I'm beating a dead horse, but the East this year has to be the worst conference ever

[1987_Lakers]

- 3 teams with non-winning records making the playoffs
- #1 seed Atlanta being complete pretenders
- Cavs easily taking the East despite K. Love being out
- Chicago proved to be total pretenders


I mean damn, I think I might be witnessing the worst conference of all time.

[bballnoob1192]

Lebron stays winning.

[keep-itreal]

need to apply asterisks everywhere this season

[tomtucker]

- 3 teams with non-winning records making the playoffs
- #1 seed Atlanta being complete pretenders
- Cavs easily taking the East despite K. Love being out
- Chicago proved to be total pretenders


I mean damn, I think I might be witnessing the worst conference of all time.

agree.....lets just hope the west wins

[SouBeachTalents]

You could argue pretty much any season from the East in the early 2000's as being worse than this years. And go check out some of the conferences in the mid to late '70's

[imnew09]

- 3 teams with non-winning records making the playoffs
- #1 seed Atlanta being complete pretenders
- Cavs easily taking the East despite K. Love being out
- Chicago proved to be total pretenders


I mean damn, I think I might be witnessing the worst conference of all time.

Adding to the list
- 4th seed Raptors got SWEPT
- Cavs injuries : K Love, Varejao, Irving

NCAA basketball was far more interesting this year than the East

[Cocaine80s]

Warriors competition this year:
Pelicans
Grizzlies (Fvcked by injuries)
Rockets (Dwight injured)

They got it pretty easy too

[livinglegend]

Adding to the list
- 4th seed Raptors got SWEPT
- Cavs injuries : K Love, Varejao, Irving

NCAA basketball was far more interesting this year than the East

And still, the best ratings came from East games. :applause: :applause:

[oarabbus]

Warriors competition this year:
Pelicans (finals team in the East)
Grizzlies (Fvcked by injuries) (finals team in the East)
Rockets (Dwight injured) (finals team in the east)



:eek: wow

[livinglegend]

- 3 teams with non-winning records making the playoffs
- #1 seed Atlanta being complete pretenders
- Cavs easily taking the East despite K. Love being out
- Chicago proved to be total pretenders


I mean damn, I think I might be witnessing the worst conference of all time.

Why are you being a p*ssy?
Just post your intention like a man.
Say '' if Lebron makes the finals this year, it won't mean anything. The east is weak. All I'm trying to do is to discredit Lebron.''

[inclinerator]

what happens if the east beats the west this year in the finals

[oh the horror]

need to apply asterisks everywhere this season




Never bought into that narrative. They beat who's in front of them and that's that.


However it doesn't change the fact that the east is weak as shit.

[1987_Lakers]

Why are you being a p*ssy?
Just post your intention like a man.
Say '' if Lebron makes the finals this year, it won't mean anything. The east is weak. All I'm trying to do is to discredit Lebron.''

If you follow my previous posts here you would know that I have great admiration/respect for LeBron. I even made a thread a couple of months ago saying LeBron might finish top 4 all time.

[Magic 32]

Sorry, but 2007 is far worse.

[oh the horror]

Warriors competition this year:
Pelicans
Grizzlies (Fvcked by injuries)
Rockets (Dwight injured)

They got it pretty easy too




Bro the Grizzlies with their roster right now would make the east finals. Stop.


I'd argue even Houston sans Dwight would make noise over there.



Pelicans could probably beat the fu*king Celtics and Brooklyn.

[livinglegend]

If you follow my previous posts here you would know that I have great admiration/respect for LeBron. I even made a thread a couple of months ago saying LeBron might finish top 4 all time.

In that case, 1980-1981 WC had 4 losing record teams making the playoffs.
I am not going to go more in details because I wasn't even born during that time.

[COnDEMnED]

what happens if the east beats the west this year in the finals
The Clippers won't be the most recent choke job of these playoffs.

[J Shuttlesworth]

85, you had two conferences with a 36 win team making the playoffs.

86, the Bulls made the playoffs winning 30 games. The Spurs made it winning 35 games.

88, Spurs got in winning 31 games.

So yeah, conferences have been much worse.

[coin24]

Needs to switch to top 16 teams ASAP.. These playoffs have been garbage..

I don't get how only the cavs can put together a decent team in the east. How are the rest so pathetic???!
Hawks were pretenders all year it was obvious, especially post all star, same with the Wizards.
The Bulls were just woeful

[CeltsGarlic]

One of the most fun playoffs in a while, but yall bunch of hating and spoiled ass kids, so no surprise. Appreciate what you get.

[1987_Lakers]

85, you had two conferences with a 36 win team making the playoffs.

86, the Bulls made the playoffs winning 30 games. The Spurs made it winning 35 games.

88, Spurs got in winning 31 games.

So yeah, conferences have been much worse.

This is pretty flawed. 16 teams made the playoffs with 23 teams in the league in that time so of course you will see teams with losing records like that in the playoffs.

[Cocaine80s]

Bro the Grizzlies with their roster right now would make the east finals. Stop.


I'd argue even Houston sans Dwight would make noise over there.



Pelicans could probably beat the fu*king Celtics and Brooklyn.
Houston without Dwight would lose to the Bulls

Grizzlies would probably make the ECF unless they face the Cavs

[ihoopallday]

Maybe Kobe should've went to the Bulls when he was threatening to leave LA. He'd have 10 rings by now since the East is so weak. :bowdown:
Seriously though, why don't all these superstars just join the east if it's so weak?

[bigkingsfan]

They're just making their opponent look weak, next.

[dunksby]

Why are you being a p*ssy?
Just post your intention like a man.
Say '' if Lebron makes the finals this year, it won't mean anything. The east is weak. All I'm trying to do is to discredit Lebron.''
The guy who bitched out a bet is calling someone else a ***** :roll: Your handle has practically been livingpussy since then, respect your betters.

In that case, 1980-1981 WC had 4 losing record teams making the playoffs.
I am not going to go more in details because I wasn't even born during that time.
You shouldn't because you are a dumbass, only two teams had losing records of 40-42 and they both upset their higher seeds and went through to the second round :oldlol: and guess what, both made it to WCF :roll:

[bdreason]

Early 2000's, when Kidd was taking a bunch of athletes to the Finals, was worse.

[livinglegend]

The guy who bitched out a bet is calling someone else a ***** :roll: Your handle has practically been livingpussy since then, respect your betters.

You shouldn't because you are a dumbass, only two teams had losing records of 40-42 and they both upset their higher seeds and went through to the second round :oldlol: and guess what, both made it to WCF :roll:

Still bringing that bet thing.
I won that thread. No one has answered my question as of now.

And you are so dumb that you don't even realise that you are making an argument for my case.
2 40-42 in conference finals?
One of OP's argument was this year's 1st seed Hawks are pretenders.
Thanks for showing him that in 80-81, both 1st and 2nd seed were pretenders. :roll: :roll: :roll:

[Dresta]

85, you had two conferences with a 36 win team making the playoffs.

86, the Bulls made the playoffs winning 30 games. The Spurs made it winning 35 games.

88, Spurs got in winning 31 games.

So yeah, conferences have been much worse.
Dat Idiot logic :roll:

[Im Still Ballin]

Regardless,

It comes down to beating the best from the West in the end

[Hotlantadude81]

Bro the Grizzlies with their roster right now would make the east finals. Stop.


I'd argue even Houston sans Dwight would make noise over there.



Pelicans could probably beat the fu*king Celtics and Brooklyn.

The Pelicans would most likely beat the Hawks in a 7 game series.

[Quickening]

Regardless,

It comes down to beating the best from the West in the end

This...

[bobeticus]

Maybe Kobe should've went to the Bulls when he was threatening to leave LA. He'd have 10 rings by now since the East is so weak. :bowdown:
Seriously though, why don't all these superstars just join the east if it's so weak?

this.

this im saying alotta times here in ish on every thread discussion about the conference competition...

why not SUPERSTARS FROM WEST JOIN TEAMS IN THE EAST :rockon: :rockon:

[ArbitraryWater]

You could argue pretty much any season from the East in the early 2000's as being worse than this years. And go check out some of the conferences in the mid to late '70's

This... Early 2000s = free title for West.


Heck, 2009-2011 East was more Top heavy than West.

The West in the 80s was ****in bad..

[Im Still Ballin]

This...
If people can theoretically assume western teams would make it to the finals in the east because it is so weak

Then surely the east would never win in the NBA finals against the best team from the west

...

Right?

The east is weaker but in the end 1 team from the east makes it to the finals and although the east is lacking, there is always at least 1 contender

HINT: ITS ALWAYS A LEBRON TEAM

[BigTicket]

The East is weak right now, but it's not as bad as people make it out to be. If the Cavs were healthy, they would have a good chance at beating the Warriors.

Also, the East has won 4 out of the last 10 championships, and 8 out of the last 20, so it's not like the West is winning every year.

[Nick Young]

Every year, the East manages to lower the bar. :facepalm

#LEASTERNCONFERENCE

[Optimus Prime]

Easiest path to The Finals ever these past few seasons. LeBeta got asterisks everywhere. Even more pathetic when he goes 2/6!

[Eric Cartman]

Lebron with more finals MVP than Kobe after this season.

Cavs get swept vs HOU/GS

[Lebron23]

Cavs get swept vs HOU/GS


50/50 vs. The West teams. Hopefully Irving needs to be more productive in Game 2.

[BlackWhiteGreen]

Needs to switch to top 16 teams ASAP.. These playoffs have been garbage..

I don't get how only the cavs can put together a decent team in the east. How are the rest so pathetic???!
Hawks were pretenders all year it was obvious, especially post all star, same with the Wizards.
The Bulls were just woeful

Top 16 would have been OKC for BKN, literally the only change. The 1st round would have been terrible too

[plowking]

Warriors competition this year:
Pelicans
Grizzlies (Fvcked by injuries)
Rockets (Dwight injured)

They got it pretty easy too

Reminds me a lot of 2009, when the Lakers beat:

Utah - without Okur and Kirilenko injured
Houston - without T-Mac and Yao (Scola the best player)
Played Orlando in the finals...

:oldlol:

Dudes got pushed to 7 games by a Scola led Rockets. :oldlol:

[sd3035]

Why are you being a p*ssy?
Just post your intention like a man.
Say '' if Lebron makes the finals this year, it won't mean anything. The east is weak. All I'm trying to do is to discredit Lebron.''


What a paranoid, insecure Lebaldo stan :roll:

[ILLsmak]

Reminds me a lot of 2009, when the Lakers beat:

Utah - without Okur and Kirilenko injured
Houston - without T-Mac and Yao (Scola the best player)
Played Orlando in the finals...

:oldlol:

Dudes got pushed to 7 games by a Scola led Rockets. :oldlol:

yea it just sucks...

I hate watching teams cake walk to the championship. I hate "xCF is the real finals."

The east is very weak though. It's made to look weaker because the Cavs are an actually good team that can win the championship, even now.

Injuries are just a real thing now. They are more prevalent than before. I dunno why people don't think this is true, but it obviously has been. Dudes going down make the comp weaker. That's why GSW looks really good, they pretty much have no injuries.

-Smak

[Velocirap31]

Reminds me a lot of 2009, when the Lakers beat:

Utah - without Okur and Kirilenko injured
Houston - without T-Mac and Yao (Scola the best player)
Played Orlando in the finals...

:oldlol:

Dudes got pushed to 7 games by a Scola led Rockets. :oldlol:

:lol I'm not sure kobetard memory exceeds 5+ years

[JellyBean]

The East has been pretty weak for decades.

[Magic 32]

Regardless,

It comes down to beating the best from the West in the end

So lets ignore the team that make it to the finals and lose to the west.

Not an accomplishment.

[ISHGoat]

So lets ignore the team that make it to the finals and lose to the west.

Not an accomplishment.

your a moran

[Wally450]

Ahh typical ISH, Atlanta loses Game 1 and they're all of a sudden pretenders. Didn't they lose to Washington in Game 1 also? If Atlanta ties it up in Game 2 everyone will be back to their normal "LeBron bout to choke da series away" and "Atlanta in 6"

[Roundball_Rock]

- 3 teams with non-winning records making the playoffs
- #1 seed Atlanta being complete pretenders
- Cavs easily taking the East despite K. Love being out
- Chicago proved to be total pretenders


I mean damn, I think I might be witnessing the worst conference of all time.

How about the 1987 West?

The Lakers played 37, 42 win teams in the first two rounds and a 39 win team in the WCF. The #3 seed won 49 games and 44 wins was enough for #4 and HCA. Those were the only teams to win more than 42 games. At the bottom of the conference was a 12-70 team.

[dynasty1978]

- 3 teams with non-winning records making the playoffs
- #1 seed Atlanta being complete pretenders
- Cavs easily taking the East despite K. Love being out
- Chicago proved to be total pretenders


I mean damn, I think I might be witnessing the worst conference of all time.

QFT. The only pushback you'll get is from Bran Stans.

[Leroy Jetson]

Top 16 would have been OKC for BKN, literally the only change. The 1st round would have been terrible too
Technically that's true but Cleveland would be a 7 seed instead of a 2 seed, and that's after playing all the cupcakes in the east 3-4 times a season. The rest of the trash in the East would be shown the door in round 1, setting up a great round 2. You also wouldn't have the Spurs playing the Clippers in the first round. I think we all agree that if the Spurs hit one more 3 in game 7, they would be in the WCF right now for an epic series against the Warriors.

[kamil]

How about the 1987 West?

The Lakers played 37, 42 win teams in the first two rounds and a 39 win team in the WCF. The #3 seed won 49 games and 44 wins was enough for #4 and HCA. Those were the only teams to win more than 42 games. At the bottom of the conference was a 12-70 team.

LOL, Clippers.

[tmacattack33]

LOL.

I think these Hawks and Cavs (even without Love) would have beaten the 2001 Sixers, the 2002 and 2003 Nets.

[jlip]

A poster whose screen name is 87 Lakers has the audacity to talk about weak conferences.:coleman:

[FLDFSU]

Ahh typical ISH, Atlanta loses Game 1 and they're all of a sudden pretenders. Didn't they lose to Washington in Game 1 also? If Atlanta ties it up in Game 2 everyone will be back to their normal "LeBron bout to choke da series away" and "Atlanta in 6"


:applause: ISH is filled with morons who change their positions to predictable ones as soon as they are wrong.

Just like you said, if the Cavs win: "weakest conference of all time..." This is despite these same idiots claiming that last year's East was the weakest, but yet somehow the Miami Heat, the most stacked team of all time, cannot even make the playoffs in the "weakest conference."

If the Atlanta wins: "Lebron's a choker who has the most stacked team of all time" and "Just like I predicted Atlanta in 5!!!"

If Cleveland wins the entire thing: "Weakest ERA of all time" "None of this counts!!!" :rant :rant :rant

[Charlie Sheen]

A poster whose screen name is 87 Lakers has the audacity to talk about week conferences.:coleman:
:oldlol:

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

All of this is common knowledge OP, but for sure.

I generally view LeBron's first 2 rings with an asterisk attached (lockout/shuttlesworth), and while I did say another title might negate that, now I'm not so sure. This years eastern conference is arguably the worst conference of all-time with a combination of injuries, fodder and abysmal offenses.

Its just hard for me to put stock into the Cavs being a hypothetical champion with a red carpet to the finals.

[Simple Jack]

^ above me is an idiot.


No one would be saying "Bulls" are pretenders if Bron didn't hit that GW. A team being good or bad shouldn't depend on that, nor should it depend on a JR Smith getting hot and hitting a franchise high 8 threes.

If the Cavaliers win the title, what will people say? GS wasn't that good either?

[Rose'sACL]

A poster whose screen name is 87 Lakers has the audacity to talk about weak conferences.:coleman:
OP got ethered.

[24-Inch_Chrome]

East is weaker than the West. No disputes that.

This talk of "asterisks" is ridiculous though, so many championships could be slapped with asterisks for a wide variety of reasons (weak conference, refs, key injuries to opponents, etc.). There's no point in opening that can of worms, a ring is a ring is a ring, at least as far as the validity of a title.

[KG215]

I wouldn't go so far as to say it's the worst ever, but it's certainly not good. I'm not sure there's been a more "meh" 60-win team in NBA history than this year's Hawks. Of course I've done no research, but I'd be surprised if any other 60+ win team in NBA history was this close to being just average. They weren't average when they won 19 in a row and were beating top teams from both conferences left and right in December and January, but from then on they've been pretty much just a little above average and haven't gotten back their "19 Game Win Streak" swag. Not even close.

Point being, outside of the Cavs, there really isn't another team in the East that's even remotely close to being a legit contender. I mean not even a little bit. The Bulls had the look on paper but their offense is/was just so comically, embarrassingly awful you just can't take them seriously. There were probably 3-5 teams in the West this season closer to "legit contender" status than any Eastern Conference team outside of the Cavs.

I know I've said this too much, mostly just to get under the skin of LeBron fanboys, but there is something to it. You can't ignore the fact that the Cavs can lose a player of Kevin Love's caliber, LeBron playing good but nowhere near his "great" standard, and seemingly every other player on the team playing hobbled and they're still, quite comfortably, the best team in the East.

[KG215]

East is weaker than the West. No disputes that.

This talk of "asterisks" is ridiculous though, so many championships could be slapped with asterisks for a wide variety of reasons (weak conference, refs, key injuries to opponents, etc.). There's no point in opening that can of worms, a ring is a ring is a ring, at least as far as the validity of a title.
Yeah, it's not like you can't raise any doubts about the Warriors path to the Finals and possibly a championship shit year.

- Avoided the Spurs

- A fully healthy OKC team would've been scary good but they never got healthy enough to make the playoffs

- Played the Grizzlies with Conley missing a game and never at 100% the rest of the series and Tony Allen missing two games

- Could potentially play at least one game against the Rockets without Dwight Howard and, even if/when he does return, he likely won't be 100%

- Could play a Love-less, hobbling Cavs team in the Finals


But you can do this most (if not all) years for every team that wins a championship. Maybe not to the extent we're seeing this year, but you can play this game about any given season to some degree.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

^ above me is an idiot.

No one would be saying "Bulls" are pretenders if Bron didn't hit that GW. A team being good or bad shouldn't depend on that, nor should it depend on a JR Smith getting hot and hitting a franchise high 8 threes.

If the Cavaliers win the title, what will people say? GS wasn't that good either?

Luckily IFs aren't a part of reality.

Hypothetically speaking, though, IF the Cavs win a title, smart basketball fans (yourself excluded) will say they had an easy road to the finals.

[Heavincent]

Yeah, it's not like you can't raise any doubts about the Warriors path to the Finals and possibly a championship shit year.

- Avoided the Spurs


Lets stop with this silly logic. The Warriors aren't lucky because the Spurs weren't good enough to beat the Clippers.

[KG215]

Lets stop with this silly logic. The Warriors aren't lucky because the Spurs weren't good enough to beat the Clippers.
Ok, and? I still think the Warriors would've beaten the Spurs, but they tend to get their shit together and rolling as they advance in the playoffs, or at least it seems that way the last few years. And they're the defending champs and have a ton of playoff experience and moxie. That wasn't even really the point of my post, anyway. I was trying to point out you could do this for the Warriors, too, or any other Finals/championship team in any other given season.

[Cleverness]

Reminds me a lot of 2009, when the Lakers beat:

Utah - without Okur and Kirilenko injured
Houston - without T-Mac and Yao (Scola the best player)
Played Orlando in the finals...

:oldlol:

Dudes got pushed to 7 games by a Scola led Rockets. :oldlol:

Utah still would have lost with those two guys healthy

Houston was interesting though. Wasn't Artest playing great in that series? Then the Lakers picked him up the following year.

And yeah, Orlando... probably would have played Celtics if Garnett healthly

[livinglegend]

How about the 1987 West?

The Lakers played 37, 42 win teams in the first two rounds and a 39 win team in the WCF. The #3 seed won 49 games and 44 wins was enough for #4 and HCA. Those were the only teams to win more than 42 games. At the bottom of the conference was a 12-70 team.

Let's see what OP responds to this.
Otherwise


/Thread

[100grandman]

exaggerating.

Didn't Atlanta have the best record in the league this year?

[SHAQisGOAT]

How about the 1987 West?

The Lakers played 37, 42 win teams in the first two rounds and a 39 win team in the WCF. The #3 seed won 49 games and 44 wins was enough for #4 and HCA. Those were the only teams to win more than 42 games. At the bottom of the conference was a 12-70 team.

Sonics were blazing in the Playoffs though, led by Ellis, Chambers and X-Man...
-> They upsetted 55-27 Dallas (late 80's Mavs were very good) in the 1st round but obviously that doesn't show when you sum it up like that.
They also beat the better seeded Hakeem's Rockets, before facing LA.

Nuggets had a down year in 1987, mostly because Natt severely injured himself and Wayne Cooper was declining... but they had won 52 in '85, 47 in '86 and then won 54 in '88, just to paint a picture.
They were a pretty good team throughout the decade, having English, Lever, Dunn and Hanzlik during the late 80's.

Warriors were coached by George Karl, had Sleepy, Barry Carroll and young Mullin... but were far from something special, yea.

Think sometimes the 80's West gets underrated, mostly because the 80's East is most likely the GOAT Conference.
West they had some very good teams throughout the decade though, at some point or another, and obviously one of the GOAT dynasties, showtime LA.

For example, compare 1987 WC to the present EC, and 1st and foremost I'll say that the '87 Lakers would've STOMPED today's East... Shit, they would've stomped all the league.

But, yea, you can definitely say that the 1987 Lakers had a relatively easy road to the Finals, also given their level, while the other side was STACKED with teams beating the hell out of each-other; Boston with an extremely hard path.

[Rose'sACL]

Sonics were blazing in the Playoffs though, led by Ellis, Chambers and X-Man...
-> They upsetted 55-27 Dallas in the 1st round but obviously that doesn't show when you sum it up like that.
They also beat the better seeded Hakeem's Rockets, before facing LA.

Nuggets had a down year in 1987, mostly because Natt severely injured himself and Wayne Cooper was declining... but they had won 52 in '85, 47 in '86 and then won 54 in '88, just to paint a picture.
They were a pretty good team throughout the decade, having English, Lever, Dunn and Hanzlik during the late 80's.

Warriors were coached by George Karl, had Sleepy, Barry Carroll and young Mullin... but were far from something special, yea.

Think sometimes the 80's West gets underrated, mostly because the 80's East is most likely the GOAT Conference.
West they had some very good teams throughout the decade though, at some point or another, and obviously one of the GOAT dynasties, showtime LA.

For example, compare 1987 WC to the present EC, and 1st and foremost I'll say that the '87 Lakers would've STOMPED today's East... Shit, they would've stomped all the league.

But, yea, you can definitely say that the 1987 Lakers had a relatively easy road to the Finals, also given their level, while the other side was STACKED with teams beating the hell out of each-other; Boston with an extremely hard path.

Hawks have won 60 games so your dallas statement falls on its face plus hawks didn't lose to nets or wizards like that dallas team did.
Also, who gives a fck if nuggets won more games in previous or next season? we are talking about a particular season.
Should everyone include pacers and heat in this discussion too given that PG and bosh weren't playing ?
You are so biased that it is not even funny. this thread is all about who the lakers faced. no one cares who was hot near the playoffs and who had injuries. that is the whole foundation of this thread.

[Showtime80']

Thank you thank you Shaq is Goat!!!

The West from 1980 to 1991 (Magic's career) had basically three down seasons which were 84', 85' and 87' which could be attributed to injuries instead of disproportion of talent like the East has had in comparison to the West in the last 15 years! Not to mention the Milwaukee Bucks who were a perennial power in the 80's was moved from the West to the East early in the decade.

The West winning percentage against the East from 1980 to 1991, again during Magic's career was 47% while the East's has been 42% against the West since 2003, LeBron's career! No comparison! Haven't even gotten into the pathetic teams that have come out of the East I'm that time!

The 87' Lakers in today's NBA would be unfair, basically they could have the best inside game, mid range game, fast break and trapping defense in the league. No contest!

[Showtime80']

Go look at the Final four teams in 1988 and compare them to the pathetic bunch you have this year! Bird's Celtics, Bad Boy Pistons, Showtime Lakers and a STACKED Dallas Mavericks!

Right now LeBron is probably going to get out of that pathetic conference with a career knuckle head in JR Smith as the second scoring option! A guy who could've even crack the bench for any of the final four teams in 1988! Doing it against Atlanta who have no superstar player, no inside game, subpar running game and basically their offense revolves around wasting 18 to 23 seconds getting off a thee pointer!

Sad state indeed!

[Rose'sACL]

Thank you thank you Shaq is Goat!!!

The West from 1980 to 1991 (Magic's career) had basically three down seasons which were 84', 85' and 87' which could be attributed to injuries instead of disproportion of talent like the East has had in comparison to the West in the last 15 years! Not to mention the Milwaukee Bucks who were a perennial power in the 80's was moved from the West to the East early in the decade.

The West winning percentage against the East from 1980 to 1991, again during Magic's career was 47% while the East's has been 42% against the West since 2003, LeBron's career! No comparison! Haven't even gotten into the pathetic teams that have come out of the East I'm that time!

The 87' Lakers in today's NBA would be unfair, basically they could have the best inside game, mid range game, fast break and trapping defense in the league. No contest!
but real salary cap exists in today's league. you can't have so many HoFers in their prime or close to their prime for a whole decade now.
When i look at celtics and lakers from 80s, i am really disappointed at their defense overall. thankfully the pistons in the late 80s showed that you can hang with much more talented teams if you have great defense. they got a little better at offense and won rings.

[PP34Deuce]

Go look at the Final four teams in 1988 and compare them to the pathetic bunch you have this year! Bird's Celtics, Bad Boy Pistons, Showtime Lakers and a STACKED Dallas Mavericks!

Right now LeBron is probably going to get out of that pathetic conference with a career knuckle head in JR Smith as the second scoring option! A guy who could've even crack the bench for any of the final four teams in 1988! Doing it against Atlanta who have no superstar player, no inside game, subpar running game and basically their offense revolves around wasting 18 to 23 seconds getting off a thee pointer!

Sad state indeed!


JR Smith is not trash. He reminds me of this past decades Jim Jackson. He has all the tools to be an all star level player but just mindset holds him back. He's good enough to stick in the league for a long time and his jumper has gotten better.

[chazzy]

No one would be saying "Bulls" are pretenders if Bron didn't hit that GW.
Lebron shooting the way he did, along with Love being out and Kyrie playing hurt, would've meant an early exit for the Cavs in the West. That's the luxury. They were total pretenders especially with Gasol being hurt. Their offense was based on Rose and Butler, and Rose isn't someone you can rely on consistently right now.

[Rose'sACL]

Go look at the Final four teams in 1988 and compare them to the pathetic bunch you have this year! Bird's Celtics, Bad Boy Pistons, Showtime Lakers and a STACKED Dallas Mavericks!

Right now LeBron is probably going to get out of that pathetic conference with a career knuckle head in JR Smith as the second scoring option! A guy who could've even crack the bench for any of the final four teams in 1988! Doing it against Atlanta who have no superstar player, no inside game, subpar running game and basically their offense revolves around wasting 18 to 23 seconds getting off a thee pointer!

Sad state indeed!
now the season has been changed to 88.
if the injury excuse can be used then final 4 in this year could have had cavs with love,kyrie and lebron. Thunder with westbrook and durant. warriors with curry plus a stacked team and clippers/houston/spurs.
Durant has top 10 ceiling easily and unless the injury keeps bugging him, he will end up being top 10 all time by the time he retires. LeBron is already there. Curry has already taken the title or best shooter of all time. Westbrook would have given 80s defense some real problems just by driving at supersonic speeds. Magic would have had to be hidden even more on defense. CP3 and westbrook would be right behind magic at the PG spot. lebron would be bird's equal and durant would be very slightly behind bird and lebron.

[Hey Yo]

Thank you thank you Shaq is Goat!!!

The West from 1980 to 1991 (Magic's career) had basically three down seasons which were 84', 85' and 87' which could be attributed to injuries instead of disproportion of talent like the East has had in comparison to the West in the last 15 years! Not to mention the Milwaukee Bucks who were a perennial power in the 80's was moved from the West to the East early in the decade.

The West winning percentage against the East from 1980 to 1991, again during Magic's career was 47% while the East's has been 42% against the West since 2003, LeBron's career! No comparison! Haven't even gotten into the pathetic teams that have come out of the East I'm that time!

The 87' Lakers in today's NBA would be unfair, basically they could have the best inside game, mid range game, fast break and trapping defense in the league. No contest!
It's pretty asinine to imply the East hasn't suffered key injuries over the last 15yrs and to solely blame it on "disproportion of talent"


Why, because they would actually face a few teams who play defense in their quest to get to the Finals?

[Showtime80']

Never confuse GREAT DEFENSE with SLOWING the pace down!!! No supposedly great defensive teams can keep a great offensive team on lock for long, the offense ALWAYS has an innate advantage over the offense because they have the ball and defense will always be guessing/reacting. The Pistons altered their pace from 1987 to 1988 because they knew they at the end more possessions for guys teams like the Celtics or Lakers were lethal so eventhough they could score in bunches as the 1987 ECF showed, their strengths specially after they got Rodman and Salley was to slow the game down.

The 80's Lakers and Celtics could play ANY style of basketball and still win. Go look at the scores from the 1988 Finals, the average was lower than a lot of the ones you se now a days.

Those teams were great defensive teams, check their point differential! They just played in a time where offenses were a lot more potent than what you see now.

[Hey Yo]

Go look at the Final four teams in 1988 and compare them to the pathetic bunch you have this year! Bird's Celtics, Bad Boy Pistons, Showtime Lakers and a STACKED Dallas Mavericks!

Right now LeBron is probably going to get out of that pathetic conference with a career knuckle head in JR Smith as the second scoring option! A guy who could've even crack the bench for any of the final four teams in 1988! Doing it against Atlanta who have no superstar player, no inside game, subpar running game and basically their offense revolves around wasting 18 to 23 seconds getting off a thee pointer!

Sad state indeed!
So it's better to have a loaded team, like the 80's Lakers, dominate their pathetic division and conference on their way to the Finals?

[ImKobe]

So it's better to have a loaded team, like the 80's Lakers, and dominate their pathetic division and conference on their way to the Finals?

80s Lakers beat loaded teams in the Finals, 5 out of 8 times to be exact

what is your point?

it's not like they dominated their pathetic conference and folded in the Finals like Lebron.

[SHAQisGOAT]

Hawks have won 60 games so your dallas statement falls on its face plus hawks didn't lose to nets or wizards like that dallas team did.
Also, who gives a fck if nuggets won more games in previous or next season? we are talking about a particular season.
Should everyone include pacers and heat in this discussion too given that PG and bosh weren't playing ?
You are so biased that it is not even funny. this thread is all about who the lakers faced. no one cares who was hot near the playoffs and who had injuries. that is the whole foundation of this thread.

Damn...

http://static.fjcdn.com/pictures/Jack_c9636a_1981466.jpg

I was only saying that the Sonics uptsetted a very good team, mostly because Ellis went beastly against his former team, while Chambers and McDaniel followed a similar path.

Really wanna make some comparisons, huh? Sure you wanna go down that road...

Wanna compare the team with the most wins in the 2015 EC to the team with the most wins in the 1987 WC? '15 Hawks vs '87 Lakers? I won't even... :oldlol:

Shit, I like today's Hawks but I can't even see them beating those late 80's Mavs with Aguirre, Blackman, Harper, Sam Perkins, Tarpley and young Schrempf... Dallas had better overall players and like the Hawks they also played some great team-ball (like most 80's teams did).
I won't even know how a team like '15 Atlanta would handle something like prime Elis going absolutely HAM, helped by prime Chambers, prime X-Man and a nice supporting cast. They'd be ****ed, Tom and Xavier could REALLY ball and prime Dale was something like Klay Thompson on steroids.

:rolleyes: Like I've said, Nuggets were a pretty good team throughout the decade, they had a very down year but they were LEGIT...
I did not only talk about the previous year for them, but two years prior and the following year too, with the sme core... Really wanna make the Pacers analogy or something? :facepalm

On my 1st post, I discussed the 1987 Lakers, the 1987 Western Conference, plus the overall 80's West, comparing what's comparable to today's East... The whole point of this topic, let's leave it at that.

Oh, and keep sticking to replying to only one of my post's paragraph :lol

[Rose'sACL]

Never confuse GREAT DEFENSE with SLOWING the pace down!!! No supposedly great defensive teams can keep a great offensive team on lock for long, the offense ALWAYS has an innate advantage over the offense because they have the ball and defense will always be guessing/reacting. The Pistons altered their pace from 1987 to 1988 because they knew they at the end more possessions for guys teams like the Celtics or Lakers were lethal so eventhough they could score in bunches as the 1987 ECF showed, their strengths specially after they got Rodman and Salley was to slow the game down.

The 80's Lakers and Celtics could play ANY style of basketball and still win. Go look at the scores from the 1988 Finals, the average was lower than a lot of the ones you se now a days.

Those teams were great defensive teams, check their point differential! They just played in a time where offenses were a lot more potent than what you see now.
i am not confusing great defense with slowing the pace down. I am just saying that 80s didn't have good defense.
i am not some 90s fanboy but 90s had better defense. i argue a lot with MJ stans but i never say that 90s had bad defense because i would be wrong if i said that. 80s just didn't have great defense.
Also, your defense needs the ability to slow the pace down if your offense doesn't benefit from running. that is a trademark of a great defense.

[SpanishACB]

Regardless,

It comes down to beating the best from the West in the end

this is never true in a knock off tournament system aka the playoffs

if you have team a) who constantly beats the whole league, and team b) who has a 50% win rating but beats a) because rock paper scissors, it's a matter of who gets paired where, either of them could make it to the finals but one could argue team a) is the better team. This could be easily argued if it wasn't that obvious that there's regular season coasting, tanking and such.

if you add an extra layer to that, by adding conferences, then it's even worse

[Showtime80']

Seriously now??? Does anybody out of these year's final four teams takes even ONE GAME away from the 88' final four teams?!? Again LeBron James is going to the Finals with JR Smith as a second option!!!!

The league is at its SOFTEST it has ever been, the fundamentals have plummeted thanks to all the early entries and perimeter oriented fixation.

This is what the league wanted, subpar lineups playing for the title, in the 80's you needed top 50 level talent to win titles!

LOL at Russell "dumb as a rock" Westbrook being mentioned in the same breath as Magic as far as PG play goes. I could just imagine Magic shooting the damn ball 30 to 40 times a game, his stat line would be ridiculous and A LOT more efficient than Westbrick! Here's a little saying Norm Nixon had way back when:

"Subpar to good PG's get their teammates jump shots, great PG's get them layups and dunks"

[SHAQisGOAT]

i am not confusing great defense with slowing the pace down. I am just saying that 80s didn't have good defense.
i am not some 90s fanboy but 90s had better defense. i argue a lot with MJ stans but i never say that 90s had bad defense because i would be wrong if i said that. 80s just didn't have great defense.
Also, your defense needs the ability to slow the pace down if your offense doesn't benefit from running. that is a trademark of a great defense.

Don't talk about what you've never seen, son.

G'ahead and prove to us why the 80's didn't have good defense... Please...

-DRtg? Pretty much the same as nowadays. Oh, and if you go by that, the 70's were easily the best defensive era.

-Pull quotes? I can pull quotes from the same "type of people" saying the contrary.

-Footage? Go on and make numerous extensive videos with that, because I can post highlights of the contrary from bck then, or similar shitty defensive highlights from today, if you stick to posting highlights... I can even post extensive videos of the opposite from back then, while I'm sure you can't post one with extensive "bad" defense.

-Great defensive teams and players from those days? I can name plenty.

[WallIn]

That topic returns every single year. Last year it was the worst ever because #1 Pacers sucked.

[Hey Yo]

80s Lakers beat loaded teams in the Finals, 5 out of 8 times to be exact

what is your point?
The point of watching you guys cry about the Eastern conference when the shoe is on the other foot.



it's not like they dominated their pathetic conference and folded in the Finals like Lebron.
You mean like how Magic aka Tragic, folded 4 times?

[Rose'sACL]

Seriously now??? Does anybody out of these year's final four teams takes even ONE GAME away from the 88' final four teams?!? Again LeBron James is going to the Finals with JR Smith as a second option!!!!

The league is at its SOFTEST it has ever been, the fundamentals have plummeted thanks to all the early entries and perimeter oriented fixation.

This is what the league wanted, subpar lineups playing for the title, in the 80's you needed top 50 level talent to win titles!

LOL at Russell "dumb as a rock" Westbrook being mentioned in the same breath as Magic as far as PG play goes. I could just imagine Magic shooting the damn ball 30 to 40 times a game, his stat line would be ridiculous and A LOT more efficient than Westbrick! Here's a little saying Norm Nixon had way back when:

"Subpar to good PG's get their teammates jump shots, great PG's get them layups and dunks"
warriors would take at least 2 away from any of those 88 finalists and so would a healthy cavs team plus these teams play under an actual salary cap.

keep switching the year from 87 to 88 though to help your cause.

[Rose'sACL]

Don't talk about what you've never seen, son.

G'ahead and prove to us why the 80's didn't have good defense... Please...

-DRtg? Pretty much the same as nowadays. Oh, and if you go by that, the 70's were easily the best defensive era.

-Pull quotes? I can pull quotes from the same "type of people" saying the contrary.

-Footage? Go on and make numerous extensive videos with that, because I can post highlights of the contrary from bck then, or similar shitty defensive highlights from today, if you stick to posting highlights... I can even post extensive videos of the opposite from back then, while I'm sure you can't post one with extensive "bad" defense.

-Great defensive teams and players from those days? I can name plenty.

keep calling everyone "son" when they don't agree with your biased opinion.

[Showtime80']

Two?!?? Two what?!? Quarters!!! LOL!

You mean to tell me that a team with JR Smith as the second option is going to even sniff at the heels of lineups with 4 to 5 scoring options, star players, great inside game and fast break plus more depth! Keep dreaming my man!

Want to know why the 90's "seemed like it had better defense" than the 80's?!? WORSE OFFENSES!!! Look at the lineups for the decade's top teams like Jordan's Bulls, Hakeem's Rockets, Ewing's Knicks and Malone/Stock Jazz, what do they all have in common? They built their lineups the way the 90's salary structure permitted them to, basically 1 to 2 dominant scorers surrounded by role players thus becoming more limited offensively and becoming easier to contain.

Check out the lineups of the title winning teams from 80's! STACKED! More difficult to defend! Hell check out the lineups teams that never won the titles like the 80's Mavs, Bucks, Rockets, Hawks, Nuggets etc..,

[Rose'sACL]

Two?!?? Two what?!? Quarters!!! LOL!

You mean to tell me that a team with JR Smith as the second option is going to even sniff at the heels of lineups with 4 to 5 scoring options, star players, great inside game and fast break plus more depth! Keep dreaming my man!

Want to know why the 90's "seemed like it had better defense" than the 80's?!? WORSE OFFENSES!!! Look at the lineups for the decade's top teams like Jordan's Bulls, Hakeem's Rockets, Ewing's Knicks and Malone/Stock Jazz, what do they all have in common? They built their lineups the way the 90's salary structure permitted them to, basically 1 to 2 dominant scorers surrounded by role players thus becoming more limited offensively and becoming easier to contain.

Check out the lineups of the title winning teams from 80's! STACKED! More difficult to defend! Hell check out the lineups teams that never won the titles like the 80's Mavs, Bucks, Rockets, Hawks, Nuggets etc..,
you just proved my point. 80s teams were only good because of no salary cap but in the 90s they had to play defense to make up for it.
talent was the same but celtics and lakers just got most of it to themselves. if we just go by lineups then check out 2014 heat, they had wade, bosh and lebron. we will not discuss how bosh and wade played but lineups are all the matter.
other than 2014 heat, every team in last 5 finals will take at least 1 game from those teams and some will make it a 7 game series.

[Showtime80']

Uh no!!! 80's teams were good because they were being led by top 50 players of all time like Magic, Bird, Isiah and Irving.

Insert Westbrick, Curry or Harden in place of the names I mentioned above, do you HONESTLY think those teams have the same result?!? NO WAY!!! Pat Riley specially would've MURDERED an inefficient chucker like Westbrick!

A team that has 4 to 5 scoring options and depth like the 80's champions had IS ALWAYS going to be harder to defend that 1/2 scoring options surrounded by role players like the 90's teams had simple as that! He'll the 1994 Finals featured John Starks and Vernon Frigging Maxwell as the second scoring options onthe Knicks and Rockets!!!LOL! Those two guys would've been bench players in ANY of the Finals teams in the 80's

Don't blame the 80's guys because they weren't as greedy and didn't jump from team to team every other year and could actually CO EXIST with other all stars on the team. Offenses now, with no inside, mid range or running game are EASIER to stop than those of the 90's and sure as he'll would be no match for the 80's teams!!!

LOL at Chris Bosch soft as! against Moses, Kareem, Parish, McHale and the Bad Boy front lines!!!

[Rose'sACL]

Uh no!!! 80's teams were good because they were being led by top 50 players of all time like Magic, Bird, Isiah and Irving.

Insert Westbrick, Curry or Harden in place of the names I mentioned above, do you HONESTLY think those teams have the same result?!? NO WAY!!! Pat Riley specially would've MURDERED an inefficient chucker like Westbrick!

A team that has 4 to 5 scoring options and depth like the 80's champions had IS ALWAYS going to be harder to defend that 1/2 scoring options surrounded by role players like the 90's teams had simple as that! He'll the 1994 Finals featured John Starks and Vernon Frigging Maxwell as the second scoring options onthe Knicks and Rockets!!!LOL! Those two guys would've been bench players in ANY of the Finals teams in the 80's

Don't blame the 80's guys because they weren't as greedy and didn't jump from team to team every other year and could actually CO EXIST with other all stars on the team. Offenses now, with no inside, mid range or running game are EASIER to stop than those of the 90's and sure as he'll would be no match for the 80's teams!!!

LOL at Chris Bosch soft as! against Moses, Kareem, Parish, McHale and the Bad Boy front lines!!!
durant would be the top 3 player in any era. Do you even see that guy? he scores on anyone and any type of defense.
Curry would wreak havoc on any team from any era. he is easily the best shooter of all time. that run and gun offense of most teams in the 80s would suit him even more.
Westbrook and CP3 would be top 3-4 PG in any era. go ahead prove me wrong.

[Mass Debator]

Insert Westbrick, Curry or Harden in place of the names I mentioned above, do you HONESTLY think those teams have the same result?!? NO WAY!!! Pat Riley specially would've MURDERED an inefficient chucker like Westbrick!
You cracked the code!!! It's not the players...the coaches are getting soft! :eek:

[Showtime80']

Got to laugh! NO coach in the late 80's would take a shoot first, inefficient chucker like Westbrick to be the quarterback of a high powered offense over guys like Magic, Isiah, Stockton, Lever, KJ, Mark Price, or even Terry Porter. Russell has trouble coexisting with ONE other scorer on his team, he would not know how to cope being surrounded by 2 or 3 legit threats!!! As far as Chris Paul goes, he's definitely a true PG although he blows in fast break situations in comparison with the PG's and in the 80's you had to be good in the fast break

Take a look at the top 10 MVP voting in 1988:

Jordan
Bird
Magic
Barkley
Drexler
Wilkins
Olajuwon
K Malone
Lever
Stockton

I'm sorry but that list absolutely BLOWS AWAY this year's top 10!!! Guys like Curry, Harden and Westbrick would NOT crack that list.

In today's pathetic soft NBA, Curry is and MVP, in 1988 he's not even top 10 in voting!

[ArbitraryWater]

Reminds me a lot of 2009, when the Lakers beat:

Utah - without Okur and Kirilenko injured
Houston - without T-Mac and Yao (Scola the best player)
Played Orlando in the finals...

:oldlol:

Dudes got pushed to 7 games by a Scola led Rockets. :oldlol:

That year had the WOAT CSF and Finals Team :lol

And then the Melo led Nuggets.. lol.

meanwhile East, Celtics/Cavs/Magic.. :bowdown:

[Showtime80']

He'll Isiah Thomas didn't crack the top 10 in MVP voting in 1988 and he absolutely sh!ts on Harden and Curry!

[24-Inch_Chrome]

He'll Isiah Thomas didn't crack the top 10 in MVP voting in 1988 and he absolutely sh!ts on Harden and Curry!

Zeke is crazy underrated here. 3rd greatest PG ever imo, and he's barely talked about.

[Showtime80']

Young basketball uneducated little boys!

Take a look at the list of players IN THEIR PRIME Zeke had to go through to get his titles! Bird, McHale, Wilkins, Jordan, Magic, Ewing, Worthy etc! You could argue he had the TOUGHEST road to the title out of ALL the 80's guys!

Not to mention the Bad Boy Pistons would probably break down the will and body of guys like Curry (nice flop by the way) and Harden!

Men played in the 80's, not a league full of one and done along with soft Euros in that landscape!

[HOoopCityJones]

That year had the WOAT CSF and Finals Team :lol

And then the Melo led Nuggets.. lol.

meanwhile East, Celtics/Cavs/Magic.. :bowdown:


All of those Teams were good, Yao and TMac may have been out but a young Aaron Brooks was an absolute problem for The Lakers , who's starting PG was Fisher. Imagine him chasing him around now. Plus Shane Battier and Ron Artest who was so good defensively we added him to the roster to replace Ariza.

This notion that it was only Luis Scola is a clear omission by someone with an agenda.

Nuggets? You mean the Melo, Billups, Kenyon Martin, Nene, JR Smith Nuggets?

You just started watching Basketball in 2013. Sit the fucc down you nut guzzling bastard. :facepalm

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

All of those Teams were good, Yao and TMac may have been out but a young Aaron Brooks was an absolute problem for The Lakers , who's starting PG was Fisher. Imagine him chasing him around now. Plus Shane Battier and Ron Artest who was so good defensively we added him to the roster to replace Ariza.

This notion that it was only Luis Scola is a clear omission by someone with an agenda.

Nuggets? You mean the Melo, Billups, Kenyon Martin, Nene, JR Smith Nuggets?

You just started watching Basketball in 2013. Sit the fucc down you nut guzzling bastard. :facepalm
:eek:

Damn Arb, you gonna take this unwarranted beatdown?

[raprap]

Young basketball uneducated little boys!

Take a look at the list of players IN THEIR PRIME Zeke had to go through to get his titles! Bird, McHale, Wilkins, Jordan, Magic, Ewing, Worthy etc! You could argue he had the TOUGHEST road to the title out of ALL the 80's guys!

Not to mention the Bad Boy Pistons would probably break down the will and body of guys like Curry (nice flop by the way) and Harden!

Men played in the 80's, not a league full of one and done along with soft Euros in that landscape!
you sound angry. :(

[plowking]

All of those Teams were good, Yao and TMac may have been out but a young Aaron Brooks was an absolute problem for The Lakers , who's starting PG was Fisher. Imagine him chasing him around now. Plus Shane Battier and Ron Artest who was so good defensively we added him to the roster to replace Ariza.

This notion that it was only Luis Scola is a clear omission by someone with an agenda.

Nuggets? You mean the Melo, Billups, Kenyon Martin, Nene, JR Smith Nuggets?

You just started watching Basketball in 2013. Sit the fucc down you nut guzzling bastard. :facepalm

Riiiiggghhhttt.

So Aaron Brooks and Luis Scola were a "problem", yet a fully healthy and far better Atlanta team is somehow a "joke".

Why are people complaining about this Eastern Conference run? Let's say Atlanta wins and goes through. The Wizards are better than the broken Rockets that year, and the Cavs are a better team than the Nuggets.
Say the Cavs win. Chicago is better than the Rockets without Yao and T-Mac, and Atlanta is a better team than the 09 Nuggets.


The hate, and this weak Eastern Conference talk comes from the fact Lebron is more than likely going to reach the finals again after winning game 1. He can't win.
Wins with the Heat: * due to loaded team
Wins with a injured team, beating far better teams: pretenders! they actually suck!

How come no one said that when Hakeem beat everyone and the finals with his 40 something win team? Must have all been weak comp if you let that team win the finals?

[raprap]

Riiiiggghhhttt.

So Aaron Brooks and Luis Scola were a "problem", yet a fully healthy and far better Atlanta team is somehow a "joke".

Why are people complaining about this Eastern Conference run? Let's say Atlanta wins and goes through. The Wizards are better than the broken Rockets that year, and the Cavs are a better team than the Nuggets.
Say the Cavs win. Chicago is better than the Rockets without Yao and T-Mac, and Atlanta is a better team than the 09 Nuggets.


The hate, and this weak Eastern Conference talk comes from the fact Lebron is more than likely going to reach the finals again after winning game 1. He can't win.
Wins with the Heat: * due to loaded team
Wins with a injured team, beating far better teams: pretenders! they actually suck!

How come no one said that when Hakeem beat everyone and the finals with his 40 something win team? Must have all been weak comp if you let that team win the finals?
:applause:

[HOoopCityJones]

Riiiiggghhhttt.

So Aaron Brooks and Luis Scola were a "problem", yet a fully healthy and far better Atlanta team is somehow a "joke".

Why are people complaining about this Eastern Conference run? Let's say Atlanta wins and goes through. The Wizards are better than the broken Rockets that year, and the Cavs are a better team than the Nuggets.
Say the Cavs win. Chicago is better than the Rockets without Yao and T-Mac, and Atlanta is a better team than the 09 Nuggets.



The hate, and this weak Eastern Conference talk comes from the fact Lebron is more than likely going to reach the finals again after winning game 1. He can't win.
Wins with the Heat: * due to loaded team
Wins with a injured team, beating far better teams: pretenders! they actually suck!

How come no one said that when Hakeem beat everyone and the finals with his 40 something win team? Must have all been weak comp if you let that team win the finals?

You keep bringing up Scola , yet their highest scorer after Yao went down was Artest. Battier has always been a scrappy defender, 3pt shooter and glue guy, which I'm sure a Heat fan would know. And Aaron freakin Brooks.

It has more to do with the match up we had at PG more than anything. Fisher could not stop that kid and he is the sole reason aside from Artest it went to 7. Young Kyle Lowry was there too , but he wasn't a factor yet.


The Hawks are being criticized because their Playoff play doesn't match their record or that 19 win streak they went on where they just beat everyone. Series not over though, but with Lebron's history of slaying pretenders, can you blame them?

[plowking]

You keep bringing up Scola , yet their highest scorer after Yao went down was Artest. Battier has always been a scrappy defender, 3pt shooter and glue guy, which I'm sure a Heat fan would know. And Aaron freakin Brooks.

It has more to do with the match up we had at PG more than anything. Fisher could not stop that kid and he is the sole reason aside from Artest it went to 7. Young Kyle Lowry was there too , but he wasn't a factor yet.


The Hawks are being criticized because their Playoff play doesn't match their record or that 19 win streak they went on where they just beat everyone. Series not over though, but with Lebron's history of slaying pretenders, can you blame them?

You could say the same about the 08 Celtics... They went to 7 against the 37 win Hawks, and I'm pretty sure they played Detroit next, who won 40 something, and went to 7 against them too.

1 game, and people are up in arms. They are the better team. They won 60 games. You can't be a bad 60 win team. I still think they'll win and go to the finals and actually win.
If Bron and the Cavs win, it simply means they beat the better team and outplayed them over 7 games.

[HOoopCityJones]

You could say the same about the 08 Celtics... They went to 7 against the 37 win Hawks, and I'm pretty sure they played Detroit next, who won 40 something, and went to 7 against them too.

1 game, and people are up in arms. They are the better team. They won 60 games. You can't be a bad 60 win team. I still think they'll win and go to the finals and actually win.
If Bron and the Cavs win, it simply means they beat the better team and outplayed them over 7 games.

It ain't over til it's over in my book. But as far as what people are sensing, we've seen this series one too many times the last few years. Let's hope they at least push it to 7.

[KG215]

and Atlanta is a better team than the 09 Nuggets.
No.


Wins with a injured team, beating far better teams: pretenders! they actually suck!
He's not beating far better teams this year. His team, even sans-Love, is still better than the Bulls and their pathetically anemic offense and overrated defense; and his team, even sans-Love, is definitely better than the Hawks who have been playing like a 45-50 win team since January, not a 60 win team. They're better in large part because LeBron is the best player on the planet, but his teammates are outplaying the other team's role players.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

*Yawn* same posters crying about the Eastern Conference being weak, when its just a fact.

The Cavs without Love are still beating teams out east convincingly; worst conference of all-time by a long shot.

[plowking]

No.


He's not beating far better teams this year. His team, even sans-Love, is still better than the Bulls and their pathetically anemic offense and overrated defense; and his team, even sans-Love, is definitely better than the Hawks who have been playing like a 45-50 win team since January, not a 60 win team. They're better in large part because LeBron is the best player on the planet, but his teammates are outplaying the other team's role players.

:sleeping

This conversation is boring. It is obvious most of you are butthurt. No real genuine comments in here.

[livinglegend]

You keep bringing up Scola , yet their highest scorer after Yao went down was Artest. Battier has always been a scrappy defender, 3pt shooter and glue guy, which I'm sure a Heat fan would know. And Aaron freakin Brooks.

It has more to do with the match up we had at PG more than anything. Fisher could not stop that kid and he is the sole reason aside from Artest it went to 7. Young Kyle Lowry was there too , but he wasn't a factor yet.


The Hawks are being criticized because their Playoff play doesn't match their record or that 19 win streak they went on where they just beat everyone. Series not over though, but with Lebron's history of slaying pretenders, can you blame them?

Bulls >>> Rockets without Yao, T-Mac and Mutumbo
6'7 Hayes was their center going against Odom, Gasol and Bynum.:biggums: :biggums:
And game 7 started, refs gave Hayes two phantom off-ball calls sealing Rockets:coleman:

Rockets without Yao, T-Mac and Mutumbo is a 30 wins team at max.

[KG215]

The Cavs without Love are still beating teams out east convincingly; worst conference of all-time by a long shot.
I've been posting the same thing, granted a little too often (although that's mostly just to see which LeBron fanboys I can piss off in that particular game thread), and that's a very simple argument, but that in and of itself is pretty telling in my opinion. It's not like LeBron is playing at a 2012 level in these playoffs. He's been good for the most part but pretty bad at times, but for a player of LeBron's caliber, that's still better than most.

[livinglegend]

*Yawn* same posters crying about the Eastern Conference being weak, when its just a fact.

The Cavs without Love are still beating teams out east convincingly; worst conference of all-time by a long shot.

Lebron.

They beat former DPOY Noah, former MVP Rose, MIP Butler, former real FMVP Gasol, ROY candidate Mirotic, Solid bench player Gibson, former COY Thibodeau.

[KG215]

:sleeping

This conversation is boring. It is obvious most of you are butthurt. No real genuine comments in here.
Right, and your pro-East arguments are full of substance and genuineness.

:rolleyes:

[Leftimage]

whats if CLE wins the championship? It will shine very favorably on the whole conference... and to me it will show that records are deceiving and that both conferences are in fact not that far apart.

If EC contender gets blown out 4-0 or 5-1 with no close games in the finals, then yeah I might agree.

[plowking]

whats if CLE wins the championship? It will shine very favorably on the whole conference... and to me it will show that records are deceiving and that both conferences are in fact not that far apart.

If EC contender gets blown out 4-0 or 5-1 with no close games in the finals, then yeah I might agree.

Exactly.

If Cavs go on to win, then what?

They'd apparently get knocked out first round out West, but somehow they beat the champs? :oldlol:
The road would somehow be tougher? It is already tough enough without some of their best players playing or injured. If they beat the best out West with the injured players, they're clearly good enough.

The whole argument is backwards.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Again, it's not just about the West Teams being better, it's about the road to the Finals. The West beats each others brains in every year in route to a Finals , while East Teams generally coast to the finals with maybe one outta three Teams that actually makes it a series.

For instance, if Houston fights tooth and nail and actually manages to get past GSW, can you honestly say The Cavs and Rockets path to the Finals were equal in degree of difficulty? :coleman:
Well said; and fully agreed.

It's not about the finals per se, its the journey getting there. Fatigue, injuries, and whatnot takes a significant toll.

[ArbitraryWater]

The deep agenda here, the poor LeBron competition.... when Kobe has had it much easier, with more help, and playing on the better team in the finals more often than not... while getting free finals passes in '00-'02... and '09... irrelevant of what some may think, to win, you gotta beat the West's best anyway.

And again, this Hawks > any West team in '09.

[ArbitraryWater]

:eek:

Damn Arb, you gonna take this unwarranted beatdown?

okay dude.. those dangerous Aaron Brooks led Rockets man.... :bowdown: what a team... :bowdown: he so good went right to China to suceed in another continent.

you buy that bullshit? :oldlol:

[KG215]

The deep agenda here, the poor LeBron competition.... when Kobe has had it much easier, with more help, and playing on the better team in the finals more often than not... while getting free finals passes in '00-'02... and '09... irrelevant of what some may think, to win, you gotta beat the West's best anyway.

And again, this Hawks > any West team in '09.
They're not better than the '09 Nuggets. The 2009 Nuggets would have the best, and arguably two best, players in a series against the 2015 Hawks. Chauncey Billups played at a pretty high level in the 2009 playoffs.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

They're not better than the '09 Nuggets. The 2009 Nuggets would have the best, and arguably two best, players in a series against the 2015 Hawks. Chauncey Billups played at a pretty high level in the 2009 playoffs.

Been trying to tell Arb this, but apparently it hasn't been registering. :oldlol: Denver would've been the best team Cleveland faced this season assuming they don't make the finals; they're not the Knicks who were a vastly different team - coaching and depth being the prominent factors.

IMO, w/ the exception of 2004 and MAYBE 2005, the West has been >>> East since Shaq's Laker days.

[Bernkastel]

People still salty about the East. I really hope they win the title this year just to watch you guys panic :lol

[KG215]

Been trying to tell Arb this, but apparently it hasn't been registering. :oldlol: Denver would've been the best team Cleveland faced this season assuming they don't make the finals; they're not the Knicks who were a vastly different team - coaching and depth being the prominent factors.

IMO, w/ the exception of 2004 and MAYBE 2005, the West has been >>> East since Shaq's Laker days.
Yeah, Billups averaged 21-7-4 on great efficiency in the playoffs to go along with Carmelo's 27-6-4. I haven't seen anyone on the Hawks playing as well in these playoffs as Billups did in the '09 playoffs, and they sure as hell don't have anyone as good as Carmelo. The '09 had Nuggets J.R. averaging 15-3-3, Nene averaging 12-8-3, and Kenyon Martin averaging 11-6-2-1. After that they had three other players combining to average 21-11-2.

I'd take the 2009 Nuggets over the 2015 Hawks without thinking about it much. I'm not saying the 2009 Nuggets would sweep them or anything, but I think they're the better team and would win a series against this year's Hawks.

[Legends66NBA7]

- 3 teams with non-winning records making the playoffs
- #1 seed Atlanta being complete pretenders
- Cavs easily taking the East despite K. Love being out
- Chicago proved to be total pretenders


I mean damn, I think I might be witnessing the worst conference of all time.

No, because all you had to do was google search the 02/03 East. Were not witnessing the worst conference of all-time.

The end.

[HOoopCityJones]

Yeah, Billups averaged 21-7-4 on great efficiency in the playoffs to go along with Carmelo's 27-6-4. I haven't seen anyone on the Hawks playing as well in these playoffs as Billups did in the '09 playoffs, and they sure as hell don't have anyone as good as Carmelo. The '09 had Nuggets J.R. averaging 15-3-3, Nene averaging 12-8-3, and Kenyon Martin averaging 11-6-2-1. After that they had three other players combining to average 21-11-2.

I'd take the 2009 Nuggets over the 2015 Hawks without thinking about it much. I'm not saying the 2009 Nuggets would sweep them or anything, but I think they're the better team and would win a series against this year's Hawks.

He wasn't exactly in his prime, but Chauncey , prime Melo, Kenyon Martin who was still a Top player in the league, younger Nene and Jr Smith would be scary in this league today.

It's blatantly obvious AW doesn't know what the fucc he's talking about. :roll:

He just parrot talks after other posters who share his agenda.

[Legends66NBA7]

He wasn't exactly in his prime, but Chauncey , prime Melo, Kevin Martin who was still a Top player in the league, younger Nene and Jr Smith would be scary in this league today.

It's blatantly obvious AW doesn't know what the fucc he's talking about. :roll:

He just parrot talks after other posters who share his agenda.

That's Kenyon Martin not Kevin and he was always on and off with injuries; don't think he was top anything that season but was still very serviceable.

A lineup that featured Nene, Kenyon, and Birdman was formidable. Wish Camby was still there, would have won the chip thay year.

[KG215]

That's Kenyon Martin not Kevin and he was always on and off with injuries; don't think he was top anything that season but was still very serviceable.

A lineup that featured Nene, Kenyon, and Birdman was formidable. Wish Camby was still there, would have won the chip thay year.
Those numbers I postd were their playoff numbers. Martin missed some time in the regular season but he played all 16 playoff games at 34 MPG.

[Legends66NBA7]

Those numbers I postd were their playoff numbers. Martin missed some time in the regular season but he played all 16 playoff games at 34 MPG.

Oh I agree.

Just disagree with Hoops that Kenyon was a Top player that season.

[livinglegend]

He wasn't exactly in his prime, but Chauncey , prime Melo, Kevin Martin who was still a Top player in the league, younger Nene and Jr Smith would be scary in this league today.

It's blatantly obvious AW doesn't know what the fucc he's talking about. :roll:

He just parrot talks after other posters who share his agenda.

And you are saying that he doesnt know what he s talking about. :roll: :roll: :roll:

[Mr Feeny]

He wasn't exactly in his prime, but Chauncey , prime Melo, Kevin Martin who was still a Top player in the league, younger Nene and Jr Smith would be scary in this league today.

It's blatantly obvious AW doesn't know what the fucc he's talking about. :roll:

He just parrot talks after other posters who share his agenda.

Tbf I've had my run ins with A.W. and he's forgotten more about basketball than you've ever learned. Why are YOU of all people telling another poster he doesn't know what he's talking about? You're the joke of the forum:oldlol:

[pauk]

...or could it simply be Lebron is pretty damn good? Making great teams & players look worse than they are and making his team look better than they are?

But we dont like that option.... never did... not even after he would do it over and over again.... We just have to pretend the East is horribly weak and Lebron is a fluke that flukes every year... I like that option better...

[HOoopCityJones]

And you are saying that he doesnt know what he s talking about. :roll: :roll: :roll:


Find hollow victories in typos all you want. You're still wrong numb nuts. :lol

[KG215]

Oh I agree.

Just disagree with Hoops that Kenyon was a Top player that season.
Yeah, a Nene, Kenyon Martin, Chris Andersen frontcourt rotation at that time was pretty solid and very athletic. Like you said, just think if they still had Camby in tandem with Andersen swatting shots and protecting the rim? Andersen still managed to average 2 BPG in just 23 MPG in the playoffs.

[HOoopCityJones]

Tbf I've had my run ins with A.W. and he's forgotten more about basketball than you've ever learned. Why are YOU of all people telling another poster he doesn't know what he's talking about? You're the joke of the forum:oldlol:

Get the fucc outta here , everyone and their Mother knows you are AW. :roll:

You're a lame bro, I keep tellin you.

[Cocaine80s]

Bitching does nothing

Your trash teams wills continue to miss the playoffs in the west while the Beast Coast licks ur tears

[Mr Feeny]

Get the fucc outta here , everyone and their Mother knows you are AW. :roll:

You're a lame bro, I keep tellin you.

For the last time, you are welcome to do an I.P check. Just because multiple people share the same low opinion of you, it doesn't make them alts. The entire board considers you a joke.

[HOoopCityJones]

For the last time, you are welcome to do an I.P check. Just because multiple people share the same low opinion of you, it doesn't make them alts. The entire board considers you a joke.

Bro, I could give two shits about what a bunch of people I don't know personally or have ZERO impact on my life think of me. Yo ass live on here , this is the end all be all for you and that's the sad part. You talking about this place like it's some exclusive club. :biggums:

All you gotta do is turn your Modem on and off to change an Ip you slow bastard. :roll:

Ive never seen you two around at the same time, Ever.

[tpols]

He wasn't exactly in his prime, but Chauncey , prime Melo, Kenyon Martin who was still a Top player in the league, younger Nene and Jr Smith would be scary in this league today.

It's blatantly obvious AW doesn't know what the fucc he's talking about. :roll:

He just parrot talks after other posters who share his agenda.

Well yea .. he never saw any of it

For instance.. Aaron brooks in 2009 playoffs was better than 2015 rose. Shane batter and Ron Artest were like beefed up tony allens.. on the same team, and ahead of Jimmy butler. That rocket team was basically a souped up 2015 bulls. But if you didn't know any better and just started watching ball a few years ago you'd think LOL barrier and Artest and brooks.. bit they were twice as good in 2009 compared to recently.

[HOoopCityJones]

Well yea .. he never saw any of it

For instance.. Aaron brooks in 2009 playoffs was better than 2015 rose. Shane batter and Ron Artest were like beefed up tony allens.. on the same team, and ahead of Jimmy butler. That rocket team was basically a souped up 2015 bulls. But if you didn't know any better and just started watching ball a few years ago you'd think LOL barrier and Artest and brooks.. bit they were twice as good in 2009 compared to recently.



Exactly , Battier and Artest in 09 was an insane backcourt defensively. Better than Tmac woulda been if he was there, that's for sure. Between them and Brooks speed + shooting and Scola's post game they were two injured players away from stacked.

These ni99as are a bunch of kids, I say Kenyon Martin was still a Top player in 09 and ni99as come out the wood work like I said he was up for MVP consideration or something. :lol He was still a coveted player and any one of the best Teams back then would've loved to have him on a roster , including The Lakers.

[3ball]

- 3 teams with non-winning records making the playoffs
- #1 seed Atlanta being complete pretenders
- Cavs easily taking the East despite K. Love being out
- Chicago proved to be total pretenders


damn, I think I might be witnessing the worst conference of all time.


Why is this a surprise?.. The history record books will ostensibly prove that Lebron played the weakest competition for his entire career: in 12 seasons, he's only won 7 playoff series versus 50+ win teams.

That's pathetic.. Compare to Kobe, who defeated 24 such teams in playoffs from 1998-2010:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=332740


Of course MJ's playoff competition had also won far more games:

http://swishnba.files.wordpress.com/2014/06/opponent-team-records-in-the-playoffs1.jpg?w=648

[Legends66NBA7]

These ni99as are a bunch of kids, I say Kenyon Martin was still a Top player in 09 and ni99as come out the wood work like I said he was up for MVP consideration or something. :lol He was still a coveted player and any one of the best Teams back then would've loved to have him on a roster , including The Lakers.

Saying Kenyon Martin is a top coveted player is pretty vague, man. I don't remember many coveting for Kenyon back then because he was so injury prone, had a high salary, and had a problem with his coach in the past.

Yes, he can play well in more reduced playing time, but that's not really someone worth coveting.

[HOoopCityJones]

Why is this a surprise?.. The history record books will ostensibly prove that Lebron played the weakest competition for his entire career: in 12 seasons, he's only won 7 playoff series versus 50+ win teams.

That's pathetic.. Compare to Kobe, who defeated 24 such teams in playoffs from 1998-2010:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=332740


Of course MJ's playoff competition had also won far more games:

http://swishnba.files.wordpress.com/2014/06/opponent-team-records-in-the-playoffs1.jpg?w=648

http://i.imgur.com/JK0p4j3.gif

[HOoopCityJones]

Saying Kenyon Martin is a top coveted player is pretty vague, man. I don't remember many coveting for Kenyon back then because he was so injury prone, had a high salary, and had a problem with his coach in the past.

Yes, he can play well in more reduced playing time, but that's not really someone worth coveting.

Dude was still a good player, that's all I meant. I think he was on The Clippers and NY after that but nothing like his New Jersey and Denver days. That Nuggets Team was good , bottom line.

[Legends66NBA7]

Dude was still a good player, that's all I meant. I think he was on The Clippers and NY after that but nothing like his New Jersey and Denver days. That Nuggets Team was good , bottom line.

Yeah, I agree with that. It's too bad they didn't keep that team around longer.

[HOoopCityJones]

Yeah, I agree with that. It's too bad they didn't keep that team around longer.

When did Chauncey tear his Achilles? Was it before or after he went to the Clips? I think that started the entire down trend tbh. Melo was already pining for Ny by 2010.

[VengefulAngel]

This doesn't mean shit if the Cav's beat GSW.

[LiLharvard]

Warriors competition this year:
Pelicans
Grizzlies (Fvcked by injuries)
Rockets (Dwight injured)

They got it pretty easy too


+ montejunas + pat beverliegh + rick adleman

[Legends66NBA7]

When did Chauncey tear his Achilles? Was it before or after he went to the Clips? I think that started the entire down trend tbh. Melo was already pining for Ny by 2010.

During his Clippers tenure but he was on the downhill by then. He had about 1 good season left if he remained a starter on another team and didn't tear it.

[ArbitraryWater]

*thinks Kevin Martin played for the '09 Nuggets and not Kenyon Martin, calls others out for not watching at the time*

:roll: :roll: :roll:

And oh, me and Feeny hated each other pretty hard here lol... thats just pathetic to try and mark him as my alt now.

The East has been better pretty easily than the West from 2009-2011, just more top teams you needed to go through. 2008 is pretty equal top heavy wise, same for 2012.

[Legends66NBA7]

No one would be saying "Bulls" are pretenders if Bron didn't hit that GW.

Bulls were extremely overrated this season, regardless of that GW.

[HOoopCityJones]

Bulls were extremely overrated this season, regardless of that GW.

Offense was absolutely atrocious.

[HOoopCityJones]

*thinks Kevin Martin played for the '09 Nuggets and not Kenyon Martin, calls others out for not watching at the time*

:roll: :roll: :roll:

And oh, me and Feeny hated each other pretty hard here lol... thats just pathetic to try and mark him as my alt now.

The East has been better pretty easily than the West from 2009-2011, just more top teams you needed to go through. 2008 is pretty equal top heavy wise, same for 2012.

Difference between me and you, skid mark, I don't have tabs open to Real
gm and Basketball Reference trying to fake my knowledge , I speak straight from the memory. The Kevin Martin thing was a typo, but hang your hat on that all you want, because you don't have an actual point to make aside from echoing shit you see other people say. Between this account and The Feeny one, you almost have as many posts as a Rich man's bank account savings, yet you broke. Think about that. :applause:

[dunksby]

Difference between me and you, skid mark, I don't have tabs open to Real
gm and Basketball Reference trying to fake my knowledge , I speak straight from the memory. The Kevin Martin thing was a typo, but hang your hat on that all you want, because you don't have an actual point to make aside from echoing shit you see other people say. Between this account and The Feeny one, you almost have as many posts as a Rich man's bank account savings, yet you broke. Think about that. :applause:
http://www.tinygif.com/data/media/9/bird_in_awe.gif