if Lebron can win 2 titles without wade. he'l match Kobe for most all time..........

[kennethgriffin]

.... in the "what so and so did without that specific other HOF'r" list




kobe ( 2 rings minus Shaq )
Russell ( 1 ring without Sam Jones )
Shaq ( 1 ring minus Kobe )
kareem ( 1 ring minus magic )
duncan ( 1 ring minus parker )
hakeem ( 1 ring minus drexler )
wilt ( 1 ring minus west )
bird ( 0 rings minus mchale )
magic ( 0 rings minus kareem )
jordan ( 0 rings minus pippen )
lebron ( 0 rings minus wade )
oscar ( 0 rings minus kareem )




Note* for idiots* this is not* a list* about titles* without any other* hall of famer*


Simply titles* without* a specific* other* hall of famer*

Morons*

[24-Inch_Chrome]

Every player you listed > Kobe.

[Cocaine80s]

He'll also have twice as many FMVPs

http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/kevin-garnett-reaction.gif

[Marchesk]

Horry (4 rings minus Kobe & Shaq)

[kennethgriffin]

Every player you listed > Kobe.

not according to this

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/30/Globespin.gif

[Solefade]

Every player you listed > Kobe.


backfire :oldlol:

[kennethgriffin]

Horry (4 rings minus Kobe & Shaq)


horry isnt a HOF'r

:lol

thats sort of a pre requisite for making the list. sorry

and its mainly a discussion about top 10 players all time or on the fringe guys

[24-Inch_Chrome]

Robert Horry > Kobe too. So with Horry in as the GOAT that drops Kobe to 13th.

[kennethgriffin]

Robert Horry > Kobe too. So with Horry in as the GOAT that drops Kobe to 13th.


its amazing how bad the trolls are these days

atleast try and make a valid point

[ApexPredator]

horry isnt a HOF'r

:lol

thats sort of a pre requisite for making the list. sorry

and its mainly a discussion about top 10 players all time or on the fringe guys

Changing the rules to fit your agenda. Beta move, beta move. :no:

[lilteapot]

OP, stop pretending to be a Kobe fan.

[24-Inch_Chrome]

its amazing how bad the trolls are these days

atleast try and make a valid point

Every thread you make is so full of agenda, one-sided or selective criteria, and shit posting, you're in no position to call anyone a troll.

Kobe is currently 12th on my all-time list. He was 11th but I had forgotten about Oscar, thanks for the reminder.

[Cold soul]

Every thread you make is so full of agenda, one-sided or selective criteria, and shit posting, you're in no position to call anyone a troll.

Kobe is currently 12th on my all-time list. He was 11th but I had forgotten about Oscar, thanks for the reminder.

Lol you have Kobe ranked 12th lol yet another troll that's Kobe hater go figure.

[warriorfan]

op is autistic

[Eric Cartman]

op is autistic
takes one to know one

[pauk]

That Kobe had to prove he could win without Shaq was about him proving he could win as THE MAN.... A problem Lebron never had....

[24-Inch_Chrome]

Lol you have Kobe ranked 12th lol yet another troll that's Kobe hater go figure.

:whatever:

He's not a consensus top-10 player, no need to get defensive just because someone has a different set of ranking criteria/evaluation for a player in question. He's an ATG player but just doesn't make it into my top-10.

[oarabbus]

takes one to know one

Not with autism, you simply have to observe.

[Prometheus]

If this happens, would you still rank Kobe over him?

[#number6ix#]

Pau is a hof'er

[Mr Exlax]

Pau is a hof'er

Came to say this

[rzp]

1 more ring is enough.

3 alpha rings > 5 beta rings

[nzahir]

Horry (4 rings minus Kobe & Shaq)
http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/kevin-garnett-reaction.gif

[Cold soul]

:whatever:

He's not a consensus top-10 player, no need to get defensive just because someone has a different set of ranking criteria/evaluation for a player in question. He's an ATG player but just doesn't make it into my top-10.

Actually he is by majority of people on resume and accomplishments alone.

[raprap]

Pau Gasol is a future Hall of famer tho. :hammerhead:

[24-Inch_Chrome]

Actually he is by majority of people on resume and accomplishments alone.

He's not a consensus top-10 player. You're welcome to place Kobe in your top-10 but that's still just your opinion. If it's any consolation I fit him into the general low (9-10) top-10 tier, just not on my top-10.

[Kvnzhangyay]

Lol you have Kobe ranked 12th lol yet another troll that's Kobe hater go figure.

Thats a very fair rating

[kennethgriffin]

The people listing pau dont really understand the point of this thread

Its the list of guys that have proven to be able to win titles without another specific hall of famer

Hense the kareem 1 (with oscar) ... shaq 1 (with wade) ... etc...


Kobe won multiple without shaq and multiple without pau



Why would i count lebron winning with kyrie if it was a thread about titles without another current or future hall of famer


God damn how am i a part of such a low IQ forum


(Facepalm)

[PsychoBe]

He's not a consensus top-10 player. You're welcome to place Kobe in your top-10 but that's still just your opinion. If it's any consolation I fit him into the general low (9-10) top-10 tier, just not on my top-10.

stop trolling. the player voted by fans to be the player of the decade isn't top-10 all time? 81 points in a game? most all-star appearances? most first team all defense selections? one of like 4 players to average 30/5/5 in the finals (bran is not on that list btw), contemparies such as shaq, magic, and kareem lauding him as the greatest laker ever, etc, etc.

put down the paint chips son.

[24-Inch_Chrome]

stop trolling. the player voted by fans to be the player of the decade isn't top-10 all time? 81 points in a game? most all-star appearances? most first team all defense selections? one of like 4 players to average 30/5/5 in the finals (bran is not on that list btw), contemparies such as shaq, magic, and kareem lauding him as the greatest laker ever, etc, etc.

put down the paint chips son.

Check your avy, check your username, you'll understand why I can't take you seriously. Player stans are ****ing cancer, Kobe and LeBron stans in particular.

[Ne 1]

Every thread you make is so full of agenda, one-sided or selective criteria, and shit posting, you're in no position to call anyone a troll.

Kobe is currently 12th on my all-time list. He was 11th but I had forgotten about Oscar, thanks for the reminder.
Most reasonable fans already had Kobe as borderline top 10/top 13 before winning his 4th ring, but after 2009 it wasn't even an argument, he cemented himself in the top 10.

Jordan, Kareem, Bird, Magic, Shaq, Russell, Hakeem, Duncan and Wilt are the only players that can be ranked in front of him. No one else has a case. IMO at best he's top 5 with only Jordan, Kareem, Russell and Wilt being undisputedly better. Usually if anyone didn't have Kobe at #10 before '09, guys like West, Moses and Oscar were the ones that would be ranked in the #10 spot over Kobe, but honestly, what had they really done to place themselves over Bryant? After '09 there really weren't more than 9 players that could reasonably be ranked in front of him.

Take into consideration the following things:
- Peak play
- Overall career stats
- Awards/Records/Accomplishments
- Championships
etc. etc.

[SouBeachTalents]

Most reasonable fans already had Kobe as borderline top 10/top 13 before winning his 4th ring, but after 2009 it wasn't even an argument, he cemented himself in the top 10.

Jordan, Kareem, Bird, Magic, Shaq, Russell, Hakeem, Duncan and Wilt are the only players that can be ranked in front of him. No one else has a case. IMO at best he's top 5 with only Jordan, Kareem, Russell and Wilt being undisputedly better. Usually if anyone didn't have Kobe at #10 before '09, guys like West, Moses and Oscar were the ones that would be ranked in the #10 spot over Kobe, but honestly, what had they really done to place themselves over Bryant? After '09 there really weren't more than 9 players that could reasonably be ranked in front of him.

Take into consideration the following things:
- Peak play
- Overall career stats
- Awards/Records/Accomplishments
- Championships
etc. etc.

To say LeBron doesn't have "a case" is ridiculous. There are arguments to be made for having either player over the other

[jstern]

Wow, it's true. Almost every single player that he listed is better than Kobe. Because that list is strong. Duncan, Jordan, Wilt, Kareem, and so on and so on. Bird.

And Gasol is going to be a HOFer.

[plowking]

Steph Curry already caught Kobe in MVP's, and after this season he'll only be one behind Kobe on your arbitrary, bullshit list.

[Prime_Shaq]

Lol you have Kobe ranked 12th lol yet another troll that's Kobe hater go figure.
That avy :lol

[kennethgriffin]

Wow, it's true. Almost every single player that he listed is better than Kobe. Because that list is strong. Duncan, Jordan, Wilt, Kareem, and so on and so on. Bird.

And Gasol is going to be a HOFer.


I can understand being a troll and saying every single player that ever played is better than kobe


But to still not know what this thread is about is inexcusable

:biggums:

[kennethgriffin]

Steph Curry already caught Kobe in MVP's, and after this season he'll only be one behind Kobe on your arbitrary, bullshit list.

Bullshit list? Its simply a list of factual events

How is truth bullshit?

[24-Inch_Chrome]

Most reasonable fans already had Kobe as borderline top 10/top 13 before winning his 4th ring, but after 2009 it wasn't even an argument, he cemented himself in the top 10.

Jordan, Kareem, Bird, Magic, Shaq, Russell, Hakeem, Duncan and Wilt are the only players that can be ranked in front of him. No one else has a case. IMO at best he's top 5 with only Jordan, Kareem, Russell and Wilt being undisputedly better. Usually if anyone didn't have Kobe at #10 before '09, guys like West, Moses and Oscar were the ones that would be ranked in the #10 spot over Kobe, but honestly, what had they really done to place themselves over Bryant? After '09 there really weren't more than 9 players that could reasonably be ranked in front of him.

Take into consideration the following things:
- Peak play
- Overall career stats
- Awards/Records/Accomplishments
- Championships
etc. etc.

I'm fairly certain I saw your username posted in a thread listing ISH's Kobe stans. Really hurts the credibility, makes it tough.

Despite my dislike for engaging with player stans I'll bite and at least list my tiers of players. If you're interested I can offer some additional insight but for now this is how they're grouped in my eyes.

Tier 1: Jordan, Kareem, Russell, Wilt (in that order).

Tier 2: Duncan, Magic, Shaq (sometimes ABC, sometimes ACB, Duncan is the only constant as far as his spot).

Tier 2.5: Bird.

Tier 3: Hakeem, LeBron, Kobe, Oscar (in that order most of the time, I'll cop to being an Oscar fan and will admit that that's why I occasionally bump him up to 11th. I think he's underrated but that's just a personal thing, plus I have a real affinity for PGs. I also hate kenneth's incessant shit posting, dude knows how to amplify Kobe hate).

[PsychoBe]

To say LeBron doesn't have "a case" is ridiculous. There are arguments to be made for having either player over the other

over kobe? :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

no reasonable or well-respected basketball fan will ever say that bran's resume > kobe's. no one will remember arbitrary stats like "most 30/6/2/3/1 games at home under a fully lit room with a full moon out after the winter solstice"

just stop it.

[Prometheus]

over kobe? :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

no reasonable or well-respected basketball fan will ever say that bran's resume > kobe's. no one will remember arbitrary stats like "most 30/6/2/3/1 games at home under a fully lit room with a full moon out after the winter solstice"

just stop it.

I'm still ranking Kobe ahead if I have to pick, but you're just wrong if you don't think it can go either way.

[Nash]

yes, because exactly like Shaq, Wade was the most dominant force in the league during their finals run and won fmvp both times.

fantastic stuff OP

[Nash]

over kobe? :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

no reasonable or well-respected basketball fan will ever say that bran's resume > kobe's. no one will remember arbitrary stats like "most 30/6/2/3/1 games at home under a fully lit room with a full moon out after the winter solstice"

just stop it.
:roll: :roll: :roll:
People, media and people in the NBA have already started ranking Lebron ahead of Kobe. And he's only 30.

At 30, Lebron has more individual accolades than Kobe, and here I'm counting his two rings with Shaq leading as individual accolades.
and this is without the massive difference in stats that lebron is miles ahead of Kobe.

[PsychoBe]

:roll: :roll: :roll:
People, media and people in the NBA have already started ranking Lebron ahead of Kobe. And he's only 30.

At 30, Lebron has more individual accolades than Kobe, and here I'm counting his two rings with Shaq leading as individual accolades.
and this is without the massive difference in stats that lebron is miles ahead of Kobe.

bran stans letting delusions of grandeur plague their minds :roll: :roll: :roll:

people were already saying bran was better than jordan too? does that make them anymore credible? :roll: :roll: :roll:

[Nash]

bran stans letting delusions of grandeur plague their minds :roll: :roll: :roll:

people were already saying bran was better than jordan too? does that make them anymore credible? :roll: :roll: :roll:
what exactly makes Kobe ahead of Lebron?

and if you say the extra rings with shaq then please just go ahead and hold this L. I can mention 100 other things that proves lebron is the better player.

[PsychoBe]

what exactly makes Kobe ahead of Lebron?

and if you say the extra rings with shaq then please just go ahead and hold this L. I can mention 100 other things that proves lebron is the better player.

dis nikka just can't stop :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

boiled down:

[B]5

[kennethgriffin]

[QUOTE=PsychoBe]dis nikka just can't stop :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

boiled down:

[B]5

[sportjames23]

He'll also have twice as many FMVPs

http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/kevin-garnett-reaction.gif


http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/kevin-garnett-reaction.gif

[Spurs5Rings2014]

Robinson is an all time great talent and first ballot HOF'er which is >>> Parker, so Duncan 3. Which by my estimates means he tops this list. GOAT gonna GOAT.

:bowdown:

[sportjames23]

Steph Curry already caught Kobe in MVP's, and after this season he'll only be one behind Kobe on your arbitrary, bullshit list.


Damn, he sure did.

[Ne 1]

I'm fairly certain I saw your username posted in a thread listing ISH's Kobe stans. Really hurts the credibility, makes it tough.

Despite my dislike for engaging with player stans I'll bite and at least list my tiers of players. If you're interested I can offer some additional insight but for now this is how they're grouped in my eyes.

Tier 1: Jordan, Kareem, Russell, Wilt (in that order).

Tier 2: Duncan, Magic, Shaq (sometimes ABC, sometimes ACB, Duncan is the only constant as far as his spot).

Tier 2.5: Bird.

Tier 3: Hakeem, LeBron, Kobe, Oscar (in that order most of the time, I'll cop to being an Oscar fan and will admit that that's why I occasionally bump him up to 11th. I think he's underrated but that's just a personal thing, plus I have a real affinity for PGs. I also hate kenneth's incessant shit posting, dude knows how to amplify Kobe hate).
You really believe Oscar should be ranked over Kobe Bryant? Do you have any sense of how to evaluate a players legacy? He has 5 rings (4 of which he was a major contributor Co-MVP/MVP) NBA MVP, 2x Finals MVP, scoring titles, 7 Finals appearances etc. etc.) I'm sorry, I know you feel Oscar is underrated but I feel that he's actually somewhat overrated by some fans due to his legend status and the mystic of the triple double season and also with a lot of fans being so obsessive with and overrating "all around" numbers. He only won 1 ring on a team led by Kareem, only led his team to 2 playoff series wins in his entire career as the #1 option and only led his team to 50+ wins once his entire career as the #1 option. What other player considered a consensus top 10 guy would get that kind of pass? His triple double season indicates that he was a good all around player but you have to look at those numbers into some kind of context because obviously the statistics were inflated back then. It was in a setting that can never be replicated in the NBA ever again. On average teams had about 30 more possessions a game, this is a massive edge, especially for assist and scoring numbers.

[Prometheus]

You really believe Oscar should be ranked over Kobe Bryant? Do you have any sense of how to evaluate a players legacy? He has 5 rings (4 of which he was a major contributor Co-MVP/MVP) NBA MVP, 2x Finals MVP, scoring titles, 7 Finals appearances etc. etc.) I'm sorry, I know you feel Oscar is underrated but I feel that he's actually somewhat overrated by some fans due to his legend status and the mystic of the triple double season and also with a lot of fans being so obsessive with and overrating "all around" numbers. He only won 1 ring on a team led by Kareem, only led his team to 2 playoff series wins in his entire career as the #1 option and only led his team to 50+ wins once his entire career as the #1 option. What other player considered a consensus top 10 guy would get that kind of pass? His triple double season indicates that he was a good all around player but you have to look at those numbers into some kind of context because obviously the statistics were inflated back then. It was in a setting that can never be replicated in the NBA ever again. On average teams had about 30 more possessions a game, this is a massive edge, especially for assist and scoring numbers.

:applause:

For real. Oscar has zero case against Kobe.

[warriorfan]

Oscar was a better basketball player than Kobe. Better passer, better rebounder, equal scorer, equal defender. Kobe got more rings and accolades though.

[tmacattack33]

Kobe has 0 rings without the most dominant front court in the league.

[ISHGoat]

Kobe has 0 rings without the most dominant front court in the league.

this

make no mistake, gasol should be all nba 1st team this year. and this is a washed up gasol compared to the prime gasol 5 years ago

[24-Inch_Chrome]

Oscar was a better basketball player than Kobe. Better passer, better rebounder, equal scorer, equal defender. Kobe got more rings and accolades though.

This is basically my view. Most of the time I'll have Kobe at 11th but every so often I'll swap him with Oscar. Same thing happens for me with Magic and Shaq.

[ImKobe]

Oscar was a better basketball player than Kobe. Better passer, better rebounder, equal scorer, equal defender. Kobe got more rings and accolades though.

:oldlol:

Besides stats, he didn't accomplish anything in his era. His only ring came thanks to prime Kareem, and his big numbers came in an era, where there wasn't much depth/skill among guards in the league.

from age 30 and beyond, he averaged 19/5/8 on 48% shooting in 39 mpg, nothing spectacular. And turnovers weren't tracked back then, we don't know how efficient he was distributing the ball, and it was a 9-team league during his peak years. :facepalm

Surely he was a great player and a legend of his own time, but Kobe is a better scorer and easily the more accomplished player. I'm not going to even entertain the thought of comparing the two when one has 1 ring that came as a sidekick and other has 5 rings and put up 1st option numbers at age 22-23 while winning titles and against great competition and in a much deeper league.

And even if we leave all the above aside, can we compare the two as defenders? Kobe's one of the most accomplished defensive wing players in league history while we have zero on Oscar.

[kennethgriffin]

Robinson is an all time great talent and first ballot HOF'er which is >>> Parker, so Duncan 3. Which by my estimates means he tops this list. GOAT gonna GOAT.

:bowdown:


this list is about "what they did without their most success/HOF team mate combo"


besides. kobe has 3 without HOF pau... which ties duncans 3 without parker


so reversed and kobes still atleast tied for #1



but this is about their secondary runs


1999 was duncans alternate run... him with tony was the main one

[Nash]

[QUOTE=PsychoBe]dis nikka just can't stop :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

boiled down:

[B]5

[Ne 1]

Oscar was a better basketball player than Kobe. Better passer, better rebounder, equal scorer, equal defender. Kobe got more rings and accolades though.



Consider this. During Oscar's era the league had about 40-50% more rebounds in a game. Baylor at 6'5 averaged 20 boards a game while scoring 30 points. West at 6'2 got 8 a game. Don Kojis at 6'3 got 11 a game. The list goes on. Not diminishing the players themselves in any way but when you bring up the "triple double season" as evidence of him being a better player than someone, you just can't ignore that. Playing in a certain era should not give an advantage that players now don't have. As far as Oscsr supposedly being a better basketball player, Kobe in the '60s would easily be in the same class as West and Oscar IMO. If you fail to see how teams having 30% more possessions than today inflates stats, then I can't help you. In fact, as the 60s went on and the pace slowed down (only a very marginal decrease), Oscar's rebounding was cut nearly in half despite him being 27-28 years old at the time. His highest PER was never higher than Kobe's in the 05-06 season, so I don't think he has a case statistically over Kobe. He only won two playoff rounds in TEN years as the #1 option, which is unacceptable for a supposed consensus top ten player. He won only one championship on a team where Kareem was by far the best player. If Kobe only won in 2000, the year Shaq was by far the best player on the Lakers and then never won those other 4 rings as the Co-MVP/MVP he would never get a pass for that or be a consensus top 10 player.