We will we ever great Big Men in the NBA again?

[e's Nikees]

We all know it's a guard league now but remember when we had shaq being so dominant and then we had Malones of the NBA, we had Hakeem Olajuwon we always had great big man even Chris Webber... I am missing a few names but will we ever see that dominant center and the NBA again?

[Nash]

league is too skilled for clumsy big men to bully themselves to points.

[ImKobe]

Of course we will. Shaq, Hakeem, Moses, Duncan were once in a generation type players and the game's changed quite a bit.

Davis is the closest thing though, but he's not a true C.

[scm5]

We all know it's a guard league now but remember when we had shaq being so dominant and then we had Malones of the NBA, we had Hakeem Olajuwon we always had great big man even Chris Webber... I am missing a few names but will we ever see that dominant center and the NBA again?

Anthony Davis. The Pelicans had no business being in the playoffs in the West, yet they're there because of how dominant this kid is.

[Showtime80']

Unfortunately NO! Kids stopped wanting to develop post games around the mid 90's in favor of the "sexier" "flashier" perimeter facing the basket style.

That's why modern offenses seem so unbalanced and stale. When 12 players on the floor are thinking layups or 3 pointers without even taking into consideration the fast break, mid range or post game that's what your going to get. There is no variation in today's league, feast or famine is the norm. All this 3 point shooting and still the Eastern Conference remains pathetic offensively and maybe 3 or 4 teams can even score above 105 points consistently.

The inside game is an art form that is probably the hardest to develop, that's why throughout history you probably had 20 great perimeter players for every 1 or 2 truly great big dominant center. Today you just don't find any.

How do you tell a present day 15 year old who's 6'8 and likes to play the game like Chris Paul or Russell Dumbrook, has 4 million views on YouTube and everybody under the sun telling them how awesome they are to lock himself in a bedroom, study tapes of Kevin McHale, Olajuwon, Moses and Kareem and don't come back to the gym until he's mastered at least 3 go to post moves?!? YOU CAN'T!!!

That's the NBA's predicament right now and I don't see any change. Expect the league to put in a 4 or a 5 point shot in the not so distant future to further dissuade ANYBODY from ever thinking of developing a dominant post game.

[ClipperRevival]

Of course we will. Basketball is basketball. As long as the rim is 10 feet high, there will always be value in height, length and size. The greatest impact player in the game is a two way big who can dominate in the post on offense and protect the rim on D.

[Fallen Angel]

I love that people still try their best to discredit Dwight Howard.

All-Time great rim protector
All-Time great rebounder
Averages 18 ppg throughout the regular season for his career
Averages 20 ppg on 60% shooting in the playoffs for his career

Does your soul burn that much?

[Blue&Orange]

league is too skilled for clumsy big men to bully themselves to points.
this is hilarious because this idiot is a lebronstan and that

[Marchesk]

All-Time great rim protector

At 2.1 blocks per game for his career? No.


All-Time great rebounder

Wilt, Russell, Rodman, M. Malone say hi, but he might be up there. He has led the league 5 times.


Averages 18 ppg throughout the regular season for his career
Averages 20 ppg on 60% shooting in the playoffs for his career

That's good, but it's not all-time great for a big.

[kshutts1]

We all know it's a guard league now but remember when we had shaq being so dominant and then we had Malones of the NBA, we had Hakeem Olajuwon we always had great big man even Chris Webber... I am missing a few names but will we ever see that dominant center and the NBA again?
:roll:

[kshutts1]

At 2.1 blocks per game for his career? No.



Wilt, Russell, Rodman, M. Malone say hi, but he might be up there. He has led the league 5 times.



That's good, but it's not all-time great for a big.
We both know that blocks don't tell the whole story, and I would argue that Dwight is an all-time great rim protector. That doesn't mean top 10, much less top 5, but he is an all-time great.

Big Ben
Mutombo
Duncan
KG?
Zo?
Ewing
Robinson
Hakeem
Eaton
Kareem
Thurmond
Russell
Wilt

Who else is clearly above Dwight? I am sure I forgot a few names, but regardless, when you're in discussion for top 15 or top 20, I think it's safe to say that you're an all-time great.

[Fallen Angel]

Apparently this dude thinks Serge Ibaka is a better rim protector than Dwight.

Kek'd

[Blue&Orange]

I love that people still try their best to discredit Dwight Howard.

All-Time great rim protector
All-Time great rebounder
Averages 18 ppg throughout the regular season for his career
Averages 20 ppg on 60% shooting in the playoffs for his career

Does your soul burn that much?
bona fide scrub. exposed in LA, exposed in houston. HE even averages that much for the same reason Amare had an MVP season with D'Antoni, SVG or Pringles lite, 4 guys all the time, all the ****ing time, behind the 3pt line and Howard\Amare only ones inside the 3pt line with all the spacing of the ****ing world.

I can only image then numbers that the talented bigs of the past would put up on a similar offensive scheme.

[3ball]

[QUOTE=Blue&Orange]this is hilarious because this idiot is a lebronstan and that

[3ball]

:roll:
:roll:

[3ball]

.
The stats clearly prove that previous era bigs would score easier on the post than today's bigs.

The top 5 big men in post efficiency (points-per-possession, PPP) are Jonas Valcunious, Kevin Love, Donatas Montejunas, Lamarcus Aldridge, and Marc Gasol.

http://stats.nba.com/playtype/#!/post-up/?dir=1&sort=PPP&CF=Poss*GE*200&Season=2014-15&SeasonType=Regular%20Season

All these guys achieve the standard for elite efficiency of 1.00 PPP, despite having weak post games.. This proves how much the superior bigs of previous would dominate today's game - all the bigs listed below from 1996 were better post scorers than today's top 5, so they'd ALSO be getting elite post PPP.. And clearly, today's top 5 wouldn't even be in the top 10 if these guys were playing:

Hakeem
Shaq
Robinson
Ewing
Alonzo
Sabonis
Karl Malone
Barkley
Webber
Kemp

And probably Rik Smits, Vin Baker, Dino Radja, and certainly Derrick Coleman.

The league changed the rules in 2005 to increase the percentages on ball movement and dribble penetration, which have surpassed post-ups.. But the percentages on post-ups themselves haven't diminished at all, as proven by the elite post percentages of today's bigs, which only demonstrates how much the superior bigs of previous eras would dominate today.

[TripleA]

Shut up webber was choker who scared to go into the paint so he shot jumpers.

[Lensanity]

Two words: Alex Len

[3ball]

Will we ever see great Big Men in the NBA again?



Probably not OP, even though today's post player faces LESS defenders on the strongside because the spacing (weakside floor-spreaders) take defenders away from the strongside - the only reason Joakim Noah must strongside flood in the picture below is because floor-spreaders on the weakside (including #20 Mosgov) have drawn all but 2 defenders away from the strongside:


http://i61.tinypic.com/2z7mnvm.png



But in previous eras, all 5 defenders typically stayed on the strongside because there were no weakside floor-spreaders to draw them away.. Gimmick scrambling schemes like Joakim Noah's strongside flood simply weren't necessary in previous eras when spacing didn't exist to draw defenders away from the strongside.


http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/54cd4db17a9330ca58b8e33a0b6f9b2f.gif


Today's player faces less defenders on the strongside than previous eras due to spacing and weakside floor-spreaders that draw defenders away from the strongside.. Today's player never faces a strongside with all 5 defenders on it (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11128077&postcount=21) because weakside spacing ensures a more porous distribution of strongside defenders.

Accordingly, the stats of today's players should be downgraded appropriately, particularly the paint and at-rim efficiencies that benefited from the porous strongside defense.. It should also be noted that the porous spacing also allows today's players to take longer with decisions and get away with a weaker, less sophisticated level of isolation ability (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=375397).

[TripleA]

Nice opinions not facts.

[3ball]

Nice


It's a 100% fact that today's player has spacing and weakside floor-spreaders that take defenders away from the strongside.

It's a fact that previous eras didn't have spacing or weakside floor-spreaders, and accordingly, faced more defenders on the strongside.

It's a fact that previous eras frequently faced a strongside with all 5 defenders on it (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11128077&postcount=21), something today's player never faces.

[TripleA]

It's a 100% fact that today's player has spacing and weakside floor-spreaders that take defenders away from the strongside.

It's a fact that previous eras didn't have spacing or weakside floor-spreaders, and accordingly, faced more defenders on the strongside.

It's a fact that previous eras frequently faced a strongside with all 5 defenders on it (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11128077&postcount=21), something today's player never faces.

Its also fact that MJ is 1-9 without pippen. Yah but it also fact that assertions today big men are worse are opinions

[TripleA]

Brickball is shook right now. He scared :basketball