Bulls offseason ideas thread

[kshutts1]

This will be a crazy long post!!
Bulls had a great year that ultimately ended up being a let-down. They still played really well, and we made it to the playoffs and did some OK things.

But I'm not satisfied. I'll never be satisfied until we either tear it down (no!) or win a title.

I think our areas of need are, in order...
1) Offense. As a team, we're relatively inept offensively. We have the pieces, I think this is where the coach makes the largest change.

2) Lack of secondary creator. I've been saying for years now that the Bulls always seem to lack that second player (after Rose) that can create for the team when Rose either can't go or is not having a great game.

3) Athletic big/backup PG

4) Emphasis on shooting. We have the shooters, we just don't use the 3p line as much as we should

As for the coach, I don't follow coaching ranks often enough so I'll quickly gloss over this, but I believe Mike Malone is free. He was doing well this past season until Cousins got hurt. And long tangent... Cousins enjoyed playing for him. Could make the possibility of landing a monster FA that much more realistic in the future.

I'll tackle 2 and 3 together... sort of. Looking at our roster, I think our most valuable trade chip that is not a building block is Gasol. Gibson and Gasol make about the same. Gasol had a huge bounce-back year, but he's getting up there in age. The rest of the league is looking at him favorably, and he has a great contract. I think we can get a (relative) king's ransom for him.

On top of that, Mirotic needs to start. Gasol blocks him, and I don't see Pau being OK coming off the bench. His offensive versatility is key in a league that is continually going more towards the 3ball.

With any/all of the following trades, my aim is to get a backup big (as in someone that would be OK with a DNP or still be good for 15-20 mpg) as well as a backup PG or creator/scorer.
Gasol trades:

Very unlikely, but I'll list it because it's my dream trade:
Gasol and Hinrich, plus our 2015 and 2017 picks to the Knicks for the #4 pick and Langston Galloway. Jackson loves Gasol and used to love Hinrich. Gasol, Melo, THJ is a solid big 3, especially in the East. Knicks will still have plenty of cap space after this to go after someone like Rondo or something. But again, I don't see this as realistic, but I"m listing it because of the trade at the bottom....

1) Gasol and Hinrich to Miami
for
Birdman, Chalmers, and swapping first round picks.

Miami rolls out Dragic, Wade, Bosh, Whiteside and some SF with Hinrich and Gasol being more-than-capable backups. Monster team, if healthy, and let some other team deal with trying to make Gasol come off the bench.

2) Gasol to Dallas
for
Felton, Dallas first round pick. Dallas resigns Tyson and gives it one more go with Dirk, Parsons, Tyson and Gasol forming a formidable front-court, and Ellis doing his thing on the wing.

3) Gasol and two second round picks to OKC
for
Adams and Waiters

I don't think the Thunder would do this without the picks. Even with those, they may not. But I like Waiters as a spark-plug off the bench, and Adams has the tools to be a Magloire-esque center in the league.

4) Gasol to Portland
for
Afflalo IF Portland resigns Mathews.

This trade doesn't fit in with our needs, but if we could add a player like Afflalo? Yes please. Just slide Butler to the 3.

5) Gasol and Hinrich to SA
for
Splitter, Mills, SAs first round pick

So that's all those trades. Now we've accumulated an extra pick, some solid backups, and shed some depth to allow our youth to shine.

One major "blockbuster" I'd like to do at this point...
Our first round pick, the acquired first round pick, and a 2017 first round pick, plus Snell or McDermott for the #4 pick and Langston Galloway.

The Knicks have a lot of needs, and this gives them a nice young player plus 3 picks to help fill those holes. They'll also still have enough cap space for a max deal and a smaller deal.

Anyway!!!!

Final Bulls roster:
Rose//
Butler//
McDermott (love his shooting)//
Mirotic//Gibson
Noah//
with potential backups being...
Chalmers, Felton, Mills
Afflalo, Waiters, Snell
Dunleavy
Birdman, Splitter, Adams

[Rose]

Agreed on number 1 and I think 4 ties into that. Obviously we shouldn't be golden state level offensively, but there's pretty much no reason why the Bulls can't be top 5 offensively.

2: I actually think we have that second creator. Jimmy is pretty solid at both creating for others and for himself. He's not good at it yet, but he's decent enough at it for him to be able to do well at the end of games with it. Mirotic might one day become that guy too, there was a few flashes of it. But I really think Jimmy's got that next season for sure.

As for 3, I think that's somewhat of a decent idea. Wouldn't complain.

While I'd prefer Gentry, I think Malone could be a decent addition even though he doesn't have a lot of experience. Sucks that the coaching market is really slim this offseason. It's part of the reason why I hope Thibs stays.

Agreed on the frontcourt jam, because Mirotic really only plays well when there's just 3 bigs healthy. But I disagree on Pau's trade value. Yeah he had a career year, but he turns 35 this year. Teams aren't gonna give up a lot for that.

As for the trades:
I really don't like any of them. I think Afflalo might be over the hill too, he had a bad year in Denver and then continued it in Portland. Plus I actually think Jimmy is much better served as a 2 guard. San Antonio one is solid, but I doubt they'd do it. I mean maybe but.....

[kshutts1]

I don't know much about coaches, so I have no real plan there.

As for Pau, his game is the type that ages, and as a backup, he'll be fine at 35. He makes less than 8m a year, remember. But that's why I tried to keep the Pau trades to contending teams only.

One note I forgot to say.... Trade Thibs for a first round pick or two seconds. Don't lose him for nothing. So that will help us with future deals.

[Rose]

Agreed on Pau's game/contract value. I just don't think that he'll land us anything. Nobody is gonna give up a younger guy for him. MAYBE some team will get desperate for a veteran upgrade and trade a first or two for him but that's really optimistic.

[tamaraw08]

This will be a crazy long post!!
Bulls had a great year that ultimately ended up being a let-down. They still played really well, and we made it to the playoffs and did some OK things.

But I'm not satisfied. I'll never be satisfied until we either tear it down (no!) or win a title.

I think our areas of need are, in order...
1) Offense. As a team, we're relatively inept offensively. We have the pieces, I think this is where the coach makes the largest change.

2) Lack of secondary creator. I've been saying for years now that the Bulls always seem to lack that second player (after Rose) that can create for the team when Rose either can't go or is not having a great game.

3) Athletic big/backup PG

4) Emphasis on shooting. We have the shooters, we just don't use the 3p line as much as we should

As for the coach, I don't follow coaching ranks often enough so I'll quickly gloss over this, but I believe Mike Malone is free. He was doing well this past season until Cousins got hurt. And long tangent... Cousins enjoyed playing for him. Could make the possibility of landing a monster FA that much more realistic in the future.

I'll tackle 2 and 3 together... sort of. Looking at our roster, I think our most valuable trade chip that is not a building block is Gasol. Gibson and Gasol make about the same. Gasol had a huge bounce-back year, but he's getting up there in age. The rest of the league is looking at him favorably, and he has a great contract. I think we can get a (relative) king's ransom for him.

On top of that, Mirotic needs to start. Gasol blocks him, and I don't see Pau being OK coming off the bench. His offensive versatility is key in a league that is continually going more towards the 3ball.

With any/all of the following trades, my aim is to get a backup big (as in someone that would be OK with a DNP or still be good for 15-20 mpg) as well as a backup PG or creator/scorer.
Gasol trades:

Very unlikely, but I'll list it because it's my dream trade:
Gasol and Hinrich, plus our 2015 and 2017 picks to the Knicks for the #4 pick and Langston Galloway. Jackson loves Gasol and used to love Hinrich. Gasol, Melo, THJ is a solid big 3, especially in the East. Knicks will still have plenty of cap space after this to go after someone like Rondo or something. But again, I don't see this as realistic, but I"m listing it because of the trade at the bottom....

1) Gasol and Hinrich to Miami
for
Birdman, Chalmers, and swapping first round picks.

Miami rolls out Dragic, Wade, Bosh, Whiteside and some SF with Hinrich and Gasol being more-than-capable backups. Monster team, if healthy, and let some other team deal with trying to make Gasol come off the bench.

2) Gasol to Dallas
for
Felton, Dallas first round pick. Dallas resigns Tyson and gives it one more go with Dirk, Parsons, Tyson and Gasol forming a formidable front-court, and Ellis doing his thing on the wing.

3) Gasol and two second round picks to OKC
for
Adams and Waiters

I don't think the Thunder would do this without the picks. Even with those, they may not. But I like Waiters as a spark-plug off the bench, and Adams has the tools to be a Magloire-esque center in the league.

4) Gasol to Portland
for
Afflalo IF Portland resigns Mathews.

This trade doesn't fit in with our needs, but if we could add a player like Afflalo? Yes please. Just slide Butler to the 3.

5) Gasol and Hinrich to SA
for
Splitter, Mills, SAs first round pick

So that's all those trades. Now we've accumulated an extra pick, some solid backups, and shed some depth to allow our youth to shine.

One major "blockbuster" I'd like to do at this point...
Our first round pick, the acquired first round pick, and a 2017 first round pick, plus Snell or McDermott for the #4 pick and Langston Galloway.

The Knicks have a lot of needs, and this gives them a nice young player plus 3 picks to help fill those holes. They'll also still have enough cap space for a max deal and a smaller deal.

Anyway!!!!

Final Bulls roster:
Rose//
Butler//
McDermott (love his shooting)//
Mirotic//Gibson
Noah//
with potential backups being...
Chalmers, Felton, Mills
Afflalo, Waiters, Snell
Dunleavy
Birdman, Splitter, Adams
Sorry but I don't like any of the guys you are trying to acquire, I esp hate Felton who is one of the most inconsistent shooters in the league.
I hate Chalmers bec he seems very selfish. Watch out for "system players" who looked good under great coaches bec most of the time they get exposed. Guys like Splitter, Birdman etc.

[kshutts1]

Sorry but I don't like any of the guys you are trying to acquire, I esp hate Felton who is one of the most inconsistent shooters in the league.
I hate Chalmers bec he seems very selfish. Watch out for "system players" who looked good under great coaches bec most of the time they get exposed. Guys like Splitter, Birdman etc.
You don't have to like any of them, or any of my ideas. I am OK with that. Wouldn't be as fun if we all agreed.

I agree with that second point, but believe that we need an energetic backup big man, and a steady backup PG, more than we need Pau.

We are NOT getting fair value back, aside from the picks, but I believe that it would make our team, and those receiving Pau, better.

Go watch the last game against the Cavs this year, and tell me that watching Mills or Bird or Chalmers or Splitter out there busting their butts wouldn't make the rest of the team.. you know... care. And play with passion.

I'll admit, Felton doesn't bring passion. But he's a solid backup PG, and the Dallas pick would be nice, and I can legit see Dallas accepting that offer.

[kshutts1]

Can the Bulls "buy out" Kirk and Moore? Would give the team roughly 8m in cap room, not counting any "hold" that Butler has.

Would Bulls then be able to sign someone like Brandon Knight to a one (or two) year deal at 8m per, then match any Jimmy offer?

Rose/Knight
Butler/Snell
McDermott/Butler/Snell
Mirotic/Gasol/Taj
Noah/Gasol

Gives us another scorer/shot creator off the bench, and injury insurance. Just not sure if the cap maneuvering I laid out would work.

[eeeeeebro]

keep the same team... draft a replacement for snell IN CASE HE CANT GET BIGGER THIS OFF SEASON... face it snell with size would be a good thing for bulls but unfortunately he is too small atm to bang with the elite.

[Jasi]

Chicago is one "very good SF with a lot of points in his hands" away from contending.
You guys should make a move for Gallinari since apparently Denver is looking to trade him.

The only downside is that it would be one of the most injury prone starting 5 ever :oldlol:

[kshutts1]

Chicago is one "very good SF with a lot of points in his hands" away from contending.
You guys should make a move for Gallinari since apparently Denver is looking to trade him.

The only downside is that it would be one of the most injury prone starting 5 ever :oldlol:
I'm in the minority, but I've become a huge believer in Mirotic. I really think the key to this team is...
Trade Pau to open up more minutes for Mirotic. He'll be a feature player on offense.
McDermott starts hitting shots like a mini Korver.
Sign a PG that can create offense out of nothing for himself and his teammates. Doesn't have to be a starting caliber player, either.

Those 3 things should put us in the ECF, assuming we are healthy.

[nathanjizzle]

I'm in the minority, but I've become a huge believer in Mirotic. I really think the key to this team is...
Trade Pau to open up more minutes for Mirotic. He'll be a feature player on offense.
McDermott starts hitting shots like a mini Korver.
Sign a PG that can create offense out of nothing for himself and his teammates. Doesn't have to be a starting caliber player, either.

Those 3 things should put us in the ECF, assuming we are healthy.

no, just no.

[kshutts1]

no, just no.
Especially after drafting a player that appears to be ready to contribute... we have 4 bigs that all deserve 30 mins a night, plus a rookie that could definitely play 15. That's 135 minutes for a 96 min "position".

We also have a huge, gaping hole in the "shot creator" department. We'd be absolutely, 100% stupid to not float Pau (who's trade value should be pretty high right now relative to his age) and see what could happen.

Hell, we likely could have had THJ and some future assets from the Knicks for Pau. Or...
Lamb and Perry and a protected pick from Thunder, or
Bledsoe from Phoenix for Pau, Kirk, Snell and our pick this year.

Just like last year, we're ignoring the biggest problem on our team and, just like last year, I'll continue to rant about it.

[kshutts1]

Bulls staying the Bulls. I hate complacency. Just because MDJ was on our team does not mean he should have been resigned.

Don't get me wrong, the deal is great value in terms of dollars spent. But is MDJ still expected to start? Is he going to continue to hinder, at least in part, Snell's and McDermott's development? Or is he expected to be their mentor, and to be a bench warmer?

If it's the second scenario, I like it. As I said, the money is worth it. But, since this is the Bulls, I'm afraid that it's the first scenario. I want to see us attempt to groom rookies and second year players, while playing aging vets less.

[eeeeeebro]

___________________________ IF PAU DID NOT GET HURT WE WOULDA BEAT Cavs

[poido123]

Keep Noah don't trade him unless we are trading to get better, trade for equal or better value. His trade value is low right now. You don't trade away serviceable centres unless you are winning the trade.

Trade Gibson. We need to open minutes for mirotic and now we have portis. That makes 4 natural Pfs we have to find minutes for.

[nathanjizzle]

noah and taj for brook lopez

[tamaraw08]

Keep Noah don't trade him unless we are trading to get better, trade for equal or better value. His trade value is low right now. You don't trade away serviceable centres unless you are winning the trade.

Trade Gibson. We need to open minutes for mirotic and now we have portis. That makes 4 natural Pfs we have to find minutes for.

I like Taj but I understand that there is a log jam at PF and they still badly need a good PG who can space the floor and not commit a ton of mistakes.
I say trade Taj to NY for Jose Calderon.
Has a REALLY GOOD % from the 3pt line, career 41%. Career 6.7 assist to only 1.7 turnovers.
In perspective, if most fans love Tony Parker's PG skills, his career ave is ONLY 5.9 assist to a higher 2.5 turnovers/game.
Phil seems like on a rebuild mode.

[kshutts1]

I like Taj but I understand that there is a log jam at PF and they still badly need a good PG who can space the floor and not commit a ton of mistakes.
I say trade Taj to NY for Jose Calderon.
Has a REALLY GOOD % from the 3pt line, career 41%. Career 6.7 assist to only 1.7 turnovers.
In perspective, if most fans love Tony Parker's PG skills, his career ave is ONLY 5.9 assist to a higher 2.5 turnovers/game.
Phil seems like on a rebuild mode.
Not bad. I'd prefer someone that can create their own shot, though, like Jamal Crawford.

And I'd still rather trade Pau than Gibson. I just think we could fetch more.

[poido123]

Not bad. I'd prefer someone that can create their own shot, though, like Jamal Crawford.

And I'd still rather trade Pau than Gibson. I just think we could fetch more.


Weirdly enough, I agree with you.

Pau put up great stats for us, but is old now and hurt us on help/team defense.

Perfect candidate to be traded IMO. But I know the management will look to move Noah or Gibson before him.

[tamaraw08]

Weirdly enough, I agree with you.

Pau put up great stats for us, but is old now and hurt us on help/team defense.

Perfect candidate to be traded IMO. But I know the management will look to move Noah or Gibson before him.

I never heard Pops looking to trade Duncan because he is "old" (actually 4 years older). :(
It didn't help that he did looked slower esp the last 40 games bec Thibs overworked him, averaging 4 more mins/game inspite of having very good backups like Taj and Mirotic as compared to his last season with the Lakers.
Don't get me wrong, but I hated more bec he lurked waay too much from beyond 12 feet instead of getting higher % shots and force double teams etc.
But I agree, a Jamaal Crawford type would really help this team but it's going to cost more, Clips would ask atleast Snell and Gibson and another good player.
I like Mo Williams who has been a regular contributor at 13pts/game, actually more at 17pts with Charlotte. Has career 38% from 3pt line but his last 3 years at only 34%.
I also like Jameer Nelson.

[poido123]

I never heard Pops looking to trade Duncan because he is "old" (actually 4 years older). :(
It didn't help that he did looked slower esp the last 40 games bec Thibs overworked him, averaging 4 more mins/game inspite of having very good backups like Taj and Mirotic as compared to his last season with the Lakers.
Don't get me wrong, but I hated more bec he lurked waay too much from beyond 12 feet instead of getting higher % shots and force double teams etc.
But I agree, a Jamaal Crawford type would really help this team but it's going to cost more, Clips would ask atleast Snell and Gibson and another good player.
I like Mo Williams who has been a regular contributor at 13pts/game, actually more at 17pts with Charlotte. Has career 38% from 3pt line but his last 3 years at only 34%.
I also like Jameer Nelson.


Jameer nelson would be my choice. Just a really solid point guard who can score and pass well.

I'm not saying I want pau gone, I'm just saying he has the highest value to contract trade value right now. Should nearly always sell high. Plus we have 4 natural PFs already.

Pau gasols help/team defense was pretty bad all year. I mean, really bad.

[tamaraw08]

Jameer nelson would be my choice. Just a really solid point guard who can score and pass well.

I'm not saying I want pau gone, I'm just saying he has the highest value to contract trade value right now. Should nearly always sell high. Plus we have 4 natural PFs already.

Pau gasols help/team defense was pretty bad all year. I mean, really bad.

Pau basically replaced Carlos Boozer in the lineup, and the Bulls have a higher defensive rating than last years so....but wait.
Are you saying Boozer is a better help defender?:eek:
But wait.
2009, Pau played heavy minutes, Lakers was 4th best in defensive rating.
08 and 2010, 6th best.
Boozer goes to the Lakers, they were 29th in defense. :eek:
Could it be that the Bulls losing Ron Adams, Thibs most trusted assistant has something to do with it?:confusedshrug: Bulls were always in the top 3 with him, he leaves and the team falls 10th place. Adams joins the Warriors and they became NO. 1 in defense.

[poido123]

Pau basically replaced Carlos Boozer in the lineup, and the Bulls have a higher defensive rating than last years so....but wait.
Are you saying Boozer is a better help defender?:eek:
But wait.
2009, Pau played heavy minutes, Lakers was 4th best in defensive rating.
08 and 2010, 6th best.
Boozer goes to the Lakers, they were 29th in defense. :eek:
Could it be that the Bulls losing Ron Adams, Thibs most trusted assistant has something to do with it?:confusedshrug: Bulls were always in the top 3 with him, he leaves and the team falls 10th place. Adams joins the Warriors and they became NO. 1 in defense.



From watching the games I could see Gasol's defense and he almost always avoided coming over to block or contest the shot at the rim.

Perhaps perimeter defenders are working harder to cover him? Noah? I can't explain the stats, but just watching the games I could see how deflating his lack of defense was on numerous occasions.

[kshutts1]

I never heard Pops looking to trade Duncan because he is "old" (actually 4 years older). :(
It didn't help that he did looked slower esp the last 40 games bec Thibs overworked him, averaging 4 more mins/game inspite of having very good backups like Taj and Mirotic as compared to his last season with the Lakers.
Don't get me wrong, but I hated more bec he lurked waay too much from beyond 12 feet instead of getting higher % shots and force double teams etc.
But I agree, a Jamaal Crawford type would really help this team but it's going to cost more, Clips would ask atleast Snell and Gibson and another good player.
I like Mo Williams who has been a regular contributor at 13pts/game, actually more at 17pts with Charlotte. Has career 38% from 3pt line but his last 3 years at only 34%.
I also like Jameer Nelson.
Have you seen the Clippers big man rotation? Griffin. The end.

I bet you Clips would bite on a Pau for Crawford and a pick.

Pau//Udoh?
Griffin//Baby?
Stephenson//Jones//Hamilton?
Redick//Hudson//Rivers
Paul//Rivers

Not deep. They really need to sign some vets. But their strength, if they have one, is their guard rotation. Need Pau more than they need Crawford, and Pau is a flat-out better player. So why not get a pick, too?

[tamaraw08]

From watching the games I could see Gasol's defense and he almost always avoided coming over to block or contest the shot at the rim.

Perhaps perimeter defenders are working harder to cover him? Noah? I can't explain the stats, but just watching the games I could see how deflating his lack of defense was on numerous occasions.

Thibs being SO DEFENSIVELY oriented, would rather bench Mike Dunleavy in crucial situations when they struggled offensively vs the Wiz 2 years ago, preferred to play Pau heavy minutes:rolleyes:
But I am not going to say that he was very sharp, in reacting fast enough, but I strongly felt it was due to mental and physical fatigue.

[tamaraw08]

Have you seen the Clippers big man rotation? Griffin. The end.

I bet you Clips would bite on a Pau for Crawford and a pick.

Pau//Udoh?
Griffin//Baby?
Stephenson//Jones//Hamilton?
Redick//Hudson//Rivers
Paul//Rivers

Not deep. They really need to sign some vets. But their strength, if they have one, is their guard rotation. Need Pau more than they need Crawford, and Pau is a flat-out better player. So why not get a pick, too?

I like Crawford but I think you are overpricing him esp when he'll be done in 2 years.
If Noah fails to regain his form, his old driven self, then the Bulls will need Pau to step in.