Lebron is sweeping a 60 win team without his 2nd and 3rd options

[Akrazotile]

:oldlol:

Oh, and lets not forget Varajao has been one of the leagues best defensive bigs and hes not playing either.


:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:


Not a good time to be a hater, is it? :roll:

[ISHGoat]

:oldlol:

Oh, and lets not forget Varajao has been one of the leagues best defensive bigs and hes not playing either.


:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:


Not a good time to be a hater, is it? :roll:

haters have nothing for ammo left except "east is week".

with how much that argument is being brought up, youd think lebron was playing against 6'3 white guys like in the 60s or something :roll:

terrible times for lebron haters

[Quickening]

I remember a thread stating lebron hadnt beat enough 50 win teams in the playoffs... he is now dismantling a 60 win team without Love and Irving :lol

Alpha

[Magic 32]

http://content.mycutegraphics.com/graphics/month/june/june-summer-month.png

[MP.Trey]

Irrelevant. Nothing LeBron does is relevant unless he wins a championship that year, 2/5, etc

[sd3035]

haters have nothing for ammo left except "east is week".

with how much that argument is being brought up, youd think lebron was playing against 6'3 white guys like in the 60s or something :roll:

terrible times for lebron haters


If they said that, they would be as stupid as you

[HelterSkelter]

It's like they're gonna die if they praise LeBron... or to even be objective.

[Taller than CP3]

If they said that, they would be as stupid as you

:roll: :roll:

[Pointguard]

He's been killing it. That is unquestionable.

[ImKobe]

Hawks are missing Korver, Horford got ejected on a bullshit call in the first half and Carroll is playing injured, Thabo out for the year

but let's act like Cavs are the only team facing injuries, and let's not act like the rest of the team didn't give them 77 points on better shooting efficiency than Bran and how he was essentially carried to OT with a terrible 4th quarter.

[MP.Trey]

Hawks are missing Korver, Horford got ejected on a bullshit call in the first half and Carroll is playing injured, Thabo out for the year

but let's act like Cavs are the only team facing injuries, and let's not act like the rest of the team didn't give them 77 points on better shooting efficiency than Bran and how he was essentially carried to OT with a terrible 4th quarter.
Has terrible 1st and 4th quarters.

Still finishes with 37/18/13.

Sign of a great player, no?

[Magic 32]

Has terrible 1st and 4th quarters.

Still finishes with 37/18/13.

Sign of a great player, no?

Sign of 55 iso's

[MP.Trey]

Sign of 55 iso's
55 iso's for a great player.

[Magic 32]

55 iso's for a great player.

Not going to beat the Warriors with iso's

[Magic 32]

Context people, come on.

LeBron's all around game, IE rebounding, and passing has been great. Really great. As has been his leadership, and attitude. No denying. Defense has been inconsistent, especially not at 2011 - 2013 levels. He's 3rd in the league in post season assists per game. He's playing PG mainly, even when Kyrie was out there.

Irving has been hobbled since the end of the 1st round. And Love has been out completely since the 1st round. He has had to carry a much larger burden, yes. Kudos to Bron.

He still has had JR Smith, and Shumpert. Two very talented guys, one on both sides of the ball, who have been playing pretty good. And all things considering, even guys like Delladova are playing way beyond expectations to provide additional help.

All that said, LeBron has shot absolutely horrendously all post season. Without prime Wade, Bosh, and gluttony of three point shooters to space the floor he has looked so far removed from those padded FG% LeBron stans hyped up from 2011 - 2014 it isn't even funny.

Yes, he faced a great man defender in Butler in the 2nd round, but Jimmy had to use a lot of his energy offensively as well, so he didn't even see the best form of defense from Butler either.

Everytime LeBron ISOs, it isn't even a sure thing he can score. You can see the visible decline in his athleticism, and even at times his skill set to score the ball.

Then last night his putrid shooting performance while still winning? It speaks to how pathetic the Eastern Conference has been several years running, exception being 2011, this year possibly being the worst since the 1999 - 2003 era.

This Hawks team was never legit. I said it all the way pack in January that the Cavs would beat them in the Conference Finals. They are molly whopping them without their second two best players. Which also speaks to how stacked Cleveland is roster wise relative to competition. But Atlanta always was a joke, or a regular season fluke. Just like Thib's coached Bulls teams. They show all their cards during the season, and don't have the talent or extra gear come more difficult times of the season.

Let's not overhype what LeBron is doing right now. He can't score at a high volume, on decent efficiency to save his life right now. He's facing a hobbled Hawks team that was never legit to begin with ... it's impressive to an extent, but at the same time not really.

If he continues shooting, or scoring like this, and Kyrie is hobbled or out v.s. Golden State. We are about to look at 2 for 6 for championships, and the Cavs will get swept in the Finals.

:applause:

[Straight_Ballin]

:oldlol:

Oh, and lets not forget Varajao has been one of the leagues best defensive bigs and hes not playing either.


:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:


Not a good time to be a hater, is it? :roll:

Kyrie is perfectly fine to play, they are just resting him. What this means is that the team is so stacked (no need to even play Kyrie and they are playing Matrix) that if Bron only musters up a 2/6, he's an even bigger failure than everyone thought he was.

Enjoy your thread backfire.

[HOoopCityJones]

Lebron been balling , no doubt but with how weak The East has proved itself to be it's a fuccing travesty he's dominating like this with half his core Teammates missing. I'll be a little more impressed once he does this against GSW to be honest.

[dubeta]

I love how mad BOTH Jordan and Kobe stans are, the damage control is hilarious :lol


Deep down they know Jordan/Kobe couldn't do this, not even close. Best case they lose to the Bulls in 6.

[Magic 32]

damage control is hilarious :lol


Indeed

[ImKobe]

Has terrible 1st and 4th quarters.

Still finishes with 37/18/13.

Sign of a great player, no?

He better have those numbers when he has the ball for the majority of the game :confusedshrug:, I'm sure those 23 misses gave him plenty of offensive rebounding opportunities, the 37 points came off 37 field goal attempts and he had 6 turnovers to 13 assists, which is hardly considered "great".

He's always been able to fill up the stat sheet but history shows us that he doesn't end up winning a title when he's dominating the ball to such an extent so if I was a Cavs fan, I wouldn't be that optimistic about it. I mean, a stat line like that from Lebron needed an OT victory at home versus a team that has had trouble scoring all post-season and who were missing their best player for more than half the game.

You people are gassing LeBron up as the "GOAT" and shyt but when he loses in the Finals again, I don't want to hear any excuses.

He's currently putting up a career high in usage rating while his efficiency is the lowest it has been since his first Playoff appearance.

It's like AI in 2001, he's willing his team to victories against inferior competition and gets a ton of hype for it, but when it's time to play a real team, his style of play will get exposed. And that's not even because he isn't a good enough of a player to "single-handedly" win a game or two against Golden State in the Finals, it's just that he doesn't give his teammates enough opportunities in the 2nd halves and his ball-dominant style of play takes way too much energy out of him that he will find himself gassed against a team that utilizes all of their players.

Yeah, you can say that Kobe was a chucker and he wasn't the most efficient player in the league, but he didn't dominate the ball like this. He took a lot of shots and hogged the ball in 4th quarters, but he let his teammates make plays as well, he didn't try to be a facilitator on every possession. That is why I am not buying into this hype and that's why I believe the Cavs will get exposed in the Finals. Not enough team work. He has an off night or starts off slow and Warriors go on big runs. It's inevitable.

[HOoopCityJones]

I love how mad BOTH Jordan and Kobe stans are, the damage control is hilarious :lol


Deep down they know Jordan/Kobe couldn't do this, not even close. Best case they lose to the Bulls in 6.

Prime Jordan and Kobe would own the pathetic East of the last three years.

[aj1987]

All that said, LeBron has shot absolutely horrendously all post season. Without the transition offense from forced turnovers, and without prime Wade, Bosh, and gluttony of three point shooters to space the floor in the half court he has looked so far removed from those padded FG% LeBron stans hyped up from 2011 - 2014 it isn't even funny.
LeBron's 2 most efficient (#2 and #3) Playoff runs were with the Cav's.

[SamuraiSWISH]

It's like AI in 2001, he's willing his team to victories against inferior competition and gets a ton of hype for it, but when it's time to play a real team, his style of play will get exposed.
Iverson was the only player to hand the 2001 Lakers their only L of the post season.

:facepalm

[ImKobe]

I love how mad BOTH Jordan and Kobe stans are, the damage control is hilarious :lol


Deep down they know Jordan/Kobe couldn't do this, not even close. Best case they lose to the Bulls in 6.

http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/14kwrhk.gif

What?

They couldn't beat a below .500 team and a 50-32 Chicago team that only got one healthy game out of it's best player? The same Chicago team that struggled to put up 80 points in most games? With bad knees Rose chucking the hell out of that ball?

[24-Inch_Chrome]

You people are gassing LeBron up as the "GOAT" and shyt but when he loses in the Finals again, I don't want to hear any excuses.



Literally no serious poster says that. :no:

I would say don't waste your time arguing with trolls but it's basically fighting fire with fire.

[jayfan]

Better *

[Straight_Ballin]

If team wasn't stacked, Irving would be playing!!

Now hold the L and realize that if bron goes 2/6 you will be switching to your Curry avatar. Brontard bandwagoners probably already have that shit saved in photoshop just in case....

So insecure, and so shook they are.

[ImKobe]

Iverson was the only player to hand the 2001 Lakers their only L of the post season.

:facepalm

It was also the only game of the Playoffs where Kobe had an off-night, where he had the lowest points, highest turnovers and worst FG% of that whole run.

And like I said, Lebron will be good enough to win a game or two for the Cavs but at the end of the day, it's a TEAM game and Warriors are healthy and are the far better TEAM. Not to mention that they have the greatest shooter, who is also going to be one of the top 5 point guards of all-time.

[Magic 32]

I love SBnation :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

Lebron is proving, yet again, that one man can carry a team to the NBA Finals, provided that man is LeBron James and the conference is the East.

[1~Gibson~1]

"...but the Cavz iz stakked doe"

"...LeEast"

[you have now reached the bottom of the excuse barrel.\]

[sd3035]

I guess we'll ignore the fact that it's a d-league conference, the best players on the opposing teams are injured/ejected etc, and the refs are the 6th man for the cavs :roll:

[sd3035]

don't forget the 42% shooting and 5 turnovers per game :roll:

[Straight_Ballin]

It was also the only game of the Playoffs where Kobe had an off-night, where he had the lowest points, highest turnovers and worst FG% of that whole run.

And like I said, Lebron will be good enough to win a game or two for the Cavs but at the end of the day, it's a TEAM game and Warriors are healthy and are the far better TEAM. Not to mention that they have the greatest shooter, who is also going to be one of the top 5 point guards of all-time.

That was due to AI's trash talk, but he wanted to have a 'fair' match up the rest of the series so he stopped telling shaq and kobe how much they sucked for losing MVP to his 6'1, 165 lb ass. Once that happened, they got their self esteem back and won the other 4 games.

[1~Gibson~1]

I guess we'll ignore the fact that it's a d-league conference, the best players on the opposing teams are injured/ejected etc, and the refs are the 6th man for the cavs :roll: Opponents include:

Chicago Bulls - Lead the league in 2014-15 Playoffs Opponent Shooting % and PPG.
Derrick Rose*
Joakim Noah
Pau Gasol*

Atlanta Hawks - Best Record in the East, 60 win team, 4 - All stars.
Jeff Teague*
Al Horford*
Paul Milsap*

Sounds like a piece of cake if going against a healthy Cavs team, but with no Kevin Love (starting PF), no Anderson Varejao (starting Center), and no Kyrie Irving (starting PG) Lebron has had to play PG, SF, and PF/C :eek:

[HOoopCityJones]

Let's put the Teams aside for a sec, every player that is worth a damn plays out West.

Who has Lebron faced in these playoffs that is a comparable match up nightmare compared to himself? A hobbled Rose? Rookie Marcus Smart? Al Horford?

Jimmy Butler is who most people would say and he's no where near the quintessential All-star talent. He's not a legitimate scoring threat who you have to worry will drop 30 like the Westbrook's of the world. He's a more defensively sound Wesley Matthews at this point.

[Magic 32]

Opponents include:

Chicago Bulls - Lead the league in 2014-15 Playoffs Opponent Shooting
Derrick Rose*
Joakim Noah
Pau Gasol*

Atlanta Hawks - Best Record in the East, 60 win team, 4 - All stars
Jeff Teague*
Al Horford*
Paul Milsap*



:facepalm

[longtime lurker]

He's doing this in the East :oldlol: Are we supposed to be impressed?

[Pointguard]

If Love is hitting his shot, he is a real compliment to Lebron but for whatever reasons that wasn't happening much. Kyrie... I don't know. One could make an argument that'he's in the way. Wiggins would have been better because of the defense, speed and matchup problems. I'd rather have a healthy Korver than Kyrie to compliment Lebron. But Lebron should have known because he didn't get the most out of himself with Wade.

[MiseryCityTexas]

And the Hawks almost won one game without they're first option.

[1~Gibson~1]

He's doing this in the East :oldlol: Are we supposed to be impressed?He's doing this with no other all-stars... THAT is impressive.

[24-Inch_Chrome]

Let's put the Teams aside for a sec, every player that is worth a damn plays out West.

Who has Lebron faced in these playoffs that is a comparable match up nightmare compared to himself? A hobbled Rose? Rookie Marcus Smart? Al Horford?

Jimmy Butler is who most people would say and he's no where near the quintessential All-star talent. He's not a legitimate scoring threat who you have to worry will drop 30 like the Westbrook's of the world. He's a more defensively sound Wesley Matthews at this point.

Really underrating him there. He's better than Wesley Matthews on both sides of the ball. 7 RS games with 30+, 16 with 25+, 33 with 20+ (out of 65 games played). He also put up 20+ in 9 of 12 playoff games. You're right that he's no Westbrook on offense but he's a lot better than Matthews imo.

If he's at 100% I could see myself taking him over Klay, though I think we'll have to watch him next year to figure out whether this year was a fluke or the start of a trend.

[1~Gibson~1]

:facepalmThe Western Conference plays fake Defense (other than GS).

[Magic 32]

He's doing this against no other all-stars...

fixed

When Jeff Teague is your "star" (top 30 player?), you know that you're in trouble.

[longtime lurker]

He's doing this with no other all-stars... THAT is impressive.

Taking his competition into context it's the fvcking Hawks. He couldn't do this in the West. For comparison Houston's comeback against the Clippers looks impressive but you realize its the Clippers. They promptly go on to get thoroughly dominated in the next round by the Warriors.

[HOoopCityJones]

Really underrating him there. He's better than Wesley Matthews on both sides of the ball. 7 RS games with 30+, 16 with 25+, 33 with 20+ (out of 65 games played). He also put up 20+ in 9 of 12 playoff games. You're right that he's no Westbrook on offense but he's a lot better than Matthews imo.

If he's at 100% I could see myself taking him over Klay, though I think we'll have to watch him next year to figure out whether this year was a fluke or the start of a trend.

And yet, he wasn't a reliable scoring option for an entire series. Are people already forgetting those hilarious shooting droughts the Bulls were on? Where Dunleavy Jr, was the biggest plus on the offensive side?

Don't take the comparison so literally , the point is Butler is not the scoring or playmaking threat of half the players out west and it showed when all he and his Teammates could do was chuck jumpers and pray they go in.

[Hey Yo]

Let's not overhype what LeBron is doing right now
How is it overhype when he's looking to go to his 5th straight Finals? When will you guys recognize the toll it has to take on one's body to be the man for 12 straight reg. seasons and 9 out of 10 postseasons?

LeBrons last 10 postseasons:
http://espn.go.com/nba/team/stats/_/name/cle/year/2006/cleveland-cavaliers

http://espn.go.com/nba/team/stats/_/name/cle/year/2007/cleveland-cavaliers

http://espn.go.com/nba/team/stats/_/name/cle/year/2008/cleveland-cavaliers

http://espn.go.com/nba/team/stats/_/name/cle/year/2009/cleveland-cavaliers

http://espn.go.com/nba/team/stats/_/name/cle/year/2010/cleveland-cavaliers

http://espn.go.com/nba/team/stats/_/name/mia/year/2011/miami-heat
(led Heat in points, assists and steals in the regular season)

Then D-Wade hands the team over to LeBron in summer of 2012:
http://espn.go.com/nba/team/stats/_/name/mia/year/2012/miami-heat

http://espn.go.com/nba/team/stats/_/name/mia/year/2013/miami-heat

http://espn.go.com/nba/team/stats/_/name/mia/year/2014/miami-heat

And now back with the Cavs
http://espn.go.com/nba/team/stats/_/name/cle

Still overhyped in his 12th consecutive season?

[Indian guy]

Without the transition offense from forced turnovers, and without prime Wade, Bosh, and gluttony of three point shooters to space the floor in the half court he has looked so far removed from those padded FG% LeBron stans hyped up from 2011 - 2014 it isn't even funny.

Woah, you're letting your hate completely cloud your analysis. LeBron still plays with 2 stars and is still surrounded by a gluttony of 3pt shooters. Nothing has changed from Miami on that front. His TS% this season was only 1% below his TS% in Year 1 with Miami. Give him more time with his current teammates and for Blatt to incorporate a real offense and I fully expect his efficiency to increase like it did in Miami. As far as his poor efficiency this postseason is concerned, there are 3 reasons for it:

1) Sudden collapse in his perimeter shot. He was 37% on "jumpers" in the regular season. 29% this postseason, with a mind-boggling 16% on 3pters, down 20% from the regular season!! LeBron's pick-up in efficiency in his playoff career coincided with the big improvement in his jumper in 2009. He shot 39% on jumpers in the playoffs from 09-14, after shooting 31% from 06-08. His FG% went from low 40's from 06-08 to basically 50% from 09-14. If LeBron was shooting his normal 39% on jumpers this postseason, his FG% jumps from 42% to 49%, which is right in line with what he was shooting in Miami. Pretty sure Wade and Bosh and all those "transition baskets" didn't have anything to do with his more accurate jumper.

2) Big increase in volume because his 2 best teammates have been out or injured for much of the playoffs. Pretty self-explanatory. As volume rises with more responsibility, efficiency decreases. He shot 49% in the regular season with Love and Kyrie. 47% in the first round against Boston when both were present. 41% since. Any #1 option's efficiency is bound to plummet if you take away his team's 2nd and 3rd best offensive player.

3) Cleveland doesn't have a system in place yet, unlike 12-14 Miami. They essentially play iso-ball and naturally, the degree of difficulty of his shots greatly increased this season. Mind you, he still shot an excellent 49% in the regular season and led a #3 ranked offense(#1 post mid-season trade). Barring a big dip in physical ability, I fully expect LeBron to be a more efficient player next season as he becomes more familiar with his teammates and coaching staff. Basically, what happened in Miami.

[kennethgriffin]

a 60 win team in the east is not a 60 win team

:lol

[HelterSkelter]

a 60 win team in the east is not a 60 win team

:lol


Well, Hawks were 22-8 against the West

[Magic 32]

Well, Hawks were 22-8 against the West

Not after the all-star break.

They are basically a high end version of the Raptors collaps.

[HelterSkelter]

Not after the all-star break.

They are basically a high end version of the Raptors collaps.


Just saw it on basketball-reference. 7-4 vs the West after the All-star break. Not THAT bad...

[1~Gibson~1]

fixed

When Jeff Teague is your "star" (top 30 player?), you know that you're in trouble.The dropoff in talent isnt so great as is in the West. Jeff Teague + Al Horford + DeMarre + (Korver/Thabo) is a good team. They're missing a legit finisher and still managed 60 wins.


Taking his competition into context it's the fvcking Hawks. He couldn't do this in the West. For comparison Houston's comeback against the Clippers looks impressive but you realize its the Clippers. They promptly go on to get thoroughly dominated in the next round by the Warriors. In the west he'd average 50ppg/15astpg/12rpg ....fake defense (http://insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=377350)... im just saying.

[KNOW1EDGE]

It's been a rough year for LeBron haters.

Using the same old, played-out material.

Watching LeBron absolutely dismantle the Hawks single handedly. Praying that he will not win another championship, but they know he will, so they are scrambling to find some new hyperbole to minimize LBJs greatness.

Suicide Hotline bout to be blowing up!

[BigBoss]

It's been a rough year for LeBron haters.



2 weeks from now. Lebron haters will own this board. :lol

2 for 6.

[DMAVS41]

It's been a rough year for LeBron haters.

Using the same old, played-out material.

Watching LeBron absolutely dismantle the Hawks single handedly. Praying that he will not win another championship, but they know he will, so they are scrambling to find some new hyperbole to minimize LBJs greatness.

Suicide Hotline bout to be blowing up!


I'm far from a Lebron hater...and Lebron has been amazing in spots in these playoffs...but he and his team are benefiting greatly from not playing good teams.

Yes, they deserve credit for getting shit done, but the East is beyond bad right now. Those Hawks couldn't even build a lead with Lebron playing like complete shit in the first half last night in the biggest game...do or die game...of the year.

You know you kind of just don't have it at that point.

[Kingwillball]

I'm far from a Lebron hater...and Lebron has been amazing in spots in these playoffs...but he and his team are benefiting greatly from not playing good teams.

Yes, they deserve credit for getting shit done, but the East is beyond bad right now. Those Hawks couldn't even build a lead with Lebron playing like complete shit in the first half last night in the biggest game...do or die game...of the year.

You know you kind of just don't have it at that point.

He would do it to west teams too please does not matter..

[KNOW1EDGE]

2 weeks from now. Lebron haters will own this board. :lol

2 for 6.

I'm by no means a LBJ stan. I used to hate the guy but have grown to like him. Always respected his game.

But I find it pathetic that you are so obsessed with him to the point you make the quote in your avatar about him, and where your from as well.

The haters are absolutely pathetic.

I just hope for a good finals. Don't really care either way who wins. It will be a good story if GS wins, it will be a good story if in his first year back with the Cavs LeBron wins another.

[LeBird]

I'm far from a Lebron hater...and Lebron has been amazing in spots in these playoffs...but he and his team are benefiting greatly from not playing good teams.

Yes, they deserve credit for getting shit done, but the East is beyond bad right now. Those Hawks couldn't even build a lead with Lebron playing like complete shit in the first half last night in the biggest game...do or die game...of the year.

You know you kind of just don't have it at that point.

Give it up already. If he is beating the best team in the conference with hardly any help then you gotta stop repeating this garbage. The East is weaker than the West but it isn't that much weaker that beating a 60+ win team is suddenly explained away in such a bullshit fashion.

[tmacattack33]

Lebron's statline for the series: 33 ppg, 12 rpg, 10 apg, on 42% FG and 5 turnovers.

And in the only game that was close he had the game-winning shot.

Pretty damn good.

[DMAVS41]

Give it up already. If he is beating the best team in the conference with hardly any help then you gotta stop repeating this garbage. The East is weaker than the West but it isn't that much weaker that beating a 60+ win team is suddenly explained away in such a bullshit fashion.

For starters, he's getting quality help right now.

And just no...have you watched the games? Have you seen how bad these East teams are?

If Lebron can shoot sub 50% TS and beat the Warriors with this team...then I'll admit I was wrong.

But until I see them actually beat a quality team....just not gonna pretend like Lebron is playing his best basketball or something.

He's been great in spots, but overall is not playing his best. His shot is broken completely and good teams would make you pay when you go 0-10 to start a game...or Lebron is getting quality help. Either way you are wrong.

The Hawks aren't good right now. Haven't been good for months. Well...by good I mean a legit chance to beat an elite team.

[FLDFSU]

I'm far from a Lebron hater...and Lebron has been amazing in spots in these playoffs...but he and his team are benefiting greatly from not playing good teams.

Yes, they deserve credit for getting shit done, but the East is beyond bad right now. Those Hawks couldn't even build a lead with Lebron playing like complete shit in the first half last night in the biggest game...do or die game...of the year.

You know you kind of just don't have it at that point.

Can you explain to me why the Heat missed the playoffs "in the worst conference of all time" this season?

Surely, a "stacked" team in the East like the Heat should be able to win the conference finals against the historically "horrible" East.

Pray tell, why couldn't the "stacked" Heat at least make it to the 8th seed?

[longtime lurker]

Can you explain to me why the Heat missed the playoffs "in the worst conference of all time" this season?

Surely, a "stacked" team in the East like the Heat should be able to win the conference finals against the historically "horrible" East.

Pray tell, why couldn't the "stacked" Heat at least make it to the 8th seed?

I don't know maybe it has something to do with missing their superstar player for most of the season and a trading for Dragic to late :confusedshrug:

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Can you explain to me why the Heat missed the playoffs "in the worst conference of all time" this season?

Surely, a "stacked" team in the East like the Heat should be able to win the conference finals against the historically "horrible" East.

Pray tell, why couldn't the "stacked" Heat at least make it to the 8th seed?
Was Bosh active at all during the second half of the season?

:confusedshrug:

[FLDFSU]

I don't know maybe it has something to do with missing their superstar player for most of the season and a trading for Dragic to late :confusedshrug:

The superstar player (Bosh) was present until the All-Star game (I think until game 45). With the superstar player (Bosh), the Heat was never was higher than 5th or 6th team in the conference, and did not have a winning record "in the weakest conference of all time."

In addition, Wade (the other superstar) played more games this season than he did last season.

In addition, "the most stacked team of all time" still had Chalmers, Birdman, and UD for the entire season.

Surely, a "stacked" roster of Wade, Chalmers, Birdman, and UD alone is sufficient in the "weakest conference of all time" to at least get to the 8th seed.

Forget Bosh (who played more than 1/2 the season), and Whiteside, Dragic, and Deng...

Wade, Chalmers, Birdman, and UD was a huge part of the "most stacked team of all time...relative to competition," that competition being the "horrible" East, and therefore Wade, Chalmers, and Birdman, UD should be good enough to at least get the 8th seed in this "horrible conference."

Please keep in mind the Heat still had the same coaching staff and President Pat Riley.

So again, why did the Heat miss the playoffs in the "historically horrible" East this season?


EDIT: I forgot about Beasley, who was also part of the "most stacked team" in the East...

[JellyBean]

:oldlol:

Oh, and lets not forget Varajao has been one of the leagues best defensive bigs and hes not playing either.


:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:


Not a good time to be a hater, is it? :roll:

See this is why I can not stand LeBron fans, which causes me to dislike LeBron. These same fans that praise Varajao for being one of the "best defensive bigs", are the same fans that throw the so call best "defensive big" under the bus when the Cavs lose! :banghead:

[DonDadda59]

Little hypothetical- what if after sweeping this role player squad that inexplicably won 60 in the East... the Cavs get the '14 Spurs on Heat treatment from a 60 win team from the West.

What would that tell you? :confusedshrug:

[3peated]

real basketball fans don't hate lebron. i'm a lakers fan til i die, and i like kobe, but denying lebron's skill is ****ing stupid.

[DMAVS41]

Little hypothetical- what if after sweeping this role player squad that inexplicably won 60 in the East... the Cavs get the '14 Spurs on Heat treatment from a 60 win team from the West.

What would that tell you? :confusedshrug:

It would tell us what we already know. That the Warriors have been the best team in the league, very clearly, all year...and that the East sucks.

That isn't to say the Warriors can't lose, but nobody is gonna be shocked if the Cavs lose in 5 in the finals after they sweep the 60 win Hawks.

Why? Because everyone being remotely honest knows the East is a dumpster fire.

I can't believe people deny this. It's a joke.

[KembaWalker]

I'll give LeBron his props ones his nut riders suck it up and admit this isn't the one man show they desperately want it to be

To even flirt with the notion that LeBron is doing this one his own is a joke

Let's pull out some stats since the CAVS 2nd and 3rd option have been injured

Iman Shumpert
Reg Season- 7.2ppg 41FG% 33%3FG
Playoffs- 12.3ppg 40FG% 39%3FG

Delly
Reg Season- 4.8ppg 36%FG 40%3FG
Playoffs- 8.7ppg 39%FG 36%3FG

TT
Reg Season- 8.5ppg 54%FG 8rpg
Playoffs- 9.7ppg 55%FG 11.1rpg

JR Smith
Reg Season- 12.7ppg 42%FG 39%3FG
Playoffs- 15ppg 50%FG 47%3FG

Kyrie Irving (Since the injury came out to the media)
Reg Season- 21.7ppg 46%FG 41%3FG
Playoffs- 16.4ppg 42%FG 45%3FG

As you can see this whole idea that he is "carrying" his team is bs, to not give his teammates any credit is just retarded

Am I a fan of LeBron's? No I'm not
Is it an impressive playoff run? Yes
Should it go down as one of the historic playoff runs? Plain and simple, no

PS. GSW in 5.
PPS. MozGOD&TT>>Love&Varejao

[Heavincent]

Lebron has obviously been great, but can we stop acting like they're not getting good contributions from other players? Thompson, Smith, Shumpert, and Mozgov have been fantastic (and Irving played decent in game 1), and it's not like they're going against some juggernaut.

[longtime lurker]

The superstar player (Bosh) was present until the All-Star game (I think until game 45). With the superstar player (Bosh), the Heat was never was higher than 5th or 6th team in the conference, and did not have a winning record "in the weakest conference of all time."

In addition, Wade (the other superstar) played more games this season than he did last season.

In addition, "the most stacked team of all time" still had Chalmers, Birdman, and UD for the entire season.

Surely, a "stacked" roster of Wade, Chalmers, Birdman, and UD alone is sufficient in the "weakest conference of all time" to at least get to the 8th seed.

Forget Bosh (who played more than 1/2 the season), and Whiteside, Dragic, and Deng...

Wade, Chalmers, Birdman, and UD was a huge part of the "most stacked team of all time...relative to competition," that competition being the "horrible" East, and therefore Wade, Chalmers, and Birdman, UD should be good enough to at least get the 8th seed in this "horrible conference."

Please keep in mind the Heat still had the same coaching staff and President Pat Riley.

So again, why did the Heat miss the playoffs in the "historically horrible" East this season?


EDIT: I forgot about Beasley, who was also part of the "most stacked team" in the East...

LOL at you bringing up roles players like Chalmers, UD and Birdman like they're difference makers. And bring up Beasley? Fvcking Beasley talk about grasping at straws.

Bosh missed 38 games and Wade missed 20 games you tool. The Heat were literally 1 game out of the playoffs and 4 games out of the 6th seed. Your protect Lebron's honour at all costs is leading you to distort the facts. Missing your superstars has a huge impact on a team's success just look at what missing Paul George did to the Pacers who were in the Eastern conference finals last year.

The East is a steaming pile of garbage. The 7th seed in the West would have been 3rd seed in the East. The 9th and 10th teams in the West have been 6th seed in the East. There's no way that the Cavs missing both Kyrie and Love would be sweeping the top teams in the West. Get your head outta your ass

[aj1987]

The 7th seed in the West would have been 3rd seed in the East. The 9th and 10th teams in the West have been 6th seed in the East.
Not getting involved in your discussion, but you got some of you "facts" wrong.

The 7th seed would've been the 4th seed (Bulls were higher up in the division and they split the RS). The 9th seed would've been the 6th seed and the 10th would've been the 8th seed.

[Akrazotile]

Little hypothetical- what if after sweeping this role player squad that inexplicably won 60 in the East... the Cavs get the '14 Spurs on Heat treatment from a 60 win team from the West.

What would that tell you? :confusedshrug:


That his teammates are sorely lacking.

[chazzy]

Cruising through the playoffs while shooting 49 TS% and 5 TO/g #easternconference

[Straight_Ballin]

As you can see this whole idea that he is "carrying" his team is bs, to not give his teammates any credit is just retarded

It's the same fvcktards and all their alts that are saying this. I just point and laugh.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

The superstar player (Bosh) was present until the All-Star game (I think until game 45). With the superstar player (Bosh), the Heat was never was higher than 5th or 6th team in the conference, and did not have a winning record "in the weakest conference of all time."
So with Bosh they were a playoff team?

Now imagine if Wade hadn't sat out the 8 or 9 games he did pre-allstar break.

It's pretty safe to say, Miami at full health would have been a realistic top seed, as there were only a few games that separated them from those teams.

[jzek]

Could Kobe or Jordan do this? :confusedshrug:

[DMAVS41]

Cruising through the playoffs while shooting 49 TS% and 5 TO/g #easternconference

Nothing more needs to be said really.

Is there even any other legit like star players in the East outside of Kyrie?

[sd3035]

The Heat had more than 30 different starting lineups this season

They were decimated by injuries and lost the rest of their good players from the previous year, except Wade

Next year Miami will make some noise in the LEast

[FLDFSU]

LOL at you bringing up roles players like Chalmers, UD and Birdman like they're difference makers. And bring up Beasley? Fvcking Beasley talk about grasping at straws.

Bosh missed 38 games and Wade missed 20 games you tool. The Heat were literally 1 game out of the playoffs and 4 games out of the 6th seed. Your protect Lebron's honour at all costs is leading you to distort the facts. Missing your superstars has a huge impact on a team's success just look at what missing Paul George did to the Pacers who were in the Eastern conference finals last year.

The East is a steaming pile of garbage. The 7th seed in the West would have been 3rd seed in the East. The 9th and 10th teams in the West have been 6th seed in the East. There's no way that the Cavs missing both Kyrie and Love would be sweeping the top teams in the West. Get your head outta your ass

Those role players were what ISH used to justify the Heat being "the most stacked team of all time--relative to competition." Chamlers, UD, and Anderson (and Beasley) were part of the "stackness" of the 2014 Heat, per ISH.

The Heat were 17-25 in games that superstar Bosh played in this season. Wade missed almost double that amount of games in 2014...yet the Heat in 2014 were still "the most stacked team of all time--relative to competition" with Wade out 35+ games in 2014.

And I am not talking about winning the "pathetic" East, you tool. I am talking about getting to the playoffs. Being better than 1/2 of this "pathetic" conference.

So what in the world is the "most stacked team of all time-relative to competition" doing being anywhere near in danger of missing the playoffs with superstar Wade playing 62 games and superstar Bosh playing 44 in the "weakest conference of all time"?

And the Pacers were never called "stacked." Therefore, George being out does little for argument. The Heat were called "historically" stacked and therefore one would expect them to dive off the deep end because one player is no longer on the team.

[chazzy]

Nothing more needs to be said really.

Is there even any other legit like star players in the East outside of Kyrie?
The only non-Cavalier All NBA player was Pau Gasol..

[FLDFSU]

And BTW, you basically just admitted that it takes...not one, but two superstars, playing the entire season for a team to make it to the Eastern conference playoffs...

Superstar Bosh playing 44 games and superstar Wade playing 62 games is not enough "in the weakest conference of all time" to be in the top 1/2 of the conference apparently.

[DMAVS41]

The only non-Cavalier All NBA player was Pau Gasol..

Yep...

Ugh...pretty sad that the best series and basketball we will see, by far, these playoffs will be a first round series between the Spurs and Clippers.

I just checked the MVP voting...and of the 12 players getting votes...only 1 (Lebron) played in the East.

And Kyrie is easily the 2nd best player in the East when he's right imo.

[bdreason]

He has taken a worse team than this to the NBA Finals. Top 10 player all-time, dominating the scrubby Eastern Conference.

[DMAVS41]

And BTW, you basically just admitted that it takes...not one, but two superstars, playing the entire season for a team to make it to the Eastern conference playoffs...

Superstar Bosh playing 44 games and superstar Wade playing 62 games is not enough "in the weakest conference of all time" to be in the top 1/2 of the conference apparently.

The Heat not making the playoffs in a transitional and heavy injury year does not somehow make the shitty Raptors, Bucks, Bulls, and Wizards any better.

You understand this...right?

You make it sound like the Heat had some great team this year and didn't deal with injuries and a new team with trades...etc....and they failed to make the playoffs. If that had been the case, then your argument might have merit.

But if you can't admit that these Eastern teams are nowhere near as good as the Western teams overall...you just aren't thinking clearly.

[DonDadda59]

And BTW, you basically just admitted that it takes...not one, but two superstars, playing the entire season for a team to make it to the Eastern conference playoffs...

Superstar Bosh playing 44 games and superstar Wade playing 62 games is not enough "in the weakest conference of all time" to be in the top 1/2 of the conference apparently.

Come on man, a healthy Wade led the Heat on several deep playoff runs without Bron. The man won a damn championship and finals MVP for f*ck sake. Why is it so ridiculous to think he could lead the Heat to a playoff berth if he was consistently healthy? :confusedshrug:

[supermechasonic]

:applause: :applause: :applause:

Good for Bron.

[Doranku]

While scoring more inefficiently than Kobe EVER has in the playoffs. :oldlol: Yeah, Kobe fans are furious.

Bron f*ckboys just gonna look like hypocrites if Bron wins a ring this year playing like the way he is. :lol :lol

[Indian guy]

Why is it so ridiculous to think he could lead the Heat to a playoff berth if he was consistently healthy? :confusedshrug:

Why would anyone at this point actually expect Wade to be consistently healthy though? He missed 58 games from 2012-2014. Knee issues don't magically go away in your 30's. It was pretty much a given coming into this season that he'd once again miss a significant amount of time. You can't really play the "if Wade was healthy...." card. He wasn't healthy the last 3 seasons either, didn't prevent Miami from posting a top 2 conference record each of those 3 years. No matter how you look at it, Miami failing to post a winning % with Bosh/Wade in the lineup this season was a huge boon to LeBron's legacy. Because that was the exact same roster that went to the Finals just last season + Deng, Whiteside and Dragic for a significant amount of games. And it doesn't exactly help the case for East being this incredibly weak conference either. On paper, at least, Miami had the 3rd best roster in the EC. But even had Bosh played his normal amount of games, they would've still been no better than 6th seed at best.

[Bandito]

Beating a 60 win team that plays in the LEast is not that amazing. Specially a team that obviously has no heart.

But to be honest they shouldn't be here so I give props to the Cavs for going this far and probably to the finals. All of them are playing like a team :applause:

[FLDFSU]

The Heat not making the playoffs in a transitional and heavy injury year does not somehow make the shitty Raptors, Bucks, Bulls, and Wizards any better.

You understand this...right?

You make it sound like the Heat had some great team this year and didn't deal with injuries and a new team with trades...etc....and they failed to make the playoffs. If that had been the case, then your argument might have merit.

But if you can't admit that these Eastern teams are nowhere near as good as the Western teams overall...you just aren't thinking clearly.

When you were running around here last year screaming about how "stacked" the Heat were, Wade was missing about double the amount of games that he missed this year.

This year, like most years, you have been consistent about how bad the East is. You have also been fairly consistent about how "stacked" the Heat are especially when one considers the conference that the Heat plays in, according to you...

Suddenly, Wade playing 62 games in the "weakest conference of all time" is not enough to be better than 1/2? And even with Bosh and Wade the Heat were 23-30

If you truly believed 1/10 the stuff that you posted this year or last year, a half season Bosh, 62 game Wade, along with Chalmers, Norris Cole, UD, and Anderson alone should be sufficient to make it to the 8th seed in the playoffs in the East.

Instead, Bosh, Wade, UD, Cole, Chalmers, Anderson, Beasley was 7 games under .500 when Bosh was admitted to the hospital.


And notice, I am not even bring in Whiteside and Deng, or Dragic who came on board the same time Bosh was declared out for the season.

[Doranku]

The Heat replaced the best player in the world with Luol Deng, Wade took one step closer to retirement, and Chris Bosh almost died and ya'll are surprised the Heat sucked last year. :lol

[FLDFSU]

The Heat replaced the best player in the world with Luol Deng, Wade took one step closer to retirement, and Chris Bosh almost died and ya'll are surprised the Heat sucked last year. :lol

1. The Heat were playing in the "weakest conference of all time"

2. The core of the Heat team was "the most stacked team of all time"--relative to said "weak" conference

3. Luol Deng is a legit NBA starter, and two years removed from being an all-star. If Deng hit the market today, 1/2 the league would offer him a contract by the sunset of the first day, and he would be one of the more sought after Free Agents (like he was last year)

4. Wade played more games this year, than he did last year

[DMAVS41]

When you were running around here last year screaming about how "stacked" the Heat were, Wade was missing about double the amount of games that he missed this year.

This year, like most years, you have been consistent about how bad the East is. You have also been fairly consistent about how "stacked" the Heat are especially when one considers the conference that the Heat plays in, according to you...

Suddenly, Wade playing 62 games in the "weakest conference of all time" is not enough to be better than 1/2? And even with Bosh and Wade the Heat were 23-30

If you truly believed 1/10 the stuff that you posted this year or last year, a half season Bosh, 62 game Wade, along with Chalmers, Norris Cole, UD, and Anderson alone should be sufficient to make it to the 8th seed in the playoffs in the East.

Instead, Bosh, Wade, UD, Cole, Chalmers, Anderson, Beasley was 7 games under .500 when Bosh was admitted to the hospital.


And notice, I am not even bring in Whiteside and Deng, or Dragic who came on board the same time Bosh was declared out for the season.

And go back and read my posts.

I included Lebron in that. I remember repeatedly telling you that they were stacked in large part due to Lebron.

We've been over that so many times...

But what I seriously wonder...is if you think the East is actually as good as the West. Like...do you think the Bulls were better than the Spurs, for example, because they made the 2nd round.

I need to know these things because it honestly seems like you don't think there is a difference.

That you think a conference with literally no other elite players is going to pose a problem for Lebron playing with good but not great help.

You seem to think I and others are trying to argue Lebron isn't good or something. Which is beyond a straw man...

We are simply pointing out that the margin of error for Lebron in the East over the last 5 years now has been absurdly high because of how shitty the conference was...and at times, the caliber of his team.

Do we really have to argue this? He got waxed in 11, won in 12, one shot away from losing in 13, and waxed in 14. The West is harder...considerably so. Most of the best players and clearly the best teams reside there.

And I'll remain open, but I'd bet he's about to get waxed again this year.

Does that mean he's not great? Does that mean he's not one of the best players ever? Nope.

It just means the conference he's played in...has been a complete joke for quite some time now.

Why do you dispute that?

[nzahir]

1. The Heat were playing in the "weakest conference of all time"

2. The core of the Heat team was "the most stacked team of all time"--relative to said "weak" conference

3. Luol Deng is a legit NBA starter, and two years removed from being an all-star. If Deng hit the market today, 1/2 the league would offer him a contract by the sunset of the first day, and he would be one of the more sought after Free Agents (like he was last year)

4. Wade played more games this year, than he did last year
Whiteside also emerged as a top big man, they added dragic and napier as well, and even added mcroberts. And their record was negative w/o bosh as well.
So I dont want to hear ANY excuses for why mia couldnt make these playoffs w/o lebron. The reason they made the finals all those years is because lebron hid all of their flaws

[dubeta]

And go back and read my posts.

I included Lebron in that. I remember repeatedly telling you that they were stacked in large part due to Lebron.

We've been over that so many times...

But what I seriously wonder...is if you think the East is actually as good as the West. Like...do you think the Bulls were better than the Spurs, for example, because they made the 2nd round.

I need to know these things because it honestly seems like you don't think there is a difference.

That you think a conference with literally no other elite players is going to pose a problem for Lebron playing with good but not great help.

You seem to think I and others are trying to argue Lebron isn't good or something. Which is beyond a straw man...

We are simply pointing out that the margin of error for Lebron in the East over the last 5 years now has been absurdly high because of how shitty the conference was...and at times, the caliber of his team.

Do we really have to argue this? He got waxed in 11, won in 12, one shot away from losing in 13, and waxed in 14. The West is harder...considerably so. Most of the best players and clearly the best teams reside there.

Why do you dispute that?


I know why DMAVS is fuming


This series brings him memories of the 8th seed Warriors beating the 67 win Mavs :lol

He's mad

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

1. The Heat were playing in the "weakest conference of all time"

2. The core of the Heat team was "the most stacked team of all time"--relative to said "weak" conference

So...

- No LeBron
- Wade out for nearly a quarter of the season
- Bosh out for half the year

And you're surprised they didn't make the playoffs?

[PWB15]

:oldlol:

Oh, and lets not forget Varajao has been one of the leagues best defensive bigs and hes not playing either.


:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:


Not a good time to be a hater, is it? :roll:


That just means the hawks coach is a JOKE and they have no stars

[chosen_one6]

Sign of 55 iso's

Shouldn't you be used to watching isolation plays? That's practically all Kobe ever did.

[SyRyanYang]

A healthy Cavs squad will maybe put up a good fight against Warriors, Grizzlies, Spurs, Clippers and Rockets and healthy Blazers.

[oh the horror]

DMAVS coming with real rational points and the responses are literally derailing straw man arguments because there's no disputing the shit he's kicking

[TheMan]

When will these idiot Brontards learn? Don't talk shit until Bron raises the Larry O'Brien...gonna be fun sonning these POS with 2/6 :applause:

[Bandito]

So...

- No LeBron
- Wade out for nearly a quarter of the season
- Bosh out for half the year

And you're surprised they didn't make the playoffs?
No excuses. :rolleyes:

[warriorfan]

bran stans looking desperate :lol


we beat a shitty hawk team that has their 3 best players not playing or injured!


:party:

[DMAVS41]

And you know what will happen if the Cavs lose in the finals?

Every Bron fan going nuts right now will be talking about how much more stacked the Warriors are and how the Cavs are huge underdogs.

And they'll be right...

So why only the honesty then?

Why do we have to describe the Hawks as a 60 win team when we all know they aren't as good as many teams that won less games?

Lebron could be the best basketball player ever and it wouldn't change the simple fact that this Eastern conference of the last 5 years or so has been an utter disgrace. And when you don't have to play other elite players or teams...it makes it much easier to make the finals.

Does that mean Lebron is a lesser player? Nope...just means we have to speak honestly about making the finals 5 straight years when each year the competition has been borderline putrid.

Again...why can't Lebron fans admit this.

And if it's not so much easier in the East...why has Lebron struggled against the West in the playoffs for his career? 07 swept, 11 dominated, 14 largest margin of defeat in finals history.

Dude is literally the most clutch shot in NBA history (by another player mind you) away from being 1-4 in the finals against the West.

So if it's not harder? Why is his record so much worse against the West? Why do we have to play this ****ing game?

The truth is the Hawks haven't been good for months and wouldn't have made it out of round 1 in the West.

In fact, no team the Cavs have faced in the playoffs would have made it out of round 1 in the West.

[Vancouver-Grizz]

I am not a fan of LeBron or a hater as you guys call it but I admit what he is doing with this team is phenomenal. Mozgov, Thompson, Smith, and Shump were boarder line bench team and LeBron is basically squeezing everything outta these guys.

I think GS is going to beat them especially if Irving is not healthy/playing but I wouldn't mind seeing Bron win one with so much on his back. Kind of a underdog story. It also might convince him that he doesn't always need a stacked team to win or he has to have an efficient stat line to get a pass.

[Vancouver-Grizz]

In fact, no team the Cavs have faced in the playoffs would have made it out of round 1 in the West.


This is true!

[FLDFSU]

Whiteside also emerged as a top big man, they added dragic and napier as well, and even added mcroberts. And their record was negative w/o bosh as well.
So I dont want to hear ANY excuses for why mia couldnt make these playoffs w/o lebron. The reason they made the finals all those years is because lebron hid all of their flaws

Exactly. But with the way some ISH posters post you would swear that Wade playing 62 games alone should be sufficient to make the playoffs in the horrible East.

They have this weird parallel (dichotomy) whereby when it comes to the 2015 Cavs: They are in the worst conference of all time...who cares about what they do...

But when it comes to the 2015 Heat that plays in the same conference: How do you expect a team that is missing one of its superstars for 1/2 the season to make the playoffs in the East? You need two superstars for the entire season in order to make the playoffs in the East.

These posters either need to take logic 1101, or are full of complete BS.

[ArbitraryWater]

DMAVS on point, not sure if he talked about the Heat missing the playoffs, but that obviously showed LeBron's unseen value in this last decade since MJ, Shaq.

[Indian guy]

So...

- No LeBron
- Wade out for nearly a quarter of the season
- Bosh out for half the year

And you're surprised they didn't make the playoffs?

It's disingenuous to pretend Wade missing games was some kind of surprise though. Everybody had Miami winning in the mid-40's even after penciling Wade to miss his usual 15-20 games. And this was before Deng, Whiteside and Dragic were a reality. Obviously, Bosh missing nearly half the season was the real surprise(although they were sub-.500 with both him and Wade in the lineup together too), but you'd think all the other additions they made would've offset it. And it should have. There was still too much talent on that team to not make the playoffs.

[FLDFSU]

So...

- No LeBron
- Wade out for nearly a quarter of the season
- Bosh out for half the year

And you're surprised they didn't make the playoffs?

1. The 2015 Miami Heat had a core players that ISH called the "most stacked team of all time--relative to competition" in 2014.

They include Wade, Bosh, Cole, Chalmers, UD, Anderson, and Beasley.

2. ISH also called the 2014 and 2015 Eastern Conference the "weakest conference of all time."


Therefore, if you have a core that is "the most stacked team of all time" playing in the "weakest conference of all time" there is NO EXCUSE for missing the playoffs given that all you need to do is be in the top half of said "weakest" conference.

If you really believed that 2014 Heat was "stacked" and the 2015 Eastern Conference was the "weakest" conference...how do you explain how the core of the 2014 Heat missed the playoffs in the 2015 Eastern conference?

That "most stacked" core had a record of 22-30 in the "weakest conference of all time"

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

It's disingenuous to pretend Wade missing games was some kind of surprise though. Everybody had Miami winning in the mid-40's even after penciling Wade to miss his usual 15-20 games. And this was before Deng, Whiteside and Dragic were a reality. Obviously, Bosh missing nearly half the season was the real surprise(although they were sub-.500 with both him and Wade in the lineup together too), but you'd think all the other additions they made would've offset it. And it should have. There was still too much talent on that team to not make the playoffs.
Nobody is debating that though. When we talk about the "stacked" Heat core, you think of the big 3. So not having LeBron, Wade missing a ~quarter of the season, and Bosh going MIA for half the year needs to be brought to attention. For an accurate representation everything needs to be accounted for.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

1. The 2015 Miami Heat had a core players that ISH called the "most stacked team of all time--relative to competition" in 2014.

They include Wade, Bosh, Cole, Chalmers, UD, Anderson, and Beasley.

That's not a core. Their big 3 was their core; who you're listing are mere role players on a top heavy team.

[Indian guy]

That's not a core. Their big 3 was their core; who you're listing are mere role players on a top heavy team.

I have never heard the term, "stacked core". And frankly, nobody ever called Miami that either. They were simply referred to as "stacked" - which has always meant a team with a lot of talent. A "stacked" team without their best player should still be pretty damn talented. Otherwise, they should have never been called stacked to begin with.

Haters can't have it both ways. Undermining LeBron's success by calling his team "historically stacked", only to quickly turnaround and say "but LeBron is what made them stacked!!!" when the argument no longer fits their agenda :rolleyes:

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

I have never heard the term, "stacked core". And frankly, nobody ever called Miami that either. They were simply referred to as "stacked" - which has always meant a team with a lot of talent. A "stacked" team without their best player should still be pretty damn talented. Otherwise, they should have never been called stacked to begin with.

Haters can't have it both ways. Undermining LeBron's success by calling his team "historically stacked", only to quickly turnaround and say "but LeBron is what made them stacked!!!" when the argument no longer fits their agenda :rolleyes:
Semantics aside, would you consider the guys I bolded the Heat's core? A yes or no will suffice.

It's always been the Heat are stacked because of their "BIG 3!!" With the exception of maybe Anderson, everyone on that team got shitted on. Especially Chalmers who I remember you were completely obsessed with hating on. :oldlol:

[TheMarkMadsen]

I have never heard the term, "stacked core". And frankly, nobody ever called Miami that either. They were simply referred to as "stacked" - which has always meant a team with a lot of talent. A "stacked" team without their best player should still be pretty damn talented. Otherwise, they should have never been called stacked to begin with.

Haters can't have it both ways. Undermining LeBron's success by calling his team "historically stacked", only to quickly turnaround and say "but LeBron is what made them stacked!!!" when the argument no longer fits their agenda :rolleyes:


Yeah dumbass..

The nick name "the big 3" aka the most important part of the team didnt include the 3 most important players on the team...

Lebron stans are so stupid

:roll: :roll:

[FLDFSU]

And go back and read my posts.

I included Lebron in that. I remember repeatedly telling you that they were stacked in large part due to Lebron.

We've been over that so many times...

But what I seriously wonder...is if you think the East is actually as good as the West. Like...do you think the Bulls were better than the Spurs, for example, because they made the 2nd round.

I need to know these things because it honestly seems like you don't think there is a difference.

That you think a conference with literally no other elite players is going to pose a problem for Lebron playing with good but not great help.

You seem to think I and others are trying to argue Lebron isn't good or something. Which is beyond a straw man...

We are simply pointing out that the margin of error for Lebron in the East over the last 5 years now has been absurdly high because of how shitty the conference was...and at times, the caliber of his team.

Do we really have to argue this? He got waxed in 11, won in 12, one shot away from losing in 13, and waxed in 14. The West is harder...considerably so. Most of the best players and clearly the best teams reside there.

And I'll remain open, but I'd bet he's about to get waxed again this year.

Does that mean he's not great? Does that mean he's not one of the best players ever? Nope.

It just means the conference he's played in...has been a complete joke for quite some time now.

Why do you dispute that?

If you take one person off of "the most stacked team of all time--relative to competition" and that "competition" being the Eastern Conference, to the point where that "stacked" team suddenly drops all the way from being "historically" stacked to the 7th best team in the very conference YOU SAID was "historically weak"...

That "stacked" team is not stacked.

The whole point of being stacked is that if you should lose one player or even two players that team would not materially change the outcome of said team.


This is like holding that the 1992 dream team was "historically stacked relative to their competition" and said competition was "historically weak" but if Jordan should go down, the Dream team should be happy to finish in the top 10 in the world rankings...

If you could so easily fall out of the top half of your "weak" conference by losing one player...you are not stacked.

[3ball]

Mozgov, Thompson, Smith, and Shump were boarder line bench team and LeBron is basically squeezing everything outta these guys.



Why do people say this?... It's not AT ALL true.

JR Smith was a leading 6th man candidate in 2013 because he averaged 18 PPG and 5 RPG off the bench... That's way better than he's doing now alongside Lebron, as a 12 PPG, one-dimensional floor-spreader.

Ditto on Shumpert - his stats were better in NY too... As for Mosgov, this is the first time he's ever started.. It's pure poppycock that Lebron is making these guys play better - pure media and stan fabrication.

And all these guys are very good players - I don't care what anyone says.. Kyrie > BJ Armstrong.. JR Smith < Pippen.. Mosgov = Cartwright.. So the Cavs match up with the 1991 Bulls pretty well...

The only other matchup is Tristan vs. Horace.. Horace was only 11/8 for his career - if he never played with MJ, he'd be just another 11/8, 100% bird-fed, D-and-Dunk big man, just like Tristan.. But since he's won rings, his 11/8 is glorified into something better than what it really was.. D-and-dunk... But even if you take Horace over Tristan, the Cavs bench is superior to the Bulls bench - Shumpert/Dellaladova > whoever the Bulls had - they were so bad, I can't even remember.
.

[FLDFSU]

I have never heard the term, "stacked core". And frankly, nobody ever called Miami that either. They were simply referred to as "stacked" - which has always meant a team with a lot of talent. A "stacked" team without their best player should still be pretty damn talented. Otherwise, they should have never been called stacked to begin with.

Haters can't have it both ways. Undermining LeBron's success by calling his team "historically stacked", only to quickly turnaround and say "but LeBron is what made them stacked!!!" when the argument no longer fits their agenda :rolleyes:

Beyond that, when they talk about the 2015 Eastern conference there is a complete contradiction.

On one hand, the East is so easy that any superstar can get to the Finals...but yet a team that has, according to them, 2 superstars in Wade and Bosh, should not be expected to even make the playoffs (finish in the top 1/2) when Bosh plays 44 games and Wade plays 62 against said weak competition...

[Indian guy]

Semantics aside, would you consider the guys I bolded the Heat's core? A yes or no will suffice.

A core to me is simply the group of players who get consistent playing time within a team's rotation. So yes, those players would be part of Miami's core.


It's always been the Heat are stacked because of their "BIG 3!!"

If a team's "historically stacked" because of their 3 best players only, then logic dictates that team should still be pretty darn good with 2 of those players too. Except Miami was a below .500 team with Wade and Bosh on the floor this season. And that's indefensible for a "stacked core" in the "worst conference ever".

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

A core to me is simply the group of players who get consistent playing time within a team's rotation. So yes, those players would be part of Miami's core.

Totally disagree but that's fine. Don't think there's much point in debating something we're complete opposite ends on.


If a team's "historically stacked" because of their 3 best players only, then logic dictates that team should still be pretty darn good with 2 of those players too. Except Miami was a below .500 team with Wade and Bosh on the floor this season. And that's indefensible for a "stacked core" in the "worst conference ever".

And despite the .500 record, they were STILL in the playoff hunt as a 5 or 6th seed with Wade and Bosh off to slow starts (just as Cleveland was).

The Big 3 made them stacked, not the big 2 for only half a season.

[FLDFSU]

Totally disagree but that's fine. Don't think there's much point in debating something we're complete opposite ends on.



And despite the .500 record, they were STILL in the playoff hunt as a 5 or 6th seed with Wade and Bosh off to slow starts (just as Cleveland was).

The Big 3 made them stacked, not the big 2 for only half a season.

The Heat were 23-30 and in 7th place when Bosh was admitted to the hospital and lost for the rest of the season.

The Heat were 17-25 with Bosh in the lineup this season.

And considering how "weak" the East is according to ISH, being in the hunt for 6th place indicates how not "stacked" the Heat were in 2014.

[buddha]

remember that time LeBron got swept in the finals? lol

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

The Heat were 23-30 and in 7th place when Bosh was admitted to the hospital and lost for the rest of the season.

The Heat were 17-25 with Bosh in the lineup this season.
Wade also missed ~15 games during the first half of the season, playing varied minutes while recovering from whatever it was that ailed him.

Context is always key, boss. :cheers:

[Doranku]

remember that time LeBron got swept in the finals? lol

We'll be reminded of what that's like in a couple weeks. :lol

[buddha]

We'll be reminded of what that's like in a couple weeks. :lol

nba/refs will give lebron a game or 2 unless he goes full 2011 mode.

[1~Gibson~1]

Last 6 words of the thread title:


without his 2nd and 3rd options
I cant think of many who could do such a thing, even in this 2015 Eastern Conference.

[LeBird]

For starters, he's getting quality help right now.

And just no...have you watched the games? Have you seen how bad these East teams are?

If Lebron can shoot sub 50% TS and beat the Warriors with this team...then I'll admit I was wrong.

But until I see them actually beat a quality team....just not gonna pretend like Lebron is playing his best basketball or something.

He's been great in spots, but overall is not playing his best. His shot is broken completely and good teams would make you pay when you go 0-10 to start a game...or Lebron is getting quality help. Either way you are wrong.

The Hawks aren't good right now. Haven't been good for months. Well...by good I mean a legit chance to beat an elite team.

No one would confuse these players in any other team as good help. They're good help because Lebron hides their deficiencies and is a great team player bringing out their strengths.

Shooting in and of itself is always better when you're more efficient however context matters. And the context is that for a player who is doing as much as Lebron on both sides of the floor, that fatigue will set in and make it harder for him to be accurate. He CAN be better, but that is a mitigating circumstance. The same reasoning goes for passing/turnovers.

And if him taking more shots, being on the ball more, simply means the others have to hustle harder to take care of the relative lack of efficiency, so be it.

Stop being a hater.

[Simple Jack]

It's a bit unfair to cite LeBron's finals record as somehow being indicative of how he plays vs the West. The finals are not representative of the Western Conference as a whole. It also fails to take into account that the finals, by definition, are supposed to be 2 of the best teams going head to head. LeBron could literally have had that same exact finals record (games wise) while dominating the other teams in the west. Seems a bit disingenuous.

[Ne 1]

It's a bit unfair to cite LeBron's finals record as somehow being indicative of how he plays vs the West. The finals are not representative of the Western Conference as a whole. It also fails to take into account that the finals, by definition, are supposed to be 2 of the best teams going head to head. LeBron could literally have had that same exact finals record (games wise) while dominating the other teams in the west. Seems a bit disingenuous.

The problem is that in the losses, LeBron choked worse than any player of his caliber ever in 2011....and Miami got raped badly in the Finals last year. Even in 2007, although nobody really expected the Cavs to win, his level of play was so far below what you would have expected from a player of James' caliber, and his team got swept, if he played even a little better it would have been closer. People often cite the fact that he's gone to 5, going to be 6 now Finals and 5 consecutive Finals when that's clearly inflated as hell.

We have to start honestly talking about that it's just nothing special. 5 straight Finals sounds crazy good until you realize the shit competition he's faced. When the best team you play in the East in 5 years is a young Bulls team with Rose literally shitting himself on the court in the conference finals...you've had a cakewalk. LeBron is one of the best ever no doubt, but that doesn't change the fact that he sure hasn't beat expectations winning 2 in 5 years.


One really has to wonder just how inflated making 5 straight finals in the East is. And we all know that just making 3 in the West over the same time is hardly a lock...

In fact, the more I think about it, the more I think he only makes 1 finals in the 5 years playing real competition en route to the Finals.

The Heat got murked by the Mavs and the Spurs...8-3 combined.

So, at most, the Heat are making 2 Finals playing in the West.

In 2012...are they beating the Spurs without Bosh for 6 games? I personally don't think so. I think it's a terrible matchup to begin with and without Bosh I don't see how their defense can hold up.

In 2013...they were injured and slumping and got a cakewalk to the Finals. could they have still made it? sure, but it was going to be a lot harder getting worn down playing a team like the Warriors...and, by the way, the Grizzlies are a better version of the Pacers they beat.

So making the Finals is out in 2011 and 2014.

And 2012 and 2013 are hardly locks given the state of the Heat.

If they were fully healthy in 2012...then they make it and win it for sure as they were the clear cut best team that year at full strength.

But 2013? Ugh....I don't think they would have had enough in the tank to get through and win the Finals. You just really have to consider 2 of the last 4 years the Heat got their shit pushed in...and if not for like 5 lucky breaks in game 6 in 2013....it would be 3 of 4 years.

[Out_In_Utah]

:oldlol:

Oh, and lets not forget Varajao has been one of the leagues best defensive bigs and hes not playing either.


:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:


Not a good time to be a hater, is it? :roll:

What year is it?

[aj1987]

The problem is that in the losses, LeBron choked worse than any player of his caliber ever in 2011....and Miami got raped badly in the Finals last year. Even in 2007, although nobody really expected the Cavs to win, his level of play was so far below what you would have expected from a player of James' caliber, and his team got swept, if he played even a little better it would have been closer. People often cite the fact that he's gone to 5, going to be 6 now Finals and 5 consecutive Finals when that's clearly inflated as hell.

We have to start honestly talking about that it's just nothing special. 5 straight Finals sounds crazy good until you realize the shit competition he's faced. When the best team you play in the East in 5 years is a young Bulls team with Rose literally shitting himself on the court in the conference finals...you've had a cakewalk. LeBron is one of the best ever no doubt, but that doesn't change the fact that he sure hasn't beat expectations winning 2 in 5 years.


One really has to wonder just how inflated making 5 straight finals in the East is. And we all know that just making 3 in the West over the same time is hardly a lock...

In fact, the more I think about it, the more I think he only makes 1 finals in the 5 years playing real competition en route to the Finals.

The Heat got murked by the Mavs and the Spurs...8-3 combined.

So, at most, the Heat are making 2 Finals playing in the West.

In 2012...are they beating the Spurs without Bosh for 6 games? I personally don't think so. I think it's a terrible matchup to begin with and without Bosh I don't see how their defense can hold up.

In 2013...they were injured and slumping and got a cakewalk to the Finals. could they have still made it? sure, but it was going to be a lot harder getting worn down playing a team like the Warriors...and, by the way, the Grizzlies are a better version of the Pacers they beat.

So making the Finals is out in 2011 and 2014.

And 2012 and 2013 are hardly locks given the state of the Heat.

If they were fully healthy in 2012...then they make it and win it for sure as they were the clear cut best team that year at full strength.

But 2013? Ugh....I don't think they would have had enough in the tank to get through and win the Finals. You just really have to consider 2 of the last 4 years the Heat got their shit pushed in...and if not for like 5 lucky breaks in game 6 in 2013....it would be 3 of 4 years.
:facepalm

You basically wrote an entire book, but you failed to realize that the Heat team would be significantly better if it was in the West. Better built. With a legit C and better role players than 74 year old Allen, 82 year old Battier, and a 59 year old Birdman. Lets also not forget that Joel freaking Anthony was the starting C in '11 and the back up C in '12.

[pegasus]

:facepalm

You basically wrote an entire book, but you failed to realize that the Heat team would be significantly better if it was in the West. Better built. With a legit C and better role players than 74 year old Allen, 82 year old Battier, and a 59 year old Birdman. Lets also not forget that Joel freaking Anthony was the starting C in '11 and the back up C in '12.
How do you expect to be taken seriously when you type shit like that? Do you not remember what they did to help win the chip in 2012 and 2013? Do you think someone younger would have played better and made more timely 3's than they did?

[aj1987]

How do you expect to be taken seriously when you type shit like that? Do you not remember what they did to help win the chip in 2012 and 2013? Do you think someone younger would have played better and made more timely 3's than they did?
They wouldn't need to make those as they would be putting away teams sooner. The Heat team was #5, #5, #2, and #1 oldest in the league. Those are FACTS. As much as I love Allen for hitting that 3, he was absolutely horrendous defensively. Birdman and Battier were HUGE as well, but they were old AF and it was showing. One of the reasons why Miami actually struggled even though they had LeBron, Wade, and Bosh. We did have a lot of depth, but only if the players were like a couple of years younger, you can say shit like stacked AF, etc..

Imagine LeBron on this Warriors/Rockets/Clippers/etc. teams. What I'm trying to say is that LeBron would've had even better teammates if he played in the West. That team wouldn't be built like the Heat teams.

Oh, and good job ignoring the rest of my post.

[ImKobe]

http://i.imgur.com/1QounVL.gif

[Simple Jack]

The problem is that in the losses, LeBron choked worse than any player of his caliber ever in 2011....and Miami got raped badly in the Finals last year. Even in 2007, although nobody really expected the Cavs to win, his level of play was so far below what you would have expected from a player of James' caliber, and his team got swept, if he played even a little better it would have been closer. People often cite the fact that he's gone to 5, going to be 6 now Finals and 5 consecutive Finals when that's clearly inflated as hell.

We have to start honestly talking about that it's just nothing special. 5 straight Finals sounds crazy good until you realize the shit competition he's faced. When the best team you play in the East in 5 years is a young Bulls team with Rose literally shitting himself on the court in the conference finals...you've had a cakewalk. LeBron is one of the best ever no doubt, but that doesn't change the fact that he sure hasn't beat expectations winning 2 in 5 years.


One really has to wonder just how inflated making 5 straight finals in the East is. And we all know that just making 3 in the West over the same time is hardly a lock...

In fact, the more I think about it, the more I think he only makes 1 finals in the 5 years playing real competition en route to the Finals.

The Heat got murked by the Mavs and the Spurs...8-3 combined.

So, at most, the Heat are making 2 Finals playing in the West.

In 2012...are they beating the Spurs without Bosh for 6 games? I personally don't think so. I think it's a terrible matchup to begin with and without Bosh I don't see how their defense can hold up.

In 2013...they were injured and slumping and got a cakewalk to the Finals. could they have still made it? sure, but it was going to be a lot harder getting worn down playing a team like the Warriors...and, by the way, the Grizzlies are a better version of the Pacers they beat.

So making the Finals is out in 2011 and 2014.

And 2012 and 2013 are hardly locks given the state of the Heat.

If they were fully healthy in 2012...then they make it and win it for sure as they were the clear cut best team that year at full strength.

But 2013? Ugh....I don't think they would have had enough in the tank to get through and win the Finals. You just really have to consider 2 of the last 4 years the Heat got their shit pushed in...and if not for like 5 lucky breaks in game 6 in 2013....it would be 3 of 4 years.

Again this is simply not true nor is it dispositive of his ability to perform agains the Western conference.

Miami getting "raped" in the finals last year had more to do with the team getting outclassed than it did LeBron's ability to perform against the West. He had a solid series by his own, and really anyone's standards. He didn't play particularly subpar.

And 2007? Really? He was 22 years old and in the finals with a team that had absolutely NO business being there. The Cavs lost Larry Hughes and were starting: Drew Gooden, Daniel Gibson, Sasha Pavlovic, and Ilgauskas. A 22 year old, playing with such a lack of talent simply cannot provide any conclusory information regarding his ability to play against the Western Conference. He was a few years removed from his prime as well.

5 straight finals IS special. The conference being weak, among other things, certainly contributed to his teams being able to compete in 5 straight finals, but it is by no means something to be ignored. If that were the case, you'd expect it to be done repeatedly by players at various points in NBA history. This isn't the worst conference ever, and there were times were players could have taken advantage of weak conferences as well; but none could to this degree (except those who actually did). It's not as impressive as it would be if he did it in this era, in the west for example, but it's not something you just ignore unless you hate LeBron and grasp at straws to find anything possible to try to dismiss his accomplishments.


You hypotheticals regarding whether he would make it in the West during specific years, are just that....hypotheticals. We have no idea and no conclusion can be drawn from that. You go with what you have, and what you have is a player making the finals 5 straight times. Context may make it more or less great, but regardless of the context, it is still great.

Consider what would happen if Spurs were swapped with Miami? The year they lost to the Spurs they could have actually been better than every other team in the league except the Spurs.

Which 5 lucky breaks are you referring to? The 3 by Ray Allen? That's how shit goes in the NBA. You need those 50/50's or even improbable events to occur in order to win a title. An injury here, or missed shot there, is the difference between winning a chip and not winning a chip and just about every team that's won the title has had these breaks fall in their favor. Why it's only brought up for LeBron I don't know.



As for LeBron choking "way harder" than any player of his caliber, Jordan was every bit as bad as LeBron in Game 5 against Detroit of the ECF in 1989. It was by all accounts, his own "quit" game. I understand that this is 1 game for Jordan vs many for LeBron in the 2011 finals, but let's not act like other superstars haven't had their own share of wtf moments in the playoffs.

[Simple Jack]

How do you expect to be taken seriously when you type shit like that? Do you not remember what they did to help win the chip in 2012 and 2013? Do you think someone younger would have played better and made more timely 3's than they did?

How do you expect to be taken seriously when nearly every one of your posts is some absurd exaggeration or critique of a player you have personal hate for. Among posters here, you should be one of the last to question someone's credibility.

On a side note, he was clearly discussing the talent level, not the contributions of the players. Of course they contributed and were a part of the Heat's title run, which is the case for any team winning a championship. But just about anyone would opt for more talent on their team if given the option, rather than requiring that role players step up and make plays they are normally incapable of making on a consistent basis.

[toneloc103]

He better have those numbers when he has the ball for the majority of the game :confusedshrug:, I'm sure those 23 misses gave him plenty of offensive rebounding opportunities, the 37 points came off 37 field goal attempts and he had 6 turnovers to 13 assists, which is hardly considered "great".

He's always been able to fill up the stat sheet but history shows us that he doesn't end up winning a title when he's dominating the ball to such an extent so if I was a Cavs fan, I wouldn't be that optimistic about it. I mean, a stat line like that from Lebron needed an OT victory at home versus a team that has had trouble scoring all post-season and who were missing their best player for more than half the game.

You people are gassing LeBron up as the "GOAT" and shyt but when he loses in the Finals again, I don't want to hear any excuses.




He's currently putting up a career high in usage rating while his efficiency is the lowest it has been since his first Playoff appearance.

It's like AI in 2001, he's willing his team to victories against inferior competition and gets a ton of hype for it, but when it's time to play a real team, his style of play will get exposed. And that's not even because he isn't a good enough of a player to "single-handedly" win a game or two against Golden State in the Finals, it's just that he doesn't give his teammates enough opportunities in the 2nd halves and his ball-dominant style of play takes way too much energy out of him that he will find himself gassed against a team that utilizes all of their players.

Yeah, you can say that Kobe was a chucker and he wasn't the most efficient player in the league, but he didn't dominate the ball like this. He took a lot of shots and hogged the ball in 4th quarters, but he let his teammates make plays as well, he didn't try to be a facilitator on every possession. That is why I am not buying into this hype and that's why I believe the Cavs will get exposed in the Finals. Not enough team work. He has an off night or starts off slow and Warriors go on big runs. It's inevitable.



so let me get this right... if he puts up numbers they are "empty stats" because he is a ball hog, and if he doesnt put up the numbers he is a choker? So there is no middle gorund with cats like you. Dammed if you do, dammed if you dont

[sportjames23]

What will these stans do when the Cavs get rocked by the Warriors in the Finals? Will they disappear for the summer like last year?

[DMAVS41]

Again this is simply not true nor is it dispositive of his ability to perform agains the Western conference.

Miami getting "raped" in the finals last year had more to do with the team getting outclassed than it did LeBron's ability to perform against the West. He had a solid series by his own, and really anyone's standards. He didn't play particularly subpar.

And 2007? Really? He was 22 years old and in the finals with a team that had absolutely NO business being there. The Cavs lost Larry Hughes and were starting: Drew Gooden, Daniel Gibson, Sasha Pavlovic, and Ilgauskas. A 22 year old, playing with such a lack of talent simply cannot provide any conclusory information regarding his ability to play against the Western Conference. He was a few years removed from his prime as well.

5 straight finals IS special. The conference being weak, among other things, certainly contributed to his teams being able to compete in 5 straight finals, but it is by no means something to be ignored. If that were the case, you'd expect it to be done repeatedly by players at various points in NBA history. This isn't the worst conference ever, and there were times were players could have taken advantage of weak conferences as well; but none could to this degree (except those who actually did). It's not as impressive as it would be if he did it in this era, in the west for example, but it's not something you just ignore unless you hate LeBron and grasp at straws to find anything possible to try to dismiss his accomplishments.


You hypotheticals regarding whether he would make it in the West during specific years, are just that....hypotheticals. We have no idea and no conclusion can be drawn from that. You go with what you have, and what you have is a player making the finals 5 straight times. Context may make it more or less great, but regardless of the context, it is still great.

Consider what would happen if Spurs were swapped with Miami? The year they lost to the Spurs they could have actually been better than every other team in the league except the Spurs.

Which 5 lucky breaks are you referring to? The 3 by Ray Allen? That's how shit goes in the NBA. You need those 50/50's or even improbable events to occur in order to win a title. An injury here, or missed shot there, is the difference between winning a chip and not winning a chip and just about every team that's won the title has had these breaks fall in their favor. Why it's only brought up for LeBron I don't know.



As for LeBron choking "way harder" than any player of his caliber, Jordan was every bit as bad as LeBron in Game 5 against Detroit of the ECF in 1989. It was by all accounts, his own "quit" game. I understand that this is 1 game for Jordan vs many for LeBron in the 2011 finals, but let's not act like other superstars haven't had their own share of wtf moments in the playoffs.


I totally agree last year it had more to do with his team than him.

But so what?

We aren't debating whether or not Lebron is the problem or something...we are debating how good the conferences are.

So your point is kind of irrelevant.

The point is that if Lebron had played in the West with his Heat teams and this Cavs team...I think he misses the finals in 11, 50/50 in 12 with the Bosh injury, 50/50 in 13, no way in 14, and no way in 15...with the caveat for this year that if they somehow beat the Warriors without Love/Kyrie I will gladly admit I'm dead wrong.

Doesn't mean Lebron isn't amazing and one of the best ever.

The only point here is that the Eastern conference has been a complete joke for like 5 years overall now and not actually acknowledging that (which sadly many fans here do) is absurd.

[Simple Jack]

My point....is that citing how he's played (or his team) in the finals as determinative of how he plays or would play (or his team) against the Western Conference is unfair.

[ISHGoat]

My point....is that citing how he's played in the finals as determinative of how he plays or would play against the Western Conference is unfair.

this

so if lebron loses vs gsw, all his finals appearances are somehow invalidated

and if he wins, somehow theyre all legit and he would suddenly beat every WC team

theres no middle ground with lebron haters

[Solefade]

What will these stans do when the Cavs get rocked by the Warriors in the Finals? Will they disappear for the summer like last year?


Cavs got nothing to lose tbh, they're clearly the underdogs in the series anyway :confusedshrug:

[DMAVS41]

My point....is that citing how he's played (or his team) in the finals as determinative of how he plays or would play (or his team) against the Western Conference is unfair.

It is an indication that the teams are much better in the West though and that he'd never have made 5 finals.

We already have all the evidence... The East sucks compared to the West.

Doesn't mean Lebron isn't great and it doesn't mean the Cavs can't win.... Although I don't think they will have a shot without a healthy Kyrie.

Hopefully he's right for the finals.

[Simple Jack]

It is an indication that the teams are much better in the West though and that he'd never have made 5 finals.

We already have all the evidence... The East sucks compared to the West.

Doesn't mean Lebron isn't great and it doesn't mean the Cavs can't win.... Although I don't think they will have a shot without a healthy Kyrie.

Hopefully he's right for the finals.

Sure it may be evidence, albeit a very small amount. But again, it simply cannot, alone, be the basis of a conclusion on the issue. For all we know, Miami could have destroyed every other team in the West beside the Spurs last year.

[DMAVS41]

Sure it may be evidence, albeit a very small amount. But again, it simply cannot, alone, be the basis of a conclusion on the issue. For all we know, Miami could have destroyed every other team in the West beside the Spurs last year.

Sure, but they still wouldn't have made the finals.

Also, I think there is a lot of evidence.

West has most of the best players in the league and most of the best teams....and the West always has a better record against the East.

So it's quite a bit of evidence that the West is much tougher.

Does that mean these Cavs or the Heat in the past couldn't win? Of course not. But losing Kyrie and Love or Bosh in 12.... In the West... Is a much bigger deal.

[r15mohd]

I totally agree last year it had more to do with his team than him.

But so what?

We aren't debating whether or not Lebron is the problem or something...we are debating how good the conferences are.

So your point is kind of irrelevant.

The point is that if Lebron had played in the West with his Heat teams and this Cavs team...I think he misses the finals in 11, 50/50 in 12 with the Bosh injury, 50/50 in 13, no way in 14, and no way in 15...with the caveat for this year that if they somehow beat the Warriors without Love/Kyrie I will gladly admit I'm dead wrong.

Doesn't mean Lebron isn't amazing and one of the best ever.

The only point here is that the Eastern conference has been a complete joke for like 5 years overall now and not actually acknowledging that (which sadly many fans here do) is absurd.

you're so damn hypocritical...you've gone on endlessly over the years about how "GREAT" the 2011 Heat were compared to any other years with Lebron, and now they miss the Finals because they are in the West? :facepalm

not to mention, they beat the best defensive teams in the NBA (Bulls and Celtics) in the east that year off of pure talent alone from 1a/1b Lebron and Wade.

you're so full of sh!t :rolleyes:

[DMAVS41]

you're so damn hypocritical...you've gone on endlessly over the years about how "GREAT" the 2011 Heat were compared to any other years with Lebron, and now they miss the Finals because they are in the West? :facepalm

not to mention, they beat the best defensive teams in the NBA (Bulls and Celtics) in the east that year off of pure talent alone from 1a/1b Lebron and Wade.

you're so full of sh!t :rolleyes:

they lost to the a ****ing West team in the finals!

what kind of evidence do you have that they'd beat the Mavericks just because it was a round or 2 earlier?

what the **** are you talking about?

[Euroleague]

Hawks in the western conference = 35 to 40 win team.

Hawks in the Euroleague = Top 16 stage team and no further than that, and that's ONLY if they got in a favorable regular season group that would allow them to advance.

Get real people.

And I'm not a LeBron hater, or Kobe stan, or whatever other nonsense some clown here would come up with. I've never been a LeBron hater. I've been totally objective about him always.

I have nothing at all against Lebron. I've actually always really liked Lebron, except for some of his choking.

I'm just saying, the Hawks being a 60 win team is totally irrelevant. They are an average team at best.

[Ne 1]

Hawks in the western conference = 35 to 40 win team.

Hawks in the Euroleague = Top 16 team, ONLY if they got in a favorable regular season group that would allow them to advance.

Get real people.

And I'm not a LeBron hater, or Kobe stan, or whatever other nonsense some clown here would come up with. I've never been a LeBron hater. I've been totally objective about him always.

I have nothing at all against Lebron at all. I've actually always liked Lebron, except for his choking.

I'm just saying, the Hawks being a 60 win team is totally irrelevant. They are an average team at best.
They're the definition of pretenders. They got hot for a stretch but they were never as good as their record indicated. The Wizards are actually the 2nd best team in the East IMO, still that's not saying
Much because the East is still clearly inferior but if John Wall didn't go down there's no doubt in my mind they would have beaten Atlanta.

[24-Inch_Chrome]

Hawks in Euroleague = GOAT team. Every player they have is better than Spanoulis and apparently he's the Euroleague GOAT.

[SilkkTheShocker]

Doing this all with ex-Knicks as his next best scorers. Haters are reaching big time :oldlol:

[Euroleague]

Also, the Bulls suck. They have a POS coach, an old washed up Gasol, a soft as butter Mirotic, the most overrated player probably ever in Rose, etc.

Seriously, there might not be a single team besides the Cavs that could even make the playoffs in the western conference.

Saying that is not LeBron hate either. If he is winning all the teams then kudos to him then and full respect from me 100%. But get some perspective though.

Some of the stans are too much. The eastern conference is a train wreck.

[Euroleague]

Hawks in Euroleague = GOAT team. Every player they have is better than Spanoulis and apparently he's the Euroleague GOAT.

This truly proves what a moron you are. When you make statements like that, you just prove you are a complete troll and nothing more.

The Hawks could not beat a single team in the Euroleague playoffs. They would get wrecked even against a team like Panathinaikos, which was this year the weakest of the 8 playoff teams.

lol at every Hawks player being better than Spanoulis..................

Horford would be nothing but a Kyle Hines at best in Euroleague - if even THAT good.

Wow, you are seriously as delusional as posters like Rooster. Borderline psychotic even.

Korver isn't even close to as good as Matt Lojeski, and Korver is considered one of the best players on the Hawks, while Lojeski is probably something like the 3rd or 4th best player on Spanoulis' team.

PUT DOWN THE CRACK PIPE

:biggums: :biggums: :biggums: :biggums: :biggums:

[24-Inch_Chrome]

Spanoulis: 2.7 PPG on .319/.172/.810

:yaohappy:

[SilkkTheShocker]

Everyone picked the Bulls to beat Cleveland. They only sucked once Cleveland beat them. Same with Atlanta. The walls are starting close in the haters :oldlol:

[aj1987]

Hawks in the western conference = 35 to 40 win team.

Hawks in the Euroleague = Top 16 stage team and no further than that, and that's ONLY if they got in a favorable regular season group that would allow them to advance.

Get real people.

And I'm not a LeBron hater, or Kobe stan, or whatever other nonsense some clown here would come up with. I've never been a LeBron hater. I've been totally objective about him always.

I have nothing at all against Lebron. I've actually always really liked Lebron, except for some of his choking.

I'm just saying, the Hawks being a 60 win team is totally irrelevant. They are an average team at best.
You do realize that the Hawks were 22-8 against the WC, right? Even after their mini "slump", they were 7-4 against the WC after the AS break (3 off those were in a row to the Warriors, Spurs, and Thunder).

The Hawks would've won every game by a margin of 40+ points in the joke league a.k.a the Euroleague.

[r15mohd]

they lost to the a ****ing West team in the finals!

what kind of evidence do you have that they'd beat the Mavericks just because it was a round or 2 earlier?

what the **** are you talking about?


Stop going around like the Mavs were unbeatable...Dirk had a great run, but it's not as if the Mavs dominated the Heat in winning this ring. It came down to Lebron REFUSING to shoot the ball and defer to Wade for his last hoorah at Finals MVP. plain and simple, yes the Mavs got the ring, but the Heat beat themselves, you didn't beat the Heat...context before you run with that

All you have to do is look at the east semi's and ecf to realize this. Lebron goes from str8 up dominating teams with Wade Against the best defensive teams that year of the Bulls and Celtics, with a hobbled Bosh at times too, to standing sideline and only passing? :rolleyes:

From 22-23 shots a game against Boston, and 19-20 against the Bulls to only 14-15 against the Mavs? Gtfoh with your hypocritical and bs posts :roll: :roll: :roll: let me guess, you agree whole-heartedly with Cuban on the defensive plan against Lebron to make him pass, or Carlisles mastermind of coaching? :facepalm Cuban and you fail to realize that every opponents approach is to make Lebron give the ball up early and not have him make the play, whether shoot or find the open guy. Do you really think the Mavs were better than Boston at this...and I wouldn't even mention the Bulls. Smh laughable.

The owness of the loss is on Lebron, that can't be refuted, but the Mavs didn't stop Lebron...Lebron stopped Lebron that finals and cost the team their first ring

[DonDadda59]

He did it to one 60 win team, he can do it to this 60 win team.

No excuses. :applause:

[DonDadda59]

He did it to one 60 win team, he can do it to this 60 win team.

No excuses. :applause:

:applause:

[bladefd]

:oldlol:
Oh, and lets not forget Varajao has been one of the leagues best defensive bigs and hes not playing either.
:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:
Not a good time to be a hater, is it? :roll:

Hello OP.

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[The Iron Fist]

"I'd rather not go to the playoffs than lose in the finals"
http://i1212.photobucket.com/albums/cc458/avunaos/Signatures/Playdota%20sigs/Beta_symbol.png