Here's how Lebron's current supporting cast compares to MJ's and GS

[3ball]

Pippen > Kyrie

Grant = Thompson

Cartwright = Mosgov

Paxson < JR Smith

BJ Armstrong < Shumpert


Seriously, tell me what matchup I'm wrong about... Lebron's supporting cast is equivalent - here's how it compares to GS:


Kyrie > Klay

Thompson < Green

Shumpert = Iggy

JR Smith > Barnes

Mosgov > Bogut (just look at their stats - prime Bogut is LONG GONE)


2015 Per-100 Possession Stats:

Mosgov: 22.1 PPG, 14.5 RPG, 2.5 BLK
Bogut:.. 13.0 PPG, 16.5 RPG, 3.5 BLK

[Nikola_]

lebron > jordan

[Lebron23]

Put Lebron with the 1990's Chicago Bulls. And they are capable of winning multiple NBA titles.

[swagga]

Pippen > Kyrie

Grant = Thompson

Cartwright = Mosgov

Paxson < JR Smith

BJ Armstrong < Shumpert


Seriously, tell me what matchup I'm wrong about... Lebron's supporting cast is equivalent - here's how it compares to GS:


Kyrie > Klay

Thompson < Green

Shumpert = Iggy

JR Smith > Barnes

Mosgov > Bogut (just look at their stats - prime Bogut is LONG GONE)


2015 Per-100 Possession Stats:

Mosgov: 22.1 PPG, 14.5 RPG, 2.5 BLK
Bogut:.. 13.0 PPG, 16.5 RPG, 3.5 BLK

dude please post more you crack me up :lol :lol :lol :lol

how would you rate wilt per possession tbh?

[Lensanity]

Pippen >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kyrie

[PJR]

LeBron has 3Ball completely shook. Shit is comedy bro. :lol

[rzp]

LoL insecure MJ fans

[J Shuttlesworth]

MJ fans literally comparing the Cavs with a hobbled Kyrie, and no Kevin Love to Golden State, a 67 win team, at full strength :roll: :roll:

They are so shook that when MJ had a comparable cast to this one, he went 1-9

[BigBoss]

Kobe.

[Trollsmasher]

MJ fans literally comparing the Cavs with a hobbled Kyrie, and no Kevin Love to Golden State, a 67 win team, at full strength :roll: :roll:

They are so shook that when MJ had a comparable cast to this one, he went 1-9
rat poison

[3ball]

LeBron has 3Ball completely shook. Shit is comedy bro. :lol


Why would I be shook?

Lebron faces less defenders on the strongside than previous era players - that locks it up right there.. That ALONE lets me know that MJ's massive statistical advantage over Lebron is legit - and it would be even greater if MJ played today (obviously, his stats would be even better against strongsides that have less defenders).

In addition to the porous strongside defense caused by weakside floor-spreaders, the bans on paint-camping and hand-checking "open up the game" for perimeter players, as the league intended (http://www.nba.com/2009/news/features/04/09/stujackson/index.html).

Like, these things are all FACT - the hand-checking ban, the paint-camping ban, and the spacing/porous strongsides......... :confusedshrug: .... no reason to be shook
.

[Kvnzhangyay]

Why would I be shook?

Lebron faces less defenders on the strongside than previous era players - that locks it up right there - that ALONE lets me know the massive statistical gap between MJ and Lebron is indeed valid - and it would be even greater if MJ played today (obviously, his stats would be even better against strongsides that have less defenders on them).

In addition to the porous strongside defense caused by weakside floor-spreaders, the bans on paint-camping and hand-checking "open up the game" for perimeter players, as the league intended (http://www.nba.com/2009/news/features/04/09/stujackson/index.html).

Like, these things are all FACT - the hand-checking, the paint-camping, and the spacing/porous strongsides......... :confusedshrug: .... no reason to be shook

The fact that you responded to that post and had to make such a long post means you are

[PJR]

Shook.

If Bran goes to on to lead this cast of Knickaliers with a hobbled Irving, and no Kevin Love, it'll be a more impressive feat than that of any of Jordan's 6 title runs.

You better start praying.

[3ball]

it'll be a more impressive feat than that of any of Jordan's 6 title runs.


Haha, no way.. It's not better than MJ carrying the Bulls against the 1998 Utah Jazz and their 100.3 defensive rating (better than anything Lebron ever faced in the Finals), WHILE BOTH Pippen (15 PPG on 41%) and Rodman (8.3 RPG) were MIA..

Sorry, Lebron can't do that.

Nor could he top MJ carrying the Bulls to victory in the 1991 (despite not having any all-stars on his team) by averaging 33 PPG and 12 APG - Lebron will never come anywhere NEAR these numbers.. For his entire career, Lebron only averages 27.9 PPG and 6 APG in the playoffs, compared to 35 PPG and 7 APG for MJ thru the same age (30).

[PJR]

Golden State by all the objective pieces of information is one of the greatest teams of all time. They are a team that holds the number 1 offense and defense, and have the league MVP.


Like I said, it would be a better feat than ANY of Jordan's title runs (should James play great in the series, and they win )

Any.

[LAZERUSS]

Lebron's career, as great as he has been, is still nowhere near as great as Jordan's.

Having said that, if, and this is a big IF, LBJ were to take this team, with an injured Kyrie, to a title, it would be one of the greatest accomplishments ever for a GOAT candidate.

I suspect that when James retires he will be ranked in the untouchable six tier (Wilt, MJ, Magic, Kareem, and Russell.)

[ImKobe]

WS/48 leaders on the 2014-15 Cleveland Cavaliers

1. Kyrie Irving .205
2. Tristan Thompson .193
3. J.R Smith .190
4. Lebron James .166
5. Iman Shumpert .163

Lebron is 10th on his own team in Playoffs TS%.
Lebron is 4th on his own team in offensive winshares
Lebron is 5th on his own team in FG%, but takes 10.5 more shots a game than his 2nd option

[LAZERUSS]

WS/48 leaders on the 2014-15 Cleveland Cavaliers

1. Kyrie Irving .205
2. Tristan Thompson .193
3. J.R Smith .190
4. Lebron James .166
5. Iman Shumpert .163

Lebron is 10th on his own team in Playoffs TS%.
Lebron is 4th on his own team in offensive winshares
Lebron is 5th on his own team in FG%, but takes 10.5 more shots a game than his 2nd option

Damn...Lebron is only the 4th-5th best player on an injured Cavs team. Thank god, for his sake, that Love has basically missed the playoffs.

Yep...ask any GM out there, and they will tell you that Lebron is nothing more than a glorified role player.

[3ball]

Lebron's career, as great as he has been, is still nowhere near as great as Jordan's.

Having said that, if, and this is a big IF, LBJ were to take this team, with an injured Kyrie, to a title, it would be one of the greatest accomplishments ever.


IF and only IF Kyrie remains injured...

But if the Cavs win the Finals while Kyrie puts up his normal stats, then Lebron isn't more impressive than anyone else, since a healthy Kyrie gives Lebron an equivalent supporting cast to MJ or Curry's.

[SouBeachTalents]

Damn...Lebron is only the 4th-5th best player on an injured Cavs team. Thank god, for his sake, that Love has basically missed the playoffs.

Yep...ask any GM out there, and they will tell you that Lebron is nothing more than a glorified role player.

:roll:

[24-Inch_Chrome]

Curry > Kyrie, injured or healthy
Klay > JR/Iman
Barnes/Iggy < LeBron
Green > TT
Bogut > Mozgov.

[ImKobe]

Damn...Lebron is only the 4th-5th best player on an injured Cavs team. Thank god, for his sake, that Love has basically missed the playoffs.

Yep...ask any GM out there, and they will tell you that Lebron is nothing more than a glorified role player.

Lol it's just to point out that this "Lebron carrying scrubs" narrative is bullshit. Especially when he himself hasn't been as efficient as he used to be and the fact that he's 8-25 in 2nd halves in the ECF so far.

Just stating the facts.

[DonDadda59]

Why was this thread necessary? :confusedshrug:


WS/48 leaders on the 2014-15 Cleveland Cavaliers

1. Kyrie Irving .205
2. Tristan Thompson .193
3. J.R Smith .190
4. Lebron James .166
5. Iman Shumpert .163

Lebron is 10th on his own team in Playoffs TS%.
Lebron is 4th on his own team in offensive winshares
Lebron is 5th on his own team in FG%, but takes 10.5 more shots a game than his 2nd option

Further proof of how useless and meaningless most advanced stats are.

[ImKobe]

Why was this thread necessary? :confusedshrug:



Further proof of how useless and meaningless most advanced stats are.

They were pretty important when Lebron used to be an efficient player. Now that his advanced stats are worse than Kobe's at the same age, they suddenly do not matter at all.

[jlip]

55-27

[Jameerthefear]

MJ fans literally comparing the Cavs with a hobbled Kyrie, and no Kevin Love to Golden State, a 67 win team, at full strength :roll: :roll:

They are so shook that when MJ had a comparable cast to this one, he went 1-9
RAT. POISON.

[3ball]

Curry > Kyrie, injured or healthy
Klay > JR/Iman
Barnes/Iggy < LeBron
Green > TT
Bogut > Mozgov.


^^^^^ This proves how dumb you are... We're comparing SUPPORTING CASTS dumbass... so you can't include curry.


Pippen > Kyrie

Grant = Thompson

Cartwright = Mosgov

Paxson < JR Smith

BJ Armstrong < Shumpert


Seriously, tell me what matchup I'm wrong about... Lebron's supporting cast is equivalent - here's how it compares to GS:


Kyrie > Klay

Thompson < Green

Shumpert = Iggy

JR Smith > Barnes

Mosgov > Bogut (just look at their stats - prime Bogut is LONG GONE)


2015 Per-100 Possession Stats:

Mosgov: 22.1 PPG, 14.5 RPG, 2.5 BLK
Bogut:.. 13.0 PPG, 16.5 RPG, 3.5 BLK

[DonDadda59]

They were pretty important when Lebron used to be an efficient player. Now that his advanced stats are worse than Kobe's at the same age, they suddenly do not matter at all.

They never did to me. Don't think I've ever tried arguing any point ever using WS/48 :oldlol:

And Horace Grant was a good deal better than Tristan Thompson, come on. Maybe not as an offensive rebounder (and Horace was no slouch in that department), but overall... easily a better all around player. Bron's team right now (sans Kyrie/Love) isn't as talented as the Bulls by any stretch of the imagination. They just happen to be playing perhaps the worst 60 win team the NBA has ever seen in a Historically weak conference.

[ImKobe]

They never did to me. Don't think I've ever tried arguing any point ever using WS/48 :oldlol:

And Horace Grant was a good deal better than Tristan Thompson, come on. Maybe not as an offensive rebounder, but overall... easily a better all around player. Bron's team right now (sans Kyrie/Love) isn't as talented as the Bulls by any stretch of the imagination. They just happen to be playing perhaps the worst 60 win team the NBA has ever seen in a Historically weak conference.

just the other day I saw a Kobe hater post some postseason pic about WS/48 in Playoff runs to make his argument about Kobe vs Duncan in the POs

of course they are not as talented as the Bulls, Jordan alone is miles ahead of Lebron in terms of basketball skill, IQ and leadership.

[3ball]

some misinformation itt

[DonDadda59]

just the other day I saw a Kobe hater post some postseason pic about WS/48 in Playoff runs to make his argument about Kobe vs Duncan in the POs

Only person I've seen use that stat on this site is that advanced stat nerd Yao Ming's Left Nut and that fool always gets murdered in his own threads using the same advanced metrics he champions.


of course they are not as talented as the Bulls, Jordan alone is miles ahead of Lebron in terms of basketball skill, IQ and leadership.

Right, but Horace Grant is easily, easily a better basketball player than Tristan Thompson. BJ Armstrong, John Paxson>Dellavadova, Shumpert, etc.

The Cavs are out there playing with their practice squad and the competition is so comically bad that they can blow them out with Bron not playing to his usual standards. His jumpshot has been MIA all postseason, but it hasn't mattered since the teams they're playing have been an absolute joke. I've said it time and time again, the last 2-3 seasons have been the worst the league has been since the pre-merger 70s.

[3ball]

And Horace Grant was a good deal better than Tristan Thompson, come on. Maybe not as an offensive rebounder, but overall... easily a better all around player.

Bron's team right now (sans Kyrie/Love) isn't as talented as the Bulls by any stretch of the imagination.


I think you're letting the 6 championships blind you of these players' ACTUAL TALENT.. There's no way Paxson and BJ have more talent than Shumpert and JR Smith... That's just ridiculous - they can't even dunk while Shumpert and JR Smith rip the rim off.

Also, how exactly is Grant a better player than Thompson?... They have the exact same role (finishers around the rim, NOTHING more) and they both do it equally well... Put Thompson alongside MJ and he'd have the same championship shine that I suspect you favor Grant for... But Horace said it himself - if he never played alongside MJ, he'd have been his brother Harvey..

Obviously, Pippen > Kyrie... but that's it... all the other players - Grant, BJ, Paxson, Kerr, whoever - they all looked super-efficient and solid because they played alongside MJ and won championships.. plain and simple.. But talented players like Shumpert and JR Smith would do even better alongside MJ.

[DonDadda59]

I think you're letting the 6 championships blind you of these players' ACTUAL TALENT.. There's no way Paxson and BJ have more talent than Shumpert and JR Smith... That's just ridiculous.

I said Dellavadova and Shumpert since they are the Cavs' "point guards". Makes more sense to compare JR to Pippen but come on... :oldlol:


Also, how exactly is Grant a better player than Thompson?...

Come on man, Horace is a much better all around player than Thompson :facepalm

Better scorer by a very wide margin, better defender, just as good a rebounder outside of maybe O rebounding (and Horace routinely got 4+ O rebounds/game for the Bulls). How is this even debatable? You would really take Tristan Thompson over Horace Grant as a GM? :biggums:


Obviously, Pippen > Kyrie... but that's it...

Kyrie hasn't even played in the ECF and might not even suit up because they don't need him for the joke competition :confusedshrug:


all the other players - Grant, BJ, Paxson, Kerr, whoever - they all looked super-efficient and solid because they played alongside MJ and won championships.. plain and simple.. But talented players like Shumpert and JR Smith would do even better alongside MJ.

Shump and JR aren't any more talented than BJ or Horace. They are just in the right place at the right time.

[iamgine]

Don't forget Phil Jackson >>>>>>>>>>> David Blatt

[DonDadda59]

Don't forget Phil Jackson >>>>>>>>>>> David Blatt

David Blatt before coaching the Cavs>>>>>Phil Jackson before coaching the Bulls.

Phil was the coach of the Albany Patroons and some random Puerto Rican League squads before taking the Bulls head job, after Doug Collins had led the still developing squad to a 6 game battle against the eventual champion Pistons in the ECF. Quite possibly the luckiest coach of all time given that he went straight to Shaq-Kobe right after and didn't even create the offensive system he was so famous for.

[3ball]

Horace... Better scorer by a very wide margin


are you out of your mind?

horace grant was a dunker, a banger.. he was a guy that dunked open shots and got rebounds... THAT'S IT.. where in the hell are you getting the idea that horace could score, or was a better scorer than thompson? - such a notion is supported by NOTHING..

if horace played on any other team, he would be just another decent role player.. a nobody - he'd never be important enough to be discussed on this forum.. how can you act like horace was skilled as a scorer in ANY WAY?... That's just a flat-out lie, or you just don't remember.





Shump and JR aren't any more talented than BJ or Horace. They are just in the right place at the right time.


again.. nowhere NEAR being true - BJ can't even dunk.. literally... but you think his talent compares to Shumpert and JR Smith - do you know how many hops Shump has?... you should youtube shumpert.

BJ is nowhere NEAR as talented as Shump or JR... that's an easy fact.. the dunking proves it.. that's my proof... where's yours

I think you're letting the fact that paxson, horace and bj won championships blind you.... but ANY role player looks better when winning rings alongside star players... if you put harvey grant on those Bulls teams instead of horace, all of a sudden we're here talking about harvey.
.

[sdot_thadon]

While it's quite entertaining to watch this slow boil 3ball, can't help but feel for you man. There's no way this cast compares to any bulls title teams, if he manages to win this way it will be quite the feather in his cap. Still lots of ball to played though, far to early to be melting down like this. Get a grip boy.:oldlol:


are you out of your mind?

horace grant was a dunker, a banger.. he was a guy that dunked open shots and got rebounds... THAT'S IT.. where in the hell are you getting the idea that horace could score, or was a better scorer than thompson? - such a notion is supported by NOTHING..

:biggums:

[3ball]

While it's quite entertaining to watch this slow boil 3ball, can't help but feel for you man. There's no way this cast compares to any bulls title teams, if he manages to win this way it will be quite the feather in his cap. Still lots of ball to played though, far to early to be melting down like this. Get a grip boy.:oldlol:
you don't know basketball..

you and dadda think guys like paxson and bj, NEITHER OF WHICH CAN DUNK, are as talented as rim wreckers Shumpert and JR Smith?

that's just dumb... d-u-m-b... plain and simple.

you guys want to big-up horace grant like he was anything more than a dunker?... he had ZERO offensive game, and neither of you guys can show me a play where he created his own shot.. if he didn't play alongside MJ, he'd be like his brother Harvey, and we'd never discuss him in this forum.. ever.. the only role players we ever discuss are players that were lucky enough to win rings playing alongside an all-time great
.

[mehyaM24]

:oldlol: at hardcore jordan fans disagreeing with one another. that's when you know lebron is doing something right. :applause:

[Jameerthefear]

you don't know basketball..

you and dadda think guys like paxson and bj, NEITHER OF WHICH CAN DUNK, are as talented as rim wreckers Shumpert and JR Smith?

that's just dumb... d-u-m-b... plain and simple.

you guys want to big-up horace grant like he was anything more than a dunker?... he had ZERO offensive game, and neither of you guys can show me a play where he created his own shot.. if he didn't play alongside MJ, he'd just be like his brother Harvey, and we'd never discuss him in this forum.. ever
even i know this wasn't true :roll: you're a moron

[ImKobe]

While it's quite entertaining to watch this slow boil 3ball, can't help but feel for you man. There's no way this cast compares to any bulls title teams, if he manages to win this way it will be quite the feather in his cap. Still lots of ball to played though, far to early to be melting down like this. Get a grip boy.:oldlol:


How are the 2014-15 Cavs less talented than the 96-97 and 97-98 Bulls?

Scottie's numbers in 97 and 98 are worse than Irvings, and he was struggling with back injury as Jordan single-handedly carried the Bulls to the W on the road in Game 6..

And those Bulls teams actually beat some legitimate teams with franchise players.

You look at the 97 and 98 Bulls in the Playoffs, Jordan carried those two teams. They had a lot of names on them, but you look at their production and how MJ performed in the Finals, there's no question those runs were more impressive or at the very worst on the same level...

[3ball]

even i know this wasn't true :roll: you're a moron


http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/5-23-2015/FSFdS1.gif


Saying Paxson and BJ are anywhere NEAR talented as Shumpert or JR Smith isn't just dumb... it's super-dumb

Where are John Paxson's top 10 dunks:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9fdkdWncKI4

[DonDadda59]

are you out of your mind?

horace grant was a dunker, a banger.. he was a guy that dunked open shots and got rebounds... THAT'S IT.. where in the hell are you getting the idea that horace could score, or was a better scorer than thompson? - such a notion is supported by NOTHING..

if horace played on any other team, he would be just another decent role player.. a nobody - he'd never be important enough to be discussed on this forum.. how can you act like horace was skilled as a scorer in ANY WAY?... That's just a flat-out lie, or you just don't remember.

Come on man... Horace had the ability to create his own shot unlike Thompson who doesn't seem to be able to score on anything except bird fed alleys and putbacks. Horace had a reliable turnaround from the post, a nice mid range jumper, and was great at finishing in traffic. He put up 14/10/3/2 as a third option on a championship squad and 15/11/3 as a second option.

Thompson couldn't even do that on lottery teams :oldlol:




again.. nowhere NEAR being true - BJ can't even dunk.. literally... but you think his talent compares to Shumpert and JR Smith - do you know how many hops Shump has?... you should youtube shumpert.

Seriously? You're being serious? :wtf:

John Stockton couldn't dunk... Shumpert>Stockton. :applause:



BJ is nowhere NEAR as talented as Shump or JR... that's an easy fact.. the dunking proves it.. that's my proof... where's yours

B.J. was a 14-15 PPG player when he was asked to step up. Even put up 12 PPG during the '93 run.

Shump was a 7 PPG player this season coming off a major injury.


I think you're letting the fact that paxson, horace and bj won championships blind you....
.

Horace and BJ had their best individual seasons when Jordan was playing baseball, they didn't win championships then... what the hell does that have to do with anything? :confusedshrug:

[sd3035]

3ball just owned the entire Lebaldo stan base :roll:

[tpols]

Tristan/Mozgov > grant/cartwright especially relative to competition

Shumpert/JR > bj/Paxson

Normally I'd say the above guard comparison is close but Shumpert who normally can't shoot worth shit has been on fire when it counts and is a young tony allen level defender. MJs guys weren't as well rounded.

Thompson has raped two all star frontcourts in a row.. has Horace ever dominated his matchups to the same extent?

Pippen > kyrie.. that just about evens it out unless kyrie doesn't get healthy by the time cavs face a real team.

[Smoke117]

lol...Grant is way better than Thompson. Don't be a ****ing idiot.

[3ball]

Horace had the ability to create his own shot unlike Thompson who doesn't seem to be able to score on anything except bird fed alleys and putbacks.


100% of Horace's points were bird-fed... 100%... You're a very disingenuous poster.. I see that now.

The best stats Horace Grant put up in the playoffs with MJ was 13.3 ppg and 8.1 rpg... Thompson is doing this for Lebron right now..

Also, for Thompson's entire career, he's ALWAYS averaged more PPG and RPG than Horace on a Per-100 possession basis in regular season and playoffs.. The per-100 gap is material and distinct.





John Stockton couldn't dunk... Shumpert>Stockton. :applause:


Not comparable because Shumpert is a backup... Now if you want to compare Kyrie to Stockton - then yes, Kyrie has more talent than Stockton, while Stockton has a lot more skill obviously.

But the type of skill we're talking about when comparing Stockton and Kyrie is NEVER prevalent or a factor when comparing role players like Shumpert or Paxson.. Shumpert is simply WAY more talented than both Paxson and BJ... Plain and simple





B.J. was a 14-15 PPG player when he was asked to step up. Even put up 12 PPG during the '93 run.


As a STARTER.... So compare BJ Armstrong to JR Smith or Kyrie, not Shumpert... Compare Shumpert to the backup... Who was the Bulls backup again?.. Case in point - obviously, they weren't nearly as good as Shumpert because I can't even remember their name... Oh wait, it was Paxson and his 4.9 PPG.
.

[ImKobe]

lol...Grant is way better than Thompson. Don't be a ****ing idiot.

12/8 on 56% shooting, 16.4 PER for the 3-peat in the Playoffs

Thompson so far averaging 9 & 10 on 56% shooting, 15.7 PER, leads the Playoffs with a 134 ORTG, Grant averaged less rebounds in more minutes

:confusedshrug:

from a pure statistical production, they give the same production

[Straight_Ballin]

Lol 3ball presents a great case comparing the 2 teams and the bran stans get shook realizing that what lebald is doing really isn't all that spectacular. I love it!:lol

[Smoke117]

12/8 on 56% shooting, 16.4 PER for the 3-peat in the Playoffs

Thompson so far averaging 9 & 10 on 56% shooting, 15.7 PER, leads the Playoffs with a 134 ORTG, Grant averaged less rebounds in more minutes

:confusedshrug:

from a pure statistical production, they give the same production

Except Grant was one of the best defensive forwards in the league. Stick to kobe, child.

[3ball]

lol...Grant is way better than Thompson. Don't be a ****ing idiot.


That's an easy thing to SAY... but neither were anything more than role playing, play-finishers around the rim... NOTHING more.

Horace wasn't even better than his brother Harvey.. The only difference is that Horace played with MJ, so he has the luster of being remembered playing in big games and winning championships.

Get your head out of your ass, and think LOGICALLY, not like a bitch ****
.

[Smoke117]

it's an easy thing to SAY... but specifically what did Grant do better than Thompson?

Horace wasn't even better than his brother Harvey.. The only difference is that Horace played with MJ.

Get your head out of your ass, and think LOGICALLY, not like a bitch ****

Shut up, clown. You'll say anything to prop up MJ. Harvey Grant couldn't play defense worth a shit.

[tpols]

lol...Grant is way better than Thompson. Don't be a ****ing idiot.

You're looking at it from a nostalgic pov.. Thompson has arguably been the most impactful big man of the entire eastern conference playoffs so far.. if you stretch out what he's shown over a career he's = or > grant.

[Spurs5Rings2014]

I suspect that when James retires he will be ranked in the untouchable six tier (Duncan, MJ, Magic, Kareem, and Russell.)

:applause:

[DonDadda59]

100% of Horace's points were bird-fed... 100%... You're a very disingenuous poster.. I see that now.

Bruh (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMErM4RdGz8)

The Skills (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3aNblRcJaM)

^Turnaround jumpers from the post, top of the key mid range jumpers, cuts off ball, etc.

A wide range of offensive skills Tristan Thompson does not possess.

You're melting down for no reason. Take a deep breath. Bron hasn't won anything yet :D


The best stats Horace Grant put up in the playoffs with MJ was 13.3 ppg and 8.1 rpg... Thompson is doing this for Lebron right now..

He also gave Shaq 14/10. And Thompson is averaging 9/10 against far inferior front courts than the ones Horace was facing routinely in the playoffs (Ewing/Oakley, Barkley, Rodman/Laimbeer, Daugherty/Nance, etc).


Also, for Thompson's entire career, he's ALWAYS averaged more PPG and RPG than Horace on a Per-100 possession basis in regular season and playoffs.. The per-100 gap is material and distinct.

Who the hell cares about hypothetical possessions? :lol

What matters is their actual production and Horace Grant was clearly a superior player to Tristan Thompson at this point of his career... he might improve, but right now it's not even remotely debatable.

Don't let your hate blind you from reality.



Not comparable because Shumpert is a backup... Now if you want to compare Kyrie to Stockton - then yes, Kyrie has more talent than Stockton, while Stockton has a lot more skill obviously.

And Kyrie isn't even playing right now... so what is your point? :confusedshrug:

[3ball]

Horace put up 12/8 on 56% shooting, 16.4 PER for the 3-peat in the Playoffs

Thompson so far averaging 9/10 on 56% shooting, 15.7 PER, leads the Playoffs with a 134 ORTG.. Horace averaged less rebounds in more minutes

from a pure statistical production, they give the same production


Exactly.. Statistically, they're the same.

Role players like Horace and Tristan Thompson have always been interchangeable... It's the STARS that aren't... The Cavs would play totally different if you replaced Lebron with Magic or MJ... But they would play the same if you replaced Thompson's 16 PER with Horace's 16 PER.

But people perceive Horace as better than Thompson because they remember Horace playing in big games and winning championships... But in reality, their production and impact is interchangeable... If the Cavs win this year, you'll see people look at Thompson differently - people will perceive Thompson to be a better player the day he wins the championship than the day before.. All of a sudden DonDadda will think Thompson can **** with Horace

[DonDadda59]

Exactly.. Statistically, they're the same.

Role players like Horace and Tristan Thompson have always been interchangeable... It's the STARS that aren't... The Cavs would play totally different if you replaced Lebron with Magic or MJ... But they would play the same if you replaced Thompson's 16 PER with Horace's 16 PER.

But people perceive Horace as better than Thompson because they remember Horace playing in big games and winning championships... But in reality, their production and impact is interchangeable... If the Cavs win this year, you'll see people look at Thompson differently - people will perceive Thompson to be a better player the day he wins the championship than the day before.. All of a sudden DonDadda will think Thompson can **** with Horace

Get a grip, holy shit what a meltdown :lol

Horace Grant was far more skilled than Tristan Thompson was and it has nothing to do with winning championships as Jordan's third option. Look at what Horace did in '94 without Jordan, then '95 when he went to Orlando.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcYl5YfFYUM

Tristan Thompson can win the next 6 championships catching alleys from Bron and unless he made some dramatic improvements skill wise, Horace would be ranked a better player than him.


12/8 on 56% shooting, 16.4 PER for the 3-peat in the Playoffs

Thompson so far averaging 9 & 10 on 56% shooting, 15.7 PER, leads the Playoffs with a 134 ORTG, Grant averaged less rebounds in more minutes



from a pure statistical production, they give the same production

So basically you're comparing a 3 year championship run to 2 1/2 series in the most talent deficient era since the 70s... but just the same right?

[edrick]

I remember when people said this same thing about Mo and other people Lebron played with. What the **** did any of them do when they were traded to other teams? Not a damn thing.

What happened when MJ left the Bulls? They still went deep into the playoffs. There's no way in hell this Cavs team would do that.

[nzahir]

3Ball reply to this one
This thread is so wrong...you have horace grant tied with thompson...thats disrespectful man. You dont even consider the difference by how much scottie is better than an injured kyrie(atm we dont even have kyrie).

Klay>healthy kyrie even b/c klay is more efficient and is a good defender
Green>thompson
Shump=iggy
Smith>barnes
Bogut>mozgov AND HERE IS YOUR PROOF IDIOT, #1 in adjusted defensive plus minus
http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/DRPM/position/9
Livingston=delly, i like livingston more but delly fits better for cavs
Barbosa>joe harris lol
Ezeli, speights, lee>marion, perkins, james jones

Warriors have more talent, more healthy, and more depth.

[3ball]

^Turnaround jumpers from the post, top of the key mid range jumpers, cuts off ball, etc.


You're posting Horace Grant's career high game to support your argument?... Super weak.

And everything you listed above is bird-fed stuff.. Stand-still, mid-range jumpshots are bird-feeding.. So I'm not sure what you were going for there.

Also, Thompson is the better rebounder.. But they're both just role players so it's splitting hairs.. The only thing that's relevant to this discussion is the fact that we'd never mention EITHER player if they didn't play with MJ or Lebron.. They'd just be 2 role players that we barely knew or gave a shit about.





You're melting down for no reason. Take a deep breath. Bron hasn't won anything yet


Nah, not at all... This is fun for me... Gives me an excuse to stan MJ.. Relax and stop worrying... I'm almost certainly better off than everyone in this forum..





Horace Grant was clearly a superior player to Tristan Thompson at this point of his career.


Your arguments support Horace having the better CAREER thus far, not that he's the better player... In 1991 regular season (BEFORE his first ring), Horace Grant averaged 12.8 PPG and 8.4 RPG in 34 MPG as a bird-fed role player... Thompson is the same type of player as 1991 Horace Grant - he's putting up the same numbers, better actually.
.

[DonDadda59]

You're posting Horace Grant's career high game to support your argument?... Super weak.

I posted 3 different videos that showed Horace's post ups, mid range game, drives, cuts, and of course his rebounding/defensive skill.


And everything you listed above is bird-fed stuff.. Stand-still, mid-range jumpshots are bird-feeding.. So I'm not sure what you were going for there.

Plenty of instances of him working out of the post and creating his own shot in the videos I posted. And even if his jumpers are 'bed fed'... trying bird feeding Tristan Thompson jumpers from the top of the key and see what happens :lol


Also, Thompson is the better rebounder.. But they're both just role players so it's splitting hairs.. The only thing that's relevant to this discussion is the fact that we'd never mention EITHER player if they didn't play with MJ or Lebron.. They'd just be 2 role players that we barely knew or gave a shit about.

Horace was a 15/11/3 second option on a 55 win playoff team without Jordan then went on to help the Magic reach the finals. Thompson has accomplished what without Bron?


Nah, not at all... This is fun for me... Gives me an excuse to stan MJ.. Relax and stop worrying... I guarantee that I'm better off than just about everyone in this forum.

Could've fooled me :lol


Your arguments support Horace having the better CAREER thus far, not that he's the better player... In 1991 regular season (BEFORE his first ring), Horace Grant averaged 12.8 PPG and 8.4 RPG in 34 MPG as a bird-fed role player... Thompson is the same type of player as 1991 Horace Grant - he's putting up the same numbers, better actually.

Well we'll just have to see if Thompson is good enough to be a 15/11/3 second option caliber player with great defense on a 55+ win team without Bron then. :cheers:

[Foster5k]

After LeBron went off versus the Hawks, with pretty much the Knick's old roster, 3ball called in sick from McDonalds. There were no McChickens served that day.

[mehyaM24]

^^^^ holy shit.. i legit never knew doda was an undercover lebron fan.

jordan definitely played with more talent, which is why he had more opportunities to win titles. i've been saying this for how long now? i'm glad to see don is no longer hiding behind the fake jordan gimmick :applause:

[3ball]

3Ball reply to this one

you have horace grant tied with thompson...thats disrespectful man. You dont even consider the difference by how much scottie is better than an injured kyrie(atm we dont even have kyrie).


Horace Grant was an athletic dunker that averaged 12/8... Same as Thompson... It doesn't makes sense to split hairs among similarly-matched bird-fed, role players.. The two are pretty close - it could go either way.

If Thompson can hang on with a superstar and win rings like Horace, he'll be recognized as having just as good a career as Horace.. If he can't win rings like Horace, then he'll be perceived the same way as Harvey Grant.. Exactly... who?

Btw, I acknowledge that Pip > Kyrie.. But Shumpert and JR Smith > Paxson and BJ.





Bogut>mozgov AND HERE IS YOUR PROOF IDIOT, #1 in adjusted defensive plus minus


But Mosgov scores almost TWICE as much:


2015 Per-100 Possession Stats:

Mosgov: 22.1 PPG
Bogut:.. 13.0 PPG

[DonDadda59]

^^^^ holy shit.. i legit never knew doda was an undercover lebron fan.

I'm not, I just live in reality. I'm not going to make believe the Cavs practice squad is more talented than the Bulls. That's just ridiculous :lol


jordan definitely played with more talent

Compared to the Cavs missing their second and third options this year, yes... with the Superfriends in Miami (or a healthy Cavs team)... hell no. :lol

[3ball]

I posted 3 different videos that showed Horace's post ups, mid range game, drives, cuts, and of course his rebounding/defensive skill.


you never posted any videos of horace's "post ups" because he never had any... the bulls never ran post ups for horace because horace couldn't post... that proves you're straight up lying and trolling..

you're just straight up lying about this.. :confusedshrug:.. horace never created his own shot.. he never "posted up".. he was nothing more than a 100% bird-fed player... and honestly, don't respond to me about the topic of horace grant anymore - you lying, and i'm not going back and forth with some idiot that thinks horace could create his own shot.





Horace was a 15/11/3 second option on a 55 win playoff team without Jordan then went on to help the Magic reach the finals. Thompson has accomplished what without Bron?


Only 15 PPG as second option?... You just made my point... Piggybacking Shaq to the Finals?... Tristan Thompson can accomplish that too... But keep thinking Horace is all-world.





Could've fooled me :lol


why, because my arguments are smarter and more logical, or because my posts are too knowledgeable for you or any other poster to follow/understand?
.

[nzahir]

Horace Grant was an athletic dunker that averaged 12/8... Same as Thompson... It doesn't makes sense to split hairs among similarly-matched bird-fed, role players.. The two are pretty close - it could go either way.

If Thompson can hang on with a superstar and win rings like Horace, he'll be recognized as having just as good a career as Horace.. If he can't win rings like Horace, then he'll be perceived the same way as Harvey Grant.. Exactly... who?

Btw, I acknowledge that Pip > Kyrie.. But Shumpert and JR Smith > Paxson and BJ.



But Mosgov scores almost TWICE as much:


2015 Per-100 Possession Stats:

Mosgov: 22.1 PPG
Bogut:.. 13.0 PPG

Grant was putting up 12-14 those years with almost 10 boards(through the championship run) BUT he had some legit offensive moves and that shorter mid range jumper. Thompson doesnt, it all comes off of alley oops, pick and rolls, or put backs. So the defense can let him shoot them, doesnt space floor.
Mozgov averaged 3 more points a game, great; but bogut shot a better %. The reason is b/c the warriors were blowing people out and he didnt have to play many minutes.

But pippen is much better than kyrie, especially an injured one; the difference with him compared to paxson and bj vs jr and shump is significant.

That bulls team is overall a bit better than our team even with kyrie playing; and the deeper end of your bench is a bit better but thats not too important.
With love though I will admit that we have a more talented supporting cast than mj did but w/o him I wont.

And the 2nd 3 peat is a whole new story.
Kukoc, rodman, kerr, pippen, longley

[DonDadda59]

you never posted any videos of horace's "post ups" because he never had any...

Did you not watch the videos I posted? :confusedshrug:


you're just straight up lying about this.. :confusedshrug:.. horace never created his own shot.. he never "posted up".. he was nothing more than a 100% bird-fed player... and honestly, don't respond to me about the topic of horace grant anymore - you lying, and i'm not going back and forth with some idiot that thinks horace could create his own shot.

Ridiculous :lol



Only 15 PPG as second option?... You just made my point... Piggybacking Shaq to the Finals?... Tristan Thompson can accomplish that too... But keep thinking Horace is all-world.

Who said he was 'all world'? But he was good enough to be a 15/11/3 second option on a 55 win playoff team. Spin it however you want. Grant>>>Thompson.


Grant was putting up 12-14 those years with almost 10 boards(through the championship run) BUT he had some legit offensive moves and that shorter mid range jumper.

No he didn't. Grant never had a jumper, or post moves. Everything was 100% bird fed.

[nzahir]

Did you not watch the videos I posted? :confusedshrug:



Ridiculous :lol



Who said he was 'all world'? But he was good enough to be a 15/11/3 second option on a 55 win playoff team. Spin it however you want. Grant>>>Thompson.



No he didn't. Grant never had a jumper, or post moves. Everything was 100% bird fed.
Wait arent you arguing that grant did have a jumper...you even proved it yourself.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3aNblRcJaM

[Im Still Ballin]

So MJ gets replaced by a D-league scrub and the bulls only lose 4 or so wins?

So Lebron leaves the Cavs and they go from the best record in the league to the worst?

So Lebron leaves the Heat and they go from 4 straight finals to not being able to get 38 wins to make the playoffs even after replacing Lebron with 3 all-star level players?

So Lebron is injured for a 2 week period and the Cavs go 1-9?

Well?

[Kvnzhangyay]

Wait arent you arguing that grant did have a jumper...you even proved it yourself.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3aNblRcJaM

He's being sarcastic lol

[nzahir]

He's being sarcastic lol
O lol, its hard to understand sarcasm in text

[theaussieguy]

can we all just embrace 3ball as the one true god already?

[3ball]

So Lebron leaves the Cavs and they go from the best record in the league to the worst?

Well?
Lebron only added 11 wins to the Heat when he joined them in 2011... and he had bosh helping him.

MJ added 18 wins to the Wizards when he joined them in 2002.. and it was the EXACT same roster.

In 1995, the Bulls were 34-32 when MJ came back, at which point they finished the season 13-4 to finish 47-35.. The next season, MJ increased their wins from 47 to 72.

[allball]

Pippen > Kyrie

Grant = Thompson

Cartwright = Mosgov

Paxson < JR Smith

BJ Armstrong < Shumpert


Seriously, tell me what matchup I'm wrong about... Lebron's supporting cast is equivalent - here's how it compares to GS:


Kyrie > Klay

Thompson < Green

Shumpert = Iggy

JR Smith > Barnes

Mosgov > Bogut (just look at their stats - prime Bogut is LONG GONE)


2015 Per-100 Possession Stats:

Mosgov: 22.1 PPG, 14.5 RPG, 2.5 BLK
Bogut:.. 13.0 PPG, 16.5 RPG, 3.5 BLK

you have no idea what you're talking about

[warriorfan]

Pippen > Kyrie

Grant = Thompson

Cartwright = Mosgov

Paxson < JR Smith

BJ Armstrong < Shumpert


Seriously, tell me what matchup I'm wrong about... Lebron's supporting cast is equivalent - here's how it compares to GS:


Kyrie > Klay

Thompson < Green

Shumpert = Iggy

JR Smith > Barnes

Mosgov > Bogut (just look at their stats - prime Bogut is LONG GONE)


2015 Per-100 Possession Stats:

Mosgov: 22.1 PPG, 14.5 RPG, 2.5 BLK
Bogut:.. 13.0 PPG, 16.5 RPG, 3.5 BLK



Agreed

[JohnFreeman]

3ball is such a joke

[theaussieguy]

3ball is such a joke
he is the one true god you better get embracing before you are put in shackle you swine

[MP.Trey]

ITT: Horace Grant gets SEVERELY disrespected.

[3ball]

Grant>>>Thompson.


Nah.. He's not.. You're just blinded by the memory of Grant in big games, winning championships.. If he had played for the Sacramento Kings, he'd be just another solid, 9 RPG power forward.

Horace and Tristan are the same type of player that have the same type of impact for any team, whether it's a championship team or a lottery team - they're bangers who are 100% bird-fed..

They rank on the same tier of bangers, however, both are significantly below the Oakley/Otis Thorpe/Rodman elite tier of bangers.






Horace was good enough to be a 15/11/3 second option on a 55 win playoff team.


So wait... Horace was good enough to average 15 PPG (in 37 MPG) for one season out of his 18 year career?... :applause:

So is Tristan.. He averaged 12 PPG in 31 MPG in just his 2nd season... Same PPP was Horace's.. Higher PPP than Horace for his career.
.

[warriorfan]

TT is getting disrespected ITT. He is not skilled but he is such a physical presence he impacts the game regardless. He is a very good player.

[sd3035]

The facts are there for all to see. Lebaldo has had a much better supporting cast than the all time greats and still choked, that's why he's not on the list

[DonDadda59]

Nah.. He's not.. You're just blinded by the memory of Grant in big games, winning championships.. If he had played for the Sacramento Kings, he'd be just another solid, 9 RPG power forward.


He didn't win a ring in '95 when he was the second option on a 55 win playoff team (Bulls became a .500 caliber team after he left) or the next season when he helped the Magic reach the NBA finals.

Honestly, from the way you described Horace's style of play... doesn't seem like you've ever seen him play outside of some highlight reels of his dunks. :confusedshrug:


Horace and Tristan are the same type of player that have the same type of impact for any team, whether it's a championship team or a lottery team - they're bangers who are 100% bird-fed..


When was Horace on a lottery team? He was a key contributor for a threepeat, helped a Jordan-less team win 55, then the very next season helped a one and done Magic team reach the finals... But yeah, same impact... lottery or nothing. :rolleyes:


They rank on the same tier of bangers, however, both are significantly below the Oakley/Otis Thorpe/Rodman elite tier of bangers.

Now I'm convinced you never saw any of the players you just mentioned play. :oldlol:



So wait... Horace was good enough to average 15 PPG (in 37 MPG) for one season out of his 18 year career?... :applause:

Only season he was asked to be a second option... helped the team win 55 :applause:


So is Tristan.. He averaged 12 PPG in 31 MPG in just his 2nd season...

On a 24 win team... Dat Horace-like impact :bowdown:

[navy]

The Cavs are a great team when they are healthy. Would be favorites. But now they are the Knicks castaways (Jr, Shump, Moz), Lebron plus TT. Who is putting up 8/10. Cant deny the impact he has with 4 offensive rebounds per game though. That's four extra possessions the team shouldnt have.

Pippen is 10 times the player of an injured Irving. It's insulting to compare the two. Love is out. Nobody else is really relevant of being talked about. They are just role players that wouldnt be noticed on any other team. But they are playing well in big moments. Check their stats and you would be unimpressed im sure.

As for Golden State, they got two dpoy caliber players in the front court, Klay thompson is is much better than the injured Kyrie, and they have a deep bench.

The Cavs are giving heavy minutes to Matthew Dellavaoda and James Jones.

Stop it.

Ask yourself this. Who on the Cavs would start for Golden State? Hell, who on the Cavs would get real play time for Golden State?

[3ball]

55-win playoff team


I like it when people bring this up - Memphis Grizzlies won 55 games this year... So it's like MJ took that team to 72 wins and 3-peat, while averaging 30 PPG and winning 2 league MVP's and all 3 FMVP's.. That's GOAT.. Of course, MJ wouldn't need to average 30 PPG on the Griz because their roster is far more talented than the 1996-1998 Bulls.





when he helped the Magic reach the NBA finals


Stop playing dumb - Horace played with Shaq on that team.. Shaq wins regardless of PF - he won rings with Samaki Walker as his PF.. And that's the whole point - if Horace hadn't played alongside MJ and Shaq for his entire career, he would just be another solid, 9 RPG power forward.





Now I'm convinced you never saw any of the players you just mentioned play. :oldlol:


There's nothing wrong with saying Oakley/Rodman/Thorpe > Horace... How does that make it seem like I haven't seen them play?.. And since you're a passive aggressive **** like sdot thadon and can't say what you mean upfront, i'm going to assume you don't think these guys are bangers - they ARE nothing more than bangers (defense, rebounding, bang inside).

[DonDadda59]

I like it when people bring this up - Memphis Grizzlies won 55 games this year... So it's like MJ took that team to 72 wins and 3-peat, while averaging 30 PPG and winning 2 league MVP's and all 3 FMVP's.. That's GOAT.. Of course, MJ wouldn't need to average 30 PPG on the Griz because their roster is far more talented than the 1996-1998 Bulls.

What the f*ck are you going on about? :oldlol:

No one is questioning Jordan's GOAT status or impact. But the fact remains- with Horace Grant as the Bulls' second option sans Jordan, the Bulls won 55 games and took the eventual East champions to 7 games in the second round. Once he left, the Bulls regressed into a team that barely maintained .500 level basketball before Jordan returned. When he joined the Magic, they went from one and done to the finals.

But you're here making believe that Tristan Thompson playing with Kyrie Irving and winning 24-33 games means Thompson and Grant have the same impact? Get the f*ck outta here. :oldlol:



Stop playing dumb - Horace played with Shaq on that team.. Shaq wins regardless of PF -

Magic in '94 (Jeff Turner at PF)- swept in the first round.
Magic in '95 (Horace at PF)- Make it to the finals.

You literally have no argument against this, so stop wasting both of our time.



There's nothing wrong with saying Oakley/Rodman/Thorpe > Horace... How does that make it seem like I haven't seen them play?.. And since you're a passive aggressive **** like sdot thadon and can't say what you mean upfront, i'm going to assume you don't think these guys are bangers - they ARE nothing more than bangers (defense, rebounding, bang inside).

You had no idea that Grant had a mid range game and made it sound like he played like Tristan Thompson... AKA you clearly never actually saw him play. Nothing worse than a bullshitter who talks out of his ass. :oldlol:

[3ball]

Horace Grant as the Bulls' second option sans Jordan, the Bulls won 55 games

Once he left, the Bulls regressed into a team that barely maintained .500

When he joined the Magic, they went from one and done to the finals.


You seem like a somewhat intelligent guy, so I'm surprised that your arguments make no distinction between star players and role players.. Unlike star players, role players are replaceable.

ANY double-double PF will have a positive impact on a team that didn't have one previously.. It's not a surprise the Bulls fell off after losing a double-double PF without replacement.. Likewise, it's no surprise that Orlando did better after replaceing Jeff Turner with a double-double guy - again - no surprise.

Btw, the Bulls' loss of a double-double PF wasn't the only reason they fell off.. They also fell off because they had lost in the playoffs, piercing the veil of invincibility.. So the swagger of being 3-time defending champs was gone, along with the excitement to prove what they could do without MJ.





You had no idea that Grant had a mid range game and made it sound like he played like Tristan Thompson...


WTF?... Who had no idea Grant had a mid-range game?.. Stand-still jumper is not mid-range "game", although apparently you confused it for that.

I guarantee I've seen way more NBA than you have - I've played against guys Horace played against.. even some he hasn't, like Zach Randolph, who I've dunked on 4 times in a row in a game of 1-on-1 before... Compared to me, your knowledge of the game has quite a few massive gaps (most of which can never be filled).
.

[DonDadda59]

You seem like a somewhat intelligent guy, so I'm surprised that your arguments make no distinction between star players and role players.. Unlike star players, role players are replaceable.

Spin it however you want but the facts remain- with Horace Grant as their second option, the Bulls won 55 games and made the second round sans Jordan. He leaves, the Bulls turn into a .500 level squad. He joins the Magic and they go from being swept in the first round to a finals berth.

Tristan Thompson played with Kyrie Irving and could only muster 24 and 33 wins in consecutive years. But their impact is exactly the same. :applause:





WTF?... Who had no idea Grant had a mid-range game?.. I guarantee I've seen way more NBA than you have - I've played against guys Horace played against.. even some he hasn't, like Zach Randolph, who I've dunked on 4 times in a row in a game of 1-on-1 before... Compared to me, your knowledge of the game has quite a few massive gaps (most of which can never be filled).
.

This dude here:


Also, how exactly is Grant a better player than Thompson?... They have the exact same role (finishers around the rim, NOTHING more)


are you out of your mind?

horace grant was a dunker, a banger.. he was a guy that dunked open shots and got rebounds... THAT'S IT..


how can you act like horace was skilled as a scorer in ANY WAY?...


you guys want to big-up horace grant like he was anything more than a dunker?... he had ZERO offensive game


horace never created his own shot.. he never "posted up".. he was nothing more than a 100% bird-fed player...


You clearly never saw Horace Grant play outside of a dunks-heavy highlight reel. Stop it.

[3ball]

Nothing worse than a bullshitter who talks out of his ass. :oldlol:


I don't bullshit or talk out of my ass.. I don't need to.. As for Horace having zero offensive game - it's true.. A stand-still jumper doesn't qualify as an offensive game - Bill Wennington's had offensive game then.. But regardless, we can agree to disagree on how good the 11/8 Horace was.

I had a question for you though - what do you think about the apparent reality that today's players face less defenders on the strongside because weakside floor-spreaders lure them away? (and also, without 3-point shoooting or weakside floor-spreaders, previous eras faced strongsides that were already flooded with all 5 defenders).

In case you haven't seen the posts, here's brief summary:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11360924&postcount=5


And here's examples from this year's playoffs (basically, for most of Lebron's isolations, he faces a strongside with only 1 defender, his man):

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=377123
.

[3ball]

DonDadda59 - I played against NBA players... I know what offensive game is and Horace doesn't have one...

[3ball]

You clearly never saw Horace Grant play outside of a dunks-heavy highlight reel. Stop it.


Horace had a stand-still jumpshot, a bird-fed one.. If that qualifies as offensive game to you, than just know that you're wrong.

Horace NEVER posted up or took turnaround jumpshots except for the very rare anomaly... He was simply NEVER asked to create his own shot..

Horace was 100% bird-fed, including his stand-still, mid-range jumpshots - this simply doesn't qualify as an offensive "game", which is why he only averaged 11 PPG for his career, with "high" of 15.

[DonDadda59]

DonDadda59 - I played against NBA players... I know what offensive game is and Horace doesn't have one...

Riiiiiiiiight.


Horace had a stand-still jumpshot, a bird-fed one.. If that qualifies as offensive game to you, than just know that you're wrong.

Horace NEVER posted up or took turnaround jumpshots except for the very rare anomaly... He was simply NEVER asked to create his own shot..

Horace was 100% bird-fed, including his stand-still, mid-range jumpshots - this simply doesn't qualify as an offensive "game", which is why he only averaged 11 PPG for his career, with "high" of 15.

If believing that helps you sleep tonight... run with it. But just know that I know that you're clearly bullshitting and you don't know the first thing about Horace Grant. :cheers:

[Im Still Ballin]

Stop pretending you're not 3ball

You're not fooling anyone

[DonDadda59]

That's me... I know about balling, because I am a baller

https://scontent-mia1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xft1/v/t1.0-9/10402628_10203880105742516_2062948757024347686_n.j pg?oh=58338f2272948730317d82f1723dc3ad&oe=560A336E



Oh, there's me again... that's carlos arroyo in the background looking on... raja bell is in the background somewhere.. JUCO POY Darius Cook is in picture too - hes a pro in south america now


https://scontent-mia1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/10365982_10203881636820792_6374383594081119593_n.j pg?oh=1a7a0d2cdff15341576fb6a4857b48c0&oe=5604E797

Right. Right.

But you never did watch Horace Grant play basketball so.... :confusedshrug:

And it looks like you were 100% bird fed, no offensive game, only dunks. Interchangeable. :coleman:

[3ball]

And it looks like you were 100% bird fed, no offensive game, only dunks. Interchangeable. :coleman:


this is true - i was just a play-finisher at the respective level I played at.. a bird-fed player.

and similar to horace, i had a good mid-range, stand-still jumpshot.. but that didn't qualify as offensive "game"..

you know who else had a great mid-range jumpshot?... Bill Wennington.. I mean, it was money... solid athlete too, even by NBA standards.. he used to hammer it down on guys.

[3ball]

.
1) Shumpert/JR Smith > Paxson/BJ Armstrong

2) Mosgov > Cartwright

3) Tristan Thompson = Horace Grant

4) Kyrie < Pippen


Cavs win 2-1, with 1 draw... Even if you think Horace's bird-fed 12/8 > Tristan's bird-fed 9/10, that makes it 2-2... and Delladova > Kerr


1) Kyrie > Klay

2) JR Smith > Barnes

3) Shumpert = Iggy

4) Mosgov = Bogut

5) Tristan Thompson < Draymond Green


2-1 in Cavs favor again, with 2 draws.. Even if you put Bogut > Mosgov, it's still 2-2 with 1 draw.. Bottom line: the rosters are close, so the Cavs shouldn't be treated like they don't have a comparable roster.
.

[97 bulls]

I think its kinda difficult to compare the bigs now to bigs of the past. Look who Grant had to battle vs Thomson. Grant battled Barkley, Ewing and Oakley, Buck Williams, Brad Daugherty, Larry Nance. I could go on.

I've said this before, put the mediocre bigs of yesterday today like Cartwright, and theyd be in the upper echelon today. Roy Hibbert is a black Luc Longley. Just softer. And he has an all-star appearance.

[AintNoSunshine]

If we can be real for once:

MJ > Bron
Pippen >>>>>>> hobbled Irving who can barely run
Phil>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Blatt
Grant>> TT
JR is volatile as fk but fine > Pax
Then their only PG available is some random white dude from Australia

[97 bulls]

If we can be real for once:

MJ > Bron
Pippen >>>>>>> hobbled Irving who can barely run
Phil>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Blatt
Grant>> TT
JR is volatile as fk but fine > Pax
Then their only PG available is some random white dude from Australia
I agree. What I can't understand is the need to try yo convince people that Jordan played with a bad team. I mean they won at a record level.

[24-Inch_Chrome]

Bogut is better than Mozgov you ****ing idiot. You're the only poster dumb enough to argue Mozgov > Bogut.

Klay > injured Kyrie.

[Cleverness]

1993-1994 Bulls: 55-27 :eek:

damn.


2013-2014 Cavaliers: 33-49

If talking about current cast, then by OP's logic
Deng/Jack > Shumpert
Waiters >= JR
Irving > injured Irving

[Fire Colangelo]

OP doesn't even realize that Horace Grant was named to an all star team putting up 15/11/3 in 1994 as the 2nd option of his 55 win team when Jordan was busy playing baseball :lol

he only played good when he played with jordan though :lol :lol :lol

not only 3ball is ****ing pathetic, these kobe stans (tpols, imkobe) are even more pathetic agreeing with him.

[3ball]

1993-1994 Bulls: 55-27 :eek:

damn.


2013-2014 Cavaliers: 33-49

If talking about current cast, then by OP's logic
Deng/Jack > Shumpert
Waiters >= JR
Irving > injured Irving
Would you agree with the following:

Kyrie > Harper

JR Smith < Jordan

Lebron > Pippen

Tristan < Rodman

Mosgov > Longley


3-2 Cavs... 2015 Cavs talent > 1996 Bulls talent.. What am I missing?.. Delladova > Kerr?

[plowking]

People are underrating Shump on here.

Dude is a beast. Finally reaching that potential that was talked about prior to the draft. After watching him in NY, I would have never wanted him on my team, but now with Cleveland, he looks a completely different player.

Was he always able to create off the dribble as well as he has at Cleveland? He seems to have a decent handle on him, and good strength. He should get to the rim more. Probably my only knock on him.

[3ball]

Shumpert's offense is quite good, and people just ignore his defense when comparing him to say Paxson or BJ Armstrong.
.

[3ball]

OP doesn't even realize that Horace Grant was named to an all star team putting up 15/11/3 in 1994 as the 2nd option of his 55 win team when Jordan was busy playing baseball :lol


You're forgetting that Horace Grant's career averages are 11/8/1 - don't act like he's unique in his ability to have a career high, in this case 15/11/1.

Those numbers are average for a career high compared to his peers, such as Tyrone Hill (14/11), Clifford Robinson (20/7), Sam Perkins (17/9), Dale Davis (12/11), etc.

So don't overhype it.. I haven't checked, but I'm sure the guys listed above and plenty other bird-fed, role players were also 2nd options... It actually proves the Bulls were far from a super-team - their 3rd option was only capable of averaging 15 PPG in a 2nd option role (unlike say, Bosh getting 20+ PPG)..

If you're losing it over Horace's 15/11/1 career high, or his 11/8/1 career averages, then what could you possibly think of Mo William's 17-18 PPG and 6 APG for 3 years straight?
.

[Cleverness]

People are underrating Shump on here.

Dude is a beast. Finally reaching that potential that was talked about prior to the draft. After watching him in NY, I would have never wanted him on my team, but now with Cleveland, he looks a completely different player.

Was he always able to create off the dribble as well as he has at Cleveland? He seems to have a decent handle on him, and good strength. He should get to the rim more. Probably my only knock on him.

Do you feel that LeBron's current supporting cast is equivalent to OP's MJ cast?

[Cocaine80s]

MJ would miss the playoffs if he had Lebron's team

[3ball]

1993-1994 Bulls: 55-27 :eek:

damn.


To accurately compare that supporting cast to Lebron, the circumstances must be the same.

So Lebron must 3-peat and then leave the team while everyone was still in their uber-prime - neither of those has ever happened.. Of course, the team he leaves must have a strategic advantage on the entire league (the triangle - the best spacing strategy known at that time) - the team has perfected this competitively-advantaged system over 3 championship runs and now that MJ (Lebron) isn't there to break the offense all the time, the team will now execute it better than ever before..

.. and they'll do it with the championship experience and swagger of being 3-time defending champs, with a chip on their shoulder of something to prove.

So to compare the 1994 team to any of Lebron's supporting casts, all these criteria must be met.. starting with the 3-peat.





2013-2014 Cavaliers: 33-49

If talking about current cast, then by OP's logic
Deng/Jack > Shumpert
Waiters >= JR
Irving > injured Irving


Love
Mosgov (def leader of playoffs, plus 10 PPG.. 2nd MVP behind Lebron)

You forgot these guys.

[Fire Colangelo]

You're forgetting that Horace Grant's career averages are 11/8/1 - don't act like he's unique in his ability to have a career high, in this case 15/11/1.

Those numbers are average for a career high compared to his peers, such as Tyrone Hill (14/11), Clifford Robinson (20/7), Sam Perkins (17/9), Dale Davis (12/11), etc.

So don't overhype it.. I haven't checked, but I'm sure the guys listed above and plenty other bird-fed, role players were also 2nd options... It actually proves the Bulls were far from a super-team - their 3rd option was only capable of averaging 15 PPG in a 2nd option role (unlike say, Bosh getting 20+ PPG)..

If you're losing it over Horace's 15/11/1 career high, or his 11/8/1 career averages, then what could you possibly think of Mo William's 17-18 PPG and 6 APG for 3 years straight?
.

Horace Grant just happened to average his career high the moment MJ decided to play baseball?

How can his success be attributed to MJ when his career high and sole all star apperance came without? What does that tell you? It means that MJ was actually holding him back.

Interesting you bring up Mo Williams, because Mo Williams had his sole all star appearance when he was playing with LeBron. And fell off hard once LeBron left.

You look at LeBron's squad minus Irving:

JR Smith - labeled cancer, chucker, no heart, etc in NYK
Shumpert - written off & cast away after his recent injury
Mozgov - Decent player in denver nothing special (now the 2nd MVP in the playoffs according to you)
Thompson - All of a sudden became Horace Grant level this season after tons of criticism in the past couple of years

What's the common denominator? They all started playing with LeBron.

[LeBird]

Does anyone know 3ball personally? I'm not even joking here, but someone needs to put this kid on suicide watch. If Lebron wins this season his parents will never forgive us.

[SpaceJammeR]

Horace Grant just happened to average his career high the moment MJ decided to play baseball?

How can his success be attributed to MJ when his career high and sole all star apperance came without? What does that tell you? It means that MJ was actually holding him back.

Interesting you bring up Mo Williams, because Mo Williams had his sole all star appearance when he was playing with LeBron. And fell off hard once LeBron left.

You look at LeBron's squad minus Irving:

JR Smith - labeled cancer, chucker, no heart, etc in NYK
Shumpert - written off & cast away after his recent injury
Mozgov - Decent player in denver nothing special (now the 2nd MVP in the playoffs according to you)
Thompson - All of a sudden became Horace Grant level this season after tons of criticism in the past couple of years

What's the common denominator? They all started playing with LeBron.

exactly!!

[3ball]

Horace Grant just happened to average his career high the moment MJ decided to play baseball?


Horace, Pippen and Kukoc's stats barely changed when MJ left, whereas Bosh, Wade, and Love all take MASSIVE leaps when Lebron leaves.. No comparison.. But keep reaching for straws.

And who are you trying to fool?.. According to Horace Grant himself, he would be just another player if he hadn't played alongside MJ: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_aYOQVWSCY&t=14m43s





Interesting you bring up Mo Williams, because Mo Williams had his sole all star appearance when he was playing with LeBron. And fell off hard once LeBron left.


It was the natural trajectory of Mo's career.. Mo's best seasons were the 2 years BEFORE he played with Lebron, when he put up 17 PPG, 6 APG on 48%, as opposed to 17 PPG, 4 APG, 46% with Lebron.

And again, look no further than Love, Bosh and Wade to see how Lebron's presence craters his teammates stats.
.

[Dr.J4ever]

If you take away James' stint with the Heat, the rosters Jordan played with were superior to anything James had to deal with .

James today is playing with borderline average players/scrubs right now really. They have useful talents like JR Smith or Shumpert, but just a few months ago, nobody wanted these guys. These players are useful playing with Lebron, but without him, they would look like, yes, the Knicks.

Cartwright and Grant were better scorers than Thompson or Mozgov. I saw Cartwright when he played for the Knicks, and after King, he was their go to guy in the low post. TT is a very good rebounder though and he seems to be peaking. So let's see.

The proof really is in the Ws/Ls for all this talk. I was surprised when the Bulls of the 90s played well without Jordan and won 55 games? They made a deep playoff run and gave Ewing's Knicks all they could handle.

All of Lebron's teams struggled after he left. And now even the supefriends Heat have struggled(clearly not in their prime though).

Bottom line, Jordan stans, better pray Lebron doesn't pull through vs. GS because if he does, the Goat talk will be deafening.:lol

[3ball]

JR Smith - labeled cancer, chucker, no heart, etc in NYK
Shumpert - written off & cast away after his recent injury
Mozgov - Decent player in denver nothing special (now the 2nd MVP in the playoffs according to you)


In 2013, JR Smith averaged 18 PPG, 5 RPG on 42% off the bench and was a leading 6th man candidate.. That's a lot better than the 12 PPG on 42% he gets as a one-dimensional floor-spreader alongside Lebron.

JR also had multiple other seasons in NY with 15+ PPG.. This notion that he's playing his best ball alongside Lebron is complete HORSESHIT... Another fabrication by the media and gay Lebron stans.

Ditto on Shumpert - he put up better numbers in NY too - it's a 100% lie that he's playing better alongside Lebron.. This notion that he's somebody that "nobody wanted" is utter nonsense.. Who wouldn't want an athletic defensive player who can get double figure PPG?

As for Mosgov, this is his first time starting in his career.. All this bluster about guys playing better alongside Lebron is complete hot air - Love, Wade, and Bosh all played SIGNIFICANTLY worse alongside Lebron.
.

[IGOTGAME]

Horace Grant just happened to average his career high the moment MJ decided to play baseball?

How can his success be attributed to MJ when his career high and sole all star apperance came without? What does that tell you? It means that MJ was actually holding him back.

Interesting you bring up Mo Williams, because Mo Williams had his sole all star appearance when he was playing with LeBron. And fell off hard once LeBron left.

You look at LeBron's squad minus Irving:

JR Smith - labeled cancer, chucker, no heart, etc in NYK
Shumpert - written off & cast away after his recent injury
Mozgov - Decent player in denver nothing special (now the 2nd MVP in the playoffs according to you)
Thompson - All of a sudden became Horace Grant level this season after tons of criticism in the past couple of years

What's the common denominator? They all started playing with LeBron.

Havent been a fan of Lebron but this is all true. The guy demonstrating his greatness right now.

[K Xerxes]

Grant = Thompson :facepalm

You are a gaping asshole 3ball. We both know this.

[3ball]

JR Smith or Shumpert, but just a few months ago, nobody wanted these guys.


This is easily proven as BS - both of these players had significantly better numbers in NY... JR Smith averaged 18 PPG off the bench for the Knicks in 2013 and was a leading 6th man candidate...

He's not playing that well alongside Lebron - he's just 12 PPG floor-spreader alongside Lebron.
.

[TripleA]

Clown they were garbage the worst team in the league a couple months ago now their winning games shut up..:mad:

[3ball]

.
PLAYOFF AVERAGES THRU 30 YEARS OLD:

Jordan: 34.7 PPG / 6.6 APG / 50.1% FG
Lebron: 27.9 PPG / 6.5 APG / 48.1% FG


FINALS AVERAGES THRU 30 YEARS OLD:

Jordan: 36.3 PPG / 7.9 APG / 52.6% FG
Lebron: 24.1 PPG / 6.3 APG / 46.1% FG

Source: basketball-reference.com
.

[3ball]

Grant = Thompson


Even if you say Grant > Thompson, the rosters are still close.

because Kyrie > BJ Armstrong and Mosgov = Cartwright.

The only other positions are MJ > JR Smith and Lebron > Pippen.

Of course, we haven't even considered Shumpert and Dellaladova, who are better than anyone on Bulls bench.

[TripleA]

Kyrie is injured dummy.

[3ball]

If you take away James' stint with the Heat, the rosters Jordan played with were superior to anything James had to deal with .


Lebron's Cleveland rosters from 2006-2010 were solid and FAR better than MJ's rosters in the 80's.. Of course, no one remembers who Granville Waiters was, so just look how much better Lebron's 2007 roster is than Kobe's in 2006:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10694826&postcount=3





JR Smith or Shumpert, but just a few months ago, nobody wanted these guys.


Pure lies - both of these players had significantly better numbers in NY... JR Smith averaged 18 PPG off the bench for the Knicks in 2013 and was a leading 6th man candidate...

He's not playing that well alongside Lebron - he's just 12 PPG floor-spreader alongside Lebron.





1994 Bulls won 55 games? They made a deep playoff run and gave Ewing's Knicks all they could handle.


The 1994 Bulls (that still had horace grant) made the same "deep" run that this year's 55-win Memphis Grizzlies made...

Essentially, MJ came back and took the 2015 Grizzlies to a 3-peat and dynasty, while averaging 30 PPG and getting 2 MVPs, 3 FMVP's.. Of course, in reality, MJ would never need to average 30 PPG to 3-peat with the Griz, because they have way more talent than any of those Bulls teams did.. :confusedshrug:

[TripleA]

3brick your wrong deal with it.

[Dr.J4ever]

@3ball"Lebron's Cleveland rosters from 2006-2010 were solid and FAR better than MJ's rosters in the 80's.. Of course, no one remembers who Granville Waiters was, so just look how much better Lebron's 2007 roster is than Kobe's in 2006:"

Yes, I forgot about the 80s. MJ played with some pretty poor rosters in the 80s. I remember Waiters and does anyone remember Dave Corzine? Wow, he was one of worst centers in NBA history.

However, during the the latter part of the 80s and 90s, MJ played with an increasingly better roster every year. I would argue they were better than James' teammates with the Cavs then and now.

BTW, even today's Cavs roster when healthy is overrated. Without James, this team, even when healthy, might struggle making the playoffs. Love, who is overrated, or Kyrie has never gotten to the playoffs, and the others are just along for the ride. Not impressed at all with Love as a player. He can't play defense, he's an average post up player, and his best quality is shooting 3s and stretching the floor as a PF. Not my type.

Yes, JR and Iman are decent gets, but as I said, they are Knicks, and we know what the Knicks have been lately. JR's 2013 stats seemed like ancient history just a few months back. Both these guys are about to be dragged to the Finals, which is a level neither player has ever reached.

Forget about the stats, these former Knicks are playing great and completely fulfilling their roles on this Cavs team. Of course, it's entirely due to James. No question.

[Koresh]

What the f*ck are you going on about? :oldlol:

No one is questioning Jordan's GOAT status or impact. But the fact remains- with Horace Grant as the Bulls' second option sans Jordan, the Bulls won 55 games and took the eventual East champions to 7 games in the second round. Once he left, the Bulls regressed into a team that barely maintained .500 level basketball before Jordan returned. When he joined the Magic, they went from one and done to the finals.

But you're here making believe that Tristan Thompson playing with Kyrie Irving and winning 24-33 games means Thompson and Grant have the same impact? Get the f*ck outta here. :oldlol:




Magic in '94 (Jeff Turner at PF)- swept in the first round.
Magic in '95 (Horace at PF)- Make it to the finals.

You literally have no argument against this, so stop wasting both of our time.




You had no idea that Grant had a mid range game and made it sound like he played like Tristan Thompson... AKA you clearly never actually saw him play. Nothing worse than a bullshitter who talks out of his ass. :oldlol:

Dude, you're better than this. I have seen you literally ether half of this forum in one thread, but you are taking it easy on 3ball?!?!?!:biggums:

Listen, 3ball is a fraud. He is what I would call a "YouTuber." He is/was too young to watch Michael Jordan play live, so he went on YouTube in 2009-2011 and watched nothing but Jordan highlights. Jordan didn't carry scrubs to the finals. He is downplaying damn good players and these same players are hall of famers or future hall of famers. No one with an IQ higher than 100 would think the Bulls cast is worse than the current Cavs, no one. It's blasphemy. Horace Grant is getting highly disrespected in this thread, by the way.

It's obvious he has never seen any of these men play ball on live television. The irony of all this is his username is 3ball but constantly says the 3-pt shot has ruined basketball because of the spacing and it eliminated "paint camping" and all of this nonsense. He doesn't give a f*ck about modern basketball.

The fact this ******ger hasn't been permabanned is beyond me. He spams the same threads 24/7. He trolls this whole forum. He's the kennethgriffin of MJ. We all thought Euroleague was awful? Euroleague is Teddy Ruxpin compared to 3ball.

Just like the Atlanta Hawks, 3ball is a pretender. He's an elaborate troll with little basketball knowledge. He's the 1998-2003 2Pac fan. He found out about this guy that he never knew existed and he went online to research 24/7, so he thinks he knows everything but he clearly knows shit. The day this cancer gets eradicated from this forum is the day this forum gets better. I have never seen a poster like this. 3ball does this shit on other forums too, but since the mods on here are so laid back or lazy, whatever, they let him loose.

Hypocritically, stop giving this ass attention. He feeds off of this. :banghead: It's the best time of the NBA season, the playoffs, but this shit stain spams about MJ. Oh yeah, deep down inside, he's a LeBron stan too. He's a scared puppy dog. He says this shit like he's not affected or mad about getting ethered in every thread but he is going nuts right now.

3ball is having all types of health problems come next week. He can't fathom LeBron getting a 3rd ring, 3rd FMVP and admiration from the media. He has been on meltdown mode ever since Game 4 of the Boston series. If you think this is bad, wait until June. I'm going to have my caramel popcorn in hand watching this cocksmith meltdown :roll:

[Foster5k]

Now, I know why his name is 3ball.

Jordan has two balls and this guy is hanging on Jordan's nuts so hard that he's literary Jordan's 3rd ball. Hence the name 3ball.

[ThickassGlasses]

This thread confirms that 3ball is in fact a Bron stan's alt, that just says off the wall shit "propping up Jordan" but always comparing him to Bron.

If you read 3Ball's BS without actually trying to comprehend what he is putting out, it's the same overlying message... LeBron is so good the only person comparable is Jordan.

Then he goes off with this thread that proves he never even watched Jordan's Bulls while getting every other poster to argue LeBron's case.


:applause: :applause: :applause:

[Kvnzhangyay]

Dude, you're better than this. I have seen you literally ether half of this forum in one thread, but you are taking it easy on 3ball?!?!?!:biggums:

Listen, 3ball is a fraud. He is what I would call a "YouTuber." He is/was too young to watch Michael Jordan play live, so he went on YouTube in 2009-2011 and watched nothing but Jordan highlights. Jordan didn't carry scrubs to the finals. He is downplaying damn good players and these same players are hall of famers or future hall of famers. No one with an IQ higher than 100 would think the Bulls cast is worse than the current Cavs, no one. It's blasphemy. Horace Grant is getting highly disrespected in this thread, by the way.

It's obvious he has never seen any of these men play ball on live television. The irony of all this is his username is 3ball but constantly says the 3-pt shot has ruined basketball because of the spacing and it eliminated "paint camping" and all of this nonsense. He doesn't give a f*ck about modern basketball.

The fact this ******ger hasn't been permabanned is beyond me. He spams the same threads 24/7. He trolls this whole forum. He's the kennethgriffin of MJ. We all thought Euroleague was awful? Euroleague is Teddy Ruxpin compared to 3ball.

Just like the Atlanta Hawks, 3ball is a pretender. He's an elaborate troll with little basketball knowledge. He's the 1998-2003 2Pac fan. He found out about this guy that he never knew existed and he went online to research 24/7, so he thinks he knows everything but he clearly knows shit. The day this cancer gets eradicated from this forum is the day this forum gets better. I have never seen a poster like this. 3ball does this shit on other forums too, but since the mods on here are so laid back or lazy, whatever, they let him loose.

Hypocritically, stop giving this ass attention. He feeds off of this. :banghead: It's the best time of the NBA season, the playoffs, but this shit stain spams about MJ. Oh yeah, deep down inside, he's a LeBron stan too. He's a scared puppy dog. He says this shit like he's not affected or mad about getting ethered in every thread but he is going nuts right now.

3ball is having all types of health problems come next week. He can't fathom LeBron getting a 3rd ring, 3rd FMVP and admiration from the media. He has been on meltdown mode ever since Game 4 of the Boston series. If you think this is bad, wait until June. I'm going to have my caramel popcorn in hand watching this cocksmith meltdown :roll:

this is probably true

[Straight_Ballin]

This cavs team is stacked. With Bron choking as usual with his 0-10, the damn game was tied. Fvck this ish brantard logic that Bron is "carrying" this team. Team is so damn stacked they can sit Irving without any worries and they even play Matrix.

If Bron becomes 2/6 then the tears will taste good. Nothing more. Nothing less.

[24-Inch_Chrome]

This cavs team is stacked. With Bron choking as usual with his 0-10, the damn game was tied. Fvck this ish brantard logic that Bron is "carrying" this team. Team is so damn stacked they can sit Irving without any worries and they even play Matrix.

If Bron becomes 2/6 then the tears will taste good. Nothing more. Nothing less.

They're not stacked. Golden State, as an example, is stacked. Cleveland has a good supporting cast, no doubt about that, but they're missing Kevin Love and Kyrie. The actual quality level of Cleveland is between where the Bron haters and stans view it; haters think they're stacked, stans think they're shit, they're a good group of players somewhere between those two extremes. Closer to the former with Love/Irving at 100%.

He wasn't scoring but was able to complete a triple double in the 3rd by making passes and grabbing rebounds, he's obviously still having an impact on the game despite not scoring.

When you make a post like that it just undermines whatever credibility you have and makes you look like a pure hater whose opinions are about as valuable as those of Bron stans.

[swagga]

Dude, you're better than this. I have seen you literally ether half of this forum in one thread, but you are taking it easy on 3ball?!?!?!:biggums:

Listen, 3ball is a fraud. He is what I would call a "YouTuber." He is/was too young to watch Michael Jordan play live, so he went on YouTube in 2009-2011 and watched nothing but Jordan highlights. Jordan didn't carry scrubs to the finals. He is downplaying damn good players and these same players are hall of famers or future hall of famers. No one with an IQ higher than 100 would think the Bulls cast is worse than the current Cavs, no one. It's blasphemy. Horace Grant is getting highly disrespected in this thread, by the way.

It's obvious he has never seen any of these men play ball on live television. The irony of all this is his username is 3ball but constantly says the 3-pt shot has ruined basketball because of the spacing and it eliminated "paint camping" and all of this nonsense. He doesn't give a f*ck about modern basketball.

The fact this ******ger hasn't been permabanned is beyond me. He spams the same threads 24/7. He trolls this whole forum. He's the kennethgriffin of MJ. We all thought Euroleague was awful? Euroleague is Teddy Ruxpin compared to 3ball.

Just like the Atlanta Hawks, 3ball is a pretender. He's an elaborate troll with little basketball knowledge. He's the 1998-2003 2Pac fan. He found out about this guy that he never knew existed and he went online to research 24/7, so he thinks he knows everything but he clearly knows shit. The day this cancer gets eradicated from this forum is the day this forum gets better. I have never seen a poster like this. 3ball does this shit on other forums too, but since the mods on here are so laid back or lazy, whatever, they let him loose.

Hypocritically, stop giving this ass attention. He feeds off of this. :banghead: It's the best time of the NBA season, the playoffs, but this shit stain spams about MJ. Oh yeah, deep down inside, he's a LeBron stan too. He's a scared puppy dog. He says this shit like he's not affected or mad about getting ethered in every thread but he is going nuts right now.

3ball is having all types of health problems come next week. He can't fathom LeBron getting a 3rd ring, 3rd FMVP and admiration from the media. He has been on meltdown mode ever since Game 4 of the Boston series. If you think this is bad, wait until June. I'm going to have my caramel popcorn in hand watching this cocksmith meltdown :roll:

glad there are other sane people posting here.

I have to say that 3ball is an exceptional troll for his unidimensionality. He really puts in the effort. He has an underrated creativity too as he takes information from other posters and warps it to fit his agenda. That and GOAT dedication, not even prime euroleague came close to this.