Look how Norway is taking care of mass murderer Anders Breivik

[Nick Young]

Interesting to see how the Norwegian tax payers choose to spend their money!
Breivik is currently petitioning his prison for better video games in his room. Because the max sentence in Norway is 21 years, in about 17 years of video games, Breivik will be free! Until then, here is what he must suffer through.

Fact.

http://img.timeinc.net/time/photoessays/2010/prison_norway/prison5.jpg

The maximum sentence in Norway, even for murder, is 21 years. Since most inmates will eventually return to society, prisons mimic the outside world as much as possible to prepare them for freedom. At Halden, rooms include en-suite bathrooms with ceramic tiles, mini-fridges and flat-screen TVs. Officials say sleeker televisions afford inmates less space to hide drugs and other contraband.


http://img.timeinc.net/time/photoessays/2010/prison_norway/prison3.jpg

Every 10 to 12 cells share a kitchen and living room, where prisoners prepare their evening meals and relax after a day of work. None of the windows at Halden have bars. Photo taken 2010.


http://img.timeinc.net/time/photoessays/2010/prison_norway/prison7.jpg

Security guards organize activities from 8:00 in the morning until 8:00 in the evening. It's a chance for inmates to pick up a new hobby, but it's also a part of the prison's dynamic security strategy: occupied prisoners are less likely to lash out at guards and one another. Inmates can shoot hoops on this basketball court, which absorbs falls on impact, and make use of a rock-climbing wall, jogging trails and a soccer field. Photo taken 2010.

http://img.timeinc.net/time/photoessays/2010/prison_norway/prison14.jpg

There's also a recording studio with a professional mixing board. In-house music teachers — who refer to the inmates as "pupils," never "prisoners" — work with their charges on piano, guitar, bongos and more. Three members of Halden's security-guard chorus recently competed on Norway's version of American Idol. They hope to produce the prison's first musical — starring inmates — later this year.

http://img.timeinc.net/time/photoessays/2010/prison_norway/prison15.jpg

Halden's architects preserved trees across the 75-acre site to obscure the 20-ft.-high security wall that surrounds the perimeter, in order to minimize the institutional feel and, in the words of one architect, to "let the inmates see all of the seasons." Benches and stone chessboards dot this jogging trail. Photo taken 2010.

http://img.timeinc.net/time/photoessays/2010/prison_norway/prison8.jpg

Norway's prison guards undergo two years of training at an officers' academy and enjoy an elevated status compared with their peers in the U.S. and Britain. Their official job description says they must motivate the inmate "so that his sentence is as meaningful, enlightening and rehabilitating as possible," so they frequently eat meals and play sports with prisoners. At Halden, half of all guards are female, which its governor believes reduces tension and encourages good behavior. Photo taken 2010.

http://img.timeinc.net/time/photoessays/2010/prison_norway/prison4.jpg

Norwegian inmates lose their right to freedom but not to state services like health care. Dentists, doctors, nurses and even librarians work in the local municipality, preventing a subpar prison standard from developing. On-site, Halden boasts a small hospital and this state-of-the-art dentist's office.

http://img.timeinc.net/time/photoessays/2010/prison_norway/prison10.jpg

To help inmates develop routines and to reduce the monotony of confinement, designers spread Halden's living quarters, work areas and activity centers across the prison grounds. In this "kitchen laboratory," inmates learn the basics of nutrition and cooking. On a recent afternoon, homemade orange sorbet and slices of tropical fruit lined the table. Prisoners can take courses that will prepare them for careers as caterers, chefs and waiters.




http://content.time.com/time/photogallery/0,29307,1989083_2137368,00.html

I wish America was more like Scandanavia!
Norway da bess

[outbreak]

They didn't build the prison just for him. While he should be punished in general the system in alot of countries in that area actually focus on rehabilitation instead of punishment. They have one of the lowest re offending rates i think.

That being said this guy doesn't deserve that system and for me is a perfect case for the death penalty

[Giaodollo]

They didn't build the prison just for him. While he should be punished in general the system in alot of countries in that area actually focus on rehabilitation instead of punishment. They have one of the lowest re offending rates i think.

That being said this guy doesn't deserve that system and for me is a perfect case for the death penalty

The same system is in effect in Sweden, where we focus on rehabilitation, at times I do get angry over the minuscule punishment some violent offenders get, but I am actually impressed by the repeat offender statistic, at this time the rehabilitation route seems to work better than treating prisoners like animals.

US is one of the countries that really should look in to this, mostly because of the fact that like 700 per 100 000 is in prison. A lot of burden considering they are likely to be incarcerated again.
In US 52 % of prisoners are back there within 10 years.

[Akrazotile]

The same system is in effect in Sweden, where we focus on rehabilitation, at times I do get angry over the minuscule punishment some violent offenders get, but I am actually impressed by the repeat offender statistic, at this time the rehabilitation route seems to work better than treating prisoners like animals.

US is one of the countries that really should look in to this, mostly because of the fact that like 700 per 100 000 is in prison. A lot of burden considering they are likely to be incarcerated again.
In US 52 % of prisoners are back there within 10 years.



:roll:

[oarabbus]

Tbh it makes me sick how comfortable and cozy his life is after murdering innocents

[Nick Young]

Tbh it makes me sick how comfortable and cozy his life is after murdering innocents
and he'll be walking free after 18 years in this cozy ensuite room playing video games, working out in the gym and eating orange sorbet.:lol

[Nick Young]

The same system is in effect in Sweden, where we focus on rehabilitation, at times I do get angry over the minuscule punishment some violent offenders get, but I am actually impressed by the repeat offender statistic, at this time the rehabilitation route seems to work better than treating prisoners like animals.

US is one of the countries that really should look in to this, mostly because of the fact that like 700 per 100 000 is in prison. A lot of burden considering they are likely to be incarcerated again.
In US 52 % of prisoners are back there within 10 years.
http://collegetimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/Ricky-Gervais-Cracking-Up-On-Sofa.gif

[daily]

Looks like somebody put bars on a IKEA store and called it prison

I'll have the meatballs and smoke salmon please

[TheMarkMadsen]

holy shit you might as well just murder somebody if you're homeless so that you can get yourself a dope condo with a LG flat screen and a ps4

:biggums: :biggums:

[ace23]

I just saw this on reddit. Literally just clicked on the link.

Anyway, I'd read about and seen the conditions of the prison before. Wouldn't mind doing a bid there. Heard homie got a PS2 and sofa in his room.

[KingBeasley08]

holy shit you might as well just murder somebody if you're homeless so that you can get yourself a dope condo with a LG flat screen and a ps4

:biggums: :biggums:
for real? damn if I ever start to fall on tough times, I'm gonna do all I can to get Norwegian citizenship and make sure I do something to get my ass in prison there :biggums:

[Nick Young]

holy shit you might as well just murder somebody if you're homeless so that you can get yourself a dope condo with a LG flat screen and a ps4

:biggums: :biggums:
Some immigrants and refuges in Scandanavia commit crimes and go to prison on purpose because a prison sentence there is basically a free luxury holiday with no repercussions once you get out. Very easy system to exploit.

[outbreak]

The same system is in effect in Sweden, where we focus on rehabilitation, at times I do get angry over the minuscule punishment some violent offenders get, but I am actually impressed by the repeat offender statistic, at this time the rehabilitation route seems to work better than treating prisoners like animals.

US is one of the countries that really should look in to this, mostly because of the fact that like 700 per 100 000 is in prison. A lot of burden considering they are likely to be incarcerated again.
In US 52 % of prisoners are back there within 10 years.
Totally agree with this. It makes more sense to have prisons like this for small offences or youth offenders. They have a problem now because the amount of prisoners is too large and it should have been done decades ago. There's no point sending a kid to an american prison for a minor crime as he will just come out a fully trained criminal. Some of the euro prisons actually teach people how to live in a community and skills they need when they are released. It'd be hard to implement on the us's scale now though.

[outbreak]

Some immigrants and refuges in Scandanavia commit crimes and go to prison on purpose because a prison sentence there is basically a free luxury holiday with no repercussions once you get out. Very easy system to exploit.

you realise this happens in america too? There's also people in the states who commit crimes just to get the health care.

[Giaodollo]

Nick Young has been on shitty shitty

Shitty

Shitty


Shitty vacations if that's what he equates to a vacation


How bad is this man's normal life that he looks up to this lifestyle
:oldlol:

A TV, a bed, and possibility to exercise is in his mind not only a vacation, but a luxury vacation. I've been to hostels with more accommodations.


Some immigrants and refuges in Scandanavia commit crimes and go to prison on purpose because a prison sentence there is basically a free luxury holiday with no repercussions once you get out. Very easy system to exploit.

That sounds like nothing I ever heard off, you can go on welfare and do whatever you want whenever you want instead of being locked up, where do you get all this nonsense from anyway?

The repercussions is that you'll most likely as a former convict never be able to work near children, security (police, army, or regular security) and other shit.

[KingBeasley08]

Totally agree with this. It makes more sense to have prisons like this for small offences or youth offenders. They have a problem now because the amount of prisoners is too large and it should have been done decades ago. There's no point sending a kid to an american prison for a minor crime as he will just come out a fully trained criminal. Some of the euro prisons actually teach people how to live in a community and skills they need when they are released. It'd be hard to implement on the us's scale now though.
I actually agree with this to an extent. I got no problem with the way the US treats violent offenders. The problem is we treat nonviolent criminals in a similar way and turn them into hardened criminals by the time they get out.

That doesn't change the fact that Norway's system is ridiculous. People need to stop criticizing the US every time their country gets called out. Our system not being perfect doesn't change the fact that people and criminals can easily abuse Norway's system

[Nick Young]

Nick Young has been on shitty shitty

Shitty

Shitty


Shitty vacations if that's what he equates to a vacation


How bad is this man's normal life that he looks up to this lifestyle
To a dude from Somalia who just escaped a civil war-that free stay in Norwegian prison is looking pretty luxurious.

I have been on shit vacations for most of my life growing up too :banana: Not everyone has rich parents:cry:

[kurple]

and he'll be walking free after 18 years in this cozy ensuite room playing video games, working out in the gym and eating orange sorbet.:lol
dude, come on. you cant be that stupid

Breivik aint walking free in 18 years. the maximum sentence is 21 years, but it can be extended eternaly

most convicts get the pleasure of playing video games, and even go on fieldtrips.. but Breivik has more security and less priveleges. i do however think he's got access to internet (as was negotiated when he was captured)

what they should have done was give him an windows95 and no internet, how long can you play pinball before going crazy?

[Nick Young]

\
That sounds like nothing I ever heard off, you can go on welfare and do whatever you want whenever you want instead of being locked up, where do you get all this nonsense from anyway?

From the Somalian friends I have who grew up in Norway.

[kurple]

While I don't agree with the maximum sentence being 21 years

Everything else is good
maximum sentence is 21 years, but it can and will be extended until dead

[Nick Young]

:oldlol:

A TV, a bed, and possibility to exercise is in his mind not only a vacation, but a luxury vacation. I've been to hostels with more accommodations.



Not everyone is rich and lives in a welfare state that pays for all their shit, breh.

[Nick Young]

maximum sentence is 21 years, but it can and will be extended until dead
A life of endless orange sorbet and counter strike in a heated room, with access to a state of the art music recording studio.

Are you happy that your money is going towards paying for that lifestyle for Breivik?

[Giaodollo]

maximum sentence is 21 years, but it can and will be extended until dead

Yea sounds like Sweden then, our max sentance is 18 but Leif Axmyr has been there for 32 years now with no appeals going through, and all he did was kill two people as opposed to ABB who killed a million children

[outbreak]

From the Somalian friends I have who grew up in Norway.

Who would be deported if they tried that shit, unless they'd already lived there awhile in which case the argument becomes irrelevant because they are no longer living in Somalian conditions

[kurple]

From the Somalian friends I have who grew up in Norway.
most somalians in norway just exploit the welfare system and gets more money than many workingclass norwegian make

why would they go to prison? they can afford a PS3 if they really want one

[outbreak]

Yea sounds like Sweden then, our max sentance is 18 but Leif Axmyr has been there for 32 years now with no appeals going through, and all he did was kill two people as opposed to ABB who killed a million children
People miss this in most other systems too, most serious crimes get sentences where they don't have to release them until they think they are rehabilitated, they can keep adding on.

[Giaodollo]

most somalians in norway just exploit the welfare system and gets more money than many workingclass norwegian make

why would they go to prison? they can afford a PS3 if they really want one

Yup, basically this.

[LJJ]

It's a weird system. Punishment and retribution is almost completely taken out of the equation.

"Oh you viciously assaulted and raped a 15 year old girl? Well, you were raised by the wrong parents and you hadn't had sex for a couple of months. It's natural really. As long as you promise you won't do it again no reason to put you in prison." That's how their justice system works.

It completely devalues the victim if you ask me.

[kurple]

A life of endless orange sorbet and counter strike in a heated room, with access to a state of the art music recording studio.

Are you happy that your money is going towards paying for that lifestyle for Breivik?
i've got plenty of money and so does almost every other norwegian. hate people complaining about taxes

sure i wouldnt mind it if breivik was cemented in the ground for everyone to shit or piss on. but i like the norwegian system, and think its a much better system for all the other prisoners in this country. And it wouldnt be fair for Breivik to **** up their lives. And you cant just go around executing people if its illegal. Need to stick to the laws already there if you wanna be taken serious

[kurple]

It's a weird system. Punishment and retribution is almost completely taken out of the equation.

"Oh you viciously assaulted and raped a 15 year old girl? Well, you were raised by the wrong parents and you hadn't had sex for a couple of months. It's natural really. As long as you promise you won't do it again no reason to put you in prison." That's how their justice system works.

It completely devalues the victim if you ask me.
:biggums:

[outbreak]

It's a weird system. Punishment and retribution is almost completely taken out of the equation.

"Oh you viciously assaulted and raped a 15 year old girl? Well, you were raised by the wrong parents and you hadn't had sex for a couple of months. It's natural really. As long as you promise you won't do it again no reason to put you in prison." That's how their justice system works.

It completely devalues the victim if you ask me.

A system shouldn't be based on revenge though, it should be based around re educating these people in to contributing members of society where possible. If it's not possible they'll still be stuck locked up away from society where everything they do is restricted. Amercia's problems arise from that fact that a large portion of their prison population don't see prison as a punishment either because they have connections and friends in there who just set them up for their release. They know they can do the time so they do it then get out and keep the same life style. Who's that helping? The euro system could be harsher on people who will clearly never be rehabilitated but on the whole it works better albeit on a smaller scale.

[Nick Young]

Who would be deported if they tried that shit, unless they'd already lived there awhile in which case the argument becomes irrelevant because they are no longer living in Somalian conditions
Nope. Norway won't deport refuges who they turn in to citizens. Try again breh.

[kurple]

A system shouldn't be based on revenge though, it should be based around re educating these people in to contributing members of society where possible. If it's not possible they'll still be stuck locked up away from society where everything they do is restricted. Amercia's problems arise from that fact that a large portion of their prison population don't see prison as a punishment either because they have connections and friends in there who just set them up for their release. They know they can do the time so they do it then get out and keep the same life style. Who's that helping? The euro system could be harsher on people who will clearly never be rehabilitated but on the whole it works better albeit on a smaller scale.
:applause:

[Nick Young]

i've got plenty of money and so does almost every other norwegian. hate people complaining about taxes

sure i wouldnt mind it if breivik was cemented in the ground for everyone to shit or piss on. but i like the norwegian system, and think its a much better system for all the other prisoners in this country. And it wouldnt be fair for Breivik to **** up their lives. And you cant just go around executing people if its illegal. Need to stick to the laws already there if you wanna be taken serious
Your oil money isn't going to last forever breh. Interesting to see how Norway is choosing to invest it:lol

[kurple]

Your oil money isn't going to last forever breh. Interesting to see how Norway is choosing to invest it:lol
agreed

but i have faith in the people in charge

[Nick Young]

A system shouldn't be based on revenge though, it should be based around re educating these people in to contributing members of society where possible. If it's not possible they'll still be stuck locked up away from society where everything they do is restricted. Amercia's problems arise from that fact that a large portion of their prison population don't see prison as a punishment either because they have connections and friends in there who just set them up for their release. They know they can do the time so they do it then get out and keep the same life style. Who's that helping? The euro system could be harsher on people who will clearly never be rehabilitated but on the whole it works better albeit on a smaller scale.
Eye for an eye, son. Get your Charmin soft second year philosophy degree mentality out of here son.

[outbreak]

Nope. Norway won't deport refuges who they turn in to citizens. Try again breh.
Well their immigration website has rules about requiring a permanent residence and job and guidelines on how long they have to have lived there before being able to become a citizen. So it's not like people just go there commit crimes then stay in their prisons. They go there, get housing, get a job, get settled, then commit crimes to go to a nice looking prison where they restrict your freedom and dictate your life? Seems legit.

[outbreak]

Your oil money isn't going to last forever breh. Interesting to see how Norway is choosing to invest it:lol
America spends more on prisoners who keep coming and going than european countries do on rehabilitating prisoners in nice prisons.

[outbreak]

Eye for an eye, son. Get your Charmin soft second year philosophy degree mentality out of here son.
Your an ignorant idiot. No idea why I'm even bothering to post with you as time and time again you post stupid shit with out having any knowledge on the subject. You know almost as little as you do about basketball.

[daily]

Your an ignorant idiot. No idea why I'm even bothering to post with you as time and time again you post stupid shit with out having any knowledge on the subject. You know almost as little as you do about basketball.

I don't know why you do it either. I just ignore guys like him and Godzuki

[outbreak]

I don't know why you do it either. I just ignore guys like him and Godzuki
I had him on ignore but for some reason my ignore list emptied itself recently.

[daily]

I had him on ignore but for some reason my ignore list emptied itself recently.Reload. I'll cover you :lol

[LJJ]

A system shouldn't be based on revenge though, it should be based around re educating these people in to contributing members of society where possible. If it's not possible they'll still be stuck locked up away from society where everything they do is restricted. Amercia's problems arise from that fact that a large portion of their prison population don't see prison as a punishment either because they have connections and friends in there who just set them up for their release. They know they can do the time so they do it then get out and keep the same life style. Who's that helping? The euro system could be harsher on people who will clearly never be rehabilitated but on the whole it works better albeit on a smaller scale.

Funny, I think it should be based on justice. Justice should include some fore of penance and responsibility for the crime. Serving a couple of months in a closed play center for a violent rape is not justice.

[~primetime~]

He should be put to death. Not sure why anyone would be interested in salvaging his life or spending thousands of dollars to help him.

Truly pitiful and disgusting system

Can you imagine if the man killed your family, and then was sent to a fckin retirement home of video games?

[ThePhantomCreep]

Dude is not walking free in 21 years.

http://www.thejournal.ie/21-years-breivik-trial-sentence-norway-570722-Aug2012/

[JEFFERSON MONEY]

.. So if retribution, rehabilitation, and recompense were players on an NBA squad, how much ppg out of 100 should each contribute?

[iamgine]

Anders Behring Breivik suffers a mental condition of paranoid schizophrenia.

He was not responsible for his action.

I for one am glad he will be getting a relatively nice life behind bars. It's so fitting because while he's innocent, his illness means he can't be allowed back into society.

[Akrazotile]

i've got plenty of money and so does almost every other norwegian. hate people complaining about taxes

sure i wouldnt mind it if breivik was cemented in the ground for everyone to shit or piss on. but i like the norwegian system, and think its a much better system for all the other prisoners in this country. And it wouldnt be fair for Breivik to **** up their lives. And you cant just go around executing people if its illegal. Need to stick to the laws already there if you wanna be taken serious


This rehabilitation angle might be fine if this was some guy who robbed a store or stole a car.

This person murdered over a dozen random people. There's no reason to allow him to live. Aren't Norway supposed to be atheists?

What is the justification for spending money on this guy? If you believe we are just an organized group of animals evolved from monkeys, how exactly do you justify sacrificing your own resources out of irrational pity for a stranger who murdered 12 of your fellow citizens?

Like I don't understand. If you believed in God and all life being holy - and I'm not saying whether you should or shouldn't - but at least you'd be consistent. The extreme hypersensitivity of atheist liberal moralists is very confusing to me. It seems completely arbitrary, and based on little more than showing off to your fellow countrymen and neighboring countries how "advanced" you are in letting criminals, immigrants, religious extremists etc take advantage of you.


Oooh, how cool and progressive. You're like, "above" exercising authority. So advanced. So intellectual.

[tomtucker]

this why muslims flok to the scandinavien countries......eh, just one of the reasons, free housing, free money, free child support, free healthcare...to take care of their inbred criminal offspring

[Akrazotile]

this why muslims flok to the scandinavien countries......eh, just one of the reasons, free housing, free money, free child support, free healthcare...to take care of their inbred criminal offspring


This goes back to that thread about hipsters.

Liberals/Hipsters think its cool to be a doormat. It's like their "hey look at me and how smart/edgy I must be if I'm doing this" thing.

It's really unreal how bad it's getting. Testicles are literally disappearing off men left and right. Dudes trying to find their identity by being whiney, groveling, insecure, accommodationist, oversensitive f@ggots. They actually think this makes them "cool."


I tried to make a thread exploring the mindset of these dudes but this website full of dummies didn't want to discuss anything meaningful.

[tomtucker]

This goes back to that thread about hipsters.

Liberals/Hipsters think its cool to be a doormat. It's like their "hey look at me and how smart/edgy I must be if I'm doing this" thing.

It's really unreal how bad it's getting. Testicles are literally disappearing off men left and right. Dudes trying to find their identity by being whiney, groveling, insecure, accommodationist, oversensitive f@ggots. They actually think this makes them "cool."


I tried to make a thread exploring the mindset of these dudes but this website full of dummies didn't want to discuss anything meaningful.

yes, and then factor in all the women who cry about equality, and who wants to emasculate men.....still, they are the ones (many female eu politicians) who love to let immigrants into their countries, even though muslims suppress women, and see them (western girls) as whores........it's fukking stupid and contradicting

[pastis]

in germany we have the same system. its also based on rehabiltation not on punishment. the goal ist to rehabilitate the prisoner with psychologist and psychiatrist etc. and hoping that one day he can live normally in the society again. In germany "life" sentence is about 15 years.

but i have never heard about a prison like breiviks one in germany.
my cousin is working in a prison and they do have a television, playstation, swimming pools, football field, basketball field, muscle gym, library etc. but they have to buy the tv and playstation by their own. and the jail cell isnt that roomy stylish :lol

but all in all: the same system like in norway or sweden, france etc.

i think you cant teach "our" system to the americans. they just cant understand that. especially in the south. for them prison is to punish. no matter that the guy was maybe just 18 and had a difficult youth and was myabe under influence of a person or a drug what ever. if he kills someone he hast to be his rest of his life in prison....:facepalm

[dunksby]

Another thread where Lopez posts stupid recycled shit he read on reddit.

[iamgine]

in germany we have the same system. its also based on rehabiltation not on punishment. the goal ist to rehabilitate the prisoner with psychologist and psychiatrist etc. and hoping that one day he can live normally in the society again. In germany "life" sentence is about 15 years.

but i have never heard about a prison like breiviks one in germany.
my cousin is working in a prison and they do have a television, playstation, swimming pools, football field, basketball field, muscle gym, library etc. but they have to buy the tv and playstation by their own. and the jail cell isnt that roomy stylish :lol

but all in all: the same system like in norway or sweden, france etc.

i think you cant teach "our" system to the americans. they just cant understand that. especially in the south. for them prison is to punish. no matter that the guy was maybe just 18 and had a difficult youth and was myabe under influence of a person or a drug what ever. if he kills someone he hast to be his rest of his life in prison....:facepalm
Not necessarily just to punish...also to deter crime and deter criminals from repeating.

If I know how horrible prison is then certainly I don't want to go there or go back again.

They are doing this hand chopping thing in Arab for people who steal and I don't think there's been many stealing cases.

The success of this system is arguable due to corrupt people but to me the logic is sound.

[pastis]

Not necessarily just to punish...also to deter crime and deter criminals from repeating.

If I know how horrible prison is then certainly I don't want to go there or go back again.

They are doing this hand chopping thing in Arab for people who steal and I don't think there's been many stealing cases.

The success of this system is arguable due to corrupt people but to me the logic is sound.

well, if the us system is so good, why the criminality rate is so much much much higher in the us than in german, norway, sweden etc? why? epecially hard crimes like murder, robbery etc. explain me! i dont think that any statistic proves that the us system is "better" than "our" system.
in the usa the murder rate is nearly 6 times higher than in germany, the rape rate is 3x times higher than in germany. violent crime is 6 times higher than in germany. car theft is 18x higher than in germany. murder commited by youth is 16x higher than in germany. rates always per million habitants
explain

[Eric Cartman]

Well, if you feel like you have to murder someone, or a dozen people, Norway seems like the best place to do it.

Much better than in Russia, USA, or China.

Norway will learn eventually, along with other Scandinavian countries, just gotta give them some time for their liberal tendencies to fade away and become a more conservative country.

[iamgine]

well, if the us system is so good, why the criminality rate is so much much much higher in the us than in german, norway, sweden etc? why? epecially hard crimes like murder, robbery etc. explain me! i dont think that any statistic proves that the us system is "better" than "our" system.
in the usa the murder rate is nearly 6 times higher than in germany, the rape rate is 3x times higher than in germany. violent crime is 6 times higher than in germany. car theft is 18x higher than in germany. murder commited by youth is 16x higher than in germany. rates always per million habitants
explain
No one says it's so good. :biggums:

Gun control, culture and welfare system might explain some of the discrepancies in crime rate but that's another topic.

No prison system is perfect and can just be applied anywhere. The best prison system is a balance between rehabilitation, punishment and deterrence catered specifically to the region it's applied to considering its culture and socio-economics. For example, if you have this kind of European prison in Sudan, crime rate would skyrocket because everybody would be trying to get in. This is definitely a terrible prison system for Sudan.

[kNIOKAS]

This rehabilitation angle might be fine if this was some guy who robbed a store or stole a car.

This person murdered over a dozen random people. There's no reason to allow him to live. Aren't Norway supposed to be atheists?

What is the justification for spending money on this guy? If you believe we are just an organized group of animals evolved from monkeys, how exactly do you justify sacrificing your own resources out of irrational pity for a stranger who murdered 12 of your fellow citizens?

Like I don't understand. If you believed in God and all life being holy - and I'm not saying whether you should or shouldn't - but at least you'd be consistent. The extreme hypersensitivity of atheist liberal moralists is very confusing to me. It seems completely arbitrary, and based on little more than showing off to your fellow countrymen and neighboring countries how "advanced" you are in letting criminals, immigrants, religious extremists etc take advantage of you.


Oooh, how cool and progressive. You're like, "above" exercising authority. So advanced. So intellectual.
:applause: What a dummy


Not necessarily just to punish...also to deter crime and deter criminals from repeating.

If I know how horrible prison is then certainly I don't want to go there or go back again.

They are doing this hand chopping thing in Arab for people who steal and I don't think there's been many stealing cases.

The success of this system is arguable due to corrupt people but to me the logic is sound.
Well things like capital punishment (execution) proved to not work as a detterent at all. Either you were going to commit a crime that bad, or you didn't. I bet the same effect is found in other eye-for-eye situations.

I can see how some people in the society scream for revenge as if it would solve or prevent the problem. It usually doesn't.
The horrible prisons, on the other hand, breake people and most often make them incapable of living elsewhere than in prison.

You think you're judging accurately saying "I wouldn't want to get back there" but a) you've never been to prison b) you evaluate the idea from the perspective of a person who's never been to prison, naturally. Maybe you wouldn't want to get back to regular life after you've been to prison, who knows.

[BasedTom]

varg got bent and screwd wbhile 70 chidldcatcher lives the lappafof luxury **** this gay ea45htrth

[pastis]

No one says it's so good. :biggums:

Gun control, culture and welfare system might explain some of the discrepancies in crime rate but that's another topic.

No prison system is perfect and can just be applied anywhere. The best prison system is a balance between rehabilitation, punishment and deterrence catered specifically to the region it's applied to considering its culture and socio-economics. For example, if you have this kind of European prison in Sudan, crime rate would skyrocket because everybody would be trying to get in. This is definitely a terrible prison system for Sudan.

im not talking about having a stylish and roomy cell (that is unecessary for me, lol, even incredible) or having a tv or playstation, im talking about thesystem of rehabilitation against the us-system. i think that the system of rehabilitation would work everywhere.

in germany criminals can make their high-school graduation in prison or even studying per distance if the university gives distance-degrees (distance learning, or whatever is the correct name in usa). better than being on 4qm with 2 other guys in a cell and its all about muscle, drugs, violence, having only 1h per day outside and having absolutly NO HOPE, knowing you will be the rest of you life in this shit.

about capital punishment: in german medias there was in the las weeks some stories about people judged to death in the us although they were innocent. incredible. just this fact proves that at least execution is wrong.
saying this, in germany you cant be judged if there are only circumstancial evidences or just one proof. for being judged the DA has to collect more clear proofs.

[iamgine]

Well things like capital punishment (execution) proved to not work as a detterent at all. Either you were going to commit a crime that bad, or you didn't. I bet the same effect is found in other eye-for-eye situations.

I can see how some people in the society scream for revenge as if it would solve or prevent the problem. It usually doesn't.
The horrible prisons, on the other hand, breake people and most often make them incapable of living elsewhere than in prison.

You think you're judging accurately saying "I wouldn't want to get back there" but a) you've never been to prison b) you evaluate the idea from the perspective of a person who's never been to prison, naturally. Maybe you wouldn't want to get back to regular life after you've been to prison, who knows.
Yeah I heard capital punishment didn't work so well. However, I think chopping up hands been working well in Arab. And capital punishment for drug trafficker in Singapore seems to be working so the effectiveness may vary by region.

I think US capital punishment just doesn't seem real enough what with the convenient painless needle nowadays. Maybe if they start televising it and drop the criminals in acid instead of using painless needle, there would be more effect. Kinda like that time the government showing ineffective ads about littering until the crying Indian ad finally make it a success.

[iamgine]

im not talking about having a stylish and roomy cell (that is unecessary for me, lol, even incredible) or having a tv or playstation, im talking about thesystem of rehabilitation against the us-system. i think that the system of rehabilitation would work everywhere.

in germany criminals can make their high-school graduation in prison or even studying per distance (distance learning, or whatever is the correct name in usa). better than being on 4qm with 2 other guys in a cell and its all about muscle, drugs, violence, having only 1h per day outside and having absolutly NO HOPE, knowing you will be the rest of you life in this shit.
Umm...the US system is also based on rehabilitation. Any good prison system has to be at least partly based on rehabilitation.

[BlakFrankWhite]

he murdered 85 kids and gets to live a life of comfort??

f*** the system!!

[kNIOKAS]

Yeah I heard capital punishment didn't work so well. However, I think chopping up hands been working well in Arab. And capital punishment for drug trafficker in Singapore seems to be working so the effectiveness may vary by region.

I think US capital punishment just doesn't seem real enough what with the convenient painless needle nowadays. Maybe if they start televising it and drop the criminals in acid instead of using painless needle, there would be more effect. Kinda like that time the government showing ineffective ads about littering until the crying Indian ad finally make it a success.
You've probably understood from my previous post that what you're saying here is precisely on the wrong track, in my opinion.

We had an atrocious crime here, the girl was left in a burning car. Everybody was calling for the execution of those who did it - a fair deal, in terms of revenge.

However, in terms of preventing the situation, the execution would not. Would you think this conversation happened:
- Yo, lets just do it, set it on fire, get out.
- NOoo you're an idiot - that will get us the death sentence! Wow you stupid.
- No you stupid. Death sentence has been abolished. Get up with the times.
- Ok lets do it then. Life imprisonment is def worth it.

What I'm trying to illustrate is that people commiting such crimes probably never think of the consequences (or never think about in this way we would do, think "rationally"). It's something else that is guiding their decision process. Therefore the punishment as a deterrent is barely viable.

In regards to Asian/Eastern cultures, I would guess the culture is the biggest deterrent there, not the exact crime. They are very collectivistic, they follow their code a lot. Just guessing though. It might even not be the punishment itself, but the stigma of having no limb in the society that will ostracize you for that or something.

he murdered 85 kids and gets to live a life of comfort??

f*** the system!!
In terms of revenge - yes. In terms of preventing the situation - I'm not sure.

Not necessarily advocating the policies we're discussing, but I think when a human being commits something this attrocious, it shows he does not fit the normal human being standard that we all judge ourselves by. A not-human, if you will. Therefore, it's somewhat sensible to try to employ strategies that would get him back and make him a regular person.

A regular person should be judged by different standards. Say some financial scammer, banker or a fraudster rips people off and takes their money. He was a regular person, he knew he was doing the bad thing, he yet did it because of various reasons - it was a "victimless" crime in a way, he may not seen the victims themselves, it's all hidden in the culture and society, it's merely numbers on a computer screen. You can then judge that person and hand out him a punishment-deterrent, because he thinks as we all do and merely fell to a sin.

When a person kills other people, or tortures puppies, or something attrocious like that - it indicates he's not normal, and not like us. He lacks the human quality. In this way, a deterrent does nothing good but revenge the victim.

[kurple]

He should be put to death. Not sure why anyone would be interested in salvaging his life or spending thousands of dollars to help him.

Truly pitiful and disgusting system

Can you imagine if the man killed your family, and then was sent to a fckin retirement home of video games?
i can imagine.... well not family, but he did kill a friend of mine

but norwegians are above all this pety crap. we're on some next level shyt

[kurple]

This rehabilitation angle might be fine if this was some guy who robbed a store or stole a car.

This person murdered over a dozen random people. There's no reason to allow him to live. Aren't Norway supposed to be atheists?

What is the justification for spending money on this guy? If you believe we are just an organized group of animals evolved from monkeys, how exactly do you justify sacrificing your own resources out of irrational pity for a stranger who murdered 12 of your fellow citizens?

Like I don't understand. If you believed in God and all life being holy - and I'm not saying whether you should or shouldn't - but at least you'd be consistent. The extreme hypersensitivity of atheist liberal moralists is very confusing to me. It seems completely arbitrary, and based on little more than showing off to your fellow countrymen and neighboring countries how "advanced" you are in letting criminals, immigrants, religious extremists etc take advantage of you.


Oooh, how cool and progressive. You're like, "above" exercising authority. So advanced. So intellectual.
Norway aint atheist, and Brevik killed a lot more than 12 citizens



wouldnt expect americans to understand. revenge driven country

how many millions of tax payer money did your country waste on the war on terror after 9/11

[DonD13]

Well, if you feel like you have to murder someone, or a dozen people, Norway seems like the best place to do it.

Much better than in Russia, USA, or China.

Norway will learn eventually, along with other Scandinavian countries, just gotta give them some time for their liberal tendencies to fade away and become a more conservative country.

why should they learn from savage countries like USA, Russia or China? The USA got the most people locked up percentage wise in the whole world.



While I don't agree with the maximum sentence being 21 years

Everything else is good

i agree with you Randy. I think they will find a way to give him more than 21 eventually.

[iamgine]

You've probably understood from my previous post that what you're saying here is precisely on the wrong track, in my opinion.

We had an atrocious crime here, the girl was left in a burning car. Everybody was calling for the execution of those who did it - a fair deal, in terms of revenge.

However, in terms of preventing the situation, the execution would not. Would you think this conversation happened:
- Yo, lets just do it, set it on fire, get out.
- NOoo you're an idiot - that will get us the death sentence! Wow you stupid.
- No you stupid. Death sentence has been abolished. Get up with the times.
- Ok lets do it then. Life imprisonment is def worth it.

What I'm trying to illustrate is that people commiting such crimes probably never think of the consequences (or never think about in this way we would do, think "rationally"). It's something else that is guiding their decision process. Therefore the punishment as a deterrent is barely viable.

In regards to Asian/Eastern cultures, I would guess the culture is the biggest deterrent there, not the exact crime. They are very collectivistic, they follow their code a lot. Just guessing though. It might even not be the punishment itself, but the stigma of having no limb in the society that will ostracize you for that or something.

In terms of revenge - yes. In terms of preventing the situation - I'm not sure.
You are saying people who do it don't think of the punishment thus punishment as deterrent is useless.

I would disagree because for a lot of people the punishment must have an effect. Of course, not in every circumstance but it stands to reason that most people's decision are in some ways influenced by consequences, even hardened criminals. If not directly then indirectly.

I know druggies think twice crossing Singapore because of its harsh law.

[BlackWhiteGreen]

well, if the us system is so good, why the criminality rate is so much much much higher in the us than in german, norway, sweden etc? why? epecially hard crimes like murder, robbery etc. explain me! i dont think that any statistic proves that the us system is "better" than "our" system.
in the usa the murder rate is nearly 6 times higher than in germany, the rape rate is 3x times higher than in germany. violent crime is 6 times higher than in germany. car theft is 18x higher than in germany. murder commited by youth is 16x higher than in germany. rates always per million habitants
explain

I mean, it helps that Germany is pretty ****ing awesome.

[Akrazotile]

well, if the us system is so good, why the criminality rate is so much much much higher in the us than in german, norway, sweden etc? why? epecially hard crimes like murder, robbery etc. explain me! i dont think that any statistic proves that the us system is "better" than "our" system.
in the usa the murder rate is nearly 6 times higher than in germany, the rape rate is 3x times higher than in germany. violent crime is 6 times higher than in germany. car theft is 18x higher than in germany. murder commited by youth is 16x higher than in germany. rates always per million habitants
explain


We're a melting pot bro.

Everyone doesnt come from the same fair-skinned, two parent home culture.

Its funny tho how europeans like to slam americans for this and that, laugh, point, criticize etc, but then if you point out "hey, a lot of these statistics have to do with our minority population" suddenly theyre like "omg biggot!!!!"

:facepalm

Hypocrites.

[Akrazotile]

Norway aint atheist, and Brevik killed a lot more than 12 citizens



wouldnt expect americans to understand. revenge driven country

how many millions of tax payer money did your country waste on the war on terror after 9/11


Far too much. Doesnt mean I have to agree with it.

I can tell when something my country does is bullshit.

[Dresta]

A system shouldn't be based on revenge though, it should be based around re educating these people in to contributing members of society where possible. If it's not possible they'll still be stuck locked up away from society where everything they do is restricted. Amercia's problems arise from that fact that a large portion of their prison population don't see prison as a punishment either because they have connections and friends in there who just set them up for their release. They know they can do the time so they do it then get out and keep the same life style. Who's that helping? The euro system could be harsher on people who will clearly never be rehabilitated but on the whole it works better albeit on a smaller scale.
Sorry to burst that idyllic bubble you're floating in, but all legal systems are based on revenge and retribution, and they always have been. Justice is a facade: there is no 'justice' or equalling of the scales to be had when one person commits a grave crime against another - one life cannot be bought by the life of another (though this was the common historical punishment, dating all the way from primitive tribal communities), because they are different lives. No deed can be undone, and no injustice can be made just for that reason; thus punishment can be nothing other than retribution (though confinement can also efficacious).

What does 're-educating these people in to contributing members of society' even mean? It sounds nice, but it's just empty fluff - it means nothing; nor do you 're-educate' people by indulging them (not to mention that other countries don't have the money and tiny populations with which to indulge their prisoners like Norway). If prisons were this nice in the UK or France you'd have 100s of thousands of people committing crimes just to go there, to take a break from the normal hardship of their lives, etc.

Prison as punishment has nothing to to with rates of reoffending anyway, and everything to do with deterring the criminal act in the first place. That is the point of it really: to make enough people decide that criminality simply isn't worth the concomitant risk to their futures (i.e. to keep the first offense rate as low as possible).

But please, the whole edifice of law is built on top of the human lust for revenge.

edit: and just reading the last few pages of this thread it is striking how many people take the side of rather nauseating criminals over the victims, and consider the suffering and rehabilitation of the former as more important than the psychic wellbeing of the latter. Think how many families have to live with the knowledge that the man who destroyed their lives looks to be being rewarded for doing so :lol

It is incredible that these 'all-so-humane' defenders of Norway's completely absurd system care not a single whit for these people, but some are actually concerned with the rehabilitation of Brevik. You're welling up in pity for all criminals (of the worst stripe), and applauding your humanity for doing so. Oh, how muddled these silly people and their petty moral systems have become!

[Blue&Orange]

Physical pain. Instead of imprison someone for 10 years, just water board the mutha****er everyday for 6 months, i bet my left nut he wouldn't be committing any crime soon when he was set free.

Break the mutha****er, put him on his knees crying for mercy and then rehabilitate him.

Families with lost ones would be happier, pay less taxes, and dude would have another chance on life, without needing to wait until he is 70 years old.


How da **** is possible and acceptable to disciple kids with physical pain, but adults that should know better, we can't touch them.

[Akrazotile]

Physical pain. Instead of imprison someone for 10 years, just water board the mutha****er everyday for 6 months, i bet my left nut he wouldn't be committing any crime soon when he was set free.

Break the mutha****er, put him on his knees crying for mercy and then rehabilitate him.

Families with lost ones would be happier, pay less taxes, and dude would have another chance on life, without needing to wait until he is 70 years old.


How da **** is possible and acceptable to disciple kids with physical pain, but adults that should know better, we can't touch them.


Cant say this doesnt make a bit of sense.

[kNIOKAS]

You are saying people who do it don't think of the punishment thus punishment as deterrent is useless.

I would disagree because for a lot of people the punishment must have an effect. Of course, not in every circumstance but it stands to reason that most people's decision are in some ways influenced by consequences, even hardened criminals. If not directly then indirectly.

I know druggies think twice crossing Singapore because of its harsh law.
My argument that people who commit the most heinous of crimes most likely do not have the mechanisms that most of the people do - those that take the punishment into account.

The curve of how people perceive punishment must also be not a straightforwad, linear one. I imagine there are multiple treshholds and for example, getting 20 years prison is not perceived much different than getting 40 years in prison, although aritmethically it is significantly different.

So I can see how minor punishment for regular people and for regular crime is a good idea, however, once we get into cases where some sick individual does stuff that nobody has done in the last 50 years - I think it's obvious that it is a unique case where the punishment wasn't that big of a factor.

Drugs and addicts is a whole other topic... It's similar in a way that it is a not willful act that a person is fully responsible for, but it's different because the addict (most likely) is a normal human being like everybody else, and not a psycho of sorts... That's why the punishment is still an effective deterrent. However, at a certain point addiction gets so bad that a person cannot regulate himself any longer.

I think we could agree that for regular folks punishment could work as a deterrent, but what I'm saying is for the extraordinary cases it most likely won't. That's what makes them extraordinary.

Physical pain. Instead of imprison someone for 10 years, just water board the mutha****er everyday for 6 months, i bet my left nut he wouldn't be committing any crime soon when he was set free.

Break the mutha****er, put him on his knees crying for mercy and then rehabilitate him.

Families with lost ones would be happier, pay less taxes, and dude would have another chance on life, without needing to wait until he is 70 years old.


How da **** is possible and acceptable to disciple kids with physical pain, but adults that should know better, we can't touch them.
Very mature. You know what torture does to humans? And your suggestion is to turn a mistreated, misdevelloped human being into a walking human meat? What does that change?
The only thing it breads is more misery in the world. It won't help the society, it sure as hell won't help the individual. You're just a loud ignorant fk.

Cant say this doesnt make a bit of sense.
Yeah, can't say it does though.

[MavsSuperFan]

if i ever fall on hard times I should go to norway and rape some beautiful Norwegian women so that i can enjoy their luxury prisons.

[Blue&Orange]

Very mature. You know what torture does to humans? And your suggestion is to turn a mistreated, misdevelloped human being into a walking human meat? What does that change?
The only thing it breads is more misery in the world. It won't help the society, it sure as hell won't help the individual.
Deep down you know it makes sense, hence your strawman argument of everyone in prison is mistreated and misdevelloped, it almost sound like you think they are victims which is funny at the very least. And how does corporal punishment make someone a walking human meat? My fathers slap me when i acted like a idiot and looking at the brats society today breeds i thank them.

How about those rich kids that can even get away with murder and rape, terrific persons. I can only wonder how corporal punishment would've made them horrible persons. :confusedshrug:

Inhuman is to jail somebody for his lifetime sometimes for a split second bad decision.

If some drunk driver rammed against your car and killed your son and daughter, you would die to hurt that person, so don't tell how corporal punishment would be wrong, don't be a hypocrite.


Pretty sure it's cheaper to have someone locked in than have to pay him some sort of welfare check and have worse unemployment numbers. That's it, the only things jail time have on corporal punishment.

[MavsSuperFan]

I also have no qualms about torturing criminals for serious crimes. as long as the punishment is carried about by the state

Rehabilitation should not even be a factor in the consideration of punishing certain criminals.

[Nanners]

random comment made by a norwegian citizen

"In the safest, most boring country, the worst lone gunman shooting happens. The worst in the world, in history. But it will not make our country worse. The safe, boring democracy will supply him with a defense lawyer as is his right. He will not get more than 21 years in prison as is the maximum extent of the law. Our democracy does not allow for enough punishment to satisfy my need for revenge, as is its intention. We will not become worse, we will be better. We lived in a land where this is possible, even easy. And we will keep living in a land where this is possible, even easy. We are open, we are free and we are together. We are vulnerable by choice. And we will keep on like that, that’s how we want to live. We will not be worse because of the worst. We must be good because of the best."

[kNIOKAS]

Deep down you know it makes sense, hence your strawman argument of everyone in prison is mistreated and misdevelloped, it almost sound like you think they are victims which is funny at the very least. And how does corporal punishment make someone a walking human meat? My fathers slap me when i acted like a idiot and looking at the brats society today breeds i thank them.

How about those rich kids that can even get away with murder and rape, terrific persons. I can only wonder how corporal punishment would've made them horrible persons. :confusedshrug:

Inhuman is to jail somebody for his lifetime sometimes for a split second bad decision.

If some drunk driver rammed against your car and killed your son and daughter, you would die to hurt that person, so don't tell how corporal punishment would be wrong, don't be a hypocrite.


Pretty sure it's cheaper to have someone locked in than have to pay him some sort of welfare check and have worse unemployment numbers. That's it, the only things jail time have on corporal punishment.
You need to read my post again because you got it wrong. When I said mistreated and misdeveloped I meant the childhood of this hypothetical rogue person we were talking about. And yes, they are victims in a sense that they do not possess the traits that other humans do. Of course, it depends on the way you look at it. If a person flat out does not have a capacity for empathy for others - is he a victim?

Corporal punishment or torture does help to erode any kind of stable human core that a person has. With torture along with other methods it is possible to deconstruct a human being and turn him into a puppet. Hence the term "brainwashing".

It is far from the physical discipline that you got from your dad. A) it was in your childhood, when you were still developing, therefore it was effective in those very limited amounts and not detrimental to your personality B) your parents must have showed affection to you, cared for you, connected with you etc. That all together does not make you a psycho (well I hope, but most likely - you're alright).

Therefore your paralels and anecdotical comparisons are off from the get go. You cannot understand or realistically judge a person who have been not developing in a way that you have, and that's exactly my point.

The last point you're making has nothing to do with rehabilitation or prevention of crime. It's purely argument about emotions - so since I would be mad that somebody killed my relative it should be right to torture that person? There's no connection there. I think we've clearly established that we're talking about preventing crimes and re-educating those that did commit them. You're talking about the revenge because of emotional distress of the victim/relatives of the victim. Are you that dull or trolling?

[dannywpt]

First of all, he will be in prison for the rest of his life. No doubt. He is not out in 21 years from now.

Secondly, most of the prisons in Norway are in abysmal state compared to this state of the art prison in the pictures OP posted. Seriously. Most of the prisons are from the 1800s with only minimal upgrades since then. They are bascially rotten, toilets clog all the time, people try to light their cells on fire (and they cant afford to fix the damage) and so on. Maybe 2% of all inmates have it anywhere close to the pictures. Source: I live in Norway and worked with prison management last summer.

Lastly, his punishment is his total lack of freedom and socialization. He is in isolation with absolutely no interaction with other inmates (at least for now). He gets 1 hour outside his cell daily. Every day for the rest of his life will be spent sitting in that room reading, watching TV or playing games.

Interesting documentary if you want to see an American superintendent's reaction to visiting this prison: Click (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfEsz812Q1I) (starts at 17:30)

[Dresta]

[QUOTE=Nanners]random comment made by a norwegian citizen

"In the safest, most boring country, the worst lone gunman shooting happens. The worst in the world, in history. But it will not make our country worse. The safe, boring democracy will supply him with a defense lawyer as is his right. He will not get more than 21 years in prison as is the maximum extent of the law. Our democracy does not allow for enough punishment to satisfy my need for revenge, as is its intention. We will not become worse, we will be better. We lived in a land where this is possible, even easy. And we will keep living in a land where this is possible, even easy. We are open, we are free and we are together. We are vulnerable by choice. And we will keep on like that, that

[NumberSix]

I also have no qualms about torturing criminals for serious crimes. as long as the punishment is carried about by the state

Rehabilitation should not even be a factor in the consideration of punishing certain criminals.
How is it that I see some of you making the dumbest excuses for criminals and how their own actions aren't their own fault, but then you say shit like this?

You're ok with the state torturing people? Are you insane?

If by "torturing people" you mean solitary confinement, ok. I understand that. But, torture as in inflicting physical pain? No, that's just out of bounds.

As for the death penalty, I'm not in principle against the idea of killing the worst criminals. I'm not sure I'm comfortable with the state wielding that kind of power. At the very least, the standard for what merits a death sentence should be VERY high. Well beyond the "beyond a reasonable doubt". I'm talking like "impossibility of innocence".

[ThePhantomCreep]

Well, if you feel like you have to murder someone, or a dozen people, Norway seems like the best place to do it.

Much better than in Russia, USA, or China.

Norway will learn eventually, along with other Scandinavian countries, just gotta give them some time for their liberal tendencies to fade away and become a more conservative country

ROFL, those Scandinavian countries have a far greater quality of life than the conservative shitholes in the South. There's absolutely nothing Norway could learn from Alabama.

[brantonli]

First of all, he will be in prison for the rest of his life. No doubt. He is not out in 21 years from now.

Secondly, most of the prisons in Norway are in abysmal state compared to this state of the art prison in the pictures OP posted. Seriously. Most of the prisons are from the 1800s with only minimal upgrades since then. They are bascially rotten, toilets clog all the time, people try to light their cells on fire (and they cant afford to fix the damage) and so on. Maybe 2% of all inmates have it anywhere close to the pictures. Source: I live in Norway and worked with prison management last summer.

Lastly, his punishment is his total lack of freedom and socialization. He is in isolation with absolutely no interaction with other inmates (at least for now). He gets 1 hour outside his cell daily. Every day for the rest of his life will be spent sitting in that room reading, watching TV or playing games.

Interesting documentary if you want to see an American superintendent's reaction to visiting this prison: Click (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfEsz812Q1I) (starts at 17:30)


Nobody has pointed out that Breivik isn't at Halden, the place pictured in OP. He's at Ila Prison, which used to be a concentration camp by the Nazis.

[Lamar Doom]

Like I don't understand.


Like, no way!


The extreme hypersensitivity of atheist liberal moralists is very confusing to me. It seems completely arbitrary, and based on little more than showing off to your fellow countrymen and neighboring countries how "advanced" you are in letting criminals, immigrants, religious extremists etc take advantage of you.

Oooh, how cool and progressive. You're like, "above" exercising authority. So advanced. So intellectual.

Obsessively (and I mean OBSESSIVELY, to a clinical degree) repeating the same sentiment over and over and over. So advanced, so intellectual. Empathy and compassion are weaknesses. Everyone is sheep. Got it. Super thoughtful stuff.




Liberals/Hipsters think its cool to be a doormat. It's like their "hey look at me and how smart/edgy I must be if I'm doing this" thing.

It's really unreal how bad it's getting. Testicles are literally disappearing off men left and right. Dudes trying to find their identity by being whiney, groveling, insecure, accommodationist, oversensitive f@ggots. They actually think this makes them "cool."

I think you pretty much nailed it man. People with different opinions than you just have them because they're trying to act cool. To them, being weak is cool. Do you have any other insight? (seriously, ANY other insight)



I tried to make a thread exploring the mindset of these dudes but this website full of dummies didn't want to discuss anything meaningful.

Oh, is that what you did? hahahaha. I'm sure being hostile, antagonistic, and utterly dismissive of anything other than your personal perspective makes people really want to engage in this "meaningful" discussion you opened up. You need help, cuz.

P.S. - I'm pretty sure someone tried to earnestly respond to you (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11324613&postcount=83) but you didn't want to discuss anything meaningful. Probably because you'd moved on to sharing THE EXACT SAME redundant balderdash in another thread. For the love of god get some new material.

[NumberSix]

ROFL, those Scandinavian countries have a far greater quality of life than the conservative shitholes in the South. There's absolutely nothing Norway could learn from Alabama.
It's interesting that the country ranked #1 in quality of life is Switzerland, which is literally the most right wing country on earth.

[NumberSix]

Don can you speak to this?

Also it's unsettling that to a lot of you justice is severe punishment and torture

Like a bad person's suffering actually makes you happy

But ya know, sick world and all that
Why are you quoting me for this? I just explained that torture is absolutely out of bounds and that I'm not comfortable with the state having the ability use death as a punishment.

[Nick Young]

well, if the us system is so good, why the criminality rate is so much much much higher in the us than in german, norway, sweden etc? why? epecially hard crimes like murder, robbery etc. explain me! i dont think that any statistic proves that the us system is "better" than "our" system.
in the usa the murder rate is nearly 6 times higher than in germany, the rape rate is 3x times higher than in germany. violent crime is 6 times higher than in germany. car theft is 18x higher than in germany. murder commited by youth is 16x higher than in germany. rates always per million habitants
explain
Bigger population=more assholes ruining things for everyone else.

You can't compare a population of 360 million to a country of 5 million like Norway or Denmark, or even 70 million like Germany.

That's what you need to understand.

It would be nice to project stats and everything, but it doesn't work out like that. If Norway had a population of 360 million their prison system and philosophy would not be what it is today.

If you are only 4 million people and have as much money as Norway does, it's easy to take their easy hippy philosophy and buy playstations for every prisoner and provide them with state of the art recording studios and en-suite "prison cells".

You need to understand that that philosophy doesn't scale for a population the size of the US.

Norway's system and government would fail miserably if they had to rule over 360+ million people as too many people would take advantage of the welfare system for it to be able to sustain itself.

[dannywpt]

Nobody has pointed out that Breivik isn't at Halden, the place pictured in OP. He's at Ila Prison, which used to be a concentration camp by the Nazis.

Yup.

Newspaper article in norwegian with some actual photos from his cell: Click (http://www.nrk.no/227/artikler/slik-skal-breivik-bo-1.8288654)

[Akrazotile]

Like, no way!



Obsessively (and I mean OBSESSIVELY, to a clinical degree) repeating the same sentiment over and over and over. So advanced, so intellectual. Empathy and compassion are weaknesses. Everyone is sheep. Got it. Super thoughtful stuff.




You know why that is?

Because I actually CARE about this country. I CARE about the planet. I CARE about the future world my children will be living in. You care ONLY about calming your own short-sighted effeminate emotionalism and deluding yourself about the world till you feel comfortable.

You refuse to look at the reality. You refuse to actually investigate why things work the way they do and see the unpleasant realities. You hide behind idealogical delusions. You're the kind of guy who thinks if we just raise the minimum wage to like, 50 dollars an hour, then like, everything will be equaler. You're the kind of guy who says "Borders are stupid. Its just invisible lines. We should get rid of them." You probably think "People who obey the law shouldn't have guns, only the criminals should because like, there was slavery before so don't judge them."

And you know what? You're the kind of guy living in a desirable venice beach location because you get overpaid by a union job when you DO work, and when you don't work you collect welfare from the tax pool of others, and even have the nerve to support MULTIPLE DOGS at your home with your welfare money. And YOU have the nerve to talk about what other people should do with their money, whom it should go to, what kind of policies we should have regarding this or that issue. "Omg but strarface, your parents helped you financially when you moved to LA!" Which was a personal choice they freely made as parents, for which I am extremely grateful, and respectful of their right to use the money they've earned in the manner of their choosing. I'm not sitting around on my period preaching the virtues of socialism when someone else's money helped me, and the meager shit I earned gets spent on dog toys for my hounds instead of maybe, I don't know, donating it to a kid in Africa?

If we let Lamar Doom draw up his ideal world and then we tried to actually implement it, you know where you'd actually be? Instead of spending other peoples money la dee da in sunny Venice Beach, you'd be locked in the car trunk of some cartel lord named Humberto, on your way to the human chop shop getting ready to have your rectum sold for the owner's personal use, before having your spleen, kidney, and heart removed to be put on the open market. Because YOU are a soft pansy, and while others do the hard work and the dirty work to keep this country running safely, you sit there in Venice Beach with your dogs and say "Hey man, that's like, not cool how like the army uses waterboarding!!!!"

GTFO. You're a woman with a beard. You're not equipped intellectually or hormonally to make challenging assertions or stick up for unpopular things. You hide behind the self-righteous, mob-think elitism of the peers in your city, in your work industry, in your age bracket and so forth because you aren't smart or articulate enough to see things in your own way. You aren't putting in work trying to understand and solve issues. You're sitting there weeping like a pvssy bitch and trying to be every human's personal babysitter. Great job. You're a mother. You've literally grown up to become a mother.

[kNIOKAS]

^ mental disorder detected :(

[Akrazotile]

^ mental disorder detected :(


^ Menstruation detected.

[ThePhantomCreep]

It's interesting that the country ranked #1 in quality of life is Switzerland, which is literally the most right wing country on earth.
Switzerland is conservative relative to its European neighbors, but they still have universal health care, no capital punishment, and unlike Murica, homosexuals are a protected class. You can't ban gays from your bakery 'cause baby jesus told you to.

Lax guns laws are about the only thing it shares in common with the teabilly South, and it's nowhere near the most right-wing country on earth. For that, start your search in the middle east.

[Akrazotile]

Switzerland is conservative relative to its European neighbors, but they still have universal health care, no capital punishment, and unlike Murica, homosexuals are a protected class. You can't ban gays from your bakery 'cause baby jesus told you to.

Lax guns laws are about the only thing it shares in common with the teabilly South, and it's nowhere near the most right-wing country on earth. For that, start your search in the middle east.


What people like you never seem to be able to grasp from way up there on your high horse, is that it's easy for people in Switzerland and Norway and Lichtenstein to sip cognac and eat fondu while laughing smuggly at the "teabilly south" because their lives and freedom are PROTECTED by the soldiers that come form the teabilly south.


Let's let the US go back to an isolationist policy, and see what happens to nice little pleasantville countries over there in Europe. Those dainty capri-pants wearing sissies will be oppressed under Chinese, Russian, Iranian rule etc. REAL FAST.

Oh, but they're so much better than those jesus loving bible belters! Why don't those hicks just change their backward ways and be super smart like us androgynous europeans???

Just wait. Because as soon as those teabillies do catch up, there'll be nobody left to protect those countries. Then things will be real interesting.

[ThePhantomCreep]

^ mental disorder detected :(
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/evolutionary-entertainment/201206/conservatism-mental-illness

They display all the signs:

[QUOTE]1)*Denial:*humans did not evolve(link is external); *Obama is not a native-born American Christian(link is external)

2)*Delusion:*climate is not changing(link is external)

3)*Hallucination:*God ordained*me*to be President(link is external)

4)*Disordered Thinking:*being for*smallgovernment that's*huge*in the bedroom(link is external); *being anti-contraception*and*anti-abortion(link is external)

5)*Anger:*Newt Gingrich

[Akrazotile]

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/evolutionary-entertainment/201206/conservatism-mental-illness

They display all the signs:

Well.


It's better than hiding behind shrill hypersensitivity because you're insecure about looking like this:


http://www.nedhardy.com/wp-content/uploads/images/2010/september/hipsters/hipster_fail_1.jpg

[Akrazotile]

lol



http://www.quickmeme.com/img/98/982711896495e4a66160797cb2e511270e590aa257fd67898d bf02297ea06842.jpg

[ThePhantomCreep]

What people like you never seem to be able to grasp from way up there on your high horse, is that it's easy for people in Switzerland and Norway and Lichtenstein to sip cognac and eat fondu while laughing smuggly at the "teabilly south" because their lives and freedom are PROTECTED by the soldiers that come form the teabilly south.


Let's let the US go back to an isolationist policy, and see what happens to nice little pleasantville countries over there in Europe. Those dainty capri-pants wearing sissies will be oppressed under Chinese, Russian, Iranian rule etc. REAL FAST.

Oh, but they're so much better than those jesus loving bible belters! Why don't those hicks just change their backward ways and be super smart like us androgynous europeans???

Just wait. Because as soon as those teabillies do catch up, there'll be nobody left to protect those countries. Then things will be real interesting.

More delusion. Your typical teabilly couldnt find Switzerland on a map, MUCH LESS invent the high-tech gadgetry needed to protect it.

I'm pretty sure Europe can take care of itself just fine. They're not losing any sleep over Iran the way the GOP is, and China? They trade with European nations, dummy.

United States = world police nobody asked for.

[Akrazotile]

More delusion. Your typical teabilly couldnt find Switzerland on a map, MUCH LESS invent the high-tech gadgetry needed to protect it.

I'm pretty sure Europe can take care of itself just fine. They're not losing any sleep over Iran the way the GOP is, and China? They trade with European nations, dummy.

United States = with police nobody asked for.


Claims teabillies can't find Switzerland on a map.






Hasn't heard of World War I and II.


:facepalm :biggums:

[ThePhantomCreep]

Claims teabillies can't find Switzerland on a map.


:facepalm :biggums:Murica won WWI now? :lol

We were in that war for what, five minutes?

I won't even touch the fallacy that all military personnel are conservative. That simply isn't true.

[ThePhantomCreep]

Europe has much it can learn from places like Kentucky and Alabama. For example, science:

http://queerty-prodweb.s3.amazonaws.com/wp/docs/2014/08/creationmuseum.jpg

[Akrazotile]

Murica won WWI now? :lol

We were in that war for what, five minutes?

I won't even touch the fallacy that all military personnel are conservatives. That simply isn't true.


Dude, my point is that the American military is the most dominant force on the face of the planet, and while our political leaders often exploit our military for personal gain, our military also legitimately PREVENTS conflicts between other nations and inhibits my aggressive states.

Everyone wants the US military on their side, but for some reason likes to make themselves feel superior and as if they have some kind of elevated worth by trashing the lifestyle and values of people in small heartland towns. So what they don't change their views as quickly as you do? What business is it of yours anyway?

Think about how YOU stay blind to large scale exploitation and corruption because you're so obsessed and in a huff about whether a mom and pop shop in an indianapolis suburb is willing to cater pastries for a same sex wedding ceremony? Maybe you need to realize that you aren't Robin Hood. That nobody is impressed with your hypersensitive meddling and high-horse condemning. You're not a hero and maybe you'd be better off finding some hobbies and worrying about issues that have an impact on you and letting other people mind their own businesses?

The difference between you and me isn't support of same sex marriage. I don't give a shit if we do or don't have it. Because that is WAAAAY down the list of priorities for me. That's a wedge issue that is purposely exploited to distract people from bigger issues. And Captain Sensitive Wannabes like you get hooked in and taken for a ride while much bigger issues go undetected, because it fills some sort of personal identity vacuum for you to lead the charge for tolerance in every single pocket of the country. You are easily manipulated emotionally. And you THINK that makes you smart. Your'e proud of yourself for it. You spend half the day congratulating yourself for being so much more advanced than those dumb jesus lovers in kansas. Way to go, bro. You're just as easily exploited as they are, but you ALSO don't have testicles.

#Winning.

[Hawker]

More delusion. Your typical teabilly couldnt find Switzerland on a map, MUCH LESS invent the high-tech gadgetry needed to protect it.

I'm pretty sure Europe can take care of itself just fine. They're not losing any sleep over Iran the way the GOP is, and China? They trade with European nations, dummy.

United States = with police nobody asked for.

Simgapore has supported a strong U.S. military presence to balance out China.

[Eric Cartman]

Doesn't Switzerland have obligatory military service and a steep defense budget? They'd have more than a fighting chance defending themselves against a foreign invasion if USA wasn't in the picture.

Additionally, Switzerland is no doubt a conservative, right wing country, especially relative to Europe.

[Akrazotile]

Doesn't Switzerland have obligatory military service and a steep defense budget? They'd have more than a fighting chance defending themselves against a foreign invasion if USA wasn't in the picture.

Additionally, Switzerland is no doubt a conservative, right wing country, especially relative to Europe.


Well it depends on the conflict obviously. It's still a relatively small country.

The point is, when you're one of these small european countries that is culturally unified and is a service-industry outpost, it's much easier to maintain "pleasantville" when you've got little kids making all your shit for cheap in Asia, and the giant US army backing you up militarily. It's like saying "Well Beverly Hills has low crime and nice houses, why can't Detroit???"

The US is a big country with a lot of different cultures. A wide range of occupations. A different international role. These idiots that think the US can just simply operate like NORWAY which is like 1/50 of its size are naive, self-righteous, poser ass kids who memorized every opinion their community college philosophy 101 professor gave them while ranting about george bush, and go around trumpeting it like they got all the answers to everything. :oldlol: :facepalm

[Eric Cartman]

The US is a big country with a lot of different cultures. A wide range of occupations. A different international role. These idiots that think the US can just simply operate like NORWAY which is like 1/50 of its size are naive, self-righteous, poser ass kids who memorized every opinion their community college philosophy 101 professor gave them while ranting about george bush, and go around trumpeting it like they got all the answers to everything. :oldlol: :facepalm
All in all, this is information better found elsewhere, discussed and thought about outside of ISH.

Cheers mate :cheers:

[ThePhantomCreep]

Well it depends on the conflict obviously. It's still a relatively small country.

The point is, when you're one of these small european countries that is culturally unified and is a service-industry outpost, it's much easier to maintain "pleasantville" when you've got little kids making all your shit for cheap in Asia, and the giant US army backing you up militarily. It's like saying "Well Beverly Hills has low crime and nice houses, why can't Detroit???"

The US is a big country with a lot of different cultures. A wide range of occupations. A different international role. These idiots that think the US can just simply operate like NORWAY which is like 1/50 of its size are naive, self-righteous, poser ass kids who memorized every opinion their community college philosophy 101 professor gave them while ranting about george bush, and go around trumpeting it like they got all the answers to everything. :oldlol: :facepalmIf Norway is too small, try Western Europe.

Western Europe population: 397 million
USA: 316 million

W. Europe lords over the US in QOL, infrastructure, social safety nets, crime, etc. Just flat out better.

Face it, conservatives and conservative states drag this nation down, stall its progress. We can't even get universal healthcare in this goddamn country because of these idiots. These friggin shills for corporate America. Mouth breathers who deny climate change, evolution, and basic economic principles. They hate welfare but won't raise the minimum wage, and they're STILL championing bigotry, misogyny, and homophobia in 2015. Issues that better countries (and liberal US strongholds) put to bed ages ago. Let the South secede, I say.

[NumberSix]

If Norway is too small, try Western Europe.

Western Europe population: 397 million
USA: 316 million

W. Europe lords over the US in QOL, infrastructure, social safety nets, crime, etc. Just flat out better.

Face it, conservatives and conservative states drag this nation down, stall its progress. We can't even get universal healthcare in this goddamn country because of these idiots. These friggin shills for corporate America. Mouth breathers who deny climate change, evolution, and basic economic principles. They hate welfare but won't raise the minimum wage, and they're STILL championing bigotry, misogyny, and homophobia in 2015. Issues that better countries (and liberal US strongholds) put to bed ages ago, still get brought. Let the South secede, I say.
I mean, why won't all Americans just let YOU decide what to do with their private property? Why can't they just agree to pay wages that YOU deem appropriate or let YOU dictate who they can and can't sell a cake to? Don't they know that their money would be better spent on what YOU think is important? Don't they know that value isn't determined by supply and demand, but on ThePhantomCreep's personal preferences? I mean, hello. It's like, the economy stupid.

[Akrazotile]

If Norway is too small, try Western Europe.

Western Europe population: 397 million
USA: 316 million

W. Europe lords over the US in QOL, infrastructure, social safety nets, crime, etc. Just flat out better.

Face it, conservatives and conservative states drag this nation down, stall its progress. We can't even get universal healthcare in this goddamn country because of these idiots. These friggin shills for corporate America. Mouth breathers who deny climate change, evolution, and basic economic principles. They hate welfare but won't raise the minimum wage, and they're STILL championing bigotry, misogyny, and homophobia in 2015. Issues that better countries (and liberal US strongholds) put to bed ages ago, still get brought. Let the South secede, I say.


Whoa. These are BAD arguments.

Really bad. I'll get to them when I have my laptop.

But yikes.

[Lamar Doom]

You know why that is?

Because I actually CARE about this country. I CARE about the planet. I CARE about the future world my children will be living in.


God, what a patriot you are. You're making a real difference in the world you CARE so much about by posting on a basketball message board all day. You're a real activist.



You care ONLY about calming your own short-sighted effeminate emotionalism and deluding yourself about the world till you feel comfortable.

Bro, how are you going to take "stop saying the same thing over and over" and reply with the usual shit? You wanna talk about deluding yourself? Your embarrassingly undue sense of superiority is scary delusional. You're the only one who looks at reality, you. I know you're blissfully ignorant about yourself, but it would be amazing if you could "hear" yourself. You're a bad joke.




You refuse to look at the reality. You refuse to actually investigate why things work the way they do and see the unpleasant realities.


Is that what you do? You investigate why things work the way they do? :roll:



You hide behind idealogical delusions. You're the kind of guy who thinks if we just raise the minimum wage to like, 50 dollars an hour, then like, everything will be equaled.

false.


You're the kind of guy who says "Borders are stupid. Its just invisible lines. We should get rid of them."

false.


You probably think "People who obey the law shouldn't have guns, only the criminals should because like, there was slavery before so don't judge them."

0 for 3. You're the kind of guy who is 30 years old and just posted a selfie of himself in his f*cking underwear on a basketball message board, fact. Oh yeah, I know, it's supposed to be funny. Congrats, it is.


And you know what? You're the kind of guy living in a desirable venice beach location

false again. I'm glad you're caught up on my life in 2008 though. "rent free" as the kids say on here.



because you get overpaid by a union job

Oh yeah? You're up on the value of union film jobs? You don't think the percentage of the lucrative business we receive is fair? You probably know best.


and when you don't work you collect welfare from the tax pool of others, and even have the nerve to support MULTIPLE DOGS at your home with your welfare money.

I haven't taken unemployment insurance in years, because my union job pays enough that I don't need it in the off season. But yeah, when I was a PA and wasn't making shit I took it, a handful of months over 5 years. It was quite helpful. It's what it's there for. You don't like the system? You should change it by being an angry little man on a message board. Hashtag results. Also, I wasn't supporting dogs in those days. One was my girlfriend's and the other we got after we could afford to buy a house. That's what people do when they've contributed enough to the tax pool.



If we let Lamar Doom draw up his ideal world and then we tried to actually implement it, you know where you'd actually be? Instead of spending other peoples money la dee da in sunny Venice Beach, you'd be locked in the car trunk of some cartel lord named Humberto, on your way to the human chop shop getting ready to have your rectum sold for the owner's personal use, before having your spleen, kidney, and heart removed to be put on the open market.

Sounds like you've really investigated the way things work. That's hard science right there, dog.



Because YOU are a soft pansy, and while others do the hard work and the dirty work to keep this country running safely, you sit there in Venice Beach with your dogs and say "Hey man, that's like, not cool how like the army uses waterboarding!!!!"

Oh good, back to your standard rhetoric. Guess what? YOU are a soft ass pansy.
You sit there (wherever you live these days) crying all day long about how the liberals are ruining this country that you love so much. You've obviously lived a very sheltered life, your opinions scratch the surface and offer no solutions, and you're a walking sandy ******. You can't think independently about anything which is why you spend all your time trying to compartmentalize everything into a generic partisan format so your pea brain can process the world through your narrow perspective. Someone is the least bit defiant towards your views and you instantly go into "you're a woman, you can't think for yourself, blah blah f*cking blah". You have no intellect, you're a fugazi with a numbingly dull set of automated responses. You are full time PMSing. Put a rag in it, sister.



GTFO. You're a woman with a beard. You're not equipped intellectually or hormonally to make challenging assertions or stick up for unpopular things. You hide behind the self-righteous, mob-think elitism of the peers in your city, in your work industry, in your age bracket and so forth because you aren't smart or articulate enough to see things in your own way. You aren't putting in work trying to understand and solve issues. You're sitting there weeping like a pvssy bitch and trying to be every human's personal babysitter. Great job. You're a mother. You've literally grown up to become a mother.

Way to go *****, you've managed to reinforce my point perfectly. You've got it in your head that I'm the exact same as everyone else who dares defy your hard reality. You're so callous, so cool, such a realist who demands accountability. Who's doing the weeping? Me? Hah. You really think you're "putting in the work trying to understand and solve issues"? You're an inarticulate broken record with no education and nothing to offer the world. You've literally grown up to become nothing. You're a goofy, lonely bitch.




http://www.quickmeme.com/img/98/982711896495e4a66160797cb2e511270e590aa257fd67898d bf02297ea06842.jpg


This is funny because you're the angriest one here. So betrayed by your own generation.


Sincerely,
Legend of Josh

[Akrazotile]

God, what a patriot you are. You're making a real difference in the world you CARE so much about by posting on a basketball message board all day. You're a real activist.



Bro, how are you going to take "stop saying the same thing over and over" and reply with the usual shit? You wanna talk about deluding yourself? Your embarrassingly undue sense of superiority is scary delusional. You're the only one who looks at reality, you. I know you're blissfully ignorant about yourself, but it would be amazing if you could "hear" yourself. You're a bad joke.




Is that what you do? You investigate why things work the way they do? :roll:



false.



false.



0 for 3. You're the kind of guy who is 30 years old and just posted a selfie of himself in his f*cking underwear on a basketball message board, fact. Oh yeah, I know, it's supposed to be funny. Congrats, it is.



false again. I'm glad you're caught up on my life in 2008 though. "rent free" as the kids say on here.




Oh yeah? You're up on the value of union film jobs? You don't think the percentage of the lucrative business we receive is fair? You probably know best.



I haven't taken unemployment insurance in years, because my union job pays enough that I don't need it in the off season. But yeah, when I was a PA and wasn't making shit I took it, a handful of months over 5 years. It was quite helpful. It's what it's there for. You don't like the system? You should change it by being an angry little man on a message board. Hashtag results. Also, I wasn't supporting dogs in those days. One was my girlfriend's and the other we got after we could afford to buy a house. That's what people do when they've contributed enough to the tax pool.



Sounds like you've really investigated the way things work. That's hard science right there, dog.




Oh good, back to your standard rhetoric. Guess what? YOU are a soft ass pansy.
You sit there (wherever you live these days) crying all day long about how the liberals are ruining this country that you love so much. You've obviously lived a very sheltered life, your opinions scratch the surface and offer no solutions, and you're a walking sandy ******. You can't think independently about anything which is why you spend all your time trying to compartmentalize everything into a generic partisan format so your pea brain can process the world through your narrow perspective. Someone is the least bit defiant towards your views and you instantly go into "you're a woman, you can't think for yourself, blah blah f*cking blah". You have no intellect, you're a fugazi with a numbingly dull set of automated responses. You are full time PMSing. Put a rag in it, sister.



Way to go *****, you've managed to reinforce my point perfectly. You've got it in your head that I'm the exact same as everyone else who dares defy your hard reality. You're so callous, so cool, such a realist who demands accountability. Who's doing the weeping? Me? Hah. You really think you're "putting in the work trying to understand and solve issues"? You're an inarticulate broken record with no education and nothing to offer the world. You've literally grown up to become nothing. You're a goofy, lonely bitch.




This is funny because you're the angriest one here. So betrayed by your own generation.


Sincerely,
Legend of Josh



LOL, such doofyness.

Have you ever noticed I'm only "angry" in the threads wherein hermaphrodyte poser males preach retarded, time-tested-and-failed political ideals? It's not MY fault you're soft bro. It's not MY fault you want to believe whatever sounds nicest in a perfect world. Of course I'm not always right, but I'm at least trying to take logically sound positions. You're trying to take positions that theorize everyone will be safe and happy if the whole world just sits in a circle smoking bud and strumming kumbaya on an acoustic guitar. Because that sounds cool. That's what would make everyone go "Hey, yeah, that was really nice what you just said there, bro. Really progressive and tolerant. Wow. I'm so impressed with your vision. Did you just think that up??" Good job. Take your positions to get the approval of your lame ass generic hipster peers. Oh and also of course to make your own self feel like the ultimate distributor of fairness and benevolence. "Oh look, there you go with your generalizations, tsk tsk tsk." Except you've been posting here for 7 years. I'm not labeling you based on one post, I'm describing you based on all of them.


You wanna jump on the "I'm liberal about everything!" train with other hipster pose-bags like Deucewallaces and boozehound, go ahead. Take positions designed to be a defensive mechanism for people ugly, sensitive, and looking for an opinion to repeat that will get others to like them. Not exactly a testament to the tradition of the male gender, but do what suits you.


Remember that time way back when I pm'd you to see if you wanted to get together and try to make some comedy videos and see what kinda fun stuff we could come up with and shoot? Create stuff, put it out there, pursue the dream. You said you had a group already that you were kinda busy doing that with, but thanks anyway. This was like 5 years ago or so. Got any links to some of your stuff?

[JtotheIzzo]

Norway is a small country that is extremely wealthy and very good at taking care of its people. It has a low crime rate and low recidivism.

So lets all judge them based on the one outlier in their entire penal system. Yay! Because countries like Canada and the US should really talk when it comes to how to run a prison.

This thread is ridiculous.

I agree this guy is getting off easy, but I don't think Norway should change what they are doing because of one man.

Sometimes life in nuanced.

[DeuceWallaces]

LOL, such doofyness.

Have you ever noticed I'm only "angry" in the threads wherein hermaphrodyte poser males preach retarded, time-tested-and-failed political ideals? It's not MY fault you're soft bro. It's not MY fault you want to believe whatever sounds nicest in a perfect world. Of course I'm not always right, but I'm at least trying to take logically sound positions. You're trying to take positions that theorize everyone will be safe and happy if the whole world just sits in a circle smoking bud and strumming kumbaya on an acoustic guitar. Because that sounds cool. That's what would make everyone go "Hey, yeah, that was really nice what you just said there, bro. Really progressive and tolerant. Wow. I'm so impressed with your vision. Did you just think that up??" Good job. Take your positions to get the approval of your lame ass generic hipster peers. Oh and also of course to make your own self feel like the ultimate distributor of fairness and benevolence. "Oh look, there you go with your generalizations, tsk tsk tsk." Except you've been posting here for 7 years. I'm not labeling you based on one post, I'm describing you based on all of them.


You wanna jump on the "I'm liberal about everything!" train with other hipster pose-bags like Deucewallaces and boozehound, go ahead. Take positions designed to be a defensive mechanism for people ugly, sensitive, and looking for an opinion to repeat that will get others to like them. Not exactly a testament to the tradition of the male gender, but do what suits you.


Remember that time way back when I pm'd you to see if you wanted to get together and try to make some comedy videos and see what kinda fun stuff we could come up with and shoot? Create stuff, put it out there, pursue the dream. You said you had a group already that you were kinda busy doing that with, but thanks anyway. This was like 5 years ago or so. Got any links to some of your stuff?

You don't care about this country. You don't care about anything. You're a ****ing loser-nobody with no ambition. I can't believe your dad keeps sending 'dem checks because I'd be incredibly disappointed if I were your father. ****, he must regret the day he pulled that 20 dollar bill out of his wallet and gave it to your "mom" down on Woodland Ave.

You're a lazy son of a bitch. You are everything you try to hate on in your posts; a loser with no education or career who just leaches off the system. You put nothing in; all you do is take. You probably pay no taxes. Probably riding the bus around all day. You can't afford a car, insurance, school, nothing. No ambition. Just a leach on society. Total ****ing dead weight. You spend all day on a basketball message board trying to come across as some sort of sociological expert, but you're really just a ****ing clown that all these losers even laugh at.

Do you realize what level shit-head no-good douchebag you have to be for losers like Jameer and I'm Still Ballin' to sit around and clown on you all day? It's amazing you keep coming back for more. But then again, you have nothing else. Your whole life is being clowned on the off topic forum of a basketball message board.

God damnit. Go back to school, find christ, do something. This is just embarrassing.

[tomtucker]

Bigger population=more assholes ruining things for everyone else.

You can't compare a population of 360 million to a country of 5 million like Norway or Denmark, or even 70 million like Germany.

That's what you need to understand.

It would be nice to project stats and everything, but it doesn't work out like that. If Norway had a population of 360 million their prison system and philosophy would not be what it is today.

If you are only 4 million people and have as much money as Norway does, it's easy to take their easy hippy philosophy and buy playstations for every prisoner and provide them with state of the art recording studios and en-suite "prison cells".

You need to understand that that philosophy doesn't scale for a population the size of the US.

Norway's system and government would fail miserably if they had to rule over 360+ million people as too many people would take advantage of the welfare system for it to be able to sustain itself.
exactly, and the funny thing is that Brevik knew this........that is why he hated/still hates to see his country ruined by imigrants, he decided to do something about it

[tomtucker]

Then of course you could say: why the hell did brevik go after his own countrymen and not muslim immigrants.....well, those he killed were part of a party/community who loved to see norway and the rest of europe taken over.......i belived brevik despised these traitors even more then those who flood europe.....because those are the worst, they are backstabbing tratiors to their own kind....

-
...what happened to the danish and norwegian citizens who welcomed the occupation and german soldiers in WW2.......there were called collaborators, and were rounded up and executed as soon as the war was over, and females who interacted with german soldiers had their hair cut off ..........collaborators was seen as the worst kind of scum, much worse then the common german soldier,

[Smook A.]

Now THAT is what you call "Prison Heaven" http://i.imgur.com/x8KrImg.gif

[oarabbus]

You don't care about this country. You don't care about anything. You're a ****ing loser-nobody with no ambition. I can't believe your dad keeps sending 'dem checks because I'd be incredibly disappointed if I were your father. ****, he must regret the day he pulled that 20 dollar bill out of his wallet and gave it to your "mom" down on Woodland Ave.

You're a lazy son of a bitch. You are everything you try to hate on in your posts; a loser with no education or career who just leaches off the system. You put nothing in; all you do is take. You probably pay no taxes. Probably riding the bus around all day. You can't afford a car, insurance, school, nothing. No ambition. Just a leach on society. Total ****ing dead weight. You spend all day on a basketball message board trying to come across as some sort of sociological expert, but you're really just a ****ing clown that all these losers even laugh at.

Do you realize what level shit-head no-good douchebag you have to be for losers like Jameer and I'm Still Ballin' to sit around and clown on you all day? It's amazing you keep coming back for more. But then again, you have nothing else. Your whole life is being clowned on the off topic forum of a basketball message board.

God damnit. Go back to school, find christ, do something. This is just embarrassing.

:eek:

[Nick Young]

so much vitriol and butthurt in this thread.






















































http://m.memegen.com/8wq2ys.jpg

[Dresta]

If Norway is too small, try Western Europe.

Western Europe population: 397 million
USA: 316 million

W. Europe lords over the US in QOL, infrastructure, social safety nets, crime, etc. Just flat out better.

Face it, conservatives and conservative states drag this nation down, stall its progress. We can't even get universal healthcare in this goddamn country because of these idiots. These friggin shills for corporate America. Mouth breathers who deny climate change, evolution, and basic economic principles. They hate welfare but won't raise the minimum wage, and they're STILL championing bigotry, misogyny, and homophobia in 2015. Issues that better countries (and liberal US strongholds) put to bed ages ago. Let the South secede, I say.
Congrats on out-stupiding everyone else in this thread with this gem of blazing ignorance. It's rare to see a post so dogmatic, and so delusional, even on here. It must be amazingly simple to live in a world where conservatives are this 'evil' force of retrogression and hatred (this seems to be the only point made in your post); to have such a clear enemy and force to hate, and to think them the cause of all evils and inequalities is the mindset of the moral fanatic, truly.

What in your rage you are incapable of realising is that all discourse in the United States is effectively liberal, and that libertarians, liberals, and conservatives all fit under the same general mantra of liberalism (a belief in universal rights, in democracy, and in equality of various sorts - either before the law, of opportunity, or even of conditions). These people all have pretty much the same ends in mind, they've simply discerned different means to achieve such ends: this does not make them 'shills for corporate America' and what not - this is the typical dehumanisation of the enemy that is so common among ideologues, and that prevents your sort from ever having to make an actual argument ('you don't believe as I do: you must be evil!!'). You also seem to be ignoring that state corporatism has always been a staple of modern progressivism. You see yourself diametrically opposed to American conservatism, whereas all i see is the narcissism of small differences :oldlol: .

Western Europe doesn't have a federalised 'universal healthcare system' either - do you know why? Because it would be a hopelessly inefficient waste of money. Not to mention that if the EU attempted to do such a thing no one would put up with it. Individual European states have their own healthcare systems, with some more effective than others (that's the great thing about allowing state experimentation). Pretty much all of Western Europe is currently mired in stagnation, and yet because they have safety nets they can't afford they are your idea of 'success.' Europe has been going through a sovereign debt crisis for years now; countries like Spain have youth unemployment around 50%, Italy and Greece and France ludicrous welfare systems no one wants to pay for (a growing crisis with no end in sight). I've lived and worked in the UK, US and Netherlands, and actually, there is far more opportunity over the Atlantic than in W. Europe (US or Canada).

As for economic principles: you seem to not understand even the simplest. You say your opponents 'hate welfare but won't raise the minimum wage' as if that is some kind of contradiction, when the minimum wage is a selective form of welfare, one that tends not to help those at the bottom, instead rendering them unemployed (all one needs to do is compare the black youth unemployment of the early 50s - when there was effectively no federal minimum wage - to what it later became, rather quickly too).

[YouGotServed]

Congrats on out-stupiding everyone else in this thread with this gem of blazing ignorance. It's rare to see a post so dogmatic, and so delusional, even on here. It must be amazingly simple to live in a world where conservatives are this 'evil' force of retrogression and hatred (this seems to be the only point made in your post); to have such a clear enemy and force to hate, and to think them the cause of all evils and inequalities is the mindset of the moral fanatic, truly.

What in your rage you are incapable of realising is that all discourse in the United States is effectively liberal, and that libertarians, liberals, and conservatives all fit under the same general mantra of liberalism (a belief in universal rights, in democracy, and in equality of various sorts - either before the law, of opportunity, or even of conditions). These people all have pretty much the same ends in mind, they've simply discerned different means to achieve such ends: this does not make them 'shills for corporate America' and what not - this is the typical dehumanisation of the enemy that is so common among ideologues, and that prevents your sort from ever having to make an actual argument ('you don't believe as I do: you must be evil!!'). You also seem to be ignoring that state corporatism has always been a staple of modern progressivism. You see yourself diametrically opposed to American conservatism, whereas all i see is the narcissism of small differences :oldlol: .

Western Europe doesn't have a federalised 'universal healthcare system' either - do you know why? Because it would be a hopelessly inefficient waste of money. Not to mention that if the EU attempted to do such a thing no one would put up with it. Individual European states have their own healthcare systems, with some more effective than others (that's the great thing about allowing state experimentation). Pretty much all of Western Europe is currently mired in stagnation, and yet because they have safety nets they can't afford they are your idea of 'success.' Europe has been going through a sovereign debt crisis for years now; countries like Spain have youth unemployment around 50%, Italy and Greece and France ludicrous welfare systems no one wants to pay for (a growing crisis with no end in sight). I've lived and worked in the UK, US and Netherlands, and actually, there is far more opportunity over the Atlantic than in W. Europe (US or Canada).

As for economic principles: you seem to not understand even the simplest. You say your opponents 'hate welfare but won't raise the minimum wage' as if that is some kind of contradiction, when the minimum wage is a selective form of welfare, one that tends not to help those at the bottom, instead rendering them unemployed (all one needs to do is compare the black youth unemployment of the early 50s - when there was effectively no federal minimum wage - to what it later became, rather quickly too).

http://i.minus.com/ibovNT1owp74ik.gif

[Blue&Orange]

You need to read my post again because you got it wrong. When I said mistreated and misdeveloped I meant the childhood of this hypothetical rogue person we were talking about.

I'm sorry does the current judicial system takes in account the upbringing of the people that commits a crime?


And yes, they are victims in a sense that they do not possess the traits that other humans do. Of course, it depends on the way you look at it. If a person flat out does not have a capacity for empathy for others - is he a victim?
SO you are ok with pedophiles? I mean it's no really their fault, their brain is wired to like small children and we all know how hard it is to fight sexual urges. Yes it depends the way you look at it, you fail to understand is that a crime was committed and a third party was harmed.


Corporal punishment or torture does help to erode any kind of stable human core that a person has. With torture along with other methods it is possible to deconstruct a human being and turn him into a puppet. Hence the term "brainwashing".
who talked about deconstruct or brainwash? again straw man arguments. It's like me saying a slap or two can do wonders for kids when they misbehave, and in your mind you see a drunk dad coming home everyday and hit his son for no reason. And guess what there's already brainwashing going on, inmates kinda find religion often on jail, and there is human deconstruction going on also.

this is boring...

If a drunk driver rammed you car and killed your son and daughter and someone gave you the choice of having him 10 years reading books and watching TV and go to the gym and 1 year of jail time with corporal punishment, what would you choose? be honest. If after a couple months someone ask you if you were ok with him being release, in what scenario do you think you would be ok with it? IF you were the criminal and someone ask you the same would you take 1 year or 10 years? And after being release what do you think would make you avoid drive drunk? 10 years reading books or those couple months getting equal measure in pain for the hurt you caused?

Again, inhuman and careless is to jail someone till he is 70 years old sometimes for split seconds bad decisions, he got shanked and raped couple time by other inmates, but hey no corporal punishment involved in the sentence.

Can we deal with real life instead of romantic ideals?

[Akrazotile]

You don't care about this country. You don't care about anything. You're a ****ing loser-nobody with no ambition. I can't believe your dad keeps sending 'dem checks because I'd be incredibly disappointed if I were your father. ****, he must regret the day he pulled that 20 dollar bill out of his wallet and gave it to your "mom" down on Woodland Ave.

You're a lazy son of a bitch. You are everything you try to hate on in your posts; a loser with no education or career who just leaches off the system. You put nothing in; all you do is take. You probably pay no taxes. Probably riding the bus around all day. You can't afford a car, insurance, school, nothing. No ambition. Just a leach on society. Total ****ing dead weight. You spend all day on a basketball message board trying to come across as some sort of sociological expert, but you're really just a ****ing clown that all these losers even laugh at.

Do you realize what level shit-head no-good douchebag you have to be for losers like Jameer and I'm Still Ballin' to sit around and clown on you all day? It's amazing you keep coming back for more. But then again, you have nothing else. Your whole life is being clowned on the off topic forum of a basketball message board.

God damnit. Go back to school, find christ, do something. This is just embarrassing.



Ah, the rage of a grown man with beta issues.

Look, I can't waste more time correcting your inaccuracies and then attacking you back. I've already spent too much time on it. I shouldn't have taken the time to do it with Lamar Doom, but I hadn't had it out with him in a while. But we all know the issues you have that cause you to be excruciatingly beta, so there's no need to rehash it.

And frankly, it's not like I care if you're a beta, a poser, a try-hard when it comes to talking about (and making up) your past experiences with drugs, women, your taste in movies and music etc, whatever. We've seen your pics. We know your basic story. You're a huge dork who's probably gotten picked on a lot in life. Issues with your parents and their own unwillingness to grow up. I don't revel in the fact you have these issues or care what you do about em.

But I just wish you'd lay off the political chiming in, because you're just TOO OLD to be a 'college liberal.' I know you think talking about how communism is hip makes you seem cool and edgy, but it doesn't. You look like "aging liberal hippie douche" from southpark. Stop hiding behind that stuff as an excuse not to face manhood. The only people who think acting like an extremist left winger makes you intelligent are other unathletic, unpopular, ugly, awkward betas like yourself. Stop using it as a substitute. A near middle-aged white man being a PC crybaby self-loathing weenie? That's horrible. I mean that's a real disgrace, and it obviously means you have serious issues. Talk that shit out with someone dude, and figure out how you can stop hiding behind things like "I'm liberal! I have an expensive education!" Your education is a fraud because everyone here knows you as the guy who argues with bitter one-liners and doesnt saying anything relevant. You're not educated, you just paid through the nose for a degree to hide behind. That's all you do, man, you hide. You hide behind pompous left-wing rhetoric. You hide behind insults during discussions of substance. You hide behind made up girlfriends, made up drug experiences. You hide behind the fact you have a degree nobody is impressed with. You're a beta. An insecure coward always hiding behind pretension.

I wish you'd let someone help you learn to be a real male for once. But in the meantime, don't ruin the country for everyone else, ok? Stay out of politics.

[kNIOKAS]

Uhh brother you pile up all kinds of talking points but they are all a mess. Didn't even align them properly. Do you really believe in what you say? Have you thought about it?


I'm sorry does the current judicial system takes in account the upbringing of the people that commits a crime?
It doesn't, and that contributes to the misunderstanding of differences between people that commit crimes. That in turn reduces the effectiveness of preventing crime and reabilitating criminals.


SO you are ok with pedophiles? I mean it's no really their fault, their brain is wired to like small children and we all know how hard it is to fight sexual urges. Yes it depends the way you look at it, you fail to understand is that a crime was committed and a third party was harmed.
That's a big strawman. Count two, matter of fact.



who talked about deconstruct or brainwash? again straw man arguments. It's like me saying a slap or two can do wonders for kids when they misbehave, and in your mind you see a drunk dad coming home everyday and hit his son for no reason. And guess what there's already brainwashing going on, inmates kinda find religion often on jail, and there is human deconstruction going on also.
Quite the opposite, no strawman here. Torturing anybody offers only negative consequences in terms of the strenght and will of the personality. Torturing adults that already have develeped in a certain way does absolutely no good. It's like wipping water for being wet. Prolonged torture would only deplete a persons moral or psychological backbone, which in case of attrocious crimes a person might not have had to begin with.



this is boring...

If a drunk driver rammed you car and killed your son and daughter and someone gave you the choice of having him 10 years reading books and watching TV and go to the gym and 1 year of jail time with corporal punishment, what would you choose? be honest. If after a couple months someone ask you if you were ok with him being release, in what scenario do you think you would be ok with it? IF you were the criminal and someone ask you the same would you take 1 year or 10 years? And after being release what do you think would make you avoid drive drunk? 10 years reading books or those couple months getting equal measure in pain for the hurt you caused?
We're talking about preventing crime and reabilitating the criminals. It has nothing to do with the perceptions of a victim party and their emotional response to the tragedy. You have it backwards here...

Also, we already talked about how a) other people might perceive the punishment and the deterrent differently than you b) how it may play only an insignificant part in commiting the crime, and how it may not be part of the motive of the decision making of that hypothetical criminal.


Again, inhuman and careless is to jail someone till he is 70 years old sometimes for split seconds bad decisions, he got shanked and raped couple time by other inmates, but hey no corporal punishment involved in the sentence.
It is horrible to jail someone for that amount of the time. It should only be done in cases where there is no way to reabilitate the criminal. Often, that's not the case because it's way easier to just lock somebody up and not care. That's the reality.

I can barely see where any kind of corporal punishment could do any good. Maybe it would work for the pettiest of the crimes, committed by the very regular people... But probably not. Other than that - it's more damaging than helpful.


Can we deal with real life instead of romantic ideals?
I wish it to be this way. But in order to get acquanted with the real life, you need to renew your conceptions of the psychology of the criminal. Then we could talk.

[Akrazotile]

Uhh brother you pile up all kinds of talking points but they are all a mess. Didn't even align them properly. Do you really believe in what you say? Have you thought about it?


It doesn't, and that contributes to the misunderstanding of differences between people that commit crimes. That in turn reduces the effectiveness of preventing crime and reabilitating criminals.


That's a big strawman. Count two, matter of fact.



Quite the opposite, no strawman here. Torturing anybody offers only negative consequences in terms of the strenght and will of the personality. Torturing adults that already have develeped in a certain way does absolutely no good. It's like wipping water for being wet. Prolonged torture would only deplete a persons moral or psychological backbone, which in case of attrocious crimes a person might not have had to begin with.



We're talking about preventing crime and reabilitating the criminals. It has nothing to do with the perceptions of a victim party and their emotional response to the tragedy. You have it backwards here...

Also, we already talked about how a) other people might perceive the punishment and the deterrent differently than you b) how it may play only an insignificant part in commiting the crime, and how it may not be part of the motive of the decision making of that hypothetical criminal.


It is horrible to jail someone for that amount of the time. It should only be done in cases where there is no way to reabilitate the criminal. Often, that's not the case because it's way easier to just lock somebody up and not care. That's the reality.

I can barely see where any kind of corporal punishment could do any good. Maybe it would work for the pettiest of the crimes, committed by the very regular people... But probably not. Other than that - it's more damaging than helpful.


I wish it to be this way. But in order to get acquanted with the real life, you need to renew your conceptions of the psychology of the criminal. Then we could talk.



Idealized gobbledygook.

First of all, Norway is a much, much different place than the US. Someone there who commits a crime is much less likely to be a "career criminal" and just thought they could get away with something once, or is perhaps just someone with psychological/behavioral problems. In these cases it may work to slap the relatively low number of criminals on the wrist and try to teach them better.

In America, there are too many people, and there's too much economic disparity. People here commit crimes for economic reasons, not because they're "dysfunctional and need rehabilitation." Slapping those people on the wrist will not deter them. You need strong deterrents that make committing crimes not worth the risk. Again, comparing Norway and the US is like comparing Beverly Hills and Detroit. It's easy to point to one place and say "Well see how easy and effective they make it look, why can't that work everywhere!!!!!"

Because the population of Detroit is not like Beverly Hills, and neither is the culture, and nor is the income level. They're different places. You wanna be a fairy boy in a fairy world and act like a 1 month long kumbaya session will keep people away from committing crimes again? It's embarrassing. I know you want to be the glorified leader of the liberal revolution, and that's why you're stuck on pretending all this fantasy stuff is just a policy-change away from utopian reality, but it's not. You're just naive, oversensitive, and needy. That's where your irrational outlook comes from.

[kNIOKAS]

Idealized gobbledygook.

First of all, Norway is a much, much different place than the US. Someone there who commits a crime is much less likely to be a "career criminal" and just thought they could get away with something once, or is perhaps just someone with psychological/behavioral problems. In these cases it may work to slap the relatively low number of criminals on the wrist and try to teach them better.

In America, there are too many people, and there's too much economic disparity. People here commit crimes for economic reasons, not because they're "dysfunctional and need rehabilitation." Slapping those people on the wrist will not deter them. You need strong deterrents that make committing crimes not worth the risk. Again, comparing Norway and the US is like comparing Beverly Hills and Detroit. It's easy to point to one place and say "Well see how easy and effective they make it look, why can't that work everywhere!!!!!"

Because the population of Detroit is not like Beverly Hills, and neither is the culture, and nor is the income level. They're different places. You wanna be a fairy boy in a fairy world and act like a 1 month long kumbaya session will keep people away from committing crimes again? It's embarrassing. I know you want to be the glorified leader of the liberal revolution, and that's why you're stuck on pretending all this fantasy stuff is just a policy-change away from utopian reality, but it's not. You're just naive, oversensitive, and needy. That's where your irrational outlook comes from.
There you go, hinting about how to solve (at least to the Norwegian levels) the crime problem: ease up the economic disparity. Lessen the tentions. Raise them correctly so they don't turn on themselves like peope in the poorest communities do. Provide them with tools to cope with their lives, either economic or social or psychologic.

You made a good post, strangely.

[Akrazotile]

There you go, hinting about how to solve (at least to the Norwegian levels) the crime problem: ease up the economic disparity. Lessen the tentions. Raise them correctly so they don't turn on themselves like peope in the poorest communities do. Provide them with tools to cope with their lives, either economic or social or psychologic.

You made a good post, strangely.



Well of course these are the things that prevent crime. The problem is, the left isn't serious about achieving them in a realistic way here in America. They think forcibly redistributing money and waving a magic wand will turn us into Norway :facepalm

[kNIOKAS]

Well of course these are the things that prevent crime. The problem is, the left isn't serious about achieving them in a realistic way here in America. They think forcibly redistributing money and waving a magic wand will turn us into Norway :facepalm
Do you have the left in America? Please get me acquainted with it.

Well money is not going to redistribute itself, so I guess all the ways would be "forced" in a sense. It has to be done structually, systematically and along with the political will of politicians, the conscious will of the people as well as with changing the current set of finiancial incentives, at least. Not a specific recommendation but the one that emphasizes the complexity of the problem. We may agree on that once again, somehow.

[Akrazotile]

Do you have the left in America? Please get me acquainted with it.

Well money is not going to redistribute itself, so I guess all the ways would be "forced" in a sense. It has to be done structually, systematically and along with the political will of politicians, the conscious will of the people as well as with changing the current set of finiancial incentives, at least. Not a specific recommendation but the one that emphasizes the complexity of the problem. We may agree on that once again, somehow.


It really doesn't have to be that complicated.

There are many decent paying jobs you can get even without extensive education or a privileged upbringing.

You can work for the postal service. You can work in construction. You can sell cars. You can be a police officer. You can work your way up to management in food/hospitality.

Money will be "redistributed" to you in the form of a pay check. You save that money. It grows. You don't spend money on $120 sneakers when you're 22 years old and have 400 dollars in your bank account. You don't go robbing liquor stores or assaulting strangers and being forced to spend time in prison or pay off fines/restitution.

You continue to educate yourself while you work. Develop skills. Have goals. Stay out of trouble.


These are all really simple concepts that people can either choose to follow or not. Just because many choose NOT to follow them, does not mean we need to brainstorm some elaborate, harebrained alternatives to providing everyone a stable life. People have the freedom to make bad decisions. The ensuing consequences will hopefully inspire them to change their habits, or at least provide a warning to others. We can't turn all of civilization upside down trying to make sure bad decisions never result in misfortune.

[kNIOKAS]

It really doesn't have to be that complicated.

There are many decent paying jobs you can get even without extensive education or a privileged upbringing.

You can work for the postal service. You can work in construction. You can sell cars. You can be a police officer. You can work your way up to management in food/hospitality.

Money will be "redistributed" to you in the form of a pay check. You save that money. It grows. You don't spend money on $120 sneakers when you're 22 years old and have 400 dollars in your bank account. You don't go robbing liquor stores or assaulting strangers and being forced to spend time in prison or pay off fines/restitution.

You continue to educate yourself while you work. Develop skills. Have goals. Stay out of trouble.


These are all really simple concepts that people can either choose to follow or not. Just because many choose NOT to follow them, does not mean we need to brainstorm some elaborate, harebrained alternatives to providing everyone a stable life. People have the freedom to make bad decisions. The ensuing consequences will hopefully inspire them to change their habits, or at least provide a warning to others. We can't turn all of civilization upside down trying to make sure bad decisions never result in misfortune.
You are not educated about the human psychology to speak on this subject.:no:

[NumberSix]

It doesn't, and that contributes to the misunderstanding of differences between people that commit crimes. That in turn reduces the effectiveness of preventing crime and reabilitating criminals.
So, that whole "justice is blind" is a bad thing, huh? That "all men are equal in the eyes of the law" should just be thrown out the window?

Yes, there needs to be different rules for people of different backgrounds. Of course. You can't have people of different races being judged by the same standard. Well that would just be, racist. You can't have poor people and rich people being judged by the same standard.

When will people understand that the only way we can all be equal is to treat people differently? It's like, duh.

[Akrazotile]

You are not educated about the human psychology to speak on this subject.:no:


This is the problem.

You probably have 8 years and $100k worth of indoctrination of speculative "academic psychology" and very little understanding of the practical world.

[ThePhantomCreep]

Well of course these are the things that prevent crime. The problem is, the left isn't serious about achieving them in a realistic way here in America. They think forcibly redistributing money and waving a magic wand will turn us into Norway :facepalm

Conservatives think turning the US into a plutocracy is a noble thing. It's not.

Supply side economics (aka: wealth redistribution to the top) has proven to be a massive failure, but the Bushbots keep championing it. As a result, the wealth gap has grown, and our middle class has shrunk.

You know there's something wrong when the US has more billionaires than all of Europe (population: 742 million). The rich get richer, the poor and middle class get poorer... thanks to conservative economic policies.

[NumberSix]

Conservatives think turning the US into a plutocracy is a noble thing. It's not.

Supply side economics (aka: wealth redistribution to the top) has proven to be a massive failure, but the Bushbots keep championing it. As a result, the wealth gap has grown, and our middle class has shrunk.

You know there's something wrong when the US has more billionaires than all of Europe (population: 742 million). The rich get richer, the poor and middle class get poorer... thanks to conservative economic policies.
What are "conservative economic policies"?

[ThePhantomCreep]

What are "conservative economic policies"?

Trickle-down economics. Tax the rich at really low rates, and hope their wealth trickles down to the rest of us. It doesn't work, it never has. The money usually just sits in their bank accounts instead of circulating through the economy. Look how much wealth has filtered to the top since the 80s, it's incredible:

http://currydemocrats.org/in_perspective/income_distribution_over_time.jpg



You seriously don't know this?

Your boy Bush cut taxes (that mostly favored the wealthy) while starting two wars that he put on a credit card. Brilliant stuff, really.
See the massive debt that accumulated as a result? You can thank conservative economic principles for most of it.

[NumberSix]

Trickle-down economics. Tax the rich at really low rates, and hope their wealth trickles down to the rest of us. It doesn't work, it never has. The money usually just sits in their bank accounts instead of circulating through the economy. Look how much wealth has filtered to the top since the 80s, it's incredible:

http://currydemocrats.org/in_perspective/income_distribution_over_time.jpg



You seriously don't know this?

Your boy Bush cut taxes (that mostly favored the wealthy) while starting two wars that he put on a credit card. Brilliant stuff, really.
See the massive debt that accumulated as a result? You can thank conservative economic principles for most of it.
What is it that you think the word "conservative" means?

[ThePhantomCreep]

What is it that you think the word "conservative" means?

It's southern for "crappy economic, social and foreign policies".

[Akrazotile]

Conservatives think turning the US into a plutocracy is a noble thing. It's not.

Supply side economics (aka: wealth redistribution to the top) has proven to be a massive failure, but the Bushbots keep championing it. As a result, the wealth gap has grown, and our middle class has shrunk.

You know there's something wrong when the US has more billionaires than all of Europe (population: 742 million). The rich get richer, the poor and middle class get poorer... thanks to conservative economic policies.



If you develop some skills, work hard, and save money you'll be okay in a supply side economic model.

Why are you so concerned with having the government breastfeed everyone into mental stagnation? Just hand out ditch digging jobs so everyone gets a paycheck, huh? Nobody has to think, nobody has to aspire, nobody has to improve. Just take from a few achievers and bird feed all your comrades, eh?

Basically you want to unionize human society, so that all the Eddy Curry's don't have to earn what they get, they can just feed off Lebron.

Unless you're one of these dumb and incapable Eddy Curry's, it's illogical for you to be so obsessed with what other people are making or not making. What is your obsession with nurturing every human in the country? Is it like how empty nest mothers like to take care of the neighbors kids? It makes you feel wanted, needed? Makes you feel like you matter?

I say just get a hobby :confusedshrug:

[kNIOKAS]

If you develop some skills, work hard, and save money you'll be okay in a supply side economic model.

Why are you so concerned with having the government breastfeed everyone into mental stagnation? Just hand out ditch digging jobs so everyone gets a paycheck, huh? Nobody has to think, nobody has to aspire, nobody has to improve. Just take from a few achievers and bird feed all your comrades, eh?

Basically you want to unionize human society, so that all the Eddy Curry's don't have to earn what they get, they can just feed off Lebron.

Unless you're one of these dumb and incapable Eddy Curry's, it's illogical for you to be so obsessed with what other people are making or not making. What is your obsession with nurturing every human in the country? Is it like how empty nest mothers like to take care of the neighbors kids? It makes you feel wanted, needed? Makes you feel like you matter?

I say just get a hobby :confusedshrug:
This is as disturbing as hobo porno.

Look, you're neither rich, smart or privileged. Why do you promote the ideology that works for the rich and turn the poor people against themselves? Stockholm syndrome much?

[NumberSix]

This is as disturbing as hobo porno.

Look, you're neither rich, smart or privileged. Why do you promote the ideology that works for the rich and turn the poor people against themselves? Stockholm syndrome much?
What do you value more, freedom or security?

[Dresta]

Conservatives think turning the US into a plutocracy is a noble thing. It's not.

Supply side economics (aka: wealth redistribution to the top) has proven to be a massive failure, but the Bushbots keep championing it. As a result, the wealth gap has grown, and our middle class has shrunk.

You know there's something wrong when the US has more billionaires than all of Europe (population: 742 million). The rich get richer, the poor and middle class get poorer... thanks to conservative economic policies.


Trickle-down economics. Tax the rich at really low rates, and hope their wealth trickles down to the rest of us. It doesn't work, it never has. The money usually just sits in their bank accounts instead of circulating through the economy. Look how much wealth has filtered to the top since the 80s, it's incredible:

http://currydemocrats.org/in_perspective/income_distribution_over_time.jpg

You seriously don't know this?

Your boy Bush cut taxes (that mostly favored the wealthy) while starting two wars that he put on a credit card. Brilliant stuff, really.
See the massive debt that accumulated as a result? You can thank conservative economic principles for most of it.
Erm.. this post is still applicable to the absurd nonsense you are peddling in this thread:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11362752&postcount=130

You use the word 'conservative' with the arrogant flippancy of someone who is clearly ignorant of the ideas behind conservative thought. For you, conservative is simply synonymous with bad, and so anyone who you don't like you can call conservative and be done with it. Whose 'boy' is Bush exactly? He was a champion of 'compassionate' conservatism, federal spending and federal subsidy - these things you call 'conservative?' Ideological wars abroad fought for the sake of regime change, removing a tyrant, and spreading democracy, widely backed by liberals and former liberals (neo-cons, most of whom are former Trotskyists - 'conservative' - :roll:). Your rubbish is downright laughable.

Conservatives want to turn the US into a 'plutocracy' do they? I think you'll find that conservatives tend to think liberals are creating an ossified plutocracy through statist manipulation of the economy (to grant favours to interested groups), and liberals tend to think cons are deregulating their way to a plutocracy. If you can't understand this fundamental division then you do not understand US politics in the slightest. If you want to actually get an idea for conservative thought, and not simply dismiss it all in a breath of child-like arrogance, without ever having learnt anything about it, I suggest you read Russell Kirk (a very interesting thinker really, who wrote this about the first gulf war, for example):


Presidents Woodrow Wilson, Franklin Roosevelt, and Lyndon Johnson were enthusiasts for American domination of the world. Now George Bush appears to be emulating those eminent Democrats. When the Republicans, once upon a time, nominated for the presidency a "One World" candidate, Wendell Willkie, they were sadly trounced. In general, Republicans throughout the twentieth century have been advocates of prudence and restraint in the conduct of foreign affairs.

Unless the Bush Administration abruptly reverses its fiscal and military course, I suggest, the Republican Party must lose its former good repute for frugality, and become the party of profligate expenditure, "butter and guns." And public opinion would not long abide that. Nor would America's world influence and America's remaining prosperity.

Yet presidents of the United States must not be encouraged to make Perpetual War for Perpetual Peace, nor to fancy that they can establish a New World Order through eliminating dissenters. In the second century before Christ, the Romans generously liberated the Greek city-states from the yoke of Macedonia. But it was not long before the Romans felt it necessary to impose upon those quarrelsome Greeks a domination more stifling to Hellenic freedom and culture than ever Macedon had been. It is a duty of the Congress of the United States to see that great American Caesars do not act likewise.

- 1992
So yeah, there wasn't much 'conservative' at all about the Bush administration, and post Cold War presidents have all been of the same ilk (Clinton cut welfare more than Bush ever did).

Get this? Conservatives, they tend to like to conserve, not to move to quickly, to prefer gradual change to revolution. Neoconservatives don't have much conservatism about them at all - just a bunch of former liberals and ex-Trots who've realised the welfare state to be a failure, but who still want to change the world 'for the better' (so they say).

This is as disturbing as hobo porno.

Look, you're neither rich, smart or privileged. Why do you promote the ideology that works for the rich and turn the poor people against themselves? Stockholm syndrome much?
Perhaps because his political opinions aren't determined by his income bracket? Maybe he doesn't see the world divided into rich vs. poor like you do? I know, i know, this doesn't make any sense to you, considering you basically think human beings are a sort of innocent blank-slate at birth. In Marxist lingo he is evidently suffering 'false consciousness' (or yes, 'Stockholm Syndrome'). Tell me this: why must you pathologize those who disagree with your point of view - why must they be mentally deranged to find what you say absurd? Wait, i know! Is it because your ideology posits a monolithic conception of the world where anyone who doesn't fit the schematic formulae is dismissed as a shill or a stooge for the propertied elites? Sounds like Marxism to me.

It's interesting how much Marxist tactics and its rigid modes of thinking have filtered into the minds of people who have never read Marx, funny too :lol - your ignorant certainty amuses me.


What do you value more, freedom or security?
Silly question: for people of his stripe, security is freedom. They don't need to stick to traditional definitions, but can simply invert the meaning of things; hence 'positive liberty or freedom' - a turn of phrase that effectively conflated the different concepts of freedom and power into meaning the same thing. No wonder you can't argue with these people: their language is ass-backwards, and they can't even think coherently.

[rufuspaul]

I'm pretty sure Europe can take care of itself just fine.


:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[Lamar Doom]

I'm not labeling you based on one post, I'm describing you based on all of them.


You wanna jump on the "I'm liberal about everything!"


Well I don't think your reading comprehension skills are very strong then. I'm hardly "liberal about everything", I'm able to think independently about issues without having to make everything into this generic, black and white "liberal vs conservative" format. I have friends that would be considered very conservative and some very liberal and I can hear their opinions without getting on a high horse and pigeonholing everyone into absolute, omni-consistent categories. That's called being a sensible adult. But I had a different opinion than you on gay marriage so I must want to smoke pot in a drum circle, redistribute the wealth equally to everyone while letting criminals out of jail (except those corporate monsters!). Sober logic man, can't wait to read your manifesto.





You probably have 8 years and $100k worth of indoctrination of speculative "academic psychology" and very little understanding of the practical world.


This stuff cracks me up. Kid fails/drops out of college so obviously higher education is pointless. Oh, it's just liberal indoctrination, they couldn't teach me anything I couldn't learn on my own. I'm a self made man! You should get a look at my understanding of the practical world :oldlol:
Gotta give it to him, he gets an A+ in copping out and justifying shit to himself




http://s30.postimg.org/4akflie7l/Certificate_Magic_04_26_57_Page_1.jpg

[kurple]

edit: and just reading the last few pages of this thread it is striking how many people take the side of rather nauseating criminals over the victims, and consider the suffering and rehabilitation of the former as more important than the psychic wellbeing of the latter. Think how many families have to live with the knowledge that the man who destroyed their lives looks to be being rewarded for doing so :lol

It is incredible that these 'all-so-humane' defenders of Norway's completely absurd system care not a single whit for these people, but some are actually concerned with the rehabilitation of Brevik. You're welling up in pity for all criminals (of the worst stripe), and applauding your humanity for doing so. Oh, how muddled these silly people and their petty moral systems have become!

you really are a piece of shit. i hope you know that

this system isnt built for one person. how ****ing stupid would it be to build a legal system around one person?

what about all the other prisoners who benefit from rehabilitation? Not every convics is a burden for the society. or at least they dont have to be

and to say that the system and norwegian people dont care a single whit for the people affected by the Breivik shooting, is one of the most ignorant things i've ever read. And i've been on ISH since 09, i've seen my fair share


Americans are still living in the 80's

[Nick Young]

Are you happy knowing that your tax money is funding Anders Breivik's lifestyle of playing counter strike and dota and eating orange sorbet every day?

[kurple]

if i ever fall on hard times I should go to norway and rape some beautiful Norwegian women so that i can enjoy their luxury prisons.
umm, you need to be a citezen to get locked up here. Good luck getting a citizenship here

you would just be sent back to the shithole you came from



are people really this stupid? do they not think that the Norwegian legal system havent thought of shit like that?

[kurple]

[QUOTE=Nanners]random comment made by a norwegian citizen

"In the safest, most boring country, the worst lone gunman shooting happens. The worst in the world, in history. But it will not make our country worse. The safe, boring democracy will supply him with a defense lawyer as is his right. He will not get more than 21 years in prison as is the maximum extent of the law. Our democracy does not allow for enough punishment to satisfy my need for revenge, as is its intention. We will not become worse, we will be better. We lived in a land where this is possible, even easy. And we will keep living in a land where this is possible, even easy. We are open, we are free and we are together. We are vulnerable by choice. And we will keep on like that, that

[kurple]

exactly, and the funny thing is that Brevik knew this........that is why he hated/still hates to see his country ruined by imigrants, he decided to do something about it
i'm confused. sounds like you agree with him

Norway needs immigrants... Breivik was just an uneducated racist

[kurple]

Are you happy knowing that your tax money is funding Anders Breivik's lifestyle of playing counter strike and dota and eating orange sorbet every day?
I'm happy i live in Norway and not some shithole ally in Cali or whatever

You cant expect every person to agree with every law or system. But i actually really like the scadinavian legal system, as its much better for 95% of all convicts

tho as i said earlier, I wouldnt hate it if Breivik was cemented in the streets for everyone to take a dump on


and bro. we have money, plenty of money. i'm happy to pay my taxes. and its pointless to go around complaing about what they spend that money on.

[NumberSix]

i'm confused. sounds like you agree with him

Norway needs immigrants... Breivik was just an uneducated racist
Why exactly? :confusedshrug:

People are all the same, aren't they? Norway has people, doesn't it?

Or do non-Norwegians have something special about them that native Norwegians don't have that Norway is in need of?

[kurple]

Why exactly? :confusedshrug:

People are all the same, aren't they? Norway has people, doesn't it?

Or do non-Norwegians have something special about them that native Norwegians don't have that Norway is in need of?
to work? we literally dont have enough people to fill all the jobs needed

[dunksby]

where did you get this? i would think that most Norwegians would know that 21 years is not the maximum amount of years you can spend in jail here
Anybody who followed his court sessions and read the ruling already knows it, Lopez here just copy pastes the most stupid shit he finds on reddit, since that's what attracts him.

[kurple]

so much stupidity in this thread. maybe the american education system is more broken than their legal system

i wonder how many non mexican americans in this thread knows a 2nd language

[NumberSix]

to work? we literally dont have enough people to fill all the jobs needed
So you must have 0% unemployment in Norway. Wow. That's pretty impressive. What jobs are needed that currently aren't filled?

[dunksby]

i'm confused. sounds like you agree with him

Norway needs immigrants... Breivik was just an uneducated racist

It was reported in November 2014 that Breivik is moved back and forth between the Ila and Skien prisons. The reason is to relieve the guards from the difficult stress of dealing with a "manipulative" convicted terrorist. Breivik continues to receive (and reply to) large amounts of fan mail from admirers around the world.
:hammerhead:

[Derka]

so much stupidity in this thread. maybe the american education system is more broken than their legal system

i wonder how many non mexican americans in this thread knows a 2nd language

Dude...you have no idea.

[Nick Young]

Knowing a second language is not a sign of intelligence. It is more about learning it early. In the US education system, second languages are not taught until later in life, when the brain has developed past the point when the language will stick.

If we started teaching our kids second languages when they're 5, there would be just as many bilingual people in USA as there are in Europe.

Being bi-lingual is not a sign of intelligence. This has more to do with politics than anything else. If Americans needed to know a second language to succeed in the work place, like many Europeans who need to know English, we would teach our kids that second language.

[dunksby]

So you must have 0% unemployment in Norway. Wow. That's pretty impressive. What jobs are needed that currently aren't filled?
Scandinavian countries have an old population overall, example. (http://www.indexmundi.com/sweden/age_structure.html)

[kurple]

So you must have 0% unemployment in Norway. Wow. That's pretty impressive. What jobs are needed that currently aren't filled?
of course we dont have 0% uneomplyment in Norway. But i aint gonna try to explain it to you

it would be like trying to explain to my dog how odds work

[Nick Young]

Norwegians don't want to be janitors and sewage workers. Norway needs immigrants to work these jobs that they don't want to work.


How progressive:roll:

[kurple]

Norwegians don't want to be janitors and sewage workers. Norway needs immigrants to work these jobs that they don't want to work.


How progressive:roll:
is it not better that they work as a janitor, while most likely making more money than you will ever do, than being followed in Somalia or whatever counrty they came from?

At least we take in refugees

[kurple]

whats the minimum wage in the states?

most janitors make at least 20 usd an hour here

[NumberSix]

Knowing a second language is not a sign of intelligence. It is more about learning it early. In the US education system, second languages are not taught until later in life, when the brain has developed past the point when the language will stick.

If we started teaching our kids second languages when they're 5, there would be just as many bilingual people in USA as there are in Europe.

Being bi-lingual is not a sign of intelligence. This has more to do with politics than anything else. If Americans needed to know a second language to succeed in the work place, like many Europeans who need to know English, we would teach our kids that second language.
That's exactly it.

Us English speakers already speak the dominant language of international business. If English isn't your first language, which language to choose as a second language is a no brainer. For us english speakers, what would be the obvious second language to pick up? Every other language is regional with limited use.

[NumberSix]

of course we dont have 0% uneomplyment in Norway. But i aint gonna try to explain it to you

it would be like trying to explain to my dog how odds work
So what are the jobs in need of filling?

I haven't insulted your intelligence so I don't see why you feel a need to insult mine. If you simply can't explain it, that's fine. Nobody is an expert at everything.

[Nick Young]

If the US had a population of 5 million people and all the oil money Norway does, we could easily do the same. In Alaska for example, every resident does get a yearly government payout of $1,884 simply living in Alaska.

It is easy to give government handouts when your nation is super rich and has a tiny population.

The cost of everything in Norway is also much higher. A burger meal at McDonalds does not cost $12 in the US like it does in Norway for example. A single can of beer in the supermarket does not cost $7 like it does in Norway. Alaska has a population of only 700,000 but the cost of living is not as ridiculously high as it is in Norway.


So yes, Norwegian minimum wage is higher than American minimum wage-but if you adjust it for cost of living, it is basically the same. $5 gets you a burger meal in the US, $12 gets you a cheap burger meal in Norway.

[NumberSix]

whats the minimum wage in the states?

most janitors make at least 20 usd an hour here
Who cares what amount of money they make if the CPI isn't the same.

I don't claim to know the value of money in Norway. It's outside of my knowledge. I highly doubt that janitors there make the equivalent of $20 an hour adjusted for inflation.

[dunksby]

That's exactly it.

Us English speakers already speak the dominant language of international business. If English isn't your first language, which language to choose as a second language is a no brainer. For us english speakers, what would be the obvious second language to pick up? Every other language is regional with limited use.
Aren't most government employees, like the Police, nurses, docs etc got to learn Spanish in California or Florida? It might not be obligatory but it helps a lot.

[LJJ]

:hammerhead:

See that's the type of thing I don't agree with.

I don't think Breivik needs to be tortured. Or put in a 3x3m concrete box with nothing for the rest of his life, like they do in the US. That's nonsense. Let him have his books, his tv, his videogames that he pays for himself. Let him have his exercise.

He's a person who is irredeemably broken mentally and needs to be dealt with from that perspective, not from the perspective of vengeance. He should have lost his right to participate in society. Unless it's mommy or daddy or some kind of direct family, no letters, no contact. No going to college. No communication with the outside world. No contact with anyone but his family and people operating in the prison in a professional capacity. And no returning to society, ever.

People who do return to society one day, like your average rapist, your average murderer. They deserve appropriate punishment and retribution for what they've done. US is too much into the direction of punishment, Norway is too much into the direction for rehabilitation without any penance or guilt.

[Nick Young]

Who cares what amount of money they make if the CPI isn't the same.
Forreal. It doesn't cost $7 for a can of beer from 7-11 in the US like it does in Norway.

[Nick Young]

Aren't most government employees, like the Police, nurses, docs etc got to learn Spanish in California or Florida? It might not be obligatory but it helps a lot.
It's helpful but not mandatory. English is the official language of the United States, so by law government employees only NEED to know English.

Also, not every kid is going to grow up to be a government employee, so why spend money educating every Floridian and Californian kid to speak Spanish? Lettuce be real. It's not like Mexico and South America and Spain have bustling economies that our citizens could benefit from.

If Norwegians on the other hand want to get out of Norway, or even if they're in Norway and doing business with someone outside of Norway, they NEED to know another language. That is why they put so much emphasis in to teaching their kids English.

[BlakFrankWhite]

but why?

[Dresta]

you really are a piece of shit. i hope you know that

this system isnt built for one person. how ****ing stupid would it be to build a legal system around one person?

what about all the other prisoners who benefit from rehabilitation? Not every convics is a burden for the society. or at least they dont have to be

and to say that the system and norwegian people dont care a single whit for the people affected by the Breivik shooting, is one of the most ignorant things i've ever read. And i've been on ISH since 09, i've seen my fair share


Americans are still living in the 80's
I'd be really interested to see the train of thought that led from what you quoted to the above spew of vomit you call a post. You really haven't commented on anything i've said, and when you did, you simply lied about what i said (i was talking about people in this thread, not Norwegians: that was explicit, so you really need to learn to read before getting all outraged and butthurt).

Each sentence of your post is a different and substance less rhetorical technique:

1st paragraph: emotional ad hominem attack (and no, i don't know, thanks, but at least i don't need to demonise people i don't know on the internet so as to feel better about my own moral conduct - as you are clearly doing).

2nd paragraph: straw-man (who was suggesting building a legal system around one person? :roll:)

3rd paragraph: red herring (some prisoners benefitting from rehabilitation has nothing to do with the Brevik case).

4th paragraph: an outright lie.

5th paragraph: an irrelevancy - what do the 80s have to do with anything? I'm not American either.

Take your childish bs elsewhere. I don't have time for irritating cockchafers who can't construct even the simplest of arguments.


And then reading the rest of your posts: why are you comparing your tiny and irrelevant country to the United States? If you applied the Norwegian system in America, it would result in cataclysmic disaster (There's a big difference between 5 million - basically a city - and 350million - basically a continent). Yet, if it weren't for these larger and more unequal powers (because there is always more inequality in larger nations, even the Soviet Union), Norwegians would not be allowed the oil-enriched and spoilt existences you all now currently enjoy. Instead of being grateful for this, you come on here and tell everyone else how thick they are for not copying Norway (and i can't think the Norwegian education system is all that impressive if it managed to produce as big an idiot as yourself).

[NumberSix]

It's helpful but not mandatory. English is the official language of the United States, so by law government employees only NEED to know English.

Also, not every kid is going to grow up to be a government employee, so why spend money educating every Floridian and Californian kid in Spanish? Lettuce be real. It's not like Mexico and South America and Spain have bustling economies that our citizens could benefit from.

If Norwegians on the other hand want to get out of Norway, or even if they're in Norway and doing business with someone outside of Norway, they NEED to know another language. That is why they put so much emphasis in to teaching their kids English.
The United States technically doesn't have an official language.

[Nick Young]

The United States technically doesn't have an official language.
We best make it English ASAP.

[Nick Young]

I'd be really interested to see the train of thought that led from what you quoted to the above spew of vomit you call a post. You really haven't commented on anything i've said, and when you did, you simply lied about what i said (i was talking about people in this thread, not Norwegians: that was explicit, so you really need to learn to read before getting all outraged and butthurt).

Each sentence of your post is a different and substance less rhetorical technique:

1st paragraph: emotional ad hominem attack (and no, i don't know, thanks, but at least i don't need to demonise people i don't know on the internet so as to feel better about my own moral conduct - as you are clearly doing).

2nd paragraph: straw-man (who was suggesting building a legal system around one person? :roll:)

3rd paragraph: red herring (some prisoners benefitting from rehabilitation has nothing to do with the Brevik case).

4th paragraph: an outright lie.

5th paragraph: an irrelevancy - what do the 80s have to do with anything? I'm not American either.

Take your childish bs elsewhere. I don't have time for irritating cockchafers who can't construct even the simplest of arguments.


And then reading the rest of your posts: why are you comparing your tiny and irrelevant country to the United States? If you applied the Norwegian system in America, it would result in cataclysmic disaster (There's a big difference between 5 million - basically a city - and 350million - basically a continent). Yet, if it weren't for these larger and more unequal powers (because there is always more inequality in larger nations, even the Soviet Union), Norwegians would not be allowed the oil-enriched and spoilt existences you all now currently enjoy. Instead of being grateful for this, you come on here and tell everyone else how thick they are for not copying Norway (and i can't think the Norwegian education system is all that impressive if it managed to produce as big an idiot as yourself).
COSIGN.

Norwegians have the cushiest most spoiled existence in the world right now. Their oil based gravy train will not last forever, and it's a wonder that their entitled current generation doesn't realize this. They should show more humility. When the oil dries up, Norway goes back to being a tiny irrelevant fishing nation, and all of the government welfare will disappear.

[dunksby]

See that's the type of thing I don't agree with.

I don't think Breivik needs to be tortured. Or put in a 3x3m concrete box with nothing for the rest of his life, like they do in the US. That's nonsense. Let him have his books, his tv, his videogames that he pays for himself. Let him have his exercise.

He's a person who is irredeemably broken mentally and needs to be dealt with from that perspective, not from the perspective of vengeance. He should have lost his right to participate in society. Unless it's mommy or daddy or some kind of direct family, no letters, no contact. No going to college. No communication with the outside world. No contact with anyone but his family and people operating in the prison in a professional capacity. And no returning to society, ever.

People who do return to society one day, like your average rapist, your average murderer. They deserve appropriate punishment and retribution for what they've done. US is too much into the direction of punishment, Norway is too much into the direction for rehabilitation without any penance or guilt.
IIRC, after his first diagnosis as a Paranoid Schizo, he was enraged and told the court that he was a warrior and the worst punishment would be putting him in an asylum and pumping him full of K.

"I must admit this is the worst thing that could have happened to me as it is the ultimate humiliation. To send a political activist to a mental hospital is more sadistic and evil than to kill him! It is a fate worse than death."[
This is what I deem as a good punishment for him.

[dunksby]

It's helpful but not mandatory. English is the official language of the United States, so by law government employees only NEED to know English.

Also, not every kid is going to grow up to be a government employee, so why spend money educating every Floridian and Californian kid to speak Spanish? Lettuce be real. It's not like Mexico and South America and Spain have bustling economies that our citizens could benefit from.

If Norwegians on the other hand want to get out of Norway, or even if they're in Norway and doing business with someone outside of Norway, they NEED to know another language. That is why they put so much emphasis in to teaching their kids English.
Learning a second language doesn't have to be out of necessity but as a complementary piece to kid education, I'd love it if my kid learned a new language at school. School is for improving children, it would only help their developing brains.

[NumberSix]

COSIGN.

Norwegians have the cushiest most spoiled existence in the world right now. Their oil based gravy train will not last forever, and it's a wonder that their entitled current generation doesn't realize this. They should show more humility. When the oil dries up, Norway goes back to being a tiny irrelevant fishing nation, and all of the government welfare will disappear.
Give Norway this much credit. They had the good sense to not be members of the EU.

[LJJ]

If we started teaching our kids second languages when they're 5, there would be just as many bilingual people in USA as there are in Europe.

Being bi-lingual is not a sign of intelligence. This has more to do with politics than anything else. If Americans needed to know a second language to succeed in the work place, like many Europeans who need to know English, we would teach our kids that second language.

First of all, most kids in Europe don't start learning a second language at age 5. Countries with multiple languages like Belgium maybe, where kids learn French and Dutch in elementary. I started getting English and French lessons at age 12 and German at age 14. We are the best non-native English speakers in Europe. Learning a second language is mostly done post-elementary. A lot in college even.

Second, being multi-lingual has many proven benefits linked with intelligence and mental health. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationopinion/10126883/Why-learn-a-foreign-language-Benefits-of-bilingualism.html There have been many scientific studies regarding this, what you say is just factually untrue.

We teach our children many things. Geography, math, history, a second/third language. Many things most people don't need to know for their daily lives beyond a basic level. Learning these things do train and develop the brain, in addition to acquire basic knowledge. The US would do well to teach their children more than just English.

[Nick Young]

Learning a second language doesn't have to be out of necessity but as a complementary piece to kid education, I'd love it if my kid learned a new language at school. School is for improving children, it would only help their developing brains.
You can send your kid to private classes or a private school that does teach your kid that language if you want. Or you can teach that kid the language yourself. Nothing is stopping kids from learning second languages here. It's just not state funded, except at the high school, and sometimes community level.

[dunksby]

You can send your kid to private classes or a private school that does teach your kid that language if you want. Or you can teach that kid the language yourself. Nothing is stopping kids from learning second languages here. It's just not state funded, except at the high school, and sometimes community level.
I know I could do those, I didn't learn other languages in school, don't be naive :lol

[kurple]

Forreal. It doesn't cost $7 for a can of beer from 7-11 in the US like it does in Norway.
7-11 dont sell beer in noway, so dunno where you got 7$ from

but yeah, shit is expensive here. tho is makes it perfect to go on vacations

[Nick Young]

We teach our children many things. Geography, math, history, a second/third language. Many things most people don't need to know for their daily lives beyond a basic level. Learning these things do train and develop the brain, in addition to acquire basic knowledge. The US would do well to teach their children more than just English.
The US does teach kids a second language. I'm pretty sure when I got in to highschool in the Los Angeles Unified School District (14) it was mandatory to take on a language class.

ALSO again this is political. If Dutch kids only needed to know Dutch to succeed to the fullest, there would not be so much stress on teaching them more than one language.

Instead Holland is a tiny country surrounded by other tiny countries that don't speak Dutch. It is much more important to know another language in Holland than it is in the United States.

Yes it would be great if every kid was taught Latin and made to memorize the Aenied and then taught French, Spanish and German, but the US has a massive population and can't afford to fund that aspect of education. If parents want their kids educated like that, there is nothing stopping them from signing up to extra classes.

[Nick Young]

7-11 dont sell beer in noway, so dunno where you got 7$ from

but yeah, shit is expensive here. tho is makes it perfect to go on vacations
When I was there 8 years ago, the cheap super markets and corner stores were selling single cans of beer for $7 at the cheapest. No doubt due to inflation that has likely gone up to atleast $9. For a single can of beer.:roll:

Doesn't matter if you make $30 an hour washing dishes if the cost of living is so high it costs you $15 to get a basic meal at a fastfood place:facepalm

[NumberSix]

When I was there 8 years ago, the cheap super markets and corner stores were selling single cans of beer for $7 at the cheapest. No doubt due to inflation that has likely gone up to atleast $9. For a single can of beer.:roll:

Doesn't matter if you make $30 an hour washing dishes if the cost of living is so high it costs you $15 to get a basic meal at a fastfood place:facepalm
This.

Money is only as valuable as what you can buy with it. Not the size of the number.

[kurple]

And then reading the rest of your posts: why are you comparing your tiny and irrelevant country to the United States? If you applied the Norwegian system in America, it would result in cataclysmic disaster (There's a big difference between 5 million - basically a city - and 350million - basically a continent). Yet, if it weren't for these larger and more unequal powers (because there is always more inequality in larger nations, even the Soviet Union), Norwegians would not be allowed the oil-enriched and spoilt existences you all now currently enjoy. Instead of being grateful for this, you come on here and tell everyone else how thick they are for not copying Norway (and i can't think the Norwegian education system is all that impressive if it managed to produce as big an idiot as yourself).
i aint the one starting to compare our legal system to americas. I posted in this thread to educate stupid americans on how the norwegian legal system works, and why we have the system we have. (mainly nick young)

of course our system wouldnt work in the states. but it works here. that is my only point

you're the ones that desperatelty want to convince everyone the american way is the only right way.

[kurple]

When I was there 8 years ago, the cheap super markets and corner stores were selling single cans of beer for $7 at the cheapest. No doubt due to inflation that has likely gone up to atleast $9. For a single can of beer.:roll:

Doesn't matter if you make $30 an hour washing dishes if the cost of living is so high it costs you $15 to get a basic meal at a fastfood place:facepalm
that high salary helps A LOT when youre sending money home to youre family in Somalia

no matter how much a beer costs

are we really gonna discuss the quality of life for an average person in norway compared to america?

i dont want to do this, but nick just never wants to stop

[LJJ]

ALSO again this is political. If Dutch kids only needed to know Dutch to succeed to the fullest, there would not be so much stress on teaching them more than one language.

That's really not true. I know a CPA who can't string a full English sentence together. Almost nobody needs a second language for their career here, just Dutch is fine.

[kurple]

This.

Money is only as valuable as what you can buy with it. Not the size of the number.
of course, but i bet you wouldnt mind it if it was like this in the states as well. Sure everything costs more here, but not shit you order online, and you have no idea how nice it is to travel

every place is like thailand for us.

[Dresta]

First of all, most kids in Europe don't start learning a second language at age 5. Countries with multiple languages like Belgium maybe, where kids learn French and Dutch in elementary. I started getting English and French lessons at age 12 and German at age 14. We are the best non-native English speakers in Europe. Learning a second language is mostly done post-elementary. A lot in college even.

Second, being multi-lingual has many proven benefits linked with intelligence and mental health. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationopinion/10126883/Why-learn-a-foreign-language-Benefits-of-bilingualism.html There have been many scientific studies regarding this, what you say is just factually untrue.

We teach our children many things. Geography, math, history, a second/third language. Many things most people don't need to know for their daily lives beyond a basic level. Learning these things do train and develop the brain, in addition to acquire basic knowledge. The US would do well to teach their children more than just English.
I don't think those studies show very much aside from saying people with more active brains (constantly remembering, ordering, structuring, etc.) are more likely to be intelligent than those that are stagnant, and deteriorate more slowly. But i still completely agree with your point, and the UK would do well to encourage better language teaching also. It's all about the prioritisation of education, which has become so utility based (the biggest problem with modern education): for non-English speakers, learning English is a great utility, and increases your value significantly, and so these education systems tend to have high standards when it comes to teaching English. The UK, on the other hand, sees that the international language is English, and so that they need not focus on languages. Ideally, a well-rounded education would include a reasonable knowledge of English, German, French and Latin. Even with a very limited knowledge of these languages, through the study of etymology, you can see how they almost fit into a kind of bricolage. To really master English one needs a decent understanding of these other languages (particularly Latin & French).

Honestly, in the UK, not even English is taught at all competently. I had to learn even the basic rules of English grammar out of school, and that says it all about how little the English (and Americans presumably) care about language.

[Nick Young]

That's really not true. I know a CPA who can't string a full English sentence together. Almost nobody needs a second language for their career here, just Dutch is fine.
Yes. If they want to interact only with other Dutch people, of course knowing only Dutch is fine. If they ever wish to expand business in to other nations, or get work in another country in the EU, it is beneficial for Dutch kids to know a second language.

[Rocketswin2013]

Eurofag governments. Please tell me no-one is actually surprised.

[9erempiree]

Luxury living at its finest.

[ace23]

This ***** Nick Young been everywhere.

[Eric Cartman]

This thread took a shitty shitty turn.

[tomtucker]

i'm confused. sounds like you agree with him

Norway needs immigrants... Breivik was just an uneducated racist

No they don

[tomtucker]

Mullah Krekar
.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1e/Mullah_Krekar.jpg/440px-Mullah_Krekar.jpg
.
[B]Mullah Krekar (Kurdish: مەلا کرێکار Mela Kr

[tomtucker]

Ansar al-Islam
جماعة أنصار الإسلام
Participant in the Iraq War, Iraqi insurgency, Syrian Civil War, and the Global War on Terrorism[/B]
.
Active September 2001–present
Ideology Salafist Jihadism
Leaders Mullah Krekar (Former)
Abu Abdullah al-Shafi'i (POW)
Abu Hashim al Ibrahim[1]
.
Area of operations : Iraq
Syria