't like games played, and hence win-loss records. You stay on a similar pace of wins/losses after a certain point.

I guess if the NBA cut its seasons down to 66 games, then using this dumbass logic as a requirement of greatness would cut out any future players from greatness. :facepalm

[plowking]

c) even if these insanely large number of lockout imaginary 50+ win teams counted. thats 2 more theoretical teams for lebron ( 6 up to 8 )... and at the same time kobes goes from 24 up to 25 since you'd have to count the 1998-99 Houston Rockets 1st round victory ( cause who knows.. maybe they win 50 if it was a real season too! :D

so he isnt really gaining much ground either way



and btw... 50+ win assumption teams can lick sweaty ********s as far as i'm concerned

It isn't an assumption. Both teams would comfortably get to 50 wins. The whole point of your thread is to show quality of opposition through wins. You can't win as many games if there aren't as many games. Hence the Pacers and Thunder were both better than 50 win teams. That is your whole point after all.

In the Rockets case, they were still essentially a 50 win team, since they were on pace for 50.8. Smaller samples will give you a less accurate estimate, but close enough.

And no, Kobe goes from 23 to 24. Can't count the 96-97 Sonics. Played less than half the series so he is not eligible.

[ace23]

OP what the **** are you measuring? What are the 2 years and 12 years for?

[kennethgriffin]

It isn't an assumption. Both teams would comfortably get to 50 wins.

In the Rockets case, they were still essentially a 50 win team, since they were on pace for 50.8. Smaller samples will give you a less accurate estimate, but close enough.

And no, Kobe goes from 23 to 24. Can't count the 96-97 Sonics. Played less than half the series so he is not eligible.


so we're just gonna roll with "woulda's and maybe's"



heres a woulda/maybe


maybe those teams or lebrons team woulda coulda shoulda had completely different years, injuries, different outcomes. maybe other teams end up against the heat in the playoffs. maybe instead of rose or others being hurt its james. maybe the lakers get a training camp and can work in their new coach better. maybe older teams get more rest instead of having to black back2back2backs every week or so. maybe the spurs get to rest their guys better. maybe the younger more athletic teams and stars arent gifted a finals appearence based on circumstances. maybe the heat shoulda lost to chicago. maybe the real 2012 champs should be someone else. maybe the heat lose in round 1. maybe the lockout switched up the entire timeline of our universe



or how about this.. maybe lockouts shoulda woulda coulda be put in a separate class because theyre a fake season and assumptions can lick n*ts


hey! what if kobe plays the 4th quarter of that 62-61 dallas game... lets gift him another 81+ game... maybe even 91+ ( hes scored 30 in a quarter 3-4 times before )... he was on pace for it... so .... YUP!

kobes new career high is 91!

:bowdown:

:lol

[TheMarkMadsen]

It's no surprise that during the only year Lebron faced any tough competition during the EC playoffs that he broke down in the finals

[livinglegend]

How many times has Kobe taken a team with less than 50 wins to championship? 0
Lebron , how many times? 1

Lebron > Kobe :applause: :applause:

[livinglegend]

probably because they didn't win 50 games :biggums: :biggums:

if somebody scores 25 points in the opening half should we just give them credit for scoring 50 since they were on pace to do so..

How many time has kobe taken a less than 50 wins team to the championship?
Lebron proved that he could take an average less than 50 wins team to championship in 2012. Has Kobe done that?

[kennethgriffin]

OP what the **** are you measuring? What are the 2 years and 12 years for?


before lebron beat the bulls kobe accomplished in 2 losing years what lebron accomplished in his entire career

thats what i'm pointing out

that lebrons 2 rings and 5 nba finals in 12 years were achieved with the same effort/challenge as kobe reaching 2 finals out of the west in 2 years of his life that he didnt even win a title


thats the difference between the east and the west

it would take lebron 50 years to catch up to kobes entire playoff resume

and that not all championships have the same value considering kobe has to beat 4 great teams to win 1 title while lebron can just show up in the finals and get lucky

[kennethgriffin]

How many time has kobe taken a less than 50 wins team to the championship?
Lebron proved that he could take an average less than 50 wins team to championship in 2012. Has Kobe done that?


same number as lebron

since a championship is different than a championship*

[aj1987]

"elimination games" aka game 7's :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

elimination games are any game that either team is up for elimination, but obviously you morons don't realize that

Kobe sealed the deal for his teams in game 7 during both the 2000/2002 championship runs, putting up 25/11/7 & 30/10/7 respectively, he lost in 06 while putting up 24 on 50% and won his 5th ring in 2010 with 23/15.. those are 4 of his 5 game 7s.. so bad..
How are you Chuckbe stans still breathing? You guys are retarded beyond belief. :facepalm

Elimination Game Stats

[plowking]

It's no surprise that during the only year Lebron faced any tough competition during the EC playoffs that he broke down in the finals

Can you explain why it is no surprise, since he is one of the most durable players, or are you just saying random shit for the hell of it?

What exactly is Kobe's hardest run in a finals MVP season?

2009 plays an injured Utah team missing their second best player, and their 3rd best player injured. Then plays a Rockets team without Yao or TMac who were injured. Then plays the Magic who had to beat two 60 win teams and were beat up, while the Lakers got the piss easy run.

How about 2010? Beats the Jazz again without Okur or Kirilenko... Plays the Suns before that who are 26th in the league in PPG allowed. Never a great playoff team. Beats the 50 win Celtics in the finals... When is the last time a 50 win team got into the finals?

[TheMarkMadsen]

How many time has kobe taken a less than 50 wins team to the championship?
Lebron proved that he could take an average less than 50 wins team to championship in 2012. Has Kobe done that?

how many times did Kobe have the luxury of facing a 47 win team in the finals...

:rolleyes:

did you even think that through before posting??

:oldlol:

[kennethgriffin]

[QUOTE=aj1987]How are you Chuckbe stans still breathing? You guys are retarded beyond belief. :facepalm

Elimination Game Stats

[livinglegend]

how many times did Kobe have the luxury of facing a 47 win team in the finals...

:rolleyes:

did you even think that through before posting??

:oldlol:

He did face a 47 win team in 2012 and got raped.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Can you explain why it is no surprise, since he is one of the most durable players, or are you just saying random shit for the hell of it?

What exactly is Kobe's hardest run in a finals MVP season?

2009 plays an injured Utah team missing their second best player, and their 3rd best player injured. Then plays a Rockets team without Yao or TMac who were injured. Then plays the Magic who had to beat two 60 win teams and were beat up, while the Lakers got the piss easy run.

How about 2010? Beats the Jazz again without Okur or Kirilenko... Plays the Suns before that who are 26th in the league in PPG allowed. Never a great playoff team. Beats the 50 win Celtics in the finals... When is the last time a 50 win team got into the finals?

the only time time Lebron faced multiple 50+ win teams on his way to the finals he broke down at the end...

Kobe averaged 33/7/6 on 50% in 01 while beating the 50 win trail blazers the 55 in kings and the 58 win Spurs.. while being the leading scorer on better efficiency than prime Shaq in those last 2 series while also leading the team in assist..they went undefeated..

Lebron got beat by the Magic in 5, Celtics sent his ass running away from home

Kobe beat both those teams while averaging 30/6/5 in those combined finals

:roll: :roll:

[kennethgriffin]

think about it like this


kobe = 50+ win playoff teams claimed (24)
finals record = 5 for 7

lebron = 50+ win playoff teams claimed (6)
finals record = 2 for 5



kobe beat 19 teams with 50+ wins to make 7 finals

lebron beat 4 teams with 50+ wins to make 5 finals


so basically kobe has to beat 4 times as much competition to get to a chance to battle in the finals

meaning..

kobes rings are literally worth 4 times as much


so kobe basically has 20 rings to lebrons 2




lebron would need to win 18 more titles coming out of the east to match kobes value

[LeBird]

The Kobe v Lebron debate was over a long time ago. Respect to the fight of the man, but Lebron is just a better player, full stop.

[livinglegend]

The Kobe v Lebron debate was over a long time ago. Respect to the fight of the man, but Lebron is just a better player, full stop.

/thread.

[aj1987]

and yet

kobe = 50+ win playoff teams claimed (24)
finals record = 5 for 7

lebron = 50+ win playoff teams claimed (6)
finals record = 2 for 5
Yeah, must be hard to play on a team with a top 5 GOAT + GOAT coach and the best front line + GOAT coach. :rolleyes:

Hold this L, kid. Literally the only argument you have against LeBron is RANGZZZ (which Kobe got carried to). LeBron has 3 more MVP's and the same number of FMVP's in 7 fewer season. :roll:

[TheMarkMadsen]

He did face a 47 win team in 2012 and got raped.

31/5/3/2 for the series.. 42 on 55% in the elimination game

[kennethgriffin]

The Kobe v Lebron debate was over a long time ago. Respect to the fight of the man, but Lebron is just a better player, full stop.


well this settles it


god has spoken

who needs logic and evidence when we have the word of the lord

:bowdown:























oh wait... 5 for 7... vs 2 for 5....

[livinglegend]

31/5/3/2 for the series.. 42 on 55% in the elimination game

he lost.

NEXT

[aj1987]

31/5/3/2 for the series.. 42 on 55% in the elimination game
Oh, so NOW stats matter and winning doesn't? :rolleyes:

Kobeturds, man... :roll:

[TheMarkMadsen]

Yeah, must be hard to play on a team with a top 5 GOAT + GOAT coach and the best front line + GOAT coach. :rolleyes:

Hold this L, kid. Literally the only argument you have against LeBron is RANGZZZ (which Kobe got carried to). LeBron has 3 more MVP's and the same number of FMVP's in 7 fewer season. :roll:


29/7/6 = carried

26/8/6 = GOAT

:roll: :roll:

[livinglegend]

well this settles it


god has spoken

who needs logic and evidence when we have the word of the lord

:bowdown:







oh wait... 5 for 7... vs 2 for 5....

it's 2/5 for LBJ and 2/7 for Kobe.


NEXT

[livinglegend]

Oh, so NOW stats matter and winning doesn't? :rolleyes:

Kobeturds, man... :roll:

I owned him. :oldlol:

[aj1987]

29/7/6 = carried

26/8/6 = GOAT

:roll: :roll:
Remind me, kid. Who was the guy who was putting up 34/15/3/3 in the Finals while his sidekick was busy building houses? :roll:

[TheMarkMadsen]

Oh, so NOW stats matter and winning doesn't? :rolleyes:

Kobeturds, man... :roll:

how do you get "raped" while averaging 30 points for the series and putting up 42 in the elimination game?

Did Lebron put up 30 points per game and 42 in the final game while getting eliminated in the last 4 years.. :confusedshrug:

yall went from "stats>rings" to "efficiency>stats" to "rings>stats" after KD came along now yall are on "wins>efficiency"
make up your mind :roll:

[TheMarkMadsen]

Remind me, kid. Who was the guy who was putting up 34/15/3/3 in the Finals while his sidekick was busy building houses? :roll:

what are you talking about moron?

Kobe averaged 29ppg on 45% in the 4 wins against the 76ers and then 27 ppg on 51% against the Nets..

[livinglegend]

how do you get "raped" while averaging 30 points for the series and putting up 42 in the elimination game?

Did Lebron put up 30 points per game and 42 in the final game while getting eliminated in the last 4 years.. :confusedshrug:

yall went from "stats>rings" to "efficiency>stats" to "rings>stats" after KD came along now yall are on "wins>efficiency"
make up your mind :roll:

Efficiency and stats go together dumbass.

NEXT

[TheMarkMadsen]

Lebron stans so shook :lol :lol

Lebron clearly faces weaker competition while playing in the EAST

without the big 3 he is less efficient in the playoffs than Kobe

he has a losing winning % in the finals

he just won a series shooting sub 40% with 5 turnovers per game after lebron stans told us he would "have to play like superman" for the Cavs to even have a chance..

[aj1987]

what are you talking about moron?

Kobe averaged 29ppg on 45% in the 4 wins against the 76ers and then 27 ppg on 51% against the Nets..
"4 wins"?

:roll:

Just give up, fool.

16 PPG on 37% against the Pacers vs 38 PPG on 61%
25 PPG on 41% against the 76ers vs 33 PPG on 57%
27 PPG on 51% against the Nets vs 35 PPG on 60%

In only LeBron had a teammate who averaged 35 PPG on 60% over 3 straight Finals.


how do you get "raped" while averaging 30 points for the series and putting up 42 in the elimination game?

Did Lebron put up 30 points per game and 42 in the final game while getting eliminated in the last 4 years.. :confusedshrug:

yall went from "stats>rings" to "efficiency>stats" to "rings>stats" after KD came along now yall are on "wins>efficiency"
make up your mind :roll:
Go back read your post. You've always had a second grade level reading comprehension.

[TheMarkMadsen]

bran stans main argument

"take away half of Kobe's career & Lebron>Kobe"

never gets old :roll: :roll:

[24-Inch_Chrome]

LeBron > Kobe but both are bottom tier top-10 calibre players (10th and 11th for me, respectively).

Serious question: kenneth, do you have autism?

[aj1987]

bran stans main argument

"take away half of Kobe's career & Lebron>Kobe"

never gets old :roll: :roll:
Who's taking away half his career? Dude got carried to 3 rings. Won 0 FMVP's. A single MVP over his entire career.

Again, in 19 years, Kobe won 5 rings, 2 FMVP's, and an MVP. LeBron won 4 MVP's, 2 rings, and 2 FMVP's in 12 years. Literally the only think that Kobe turds can use against LeBron is "RANGZZ". LeBron > Kobe. You really need to get over it and stop melting down.

[TheMarkMadsen]

how mad are Kobe haters that Kobe made 3 straight finals without Shaq while putting up better numbers without Shaq on better efficiency without Shaq than with Shaq :roll: :roll:

[ImKobe]

"4 wins"?

:roll:

Just give up, fool.

16 PPG on 37% against the Pacers vs 38 PPG on 61%
25 PPG on 41% against the 76ers vs 33 PPG on 57%
27 PPG on 51% against the Nets vs 35 PPG on 60%

In only LeBron had a teammate who averaged 35 PPG on 60% over 3 straight Finals.

who ran the triangle :kobe:
who played elite perimeter defense :kobe:
who had a game-winner vs Suns, game-winning block on Sabonis and put up 25/12/7 with 4 blocks in Game 7 WCF while Shaq put up 18/9 :kobe:
who led the Lakers to a OT win on the road with Shaq out :kobe:
who averaged 31/7/6 through the first 3 rounds and 33/7/7 in the WCF vs Spurs in 01 :kobe:
who averaged 27/6/5 on 51% shooting with 54% from 3 in 02 Finals :kobe:

Kobe - 33/7/7/2 on 51/36/77 shooting vs Spurs 01 WCF in handcheck era at age 22
Lebron - 22/7/7 on 36/20/69 shooting with 5.8 TOV in 2007 Finals vs Spurs at age 22

01 Spurs - 98.0 DRTG (1st) with 42% Opponent FG%, prime Duncan, D-Rob still averaged 17/12 with 2.4 blocks in the Playoffs with a 92 DRTG

07 Spurs - 99.9 DRTG (2nd) with 44% Opponent FG%, past-prime Duncan, past-prime Bowen locking down Lebron

It's not even close.

[ImKobe]

and for those that say Shaq was the reason Kobe played so well, just watch the damn tapes and see how most of the time it's Kobe shooting contested jumpers and finishing over Duncan & D-Rob, going by himself in transition and finishing over multiple defenders, getting fouled and still getting the shots to go

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qawbo3NOmR4

Just look at that defense when they are in the half court setting, you have 2-3 guys locked in on Kobe and they force him to either give up the ball or to take a long 2, and he couldn't miss.

22 yr old Kobe in 01 Playoffs is far better than any version of Lebron.

They SWEPT the 01 Spurs with Shaq averaging 27/13 on medicore efficiency vs a Duncan that averaged 23/12 with 4.3 blocks a game despite playing limited minutes in the last 2 games because they got blown out. Duncan first two games at home shitted on Shaq and Lakers still won comfortably because Kobe put up 37/9/5 on the road at San Antonio.

[aj1987]

who ran the triangle :kobe:
who played elite perimeter defense :kobe:
who had a game-winner vs Suns, game-winning block on Sabonis and put up 25/12/7 with 4 blocks in Game 7 WCF while Shaq put up 18/9 :kobe:
who led the Lakers to a OT win on the road with Shaq out :kobe:
who averaged 31/7/6 through the first 3 rounds and 33/7/7 in the WCF vs Spurs in 01 :kobe:
who averaged 27/6/5 on 51% shooting with 54% from 3 in 02 Finals :kobe:

Kobe - 33/7/7/2 on 51/36/77 shooting vs Spurs 01 WCF in handcheck era at age 22
Lebron - 22/7/7 on 36/20/69 shooting with 5.8 TOV in 2007 Finals vs Spurs at age 22

01 Spurs - 98.0 DRTG (1st) with 42% Opponent FG%, prime Duncan, D-Rob still averaged 17/12 with 2.4 blocks in the Playoffs with a 92 DRTG

07 Spurs - 99.9 DRTG (2nd) with 44% Opponent FG%, past-prime Duncan, past-prime Bowen locking down Lebron

It's not even close.
Are you seriously comparing two COMPLETELY different teams? Not to mention one player had a top 5 GOAT and a top 2 GOAT C on his team, along with the GOAT coach? You think Timmy and Robinson were on the perimeter guarding Kobe?

Replace Kobe with LeBron.
'98 - With '05 LeBron, they beat the Jazz and make the Finals.
'99 - With '06 LeBron, they might beat the Spurs and win the Finals.
'00 - With '07 LeBron, they win the Finals.
'01 - With '08 LeBron, they win the Finals.
'02 - With '09 LeBron, they win the Finals.
'03 - With '10 LeBorn, they beat the Spurs and win the Finals.
'04 - With '11 LeBron, they lost to the Pistons.
'05 - Shaq stays because LeBron doesn't drive him out of town. Beat the Spurs and win the Finals.
'06 - With '12 LeBron, they make the Finals and win it.
'07 - Shaq declines with '13 LeBron and they lose to the Spurs.
'08 - Acquire Gasol. With '14 LeBron, they beat the Celtics in the Finals.

LeBron + Shaq and later Gasol + GOAT coach = 6+ rings. You guys literally have no idea how fortunate Kobe was, playing the entire first half of his career with Shaq and (almost) his entire career with Jax.

'00 Finals - 38/17/2/3 on 61%
'01 Finals - 36/16/5/3 on 57%
'02 Finals - 36/12/4/3 on 60%
'04 Finals - 27/11/2/1 on 63%

LeBron never had the luxury of playing in the PO's with a player of Shaq's caliber.


Try harder, kid.

[Ne 1]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BTId0VHCAAA6yfD.jpg:large

http://i2.minus.com/iOKZLpUEvwsrw.jpg

[ImKobe]

Are you seriously comparing two COMPLETELY different teams? Not to mention one player had a top 5 GOAT and a top 2 GOAT C on his team, along with the GOAT coach? You think Timmy and Robinson were on the perimeter guarding Kobe?

Replace Kobe with LeBron.
'98 - With '05 LeBron, they beat the Jazz and make the Finals.
'99 - With '06 LeBron, they might beat the Spurs and win the Finals.
'00 - With '07 LeBron, they win the Finals.
'01 - With '08 LeBron, they win the Finals.
'02 - With '09 LeBron, they win the Finals.
'03 - With '10 LeBorn, they beat the Spurs and win the Finals.
'04 - With '11 LeBron, they lost to the Pistons.
'05 - Shaq stays because LeBron doesn't drive him out of town. Beat the Spurs and win the Finals.
'06 - With '12 LeBron, they make the Finals and win it.
'07 - Shaq declines with '13 LeBron and they lose to the Spurs.
'08 - Acquire Gasol. With '14 LeBron, they beat the Celtics in the Finals.

LeBron + Shaq and later Gasol + GOAT coach = 6+ rings. You guys literally have no idea how fortunate Kobe was, playing the entire first half of his career with Shaq and (almost) his entire career with Jax.

'00 Finals - 38/17/2/3 on 61%
'01 Finals - 36/16/5/3 on 57%
'02 Finals - 36/12/4/3 on 60%
'04 Finals - 27/11/2/1 on 63%

LeBron never had the luxury of playing in the PO's with a player of Shaq's caliber.


Try harder, kid.

So, you use hypothetical scenarios to come back on my facts? :facepalm

Fact is that Lebron is 2/5 and only managed to win 2 out of 4 on stacked rosters, costing his team a ring in 2011 and nearly costing his team another ring in 2013....You replace Wade and Bosh with Shaq and you think all of a sudden he'd be a winner?

He couldn't beat the Spurs because he had a weak ass jumper, what makes you think he could beat a better defensive version of that team with a prime Duncan?

At 21 years of age, you think he would be good enough to do what Kobe did in that Portland series, that he would rise from sidekick status and completely control a Game 7 while Shaq is ineffective? That he could severly sprain his ankle and return and play 40+ minutes and then step up in Overtime with Shaq fouled out?

Or how about 2002 vs Kings, Lakers were down 2 - 3 in that series, do you think Lebron could average 31/11/6 while having one turnover in 96 minutes of play with both games coming down the wire and winning a Game 7 in OT on the road?

You have no facts to base your hypothetical scenarios on.

:oldlol: at 2005, you seriously believe that? If you allow me to do the math, they make 7 straight Finals and you believe they will get past 05 Spurs AND 05 Pistons as well? :biggums: :biggums: And to make matters worse, you have them making the Finals AND winning in 06 as well? :kobe: :kobe: Like fatigue doesn't exist in the real world and everything would be nice between Lebron and Shaq, when fat Shaq demands 30 million a year extension at the age of 32. You add all those extra Finals appearances/title runs you made up in your head from 98-99 and 03, you have Shaq declining even further and Lebron isn't superman, we've seen him tire out and quit in the Playoffs before (08, 09, 10, 11)

[aj1987]

So, you use hypothetical scenarios to come back on my facts? :facepalm
I've literally used more fact than you in each of my posts.


Fact is that Lebron is 2/5 and only managed to win 2 out of 4 on stacked rosters, costing his team a ring in 2011 and nearly costing his team another ring in 2013....You replace Wade and Bosh with Shaq and you think all of a sudden he'd be a winner?
Prime/Peak Shaq is arguably the GOAT. '00-'03 Shaq >>>>> '11-'14 Wade and Bosh. Yeah, it's not close either. People actually argue that peak Shaq (3peat) was better than PEAK MJ. A level only ~3 players have EVER reached in the history of basketball.


He couldn't beat the Spurs because he had a weak ass jumper, what makes you think he could beat a better defensive version of that team with a prime Duncan?
With all the attention that Shaq would be drawing, LeBron would be facing single coverage. Not to mention a VASTLY improved roster, compared to the one he had in '07. Heck, put '01 Kobe on the '07 Cav's and they don't even make the Finals either. Lets not pretend otherwise.


At 21 years of age, you think he would be good enough to do what Kobe did in that Portland series, that he would rise from sidekick status and completely control a Game 7 while Shaq is ineffective? That he could severly sprain his ankle and return and play 40+ minutes and then step up in Overtime with Shaq fouled out?
Hah! They wouldn't even go to 7 games in the first place. LeBron at 21 averaged 31/7/7 in the RS and 31/8/6 in the PO's. Ancient Pippen and Bonzi Wells aren't stopping LeBron.


Or how about 2002 vs Kings, Lakers were down 2 - 3 in that series, do you think Lebron could average 31/11/6 while having one turnover in 96 minutes of play with both games coming down the wire and winning a Game 7 in OT on the road?
'02 would be with '09 MVP, All-NBA First, All-Def First team LeBron. A dude who was runner-up or 3rd in DPOY voting, IIRC. A guy who led the Cav's to 66 wins and dropped 38/8/8 on the Magic, while the rest of his crew choked MASSIVELY. Again, that series is going nowhere near 7 games.

You have no facts to base your hypothetical scenarios on.


at 2005, you seriously believe that? If you allow me to do the math, they make 7 straight Finals and you believe they will get past 05 Spurs AND 05 Pistons as well? And to make matters worse, you have them making the Finals AND winning in 06 as well? Like fatigue doesn't exist in the real world and everything would be nice between Lebron and Shaq, when fat Shaq demands 30 million a year extension at the age of 32.
We'll see. LeBron has been to two ECF's and 4 straight Finals (make it one ECF and 5 straight Finals if he make it this year).

Messed up my years there a bit. '05 would be MVP level '05 Shaq with '12 PEAK MVP LeBron. You think they couldn't beat the Spurs? '06? Again, a decent Shaq with '13 MVP LeBron vs Wade and the Heat. Let me actually change '06 to might win.

Since you want FACT, let me give you some:

'00 Finals - 38/17/2/3 on 61%
'01 Finals - 36/16/5/3 on 57%
'02 Finals - 36/12/4/3 on 60%
'04 Finals - 27/11/2/1 on 63%

LeBron never had the luxury of playing in the PO's with a player of Shaq's caliber.

Elimination Game Stats

[ImKobe]

I've literally used more fact than you in each of my posts.




:biggums:

In your prior post, the only facts you posted were Shaq's Finals numbers, rest is fiction.

Timmy and D-Rob protect the rim, Kobe in 01 (if you watched a second of that series back then or if you watched the video I posted) had no problems dunking on both of them in back-to-back plays and he had no problem finishing over them.

Never had a player of Shaq's caliber? Shaq is ONE player, it's not like the Lakers had much outside of Kobe and Shaq, plus 2011 Heat he had Wade average 27/7/5 on 55% shooting in the Finals and his team lost in 6 games :facepalm, what makes you think he wouldn't have similar chokejobs playing with Shaq? Maybe opposing teams just pack the paint and focus on Shaq and force Lebron to shoot wide open jumpers? Isn't that how he got locked down in 07? :rolleyes:

That is the main reason why I don't believe Lebron would have that kind of success you posted; Lebron early in his career couldn't shoot worth a damn in the Playoffs. By your logic, Lebron and Shaq make what, 9 Finals together in 10 seasons? How ****ing logical is that? Shaq and Kobe had 3 championship runs together and Shaq got fat and slower after the 3-peat and was injured for parts of the 03 season and his Playoff numbers dropped considerably and he was outplayed by peak Duncan.

Another thing to consider, you already have them making two consecutive Finals and winning a title before they even bring in Phil, that would mean no Phil signing, you think they would be that successful with Del fricken Harris?

[aj1987]

Timmy and D-Rob protect the rim, Kobe in 01 (if you watched a second of that series back then or if you watched the video I posted) had no problems dunking on both of them in back-to-back plays and he had no problem finishing over them.
And you think prime/peak LeBron would have a problem with them? With Shaq as the lead dog on his team? '07 Cav's were a bunch of scrubs. Now just imagine you replace Z with PEAK ****ing Shaq.


Never had a player of Shaq's caliber? Shaq is ONE player, it's not like the Lakers had much outside of Kobe and Shaq, plus 2011 Heat he had Wade average 27/7/5 on 55% shooting in the Finals and his team lost in 6 games :facepalm, what makes you think he wouldn't have similar chokejobs playing with Shaq? Maybe opposing teams just pack the paint and focus on Shaq and force Lebron to shoot wide open jumpers? Isn't that how he got locked down in 07?
Dude, have you even seen prime Shaq? Shaq in '04 and '05 was still raping the league. He was absolutely destroying teams and was the runner-up MVP in '05.
From my previous post:
Prime/Peak Shaq is arguably the GOAT. '00-'03 Shaq >>>>> '11-'14 Wade and Bosh. Yeah, it's not close either. People actually argue that peak Shaq (3peat) was better than PEAK MJ. A level only ~3 players have EVER reached in the history of basketball.

LeBron could choke all he want's, but Shaq putting up 38/17/3/4 on 60%+ would carry him. He carried Kobrick in '00 while he averaged 16 PPG on 37%. What makes you think LeBron would do any worse than that?


That is the main reason why I don't believe Lebron would have that kind of success you posted; Lebron early in his career couldn't shoot worth a damn in the Playoffs. By your logic, Lebron and Shaq make what, 9 Finals together in 10 seasons? How ****ing logical is that? Shaq and Kobe had 3 championship runs together and Shaq got fat and slower after the 3-peat and was injured for parts of the 03 season and his Playoff numbers dropped considerably and he was outplayed by peak Duncan.

Another thing to consider, you already have them making two consecutive Finals and winning a title before they even bring in Phil, that would mean no Phil signing, you think they would be that successful with Del fricken Harris?
LeBron could literally carry the team in the RS and let Shaq takeover in the PO's. Shaq could get all the rest he needs in the RS. LeBron was inefficient TWICE in his playoff career. Once in '07 and the other time in '08. Kobe won two rings on 2% worse efficiency than LeBron. :oldlol:

'00 Finals - 38/17/2/3 on 61%
'01 Finals - 36/16/5/3 on 57%
'02 Finals - 36/12/4/3 on 60%
'04 Finals - 27/11/2/1 on 63%

LeBron never had the luxury of playing in the PO's with a player of Shaq's caliber.

Elimination Game Stats – Kobe Bryant: 9 Wins, 10 Losses
97’ G5 vs. UTA – 11 PTS, 2 RBS, 2 AST, 1 STL, 0 BLK, 1 TOV, 4/14 FG, 0/6 3P, 3/3 FT
98’ G4 vs. UTA – 6 PTS, 1 RBS, 0 AST, 1 STL, 1 BLK, 3 TOV, 2/2 FG, 0/0 3P, 2/2 FT
99’ G4 vs. SAS – 16 PTS, 5 RBS, 8 AST, 0 STL, 0 BLK, 3 TOV, 7/16 FG, 1/3 3P, 1/2 FT
00’ G5 vs. SAC – 17 PTS, 2 RBS, 6 AST, 0 STL, 3 BLK, 1 TOV, 7/16 FG, 1/5 3P, 2/2 FT
00’ G7 vs. POR – 25 PTS, 11 RBS, 7 AST, 0 STL, 4 BLK, 2 TOV, 9/19 FG, 1/4 3P, 6/12 FT
02’ G6 vs. SAC – 31 PTS, 11 RBS, 5 AST, 0 STL, 0 BLK, 1 TOV, 10/20 FG, 0/0 3P, 11/11 FT
02’ G7 vs. SAC – 30 PTS, 10 RBS, 7 AST, 2 STL, 0 BLK, 0 TOV, 10/26 FG, 2/3 3P, 8/10 FT
03’ G6 vs. SAS – 20 PTS, 2 RBS, 6 AST, 1 STL, 0 BLK, 7 TOV, 9/19 FG, 2/5 3P, 0/2 FT
04’ G5 vs. DET – 24 PTS, 3 RBS, 4 AST, 1 STL, 0 BLK, 3 TOV, 7/21 FG, 0/2 3P, 10/11 FT
06’ G7 vs. PHX – 24 PTS, 4 RBS, 1 AST, 0 STL, 1 BLK, 3 TOV, 8/16 FG, 4/8 3P, 4/5 FT
07’ G5 vs. PHX – 34 PTS, 4 RBS, 1 AST, 1 STL, 0 BLK, 6 TOV, 13/33 FG, 2/8 3P, 6/7 FT
08’ G5 vs. BOS – 25 PTS, 7 RBS, 4 AST, 5 STL, 0 BLK, 6 TOV, 8/21 FG, 4/9 3P, 5/7 FT
08’ G6 vs. BOS – 22 PTS, 3 RBS, 1 AST, 1 STL, 0 BLK, 4 TOV, 7/22 FG, 3/9 3P 5/5 FT
09’ G7 vs. HOU – 14 PTS, 7 RBS, 5 AST, 3 STL, 2 BLK, 1 TOV, 4/12 FG, 1/4 3P, 5/6 FT
10’ G6 vs. BOS – 26 PTS, 11 RBS, 3 AST, 4 STL, 0 BLK, 2 TOV, 9/19 FG, 1/4 3P, 7/7 FT
10’ G7 vs. BOS – 23 PTS, 15 RBS, 2 AST, 1 STL, 0 BLK, 4 TOV, 6/24 FG, 0/6 3P, 11/15 FT
11’ G4 vs. DAL – 17 PTS, 3 RBS, 1 AST, 0 STL, 0 BLK, 5 TOV, 7/18 FG, 0/5 3P, 3/4 FT
12’ G7 vs. DEN – 17 PTS, 1 RBS, 8 AST, 0 STL, 1 BLK, 3 TOV, 7/16 FG, 2/4 3P, 1/4 FT
12’ G5 vs. OKC – 42 PTS, 5 RBS, 0 AST, 2 STL, 0 BLK, 2 TOV, 18/33 FG, 1/6 3P, 5/7 FT


Elimination Game Stats – LeBron James: 7 Wins, 6 Losses
06’ G7 vs. DET – 27 PTS, 8 RBS, 2 AST, 1 STL, 0 BLK, 3 TOV, 11/24 FG, 0/4 3P, 5/8 FT
07’ G4 vs. SAS – 24 PTS, 6 RBS, 10 AST, 0 STL, 0 BLK, 6 TOV, 10/30 FG, 2/7 3P, 2/6 FT
08’ G6 vs. BOS – 32 PTS, 12 RBS, 6 AST, 2 STL, 1 BLK, 8 TOV, 9/23 FG, 1/3 3P, 13/15 FT
08’ G7 vs. BOS – 45 PTS, 5 RBS, 6 AST, 2 STL, 0 BLK, 2 TOV, 14/29 FG, 3/11 3P, 14/19 FT
09’ G5 vs. ORL – 37 PTS, 14 RBS, 12 AST, 1 STL, 1 BLK, 4 TOV, 11/24 FG, 0/2 3P, 15/19 FT
09’ G6 vs. ORL – 25 PTS, 6 RBS, 7 AST, 0 STL, 1 BLK, 3 TOV, 8/20 FG, 2/8 3P, 2/4 FT
10’ G6 vs. BOS – 27 PTS, 19 RBS, 10 AST, 3 STL, 1 BLK, 9 TOV, 8/21 FG, 2/4 3P, 9/12 FT
11’ G6 vs. DAL – 21 PTS, 4 RBS, 6 AST, 1 STL, 1 BLK, 6 TOV, 9/15 FG, 2/5 3P, 1/4 FT
12’ G6 vs. BOS – 45 PTS, 15 RBS, 5 AST, 0 STL, 0 BLK, 4 TOV, 19/26 FG, 2/4 3P, 5/9 FT
12’ G7 vs. BOS – 31 PTS, 12 RBS, 2 AST, 1 STL, 1 BLK, 3 TOV, 9/21 FG, 1/5 3P, 12/17 FT
13’ G7 vs. IND – 32 PTS, 8 RBS, 4 AST, 2 STL, 1 BLK, 2 TOV, 8/17 FG, 1/2 3P, 15/16 FT
13’ G6 vs. SAS – 32 PTS, 10 RBS, 11 AST, 3 STL, 1 BLK, 6 TOV, 11/26 FG, 1/5 3P, 9/12 FT
13’ G7 vs. SAS – 37 PTS, 12 RBS, 4 AST, 2 STL, 0 BLK, 2 TOV, 12/23 FG, 5/10 3P, 8/8 FT

LeBron not only has a better record, he does literally everything better than Kobe except FT shooting and TOV's.

LeBron RS career averages: 27.3 PPG 7.1 RPG 6.9 APG 1.7 SPG 0.8 BPG on 58.1% TS
Kobe... RS career averages: 25.4 PPG 5.4 RPG 4.8 APG 1.5 SPG 0.5 BPG on 55.5% TS

Again, LeBron does EVERYTHING better than Kobe.

LeBron PO's Career averages: 27.9 PPG 8.5 RPG 6.5 APG 1.8 SPG 0.9 BPG on 57.2% TS
Kobe .. PO's Career averages: 25.6 PPG 5.1 RPG 4.7 APG 1.4 SPG 0.4 BPG on 54.1% TS

Once again, the ONLY argument Kobe has over LeBorn is rings, and he definitely gets that because he has had MUCH stronger teams and coaches over his career.

Anyways, I'm done for now. Going out to get drunk. Friday evening here.

[ImKobe]

I've literally used more fact than you in each of my posts.


Prime/Peak Shaq is arguably the GOAT. '00-'03 Shaq >>>>> '11-'14 Wade and Bosh. Yeah, it's not close either. People actually argue that peak Shaq (3peat) was better than PEAK MJ. A level only ~3 players have EVER reached in the history of basketball.


With all the attention that Shaq would be drawing, LeBron would be facing single coverage. Not to mention a VASTLY improved roster, compared to the one he had in '07. Heck, put '01 Kobe on the '07 Cav's and they don't even make the Finals either. Lets not pretend otherwise.


Hah! They wouldn't even go to 7 games in the first place. LeBron at 21 averaged 31/7/7 in the RS and 31/8/6 in the PO's. Ancient Pippen and Bonzi Wells aren't stopping LeBron.


'02 would be with '09 MVP, All-NBA First, All-Def First team LeBron. A dude who was runner-up or 3rd in DPOY voting, IIRC. A guy who led the Cav's to 66 wins and dropped 38/8/8 on the Magic, while the rest of his crew choked MASSIVELY. Again, that series is going nowhere near 7 games.

You have no facts to base your hypothetical scenarios on.


We'll see. LeBron has been to two ECF's and 4 straight Finals (make it one ECF and 5 straight Finals if he make it this year).

Messed up my years there a bit. '05 would be MVP level '05 Shaq with '12 PEAK MVP LeBron. You think they couldn't beat the Spurs? '06? Again, a decent Shaq with '13 MVP LeBron vs Wade and the Heat. Let me actually change '06 to might win.

Since you want FACT, let me give you some:

'00 Finals - 38/17/2/3 on 61%
'01 Finals - 36/16/5/3 on 57%
'02 Finals - 36/12/4/3 on 60%
'04 Finals - 27/11/2/1 on 63%

LeBron never had the luxury of playing in the PO's with a player of Shaq's caliber.

Elimination Game Stats – Kobe Bryant: 9 Wins, 10 Losses
97’ G5 vs. UTA – 11 PTS, 2 RBS, 2 AST, 1 STL, 0 BLK, 1 TOV, 4/14 FG, 0/6 3P, 3/3 FT
98’ G4 vs. UTA – 6 PTS, 1 RBS, 0 AST, 1 STL, 1 BLK, 3 TOV, 2/2 FG, 0/0 3P, 2/2 FT
99’ G4 vs. SAS – 16 PTS, 5 RBS, 8 AST, 0 STL, 0 BLK, 3 TOV, 7/16 FG, 1/3 3P, 1/2 FT
00’ G5 vs. SAC – 17 PTS, 2 RBS, 6 AST, 0 STL, 3 BLK, 1 TOV, 7/16 FG, 1/5 3P, 2/2 FT
00’ G7 vs. POR – 25 PTS, 11 RBS, 7 AST, 0 STL, 4 BLK, 2 TOV, 9/19 FG, 1/4 3P, 6/12 FT
02’ G6 vs. SAC – 31 PTS, 11 RBS, 5 AST, 0 STL, 0 BLK, 1 TOV, 10/20 FG, 0/0 3P, 11/11 FT
02’ G7 vs. SAC – 30 PTS, 10 RBS, 7 AST, 2 STL, 0 BLK, 0 TOV, 10/26 FG, 2/3 3P, 8/10 FT
03’ G6 vs. SAS – 20 PTS, 2 RBS, 6 AST, 1 STL, 0 BLK, 7 TOV, 9/19 FG, 2/5 3P, 0/2 FT
04’ G5 vs. DET – 24 PTS, 3 RBS, 4 AST, 1 STL, 0 BLK, 3 TOV, 7/21 FG, 0/2 3P, 10/11 FT
06’ G7 vs. PHX – 24 PTS, 4 RBS, 1 AST, 0 STL, 1 BLK, 3 TOV, 8/16 FG, 4/8 3P, 4/5 FT
07’ G5 vs. PHX – 34 PTS, 4 RBS, 1 AST, 1 STL, 0 BLK, 6 TOV, 13/33 FG, 2/8 3P, 6/7 FT
08’ G5 vs. BOS – 25 PTS, 7 RBS, 4 AST, 5 STL, 0 BLK, 6 TOV, 8/21 FG, 4/9 3P, 5/7 FT
08’ G6 vs. BOS – 22 PTS, 3 RBS, 1 AST, 1 STL, 0 BLK, 4 TOV, 7/22 FG, 3/9 3P 5/5 FT
09’ G7 vs. HOU – 14 PTS, 7 RBS, 5 AST, 3 STL, 2 BLK, 1 TOV, 4/12 FG, 1/4 3P, 5/6 FT
10’ G6 vs. BOS – 26 PTS, 11 RBS, 3 AST, 4 STL, 0 BLK, 2 TOV, 9/19 FG, 1/4 3P, 7/7 FT
10’ G7 vs. BOS – 23 PTS, 15 RBS, 2 AST, 1 STL, 0 BLK, 4 TOV, 6/24 FG, 0/6 3P, 11/15 FT
11’ G4 vs. DAL – 17 PTS, 3 RBS, 1 AST, 0 STL, 0 BLK, 5 TOV, 7/18 FG, 0/5 3P, 3/4 FT
12’ G7 vs. DEN – 17 PTS, 1 RBS, 8 AST, 0 STL, 1 BLK, 3 TOV, 7/16 FG, 2/4 3P, 1/4 FT
12’ G5 vs. OKC – 42 PTS, 5 RBS, 0 AST, 2 STL, 0 BLK, 2 TOV, 18/33 FG, 1/6 3P, 5/7 FT


Elimination Game Stats – LeBron James: 7 Wins, 6 Losses
06’ G7 vs. DET – 27 PTS, 8 RBS, 2 AST, 1 STL, 0 BLK, 3 TOV, 11/24 FG, 0/4 3P, 5/8 FT
07’ G4 vs. SAS – 24 PTS, 6 RBS, 10 AST, 0 STL, 0 BLK, 6 TOV, 10/30 FG, 2/7 3P, 2/6 FT
08’ G6 vs. BOS – 32 PTS, 12 RBS, 6 AST, 2 STL, 1 BLK, 8 TOV, 9/23 FG, 1/3 3P, 13/15 FT
08’ G7 vs. BOS – 45 PTS, 5 RBS, 6 AST, 2 STL, 0 BLK, 2 TOV, 14/29 FG, 3/11 3P, 14/19 FT
09’ G5 vs. ORL – 37 PTS, 14 RBS, 12 AST, 1 STL, 1 BLK, 4 TOV, 11/24 FG, 0/2 3P, 15/19 FT
09’ G6 vs. ORL – 25 PTS, 6 RBS, 7 AST, 0 STL, 1 BLK, 3 TOV, 8/20 FG, 2/8 3P, 2/4 FT
10’ G6 vs. BOS – 27 PTS, 19 RBS, 10 AST, 3 STL, 1 BLK, 9 TOV, 8/21 FG, 2/4 3P, 9/12 FT
11’ G6 vs. DAL – 21 PTS, 4 RBS, 6 AST, 1 STL, 1 BLK, 6 TOV, 9/15 FG, 2/5 3P, 1/4 FT
12’ G6 vs. BOS – 45 PTS, 15 RBS, 5 AST, 0 STL, 0 BLK, 4 TOV, 19/26 FG, 2/4 3P, 5/9 FT
12’ G7 vs. BOS – 31 PTS, 12 RBS, 2 AST, 1 STL, 1 BLK, 3 TOV, 9/21 FG, 1/5 3P, 12/17 FT
13’ G7 vs. IND – 32 PTS, 8 RBS, 4 AST, 2 STL, 1 BLK, 2 TOV, 8/17 FG, 1/2 3P, 15/16 FT
13’ G6 vs. SAS – 32 PTS, 10 RBS, 11 AST, 3 STL, 1 BLK, 6 TOV, 11/26 FG, 1/5 3P, 9/12 FT
13’ G7 vs. SAS – 37 PTS, 12 RBS, 4 AST, 2 STL, 0 BLK, 2 TOV, 12/23 FG, 5/10 3P, 8/8 FT

LeBron not only has a better record, he does literally everything better than Kobe except FT shooting and TOV's.

LeBron RS career averages: 27.3 PPG 7.1 RPG 6.9 APG 1.7 SPG 0.8 BPG on 58.1% TS
Kobe... RS career averages: 25.4 PPG 5.4 RPG 4.8 APG 1.5 SPG 0.5 BPG on 55.5% TS

Again, LeBron does EVERYTHING better than Kobe.

LeBron PO's Career averages: 27.9 PPG 8.5 RPG 6.5 APG 1.8 SPG 0.9 BPG on 57.2% TS
Kobe .. PO's Career averages: 25.6 PPG 5.1 RPG 4.7 APG 1.4 SPG 0.4 BPG on 54.1% TS

Once again, the ONLY argument Kobe has over LeBorn is rings, and he definitely gets that because he has had MUCH stronger teams and coaches over his career.

Again, you base your arguments on AVERAGES. Only thing you prove here is that Lebron is more consistent player by the numbers, you compare their entire career averages when Lebron's decline has just begun, just this year his TS% is 49 against medicore Playoff teams and he's averaging 4 turnovers a game with a 22.9 PER, add in 3-4 more decline years and the averages will come down as well.

Plus, you include Kobe's years as a bench player (he came into the league at 17 years old, Lebron turned 19 early in his rookie year)...

Still, Lebron has a slight advantage by the numbers, his playing style is more kinder on the numbers, but individual stats alone do not win games, obviously.

Kobe has won more rings because his style of play has benefited his teams more. Lebron is a better floor general and since he's 6-8 with unmatched athleticism and he has about 30 pounds on Kobe, he's going to average more rebounds and assists, that's a given. It doesn't mean that Lebron's skillset nor his overall decision making is better than Kobe's. It doesn't mean he could have the same kind of success in Kobe's role. It doesn't work that way. You don't just replace players and expect them to perform the same way in a different scenario. There are too many variables for you to make that statement.

Shaq put up those numbers in the 90s and he didn't sniff one Finals win (despite having Penny, Grant) until Kobe became a top 10 player in the league. It's not a coincidence that the 01 Lakers swept through the West when Kobe's game was at it's peak. It's not a coincidence they lost Game 1 to Philly when Kobe's shot was off. It's not a coincidence they got outed in the 2nd round by the Spurs when Kobe wasn't as good as he was in 01.

Lebron is not Mr. Perfect. He isn't going to make 11 NBA Finals and win 10 of them just because you put him in Kobe's place. The entire scenario changes and none of us have any idea how that dynamic would work in the first place, and you wouldn't know how the opposing teams would game plan to stop Lebron.

Plus, Lakers don't get Pau if Shaq never leaves. Shaq was traded for Odom and Butler, they traded Butler + scraps for Kwame Brown. They also wouldn't have been bad enough to get Bynum. They wouldn't draft Crittenton and package him with Brown to get Pau, so you can forget about Lebron having Odom, Bynum and Pau after Shaq leaves.

You simply have nothing that would back up your ridiculous claim. You can't just predict 11 Playoff runs like that.

[Ne 1]

Again, you base your arguments on AVERAGES. Only thing you prove here is that Lebron is more consistent player by the numbers, you compare their entire career averages when Lebron's decline has just begun, just this year his TS% is 49 against medicore Playoff teams and he's averaging 4 turnovers a game with a 22.9 PER, add in 3-4 more decline years and the averages will come down as well.

Plus, you include Kobe's years as a bench player (he came into the league at 17 years old, Lebron turned 19 early in his rookie year)...

Still, Lebron has a slight advantage by the numbers, his playing style is more kinder on the numbers, but individual stats alone do not win games, obviously.

Kobe has won more rings because his style of play has benefited his teams more. Lebron is a better floor general and since he's 6-8 with unmatched athleticism and he has about 30 pounds on Kobe, he's going to average more rebounds and assists, that's a given. It doesn't mean that Lebron's skillset nor his overall decision making is better than Kobe's. It doesn't mean he could have the same kind of success in Kobe's role. It doesn't work that way. You don't just replace players and expect them to perform the same way in a different scenario. There are too many variables for you to make that statement.

Shaq put up those numbers in the 90s and he didn't sniff one Finals win (despite having Penny, Grant) until Kobe became a top 10 player in the league. It's not a coincidence that the 01 Lakers swept through the West when Kobe's game was at it's peak. It's not a coincidence they lost Game 1 to Philly when Kobe's shot was off. It's not a coincidence they got outed in the 2nd round by the Spurs when Kobe wasn't as good as he was in 01.

Lebron is not Mr. Perfect. He isn't going to make 11 NBA Finals and win 10 of them just because you put him in Kobe's place. The entire scenario changes and none of us have any idea how that dynamic would work in the first place, and you wouldn't know how the opposing teams would game plan to stop Lebron.

Plus, Lakers don't get Pau if Shaq never leaves. Shaq was traded for Odom and Butler, they traded Butler + scraps for Kwame Brown. They also wouldn't have been bad enough to get Bynum. They wouldn't draft Crittenton and package him with Brown to get Pau, so you can forget about Lebron having Odom, Bynum and Pau after Shaq leaves.

You simply have nothing that would back up your ridiculous claim. You can't just predict 11 Playoff runs like that.

Ether.

[Ne 1]

http://www.albany.com/byesline/check%20my%20stats2.jpg




"Muh stats!" The expression indicates a LeBron stans confusion or lack of understanding when confronted with something he cannot understand or respond to, LeBron stans mumble "muh stats!" This is usually followed by pointing at metrics created by John Hollinger and other formulas and box scores without any context or understanding of the game to justify their opinions or reasoning.

[SexSymbol]

damn aj1987 got destroyed in this thread

[aj1987]

Kobe has won more rings because his style of play has benefited his teams more. Lebron is a better floor general and since he's 6-8 with unmatched athleticism and he has about 30 pounds on Kobe, he's going to average more rebounds and assists, that's a given. It doesn't mean that Lebron's skillset nor his overall decision making is better than Kobe's. It doesn't mean he could have the same kind of success in Kobe's role. It doesn't work that way. You don't just replace players and expect them to perform the same way in a different scenario. There are too many variables for you to make that statement.
It's called a hypothetical. We've never seen LeBron on a team which is as stacked as Kobe's was when he was with Shaq. How freaking hard is that to understand?

Kobe had a player who averaged 28/14/3/4 on 56% in the PO's. Over 7 season. 35/15/3/3 on 60% in the 3 straight Finals they won. Yet, LeBron managed to make 4 straight Finals 2 of which were with an injured and out of prime Wade and ***** in Bosh. Once again, prime/peak Shaq >> prime/peak Wade + Bosh.

Going back to my original point, give LeBron the similar team which Kobe had, and he's gonna win you more rings than Kobe. LeBron is that much better than Kobe. You want results?

Elimination Game Stats – Kobe Bryant: 9 Wins, 10 Losses
97’ G5 vs. UTA – 11 PTS, 2 RBS, 2 AST, 1 STL, 0 BLK, 1 TOV, 4/14 FG, 0/6 3P, 3/3 FT
98’ G4 vs. UTA – 6 PTS, 1 RBS, 0 AST, 1 STL, 1 BLK, 3 TOV, 2/2 FG, 0/0 3P, 2/2 FT
99’ G4 vs. SAS – 16 PTS, 5 RBS, 8 AST, 0 STL, 0 BLK, 3 TOV, 7/16 FG, 1/3 3P, 1/2 FT
00’ G5 vs. SAC – 17 PTS, 2 RBS, 6 AST, 0 STL, 3 BLK, 1 TOV, 7/16 FG, 1/5 3P, 2/2 FT
00’ G7 vs. POR – 25 PTS, 11 RBS, 7 AST, 0 STL, 4 BLK, 2 TOV, 9/19 FG, 1/4 3P, 6/12 FT
02’ G6 vs. SAC – 31 PTS, 11 RBS, 5 AST, 0 STL, 0 BLK, 1 TOV, 10/20 FG, 0/0 3P, 11/11 FT
02’ G7 vs. SAC – 30 PTS, 10 RBS, 7 AST, 2 STL, 0 BLK, 0 TOV, 10/26 FG, 2/3 3P, 8/10 FT
03’ G6 vs. SAS – 20 PTS, 2 RBS, 6 AST, 1 STL, 0 BLK, 7 TOV, 9/19 FG, 2/5 3P, 0/2 FT
04’ G5 vs. DET – 24 PTS, 3 RBS, 4 AST, 1 STL, 0 BLK, 3 TOV, 7/21 FG, 0/2 3P, 10/11 FT
06’ G7 vs. PHX – 24 PTS, 4 RBS, 1 AST, 0 STL, 1 BLK, 3 TOV, 8/16 FG, 4/8 3P, 4/5 FT
07’ G5 vs. PHX – 34 PTS, 4 RBS, 1 AST, 1 STL, 0 BLK, 6 TOV, 13/33 FG, 2/8 3P, 6/7 FT
08’ G5 vs. BOS – 25 PTS, 7 RBS, 4 AST, 5 STL, 0 BLK, 6 TOV, 8/21 FG, 4/9 3P, 5/7 FT
08’ G6 vs. BOS – 22 PTS, 3 RBS, 1 AST, 1 STL, 0 BLK, 4 TOV, 7/22 FG, 3/9 3P 5/5 FT
09’ G7 vs. HOU – 14 PTS, 7 RBS, 5 AST, 3 STL, 2 BLK, 1 TOV, 4/12 FG, 1/4 3P, 5/6 FT
10’ G6 vs. BOS – 26 PTS, 11 RBS, 3 AST, 4 STL, 0 BLK, 2 TOV, 9/19 FG, 1/4 3P, 7/7 FT
10’ G7 vs. BOS – 23 PTS, 15 RBS, 2 AST, 1 STL, 0 BLK, 4 TOV, 6/24 FG, 0/6 3P, 11/15 FT
11’ G4 vs. DAL – 17 PTS, 3 RBS, 1 AST, 0 STL, 0 BLK, 5 TOV, 7/18 FG, 0/5 3P, 3/4 FT
12’ G7 vs. DEN – 17 PTS, 1 RBS, 8 AST, 0 STL, 1 BLK, 3 TOV, 7/16 FG, 2/4 3P, 1/4 FT
12’ G5 vs. OKC – 42 PTS, 5 RBS, 0 AST, 2 STL, 0 BLK, 2 TOV, 18/33 FG, 1/6 3P, 5/7 FT


Elimination Game Stats – LeBron James: 7 Wins, 6 Losses
06’ G7 vs. DET – 27 PTS, 8 RBS, 2 AST, 1 STL, 0 BLK, 3 TOV, 11/24 FG, 0/4 3P, 5/8 FT
07’ G4 vs. SAS – 24 PTS, 6 RBS, 10 AST, 0 STL, 0 BLK, 6 TOV, 10/30 FG, 2/7 3P, 2/6 FT
08’ G6 vs. BOS – 32 PTS, 12 RBS, 6 AST, 2 STL, 1 BLK, 8 TOV, 9/23 FG, 1/3 3P, 13/15 FT
08’ G7 vs. BOS – 45 PTS, 5 RBS, 6 AST, 2 STL, 0 BLK, 2 TOV, 14/29 FG, 3/11 3P, 14/19 FT
09’ G5 vs. ORL – 37 PTS, 14 RBS, 12 AST, 1 STL, 1 BLK, 4 TOV, 11/24 FG, 0/2 3P, 15/19 FT
09’ G6 vs. ORL – 25 PTS, 6 RBS, 7 AST, 0 STL, 1 BLK, 3 TOV, 8/20 FG, 2/8 3P, 2/4 FT
10’ G6 vs. BOS – 27 PTS, 19 RBS, 10 AST, 3 STL, 1 BLK, 9 TOV, 8/21 FG, 2/4 3P, 9/12 FT
11’ G6 vs. DAL – 21 PTS, 4 RBS, 6 AST, 1 STL, 1 BLK, 6 TOV, 9/15 FG, 2/5 3P, 1/4 FT
12’ G6 vs. BOS – 45 PTS, 15 RBS, 5 AST, 0 STL, 0 BLK, 4 TOV, 19/26 FG, 2/4 3P, 5/9 FT
12’ G7 vs. BOS – 31 PTS, 12 RBS, 2 AST, 1 STL, 1 BLK, 3 TOV, 9/21 FG, 1/5 3P, 12/17 FT
13’ G7 vs. IND – 32 PTS, 8 RBS, 4 AST, 2 STL, 1 BLK, 2 TOV, 8/17 FG, 1/2 3P, 15/16 FT
13’ G6 vs. SAS – 32 PTS, 10 RBS, 11 AST, 3 STL, 1 BLK, 6 TOV, 11/26 FG, 1/5 3P, 9/12 FT
13’ G7 vs. SAS – 37 PTS, 12 RBS, 4 AST, 2 STL, 0 BLK, 2 TOV, 12/23 FG, 5/10 3P, 8/8 FT

There. LeBron getting shit done. There's a reason why LeBron is a 4x MVP at age 30.

I'm out for real now. Will check back after getting home plastered.

[Ne 1]

We've never seen LeBron on a team which is as stacked as Kobe's was when he was with Shaq.

You have no clue what you're talking about. The 3-peat Lakers were not stacked. Who was the 3rd best player on those team? Rice in '00 (well Rice was the 3rd most talented, at least offensively, but not the 3rd most valuable by any stretch.) Fisher in '01? and Horry in '02? Those teams were not very talented outside of Shaq and Kobe, they had below average role players at each position outside of them. They relied HEAVILY on Shaq and Kobe as a duo. Even in the Conference Finals against Portland in 2000 the Blazers were called "too deep" due to their ridiculous depth and talent, while the Lakers were called "two deep", a reference to them having 2 stars and then a MASSIVE drop off after that to the point of NOTHING worth mentioning beyond Shaq/Kobe. Just a few solid role players who each did maybe 1 or 2 things well, and flat out couldn't do other things.
They only had 3 scorers in double digits each year and Fisher was TRASH 2 out of the title seasons. Horry hit some clutch shots, but on a game to game basis, he wasn't much of a threat. They didn't even have a legit number 3 guy, just role players after their duo. Certainly nobody else anywhere NEAR all-star caliber.

An example of a stacked team would be the 2005 Spurs, the 2005-2007 Suns, 2000 Blazers, 2002 Kings ect.

[24-Inch_Chrome]

Duncan >>>>> both. :applause:

[ImKobe]

Like I said, the whole thing about Lebron winning more in Kobe's shoes is a bunch of bs. No one knows how it would play out. Maybe a certain key player gets injured, maybe certain things do not happen. Maybe Lebron disappears in key moments (like usual) and they fall short in a lot of those years. Shaq and Kobe had their fair deal of chokes and Lebron has even more. It is what it is.

[HOoopCityJones]

Like I said, the whole thing about Lebron winning more in Kobe's shoes is a bunch of bs. No one knows how it would play out. Maybe a certain key player gets injured, maybe certain things do not happen. Maybe Lebron disappears in key moments (like usual) and they fall short in a lot of those years. Shaq and Kobe had their fair deal of chokes and Lebron has even more. It is what it is.

I know we don't wanna talk about how many Kobe would have if he played out East his entire career. :roll:

[ImKobe]

I know we don't wanna talk about how many Kobe would have if he played out East his entire career. :roll:

If he played on 60-win teams in the East, he would have no trouble making the Finals. He wouldn't need to jump ship.

Wade, Kobe, Bosh though? With a peak Kobe??? They win 2011 and 2014 because we all know how Kobe's always murdered the Spurs and peak Kobe outscored Mavs with peak Dirk after 3 quarters of basketball.

You put 06-10 Kobe on 2011 Heat and they win at least 3 titles in 4 years.

[k0kakw0rld]

in entire career 50+ win teams beatin in the playoffs vs just the 2 years kobe went to the finals and lost


2003-04 San Antonio Spurs Record: 57-25
2003-04 Minnesota Timberwolves Record: 58-24
2007-08 Denver Nuggets Record: 50-32
2007-08 Utah Jazz Record: 54-28
2007-08 San Antonio Spurs Record: 56-26


total = 5 ( 2 years )



2006-07 Detroit Pistons Record: 53-29
2010-11 Boston Celtics Record: 56-26
2010-11 Chicago Bulls Record: 62-20
2012-13 San Antonio Spurs Record: 58-24
2013-14 Indiana Pacers Record: 56-26
2014-15 Chicago Bulls Record: 50-32

total = 6 ( 12 years )



http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-M57puhp-1uo/U9uV2TQXTWI/AAAAAAAAO2c/THThMy9HRvk/s1600/the-clap-o.gif

Well LeBron faced and destroyed a 60 wins team, something Kobe can never dream to accomplish.

[Chrono90]

Lebron plays in the EAST of this era.

End thread.

[riseagainst]

Well LeBron faced and destroyed a 60 wins team, something Kobe can never dream to accomplish.

2002 Kings?

:coleman:

[kennethgriffin]

Well LeBron faced and destroyed a 60 wins team, something Kobe can never dream to accomplish.



Lol this guys a f*ckin moron


You do realize all i listed was 2 years of kobe vs lebrons whole life.

[ImKobe]

Well LeBron faced and destroyed a 60 wins team, something Kobe can never dream to accomplish.

30/11/7/2 with 0 turnovers in 52 minutes in Game 7 on the road vs a 61-21 Kings team to advance to the Finals

:no:

[Cleverness]

Lebron James just passed Kobe Bryant


http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/gallery/yes/2yllfzo.gif

[the_troof]

Well LeBron faced and destroyed a 60 wins team, something Kobe can never dream to accomplish.
lebron lost as a 60 win team twice though :roll:

[kennethgriffin]

Kobe beat multiple teams with 60+ wins before...



I'm just laughing at the fact that lebrons entire career is worth 2 losing seasons for kobe

[24-Inch_Chrome]

Duncan >>>>> both. :applause:

Still true. :applause:

[Hey Yo]

I know we don't wanna talk about how many Kobe would have if he played out East his entire career. :roll:
He had his chance but told Calipari and the Nets (plus all other teams not named the Lakers) not to draft him.

He wanted the easy way by playing with Shaq (knew Shaq was coming) and the 2nd most successful franchise in NBA history.

Kobe could have started his legacy from his rookie year instead of the first year after Shaq was traded.

[ImKobe]

He had his chance but told Calipari and the Nets (plus all other teams not named the Lakers) not to draft him.

He wanted the easy way by playing with Shaq (knew Shaq was coming) and the 2nd most successful franchise in NBA history.

Kobe could have started his legacy from his rookie year instead of the first year after Shaq was traded.

Lakers WANTED Kobe. But who wouldn't want to play in Los Angeles?? You gonna discredit him for that? How's that anything compared to Lebron leaving a 60-win team in his hometown to join his buddies in Miami? And then flipping the switch when his hometown got a nice little roster to complement him with his Miami buddies not being as good anymore?

It's not like Kobe was on that Francis type shit

https://youtu.be/_eJjfsgZIYA?t=112

[aj1987]

You have no clue what you're talking about. The 3-peat Lakers were not stacked.

'00 Finals - 38/17/2/3 on 61%
'01 Finals - 36/16/5/3 on 57%
'02 Finals - 36/12/4/3 on 60%
'04 Finals - 27/11/2/1 on 63%

Other than Pippen, name me a player who won 3 more rings with his teammate averaging that?

Or how about 30/15/3/3 over 3 PO runs?

Kobe is an AMAZING player. Doesn't change the FACT that he had the MDE next to him for practically half his career.

[ImKobe]

'00 Finals - 38/17/2/3 on 61%
'01 Finals - 36/16/5/3 on 57%
'02 Finals - 36/12/4/3 on 60%
'04 Finals - 27/11/2/1 on 63%

Other than Pippen, name me a player who won 3 more rings with his teammate averaging that?

Or how about 30/15/3/3 over 3 PO runs?

Kobe is an AMAZING player. Doesn't change the FACT that he had the MDE next to him for practically half his career.

How good was his supporting cast outside of Shaq?

Bird had Parish, McHale and a bunch of other great players, Magic had Kareem, Worthy, Scott, Cooper, Jordan had Pippen, Grant and later Rodman, Harper, Kukoc

Duncan had Parker, Manu, D-Rob, later Green, Leonard, Mills and others

Kobe had one great teammate, others had multiple great teammates that together provided the same kind of impact together....

It's a TEAM game. We know Kobe stepped it up when Shaq didn't and vice versa.

[Hey Yo]

Lakers WANTED Kobe. But who wouldn't want to play in Los Angeles?? You gonna discredit him for that
Nets wanted Kobe also, but they were told he wouldn't sign. Play for who selects you and wait until you're an UFA to play for who you want.

Playing a pro team sport is a privilege, not a right. Demanding to play for a historically successful certain team as an unproven high school kid is disrespectful to the game. Says he just wanted to play, but knew he would ride the pine right away.


How's that anything compared to Lebron leaving a 60-win team in his hometown to join his buddies in Miami? And then flipping the switch when his hometown got a nice little roster to complement him with his Miami buddies not being as good anymore?
Because LeBron took his lumps carrying shitty teams from his rookie year on. Kobe after 3 down years publically demanded a trade. James never did that.

Plus the revolving door of starters year after year in Cleveland. It been clear since FA existed that no very good to great players choose Cleveland. Plus shitty coaches in Paul Silas and Mike Brown.

If LeBron was the one being carried after "flipping the switches" then you would have a great point.[/QUOTE]

[ImKobe]

Nets wanted Kobe also, but they were told he wouldn't sign. Play for who selects you and wait until you're an UFA to play for who you want.

Playing a pro team sport is a privilege, not a right. Demanding to play for a historically successful certain team as an unproven high school kid is disrespectful to the game. Says he just wanted to play, but knew he would ride the pine right away.


Because LeBron took his lumps carrying shitty teams from his rookie year on. Kobe after 3 down years publically demanded a trade. James never did that.

Plus the revolving door of starters year after year in Cleveland. It been clear since FA existed that no very good to great players choose Cleveland. Plus shitty coaches in Paul Silas and Mike Brown.

If LeBron was the one being carried after "flipping the switches" then you would have a great point.[/QUOTE]

And how many big time FA's have joined up with Kobe in Free Agency? Pau was traded there, Howard didn't even want to go to LA but was traded there regardless for a Bynum that had played really well the season before, Nash was washed up and Lakers gave up a lot to get him in a S&T.

You could bring up Malone & GP, but they were washed up by the time they wanted to join Shaq and Kobe and weren't that productive in the end.

Ron Artest was the best Free Agent singing, and he wasn't even a star player.

Kobe was drafted and wanted to go to LA before they even signed Shaq.

And Kobe at 17 was hardly considered a big time prospect like AI was, his "home town" Philly obviously wasn't going to pick him over Iverson, and Lakers showed strong interest in him and wanted to get him, Kobe did his part to land there.

[branslowski]

OP been crushin this board with facts since 09':applause:

[kennethgriffin]

'00 Finals - 38/17/2/3 on 61%
'01 Finals - 36/16/5/3 on 57%
'02 Finals - 36/12/4/3 on 60%
'04 Finals - 27/11/2/1 on 63%

Other than Pippen, name me a player who won 3 more rings with his teammate averaging that?

Or how about 30/15/3/3 over 3 PO runs?

Kobe is an AMAZING player. Doesn't change the FACT that he had the MDE next to him for practically half his career.

Why do people still mention shaq lol


Kobe would be almost exactly the same place all time even without the 3 rings he won with that big dumb ape


Lmao

[24-Inch_Chrome]

Why do people still mention shaq lol


Kobe would be almost exactly the same place all time even without the 3 rings he won with that big dumb ape


Lmao

You're right.

11-15 range guaranteed.

[kennethgriffin]

You're right.

11-15 range guaranteed.


Lol youre dumb



Kobe without shaq accomplished more than hakeem did his entire career. A consensus top 10 player ever.

Thats all retarded kobe haters admit he is anyway.


So why harp on his rings with shaq


With him hes top 10

Without him hes top 10


So youre arguing over nothing






Now if* people gave kobe a legit ranking... then i could see the haters caring about kobes titles with shaq


But youre all dumb anyway


So its pointless hahaha

[ImKobe]

Lol youre dumb



Kobe without shaq accomplished more than hakeem did his entire career. A consensus top 10 player ever.

Thats all retarded kobe haters admit he is anyway.


So why harp on his rings with shaq


With him hes top 10

Without him hes top 10


So youre arguing over nothing






Now if* people gave kobe a legit ranking... then i could see the haters caring about kobes titles with shaq


But youre all dumb anyway


So its pointless hahaha


If people didn't try to discredit Kobe for having Shaq, he would objectively be ranked top 5 all-time. Magic, West and Shaq agree with me.

[24-Inch_Chrome]

http://www.gifsforum.com/images/gif/funny%20gifs/grand/retard-funny-gifs-eccbc87e4b5ce2fe28308fd9f2a7baf3-804.gif

:sleeping

[kennethgriffin]

Kobe haters: "we dont count the rings he had with shaq"


Kobe fans "then dont lol who cares"


Kobe haters "but he had shaq"


Lol


Kobes top 10 with or without yall accepting what he did with shaq

So just kill yourselves already

[aj1987]

How good was his supporting cast outside of Shaq?
LeBron literally had ONE year of prime Wade. '12-'14 Wade and Bosh were either injured or sucked. Not even close to being on Shaq's level. How many times do I have to say this before you Kobe tards get it?

Prime/Peak Shaq is arguably the GOAT. '00-'03 Shaq >>>>> '11-'14 Wade and Bosh. Yeah, it's not close either. People actually argue that peak Shaq (3peat) was better than PEAK MJ. A level only ~3 players have EVER reached in the history of basketball.



If people didn't try to discredit Kobe for having Shaq, he would objectively be ranked top 5 all-time. Magic, West and Shaq agree with me.
I'm just trying to prove that 2 vs 5 is an absolutely retarded argument. As I said, Kobe had prime/peak Shaq for basically half his career. One of the most (if not THE most) dominant players EVER.


Why do people still mention shaq lol

Kobe would be almost exactly the same place all time even without the 3 rings he won with that big dumb ape

Lmao
Without the "big dumb ape", Kobe would have 2 rings, 2 FMVP's, and 1 MVP. Borderline top 15.

[ShawkFactory]

Lol youre dumb



Kobe without shaq accomplished more than hakeem did his entire career. A consensus top 10 player ever.

Thats all retarded kobe haters admit he is anyway.


So why harp on his rings with shaq


With him hes top 10

Without him hes top 10


So youre arguing over nothing






Now if* people gave kobe a legit ranking... then i could see the haters caring about kobes titles with shaq


But youre all dumb anyway


So its pointless hahaha
But Hakeem was also a more dominant all-around player who just happened to have the prime of his career among some of the best dynasties and teams of all time. Let's see Kobe win a ring by himself against the 80s Celtics/Lakers/Bad boys then Jordan.

Nobody puts Hakeem top 10 all time solely because of his accolades.

[kennethgriffin]

LeBron literally had ONE year of prime Wade. '12-'14 Wade and Bosh were either injured or sucked. Not even close to being on Shaq's level. How many times do I have to say this before you Kobe tards get it?

Prime/Peak Shaq is arguably the GOAT. '00-'03 Shaq >>>>> '11-'14 Wade and Bosh. Yeah, it's not close either. People actually argue that peak Shaq (3peat) was better than PEAK MJ. A level only ~3 players have EVER reached in the history of basketball.



I'm just trying to prove that 2 vs 5 is an absolutely retarded argument. As I said, Kobe had prime/peak Shaq for basically half his career. One of the most (if not THE most) dominant players EVER.


Without the "big dumb ape", Kobe would have 2 rings, 2 FMVP's, and 1 MVP. Borderline top 15.



Youre pretty dumb

Hakeem is a consensus top 10 player all time.

2 legit rings with no other legendary player = tied
2 finals mvps = tied
1 mvp = tied
More 1st team all nbas just since 2005
More 1st team all defenses just since 2005
More starting allstar selections just since 2005
More consecutive allstar selections just since 2005
More 30,40,50,60,70,80 point games just since 2005
More allstar game mvps just since 2005
More nba records just since 2005



So even with kobes career cut in half. He trumps consensus top 10 all time legend hakeem olajuwon


You = sh*t pushed in

[kennethgriffin]

roflol@ haters taking L's all day long.


Even whining and complaining to get more than half of kobes rings taken away to make their fight even halfway entertaining. Kobes still a top 10 legend lmfao



Never seen a group of scum get thoroughly buttf*cked like this

[plowking]

Bron has as many finals MVPs as Kobe. Fair to say he is as good at leading his team to wins? Makes sense.

[TripleA]

Lebron is better than kobe you stupid dummies

[kennethgriffin]

Bron has as many finals MVPs as Kobe. Fair to say he is as good at leading his team to wins? Makes sense.


the 2nd greatest player to ever live has 2 finals mvps and 6 rings

the 3rd greatest player to ever live has 0 finals mvps and 11 rings


stop thinking that mvp's make or break someone because jordan cleaned up in the watered down 90s

[BigBoss]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DggAXSv53Qc&feature=youtu.be

[aj1987]

Youre pretty dumb

Hakeem is a consensus top 10 player all time.

2 legit rings with no other legendary player = tied
2 finals mvps = tied
1 mvp = tied
More 1st team all nbas just since 2005
More 1st team all defenses just since 2005
More starting allstar selections just since 2005
More consecutive allstar selections just since 2005
More 30,40,50,60,70,80 point games just since 2005
More allstar game mvps just since 2005
More nba records just since 2005



So even with kobes career cut in half. He trumps consensus top 10 all time legend hakeem olajuwon


You = sh*t pushed in
Hakeem was a 2x DPOY, dumb ****.

[34-24 Footwork]

Kenneth laying this thread to rest. Rose on the grave. R.I.P Kobe haters.

Nothing more embarrassing than trying to strip kobe of his titles in the early 2000's to prove a point.

Beating the Jailblazers/Sacremento Queens in 2000-2001>>>>>>beating 2012 OKC or 60 year old duncan spurs.

There's nothing that can be disputed about this.

[ImKobe]

Bron has as many finals MVPs as Kobe. Fair to say he is as good at leading his team to wins? Makes sense.

He's sitting at 1 without the Ray Allen shot

Lebron had more help from 2011-14 than Kobe did on any team without Shaq, so suck it.

[warriorfan]

Kenneth laying this thread to rest. Rose on the grave. R.I.P Kobe haters.

Nothing more embarrassing than trying to strip kobe of his titles in the early 2000's to prove a point.

Beating the Jailblazers/Sacremento Queens in 2000-2001>>>>>>beating 2012 OKC or 60 year old duncan spurs.

There's nothing that can be disputed about this.



What up homie, what happened to your Grizz > GS prediction?

[34-24 Footwork]

What up homie, what happened to your Grizz > GS prediction?

I was wrong:confusedshrug:

[Ne 1]

Bron has as many finals MVPs as Kobe. Fair to say he is as good at leading his team to wins? Makes sense.
:oldlol: The emphasis some people put on Finals MVP is ridiculous. It's honestly a pretty useless award.Plenty of non-elite players have won it (Cedric Maxwell, Joe Dumars, James Worthy, Chauncey Billups, Tony Parker, Paul Pierce and Kawhi Leonard have all won FMVP. Even John freaking Starks was literally 1 shot away from winning Finals MVP. The NBA should make it defunct and create a Playoffs MVP award. 16-28 game sample size > 4-7.

[Ne 1]

Nets wanted Kobe also, but they were told he wouldn't sign.

If Calipari wanted to draft Kobe, he could have. Period. Not Kobe's fault, an unproven teenager that he has no spine and didn't just stick to his guns and call Jerry West's bluff. Kobe has said himself about this matter that he would have played anywhere, that he was 17 and just wanted to play in the NBA.

[toxicxr6]

the 2nd greatest player to ever live has 2 finals mvps and 6 rings

the 3rd greatest player to ever live has 0 finals mvps and 11 rings


stop thinking that mvp's make or break someone because jordan cleaned up in the watered down 90s



Lol this guy is retarded beyond belief.. Calling out a player for not have fmvps when the award didn't even exist yet :facepalm

Then trying to use hakeem to prop your boy up.. Hakeem had 10 times the defensive impact that Kobe had.. And defense is an extremely important factor in ranking players.. Only kobtards ignore this

Without shaq.. Kobe wouldn't even sniff top 10.. Probably top 20-30

Kobe has just one mvp.. I'm sorry but Kobe was considered the best player in only a single season.. That's it

Kobe only won rings with the best big men in the league.. He never was the clear best player on a championship.. It was virtually a coin toss who was fmvp between gasol and Kobe



The funny thing is now your paranoid about lebron kenneth.. Your exposed bro... Looking behind you at what's coming.. All while Duncan has already left Kobe in the dust

[red1]

Kobe is top 7-8. Right in that shaq and duncan tier. Lbj when he is done will rank higher than magic and bird and will finish as the 2nd GOAT.