Actual Footage Of LeBron Surpassing MJ [Archive] - Message Board Basketball Forum

DonDadda59

05-21-2015, 04:36 PM

Jordan retired during his prime and still won more 3 times as many rings as Bran.

Pretty much the only reason any of his records/accomplishments are even within reach of the pretenders who've come since him.

If he hadn't stepped away during the height of his powers, Bean wouldn't have passed him in career points and Bron would've taken a few more seasons to get close to his Pauk record.

We're talking about him leaving 2 championships, 2 finals MVPs, 1 or 2 season MVPs, 2 scoring titles, about 4,500 regular season points on the table.

Rose'sACL

05-21-2015, 04:41 PM

Pretty much the only reason any of his records/accomplishments are even within reach of the pretenders who've come since him.

If he hadn't stepped away during the height of his powers, Bean wouldn't have passed him in career points and Bron would've taken a few more seasons to get close to his Pauk record.

We're talking about him leaving 2 championships, 2 finals MVPs, 1 or 2 season MVPs, 2 scoring titles, about 4,500 regular season points on the table.
well, that is a big stretch.

warriorfan

05-21-2015, 04:43 PM

well, that is a big stretch.

It's not really far fetched imo

DonDadda59

05-21-2015, 04:44 PM

well, that is a big stretch.

How do you figure? In '94 they had the same team that won the championship but would've had a much better bench with Kukoc, Longley, and Kerr joining the squad. Look at what happened when those guys were on the squad and Jordan was back to 100%... they won 72, 69 games and championships.

What reason is there to believe that an improved '93 squad with a 100% Jordan doesn't win the championship? :confusedshrug:

ImKobe

05-21-2015, 04:46 PM

well, that is a big stretch.

Big stretch? 93 MJ was putting up 41/8/6 in the Finals...dude retired at the PEAK of his career. That MJ you saw from 95-98 was a shell of his former self.

Rose'sACL

05-21-2015, 04:49 PM

Big stretch? 93 MJ was putting up 41/8/6 in the Finals...dude retired at the PEAK of his career. That MJ you saw from 95-98 was a shell of his former self.
why should i believe that jordan would also win in 96, 97 and 98 if he wins in 94 and 95?
first of all it would take a really big physcial toll on him just winning 4 in a row in 94 but then you tell me that he will keep playing and win in 95, 96, 97, 98.
how is that not a reach? are you guys brainwashed?
so the guy would go the the finals 8 year in a row without any break in between and win all those finals. this is why i believe that Jordan is both the GOAT and at the same time overrated. it is only possible because of guys like you.

ImKobe

05-21-2015, 04:57 PM

why should i believe that jordan would also win in 96, 97 and 98 if he wins in 94 and 95?
first of all it would take a really big physcial toll on him just winning 4 in a row in 94 but then you tell me that he will keep playing and win in 95, 96, 97, 98.
how is that not a reach? are you guys brainwashed?
so the guy would go the the finals 8 year in a row without any break in between and win all those finals. this is why i believe that Jordan is both the GOAT and at the same time overrated. it is only possible because of guys like you.

are you kidding me? Jordan transitioned into a post-player and Pippen was pretty much exclusively the facilitator during most of the 2nd 3-peat...Jordan's efficiency and assists went down even with the retirement, he was still very effective despite shooting a lot more jump shots.

94 Bulls without MJ won 55 games alone and should have made the ECF but got robbed, you add MJ to that roster and they win easily.

Point is, MJ would have more scoring titles, definitely another MVP and at least one more title if he didn't piss away two seasons with the retirement.

Cold soul

05-21-2015, 04:59 PM

MJ the superior player in almost every aspect of the game over Lebron. This era is one weakest in several decades Lebron impact is somewhat overrated.

Rose'sACL

05-21-2015, 05:01 PM

are you kidding me? Jordan transitioned into a post-player and Pippen was pretty much exclusively the facilitator during most of the 2nd 3-peat...Jordan's efficiency and assists went down even with the retirement, he was still very effective despite shooting a lot more jump shots.

94 Bulls without MJ won 55 games alone and should have made the ECF but got robbed, you add MJ to that roster and they win easily.

Point is, MJ would have more scoring titles, definitely another MVP and at least one more title if he didn't piss away two seasons with the retirement.
who give a fck about MVPs or scoring title? my post clearly talked about rings. Dondadda said that jordan would have 100% won 2 more rings if he didn't leave for nearly 2 years.
my post is about 8 rings in a row and not whether he would have won in 95 or 94. do idiots here not realize the toll on the body when you go to 8 straight finals while being you team's best scorer?

Hey Yo

05-21-2015, 05:04 PM

How do you figure? In '94 they had the same team that won the championship but would've had a much better bench with Kukoc, Longley, and Kerr joining the squad. Look at what happened when those guys were on the squad and Jordan was back to 100%... they won 72, 69 games and championships.

What reason is there to believe that an improved '93 squad with a 100% Jordan doesn't win the championship? :confusedshrug:
They were on the 95 postseason Bulls team (minus Grant) and they still lost to Orlando in the 2nd round.

DonDadda59

05-21-2015, 05:10 PM

They were on the 95 postseason Bulls team (minus Grant) and they still lost to Orlando in the 2nd round.

Kind of a big minus there :oldlol:

The Bulls struggled to maintain a .500 record after Grant/before Jordan led them to a 13-4 record. And Jordan only played a relative handful of games that season. It was obvious to anyone watching he wasn't his usual self.

With a full off-season to get back in basketball shape and with the Bulls actually replacing Grant... what happened?

Exactly.

Hey Yo

05-21-2015, 05:11 PM

who give a fck about MVPs or scoring title? my post clearly talked about rings. Dondadda said that jordan would have 100% won 2 more rings if he didn't leave for nearly 2 years.
my post is about 8 rings in a row and not whether he would have won in 95 or 94. do idiots here not realize the toll on the body when you go to 8 straight finals while being you team's best scorer?
Obviously not.

That's why I chuckle when I see people say LeBron is in his prime right now at age 30, even though this is his 12th consecutive season as the teams 1st scoring option and play maker.

kamil

05-21-2015, 05:18 PM

LOL, yeah, as if this one insignificant stat puts LeCollusion and his asterisk rings ahead of MJ in general.

LeBron* stans are hilarious. Talk about cherry picking.

Rose'sACL

05-21-2015, 05:20 PM

Kind of a big minus there :oldlol:

The Bulls struggled to maintain a .500 record after Grant/before Jordan led them to a 13-4 record. And Jordan only played a relative handful of games that season. It was obvious to anyone watching he wasn't his usual self.

With a full off-season to get back in basketball shape and with the Bulls actually replacing Grant... what happened?

Exactly.
you still haven't told me how jordan would deal with physical and mental fatigue of going to 8 straight finals and on top of that he would have to win all of them.
He was clearly mentally fatigued in 93 when he took a vacation to give a chance to his hobby of baseball to freshen up his mind just like people normally go hiking on vacations(at least i do).

DonDadda59

05-21-2015, 05:24 PM

you still haven't told me how jordan would deal with physical and mental fatigue of going to 8 straight finals and on top of that he would have to win all of them.
He was clearly mentally fatigued in 93 when he took a vacation to give a chance to his hobby of baseball to freshen up his mind just like people normally go hiking on vacations(at least i do).

That or he was dealing with the trauma of his father having just been murdered :confusedshrug:

And it wasn't like he went on vacation and sat around eating ice cream all day. He spent his time trying to make it into another professional level sport.

Hey Yo

05-21-2015, 05:25 PM

Kind of a big minus there :oldlol:

The Bulls struggled to maintain a .500 record after Grant/before Jordan led them to a 13-4 record. And Jordan only played a relative handful of games that season. It was obvious to anyone watching he wasn't his usual self.

With a full off-season to get back in basketball shape and with the Bulls actually replacing Grant... what happened?

Exactly.
You're the one who brought the 96, 97 and 98 seasons which were obviously w/o Grant and how well they would do with the other additions you mentioned. I said they had Kukoc, Kerr and Longley and still lost in 95'. Jordan replacing Myers in the starting lineup shouldn't have been enough to over come the loss of Grant?

Jordan played like 17 reg. season games and dropped 50 at MSG against a pretty good Knicks sqaud before that postseason. But once they got bounced by Orlando, he all of a sudden wasn't 100%...:rolleyes:

Beastmode88

05-21-2015, 05:27 PM

Can we compare the top 10 teams mj has beat vs and 10 top team lebron has beat? :sleeping

Rose'sACL

05-21-2015, 05:30 PM

That or he was dealing with the trauma of his father having just been murdered :confusedshrug:

And it wasn't like he went on vacation and sat around eating ice cream all day. He spent his time trying to make it into another professional level sport.
it was a tier-2 league of an american sport. Mental fatigue is all about feshening up your mind by doing something different. i don't like to sit at my home or a beach for more than a day if i have a long vacation. i go on really tough treks.
i am laugh when people say that jordan might have won 8 in a row but i did laugh when you wrote that he would have definitely won 2 more finals and 2 more FMVP if he didn't leave for 2 years.
if lebron took 2014 off and went to play in the d-league, it would be considered a vacation for him.

bond10

05-21-2015, 05:32 PM

Inflated numbers. Dude hasn't had legit competition in Eastern Conference in the past 3 years (last time was Celtics trio and DRose Bulls...every year playoffs were so boring to watch cause of zero competition).

DonDadda59

05-21-2015, 05:32 PM

You're the one who brought the 96, 97 and 98 seasons which were obviously w/o Grant and how well they would do with the other additions you mentioned. I said they had Kukoc, Kerr and Longley and still lost in 95'. Jordan replacing Myers in the starting lineup shouldn't have been enough to over come the loss of Grant?

Because they lost their all star PF and had no real replacement. When they did actually replace him, they set the NBA record for wins.

Jordan played like 17 reg. season games and dropped 50 at MSG against a pretty good Knicks sqaud before that postseason. But once they got bounced by Orlando, he all of a sudden wasn't 100%...:rolleyes:

His shooting numbers in '95 were comparable to his Wizards run... where he also had a few 40 and 50 point games. He clearly wasn't anywhere near 100% when he first came back without any time to get into basketball shape or get used to his new teammates. Anyone who tries to argue against that is an idiot, plain and simple.

Again... when he finally did get back to full form... what happened?

Im Still Ballin

05-21-2015, 05:34 PM

Jordan was great at playing well on already great teams but he was mediocre at elevating terrible teams.

bond10

05-21-2015, 05:36 PM

you still haven't told me how jordan would deal with physical and mental fatigue of going to 8 straight finals and on top of that he would have to win all of them.
He was clearly mentally fatigued in 93 when he took a vacation to give a chance to his hobby of baseball to freshen up his mind just like people normally go hiking on vacations(at least i do).

Are you kidding me? Nobody knows the real reason he retired, the headline read that he went to play baseball as a tribute to his father or whatever. Mental fatigue my ass, he was ready for the 99 season for a 7th title if the dumbass GM didn't implode the team.

DonDadda59

05-21-2015, 05:37 PM

it was a tier-2 league of an american sport.

A sport he hadn't played since childhood... and he was competing against guys trying to make the MLB.

Not like he was playing rec league level baseball or some random softball league just to pass the time.

i am laugh when people say that jordan might have won 8 in a row but i did laugh when you wrote that he would have definitely won 2 more finals and 2 more FMVP if he didn't leave for 2 years.

You are laugh all you want, but there's no reason to think the Bulls wouldn't win at least 1 but probably 2. And Jordan most definitely wins 1 or 2 MVPs, definitely wins 2 scoring titles, and definitely scores at least 4,500 more regular season points and maybe another 900 playoff points.

if lebron took 2014 off and went to play in the d-league, it would be considered a vacation for him.

Because he's a basketball player, I would hope he'd do well in the D-League. :oldlol:

Dragonyeuw

05-21-2015, 05:37 PM

I think the Bulls win at least 4 in a row including 94, Jordan would still be in his prime, 94 Pip was a beast, improved B.J and Grant, plus rookie Kukoc?! That could have been the best of the Bulls championship squads. Assuming Jordan doesn't retire, I can see 95 Rockets still winning with such a weak bulls frontline assuming they got past Orlando. Grant's missing interior rebounding and defense would have made for an uphill battle even if MJ hadn't taken a year off. And IMHO Hakeem in 95 likely matches 95 MJ's 'greatness' whether he retired or not, so after Pippen and Drexler it comes down to the Rockets having superior roleplayers.

I can see an 'off' year in 95, with 96-98 Bulls 3peat still occurring or at worst, they're burnt out completely in 98( as it was Pacers took them to the brink in the ECFs) and win 96 and 97. Either way, I still say they wind up with minimum 6 rings, possibly 7.

ImKobe

05-21-2015, 05:37 PM

it was a tier-2 league of an american sport. Mental fatigue is all about feshening up your mind by doing something different. i don't like to sit at my home or a beach for more than a day if i have a long vacation. i go on really tough treks.
i am laugh when people say that jordan might have won 8 in a row but i did laugh when you wrote that he would have definitely won 2 more finals and 2 more FMVP if he didn't leave for 2 years.
if lebron took 2014 off and went to play in the d-league, it would be considered a vacation for him.

what is this bullshit?

Jordan wins 8 in a row because he has the GOAT coach, system and the right teammates around him, he isn't going to lose because he's "mentally fatigued". His father happened to die and he played baseball in honor of his dad, this has nothing to do with his mentality to win when on the basketball court.

If Lebron played in the D-league, he'd still be playing basketball, Jordan wasn't playing basketball during that time.

You can't just waltz into a middle of an NBA season with no off-season training and expect to be on the same level both physically and mentally, other guys have battled all year, 20 games wasn't enough for him to get ready and Bulls lost Grant Hill, who happened to be a very impactful player at the time.

What happened the next year, when they replaced Grant and Jordan had a full off-season to get ready?

nnn123

05-21-2015, 05:39 PM

Playoff games of 35/5/5:

Michael Jordan: 34
LeBron James: 20

Playoff games of 40/5/5:

Michael Jordan: 16
LeBron James: 10

DonDadda59

05-21-2015, 05:43 PM

Playoff games of 35/5/5:

Michael Jordan: 34
LeBron James: 20

Playoff games of 40/5/5:

Michael Jordan: 16
LeBron James: 10

Funny how arbitrary stat cutoffs work :oldlol:

I love how ESPN has these idiots thinking that 30-5-5 is some magic barometer.

Beastmode88

05-21-2015, 05:43 PM

Jordan was great at playing well on already great teams but he was mediocre at elevating terrible teams.

name lebron's top 10 opposition please.

Beastmode88

05-21-2015, 05:44 PM

Playoff games of 35/5/5:

Michael Jordan: 34
LeBron James: 20

Playoff games of 40/5/5:

Michael Jordan: 16
LeBron James: 10

http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/kevin-garnett-reaction.gif

Rose'sACL

05-21-2015, 05:44 PM

Are you kidding me? Nobody knows the real reason he retired, the headline read that he went to play baseball as a tribute to his father or whatever. Mental fatigue my ass, he was ready for the 99 season for a 7th title if the dumbass GM didn't implode the team.
yes, everything favoring MJ in the news was the truth but normal logic that leading your team in scoring while going to 8 finals and winning them takes a huge toll on the body is just a lie made up by humans who can't understand michael jordan. stop watching so many 90s gatorade commercials.
jordan would have most probably won in 94 at most then lost in 95, won in 96,97 and retired after that. leaving your job because your father got murdered is a sign of mental weakness. almost everyone continues going to their job after something like that happens to them. it is a sad thing but you don't retire because of it unless you really need to freshen up your mind by indulging in your hobby.

the fact is that MJ's father got murdered. Normal logic says that it takes a lot of toll on your body if go to 8 straight finals while being the team's best scorer and best player. you guys clearly don't know what logic means.

MJ even said that he was bored of basketball which is the definition of mental fatigue.

Im Still Ballin

05-21-2015, 05:45 PM

You can't compare stats and opponents from the Illegal defense era to now

Defenses are just so much more sophisticated and adaptable today

Beastmode88

05-21-2015, 05:46 PM

You can't compare stats and opponents from the Illegal defense era to now

Defenses are just so much more sophisticated and adaptable today

https://vine.co/v/OjWXqqhQV1l
:hammerhead: :hammerhead: :hammerhead: :hammerhead:

Im Still Ballin

05-21-2015, 05:49 PM

This is why you are a terrible poster with no individual identity beastmode

DonDadda59

05-21-2015, 05:49 PM

You can't compare stats and opponents from the Illegal defense era to now

Defenses are just so much more sophisticated and adaptable today

:oldlol:

Have Boris Diaw standing 5 feet away from Jordan at all times as your 'defense' and he averages 50 without breaking a sweat.

Hey Yo

05-21-2015, 05:52 PM

Because they lost their all star PF and had no real replacement. When they did actually replace him, they set the NBA record for wins
Replaced him with an all-NBA 1st team defender and current (at the time) 4x rebounding champion. Plus the wins were inflated due to expansion teams Vancouver and Toronto.

His shooting numbers in '95 were comparable to his Wizards run... where he also had a few 40 and 50 point games. He clearly wasn't anywhere near 100% when he first came back without any time to get into basketball shape or get used to his new teammates. Anyone who tries to argue against that is an idiot, plain and simple.

Again... when he finally did get back to full form... what happened?
Comparable to the Wiz days :oldlol: He avg 31ppg against Orlando.

If he was no where near 100% then why didn't Phil do something if it was so obvious? Why not scale back his minutes? Why have MJ avg. 12 more FGA per game than Pippen while avg only 1 more MPG than Pippen in that series?

Im Still Ballin

05-21-2015, 05:56 PM

Modern defenses are tailor-fit to the opposing individual talent

Your fault here don as usual is that you are trying to break down San Antonio's defense by singling out the man defender, when in-fact the difference between the Illegal defense era and today is team defense/help defense. Don't be so biased and closed-minded. For Jordan they'd most likely use a different defensive scheme... Since Jordan didn't have Lebron's strength he is going to get caught in the key a lot. They will just push him baseline, funnel him away.

Hey Yo

05-21-2015, 05:56 PM

Beastmode88

05-21-2015, 05:58 PM

Qutting twice, with a chance to 4peat, is pretty bad on one's resume'

you're the only one that thinks jordan quit on his team post 3peat. dude delivered 6 rings and you hate on him cause he didn't get you 8? :kobe:

DonDadda59

05-21-2015, 05:59 PM

Replaced him with an all-NBA 1st team defender and current (at the time) 4x rebounding champion.

Who could barely score 5 PPG. Why didn't the Spurs or the Lakers see such a dramatic improvement when Rodman joined their squads (especially a younger Rodman in SA)? But he was still at least a real replacement for the loss of their PF.

Comparable to the Wiz days :oldlol: He avg 31ppg against Orlando.

He shot 41% in the 17 regular season games he was back.

And he had uncharacteristic lapses in the Orlando series- key series affecting TOs and general sloppy play that might not show up in the stats. But anyone who saw him play knew that wasn't Jordan anywhere near 100%.

But like I keep pointing out but you seem to keep glossing over... what happened when he had a full off-season to get back into basketball shape and get used to his new teammates?

If he was no where near 100% then why didn't Phil do something if it was so obvious? Why not scale back his minutes? Why have MJ avg. 12 more FGA per game than Pippen while avg only 1 more MPG than Pippen in that series?

What was Phil supposed to do, somehow Quantum Leap back to '93 and swap that Jordan with baseball Jordan? :oldlol:

ZMonkey11

05-21-2015, 06:01 PM

Is this one of those times you can say empty stats?

DonDadda59

05-21-2015, 06:02 PM

Modern defenses are tailor-fit to the opposing individual talent

Right... Boris Diaw 5 feet away from you at all times is 'tailor-fit to opposing individual talent'.

So that makes the Jordan Rules what exactly?

Your fault here don as usual is that you are trying to break down San Antonio's defense by singling out the man defender, when in-fact the difference between the Illegal defense era and today is team defense/help defense. Don't be so biased and closed-minded. For Jordan they'd most likely use a different defensive scheme... Since Jordan didn't have Lebron's strength he is going to get caught in the key a lot. They will just push him baseline, funnel him away.

:oldlol:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WpkXlrJxtw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3osYhb4ro0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5K-qGWkiKvQ

Mr. Jabbar

05-21-2015, 06:09 PM

actual footage of lebron saying good bye to the top 10 forever

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view/1066310/lebron-decision-2010-o.gif

Hey Yo

05-21-2015, 06:11 PM

you're the only one that thinks jordan quit on his team post 3peat. dude delivered 6 rings and you hate on him cause he didn't get you 8? :kobe:
How can it be called a retirement when he went on to try to be the next Bo Jackson and was on the road constantly?

kamil

05-21-2015, 06:11 PM

Comparable to the Wiz days :oldlol: He avg 31ppg against Orlando.

If he was no where near 100% then why didn't Phil do something if it was so obvious? Why not scale back his minutes? Why have MJ avg. 12 more FGA per game than Pippen while avg only 1 more MPG than Pippen in that series?

So that an insignificant peasant like yourself could cry about it online 20 years later.

diamenz

05-21-2015, 06:16 PM

actual footage of lebron saying good bye to the top 10 forever

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view/1066310/lebron-decision-2010-o.gif

it's as simple as this.

Hey Yo

05-21-2015, 06:29 PM

Who could barely score 5 PPG. Why didn't the Spurs or the Lakers see such a dramatic improvement when Rodman joined their squads (especially a younger Rodman in SA)? But he was still at least a real replacement for the loss of their PF.
Rodman's first year with SA they improved by 6 games. He won the rebounding title (with D. Rob on team) plus was all defense 2nd team. The following year they won 62 games, (13 game improvement from the year before Rodman signed on) All nba 3rd team defense.

With the Lakers he only played 23games.

He shot 41% in the 17 regular season games he was back.

And he had uncharacteristic lapses in the Orlando series- key series affecting TOs and general sloppy play that might not show up in the stats. But anyone who saw him play knew that wasn't Jordan anywhere near 100%.

But like I keep pointing out but you seem to keep glossing over... what happened when he had a full off-season to get back into basketball shape and get used to his new teammates?
They 3peated. Still no excuse for losing in the second round when you're replacing Pete Myers in the starting lineup and dropping 40 and 50 in the reg. season, then 31ppg against Orlando that series.

What was Phil supposed to do, somehow Quantum Leap back to '93 and swap that Jordan with baseball Jordan? :oldlol:
Why have him carry so much offense if he was "clearly" not his old self??

DonDadda59

05-21-2015, 06:41 PM

Rodman's first year with SA they improved by 6 games. He won the rebounding title (with D. Rob on team) plus was all defense 2nd team. The following year they won 62 games, (13 game improvement from the year before Rodman signed on) All nba 3rd team defense.

He only in 49 games in '95 (started only 26) when they won 62. Spurs won 59 games just after he left.

With the Lakers he only played 23games.

See above about his second season with SA. First season with the Bulls he played 64 games (started 57), the second he played 55. They won 72 and 69 respectively.

Dennis obviously is a positive on any squad, but he gets entirely way too much credit for what happened in Chicago.

They 3peated. Still no excuse for losing in the second round when you're replacing Pete Myers in the starting lineup and dropping 40 and 50 in the reg. season, then 31ppg against Orlando that series.

The Bulls were 34-31 (having gone on a mini win streak) when Jordan came back. They were on pace to miss the playoffs. They obviously weren't the same team with Grant gone. They had no PF. And Jordan was clearly not fully back.

When they addressed those issues, they went on a Historic run. Don't know why this is so hard for you to grasp. :confusedshrug:

Why have him carry so much offense if he was "clearly" not his old self??

Because he was still by far their best offensive option... just clearly not what he had been last time he was in the playoffs.

Again, when he was back to 100%... you know what happened.

warriorfan

05-21-2015, 06:43 PM

If MJ got to play with hand checking not allowed he would have more 35-5-5 games than LeBron's 30-5-5 games. :oldlol:

raprap

05-21-2015, 06:44 PM

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/5-21-2015/ut8MaV.gif

:applause:
:eek:

Da_Realist

05-21-2015, 10:34 PM

He only in 49 games in '95 (started only 26) when they won 62. Spurs won 59 games just after he left.

See above about his second season with SA. First season with the Bulls he played 64 games (started 57), the second he played 55. They won 72 and 69 respectively.

Dennis obviously is a positive on any squad, but he gets entirely way too much credit for what happened in Chicago.

MJ played all 82 games from 96-98. The Bulls won 72, 69 and 62 games.

1996
Without Pippen = 5-0
Without Rodman = 15-3
Without Pippen and Rodman = 2-0

1997
Without Pippen = 0-0
Without Rodman = 21-6
Without Pippen and Rodman = 0-0

1998
Without Pippen = 26-12
Without Rodman = 2-0
Without Pippen and Rodman = 0-0

1996-1998
Without Pippen = 31-12
Without Rodman = 38-9
Without Pippen and Rodman = 2-0

DonDadda59

05-21-2015, 10:57 PM

MJ played all 82 games from 96-98. The Bulls won 72, 69 and 62 games.

1996
Without Pippen = 5-0
Without Rodman = 15-3
Without Pippen and Rodman = 2-0

1997
Without Pippen = 0-0
Without Rodman = 21-6
Without Pippen and Rodman = 0-0

1998
Without Pippen = 26-12
Without Rodman = 2-0
Without Pippen and Rodman = 0-0

1996-1998
Without Pippen = 31-12
Without Rodman = 38-9
Without Pippen and Rodman = 2-0

:applause:

Roundball_Rock

05-21-2015, 11:18 PM

:oldlol: at Rodman getting diminished too now. There is a reason the Bulls were desperate enough to gamble on Rodman after the 95' season. He was so toxic at that point that all the Spurs could get in exchange for him was a backup center (Will Perdue). Rodman's defense and rebounding was crucial in the Bulls going from a contender (they were 13-4 with MJ in 95') to dominance. Without Rodman Chicago definitely would not have won in 97' or 98' (Rodman defended Malone) and would have been unlikely to do so in 96' against Seattle.

The Bulls needed a PF to play defense and rebound to succeed. The Bulls actually declined more when they lost Horace Grant than when they lost Jordan. The same Grant who put that deficiency on stark display in the 95' ECSF. You are hard pressed to win a championship when your top rebounders are your SF and SG.

DonDadda59

05-21-2015, 11:23 PM

:oldlol: at Rodman getting diminished. There is a reason the Bulls were desperate enough to gamble on Rodman after the 95' season.

The reason being that they didn't have a real PF after losing Horace. :confusedshrug:

Obviously he was usually a positive for whatever team he was on. But his impact is grossly overrated by some here. He was 35 when the Bulls got him and he had injury issues when Chi was putting up Historic win totals (after the Spurs won 62 with him missing a huge chunk of that season... then winning 59 right after he left).