Shabazz Muhammad had a 20 PER at 22 years old: Wiggins didn't break 15

[PleezeBelieve]

Its clear Muhammad was the better player between the two last season.

But my question is -- how is such a stat like this even possible when Wiggins is the one projected by ISH to be a future superstar while no one talks or cares about Shabazz.

What's going on here?

[ClipperRevival]

More of the load was put on Wiggins and he simply lacked the experience to do so at the NBA level. He just had a higher usage rate when he wasn't ready to lead. But what we saw was glimpses of greatness: the 30+ point games and dominant defensive possibilities.

Shabazz is a good looking guy also though.

[PleezeBelieve]

More of the load was put on Wiggins and he simply lacked the experience to do so at the NBA level. He just had a higher usage rate when he wasn't ready to lead. But what we saw was glimpses of greatness: the 30+ point games and dominant defensive possibilities.

Shabazz is a good looking guy also though.
When you play 40 minutes a game, every player will have glimpses.

And most of his "glimpses" came in blowouts.

Try again...

[Sportal]

People forget that Shabazz was going to be a high pick if he had a successful college career. He was a #1 HS player coming into college, but drama just followed the kid. He could turn out better than all the Wolves' #1 picks...you just never know. I like him, since he's left college he's worked hard.

[ClipperRevival]

When you play 40 minutes a game, every player will have glimpses.

And most of his "glimpses" came in blowouts.

Try again...

I think I remember you now. You are the guy that made several threads about how overrated he is.

[ClipperRevival]

Before this year, Wiggins was a freshman at Kansas. And before that, he was playing HS ball. The guy is still a pup for basketball years. Basketball is a game of skill. Of course at the highest level, you need to be a certain height with a certain amount of athleticism but the rules still apply to Wiggins. Basketball takes time to improve upon your skills. If he works at it, he will get better. The real question is how much better. But you can't teach his height, length and athleticism.

[Legends66NBA7]

Shabazz Muhammad first season: 37 games played

Shabazz Muhammad second season: 38 games played


Andrew Wiggins first season: 82 games played

[kennethgriffin]

1. Michael Jordan* 28.60
2. George Mikan* 28.51
3. LeBron James 27.42
4. Shaquille O'Neal 26.13
5. Hakeem Olajuwon* 25.69
6. Chris Paul 25.13
7. Tim Duncan 24.58
8. Kevin Durant 24.35
9. Charles Barkley* 24.18
10. Dirk Nowitzki 23.97
11. Tracy McGrady 23.40
12. Dwight Howard 23.38
13. Dolph Schayes* 23.29
14. Jerry West* 23.06
15. David Robinson* 23.02
16. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar* 23.01
17. Magic Johnson* 22.95
18. Russell Westbrook 22.75
19. Wilt Chamberlain* 22.75
20. Dwyane Wade 22.70
21. Bob Pettit* 22.59
22. Kobe Bryant 22.40
23. Amar'e Stoudemire 22.08
24. Julius Erving* 22.05
25. Blake Griffin 21.96
26. Elgin Baylor* 21.83
27. Rick Barry* 21.81
28. Moses Malone* 21.57
29. Larry Bird* 21.41
30. Baron Davis 21.36
31. Allen Iverson 21.24
32. George Gervin* 21.16
33. Karl Malone* 21.12
34. Kevin Garnett 21.12
35. Oscar Robertson* 20.99
36. Bob Lanier* 20.81
37. Pau Gasol 20.72
38. George Yardley* 20.72
39. Cliff Hagan* 20.62
40. James Harden 20.61
41. Shawn Kemp 20.55
42. Gus Williams 20.37
43. Artis Gilmore* 20.36
44. Paul Arizin* 20.33
45. Dan Issel* 20.07
46. Carmelo Anthony 19.94
47. Alex English* 19.92
48. Walter Davis 19.91
49. John Stockton* 19.84
50. Walt Frazier* 19.84
51. Steve Nash 19.84
52. Isiah Thomas* 19.80
53. Manu Ginobili 19.79
54. Anfernee Hardaway 19.76
55. George McGinnis 19.73
56. Clyde Lovellette* 19.72
57. Clyde Drexler* 19.71
58. Patrick Ewing* 19.63
59. Reggie Miller* 19.55
60. Bill Russell* 19.40
61. Kevin McHale* 19.36
62. Adrian Dantley* 19.33
63. Billy Cunningham* 19.33
64. Alonzo Mourning* 19.18
65. Deron Williams 19.14
66. Chauncey Billups 19.11
67. Kevin Johnson 19.08
68. Elvin Hayes* 19.08
69. Larry Foust 19.08
70. Marques Johnson 19.06
71. Willie Wise 19.03
72. Marc Gasol 18.95
73. Roger Brown* 18.90
74. Chris Webber 18.87
75. Jimmy Jones 18.80
76. Derrick Rose 18.77
77. Brad Daugherty 18.73
78. Fred Brown 18.71
79. Dominique Wilkins* 18.71
80. Mack Calvin 18.67
81. Vince Carter 18.60
82. Bob McAdoo* 18.54
83. Zelmo Beaty 18.50
84. Mel Daniels* 18.48
85. Rajon Rondo 18.43
86. Chris Bosh 18.42
87. Rik Smits 18.40
88. Paul Millsap 18.38
89. Scottie Pippen* 18.35
90. James Worthy* 18.31
91. Kawhi Leonard 18.25
92. Red Robbins 18.19
93. Larry Nance 18.13
94. Terry Cummings 18.07
95. Andrew Bynum 18.02
96. Mark Aguirre 17.99
97. Dikembe Mutombo* 17.79
98. Willis Reed* 17.78
99. Tom Heinsohn* 17.65
100. Roy Hibbert 17.58
101. Zach Randolph 17.55
102. Paul Pierce 17.52
103. John Havlicek* 17.51
104. Sam Jones* 17.50
105. Josh Smith 17.39
106. Bob Cousy* 17.39
107. Carlos Boozer 17.36
108. Alvan Adams 17.33
109. Rod Strickland 17.23
110. Mark Price 17.17
111. Gail Goodrich* 17.17
112. Jason Kidd 17.10





i dunno about this PER thing

[Collie]

Shabazz had a 13 PER at 21 years old, 2 years older than Wiggins, who had a 14 PER.

[Legends66NBA7]

Shabazz had a 13 PER at 21 years old, 2 years older than Wiggins, who had a 14 PER.

And Wiggins played 45 more games on higher minutes.

[CarlosBoozer]

Dion sucks

[Marchesk]

1. Michael Jordan* 28.60
19. Wilt Chamberlain* 22.75[/SIZE]
i dunno about this PER thing

Yeah, maybe because Wilt had a 28 PER as a rookie while setting NBA records in scoring and rebounding. Not sure where you're getting the 22.75 from.

[noob cake]

Dion sucks

Dions sucks, but Wiggins sucks just as badly.

[FireMcFailPlease]

Trade Wiggins!

[JohnMax]

http://i.imgur.com/6dTbFPf.png

[24-Inch_Chrome]

Yeah, maybe because Wilt had a 28 PER as a rookie while setting NBA records in scoring and rebounding. Not sure where you're getting the 22.75 from.

Wilt's was actually 26.13. I have no idea where kenneth is getting his information from.

Here's the top-50 per basketball-reference.

http://i.imgur.com/IHftPTO.png

[TripleA]

So what if wiggins has 20 per next year is he still not good,

[noob cake]

So what if wiggins has 20 per next year is he still not good,

Let's wait until Wiggins puts up 20 PER (and no longer lead his team in raw negative plus/minus and negative adjusted plus/minus) before proclaiming his greatness.

[noob cake]

http://i.imgur.com/6dTbFPf.png

13.4 PER VS 13.97 PER. Wiggins slightly better based on PER.

Guess I'm wrong...but Barnes has never played starter minutes so we shall see when the Black Falcon is set free.

[TripleA]

thats fair but many young players rookies years were not that good like paul george or kobe and they improved a lot so i think people are thinking the same thing for wiggins.

[noob cake]

thats fair but many young players rookies years were not that good like paul george or kobe and they improved a lot so i think people are thinking the same thing for wiggins.

PG is the exception to the typical developmental curve. People love to cite him as an example that physical tools is more important than skill and finesse. You want to go through the draft list and list me the names of every highly athletic bust? (Note to Wiggystans, I'm not saying Wiggins is a bust bust aka Thabeet or Kwame, but I have been projecting him as a #1 pick bust for a while, kinda like how Bogut is a solid player but a bust for a #1 pick)

Rookie Bryant played 15 minutes off the bench. Wiggins had all the shots he wanted and pretty much lead the Wolves in minutes.

[TripleA]

yeah but at beginning of the year he was god awful player an d by the end he was pretty good.

[noob cake]

yeah but at beginning of the year he was god awful player an d by the end he was pretty good.

Awful into hot shooting near Christmas then into decent for rest of the year.

The reason why his PER, and most other pace, teammate adjusted advanced stats are low is because he doesn't put up efficient stats. In good games, he'll drop 20+ points on merely decent or worse efficiency. In bad games, he'll disappear and have no impact passing or rebounding the ball. His problem is that he can't rebound or pass at an decent level for a NBA SF, who is supposedly a superstar prospect.

[Droid101]

Wow, this is amazing, especially since it no longer matters who scores the most points in a game to win. It's all based on which team has the highest PER.

Great news for Shabazz.

[24-Inch_Chrome]

Wow, this is amazing, especially since it no longer matters who scores the most points in a game to win. It's all based on which team has the highest PER.

Great news for Shabazz.

:oldlol:

Wiggins is obsolete. Scoring well without a high PER is now meaningless!

[yeaaaman]

Wow, this is amazing, especially since it no longer matters who scores the most points in a game to win. It's all based on which team has the highest PER.

Great news for Shabazz.

I like this idea - don't even worry about the score. The team with the highest PER should be declared winner. This should be the future of basketball.

Actually, lets take it further. Players should only play 1 year. After their rookie season, their advanced stats should be crunched into a computer that will simulate their career trajectory and efficiency, and then a computer can simulate the full regular season and playoffs 1000 times and come to the determined winner each year and award that team the trophy.

[JtotheIzzo]

Wow, this is amazing, especially since it no longer matters who scores the most points in a game to win. It's all based on which team has the highest PER.

Great news for Shabazz.

Post of the year.

Face facts, Pleeze Believe's ISH PER is well into the single digits and he posts all the time.

You know your troll game is lacking when you cite a rookie's PER and real +/- and also when that rookie is on a bad team.

[PleezeBelieve]

So what if wiggins has 20 per next year is he still not good,
No chance he has a 20 PER next season

[04mzwach]

The reason Shabazz does so well on PER is because he's basically a SG/SF who can rebound better than a lot of big guys. Shabazz had been playing off the bench as well, while Wiggins has started the entire season. Shabazz is a great scorer for what he's shown and I'm as excited to see how good he'll be as I am with Wiggins and Towns. Shabazz gives it all when he's on the court, posting up, was starting to improve his three before he got the hand injury. Bazz is any team's dream 6th man coming in to get buckets. Bazz is a hustle player with more. Sometimes stats don't tell you everything, because you see that he's averaged 4 rebounds but usually guards and whatnot get the ones that just happen to land in their lap. No, he's going up for these rebounds that he's getting. It shows that's what he's doing when you look at the amount of offensive rebounds he gets with how many minutes he has actually gotten. He was really on his way to being the Most Improved Player of the Year but things got in the way. (injuries)

"Closed mouths don't get fed, and I'm gonna eat every time I get on the court."

---Shabazz Muhammad

[JtotheIzzo]

No chance he has a 20 PER next season

this is why you are so stupid and likely the dumbest guy on this board.

Wiggins PER was below ten in the first half of the year, the fact he ended at 14 basically meant he was in the high teens in the second half of the year, thus making 20 not very unrealistic as he improves and the Wolves get better players around him.

In the last two months Wiggins was 2nd amongst all small forward in one on one and post up scoring.

https://twitter.com/SynergySST/status/593788141208608768/photo/1

He was also second in the entire NBA in FTA in the last two months of the season.

These are not things one regresses from, it isn't lucky shooting or being opportunistic, it is raw talent.

Kid is the real deal, just like Durant before, you are gonna get clowned.