since duncans 5 equal kobe. will duncans 6 equal jordan when he wins coming off the B

[kennethgriffin]

.....ench?


its quite obvious aldridge or marc gasol will ring chase to the spurs


duncan will take a bench role...


so itel be

1999 - lockout title with robinson
2003 - legit title with robinson/parker
2005 - manu 20ppg/assist leader/60%fgs in finals wins ( real finals mvp )
2007 - parker finals mvp
2014 - kawhi finals mvp ( duncan 3rd option )
2016 - aldridge or gasol finals mvp ( duncan 6th man )





6 = 6 according to duncan fans

:lol

[keep-itreal]

Duncan has always been the Spurs best player every season.

[kennethgriffin]

IMO duncans only ring without an asterisk was 2003

period

every other one has a major flaw attached to it


his ring prestige goes

1999 - 0.5 half for lockout
2003 - 1.0 full
2005 - 0.8 good co-lead
2007 - 0.8 good co-lead
2014 - 0.3 3rd man


and 2016 = 0.1 sixth man


6 turns into 3.4

[kennethgriffin]

Duncan has always been the Spurs best player every season.

http://media.tumblr.com/7a63233e384fb27e32295ff4b03abf74/tumblr_n8cssdzcpA1sej174o1_400.gif

[SouBeachTalents]

IMO duncans only ring without an asterisk was 2003

period

every other one has a major flaw attached to it


his ring prestige goes

1999 - 0.5 half for lockout
2003 - 1.0 full
2005 - 0.8 good co-lead
2007 - 0.8 good co-lead
2014 - 0.3 3rd man


and 2016 = 0.1 sixth man


6 turns into 3.4

But let me guess, Kobe gets full credit for his first 3 rings, especially 2000

[ISHGoat]

Lmao op going full meltdown mode

If a shortened regular season reduces 1 ring to 0.5, then playing with shaq reduces 1 to 0.2 and playing with gasol reduces 1 to 0.3, so kobe has 1 total ring

Lemme break it down like you did

00 - sidekick, 0.2
01 - sidekick, 0.2
02 - sidekick, 0.2
09 - colead, 0.3
10 - colead, 0.3

5 turns into 1

3.4 > 1

[kennethgriffin]

But let me guess, Kobe gets full credit for his first 3 rings, especially 2000



2000 - 0.7 great 2nd banana ( assist leader, best clutch player, saved wcf's, 21ppg )
2001 - 0.9 goat co-lead ( 29/7/6 = better than most 1st options all time )
2002 - 0.9 goat co-lead ( 27/6/5 = better than most 1st options all time )
2009 - 1.0 full
2010 - 1.0 full



4.5 prestige

[ISHGoat]

2000 - 0.7 great 2nd banana ( assist leader, best clutch player, saved wcf's, 21ppg )
2001 - 0.9 goat co-lead ( 29/7/6 = better than most 1st options all time )
2002 - 0.9 goat co-lead ( 27/6/5 = better than most 1st options all time )
2009 - 1.0 full
2010 - 1.0 full



4.5 prestige

this ***** just making shit up, lets just look at raw stats like scoring without looking at advanced stats like BPM and VORP and WS/48 because they dont benefit kobe

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=376406

kobe has the least playoff impact of the supposed "top 10"

[iamgine]

Equal? No it's better.

[scm5]

Duncan has always been the Spurs best player every season.

Their best and most consistent player, even this season/postseason.

Kobe and Duncan have similar impact on the court and they're within the same tier of player. MJ is on a whole other level.

[kennethgriffin]

Lmao op going full meltdown mode

If a shortened regular season reduces 1 ring to 0.5, then playing with shaq reduces 1 to 0.2 and playing with gasol reduces 1 to 0.3, so kobe has 1 total ring

Lemme break it down like you did

00 - sidekick, 0.2
01 - sidekick, 0.2
02 - sidekick, 0.2
09 - colead, 0.3
10 - colead, 0.3

5 turns into 1

3.4 > 1


1. legit side kick rings = more than a lockout title 0.5... kobe in 2000 was great player... 23ppg season ( low for kobe. but high for duncan ) .. 21ppg playoffs ... saving the wcf and game 4 of the finals.. 19ppg finals average minus the game he got injured in the 1st quarter

2. 2001 and 2002 are the greatest 2nd option stats in nba history for a title. so i dunno how its not the greatest CO-LEAD titles

3. kobe averaged 30ppg and won finals mvp.. so its an automatic 1.0 title for both. gasol averaged 20ppg...


if kobe/shaq isnt co-lead when theyre within 1 point. how can you argue co lead for kobe/gasol when theyre separated by 10 points

:lol



take L's like a chump... i'm the champ around here son

i stay winning

[ISHGoat]

Their best and most consistent player, even this season/postseason.

Kobe and Duncan have similar impact on the court and they're within the same tier of player. MJ is on a whole other level.

actually kobe is nowhere near duncans impact on the court.

[ISHGoat]

1. legit side kick rings = more than a lockout title 0.5... kobe in 2000 was great player... 23ppg season ( low for kobe. but high for duncan ) .. 21ppg playoffs ... saving the wcf and game 4 of the finals.. 19ppg finals average minus the game he got injured in the 1st quarter

2. 2001 and 2002 are the greatest 2nd option stats in nba history for a title. so i dunno how its not the greatest CO-LEAD titles

3. kobe averaged 30ppg and won finals mvp.. so its an automatic 1.0 title for both. gasol averaged 20ppg...


if kobe/shaq isnt co-lead when theyre within 1 point. how can you argue co lead for kobe/gasol when theyre separated by 10 points

:lol



take L's like a chump... i'm the champ around here son

i stay winning

respond to my thread

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=376406

[kennethgriffin]

this ***** just making shit up, lets just look at raw stats like scoring without looking at advanced stats like BPM and VORP and WS/48 because they dont benefit kobe

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=376406

kobe has the least playoff impact of the supposed "top 10"


analytics stay losing

:roll:

youre efficiency garbage favors bigs for a reason. theyre 7 feet and collect rebounds based on position while taking mostly closer shots from limited ability

and pau ran his offense off the kobe pick and roll or screen 80% of the time. meaning his entire game was based off kobe drawing paus defender so he could get a wide open flat footed shot

:roll:

[kennethgriffin]

respond to my thread

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=376406



if kobe/shaq isnt co-lead when theyre within 1 point. how can you argue co lead for kobe/gasol when theyre separated by 10 points


respond to this first

stay losing son

:roll:

[ISHGoat]

analytics stay losing

:roll:

youre efficiency garbage favors bigs for a reason. theyre 7 feet and collect rebounds based on position while taking mostly closer shots from limited ability

and pau ran his offense off the kobe pick and roll or screen 80% of the time. meaning his entire game was based off kobe drawing paus defender so he could get a wide open flat footed shot

:roll:

then why is MJ the goat, even by analytic standards?

in response to your stupid ass post, ppg isnt the only metric. you really have to look deeper than 29/6/6 or whatever to gauge impact.

[EllisGW]

Rings are not everything it's only part of the equation.

[KG215]

IMO duncans only ring without an asterisk was 2003

period

every other one has a major flaw attached to it

That's because you're a dumbass with an agenda.

[ISHGoat]

dont bother arguing with kenneth, he is not interested in keeping an open mind and just pursues his agenda with simple metrics like ppg/ast/reb.

it is no wonder that it is a kobe stan that worships the simple stats and overlooks the more telling advanced stats

[sportjames23]

OP's been on troll overdrive lately. I mean, it's worse than usual.

[kennethgriffin]

dont bother arguing with kenneth, he is not interested in keeping an open mind and just pursues his agenda with simple metrics like ppg/ast/reb.

it is no wonder that it is a kobe stan that worships the simple stats and overlooks the more telling advanced stats


lol i atleast give an honest opinion

i gave duncan a bunch of points for his titles

even during a year another guy won finals mvp i said duncan was co-lead


then you say kobe deserves 0.1 or 0.2 for all his rings cause theyre all bullshit lol


shows which one of us is trying and which one is trolling


if i posted something like that for duncan i'd be banned

but youre safe cause you share the same opinion as the people who run this place







but this isnt a thread and never was supposed to be about duncan vs kobe


i know people give duncan full credit for every title and say he was gods gift to man for each and every one

he lead the spurs for all 5 right?

but what about if he gets 6

?????????

thats my question... then will the overrating continue? will people say he has a full 6 and compares to MJ? LOL

just to spite kobe youre all willing to put duncan on mikes level?

thats* an agenda

[ISHGoat]

lol i atleast give an honest opinion

i gave duncan a bunch of points for his titles

even during a year another guy won finals mvp i said duncan was co-lead


then you say kobe deserves 0.1 or 0.2 for all his rings cause theyre all bullshit lol


shows which one of us is trying and which one is trolling


if i posted something like that for duncan i'd be banned

but youre safe cause you share the same opinion as the people who run this place







but this isnt a thread and never was supposed to be about duncan vs kobe


i know people give duncan full credit for every title and say he was gods gift to man for each and every one

he lead the spurs for all 5 right?

but what about if he gets 6

?????????

thats my question... then will the overrating continue? will people say he has a full 6 and compares to MJ? LOL

just to spite kobe youre all willing to put duncan on mikes level?

thats* an agenda

duncan > kobe

deal with it

[KG215]

1. legit side kick rings = more than a lockout title 0.5... kobe in 2000 was great player... 23ppg season ( low for kobe. but high for duncan ) .. 21ppg playoffs ... saving the wcf and game 4 of the finals.. 19ppg finals average minus the game he got injured in the 1st quarter

2. 2001 and 2002 are the greatest 2nd option stats in nba history for a title. so i dunno how its not the greatest CO-LEAD titles

3. kobe averaged 30ppg and won finals mvp.. so its an automatic 1.0 title for both. gasol averaged 20ppg...


if kobe/shaq isnt co-lead when theyre within 1 point. how can you argue co lead for kobe/gasol when theyre separated by 10 points

:lol



take L's like a chump... i'm the champ around here son

i stay winning
It's hilarious that, after all these years, you still center every "Kobe vs _______" argument around points scored, and haven't figured out there's another end of the floor where players play this thing called defense. And before you bring up the All-Defense 1st team bullshit, Kobe never had close to the same amount of impact on defense as Duncan. I mean even in Kobe's best defensive seasons he wasn't as impactful on that end of the floor as Duncan has been the last several season.

[kennethgriffin]

duncan > kobe

deal with it


that isnt the topic


if duncan gets 6 in the fashion he attained #5 or in even lesser a role.. is he = to jordan or better


since duncans 5 automatically put him above kobe

answer the question p*ssy

:roll:

[ISHGoat]

whats the question? sorry i couldnt follow through all your agenda and arbitrary ranking rules and arbitrary ring value assignments.

I get what youre trying to do, youre trying to assess how much a player contributed to their championship run right? Well why dont you look at something NOT ARBITRARY and NOT SUBJECTIVE like WS/48 in the playoffs for that season then? Cos that doesnt favor kobe.

You know how you can calculate "ring value"?

Take the spurs 2014 championship roster. Look at their highest ws/48 in the playoffs. Duncan has .204, Leonard has .191. This is basically telling us duncan was more valuable to his team, which is definitely a reasonable conclusion because duncan is a big that anchors his team's defense.

Lets look at the 96 bulls. MJ has a playoff ws48 of .306, pippen has .195. MJ gets 1 full ring for being the ws48 leader on his team. Pippen gets 195/306 = 0.64 of a ring.

Do this for any combination of players in any year and you will find that it is surprisingly accurate. The leader of ws48 on the championship gets the full ring. Everyone else just divides their ws48 by the leaders to calculate their "ring value"

[T_L_P]

that isnt the topic


if duncan gets 6 in the fashion he attained #5 or in even lesser a role.. is he = to jordan or better


since duncans 5 automatically put him above kobe

answer the question p*ssy

:roll:

Duncan's 2nd ring did that, tbh.

[T_L_P]

whats the question? sorry i couldnt follow through all your agenda and arbitrary ranking rules and arbitrary ring value assignments.

I get what youre trying to do, youre trying to assess how much a player contributed to their championship run right? Well why dont you look at something NOT ARBITRARY and NOT SUBJECTIVE like WS/48 in the playoffs for that season then? Cos that doesnt favor kobe.

Like you said, don't bother.

I've asked him multiple times: Duncan or Kobe as a defensive player, and he boils it down to "both have x amount of All-D teams, they are both two of the best, leave it at that".

The dude thinks he's a genius because he can warp everything into completely arbitrary numbers. :oldlol:

[Spurs5Rings2014]

Was coming in here to slay dude, but found he had already overdosed on a healthy serving of administered rat poison.

:applause:

[T_L_P]

whats the question? sorry i couldnt follow through all your agenda and arbitrary ranking rules and arbitrary ring value assignments.

I get what youre trying to do, youre trying to assess how much a player contributed to their championship run right? Well why dont you look at something NOT ARBITRARY and NOT SUBJECTIVE like WS/48 in the playoffs for that season then? Cos that doesnt favor kobe.

You know how you can calculate "ring value"?

Take the spurs 2014 championship roster. Look at their highest ws/48 in the playoffs. Duncan has .204, Leonard has .191. This is basically telling us duncan was more valuable to his team, which is definitely a reasonable conclusion because duncan is a big that anchors his team's defense.

Lets look at the 96 bulls. MJ has a playoff ws48 of .306, pippen has .195. MJ gets 1 full ring for being the ws48 leader on his team. Pippen gets 195/306 = 0.64 of a ring.

Do this for any combination of players in any year and you will find that it is surprisingly accurate. The leader of ws48 on the championship gets the full ring. Everyone else just divides their ws48 by the leaders to calculate their "ring value"


The season-long WS disparity on their own teams is insane for Kobe and Duncan.

From 96-15, Kobe lead his team in total Win Shares (Reg Season+Playoffs) 5 times iirc (05, 06, 07, 08, 13). :biggums:

From 98-15, Duncan lead his team in Win Shares 13 times (99, 00, 01, 02, 03, 04, 06, 07, 08, 09, 10, 14, 15). :bowdown:

[ISHGoat]

The season-long WS disparity on their own teams is insane for Kobe and Duncan.

From 96-15, Kobe lead his team in total Win Shares (Reg Season+Playoffs) 5 times iirc (05, 06, 07, 08, 13). :biggums:

From 98-15, Duncan lead his team in Win Shares 13 times (99, 00, 01, 02, 03, 04, 06, 07, 08, 09, 10, 14, 15). :bowdown:

Easy conclusion for anyone that watched both sides of basketball :bowdown:

However you really can't blame casual Kobe stans for being brainwashed by the media and the flash of kobes game. To be honest, I'd rather watch Kobe than Duncan play anyway, but if we're talkig about who I want on my team? ***** please

[ApexPredator]

Duncan's 5 equal Kobe's because he was top dog for 3 of the 5, while Kobe was top dog for 2 of his 5. MJ was top dog for 6 of his 6, so no, Duncan's won't equal MJ's.

[sportjames23]

Was coming in here to slay dude, but found he had already overdosed on a healthy serving of administered rat poison.

:applause:


:roll: :roll: :roll:

[ImKobe]

Duncan's 5 equal Kobe's because he was top dog for 3 of the 5, while Kobe was top dog for 2 of his 5. MJ was top dog for 6 of his 6, so no, Duncan's won't equal MJ's.

http://i1000.photobucket.com/albums/af130/superfake123/SMH/6782f54e.gif

Kobe's production in the 2001 Playoffs is better than 4 of Timmy's 5 Playoff runs..

32/7/6 (with 9.6 points a game in the 4th on above 50% shooting) in the first 3 rounds.

[ShawkFactory]

Of course it would be equal. 6=6, as you said.

However, unlike Kobe there really isn't a question as to who the better player is between Duncan and Jordan.

Jordan being above Kobe isn't because he has 6 and Kobe has 5. It's because he was just a better basketball player. Plain and simple.

[Straight_Ballin]

actually kobe is nowhere near duncans impact on the court.

Anyone who watches the games instead of Kobe highlights knows this.:lol

[Straight_Ballin]

http://i1000.photobucket.com/albums/af130/superfake123/SMH/6782f54e.gif

Kobe's production in the 2001 Playoffs is better than 4 of Timmy's 5 Playoff runs..

32/7/6 (with 9.6 points a game in the 4th on above 50% shooting) in the first 3 rounds.

:lol Production in one playoffs run? A win is a win. Duncan was top dog for more finals appearances than Kobe was. Duncan is better. End of story.

[rmt]

this ***** just making shit up, lets just look at raw stats like scoring without looking at advanced stats like BPM and VORP and WS/48 because they dont benefit kobe

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=376406

kobe has the least playoff impact of the supposed "top 10"

Amazing how Kobe doesn't show up well among any stats. The difference between Kobe and Duncan is significant much less vs MJ.

[ApexPredator]

http://i1000.photobucket.com/albums/af130/superfake123/SMH/6782f54e.gif

Kobe's production in the 2001 Playoffs is better than 4 of Timmy's 5 Playoff runs..

32/7/6 (with 9.6 points a game in the 4th on above 50% shooting) in the first 3 rounds.

And he wouldn't have won with any other C at that time (unless you count Duncan as a C). Meanwhile, Shaq and Duncan could have won with any number of interchangeable teammates. Duncan only needed role players to win his first 3. Shaq, could have taken any all-star SG and won.

[Ne 1]

2005 Manu had a case, but so did Duncan, ultimately, Duncan got it and he had as big of an impact on that series as anyone so I wouldn't call him the "real MVP of the Finals."

[ImKobe]

:lol Production in one playoffs run? A win is a win. Duncan was top dog for more finals appearances than Kobe was. Duncan is better. End of story.

what?

Tim Duncan 2005 championship run - 24/12/3 with 2.3 blocks on 46% shooting, 24.9 PER, .191 WS/48, 53%TS
Kobe Bryant 2001 championship run - 29/7/6 with 1.6 steals 0.8 blocks on 47% shooting, 25 PER, .260 WS/48, led everyone in the Playoffs in total winshares, 56%TS

Manu averaged 21/6/4 on 51/44/80 shooting and had a 24.8 PER, 65%TS

Duncan averaged 20.6 ppg on 41,9% shooting in the Finals with 66,7% from the FT line, his 47%TS IIRC is the worst by any FMVP in the modern era.

Duncan averaging 21/14 with 2 blocks is more impressive than Kobe averaging 25/8/6 with 1.4 blocks on the Finals stage?

[Ne 1]

And he wouldn't have won with any other C at that time (unless you count Duncan as a C). Meanwhile, Shaq and Duncan could have won with any number of interchangeable teammates. Duncan only needed role players to win his first 3. Shaq, could have taken any all-star SG and won.
Duck Tales. Shaq played with prime Penny and had an All-Star backcourt of Eddie Jones/Nick Van Exel yet it was not until Kobe developed into one of the NBA's premiere players that he finally won those elusive rings. He also played with Wade, LeBron, Steve Nash and in his entire career he won just 1 ring without Kobe but we're supposed to believe Shaq was an automatic championship and you could simply substitute Kobe, the 2nd greatest SG in NBA history for just any random All-Star swingman/guard and the Lakers would still be a dynasty?

[ApexPredator]

Duck Tales. Shaq played with prime Penny and had an All-Star backcourt of Eddie Jones/Nick Van Exel yet it was not until Kobe developed into one of the NBA's premiere players that he finally won those elusive rings. He also played with Wade, LeBron, Steve Nash and in his entire career he won just 1 ring without Kobe but we're supposed to believe Shaq was an automatic championship and you could simply substitute Kobe, the 2nd greatest SG in NBA history for just any random All-Star swingman/guard and the Lakers would still be a dynasty?

Duck Tales. Shaq started winning when he got Phil Jackson. Before that, they had Del Harris for years, including coaching change ups in the middle of a shorten 1999 season. Shaq + Phil + Penny would have won with the rest of the Lakers supporting cast.

[Straight_Ballin]

Duck Tales. Shaq started winning when he got Phil Jackson. Before that, they had Del Harris for years, including coaching change ups in the middle of a shorten 1999 season. Shaq + Phil + Penny + Skiles would have won with the rest of the Lakers supporting cast.

Fixed

NOBODY got Shaq the ball quite like Scott did. Shit, the man had 30 assists in one game that's how good he was. To win, you need shaq to have ball. To ensure that shaq always gets the ball in the best possible scoring position time and time again, you need Scott and Phil. Guarantsheed that Shaq scores 90+ points with PJ's guidance and Penny to mix it up.

http://www.rantsports.com/clubhouse/files/2014/04/Skiles-Shaq-Intro1.jpg

[toxicxr6]

Does OP even know about the FMVP award
Duncan 3>Kobe 2


How about the MVP award
Duncan 2>Kobe 1


How about defence.. Which is essentially just as important as offense

Duncan>Kobe

OP wants to stick to the basics because all the advanced stats also
Duncan> Kobe

So above is as simple as it gets as to why
Duncan's 5 rings > Kobe 5 rings


And for Jordan... He has a bucket load more fmvps and mvps so sometimes the most simple stats work out the right way


Jordan>duncan> Kobe

And that's the way it will always be

[Ne 1]

Duck Tales. Shaq started winning when he got Phil Jackson. Before that, they had Del Harris for years, including coaching change ups in the middle of a shorten 1999 season. Shaq + Phil + Penny would have won with the rest of the Lakers supporting cast.
Eh, ultimately, it's a players league. Also depending how badly he does considering he's like a proxy coach in NYC, it might even detract from his Lakers impact a further prove it's a players league. Even Pop had said so.

[ISHGoat]

Does OP even know about the FMVP award
Duncan 3>Kobe 2


How about the MVP award
Duncan 2>Kobe 1


How about defence.. Which is essentially just as important as offense

Duncan>Kobe

OP wants to stick to the basics because all the advanced stats also
Duncan> Kobe

So above is as simple as it gets as to why
Duncan's 5 rings > Kobe 5 rings


And for Jordan... He has a bucket load more fmvps and mvps so sometimes the most simple stats work out the right way


Jordan>duncan> Kobe

And that's the way it will always be

this

op getting slayed by every singler ISHer really hard in his own thread

but watch out, hes going to come out and paste kobe's all defensive team awards and sports illustrated athlete of the decade award

[ApexPredator]

Fixed

NOBODY got Shaq the ball quite like Scott did. Shit, the man had 30 assists in one game that's how good he was. To win, you need shaq to have ball. To ensure that shaq always gets the ball in the best possible scoring position time and time again, you need Scott and Phil. Guarantsheed that Shaq scores 90+ points with PJ's guidance and Penny to mix it up.

http://www.rantsports.com/clubhouse/files/2014/04/Skiles-Shaq-Intro1.jpg

Skiles was awesome, but sometimes he gets slightly overrated because of that game. He never averaged over 10asts like the other great passers, though did get close once when he averaged nearly 40mpg playing alongside rookie Shaq.

The mid-90s Magic likely would not have won with Phil, but had a chance. Lakers still would have been favorites in the early 2000s with Penny instead of Kobe. It is just dumb to think that the difference between mid-90s Magic and early 2000s Lakers is simply Kobe instead of Penny as NE 1 indicated.

[ApexPredator]

Eh, ultimately, it's a players league. Also depending how badly he does considering he's like a proxy coach in NYC, it might even detract from his Lakers impact a further prove it's a players league. Even Pop had said so.

It's a players league with the exception of guys like Pop and Phil (and Riley not too long ago). Those coaches are more vital than many players and are often the key difference between simply being a pretender and year after year contenders that actually find ways of winning.

[kennethgriffin]

Kobe haters praying duncan doesnt get 6 so theyel have to finally discredit some of his titles


Theyel boost his 5 to be over kobes even though he was a 3rd option for the last one


But if he got to 6 all these idiots will finally be on our side...


I hope the spurs win again lol

[kennethgriffin]

People talk about finals mvps


But


Kobes 2001 playoff run is better than any of duncans finals mvp runs


29/7/6 = prime jordan type stats


Kobe didnt win finals mvp but he did more for that title as a 2 man combo team than duncan ever did for any title period

[24-Inch_Chrome]

Even though he doesn't log as many minutes as he did during his prime, Duncan's impact on San Antonio's success is not debatable. Duncan > Kobe, now and forever.

[ISHGoat]

Even though he doesn't log as many minutes as he did during his prime, Duncan's impact on San Antonio's success is not debatable. Duncan > Kobe, now and forever.

Hold this

:roll:

:roll:

:roll:

:roll:

:roll:

:roll:

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

OP

Kenneth reverting to posting 29/7/6 without a care in the world for stats like ws48, BPM, VORP, PER, ORTG, DRTG

[SouBeachTalents]

People talk about finals mvps


But


Kobes 2001 playoff run is better than any of duncans finals mvp runs


29/7/6 = prime jordan type stats


Kobe didnt win finals mvp but he did more for that title as a 2 man combo team than duncan ever did for any title period

Duncan's '03 > any Kobe title run

[kennethgriffin]

Duncan's '03 > any Kobe title run


Thats debatable

What cant be argued however is kobes 2001 non finals mvp run was better than duncans 1999 and 2005 finals mvp run


So its not jut about winning finals mvp


I'd rank them

#1 kobe 2009
#2 duncan 2003
#3 kobe 2010
#4 kobe 2001
#5 kobe 2002
#6 duncan 1999
#7 duncan 2005
#8 kobe 2000
#9 duncan 2007
#10 duncan 2014


2000 kobe (his lowest rated title) does not lose finals mvp to kawhie or parker...

[Anaximandro1]

not all rings are created equal


-Jordan carried a heavier load than Duncan

-Duncan carried a heavier load than Kobe


eye test, and stats say the same thing

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-IdZMK72bVJs/VVueQzXJfPI/AAAAAAAAEXs/6uh6YA1CIps/s1600/103.jpg

[ISHGoat]

not all rings are created equal


-Jordan carried a heavier load than Duncan

-Duncan carried a heavier load than Kobe


eye test, and stats say the same thing

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-IdZMK72bVJs/VVueQzXJfPI/AAAAAAAAEXs/6uh6YA1CIps/s1600/103.jpg

Hope you don't expect a response from op to your post because, you know, you make too much sense

[kennethgriffin]

not all rings are created equal


-Jordan carried a heavier load than Duncan

-Duncan carried a heavier load than Kobe


eye test, and stats say the same thing

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-IdZMK72bVJs/VVueQzXJfPI/AAAAAAAAEXs/6uh6YA1CIps/s1600/103.jpg


I dont believe in analytics

Per has bill russell ranked out of the top 100 all time


And if winshares are the end all be all then kobe > shaq in the 2001 playoffs




Too many flaws

[HOoopCityJones]

Duck Tales. Shaq played with prime Penny and had an All-Star backcourt of Eddie Jones/Nick Van Exel yet it was not until Kobe developed into one of the NBA's premiere players that he finally won those elusive rings. He also played with Wade, LeBron, Steve Nash and in his entire career he won just 1 ring without Kobe but we're supposed to believe Shaq was an automatic championship and you could simply substitute Kobe, the 2nd greatest SG in NBA history for just any random All-Star swingman/guard and the Lakers would still be a dynasty?

Dont do em like that. :biggums:

[ApexPredator]

Dont do em like that. :biggums:

You overlooked the rebuttal. Intentionally I assume.

[HOoopCityJones]

No, it was just trash.

[rmt]

what?

Tim Duncan 2005 championship run - 24/12/3 with 2.3 blocks on 46% shooting, 24.9 PER, .191 WS/48, 53%TS
Kobe Bryant 2001 championship run - 29/7/6 with 1.6 steals 0.8 blocks on 47% shooting, 25 PER, .260 WS/48, led everyone in the Playoffs in total winshares, 56%TS

Manu averaged 21/6/4 on 51/44/80 shooting and had a 24.8 PER, 65%TS

Duncan averaged 20.6 ppg on 41,9% shooting in the Finals with 66,7% from the FT line, his 47%TS IIRC is the worst by any FMVP in the modern era.

Duncan averaging 21/14 with 2 blocks is more impressive than Kobe averaging 25/8/6 with 1.4 blocks on the Finals stage?

Maybe you don't remember who was being double-teamed in 2001 - it surely wasn't Kobe.

And maybe you think that it was Manu who was being double-teamed instead of Duncan. Maybe you've forgotten how the Spurs won game 7. Here are a few reminders:

"His complete game is so sound, so fundamnetal, so unnoticed at times, because if he didn't score, people think, 'Well, he didn't do anything,'" Spurs coach Gregg Popovich said. "But he was incredible and he was the force that got it done for us."

"You follow your leader," Spurs guard Tony Parker said. "Timmy is the leader of the team, and he just carried us tonight."

"He put his team on his shoulders and carried them to a championship," Pistons center Ben Wallace said. "That's what the great players do."

"You could tell when he caught the ball, how much more physical he was, getting in position and bumping and grinding and getting shots and making sure he got toward the rim, so that when people came at him he was in good position to open up a teammate," Popovich said.

"A lot of the shots they made, open shots, came as a result of us having a hard time guarding him," Brown said. "That's why he's such a great player."

"Rasheed was strapped all game," Brown said. "If you don't have your big people with the ability to play aggressively on Duncan, you've got no shot."

http://web.archive.org/web/20090219212308/http://www.nba.com/games/20050623/DETSAS/recap.html

Compare that with:

"Ron Artest was the most valuable player tonight," Phil Jackson said. "He brought life to our team."

"... the more I tried to push, the more it kept getting away from me.

[kennethgriffin]

Analytics are for geeky henry abbott lookin ass bitches that never picked up a ball on the9r life... the inconsistencies are enough but when you look at the people who actually use the formulas. Its obvious theyre worthless to say the least


Watching kobe dominate duncan head to head should be enough of a tie breaker in the 5 ring debate

But seeing as duncan lost finals mvps to guys like kawhi and parker who wouldnt even win them over kobe from 1998 ... its obvioua duncans impact was minimal in atleast 2 of his 5 titles..

Kobe on the other hand had 4 legit boss status rings with prime jordan lines






In the end all im saying is these things will be exposed if duncan wins 6

I hope it happens

[24-Inch_Chrome]

Watching kobe dominate duncan head to head should be enough of a tie breaker in the 5 ring debate



When were they matched up against one another? I must have missed that... :rolleyes:

[swagga]

IMO duncans only ring without an asterisk was 2003

period

every other one has a major flaw attached to it


his ring prestige goes

1999 - 0.5 half for lockout
2003 - 1.0 full
2005 - 0.8 good co-lead
2007 - 0.8 good co-lead
2014 - 0.3 3rd man


and 2016 = 0.1 sixth man


6 turns into 3.4

rent free tbh.

[ShawkFactory]

People talk about finals mvps


But


Kobes 2001 playoff run is better than any of duncans finals mvp runs


29/7/6 = prime jordan type stats


Kobe didnt win finals mvp but he did more for that title as a 2 man combo team than duncan ever did for any title period
Those are not prime Jordan stats. Jordan averaged less than 30 ppg in the playoffs ONCE in his career...as a rookie. But he also dished out 9 assists a game.

For being a Kobe fan (and thus not wanting to look at FMVPs as much) you sure do like to hold 2007 against Duncan. Look at his numbers against the Suns, only team they were not favored against that year and probably the favorite in the west. Hint hint...it's a lot better than Parker's numbers. He boned peak Amare.

His numbers were better in the playoffs. By a pretty significant margin. And the gap is even steeper if you include only the west teams.

[ShawkFactory]

When were they matched up against one another? I must have missed that... :rolleyes:
Duncan was dealing with the best player on Kobe's team :lol

[kennethgriffin]

When were they matched up against one another? I must have missed that... :rolleyes:



How about the 25-30 times kobes stuck his nuts down duncans throat


Did they matchup then?

[qrich]

2000 - 0.7 great 2nd banana ( assist leader, best clutch player, saved wcf's, 21ppg )
2001 - 0.9 goat co-lead ( 29/7/6 = better than most 1st options all time )
2002 - 0.9 goat co-lead ( 27/6/5 = better than most 1st options all time )
2009 - 1.0 full
2010 - 1.0 full

4.5 prestige

Nah, it's more like:

2000: 0.4 Role playing second ption.
2001: 0.8 Second banana
2002: 0.8 Second Banana
2003: -0.8 Costing the team the ring
2009: 1.0 Give it to him
2010: 0.8 That 6/24 Finale costs him.

3.0 Prestige

[ImKobe]

[QUOTE=rmt]Maybe you don't remember who was being double-teamed in 2001 - it surely wasn't Kobe.

And maybe you think that it was Manu who was being double-teamed instead of Duncan. Maybe you've forgotten how the Spurs won game 7. Here are a few reminders:

"His complete game is so sound, so fundamnetal, so unnoticed at times, because if he didn't score, people think, 'Well, he didn't do anything,'" Spurs coach Gregg Popovich said. "But he was incredible and he was the force that got it done for us."

"You follow your leader," Spurs guard Tony Parker said. "Timmy is the leader of the team, and he just carried us tonight."

"He put his team on his shoulders and carried them to a championship," Pistons center Ben Wallace said. "That's what the great players do."

"You could tell when he caught the ball, how much more physical he was, getting in position and bumping and grinding and getting shots and making sure he got toward the rim, so that when people came at him he was in good position to open up a teammate," Popovich said.

"A lot of the shots they made, open shots, came as a result of us having a hard time guarding him," Brown said. "That's why he's such a great player."

"Rasheed was strapped all game," Brown said. "If you don't have your big people with the ability to play aggressively on Duncan, you've got no shot."

http://web.archive.org/web/20090219212308/http://www.nba.com/games/20050623/DETSAS/recap.html

Compare that with:

"Ron Artest was the most valuable player tonight," Phil Jackson said. "He brought life to our team."

"... the more I tried to push, the more it kept getting away from me.

[kennethgriffin]

Nah, it's more like:

2000: 0.4 Role playing second ption.
2001: 0.8 Second banana
2002: 0.8 Second Banana
2003: -0.8 Costing the team the ring
2009: 1.0 Give it to him
2010: 0.8 That 6/24 Finale costs him.

3.0 Prestige


2003? This dumbass doesnt even know when the lakers and pistons played lol

duncans blown 3 series vs kobe with homecourt advantage and 7 or 8 years overall with the #1 seed

Hes a notorious choker

Blew 2 wide open layups to win the 2013 nba finals

What does that bring duncan down to?

Negative 5?



And if kobes a role player with 21ppg playoffs and leading assist man

Then what does that say about duncans entire career?

Isnt that the norm for timothy?

[warriorfan]

OP knows the least about basketball out of anyone on the forum

[rmt]

one Finals game

and to compare

Kobe Game 7 vs Boston - 23 pts 15 reb 2 ast on 6-24 shooting

Duncan Game 7 vs Detroit - 25 pts 11 reb 3 ast on 10-27 shooting


Kobe's averages first 6 games of 2010 Finals
30/7/4 with 2.3 steals on 43/37/93 shooting

Duncan's averages first 6 games of 2005 Finals
20/15/2 2.2 blocks on 43% shooting with 65% from the FT line


:rolleyes:

Duncan 05 Finals is statistically worse than Kobe's 01, 02, 09 and 2010 Finals, sorry bud.

Don't make assumptions - I'm not a bud. You do know that 37% > 25% right? And that Shaq (and Duncan) was the one being doubled (not Kobe).I guess you don't put much stock in the comments of coaches (Pop, Brown, Phil), team mate (Parker), opponent (Wallace) and Kobe himself.

[ApexPredator]

No, it was just trash.

You are a moron if you don't think Phil makes a significant difference.

[Taller than CP3]

Duncan's 6th ring shouldn't even count if he's coming off the bench.

[ApexPredator]

Duncan's 6th ring shouldn't even count if he's coming off the bench.

Does Manu's not count? What about Bill Walton on the Celtics? All that matters is how he contributes.

[Cleverness]

why does this have 6 pages? dude is goat troll:applause:

[Prometheus]

Nah, it's more like:

2000: 0.4 Role playing second ption.
2001: 0.8 Second banana
2002: 0.8 Second Banana
2003: -0.8 Costing the team the ring
2009: 1.0 Give it to him
2010: 0.8 That 6/24 Finale costs him.

3.0 Prestige

2000: 0.6 great role player, contributed in key moments
2001: 0.9 second option, but first option numbers
2002: 0.0 TIM DONAGHY
2004: 0.0 wtf is this negative for? fk outa here
2009: 1.0
2010: 0.8 6/24 and Pau with better advanced #'s

3.3 Prestige

vs.

1991: 1.0 GOAT
1992: 1.0 GOAT
1993: 1.0 GOAT
1996: 1.0 GOAT
1997: 1.0 GOAT
1998: 1.0 GOAT

6.0 :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

vs.

2012: 1.0
2013: 0.8 came up big in the final games, but Ray Ray

1.8 :oldlol:

EDIT: forgot 2012 was lockout. Change it to 0.8 for a total of 1.6

[rmt]

And another all-defensive 2nd team for Timmy - anchored the team 2nd in Defensive Rating and 3rd in Opponent Pts/game. Pity he never won DPOY - should have gotten it instead of Camby.

[Prometheus]

why does this have 6 pages? dude is goat troll:applause:

In terms of bullying others, he's a pretty weak troll.

But if you're talking about forum impact, ability to get responses and traffic...

I'd say you're right. kenneth would have to be the GOAT.

[Taller than CP3]

Does Manu's not count? What about Bill Walton on the Celtics? All that matters is how he contributes.

Duncan winning another ring coming off the bench when you're a Superstar being compared to MJ's 6th and Kobe's 5th does absolutely nothing for his legacy. If anything, it hinders it. Just like how Parker and Kawhi won Finals MVP over him. Now he'll be coming off the bench.

Don't know why you're trying to compare Timmy to Manu and Walton. Get your facts straight. Manu was never on Duncan's level. He thrives off the bench. Walton was injury prone.

[24-Inch_Chrome]

Duncan winning another ring coming off the bench when you're a Superstar being compared to MJ's 6th and Kobe's 5th does absolutely nothing for his legacy. If anything, it hinders it.

Don't know why you're trying to compare Timmy to Manu and Walton. Get your facts straight. Manu was never on Duncan's level. He thrives off the bench. Walton was injury prone and didn't win a ring until joining the Celtics.

Another ring coming off the bench? He has started every finals game he has every played and has never come off the bench in the playoffs (241/241, 38.0 MPG for his career playoffs per game average). There was never a first ring off the bench. Stop spouting troll narrative and use the wonderful resource that is the internet.

[Taller than CP3]

Another ring coming off the bench? He has started every finals game he has every played and has never come off the bench in the playoffs (241/241, 38.0 MPG for his career playoffs per game average). There was never a first ring off the bench. Stop spouting troll narrative and use the wonderful resource that is the internet.

Shows how stupid you are. You know what I meant. When I said another ring, I meant his 6th, not because he was coming off the bench you illiterate dumbass.

[kennethgriffin]

2000: 0.6 great role player, contributed in key moments
2001: 0.9 second option, but first option numbers
2002: 0.0 TIM DONAGHY
2004: 0.0 wtf is this negative for? fk outa here
2009: 1.0
2010: 0.8 6/24 and Pau with better advanced #'s

3.3 Prestige

vs.

1991: 1.0 GOAT
1992: 1.0 GOAT
1993: 1.0 GOAT
1996: 1.0 GOAT
1997: 1.0 GOAT
1998: 1.0 GOAT

6.0 :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

vs.

2012: 1.0
2013: 0.8 came up big in the final games, but Ray Ray

1.8 :oldlol:

EDIT: forgot 2012 was lockout. Change it to 0.8 for a total of 1.6




1991: 0.0 ( jordan got torched by magic game 1. scottie saved the series )
1992: 1.0
1993: 0.0 ( paxson game winning shot to win the championship/bail out )
1996: 0.0 ( george karl said rodman was the real finals MVP)
1997: 0.0 ( kerr game winning shot to win the championship/bail out )
1998: 0.0 ( push off/offensive foul asterisk* game winner )

1.0 prestige



see... this is what you people look like



i on the other hand actually give an honest effort on here.

[24-Inch_Chrome]

Shows how stupid you are. You know what I meant. When I said another ring, I meant his 6th, not because he was coming off the bench you illiterate dumbass.

Why talk about Kobe's 5th then? Duncan's five at the very least equate to Kobe's five. He doesn't need another ring to surpass Kobe, he's already past him. Your post wasn't worded very well anyway.

[kennethgriffin]

Why talk about Kobe's 5th then? Duncan's five at the very least equate to Kobe's five. He doesn't need another ring to surpass Kobe, he's already past him. Your post wasn't worded very well anyway.

i say they dont equate

duncans rings

Duncan: (P/R/A)
1999 - 23/11/2 ( With HOF Robinson ) + lockout
2003 - 24/15/5 ( with HOF Robinspn/Parker )
2005 - 23/12/2 ( with HOF Parker/Ginobili )
2007 - 22/11/3 ( with HOF Parker/Ginobili )
2014 - 15/9/2 ( with HOF Parker/Ginobili and FMVP Leonard ) 3rd man


combined = 21.4ppg

1 title with 3 future HOF'rs
4 titles with atleast 2 future HOFrs




vs





Kobe: (P/R/A)
2000 - 21/5/5 ( with HOF Shaq )
2001 - 29/7/6 ( with HOF shaq )
2002 - 27/6/5 ( with HOF shaq )
2009 - 30/5/5 ( with HOF pau )
2010 - 30/6/5 ( with HOF pau )

combined = 27.4ppg

all 5 titles with only 1 other HOF'r






head to head 4-2 in favor of kobe

?

duncan = never repeated

kobe = 3 successful repeats ( 2001,2002,2010 )

kobe = 1 three peat


?

:confusedshrug: :biggums:

[24-Inch_Chrome]

Thankfully no one takes you or your agenda seriously. :oldlol:

Duncan > Kobe, now and forever.

[kennethgriffin]

Thankfully no one takes you or your agenda seriously. :oldlol:

Duncan > Kobe, now and forever.

thankfully some people here CAN READ

even if others refuse to or are unable to ( like yourself )

[Ai2death]

I don't know who the bigger idiot is, kennith for either being a stupid troll or if he actually believes this shit he's dribbling.. or all the idiots seriously replying to this dude... :facepalm

[Timmy D for MVP]

Why would he be coming off the bench?

[24-Inch_Chrome]

thankfully some people here CAN READ

even if others refuse to or are unable to ( like yourself )

:oldlol:

Reading it doesn't make your agenda any less ridiculous.

[kennethgriffin]

Why would he be coming off the bench?


because marc gasol and lamarcus aldridge wanna ring chase with the spurs apparently

and no way theyel come off the bench for a 40 year old

[Real14]

Duncan's 5 don't even equals Kobe's 5.

[Prometheus]

1991: 0.0 ( jordan got torched by magic game 1. scottie saved the series )
1992: 1.0
1993: 0.0 ( paxson game winning shot to win the championship/bail out )
1996: 0.0 ( george karl said rodman was the real finals MVP)
1997: 0.0 ( kerr game winning shot to win the championship/bail out )
1998: 0.0 ( push off/offensive foul asterisk* game winner )

1.0 prestige



see... this is what you people look like



i on the other hand actually give an honest effort on here.

Dude my ring assessment was 100% honest. Notice I gave Kobe way more credit than LeBron? Go back and read what I did. I wasn't being the slightest bit disingenuous.

[riseagainst]

Nah, it's more like:

2000: 0.4 Role playing second ption.
2001: 0.8 Second banana
2002: 0.8 Second Banana
2003: -0.8 Costing the team the ring
2009: 1.0 Give it to him
2010: 0.8 That 6/24 Finale costs him.

3.0 Prestige

LOL @ 2003.

:biggums:
:wtf:

[kennethgriffin]

Dude my ring assessment was 100% honest. Notice I gave Kobe way more credit than LeBron? Go back and read what I did. I wasn't being the slightest bit disingenuous.


kobe has atleast 4 legit titles.

his last 2 were perfect
his 2 before that were nearly perfect
his first one was a good 2nd banana

a little more than 4 worth of ring weight IMO. not a full 5 but more than duncan.. thats all i'm sure of

way more asterisks surrounding duncans

99 lockout
03 legit
05 manu fmvp
07 parker fmvp
14 kawhi fmvp ( 3rd option behind leonard/parker )


theres so much wrong with this picture... kobe never won as a 3rd option. kobe never won in a lockout year. kobe would never lose finals mvps to parker or leonard. kobe would never be outshined by manu. kobe never won with more than 1 other HOF'r

[riseagainst]

Kobe sucks dude. He was carried through out his career by dominant championship caliber front courts who would rebound his bricks.

[KG215]

kobe has atleast 4 legit titles.

his last 2 were perfect
his 2 before that were nearly perfect
his first one was a good 2nd banana

a little more than 4 worth of ring weight IMO. not a full 5 but more than duncan.. thats all i'm sure of

way more asterisks surrounding duncans

99 lockout
03 legit
05 manu fmvp
07 parker fmvp
14 kawhi fmvp ( 3rd option behind leonard/parker )


theres so much wrong with this picture... kobe never won as a 3rd option. kobe never won in a lockout year. kobe would never lose finals mvps to parker or leonard. kobe would never be outshined by manu. kobe never won with more than 1 other HOF'r
You really are either just a terrible, not even kind of clever troll. Or you're a f***ing moron.

[kennethgriffin]

Kobe sucks dude. He was carried through out his career by dominant championship caliber front courts who would rebound his bricks.

bynum averaged 6ppg for both titles

odom never made an allstar team

gasol is 0-16 as leader without kobe in the playoffs


without kobe odom is a crackhead that cant stay in the nba. bynum is trash that got shat out the league at 25 years old. gasol quit the series vs cleveland with a thigh bruise


gasols only playoff win without kobe came on the backs of rose/butler setting him up for wide open flat footed jumpers.



you call any of this "dominance"?

[Prometheus]

Tim Donaghy literally came out and confessed that he and other officials fabricated game six of the Kings series in 2002 so that they could make money. That ring does not count. Period.

[sportjames23]

Duncan's 5 don't even equals Kobe's 5.


Why not?

[kennethgriffin]

Tim Donaghy literally came out and confessed that he and other officials fabricated game six of the Kings series in 2002 so that they could make money. That ring does not count. Period.



game 1 lakers win = 22-17 free throws ( lakers minor advantag )
game 2 kings win = 25-38 free throws ( kings major advantage )
game 3 kings win = 15-35 free throws ( kings major advantage )
game 4 lakers win = 27-26 free throws ( lakers minor advantage )
game 5 kings win = 23-33 free throws ( kings major advantage )
game 6 lakers win = 40-25 free throws ( lakers major advantage )
game 7 lakers win = 33-30 free throws ( lakers minor advantage )

overall free throws = lakers 185 - kings 204




in the 3 games the kings won their combined free throw advantage was 14.3 + per game

in the 4 games the lakers won their combined free throw advantage was 6.0 + per game

possible rigged wins = 1 for lakers - 3 for kings


evenly reffed game 7 and choked it away on the line and from distance. losing in O.T








i agree the series was tampered with. but both teams got an unfair advantage from the referees. and it shows the kings needed it more than LA

[KG215]

bynum averaged 6ppg for both titles

odom never made an allstar team

gasol is 0-16 as leader without kobe in the playoffs


without kobe odom is a crackhead that cant stay in the nba. bynum is trash that got shat out the league at 25 years old. gasol quit the series vs cleveland with a thigh bruise


gasols only playoff win without kobe came on the backs of rose/butler setting him up for wide open flat footed jumpers.



you call any of this "dominance"?
You are aware that these narratives you create for Kobe's former teammates to demean and belittle them is something you could do for pretty much every other HOFer and his supporting cast, right? You understand this isn't exclusive to Kobe, correct?

Just like the arbitrary, context-less (I know it's not a word) bullshit you're using to discredit Duncan's rings. You cherrypick whatever stats and information fit your agenda, put your blinders on, and act like none of that can apply to Kobe or his rivals. Then, when someone else uses your same elementary school arguing tactics against you, you start moving the goalposts and making up bullshit excuses for Kobe.

[ApexPredator]

Duncan winning another ring coming off the bench when you're a Superstar being compared to MJ's 6th and Kobe's 5th does absolutely nothing for his legacy. If anything, it hinders it. Just like how Parker and Kawhi won Finals MVP over him. Now he'll be coming off the bench.

Don't know why you're trying to compare Timmy to Manu and Walton. Get your facts straight. Manu was never on Duncan's level. He thrives off the bench. Walton was injury prone.

It doesn't hinder it, it just doesn't do enough to push him above MJ (he is already above Kobe). Duncan gracefully adapting his game and helping a team win a championship is easily better than failing to win. Manu's and Walton's count as well, but just as a fraction.

[ApexPredator]

Duncan's 5 don't even equals Kobe's 5.

Yes, they're greater. 3 FMVPs! :rockon:

[ApexPredator]

2014 - 15/9/2 ( with HOF Parker/Ginobili and FMVP Leonard ) 3rd man


What a troll. 15/10 from Duncan was clearly making him the 2nd man on that team behind Leonard.

[Lebron23]

No Finals MVP = No Care.

Jordan is 6/6 Finals MVP while Duncan is 3/6 in Finals MVP.

[kennethgriffin]

No Finals MVP = No Care.

Jordan is 6/6 Finals MVP while Duncan is 3/6 in Finals MVP.

so...

this is the real all time leaders in titles

#1 jordan 6
#2 magic 3
#2 shaq 3
#2 duncan 3
#5 kobe 2
#5 bird 2
#5 hakeem 2
#5 lebron 2



so kobe is top 5 all time?

[red1]

http://28.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lwvmunNzox1qjkukyo1_500.gif

[Prometheus]

so...

this is the real all time leaders in titles

#1 jordan 6
#2 magic 3
#2 shaq 3
#2 duncan 3
#5 kobe 2
#5 bird 2
#5 hakeem 2
#5 lebron 2



so kobe is top 5 all time?

When you have a tie, you have to account for all possible slots. Also, Kareem has 2. So then you get

1. Jordan (6)
2,3,4. Magic (3)
2,3,4. Shaq (3)
2,3,4. Duncan (3)
5,6,7,8,9. Kobe (2)
5,6,7,8,9. Kareem (2)
5,6,7,8,9. Hakeem (2)
5,6,7,8,9. Bird (2)
5,6,7,8,9. LeBron (2)

So Jordan = GOAT

Magic, Shaq, Duncan = 2nd tier

Kobe, LeBron, Hakeem, Bird, Kareem = 3rd tier

crazy how it's actually somewhat legit when you do it this way. obviously we're missing russel and wilt because the award didn't exist, and kareem seems too low, but still.

[kennethgriffin]

When you have a tie, you have to account for all possible slots. Also, Kareem has 2. So then you get

1. Jordan (6)
2,3,4. Magic (3)
2,3,4. Shaq (3)
2,3,4. Duncan (3)
5,6,7,8,9. Kobe (2)
5,6,7,8,9. Kareem (2)
5,6,7,8,9. Hakeem (2)
5,6,7,8,9. Bird (2)
5,6,7,8,9. LeBron (2)

So Jordan = GOAT

Magic, Shaq, Duncan = 2nd tier

Kobe, LeBron, Hakeem, Bird, Kareem = 3rd tier

crazy how it's actually somewhat legit when you do it this way. obviously we're missing russel and wilt because the award didn't exist, and kareem seems too low, but still.

i guess that would be right if all we counted was finals mvps

however... 90% of the time a team has won with 2 guys leading the way

the rare times a finals mvp didnt win with another top 50 player all time was

kobe bryant (TWICE )
hakeem olajuwon
rick barry
bill walton
dennis johnson



so we have to give these guys a little extra credit



or are we being delusional assholes entirely?

[ShawkFactory]

i guess that would be right if all we counted was finals mvps

however... 90% of the time a team has won with 2 guys leading the way

the rare times a finals mvp didnt win with another top 50 player all time was

kobe bryant (TWICE )
hakeem olajuwon
rick barry
bill walton
dennis johnson



so we have to give these guys a little extra credit



or are we being delusional assholes entirely?
We?

[KG215]

i guess that would be right if all we counted was finals mvps

however... 90% of the time a team has won with 2 guys leading the way

the rare times a finals mvp didnt win with another top 50 player all time was

kobe bryant (TWICE )
hakeem olajuwon
rick barry
bill walton
dennis johnson



so we have to give these guys a little extra credit



or are we being delusional assholes entirely?
What other contender in 2009 and 2010 had a better second banana/#2 than Pau Gasol? And it's not like the Lakers 3-6 or 3-7 players were slouches compared to the 3-6/7 players on other contenders, either. Good for Kobe for winning two rings without another top 50 all-time teammate, but if you don't just completely and stupidly ignore context, then Kobe doesn't deserve "extra credit" for his 2009 and 2010 rings.

Never mind you just automatically exclude every other #1 option that led his team to a championship if they had a player generally considered a top 50 or so player all-time, regardless of what point that player was at during that point in their careers. For instance, 2011 Dirk leading that Mavs team to a championship was more impressive than Kobe's 2009 or 2010 rings in my opinion, but by your dumbass criteria since he had way, way past his prime, near retirement Jason Kidd on his team he doesn't get "extra credit".

[Lebron23]

When you have a tie, you have to account for all possible slots. Also, Kareem has 2. So then you get

1. Jordan (6)
2,3,4. Magic (3)
2,3,4. Shaq (3)
2,3,4. Duncan (3)
5,6,7,8,9. Kobe (2)
5,6,7,8,9. Kareem (2)
5,6,7,8,9. Hakeem (2)
5,6,7,8,9. Bird (2)
5,6,7,8,9. LeBron (2)

So Jordan = GOAT

Magic, Shaq, Duncan = 2nd tier

Kobe, LeBron, Hakeem, Bird, Kareem = 3rd tier

crazy how it's actually somewhat legit when you do it this way. obviously we're missing russel and wilt because the award didn't exist, and kareem seems too low, but still.


Looking at those lists only a few NBA players have 3 or more Finals MVP.

[kennethgriffin]

Looking at those lists only a few NBA players have 3 or more Finals MVP.


i know right.. its almost as if theres more to the game of basketball


http://www.bilaterals.org/IMG/jpg/-83.jpg

[Prometheus]

i know right.. its almost as if theres more to the game of basketball


http://www.bilaterals.org/IMG/jpg/-83.jpg

:lol

I laughed out loud at this one

[24-Inch_Chrome]

Kenneth's first good post. :applause:

Only took 6 years.

[Springsteen]

http://i.a.cnn.net/si/2007/writers/steve_aschburner/10/30/duncan.kareem/p1.td.jpg

[rmt]

Never mind you just automatically exclude every other #1 option that led his team to a championship if they had a player generally considered a top 50 or so player all-time, regardless of what point that player was at during that point in their careers. For instance, 2011 Dirk leading that Mavs team to a championship was more impressive than Kobe's 2009 or 2010 rings in my opinion, but by your dumbass criteria since he had way, way past his prime, near retirement Jason Kidd on his team he doesn't get "extra credit".

Same way he does a 38 year old DRob or a 20 year old Parker - he says they are HOFs or Top 50 players - even though they weren't playing like that for a particular championship.

[KG215]

Same way he does a 38 year old DRob or a 20 year old Parker - he says they are HOFs or Top 50 players - even though they weren't playing like that for a particular championship.
Yeah, and I'm sure there are other championships where Pau Gasol, someone not generally considered a top 50 player, played at a higher level in 2009 and 2010 than a player generally considered a top 50 player all-time played at in a given championship season.

Of course in order for Griff (and there's other Kobe fanboys guilty of doing this, too) to understand that, it'd mean he's capable of critical thinking and digging below the surface. Two things his brain apparently cannot handle.

[ShawkFactory]

What other contender in 2009 and 2010 had a better second banana/#2 than Pau Gasol? And it's not like the Lakers 3-6 or 3-7 players were slouches compared to the 3-6/7 players on other contenders, either. Good for Kobe for winning two rings without another top 50 all-time teammate, but if you don't just completely and stupidly ignore context, then Kobe doesn't deserve "extra credit" for his 2009 and 2010 rings.

Never mind you just automatically exclude every other #1 option that led his team to a championship if they had a player generally considered a top 50 or so player all-time, regardless of what point that player was at during that point in their careers. For instance, 2011 Dirk leading that Mavs team to a championship was more impressive than Kobe's 2009 or 2010 rings in my opinion, but by your dumbass criteria since he had way, way past his prime, near retirement Jason Kidd on his team he doesn't get "extra credit".You seem too knowledgeable and well adjusted to type this much in this thread. You HAVE to know that you aren't going to get an actual intelligent response..

[SouBeachTalents]

i say they dont equate

duncans rings

Duncan: (P/R/A)
1999 - 23/11/2 ( With HOF Robinson ) + lockout
2003 - 24/15/5 ( with HOF Robinspn/Parker )
2005 - 23/12/2 ( with HOF Parker/Ginobili )
2007 - 22/11/3 ( with HOF Parker/Ginobili )
2014 - 15/9/2 ( with HOF Parker/Ginobili and FMVP Leonard ) 3rd man

vs

Kobe: (P/R/A)
2000 - 21/5/5 ( with HOF Shaq )
2001 - 29/7/6 ( with HOF shaq )
2002 - 27/6/5 ( with HOF shaq )
2009 - 30/5/5 ( with HOF pau )
2010 - 30/6/5 ( with HOF pau )

So '03 Robinson/Parker > '00 Shaq? Dat context

[Real14]

Looking at those lists only a few NBA players have 3 or more Finals MVP.
Looking at that list bron has the most asterisks to his career.

[SouBeachTalents]

Looking at that list bron has the most asterisks to his career.

And looking at the list of NBA champions the Knicks haven't won one in over 40 years

[Timmy D for MVP]

because marc gasol and lamarcus aldridge wanna ring chase with the spurs apparently

and no way theyel come off the bench for a 40 year old

Oh so somehow the Spurs will max Kawhi, and fit two more max players along with resigning Duncan?

Well shit sign me up for that! :banana:

[KG215]

You seem too knowledgeable and well adjusted to type this much in this thread. You HAVE to know that you aren't going to get an actual intelligent response..
Or a response at all. Griff seems to be ignoring me these days.

[ISHGoat]

Dont waste your time responding to OP guys, just reply with copy pastes or smily faces

[KG215]

So '03 Robinson/Parker > '00 Shaq? Dat context
Well, you are talking to a poster whose logic says way, way past his prime and near retirement 2011 Jason Kidd, way, way past his prime and near retirement 2003 David Robinson, and 20 year old 2003 Tony Parker are > 2009 and 2010 Gasol because Kidd, Robinson, and Parker are top 50 all-time...even though Parker isn't top 50 all-time. But for some reason Griff counts him when trying to demean Duncan's titles but Pau, who's also a non-top 50 all-time HOFer, means Kobe deserves extra credit for his 2009 and 2010 titles.

Again, Griff doesn't deal with context, sound logic, and below the surface information. He finds the most simplistic, elementary ways to make his case and sticks with them....over and over and over and over.

[ApexPredator]

Well, you are talking to a poster whose logic says way, way past his prime and near retirement 2011 Jason Kidd, way, way past his prime and near retirement 2003 David Robinson, and 20 year old 2003 Tony Parker are > 2009 and 2010 Gasol because Kidd, Robinson, and Parker are top 50 all-time...even though Parker isn't top 50 all-time. But for some reason Griff counts him when trying to demean Duncan's titles but Pau, who's also a non-top 50 all-time HOFer, means Kobe deserves extra credit for his 2009 and 2010 titles.

Again, Griff doesn't deal with context, sound logic, and below the surface information. He finds the most simplistic, elementary ways to make his case and sticks with them....over and over and over and over.
:applause:

[Ne 1]

http://28.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lwvmunNzox1qjkukyo1_500.gif

I remember this game. Childs sucker punched Kobe and then ran away like a little bitch...Kobe ate those weak hits, got right up in Childs grill, swung back and that's when Childs ran backwards and hides behind his teammates like a pu$$y. :roll: