Chris Paul has dethroned Lebron as the biggest choker of the modern era

[Springsteen]

:facepalm

[Kidbasketball20]

Ehh CP's more like Melo just a career loser. Not a choker

[J Shuttlesworth]

LeBron hasn't been in contention since 2011

[StephHamann]

Can't choke away games if you are getting blown out of the arena.

Chris PauL

[TheMarkMadsen]

LeBron hasn't been in contention since 2011

he was in serious contention in 2013 until Ray hit that shot..

[imnew09]

CP3 actually scoring in 4th quarter but Lebron...

http://i.imgur.com/pSngI.jpg

[Derka]

CP3 is the only guy in a Clipper uni actually trying out there all game. Blake vanished again in the 2nd half and JJ, Crawford and Barnes were completely useless.

[Smoke117]

A guy with two championships as the best player on his team...was the biggest choker of the "modern era". Retarded kobe stan logic at work!

:yaohappy:

[J Shuttlesworth]

he was in serious contention in 2013 until Ray hit that shot..
16 pt 4th quarter game 6
37 pt game 7 in the finals

Nah... not on the same level as a guy who can't make it to the conference finals

[Springsteen]

I'm not even talking about this game.

How are you up 20 points and allow your team, as a leader, to blow it? Maybe I'm talking too much from my ass on the seat, but goddamn. That's a choke if I've ever seen one.

[CelticBaller]

Career loser

[Springsteen]

A guy with two championships as the best player on his team...was the biggest choker of the "modern era". Retarded kobe stan logic at work!

:yaohappy:

I've been accused of being a lebron stan and a kobe stan :lol

[buddha]

lol wtf are you talking about? LeBron James weighs alot more than Chris Paul..

[Derka]

I'm not even talking about this game.

How are you up 20 points and allow your team, as a leader, to blow it? Maybe I'm talking too much from my ass on the seat, but goddamn. That's a choke if I've ever seen one.
The whole team is culpable for the choke. I dunno how you just shift it all onto Paul, though. He can't will Crawford into making open jump shots or make Griffin a consistent defender at his position, leader or not.

[TheMarkMadsen]

16 pt 4th quarter game 6
37 pt game 7 in the finals

Nah... not on the same level as a guy who can't make it to the conference finals

as I said until Ray hit that Shot.. in case you don't remember, game 7 came after that shot..

and after playing poorly in games 1,2,3,5, and Wade being the man in game 4.. the choke was in full force.. a good 4th quarter wouldn't have made up for playing badly in 4/5 games before that

[dannywpt]

He's a choker and a career loser, just like LeBron was.

He needs to team up with minimum 2 real superstars and have role players hit huge clutch shots to lose those labels.

[salwan]

CP3 is the only guy in a Clipper uni actually trying out there all game. Blake vanished again in the 2nd half and JJ, Crawford and Barnes were completely useless.

this.

not a cp3 fan by any stretch, but he's the only clipper out there ballin' no matter the score. with an iffy hamstring

[Springsteen]

as I said until Ray hit that Shot.. in case you don't remember, game 7 came after that shot..

and after playing poorly in games 1,2,3,5, and Wade being the man in game 4.. the choke was in full force.. a good 4th quarter wouldn't have made up for playing badly in 4/5 games before that

Was Lebron really a choker in the MIA-OKC finals though? He consistently put up good stats.

[buddha]

He's a choker and a career loser, just like LeBron was.

He needs to team up with minimum 2 real superstars and have role players hit huge clutch shots to lose those labels.

Kobe
Dwight
Paul

what could have been.

[oarabbus]

Can't choke away games if you are getting blown out of the arena.

Chris PauL


:roll:

[J Shuttlesworth]

as I said until Ray hit that Shot.. in case you don't remember, game 7 came after that shot..

and after playing poorly in games 1,2,3,5, and Wade being the man in game 4.. the choke was in full force.. a good 4th quarter wouldn't have made up for playing badly in 4/5 games before that
Ok? and before Ray allen hit the shot, LeBron hit a 3, and had 16 pts in that quarter.

[Magic 32]

He's a choker and a career loser, just like LeBron was.

He needs to team up with minimum 2 real superstars and have role players hit huge clutch shots to lose those labels.

Or just go to the east.

[Magic 32]

Ok? and before Ray allen hit the shot, LeBron hit a 3, and had 16 pts in that quarter.

Come on man.

Did you fall into a coma in the last 4 minutes of the 4th?

[TheMarkMadsen]

Ok? and before Ray allen hit the shot, LeBron hit a 3, and had 16 pts in that quarter.

Bosh got the rebound off a Lebron miss..

anyways

if Ray Allen misses that 3 and they lose that series, the 4/5 games prior where he played poorly would heavily outweigh a quarter of great play and it would have been seen as a disappointment/choke..

[TheMarkMadsen]

Was Lebron really a choker in the MIA-OKC finals though? He consistently put up good stats.

no

[J Shuttlesworth]

Bosh got the rebound off a Lebron miss..

anyways

if Ray Allen misses that 3 and they lose that series, the 4/5 games prior where he played poorly would heavily outweigh a quarter of great play and it would have been seen as a disappointment/choke..
Again, before the LeBron miss, LeBron hit a 3 on the possession before... and had the 16 pts to put Ray Allen in position to hit the 3.

and even if all that never happened, he'd still be a champion from 2012... and you're trying to compare this to a guy who has never seen the conference finals.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Again, before the LeBron miss, LeBron hit a 3 on the possession before... and had the 16 pts to put Ray Allen in position to hit the 3.

and even if all that never happened, he'd still be a champion from 2012... and you're trying to compare this to a guy who has never seen the conference finals.


COOL DUDE

and like i've already said 100 times.. 4/5 poorly played games before that is going to outweigh one great quarter of basketball if they go on to lose


i'm not saying he choked, but he was on the verge of choking... he made up for it in the last 6 quarters

how can you be this dense not to understand that?


and i'm not comparing him to anybody.. my original post in this thread was just pointing out that during the 2013 finals Bran was choking.. they were literally leaving him wide open for 5 straight games and it was working.. it would have been considered choking if they lose

these two players don't belong in the same sentence tbh

[Xiengqichess]

Paul is not a choker. Griffin is, two of his turn overs killed the momentum.
Griffin will never be a champ.
Doc River is stupid as always.
Hardon Sucks.He's good as the ref want him to be..

[edrick]

he was in serious contention in 2013 until Ray hit that shot..

Lebron scored 16 points in that 4th quarter, including a 3 before Ray. But yeah, it was all Ray. ****ing idiots. :facepalm

[J Shuttlesworth]

COOL DUDE

and like i've already said 100 times.. 4/5 poorly played games before that is going to outweigh one great quarter of basketball if they go on to lose


i'm not saying he choked, but he was on the verge of choking... he made up for it in the last 6 quarters

how can you be this dense not to understand that?


and i'm not comparing him to anybody.. my original post in this thread was just pointing out that during the 2013 finals Bran was choking.. they were literally leaving him wide open for 5 straight games and it was working.. it would have been considered choking if they lose

these two players don't belong in the same sentence tbh
Being on the verge of choking does not equal choking.

Which is why LeBron hasn't been in contention since 2011. It's pretty simple

[navy]

as I said until Ray hit that Shot.. in case you don't remember, game 7 came after that shot..

and after playing poorly in games 1,2,3,5, and Wade being the man in game 4.. the choke was in full force.. a good 4th quarter wouldn't have made up for playing badly in 4/5 games before that
How did Lebron play poorly in game 2?

[Thechosen1]

in sports history

[Prometheus]

How did Lebron play poorly in game 2?

Was just about to say this. He also had a triple double in game one with 18 rebounds and only 2 turnovers. Haters see scoring less than 20 as a bad game. LeBron only played poorly in game three - a game that was essentially over by halftime. Game five was just sub-par, not poor.

[TheMarkMadsen]

How did Lebron play poorly in game 2?

17 points on 17 shots while being left open for jumpers the entire game

[navy]

17 points on 17 shots while being left open for jumpers the entire game
in a blowout win where there was no doubt he was the best player on the floor. Nice try though

[ArbitraryWater]

Kobetards wanna come at Bron for shooting 1 of 3 on 3's in the final minute, aka Kobe's career average.. ****in fools.

Kblaze debunked this shit already in depth.. what, Bron scored and assisted on like every bucket in the 4th and OT but the Allen 3? Amazing, tbh.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Was just about to say this. He also had a triple double in game one with 18 rebounds and only 2 turnovers. Haters see scoring less than 20 as a bad game. LeBron only played poorly in game three - a game that was essentially over by halftime. Game five was just sub-par, not poor.

please try to wait a few more years before trying to revise history

best player on the team scores 18 points in a 4 points loss, wasn't aggressive, was being given open jumpers all game.. 16 FGA as the best player on the court and your team lost by single digits.. bad game, he needed to be more aggressive

game 5 being sub-par? LOL shot 36%, began the 4th down 12, misses 3 straight jumpers and the game got blown open to 17 point lead..

yall got some low standards

[TheMarkMadsen]

in a blowout win where there was no doubt he was the best player on the floor. Nice try though

Mario Chalmers was the best player in game 2 but okay

17 points on 17 shots and his team still won in a blow out..

[Magic 32]

Kobetards wanna come at Bron for shooting 1 of 3 on 3's in the final minute, aka Kobe's career average.. ****in fools.



http://oi42.tinypic.com/i3uv6h.jpg
http://oi39.tinypic.com/2zize39.jpg

[ArbitraryWater]

Was just about to say this. He also had a triple double in game one with 18 rebounds and only 2 turnovers. Haters see scoring less than 20 as a bad game. LeBron only played poorly in game three - a game that was essentially over by halftime. Game five was just sub-par, not poor.

no one after game 2 said he played poor... pretty much ended the game with that assist to 3 / block / dunk sequence, too.


http://oi42.tinypic.com/i3uv6h.jpg
http://oi39.tinypic.com/2zize39.jpg

and now make your cute circles around what happened the rest of the 4th

[TheMarkMadsen]

Kobetards wanna come at Bron for shooting 1 of 3 on 3's in the final minute, aka Kobe's career average.. ****in fools.

Kblaze debunked this shit already in depth.. what, Bron scored and assisted on like every bucket in the 4th and OT but the Allen 3? Amazing, tbh.

i literally said nothing about him going 1 for 3, just said he missed the shot that Bosh rebounded

and again, you sensitive little boys,, 4/5 games of sub par play would outweigh whatever happened in the last 12 minutes of the game,, i've already said he didn't choke,. yall are too damn sensitive to even attempt to talk with :biggums: :biggums:

[navy]

Mario Chalmers was the best player in game 2 but okay
Just like Lebron was the best player in game 4.

Except Lebron is the one who assist on chalmers baskets and set the 1-4 pick and roll screens to allow chalmers the lane to score on drives


nice try though

[ShawkFactory]

Mario Chalmers was the best player in game 2 but okay
How..

[TheMarkMadsen]

no one after game 2 said he played poor... pretty much ended the game with that assist to 3 / block / dunk sequence, too.



and now make your cute circles around what happened the rest of the 4th

are you talking about that block on Splitter?

it was a 20 point game in the 4th at that point.. how does that "end the game"

[Magic 32]

and now make your cute circles around what happened the rest of the 4th

I don't have a meme with the Spurs sleeping.

Old men needed rest I guess.

[ArbitraryWater]

i literally said nothing about him going 1 for 3, just said he missed the shot that Bosh rebounded

and again, you sensitive little boys,, 4/5 games of sub par play would outweigh whatever happened in the last 12 minutes of the game,, i've already said he didn't choke,. yall are too damn sensitive to even attempt to talk with :biggums: :biggums:

Look at Kobe choking with that airball against the Suns in 2006.......................


wait no, who the **** cares about that single shot when he made some before.. so insecure you bring up irrelevant shit.

[Lebron23]

LeBron is a 2x NBA Champion. Soon to be a 3x NBA Champion.

[Legends66NBA7]

No more GOAT PG talks.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

LeBron was the biggest choker, but fortunately he was lucky to gain leadership tutelage from Wade.

Chris Paul is no longer runner up. He is that guy now. Paul and the Clippers make me sick to my stomach.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Just like Lebron was the best player in game 4.

Except Lebron is the one who assist on chalmers baskets and set the 1-4 pick and roll screens to allow chalmers the lane to score on drives


nice try though

best player in game 4 was Wade

Lebron poured in his last 7 points in the final 1:26 of the game with the HEAT already up 14

9 points overall total in the last 4 minutes with the HEAT up 15..

[DFish24]

Agreed OP. However if Ray Allen misses that shot they would still be even.

[navy]

best player in game 4 was Wade

Lebron poured in his last 7 points in the final 1:26 of the game with the HEAT already up 14

9 points overall total in the last 4 minutes with the HEAT up 15..
Nope, i took a look at the boxscore and saw that Lebron was the best player in game 4. Same way you suggested Chalmers was the best player in game 2 or that Lebron played poorly.

Nice try.

[Magic 32]

Just like Lebron was the best player in game 4.


That is just shame......just shameful.

[TheMarkMadsen]

so insecure you bring up irrelevant shit.

...


Look at Kobe choking with that airball against the Suns in 2006.......................

let that irony sink in little boy

[Smoke117]

best player in game 4 was Wade

Lebron poured in his last 7 points in the final 1:26 of the game with the HEAT already up 14

9 points overall total in the last 4 minutes with the HEAT up 15..

It's pathetic how you can pin point the numbers of a guy you hate...stay rent free.

[dreamwarrior]

Paul one day might go 1/1 which beats 2/5. Sorry

[navy]

That is just shame......just shameful.
My sarcasm and point should have been obvious. Go away.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Nope, i took a look at the boxscore and saw that Lebron was the best player in game 4. Same way you suggested Chalmers was the best player in game 2 or that Lebron played poorly.

Nice try.

I didn't need to look at the box score, I watched the game

Lebron started the game off 2-10..

the game was tied until the end of the 3rd when Ray, Miller & Chalmers went off, including that huge buzzer beater at the end of the 3rd from Mario to put the HEAT up 9..

[hiphopfan777]

Ray allen is garbage. He had zero points game seven. Plus lebron won finals mvp not ray allen.

[Magic 32]

Plus lebron won finals mvp not ray allen.

http://mrwgifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/What-Do-I-Clap-About-Again.gif

[Meticode]

CP3 is the only guy in a Clipper uni actually trying out there all game. Blake vanished again in the 2nd half and JJ, Crawford and Barnes were completely useless.
Blake averaged 27PPG, 12.3RPG, 4.9APG on 56% shooting the whole series and he was the problem vs Paul missing time, getting limited minutes and not having that great of a series?

[navy]

I didn't need to look at the box score, I watched the game

Lebron started the game off 2-10..

the game was tied until the end of the 3rd when Ray, Miller & Chalmers went off, including that huge buzzer beater at the end of the 3rd from Mario to put the HEAT up 9..
Lebron literally had a direct hand in all those plays, which you couldnt see from box score watching. the heat were up 10 in the 4th and the buzzer beater to end the 3rd came in game 7

nice try with your bullshit

[ImKobe]

Lebron literally had a direct hand in all those plays, which you couldnt see from box score watching. the heat were up 10 and the buzzer beater to end the 3rd came in game 7

nice try with your bullshit

Lowkey, Bosh and Battier's defense on Duncan in the 4th quarter won them the series.

[ShawkFactory]

Lowkey, Bosh and Battier's defense on Duncan in the 4th quarter won them the series.
One of the many factors, sure..

[navy]

Lowkey, Bosh and Battier's defense on Duncan in the 4th quarter won them the series.

Agreed.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Lebron literally had a direct hand in all those plays, which you couldnt see from box score watching. the heat were up 10 in the 4th and the buzzer beater to end the 3rd came in game 7

nice try with your bullshit


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5vdQF2qzNI

:oldlol: :oldlol:

[navy]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5vdQF2qzNI

:oldlol: :oldlol:
From the video you posted 3rd quarter: chalmers technical, lebron screens for chalmers, lebron steal pass to chalmers, lebron screens for chalmers receives pass from him, lebron screens for chalmers again. As i mentioned earlier the 1-4 pick and roll. Also in that 3rd quarter run lebron assist a mike miller 3.
So which play did Lebron not have a direct hand on in the third?

Also you ignored the rest of my post because once again you were wrong about the score and buzzer beater thinking you got me in the first sentence. Nice try.

[strifed169]

crawford has channeled his kobe and cost them that series, black ****ing hole

[TheMarkMadsen]

From the video you posted 3rd quarter: chalmers technical, lebron screens for chalmers, lebron steal pass to chalmers, lebron screens for chalmers receives pass from him, lebron screens for chalmers again. As i mentioned earlier the 1-4 pick and roll. Also in that 3rd quarter run lebron assist a mike miller 3.
So which play did Lebron not have a direct hand on in the third?

Also you ignored the rest of my post because once again you were wrong about the score and buzzer beater thinking you got me in the first sentence. Nice try.

screens? :oldlol: Lebron da GOAT wow..

you really just counted a time where he passed to Chalmers before halfcourt..


keep letting me push your shit in little boy, this literally went from me saying Lebron was playing sub par for 4/5 games prior to game 6, and your guys retort is to bring up games where he scored 17 on 17 shots, set some screens and put up 9 points at the end of a blow out game as some type of proof that he wasn't..

gotta love when Kobe haters can watch Lebron shoot 36% in a loss and then claim it wasn't a poor game.. that hypocrisy

you are delusional :roll:

and I was talking about the shot Chalmers hit with 9 seconds left in the 3rd, complete with the AND, which wasn't a buzzer beater but put the HEAT up by 9 at the end of the 3rd

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

From the video you posted 3rd quarter: chalmers technical, lebron screens for chalmers, lebron steal pass to chalmers, lebron screens for chalmers receives pass from him, lebron screens for chalmers again. As i mentioned earlier the 1-4 pick and roll. Also in that 3rd quarter run lebron assist a mike miller 3.
So which play did Lebron not have a direct hand on in the third?

Also you ignored the rest of my post because once again you were wrong about the score and buzzer beater thinking you got me in the first sentence. Nice try.
Wait you're seriously counting screens? ROFL. C'mon dude, take the L

[navy]

I literally said Lebron and Chalmers played the 1-4 pick and roll and that Lebron had a direct hand in every basket scored in that 3rd run.

How on earth do screens not count? Do you two know shit about basketball? The reason that play works is because Kawhi struggles to switch on to smaller guys and the Spurs dont want to leave Lebron. It was easily the most effective play of the entire finals. Not just that game.

In what universe does screens not count?

Get out of here with your bullshit. You cant even get the score right and are out here making up buzzer beaters. And yet you are talking about pushing my shit in when you are literally factually wrong?

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Setting screens go without saying. Kwame Brown was literally the best screener on the Lakers when he played for them. Ask Kobe. :roll:

[Dro]

Can't stand people who post like they didn't even watch the games. Anybody blaming CP3 for this series is a HATER. That's all. Did you see how much help he had from his teammates today? Did you see how he was guarding Harden and BEING guarded by Ariza? Of course you didn't.

[DMAVS41]

LeBron was the biggest choker, but fortunately he was lucky to gain leadership tutelage from Wade.

Chris Paul is no longer runner up. He is that guy now. Paul and the Clippers make me sick to my stomach.

But remember. It means nothing.

How players play doesn't matter.

A few select few know exactly how good players are and they knew CP3 would allow his team to lose that game 6 by going ghost in the 4th...just like they knew last year he'd epically choke the swing game 5 of the Thunder series.

All while not having a deep run in the playoffs to make these series/moments seem abnormal.

Again...how players play simply does not matter...at least in the playoffs.

It does, apparently matter, how players play in meaningless regular season games.

:confusedshrug:

[k0kakw0rld]

:facepalm
Chris Paul: 0 ring, 0 MVP, 1 All star MVP (at least he own that)

LeBron James: 2 rings, 2 FMVPs, 4 MVPs, 2 All Star MVPs

Name me another player who has that in his resume.

YOU ARE AN IDIOT...BAN THEM FOOLS PLEASE. NO BASKETBALL KNOWLEDGE WHATSOEVER YOU JUST A WASTE OF SPACE.

LeBron has a better career than anybody in his Draft.

Melo
Wade
Bosh

The **** you mean career choker. He might even win with two different franchise, what have you accomplished in life other than watching his every moves?

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

But remember. It means nothing.

How players play doesn't matter.

A few select few know exactly how good players are and they knew CP3 would allow his team to lose that game 6 by going ghost in the 4th...just like they knew last year he'd epically choke the swing game 5 of the Thunder series.

All while not having a deep run in the playoffs to make these series/moments seem abnormal.

Again...how players play simply does not matter...at least in the playoffs.

It does, apparently matter, how players play in meaningless regular season games.

:confusedshrug:
I was being hyperbolic with my post (don't think he's the biggest choker in mondern history; not even close), but nice little potshot at Kblaze. :oldlol:

How he played and closed this series out, especially in game 6, was a complete and utter letdown from a fans perspective. It definitely matters.

[DMAVS41]

Can't stand people who post like they didn't even watch the games. Anybody blaming CP3 for this series is a HATER. That's all. Did you see how much help he had from his teammates today? Did you see how he was guarding Harden and BEING guarded by Ariza? Of course you didn't.

Blaming him solely? Yep...stupid and hater material.

Blaming him quite a bit for going ghost while his team collapsed in the 4th qtr of a closeout game? Not hating at all.

What CP3 fans don't seem to get is that other all time greats actually proved shit by leading teams deep into the playoffs while also consistently playing great...beyond great at times to get shit done....like Paul in game 7 against the Spurs.

Part of being a great basketball is being able to consistently perform at elite levels in the playoffs. Seems like so many people here and just in the basketball community ignore this.

I like Paul...have him as one of the best points ever...but this shit matters. Coming up like he did in that game 5 last year...and the game 6 this year. That matters.

Does is make him a scrub? Hell no...he's all time great good. But it matters he hasn't gotten his team beyond the 2nd round in his career to date. While having enough help to do so...and having a few pretty epic chokes.

[DMAVS41]

I was being hyperbolic with my post (don't think he's the biggest choker in mondern history; not even close), but nice little potshot at Kblaze. :oldlol:

How he played and closed this series out, especially in game 6, was a complete and utter letdown from a fans perspective. It definitely matters.

I get you kuniva....just had to come on and remind people that how players play in the biggest moments and games of their careers doesn't matter.

:applause:

[navy]

Setting screens go without saying. Kwame Brown was literally the best screener on the Lakers when he played for them. Ask Kobe. :roll:
So which part of my post are you refuting? If Kwama Brown had a direct impact on getting Kobe's man off him how does he not have a direct impact on the play?

[NumberSix]

Considering that LAC was able to win a game against the rockets without Paul even playing, it just seems really weird that they could somehow lose a dominant 3-1 series lead.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

So which part of my post are you refuting? If Kwama Brown had a direct impact on getting Kobe's man off him how does he not have a direct impact on the play?

That you're counting shit literally everyone does on the court. Even scrubs. Is it impact? Yeah I guess; it's not something to boast about though, and certainly not something to get your point across.

I get you kuniva....just had to come on and remind people that how players play in the biggest moments and games of their careers doesn't matter.

:applause:
:oldlol:

[DMAVS41]

Considering that LAC was able to win a game against the rockets without Paul even playing, it just seems really weird that they could somehow lose a dominant 3-1 series lead.

Yep.

It's almost like perhaps Paul doesn't make the huge impact you'd think given his numbers.

If only we had a way to detect true impact in the playoffs when the games matter the most...like how a player plays and how his team performs.

Like...it would be great if there was a record of the outcome of the games/series. Like a win or a loss...maybe they'll come up with that some day.

[Young X]

I still don't know how CP "choked". He didn't have a great 4th quarter in game 6 to stop the bleeding but he was the only one who did anything in the quarter.

Was he supposed to stop the Rockets from scoring 40 points in the 4th?

Was he supposed to stop Smith from hitting 3 after 3?

Was he supposed to prevent Griffin from going scoreless after he set him up for easy buckets?

[navy]

That you're counting shit literally everyone does on the court. Even scrubs. Is it impact? Yeah I guess; it's not something to boast about though, and certainly not something to get your point across.

:oldlol:
I wasnt boasting, I made a claim and backed it up. It wasnt refuted because it was true. Lebron literally had a hand in practically every score in that run. Whether he scored, assisted, gave an opportunity to score. You think San Antonio would have been so confused by Mario Chalmers if they didnt have to worry about Lebron? No.

But Kwame Brown sets screens as well.....Yeah, and if he is as good as you claim you have to give him a hand in helping Kobe have his highest scoring seasons for getting Kobe's defender off him.

[Mr. Jabbar]

Yep.

It's almost like perhaps Paul doesn't make the huge impact you'd think given his numbers.

If only we had a way to detect true impact in the playoffs when the games matter the most...like how a player plays and how his team performs.

Like...it would be great if there was a record of the outcome of the games/series. Like a win or a loss...maybe they'll come up with that some day.

eye test

[DMAVS41]

eye test

Hahah.

My post was a joke.

Sometimes looking at the wins and losses is too simple...sometimes it's a great indicator of impact.

I think losing this series for the Clippers was a great indicator of the impact Paul had on it...

[Optimus Prime]

As much fun as it is to trash CP3 for his epic choke jobs (and he has many), but he didn't choke in this series. He was one of the few Clippers who actually showed up.

And nobody can dethrone LeBeta as the biggest choker of all. 2/5, 2011 Finals, 2014 Finals, Celtics series, etc.

:kobe:

[PsychoBe]

I still don't know how CP "choked". He didn't have a great 4th quarter in game 6 to stop the bleeding but he was the only one who did anything in the quarter.

Was he supposed to stop the Rockets from scoring 40 points in the 4th?

Was he supposed to stop Smith from hitting 3 after 3?

Was he supposed to prevent Griffin from going scoreless after he set him up for easy buckets?

the best "game manager" isn't capable of managing a 19 point lead? :oldlol:

[DMAVS41]

I still don't know how CP "choked". He didn't have a great 4th quarter in game 6 to stop the bleeding but he was the only one who did anything in the quarter.

Was he supposed to stop the Rockets from scoring 40 points in the 4th?

Was he supposed to stop Smith from hitting 3 after 3?

Was he supposed to prevent Griffin from going scoreless after he set him up for easy buckets?

Yes, he was supposed to do something to prevent his team from crumbling.

Doesn't make him a scrub. Doesn't mean he isn't all time great.

It just means he didn't do it. And it matters that his team lost this series.

Sometimes a player plays great and it isn't enough. This isn't one of those moments or series. Same thing with the game 5 crumble last year. It was the case of a guy wetting the bed in the biggest moments/games of the year.

Again, we all shouldn't just drastically change our opinions on Paul. But I think this should be held against him a little. It matters that this happened.


True with any player. Take my favorite player Dirk.

It matters that he and his team lost the 06 finals. It matter that they lost to the Warriors in 07...etc. Doesn't mean Dirk isn't one of the best ever, but if he had done enough to get his team through those series...he'd be a better player. I think that is so often missed here. If Dirk had been able to win in 06 and 07...he'd be a ****ing better basketball player than the player we've witnessed. How much better is up for debate, but he'd be better because what happens on the court is a reflection of how good one is at playing the game.

This is where ranking the career of a player can come in handy. It cuts through the bullshit. Now, I'm the first guy to bring up circumstances and how players play, but we also can't ignore results. It's not easy...it's complicated ranking players or judging players because nobody plays in the same circumstances. But results and how players play are good indicators of their true impact at times. Other times it's not.

This is a clear cut case, in my opinion, where the result of this series...especially game 6...indicates the impact of Paul in this series. Losing this series is epically bad...there is just no way around it. And in that most important 4th qtr of the year. Paul went ghost.

Now, it's not like he hasn't proved shit, but part of being great is consistently doing shit when it matters most. Like back to back great game 7's...sometimes one isn't enough.

It matters how players play....it's as simple as that.

Of course it's not all on Paul, but we also don't have to pretend he didn't go completely ghost when his team needed him the most in this series. That matters to me.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

I wasnt boasting, I made a claim and backed it up. It wasnt refuted because it was true. Lebron literally had a hand in practically every score in that run. Whether he scored, assisted, gave an opportunity to score. You think San Antonio would have been so confused by Mario Chalmers if they didnt have to worry about Lebron? No.

But Kwame Brown sets screens as well.....Yeah, and if he is as good as you claim you have to give him a hand in helping Kobe have his highest scoring seasons for getting Kobe's defender off him.
Yeah Kwame should still be in the NBA. GOAT impact with his...screens

[NumberSix]

Clippers were VERY clearly the superior team. Yet Chris Paul will get less criticism than LeBron did for getting smashed by a superior spurs team despite himself being by far the best player on the floor.

[WorldWarriors]

Chris played his heart out. You can only do so much when your Superstar disappears and craps the bed in the fourth quarter and you have to rely on Barnes, Reddick and Crawford to pull you through. Anything you get from those guys is a bonus. But you have to be able to depend on your Superstar. Sure his stats look good for the series but those 4th quarters from him can be brutal. Sure Chris Paul has never made it to a conference finals but this is not on him, imo.

[Graviton]

Paul passes to Jamal too much, that scrub shouldn't get more than 10 shots a game. 18 shots for him in a Game 7 is insane. I know Clips don't have a good bench, but Crawford is pure cancer.

[WorldWarriors]

Paul passes to Jamal too much, that scrub shouldn't get more than 10 shots a game. 18 shots for him in a Game 7 is insane. I know Clips don't have a good bench, but Crawford is pure cancer. Barnes, Reddick and Rivers. Pick your poison. :oldlol: They all sucked.

[Graviton]

Barnes, Reddick and Rivers. Pick your poison. :oldlol: They all sucked.
Well Rivers won them a game by himself, he gets a pass. Barnes was always a scrub and Reddick is inconsistent. Clips just ****ed up letting Rivers be the GM putting together all those one dimensional garbage cans.

[WorldWarriors]

Clippers were VERY clearly the superior team. Yet Chris Paul will get less criticism than LeBron did for getting smashed by a superior spurs team despite himself being by far the best player on the floor. When you really look at it, I don't think so. Paul is a superior player but Reddick, Crawford, Barnes and Rivers will take you nowhere. Matt Barnes should not be starting on anybody's NBA team.

[WorldWarriors]

Well Rivers won them a game by himself, he gets a pass. Barnes was always a scrub and Reddick is inconsistent. Clips just ****ed up letting Rivers be the GM putting together all those one dimensional garbage cans. Oh my god. Spencer Hawes and Jordan Farmar, lol.

Yeah Doc swang himself a hell of deal. Now that owner is stuck with him or will have to pay him out. But I can't see that happening, that's way too much money to throw away.

Yeah Rivers did step up but he is not reliable either.

[TheMarkMadsen]

There will never be a team that Paul apologist think is good enough for him..

the guy has the best front court in the league, great shooters all around him, the perennial 6 MOTY, championship coach a team that was able to go up 2-1 with him playing 22 minutes combined in those 3 games.. Reddick averaged 17ppg this series.. how much more can you ask out of him?

the excuses never end with this guy.. when do you just admit that he doesn't have the impact that yall believe he does?

[DMAVS41]

When you really look at it, I don't think so. Paul is a superior player but Reddick, Crawford, Barnes and Rivers will take you nowhere. Matt Barnes should not be starting on anybody's NBA team.

Oh my god.

Shut the **** up.

The Clippers were blowing out the Rockets at him in the close out game and Paul crapped the bad hugely...just like everyone else.

Nobody, in that moment, thought that the Rockets had the superior team.

It took the Clippers choking, epically, for that to even enter the equation.

And really? The Clippers won a road playoff game without Paul in this series.

God damn...just own it. He choked in that game 6 hugely. Just like he choked in game 5 last year.

Doesn't mean anything other than he did it. Still All time great...

[DMAVS41]

There will never be a team that Paul apologist think is good enough for him..

the guy has the best front court in the league, great shooters all around him, the perennial 6 MOTY, championship coach a team that was able to go up 2-1 with him playing 22 minutes combined in those 3 games.. Reddick averaged 17ppg this series.. how much more can you ask out of him??

the excuses never end with this guy.. when do you just admit that he doesn't have the impact that yall believe he does?

Griffin playing like a close prime Lebron. DJ dominating....teammates winning a road playoff game without him.

Team up 20 plus in the 2nd half at home in a close out game.

And he doesn't have enough help.

:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

[navy]

Paul passes to Jamal too much, that scrub shouldn't get more than 10 shots a game. 18 shots for him in a Game 7 is insane. I know Clips don't have a good bench, but Crawford is pure cancer.
To be honest, Game 7 does something fierce to role players. This is why home court advantage works. No surprise the rockets scrubs looked good and the clippers scrubs didnt.

It's the stars that got to close the deal. I think Paul was just alright which wont get it done in a game 7 road game. Griffin on the otherhand was straight shook. This guy is literally unguardable by the Rockets and get he was getting stuffed at the rim, and turning the ball over.

Same shit happened in Game 6. Chris Paul is Chris Paul, he's too small and not good enough to get it done. No real disrespect, very few point guards can. Griffin on the other hand? 0 points in Game 6 on 0-5 shooting. Garbage in game 7. Especially defensively.

Griffin was suppose to be the best player if the Clippers wanted to win. But as we all see it's still Cp3 who isnt good enough to get it done.

[Young X]

How were the Clippers clearly the superior team when they only had 3 serviceable players?

And DMAVS, this series isn't a case of Paul "wetting the bed". Obviously when a star's team loses, you can point to instances where he could have done better but he did more than enough to put his team in good position. If Barnes, Crawford, and Redick shoot 38% instead of 28% in the last 3 games, we're not having this discussion right now.

[PsychoBe]

How were the Clippers clearly the superior team when they only had 3 serviceable players?

And DMAVS, this series isn't a case of Paul "wetting the bed". Obviously when a star's team loses, you can point to instances where he could have done better but he did more than enough to put his team in good position. If Barnes, Crawford, and Redick shoot 38% instead of 28% in the last 3 games, we're not having this discussion right now.

cp3's team literally blew the rockets out on the road without him.

without him.

cp3 - dnp

result: clippers win

that "all-time pg impact" :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

How were the Clippers clearly the superior team when they only had 3 serviceable players?

And DMAVS, this series isn't a case of Paul "wetting the bed". Obviously when a star's team loses, you can point to instances where he could have done better but he did more than enough to put his team in good position. If Barnes, Crawford, and Redick shoot 38% instead of 28% in the last 3 games, we're not having this discussion right now.
You're in complete denial dude.

The Clippers weren't clearly the better team before the G6 choke? Are you serious right now?

[Dro]

cp3's team literally blew the rockets out on the road without him.

without him.

cp3 - dnp

result: clippers win

that "all-time pg impact" :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
And the Rockets came back from down 20 with Harden on the bench. I don't really see your point:confusedshrug:

[PsychoBe]

And the Rockets came back from down 20 with Harden on the bench. I don't really see your point:confusedshrug:

and guess what "all-time great pg" froze up against bench players in the 4th quarter :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

haren is still a joke of a player we all know that. cp3 is lauded as something he's not all the time on these forums and it's finally time to end it.

[tpols]

Griffin playing like a close prime Lebron. DJ dominating....teammates winning a road playoff game without him.

Team up 20 plus in the 2nd half at home in a close out game.

And he doesn't have enough help.

:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

The problem is neither blake or cp3 are true closers.. they both play great throughout the course of a game going up and down the court, but when it slows down and teams are running clock and isolating neither blake or paul look comfortable.. it's like a big hot potato.

Houston at least has that dynamic covered with harden being closer and dwight more throughout the game.. plus brewer and a Riza are clutch role players.. Reddick choked hugely, Barnes always seems good at the start of a season but then in the playoffs his shot always disappears at the worst times and teams don't respect his offense. Rivers and Crawford both suck in general.this one was tough

[Optimus Prime]

Having trouble finding stats for the entire series, but I doubt Chris Paul was this bad:

http://i.imgur.com/pSngI.jpg

Beta Bran still king. 2/5 :bowdown:

[WorldWarriors]

The problem is neither blake or cp3 are true closers.. they both play great throughout the course of a game going up and down the court, but when it slows down and teams are running clock and isolating neither blake or paul look comfortable.. it's like a big hot potato.

Houston at least has that dynamic covered with harden being closer and dwight more throughout the game.. plus brewer and a Riza are clutch role players.. Reddick choked hugely, Barnes always seems good at the start of a season but then in the playoffs his shot always disappears at the worst times and teams don't respect his offense. Rivers and Crawford both suck in general.this one was tough I can agree with this.

[WorldWarriors]

Oh my god.

Shut the **** up.

The Clippers were blowing out the Rockets at him in the close out game and Paul crapped the bad hugely...just like everyone else.

Nobody, in that moment, thought that the Rockets had the superior team.

It took the Clippers choking, epically, for that to even enter the equation.

And really? The Clippers won a road playoff game without Paul in this series.

God damn...just own it. He choked in that game 6 hugely. Just like he choked in game 5 last year.

Doesn't mean anything other than he did it. Still All time great... You shut the F up!

Just because you're cussing doesn't mean a thing to me. I still disagree with you. "He choked in game 6 hugely" what does that mean? How did he choke? Explain yourself if you can do it without losing it.

[Young X]

You're in complete denial dude.

The Clippers weren't clearly the better team before the G6 choke? Are you serious right now?Did you not see how bad they were outside of CP/Blake/DJ? Clippers outplayed them before G6 but overall they weren't the clearly superior team at all.

[navy]

Did you not see how bad they were outside of CP/Blake/DJ? Clippers clearly outplayed them before G6 but overall they weren't the clearly superior team at all.
The teams were about even to be honest. Both have inconsistent unreliable role players who will either get hot or play like garbage. Both teams have high powered offenses and inconsistent defenses.

That said, the Clippers losing Game 6 was on nothing but them. CP3 and Blake I mean. They should have won that game.

[WorldWarriors]

The teams were about even to be honest. Both have inconsistent unreliable role players who will either get hot or play like garbage. Both teams have high powered offenses and inconsistent defenses.

That said, the Clippers losing Game 6 was on nothing but them. CP3 and Blake I mean. They should have won that game.Agree with this too.

[truhooper]

Steve Nash

[DMAVS41]

How were the Clippers clearly the superior team when they only had 3 serviceable players?

And DMAVS, this series isn't a case of Paul "wetting the bed". Obviously when a star's team loses, you can point to instances where he could have done better but he did more than enough to put his team in good position. If Barnes, Crawford, and Redick shoot 38% instead of 28% in the last 3 games, we're not having this discussion right now.

Did I say overall? Nope.

I said Paul wet the bed in the 4th qtr of game 6. Do you dispute that?

Also, the Clippers aren't as weak as you say. Just not the case at all.

They won game 1 without Paul...then absolutely made the Rockets look terrible in back to back games. Then they were up 20 plus at home in close out game with Paul going ghost.

To say they didn't have enough to beat the Rockets is absurd.

Is it all Paul's fault? Hell no. Never said it was.

[DMAVS41]

You shut the F up!

Just because you're cussing doesn't mean a thing to me. I still disagree with you. "He choked in game 6 hugely" what does that mean? How did he choke? Explain yourself if you can do it without losing it.

He did nothing to stop his team collapsing in the 4th qtr in that game. How is that not choking, coming up small in huge moment, wetting the bed...whatever you want to call it?

If you actually think this Clippers team didn't have enough around Paul to beat the Rockets...then we just aren't watching the same games.

[WorldWarriors]

He did nothing to stop his team collapsing in the 4th qtr in that game. How is that not choking, coming up small in huge moment, wetting the bed...whatever you want to call it?

If you actually think this Clippers team didn't have enough around Paul to beat the Rockets...then we just aren't watching the same games. What was he supposed to do? Make Crawford, Barnes and Reddick hit their shots? I did watch the game. I've watched all of the games. Those guys combined for a lot of missed shots. I don't know the stats off hand but they were not producing in game 6. Not sure what Paul could have done to save it on his own. What should he have done?

Here's the thing, I see the flaws in Paul's game. But I don't honestly see it as choking especially in the game today. I don't see him as the superstar as I see Blake being for the team. Chris played his heart out today and I can't call him a choker. Blake disappeared in the 4th quarter. He made so many mental mistakes that cost the Clippers big time. Maybe he was out of gas, I don't know. But to get the accolades he gets in this league, he has to do better.

[DMAVS41]

What was he supposed to do? Make Crawford, Barnes and Reddick hit their shots? I did watch the game. I've watched all of the games. Those guys combined for a lot of missed shots. I don't know the stats off hand but they were not producing in game 6. Not sure what Paul could have done to save it on his own. What should he have done?

Here's the thing, I see the flaws in Paul's game. But I don't honestly see it as choking especially in the game today. I don't see him as the superstar as I see Blake being for the team. Chris played his heart out today and I can't call him a choker. Blake disappeared in the 4th quarter. He made so many mental mistakes that cost the Clippers big time. Maybe he was out of gas, I don't know. But to get the accolades he gets in this league, he has to do better.

I din't really care about the semantics.

I said call it whatever you want.

It matters that Paul went ghost in that 4th qtr of game 6.

I'll say it again. This isn't just his fault. Doesn't mean he's not an all time great player.

Just means that he didn't do enough to win that game or this series.

And I think it's totally a bitch move to claim he didn't get enough help to win this series. Check this out:

Point differentials through 4 games of teams coming back from down 3-1 in series in NBA history:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CFPZsyDWEAA8ahg.jpg:large

[WorldWarriors]

I din't really care about the semantics.

I said call it whatever you want.

It matters that Paul went ghost in that 4th qtr of game 6.

I'll say it again. This isn't just his fault. Doesn't mean he's not an all time great player.

Just means that he didn't do enough to win that game or this series.

And I think it's totally a bitch move to claim he didn't get enough help to win this series. Check this out:

Point differentials through 4 games of teams coming back from down 3-1 in series in NBA history:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CFPZsyDWEAA8ahg.jpg:large

Okay whatever. Not even sure what you mean about "bitch move". I'm just calling it as I see it as you are. But that's cool. Anyway, those are great stats and all. But guys still have to hit shots when it's crucial. I don't know why this is even an argument.

You can believe whatever you want about Paul. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

[Springsteen]

Steve Nash

Made the WCF :confusedshrug:

[TheMarkMadsen]

Made the WCF :confusedshrug:

multiple times

[PsychoBe]

multiple times

2x mvp :applause:

[NumberSix]

As much fun as it is to trash CP3 for his epic choke jobs (and he has many), but he didn't choke in this series. He was one of the few Clippers who actually showed up.

And nobody can dethrone LeBeta as the biggest choker of all. 2/5, 2011 Finals, 2014 Finals, Celtics series, etc.

:kobe:
:wtf: