Griffin's Postseason Numbers were 2003 Duncan-esque

[ninephive]

Tim Duncan 2003 Postseason:
24.7 PPG, 15.4 RPG, 5.3 APG, 3.3 BPG, 0.6 SPG, on 52.9% shooting.

Blake Griffin 2015 Postseason:
25.5 PPG, 12.7 RPG, 6.1 APG, 1.0 BPG, 1.0 SPG, on 51.1% shooting.

Duncan's is obviously more impressive because he did it through the Finals, but Blake had a postseason for the ages.

[Bernkastel]

I'll take note when he wins a chip.

[ISHGoat]

Just the basic stats are very misleading, Duncan's 03 run was goat caliber and he dominated the game on both sides

Just scroll a bit further down and view the playoff advanced stats.

Duncan in 03:
.279 ws48
11.6 BPM
2.6 VORP

Griffin this year:
.179 ws48
6.4 bpm
1.2 VORP

You could argue that duncan had almost twice the impact griffin had

[kennethgriffin]

2nd round exit = post season for the ages?

[Ancient Legend]

Yup, that's why numbers lie. In terms of impact, Duncan was/is way ahead.

[ApexPredator]

Tim Duncan 2003 Postseason:
24.7 PPG, 15.4 RPG, 5.3 APG, 3.3 BPG, 0.6 SPG, on 52.9% shooting.

Blake Griffin 2015 Postseason:
25.5 PPG, 12.7 RPG, 6.1 APG, 1.0 BPG, 1.0 SPG, on 51.1% shooting.

Duncan's is obviously more impressive because he did it through the Finals, but Blake had a postseason for the ages.

This is a perfect example of stats not telling the whole story. Also, 0.4 more points, 0.8 more assists, and 0.4 more steals really don't compensate for 2.7 less rebounds and 2.3 less blocks.

[scm5]

Tim Duncan 2003 Postseason:
24.7 PPG, 15.4 RPG, 5.3 APG, 3.3 BPG, 0.6 SPG, on 52.9% shooting.

Blake Griffin 2015 Postseason:
25.5 PPG, 12.7 RPG, 6.1 APG, 1.0 BPG, 1.0 SPG, on 51.1% shooting.

Duncan's is obviously more impressive because he did it through the Finals, but Blake had a postseason for the ages.

TD also actually played defense. Blake looked checked out on that end for long stretches.

[thefatmiral]

griffin also singlehandedly lost them some games. remember when he fumbled the ball out of bounds against the spurs to let them comeback to win. good thing people are not going to look back at these stats years later.

[ninephive]

Just the basic stats are very misleading, Duncan's 03 run was goat caliber and he dominated the game on both sides
I agree and understand that Griffin's defensive impact was significantly less. But Griffin had an amazing postseason, that's all I'm saying.

[ISHGoat]

I agree and understand that Griffin's defensive impact was significantly less. But Griffin had an amazing postseason, that's all I'm saying.

Yes he had a statistically great post season, but you are doing Duncan a great disservice by comparing this flopping bitch to a legit top 5 GOAT candidate's most iconic playoff run.

[DFish24]

Like I was saying, Griffin played at a level in these playoffs that KG simply never reached.

[UK2K]

Just the basic stats are very misleading, Duncan's 03 run was goat caliber and he dominated the game on both sides

Just scroll a bit further down and view the playoff advanced stats.

Duncan in 03:
.279 ws48
11.6 BPM
2.6 VORP

Griffin this year:
.179 ws48
6.4 bpm
1.2 VORP

You could argue that duncan had twice the impact griffin had
http://www.silverdoctors.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/bitcoin-gone.jpg

[ninephive]

Yes he had a statistically great post season, but you are doing Duncan a great disservice by comparing this flopping bitch to a legit top 5 GOAT candidate's most iconic playoff run.
I agree, but people are saying Chris Paul didn't have the help he needed again. He had plenty of help.

[ISHGoat]

I agree, but people are saying Chris Paul didn't have the help he needed again. He had plenty of help.

:cheers:

CP3 had plenty of help, and the core of cp3 + griffin + DJ is indeed formidable. I think it is clear to most people that the role players let them down in the last 3 games, combined with seemingly a lack of urgency.

[greatest-ever]

Yeah except Duncan was playing elite defense throughout the playoffs. Blake ranged anywhere from good to below average at defense.

[greatest-ever]

Like I was saying, Griffin played at a level in these playoffs that KG simply never reached.
I guess you can say that if defense isn't counted.

[ninephive]

Yes he had a statistically great post season, but you are doing Duncan a great disservice by comparing this flopping bitch to a legit top 5 GOAT candidate's most iconic playoff run.
I agree and am certainly not trying to say that Griffin was as good. I was there when the streamers came down in '03, so I saw Duncan's near-quadruple-double in G6 live. I was just surprised to see Blake's RAW numbers at or above Duncan's in several categories.

[scm5]

Like I was saying, Griffin played at a level in these playoffs that KG simply never reached.

2002-03: 27/16/5 on 51% and 1.7bpg 1.7bpg but only 6 games
2003-04: 24/15/5 on 45% and 1.3spg 2.3bpg through 18 games

KG's like 5 levels above Blake defensively as well.

[SCdac]

that shot blocking tho :applause: ... still holds the record for most blocks in a Finals series (32 blocks in 6 games; 5.3 blocks per game)

and Tony Parker was just a sophomore in the league with a faulty jumper, averaging only 3.5 assists in the post season, compared to Duncan who lead the Spurs in assists, scoring, rebounding, shotblocking, and FTA's. Duncan at the time was routinely doubled and tripled and was a master at finding the right man out of a post-up.

For perspective on the tail end of that championship run, Tony Parker averaged only 29 mpg / 7 ppg / .26 FG% in the last 3 games of the Finals, while the first back-to-back MVP since Jordan in Tim Duncan averaged 44 mpg / 24 ppg / 18 rpg / 5 apg / 6 bpg / .48 FG% and nearly recorded a quadruple-double in the final game. For a big man like Duncan to play virtually the whole game (had a knack for smart defense and staying out of foul trouble) was huge. Duncan was a beast

Griffin and CP3 is more comparable to prime Amare and Nash, imo.

[ISHGoat]

that shot blocking tho :applause: ... still holds the record for most blocks in a Finals series (32 blocks in 6 games; 5.3 blocks per game)

and Tony Parker was just a sophomore in the league with a faulty jumper, averaging only 3.5 assists in the post season, compared to Duncan who lead the Spurs in assists, scoring, rebounding, shotblocking, and FTA's. Duncan at the time was routinely doubled and tripled and was a master at finding the right man out of a post-up.

For perspective on the tail end of that championship run, Tony Parker averaged only 29 mpg / 7 ppg / .26 FG% in the last 3 games of the Finals, while the first back-to-back MVP since Jordan in Tim Duncan averaged 44 mpg / 24 ppg / 18 rpg / 5 apg / 6 bpg / .48 FG% and nearly recorded a quadruple-double in the final game. For a big man like Duncan to play virtually the whole game (had a knack for smart defense and staying out of foul trouble) was huge. Duncan was a beast

Griffin and CP3 is more comparable to prime Amare and Nash, imo.

Very accurate comparison :applause:

[CJ Mustard]

Like I was saying, Griffin played at a level in these playoffs that KG simply never reached.
You should be shot, honestly. I would expect nothing less from a Derek Fisher fan though.

[DonDadda59]

TD also actually played defense. Blake looked checked out on that end for long stretches.

This. If Ginger had been half the defensive presence prime (or even old) Duncan was, they would've won in 5.

[SCdac]

Very accurate comparison :applause:

Griffin's a much better passer and playmaker than Amare I'll readily admit, but in terms of the duo and combination of production it's more comparable i think. Griffin, like Amare, is not an elite defender in the tier of Tim Duncan

[Genaro]

Numbers lie. The eye test never fails.
And even by the numbers we can tell how much better Duncan was on the defensive end. Offensively Griffin was on pair with Duncan but he was also playing in a faster paced league and team.

[Optimus Prime]

Postseason numbers that actually matter!

Duncan: 5 rings, 3x FMVP

Griffin: 50 annoying Kia commercials, gone fishin' at conference finals time

[ShawkFactory]

You should be shot, honestly. I would expect nothing less from a Derek Fisher fan though.
Are there enough of them for a group stereotype?

[thejesu]

Postseason numbers that actually matter!

Duncan: 5 rings, 3x FMVP

Griffin: 50 annoying Kia commercials, gone fishin' at conference finals time


Hahahaha, good point, bro.

[ninephive]

that shot blocking tho :applause: ... still holds the record for most blocks in a Finals series (32 blocks in 6 games; 5.3 blocks per game)

and Tony Parker was just a sophomore in the league with a faulty jumper, averaging only 3.5 assists in the post season, compared to Duncan who lead the Spurs in assists, scoring, rebounding, shotblocking, and FTA's. Duncan at the time was routinely doubled and tripled and was a master at finding the right man out of a post-up.

For perspective on the tail end of that championship run, Tony Parker averaged only 29 mpg / 7 ppg / .26 FG% in the last 3 games of the Finals, while the first back-to-back MVP since Jordan in Tim Duncan averaged 44 mpg / 24 ppg / 18 rpg / 5 apg / 6 bpg / .48 FG% and nearly recorded a quadruple-double in the final game. For a big man like Duncan to play virtually the whole game (had a knack for smart defense and staying out of foul trouble) was huge. Duncan was a beast

Griffin and CP3 is more comparable to prime Amare and Nash, imo.
Yah but he averaged double that for the Finals (at 21 yrs old) and more than double that for the playoffs as a whole. Why do you always cherry-pick a few games? Like why wouldn't you include game 3 of the Finals where he went for 26/6 (4 for 6 from downtown) or game 2 when he went for 21/5 on 53%? Oh, right, because those don't make him look as bad.

I could say, "hey, Duncan only averaged 10 PPG on 39% shooting and played terrible defense (got his soul owned by Zach Randolph) in the last 3 games of the 2011 playoffs (while being a -19 in +/-)," but who cares? That's a cherry-picked stat.

Or Duncan only averaged 12.7 PPG and 8.5 RPG on 48% shooting in the last 3 games of the 2014 Finals. So what? He averaged 19.5 PPG & 12.5 RPG on 67% shooting in the first 2 games. That's why you look at the whole series.

[SCdac]

Yah but he averaged double that for the Finals (at 21 yrs old) and more than double that for the playoffs as a whole. Why do you always cherry-pick a few games? Like why wouldn't you include game 3 of the Finals where he went for 26/6 (4 for 6 from downtown) or game 2 when he went for 21/5 on 53%? Oh, right, because those don't make him look as bad.

it's just about context and perspective, don't get bent out of shape... those were the last 3 games of NBA post-season and pressure ramps up at the end of a series (weren't 3 separate, randomly picked games)... Spurs needed Parker then, and he had big moments for sure, but they obviously needed their MVP and team leader much more. Duncan's production in comparison to Griffin is alot different despite numbers being similar.

[SCdac]

Yah but he averaged double that for the Finals (at 21 yrs old) and more than double that for the playoffs as a whole. Why do you always cherry-pick a few games? Like why wouldn't you include game 3 of the Finals where he went for 26/6 (4 for 6 from downtown) or game 2 when he went for 21/5 on 53%? Oh, right, because those don't make him look as bad.

I could say, "hey, Duncan only averaged 10 PPG on 39% shooting and played terrible defense (got his soul owned by Zach Randolph) in the last 3 games of the 2011 playoffs (while being a -19 in +/-)," but who cares? That's a cherry-picked stat.

Or Duncan only averaged 12.7 PPG and 8.5 RPG on 48% shooting in the last 3 games of the 2014 Finals. So what? He averaged 19.5 PPG & 12.5 RPG on 67% shooting in the first 2 games. That's why you look at the whole series.

13 ppg & 9 rpg in 31 mpg for a 38 year old player is nothing to scoff at though ... you're misconstruing why I picked the last few games of a series (2003 Finals - in particular), vs. any few games from any series of any year.

[rmt]

Tim Duncan 2003 Postseason:
24.7 PPG, 15.4 RPG, 5.3 APG, 3.3 BPG, 0.6 SPG, on 52.9% shooting.

Blake Griffin 2015 Postseason:
25.5 PPG, 12.7 RPG, 6.1 APG, 1.0 BPG, 1.0 SPG, on 51.1% shooting.

Duncan's is obviously more impressive because he did it through the Finals, but Blake had a postseason for the ages.

I wonder why a Spur fan would be comparing this 2-round collapse to an all-time great playoff run. I hope you'll see the difference between them when compared to their team mates - take a look at the load Duncan carried compared to Griffin.

2003 Postseason:
Duncan 28.4 PER 57.7 TS% 5.9 WS 11.6 BPM
Parker 14.7 pts / 2.8 rebs / 3.5 asst 40.3% 11.9 PER 46.8 TS% 1.1 WS -1.8 BPM
SJax 12.8 pts / 4.1 rebs / 2.7 asst 41.4% 12 PER 52.9 TS% 1.3 WS 1.6 BPM
Manu 9.4 pts / 3.8 rebs / 2.9 asst 38.6% 15 PER 52.2 TS% 2.1 WS 4.7 BPM

2015 Post season:
Griffin 24.7 PER 55.7 TS% 2.1 WS 6.4 BPM
Paul 22.1 pts / 4.4 rebs / 8.8 asst 50.3% 25.6 PER 62.7 TS% 2.3 WS 4.3 BPM
Jordan 13.1 pts / 13.4 rebs / 2.4 asst 71.6% 20.7 PER 61 TS% 1.9 WS 7.6 BPM
Reddick 14.9 pts / 2.1 rebs / 1.7 asst 43.5% .5 WS -.2 BPM
Crawford 12.7 pts / 2.1 rebs / 1.9 asst 36% -.02 WS -4.1 BPM

[24-Inch_Chrome]

Like I was saying, Griffin played at a level in these playoffs that KG simply never reached.

Kobe stans just aren't smart.

[Legends66NBA7]

I wonder why a Spur fan would be comparing this 2-round collapse to an all-time great playoff run.

This thread has more to do with Chris Paul than Blake Griffin and Tim Duncan.

[warriorfan]

There is something we like to call "Defense".



:hammerhead: :hammerhead: :hammerhead:

[Anaximandro1]

Duncan's is obviously more impressive because he did it through the Finals, but Blake had a postseason for the ages.

apples to oranges

It was a totally different league back then


2003 Spurs Pace Factor -> 91.0 / Points Per Game -> 94.8

2015 Clippers Pace Factor -> 98.7 / Points Per Game -> 107.8


---------------------------------------------------

apples to apples


2003 Duncan BPM 11.6 / WS48 .279 / PER 28.4

2015 Duncan BPM 7.7 / WS48 .230 / PER 24.1

2015 Griffin BPM 6.4 / WS48 .179 / PER 24.7

[Prime_Shaq]

Duncan won though.

[ninephive]

My bad guys, I didn't think I titled this thread, "Griffin's Postseason was better than Duncan's in 2003."

[ninephive]

Duncan won though.
Thanks for reminding me of what I wrote in the first post.

[ninephive]

apples to oranges

It was a totally different league back then


2003 Spurs Pace Factor -> 91.0 / Points Per Game -> 94.8

2015 Clippers Pace Factor -> 98.7 / Points Per Game -> 107.8


---------------------------------------------------

apples to apples


2003 Duncan BPM 11.6 / WS48 .279 / PER 28.4

2015 Duncan BPM 7.7 / WS48 .230 / PER 24.1

2015 Griffin BPM 6.4 / WS48 .179 / PER 24.7
Thanks for reminding me that certain advanced stats were not as comparable as the raw stats.

[ninephive]

There is something we like to call "Defense".



:hammerhead: :hammerhead: :hammerhead:
Thanks for reminding me that Duncan had a greater defensive impact because I must have missed it sitting in the seats at the 2003 Finals.

[ninephive]

I wonder why a Spur fan would be comparing this 2-round collapse to an all-time great playoff run. I hope you'll see the difference between them when compared to their team mates - take a look at the load Duncan carried compared to Griffin.

2003 Postseason:
Duncan 28.4 PER 57.7 TS% 5.9 WS 11.6 BPM
Parker 14.7 pts / 2.8 rebs / 3.5 asst 40.3% 11.9 PER 46.8 TS% 1.1 WS -1.8 BPM
SJax 12.8 pts / 4.1 rebs / 2.7 asst 41.4% 12 PER 52.9 TS% 1.3 WS 1.6 BPM
Manu 9.4 pts / 3.8 rebs / 2.9 asst 38.6% 15 PER 52.2 TS% 2.1 WS 4.7 BPM

2015 Post season:
Griffin 24.7 PER 55.7 TS% 2.1 WS 6.4 BPM
Paul 22.1 pts / 4.4 rebs / 8.8 asst 50.3% 25.6 PER 62.7 TS% 2.3 WS 4.3 BPM
Jordan 13.1 pts / 13.4 rebs / 2.4 asst 71.6% 20.7 PER 61 TS% 1.9 WS 7.6 BPM
Reddick 14.9 pts / 2.1 rebs / 1.7 asst 43.5% .5 WS -.2 BPM
Crawford 12.7 pts / 2.1 rebs / 1.9 asst 36% -.02 WS -4.1 BPM
Thanks for reminding me that Duncan's supporting cast wasn't as good as Blake's, because that's the point I was making apparently.

[Anaximandro1]

It's much easier to score in today's NBA, tbh


2003 Duncan Offensive Rating --> 116

2014 Duncan Offensive Rating --> 120

2015 Duncan Offensive Rating --> 125

[ninephive]

13 ppg & 9 rpg in 31 mpg for a 38 year old player is nothing to scoff at though ... you're misconstruing why I picked the last few games of a series (2003 Finals - in particular), vs. any few games from any series of any year.
Thanks for reminding me that Duncan gets a pass because he was 38, but Parker doesn't because he was 21 (an age Duncan never experienced in the NBA).

[Smoke117]

http://broscience.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/snake-plissken-cool.gif

It's pathetic how little defense is respected by most fans.

[Jameerthefear]

OP is just saying BG had a good postseason. Jesus you Duncan vampires are sensitive.

[DFish24]

2003 Duncan>2015 Griffin>2004 Garnett

[24-Inch_Chrome]

2003 Duncan>2015 Griffin>2004 Garnett

2003 Duncan > 2004 Garnett >>>>>>> 2015 Griffin is a little closer.

[Smoke117]

2003 Duncan > 2004 Garnett >>>>>>> 2015 Griffin is a little closer.

Indeed. But look who you responded to? He's an idiot. Not even worth the time.

[DFish24]

2003 Duncan > 2004 Garnett >>>>>>> 2015 Griffin is a little closer.

:no:

'03 Duncan 25/15/5 on 52%FG:eek: >>>>>15' Griffin 26/13/6 on 51%FG:pimp: >>>>'04 Garnett 24/14/5 on 45%FG:lol

[MJistheGOAT]

:no:

'03 Duncan 25/15/5 on 52%FG:eek: >>>>>15' Griffin 26/13/6 on 51%FG:pimp: >>>>'04 Garnett 24/14/5 on 45%FG:lol

DEFENSE, LEADERSHIP

/thread

[rmt]

Thanks for reminding me that Duncan gets a pass because he was 38, but Parker doesn't because he was 21 (an age Duncan never experienced in the NBA).

I could have sworn Duncan was 21 years old in November 1997. That he was 21 years old all the way through April 24, 1998 and that he was Rookie of the Month every month of the 1997-98 year, Rookie of the Year, All Rookie First Team, All-NBA 1st team and All-Defensive 2nd team.

What Duncan is doing at age 39 is just as amazing as what he did at 21. You don't have to get defensive about Parker and it's only Kobe/Lebron stans who should be pitting/comparing one against the other because they're jealous of Spurs' success/want to downplay TD/prop up their hero. Each is a blessing to the other.


My bad guys, I didn't think I titled this thread, "Griffin's Postseason was better than Duncan's in 2003."

You deserve all the needling for implying that Griffin's 2015 post-season was on the same level as Duncan's 2003.