Where will LeBron rank if he wins it all without Kyrie, Love, and Varejao? [Archive] - Message Board Basketball Forum

Fudge

05-26-2015, 12:20 AM

J Shuttlesworth

05-26-2015, 12:21 AM

He's about to sweep a 60 win team with 4 all stars without Kyrie/Love/Andy

He's already top 1 of all time.

dubeta

05-26-2015, 12:22 AM

IMO Durant would still be ahead all time

DFish24

05-26-2015, 12:22 AM

With Kyrie not playing? Top 5-7. With Kyrie playing, #10.

ballin33

05-26-2015, 12:22 AM

Kendrick Perkins, Shawn Marion? 😄

Fudge

05-26-2015, 12:24 AM

With Kyrie not playing? Top 5-7. With Kyrie playing, #10.
LeTop5Regardless.

DFish24

05-26-2015, 12:29 AM

LeTop5Regardless.

Top 10 player all-time with Cavs win. With a Cavs loss he enters Jerry West territory, so about #12-15.

9erempiree

05-26-2015, 12:31 AM

It pretty much tells you how loaded Cleveland is in the weak east. 3 important players out and they others contributing like they never skipped a beat.

Very few teams in history are like this.

Akrazotile

05-26-2015, 12:33 AM

He's currently top 3 so he'd basically be poised to overtake Kareem, Mikan, or both, depending on how you order them.

Ne 1

05-26-2015, 01:31 AM

He's about to sweep a 60 win team with 4 all stars without Kyrie/Love/Andy

He's already top 1 of all time.

http://s29.postimg.org/a8mi6c26v/Mountrushmore.jpg

http://brocouncil.com/images/stories/Articles/2013/04april/nba-debate-eastern-conference-weak.jpg

Marchesk

05-26-2015, 02:58 AM

Behind Dantley, but ahead of Bird tbh.

Kvnzhangyay

05-26-2015, 02:59 AM

Behind Dantley, but ahead of Bird tbh.
':biggums: you rank bird and lebron behind dantley??

Prometheus

05-26-2015, 03:17 AM

He'd prolly be above MJ...

If you really think about it, Jordan NEVER won a meaningful basketball game without Phil and Pippen. Phil Jackson, the greatest coach in history. Scottie Pippen, the perfect Robin - the perfect compliment.

Not to mention none of the Bulls' Finals opponents could hold a candle to these Warriors. Are you kidding me? The #1 offense AND #1 defense in the league?

On the other hand, LeBron is stepping on the court supported by David Blatt and the Little f*cking Rascals. A rookie coach whose stomping ground is Euroleague... a bunch of playoff virgins, and the Knicks' leftovers. He's part of a "big three" and he's been playing without the other two :eek:

Y'all wanna say the pressure is on Golden State? NAH FAM. The pressure is on LeBron James, just like it always has been. The pressure is on him, because if he pulls this off, he is the greatest player in the history of the game.

buddha

05-26-2015, 03:23 AM

his first legitimate championship. I'd probably put him in my top 15.

RoundMoundOfReb

05-26-2015, 03:25 AM

Top 1

RoundMoundOfReb

05-26-2015, 03:26 AM

He's about to sweep a 60 win team with 4 all stars without Kyrie/Love/Andy

He's already top 1 of all time.
Sensational post. Chalk this one up as another W for the LeBron Family :applause:

ILLsmak

05-26-2015, 07:54 AM

He's currently top 3 so he'd basically be poised to overtake Kareem, Mikan, or both, depending on how you order them.

haha. I like your top 3.

I think Bron can slide right up next to all da rushmore dudes (the six headed rushmore...) if he gets this done. I've seen a lot from Bron, and the only thing missing is really beating a better team. Everyone says all of that shit like so and so team was favored to win in the Finals, **** that. I never once thought Bron had the worse team in the Finals. The only time will be now. And it's not even just a little worse, it's like a 1st tier team vs a 2nd tier. Who knows, maybe Kyrie will be magically back, but I dunno... unless Kyrie does all of the heavy lifting, I still think there's a large enough gap that this is a resume win.

-Smak

Clifton

05-26-2015, 08:02 AM

I remember thinking this in 2007. Also in early 2000s with the Nets. Also in 2000 with the Sixers.

The fact is that he's not going to win. It's impressive that he made the Finals with this depleted squad, but he's going to go down to the Warriors in 5 because GS will go cold in game 3 or 4.

If he does win? Well then everything I know and understand about NBA basketball will need to get thrown out the window, and I'll have to start from the beginning again. Down will be up, up will be down, and 2+2 will be 5. They don't have the personnel to win 4 out of 7 against a strong western conference team.

(But yes - it would be a historic achievement, and the easy path to the Finals would be swiftly forgotten.)

SpaceJammeR

05-26-2015, 08:07 AM

he's right behind kobe...

r15mohd

05-26-2015, 08:12 AM

haha. I like your top 3.

I think Bron can slide right up next to all da rushmore dudes (the six headed rushmore...) if he gets this done. I've seen a lot from Bron, and the only thing missing is really beating a better team. Everyone says all of that shit like so and so team was favored to win in the Finals, **** that. I never once thought Bron had the worse team in the Finals. The only time will be now. And it's not even just a little worse, it's like a 1st tier team vs a 2nd tier. Who knows, maybe Kyrie will be magically back, but I dunno... unless Kyrie does all of the heavy lifting, I still think there's a large enough gap that this is a resume win.

-Smak

2007...the Spurs were definitely the better team going in. the other years, Lebron's team had the talent to win outright. so definitely agree with you there.

this year though, without Love and a hobbled KI, definitely don't see the Cavs as the better team. GSW are a machine to work with in all facets of the game, and so long as Curry remains healthy (and certainly look like he is in coming back from the fall), the GSW are undeniably the better team going in this year due to the Cavs injury-plagued squad.

pauk

05-26-2015, 08:16 AM

Well... considering the accolades he would have with that like:

4 x MVP
3 x FMVP
3 x Championships (as "the man" in every sense of the context)
10 x All-NBA 1st team
5 x All-Defensive 1st team
11 x All-star
ROTY

I would say top 5, a step above Larry Bird... Lebron will have more of everything, except being tied on the ring count...

ArbitraryWater

05-26-2015, 08:30 AM

haha. I like your top 3.

I think Bron can slide right up next to all da rushmore dudes (the six headed rushmore...) if he gets this done. I've seen a lot from Bron, and the only thing missing is really beating a better team. Everyone says all of that shit like so and so team was favored to win in the Finals, **** that. I never once thought Bron had the worse team in the Finals. The only time will be now. And it's not even just a little worse, it's like a 1st tier team vs a 2nd tier. Who knows, maybe Kyrie will be magically back, but I dunno... unless Kyrie does all of the heavy lifting, I still think there's a large enough gap that this is a resume win.

-Smak

you didnt think the 2007 and 2014 Spurs were clearly the better team? :lol

when did MJ beat a better team then? Kobe? Bron's beaten plenty teams without HCA or in series' he was underdogs in (2012 AND 2013 finals).

TheBigVeto

05-26-2015, 08:39 AM

Behind Dantley, but ahead of Bird tbh.

Adrian, is that you? Take your meds and go to sleep.

SpaceJammeR

05-26-2015, 08:47 AM

you didnt think the 2007 and 2014 Spurs were clearly the better team? :lol

when did MJ beat a better team then? Kobe? Bron's beaten plenty teams without HCA or in series' he was underdogs in (2012 AND 2013 finals).

yup spurs were better both those years. not sure why you think they were favored. specially in 2007 lol.

julizaver

05-26-2015, 08:53 AM

No Love
No Varejao
Kyrie is on and off, no telling if he'll even stay healthy for the Finals.

C: Mozgov
PF: Thompson/ James Jones :oldlol:
SF: LeBron/
SG: Shumpert/JR
PG: Injured Kyrie/Delly

No backup bigs whatsoever

If he somehow wins it all this year with this roster, dude easily slides into the top 5. Holy shit.

He is still 30 years old, I mean he could have some 1 or 2 more shots at the title, he had a good chance and to end between 5th and 10th spot All-time.

jzek

05-26-2015, 09:23 AM

Still behind Larry.

Why? Simple - Game 7 with 5 seconds left, would you rather let Larry or LeBron take the last shot?

r15mohd

05-26-2015, 09:39 AM

Still behind Larry.

Why? Simple - Game 7 with 5 seconds left, would you rather let Larry or LeBron take the last shot?

arbitrary scenario :rolleyes:

MJ is the best closer but are you going to choose MJ down 3 game 7 and 5sec left, or would you choose Kobe?

Quickening

05-26-2015, 10:08 AM

arbitrary scenario :rolleyes:

MJ is the best closer but are you going to choose MJ down 3 game 7 and 5sec left, or would you choose Kobe?

Well Kobe shoots about 10 percent for his career in that scenario, so probably not him

hiphopfan777

05-26-2015, 10:22 AM

LeBron's teammates are garbage. Irving and love had no playoffs without LeBron. Shumpert and smith were hot garbage in new York last place in conference until they rode LeBron's dick. Plus LeBron's garbage superstars irving and love are hurt and selfish b allhogs who never play any defense.

ImKobe

05-26-2015, 10:23 AM

Can't wait when the Finals is over and the trolling stops once Warriors hoist the championship trophy.

r15mohd

05-26-2015, 10:28 AM

Well Kobe shoots about 10 percent for his career in that scenario, so probably not him

true...though he still gives you the better chance over MJ in that scenario. just comparing greats, as above.

Blue&Orange

05-26-2015, 10:40 AM

Kingwillball

05-26-2015, 10:46 AM

afaik

Kyrie is averaging 19\3.5\3.5 on this playoffs, so i don't get the without part.
No one in his right mind would bench Tristan for Love now.
And there's no chance in hell varejao would start over Mozgod.

So yeah the most stacked team in the NBA lost some depth, poor Lebron he never has enough help.

The overrating of the statpadder continues.

He has played basically last 2 rounds with little contribution of the 2 other all stars so yeah lebron and a bunch of role players basically won last 2 series. If Cavs come back with everyone fully healthy I agree they would be most stacked team in league. Adding love , Andy V and healthy Irving puts Cavs at another level.

r15mohd

05-26-2015, 10:48 AM

afaik

Kyrie is averaging 19\4\4 on this playoffs, so i don't get the without part.
No one in his right mind would bench Tristan for Love now.
And there's no chance in hell varejao would start over Mozgod.

So yeah the most stacked team in the NBA lost some depth, poor Lebron he never has enough help.

The overrating of the statpadder continues.

afaik? seems you know very little...still butthurt over 2010? :rolleyes:

Irving's been injured the last few games, and has been a liability more than a benefit during the Bulls series. as for KLove, he gets the nod over TT due to the spacing...TT will still play, but will be back to the reg season ways with both TT and KLove finishing off games at times.

and Verjao has done exactly what Moz is doing now for the Cavs during his years with Lebron. who's to say he wouldn't do the same with Lebron back in town? :facepalm

pauk

05-26-2015, 11:06 AM

Still behind Larry.

Why? Simple - Game 7 with 5 seconds left, would you rather let Larry or LeBron take the last shot?

Well, if you want simplicity here and even more importantly facts from what we know... then you would obviously go with whoever was proven to be better in those situations right?

1st of all, Lebron is the much better (maybe the best ever) Game 7 performer and arguably best in NBA history, his productions & success in Game 7 is amazing as you can see here compared to Michael Jordan (doubt Bird was any better than that guy)... http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1659438-lbj-vs-kobe-vs-jordan-whos-the-all-time-king-of-game-7s

Now, clutchness...

Larry Bird -
15 career gamewinners in the regular season
3 career gamewinners in the playoffs

LeBron James -
20 career gamewinners in the regular season
8 career gamewinners in the playoffs (3 buzzer beaters), more than anybody in NBA history in the playoffs....

Lebron also averages more in "clutch stats" http://www.82games.com/

5 seconds is alot for Lebron to create a higher percentage shot, layup/dunk/and1....

Bird i would want to take the last shot only if it was not enough time like 1-2 seconds, so it had to be a jumpshot / catch-n-shoot.... afterall, he is a better shooter....

Blue&Orange

05-26-2015, 11:09 AM

afaik? seems you know very little...still butthurt over 2010? :rolleyes:

Irving's been injured the last few games, and has been a liability more than a benefit during the Bulls series. as for KLove, he gets the nod over TT due to the spacing...TT will still play, but will be back to the reg season ways with both TT and KLove finishing off games at times.

and Verjao has done exactly what Moz is doing now for the Cavs during his years with Lebron. who's to say he wouldn't do the same with Lebron back in town? :facepalm
Thanks for your opinion, but do you realize you haven't really contradicted anything i said? Or are you too dumb to not?

DukeDelonte13

05-26-2015, 11:19 AM

afaik? seems you know very little...still butthurt over 2010? :rolleyes:

Irving's been injured the last few games, and has been a liability more than a benefit during the Bulls series. as for KLove, he gets the nod over TT due to the spacing...TT will still play, but will be back to the reg season ways with both TT and KLove finishing off games at times.

and Verjao has done exactly what Moz is doing now for the Cavs during his years with Lebron. who's to say he wouldn't do the same with Lebron back in town? :facepalm

What? Andy and Moz are totally different in play style and how they mesh with Lebron.

Akrazotile

05-26-2015, 11:25 AM

Well Kobe shoots about 10 percent for his career in that scenario, so probably not him

This.

Youd literally be better off taking Tim Duncan or Blake Griffin.

Out_In_Utah

05-26-2015, 11:51 AM

He's about to sweep a 60 win team with 4 all stars without Kyrie/Love/Andy

He's already top 1 of all time.

If that is how we evaluate players, then Dirk is #1 all time because of 2011.

Prometheus

05-26-2015, 12:47 PM

Well, if you want simplicity here and even more importantly facts from what we know... then you would obviously go with whoever was proven to be better in those situations right?

1st of all, Lebron is the much better (maybe the best ever) Game 7 performer and arguably best in NBA history, his productions & success in Game 7 is amazing as you can see here compared to Michael Jordan (doubt Bird was any better than that guy)... http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1659438-lbj-vs-kobe-vs-jordan-whos-the-all-time-king-of-game-7s

Now, clutchness...

Larry Bird -
15 career gamewinners in the regular season
3 career gamewinners in the playoffs

LeBron James -
20 career gamewinners in the regular season
8 career gamewinners in the playoffs (3 buzzer beaters), more than anybody in NBA history in the playoffs....

Lebron also averages more in "clutch stats" http://www.82games.com/

5 seconds is alot for Lebron to create a higher percentage shot, layup/dunk/and1....

Bird i would want to take the last shot only if it was not enough time like 1-2 seconds, so it had to be a jumpshot / catch-n-shoot.... afterall, he is a better shooter....

Get em. :applause:

r15mohd

05-26-2015, 12:53 PM

Thanks for your opinion, but do you realize you haven't really contradicted anything i said? Or are you too dumb to not?

seems you are the dumb one here...let's take a stint of your post:

"Kyrie is averaging 19\4\4 on this playoffs, so i don't get the without part."

Cavs have been without Kyrie for a few games now, and was hardly that statline during the Bulls series outside of a couple games due to his injury. he was more a liability to defense (more than he usually is) and his offensive
was limited to the same injury

and this is certainly contradictory to you insinuating Kyrie's statline is noteworthy for much of the Bulls series (2-3 games?), and even the Hawks series so far where he's barely played...so yes, without KI ::rolleyes:

r15mohd

05-26-2015, 12:55 PM

This.

Youd literally be better off taking Tim Duncan or Blake Griffin.

:rolleyes: riiiggghhhhttttt

r15mohd

05-26-2015, 01:03 PM

What? Andy and Moz are totally different in play style and how they mesh with Lebron.

Andy pre-Heat Lebron? (nothing much to show with this years Varejao and LBJ)

vs

Moz post-Heat Lebron?

both provided/providing a lot of the same intangibles during each respective time alongside Lebron. Moz can attack more on his own, Andy relied on the play to be setup for him to score with PnR's and put backs. but it's not drastically different to where one is so much better than the other on what they provide to the team. you pick Moz when going big, you pick Andy when going small however still keep the inside presence from both with either direction.

guy

05-26-2015, 03:42 PM

These aren't really relevant. Kyrie is questionable today, meaning he should definitely be back for the finals. Its been questionable all year if the Cavs have been better off with or without Love due to chemistry issues and now Tristan Thompson. They essentially replaced Varejeao and upgraded with Mozgov, and having Varejeao is basically a luxury anyway since he's one of the most injury proned players in the league.

Forget the names behind the jersey. Lebron is shooting 42% and 16% from 3. Do people seriously think he's not getting good help for them to get this far with him shooting like that?

If people's memories are as foggy 15-30 years from now as they are today, no one will really pay much attention to the actual performances from the big names like Kyrie, Wade, and Bosh playing with Lebron in Cleveland (if they win) and Miami and they will only pay attention to the big name and his help will be overglorified just like the help of other all-time greats. Examples: No one remembers that Jordan had no one dependable offensively in the playoffs during the 2nd-threepeat with Pippen being banged up each of those playoffs and statistically terrible offensively. No one remembers that for Magic's last 3 championships Kareem was over 35 years old and didn't play more then 32 mpg in the playoffs, and for his last 4 championships, Kareem couldn't average double digit rebounds. ETC.

BlazerRed

05-26-2015, 05:52 PM

IMO Durant would still be ahead all time
What alternative universe am I stuck in?

Duncan21formvp

05-26-2015, 06:55 PM

afaik

Kyrie is averaging 19\3.5\3.5 on this playoffs, so i don't get the without part.
No one in his right mind would bench Tristan for Love now.
And there's no chance in hell varejao would start over Mozgod.

So yeah the most stacked team in the NBA lost some depth, poor Lebron he never has enough help.

The overrating of the statpadder continues.

Considering the Cavs basically got Shumpert, JR SMith and Mozgov for free anyway and that turned there season around. Without them 3 the Cavs were below .500. So those are the reasons the Cavs are good not Lebron. Lebron had them at below .500.

ShawkFactory

05-26-2015, 07:01 PM

Considering the Cavs basically got Shumpert, JR SMith and Mozgov for free anyway and that turned there season around. Without them 3 the Cavs were below .500. So those are the reasons the Cavs are good not Lebron. Lebron had them at below .500.
So using that logic the Cavs would still be good if they lost Lebron.