Perkins/JR Smith: "LeBron > Jordan"

[IllegalD]

http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/post/_/id/12952100/cavaliers-perkins-smith-stir-lebron-james-michael-jordan-debate


Perkins, as told to Northeast Ohio Media Group: "The only thing that he's missing is a couple more championships, and then it's a wrap. Right now, we have arguably the best player to ever play the game. I'm just saying, man. I'm not taking anything away from Jordan, but all [James is] missing is titles. A couple of more titles, and that's it."


And Smith, as told to the same publication: "That's one hell of a debate. Honestly, in my opinion, if it's not Jordan, then it's him. It used to be no question. It was a landslide. It was Jordan. Now, you have to consider my boy."

Thoughts? :confusedshrug:

[nathanjizzle]

they are his teammates.

[Trollsmasher]

Can't argue. Both Perk and JR are highly intelligent students of the game.

[VengefulAngel]

Can't argue. Both Perk and JR are highly intelligent students of the game.

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[ISHGoat]

Can't argue. Both Perk and JR are highly intelligent students of the game.


:biggums:

:roll: :roll:

[aj1987]

Can't argue. Both Perk and JR are highly intelligent students of the game.
I know you're being sarcastic, but.. :roll: :roll:

Oh, inb4 butthurt MJ stans.

[Eric Cartman]

Can't argue. Both Perk and JR are highly intelligent students of the game.
All that ganja has made J.R. wise :applause:

:roll:

[r15mohd]

none of those quotes indicate Lebron greater than MJ :facepalm both indicate he needs a bit more under his belt, which EVERYONE else agrees too

so gullible OP :rolleyes:

[Beastmode88]

Can't argue. Both Perk and JR are highly intelligent students of the game.

:roll: :roll: :roll:

[Harison]

:roll:
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:roll: :roll: :roll:

[IllegalD]

none of those quotes indicate Lebron greater than MJ :facepalm both indicate he needs a bit more under his belt, which EVERYONE else agrees too

so gullible OP :rolleyes:

So then you agree with Perk's assessment that all he needs is "a couple of more titles" (2 more titles) and "it's a wrap"? (meaning LeBron > Jordan no questions asked) :confusedshrug:

[RRR3]

JR is a fool and Perkins is Perkins.

[dh144498]

Can't argue. Both Perk and JR are highly intelligent students of the game.

:lol
:roll:

[Out_In_Utah]

Can't argue. Both Perk and JR are highly intelligent students of the game.
:roll:

[raprap]

Can't argue. Both Perk and JR are highly intelligent students of the game.
:lol

[Sakkreth]

Fck op tho, they are not saying that he's better.

[BigTicket]

I like that they have their teammate's back, but they are still clearly wrong.

Lebron is top 10, with a shot at top 5, but he's not better than Jordan, and never will be.

[3ball]

so you agree that all Lebron needs is "a couple of more titles" and he's > Jordan no questions asked?



^^^ Then Lebron would've won 4 championships with inferior stats:


Regular Season Thru Age 30:

MJ: 32.3 PPG, 6.3 RPG, 5.9 APG, 2.7 SPG, 1.0 BPG, 58.9 TS%, 121 ORtg, 29.8 PER, 0.274 WS/48
LB: 27.3 PPG, 7.1 RPG, 6.9 APG, 1.7 SPG, 0.8 BPG, 58.1 TS%, 116 ORtg, 27.7 PER, 0.240 WS/48


Playoffs Thru Age 30:

MJ: 34.7 PPG, 6.7 RPG, 6.6 APG, 2.3 SPG, 1.0 BPG, 58.1 TS%, 119 ORtg, 29.6 PER, 0.258 WS/48
LB: 27.9 PPG, 8.5 RPG, 6.5 APG, 1.7 SPG, 0.9 BPG, 57.8 TS%, 115 ORtg, 27.4 PER, 0.236 WS/48


Finals Thru Age 30:

MJ: 36.3 PPG, 6.6 RPG, 7.9 APG, 2.0 SPG, 0.76 BPG, 52.6% FG, 40.7% 3 PT
LB: 24.1 PPG, 8.7 RPG, 6.4 APG, 1.8 SPG, 0.55 BPG, 46.3 FG%, 31.2% 3 PT


The above can ONLY mean that Lebron had a TON more help than Jordan.. :confusedshrug:



Source for Lebron's Finals Numbers: http://swishnba.com/2014/06/05/michael-jordan-vs-lebron-james-2014-comparison/ (scroll to bottom, right before last section on "competition")

Source for all other stats: basketball-reference.com

[3ball]

Wait.. Perk and JR Smith played MJ?

Where? When? How did I miss it?

[Eric Cartman]

World Peace said Jordan was the best player he ever played against, and he was age 40.

[3ball]

World Peace said Jordan was the best player he played against, and MJ was age 40.



and that's the key - Ron Artest actually PLAYED against MJ:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5dXZxj6Zbc&t=0m57s

[IllegalD]

Great discussion so far, guys. Keep it up. :applause:

But I'd love to hear what La LeBron Famiglia has to say on the matter... :confusedshrug:

[scandisk_]

Great discussion so far, guys. Keep it up. :applause:

But I'd love to hear what La LeBron Famiglia has to say on the matter... :confusedshrug:

wtf? :roll:

[Dro]

they are his teammates.
Thread/

[funnystuff]

This dude 3ball acting so threatened by Bron Bron in every thread.

Dude posts the exact same stats in every single thread my god.

[VIntageNOvel]

Can't argue. Both Perk and JR are highly intelligent students of the game.

Trollsmasher live up to his name:applause: :applause:

[dubeta]

It's flat out insulting that a dude that went 1-9 without superstars is being compared to lebron

[Prometheus]

I have MJ > Bron always and forever, but it is pretty impressive the way people end up singing bran's praises so heavily once they compete on his side. Remember what Jim Boeheim and Pat Riley said?

[r15mohd]

So then you agree with Perk's assessment that all he needs is "a couple of more titles" (2 more titles) and "it's a wrap"? (meaning LeBron > Jordan no questions asked) :confusedshrug:


nope...because I'm not stupid to take the paraphrasing literally as you trolls would. :rolleyes:

as it stands, Lebron is a top 10 GOAT. personally he is #10 for me. he's not at MJ's level yet, but if he can keep adding the accolades to his name...you have to reassess the top 10 listing, as Lebron can only move up at this point. when you take the comment with context, it's basically what's being said.

and 3ball is the worst MJ stan ever...the efforts you put into trying to assure MJ is #1 is absurd. it's a staple right now, if you can't realize it, which cant be refuted until those in the top 10 can surmount more to their name. and this is from an MJ fan above all else. :facepalm

[IMObjective]

"all James is missing is a couple titles..."

lol, no shit sherlock. everyone knows number of titles is a HUGE factor in determining greatness. If lebron was that close or better in comparison, he simply would've won more titles with all chances he gave himself. he could've had four or five right now, knocking on Jordan's door.

He really could've been the best if it wasn't for his one weakness, being a bit fragile mentally, especially when adversity is at it's greatest. Too bad for him, good for us haters who can't stand his douchiness.

[Prometheus]

"all James is missing is a couple titles..."

lol, no shit sherlock. everyone knows number of titles is a HUGE factor in determining greatness. If lebron was that close or better in comparison, he simply would've won more titles with all chances he gave himself. he could've had four or five right now, knocking on Jordan's door.

He really could've been the best if it wasn't for his one weakness, being a bit fragile mentally, especially when adversity is at it's greatest. Too bad for him, good for us haters who can't stand his douchiness.

If you actually look at it year by year, and are honest with yourself, he could only realistically have won three by now. 2011 is the only other year he could have done it.

[3ball]

I have MJ > Bron always and forever, but it is pretty impressive the way people end up singing bran's praises so heavily once they compete on his side.


That's the key - Perk and JR Smith actually played with/against Lebron but never with MJ... Whereas Ron Artest DID... he played vs both Lebron and MJ, and said MJ was easily better.





Remember what Jim Boeheim and Pat Riley said?


President of the Heat, Pat Riley said those things when Lebron played for the Heat - he was giving the MVP award presentation for 2013.

So it was before the 2014 Finals and offseason... Riley is expected to say that when LeBron has just led him to 2 straight rings and is well-known as a team-hoppity grasshopper that needs appeasement,..

But I'd like to hear Riley repeat those things post-2014 Finals, and now that Lebron is no longer a Heat.. Now that he no longer has to kiss ass, he'd be free to speak his mind.
.

[IMObjective]

If you actually look at it year by year, and are honest with yourself, he could only realistically have won three by now. 2011 is the only other year he could have done it.
You are most likely right, was actually thinking about editing to say maybe only 3 or 4 by now. I feel like in 2014 he gave up on his team and started to just play for stats not caring who won or lost, knowing people will blame his team for being much worse than the Spurs. Without the pressure of winning he put up some nice stats, but I didn't see much effort in motivating his team to play better.

Since he's only 30 he still has time to catch Jordan, but it seems unlikely he will win four more. And I know it's not just about ring count, but from where I stand it looks like he'll need at the very least at least three more rings to enter the conversation.

[iamgine]

And Smith, as told to the same publication: "That's one hell of a debate. Honestly, in my opinion, if it's not Jordan, then it's him. It used to be no question. It was a landslide. It was Jordan. Now, you have to consider my boy."

When he say "used to" he means around five months ago.

[inclinerator]

rumor has it jordan retired the year lebron came in the league because he was afraid


couldnt even look him in the eye
https://i.imgur.com/VdjnKAL.jpg

[FPJ]

You guys are missing the point, those two just took a gigantic dump on both Durant and Melo (and their respective fanbase who thought they were close to Lebron).

[3ball]

couldnt even look him in the eye


Nah.. It's just that he was already contemplating the many ways he could destroy him and was momentarily distracted by that.. Who gets more out of the meeting?.. Lebron.. Hence his keen interest in MJ and MJ's well-being.

And considering he was so old at the time, he basically did - in 2003 at 40 years old, he put up 23 PPG on 48% TS, which is the same as Lebron did in 2004 against the same pre-rule-change defenses - this was Lebron's only season PRE-RULE CHANGES.

[Tarik One]

(Sam)Perkins/(Kenny)Smith: "Jordan > LeBron"

[Prometheus]

That's the key - Perk and JR Smith actually played with/against Lebron but never with MJ... Whereas Ron Artest DID... he played vs both Lebron and MJ, and said MJ was easily better.



President of the Heat, Pat Riley said those things when Lebron played for the Heat - he was giving the MVP award presentation for 2013.

So it was before the 2014 Finals and offseason... Riley is expected to say that when LeBron has just led him to 2 straight rings and is well-known as a team-hoppity grasshopper that needs appeasement,..

But I'd like to hear Riley repeat those things post-2014 Finals, and now that Lebron is no longer a Heat.. Now that he no longer has to kiss ass, he'd be free to speak his mind.
.

I completely agree with everything you said here. What about Boeheim though? Is he just full of shit?

[r15mohd]

"all James is missing is a couple titles..."

lol, no shit sherlock. everyone knows number of titles is a HUGE factor in determining greatness. If lebron was that close or better in comparison, he simply would've won more titles with all chances he gave himself. he could've had four or five right now, knocking on Jordan's door.

He really could've been the best if it wasn't for his one weakness, being a bit fragile mentally, especially when adversity is at it's greatest. Too bad for him, good for us haters who can't stand his douchiness.

titles are only taken at face value, wouldnt even say it was a HUGE factor because both Kareem and Russel would be ranked ahead of MJ if it were, which isn't true at all...context behind it proves more worthy

Russel has almost twice as many titles as MJ
Kobe has 1-less and is about to fall out the top 10
Wilt has 2 titles and in the top 3-4

[guy]

If you actually look at it year by year, and are honest with yourself, he could only realistically have won three by now. 2011 is the only other year he could have done it.

He's the main reason they lost in 2010 when they were the favorites, getting blown out in 2 home games including the historically terrible game 5. No excuses for 2014 either, when he wasn't aggressive enough, taking a pathetic 18 FGA and 6 FTA per game in the Finals of all series. Maybe by his standard, he could've only won three by now. But by Jordan's standard, which is what we are measuring, he should have 4 or 5 by now. His main problem is he's nowhere near as clutch and just doesn't have the same aggressive nature.

[guy]

"all James is missing is a couple titles..."

lol, no shit sherlock. everyone knows number of titles is a HUGE factor in determining greatness. If lebron was that close or better in comparison, he simply would've won more titles with all chances he gave himself. he could've had four or five right now, knocking on Jordan's door.

He really could've been the best if it wasn't for his one weakness, being a bit fragile mentally, especially when adversity is at it's greatest. Too bad for him, good for us haters who can't stand his douchiness.

All James is missing a couple more titles. He has a couple of titles, and it took him 11 seasons to do that. And he's on the decline. The logic is hilarious.

[jstern]

Can't argue. Both Perk and JR are highly intelligent students of the game.

This

[ArbitraryWater]

He's the main reason they lost in 2010 when they were the favorites, getting blown out in 2 home games including the historically terrible game 5. No excuses for 2014 either, when he wasn't aggressive enough, taking a pathetic 18 FGA and 6 FTA per game in the Finals of all series. Maybe by his standard, he could've only won three by now. But by Jordan's standard, which is what we are measuring, he should have 4 or 5 by now. His main problem is he's nowhere near as clutch and just doesn't have the same aggressive nature.

this again.... where's the point in taking more shots when it didnt work either way? he tried both, nobody else got going, and the Spurs over-ran them with Bron scoring or not.

[fragokota]

titles are only taken at face value, wouldnt even say it was a HUGE factor because both Kareem and Russel would be ranked ahead of MJ if it were, which isn't true at all...context behind it proves more worthy

Russel has almost twice as many titles as MJ
Kobe has 1-less and is about to fall out the top 10
Wilt has 2 titles and in the top 3-4

:biggums:

[r15mohd]

:biggums:


:coleman:


1 - MJ
2 - Kareem
3/4 - Russel or Wilt...take your pick
5 - Magic
6 - Bird
7 - TD
8 - Shaq
9 - Kobe
10/11 - Hakeem/Lebron...all said and done once Lebron's career's over, he will be 10th for the very minimum

[Beastmode88]

rumor has it jordan retired the year lebron came in the league because he was afraid


couldnt even look him in the eye

dude doesnt waste his time with betas.

[fragokota]

:coleman:


1 - MJ
2 - Kareem
3/4 - Russel or Wilt...take your pick
5 - Magic
6 - Bird
7 - TD
8 - Shaq
9 - Kobe
10/11 - Hakeem/Lebron...all said and done once Lebron's career's over, he will be 10th for the very minimum

MJ,KAJ,Magic,Bird is a lock for your average sports fan of a certain age. Wilt # 3 my ass...

[edrick]

Can't argue. Both Perk and JR are highly intelligent students of the game.

No different than any of us retards on here, posting like we know shit. :lol

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Can't argue. Both Perk and JR are highly intelligent students of the game.
:applause:

[sd3035]

Can't argue. Both Perk and JR are highly intelligent students of the game.



:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[Dro]

I like Lebron, I don't have a problem putting him in my top 10..But he definitely needs just "more than a couple titles", to catch MJ. Like others have said, if it were about rings, Jordan would not be pretty much unanimously #1 right now.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

I like Lebron, I don't have a problem putting him in my top 10..But he definitely needs just "more than a couple titles", to catch MJ. Like others have said, if it were about rings, Jordan would not be pretty much unanimously #1 right now.
It's not just about rings but if Russell won his 11 rings in a 20+ team non-weak era he would most certainly be considered a unanimous goat.

[Dro]

It's not just about rings but if Russell won his 11 rings in a 20+ team non-weak era he would most certainly be considered a unanimous goat.
According to ish, Russell did play in a weak era...

[RoundMoundOfReb]

According to ish, Russell did play in a weak era...
I know. Because he did. And that's why he isn't considered GOAT by most. But if he won more rings than MJ in the same (or similar) era then he would be considered GOAT...whether he was/is actually better than MJ or not.

[Brokenbeat]

Can't argue. Both Perk and JR are highly intelligent students of the game.

:oldlol: :applause:

[guy]

this again.... where's the point in taking more shots when it didnt work either way? he tried both, nobody else got going, and the Spurs over-ran them with Bron scoring or not.

Really? He was consistently aggressive for 1 game.....the game they won. Maybe you can give him a pass for game 1. He was very passive in game 3. He was aggressive in one quarter in game 4, after being passive for the first half and the Spurs were blowing them out. By that point, up 2-1 blowing them out in game 4 and with HCA, the Spurs were way too confident and the Heat were too deflated for the result to possibly change.

And even with that being the case, no one ever said you're going to win every single game with that consistently aggressive approach. Jordan didn't. You would have a point if I said the Heat would've swept them if Lebron did that. Of course not. But the majority of the time that's what will happen and why Jordan won as much as he did. That approach is needed from a superstar ESPECIALLY when their teammates don't have it. You think Jordan's teammates didn't have a lot of terrible shooting nights? That superstar needs to takeover and swing the momentum so his teammates can ride that momentum and take advantage of the easier opportunities they will get from the defense naturally focusing more on the superstar. That's what Jordan did. Not play passive and use his teammates as an excuse for not winning.

[Dro]

I know. Because he did. And that's why he isn't considered GOAT by most. But if he won more rings than MJ in the same (or similar) era then he would be considered GOAT...whether he was/is actually better than MJ or not.
Ok, I understand what you're saying.

[pauk]

Ok you can perhaps argue about who was the most talented player of all time, for me its something like between Wilt, Jordan, Lebron & Oscar perhaps, Shaq..... hopefully they are talking about that...

But speaking of careers/accolades this is just silly talk....

I love Lebrons game.... but the thought of somebody surpassing Michael Jordans career/accolades for me is silly.... even just the imagination of somebody 100 years ahead surpassing Michael Jordan is silly.... Thats how high MJ has set the bar i think... Lebron needs 3 more fmvps to tie him (4 fmvps if he wants to surpass him) and needs 1 more mvp to tie him (2 mvps if he wants to surpass him).... Jordan has some other things that may need to be tied/surpassed aswell, as say maybe DPOY... and some stats...

The bar is just ridicilously high.... we have tried this with Kobe and now its Lebrons turn, its really not fair to Lebron/Kobe & disrespectful to Jordan.... because now anything they do is "not impressive" because "MJ did this & that"....

Stop that crap, stop trying desperately to see somebody surpass MJ.... NOBODY will ever surpass Michael Jordan..... trust me on this... Unless you think somebody will have:

7 x fmvp
7 x rings
6 x mvps
2 x dpoys
and so on.... and average a 30+ point triple double.....

Then ok...... thats a legit undisputable "surpassing of MJ"....

Its not just the accolades, its not just the talent, but what he did/meant for the NBA & basketball itself globally aswell... the guy should have a statue at every NBA court, the NBA should change the logo, his jersey retired in every arena and so on....

Screw that and just try to appreciate Duncan, Kobe and now Lebron is one of the last Top 10 all-time players you will maybe ever see in your lifetime and unlike those other two Lebron has still a couple of good years left.... because that top 10 list is extremly stacked at the moment while the gap between them aint so huge and Lebron is amongst those who are guarding the entrance there and he is not even done.... so to get in there means being more talented than Lebron and ending up with more impressive accolades.... you wont see that in decades imo... Dont get caught up in him not living up to the Lebron > Jordan expectations and miss this....

You dont like Lebron? Well, if he is gone all you will have is guys like Rose, Curry, Westbrook, Griffin & Harden for decades.... guys who are good, but will never reach the TOP 10.... only Durant has a very tiny chance, as it is yet to be proven he is on his way..... have fun with that.... you are taking what you are seeing at the moment for granted....

TL;DR:

HELL NO... but Lebron is damn good...

[Noyze]

Can't argue. Both Perk and JR are highly intelligent students of the game.

:lol :lol :lol :banana:

Top 5 post this year?

[Tmuston Beltics]

Wait.. Perk and JR Smith played MJ?

Where? When? How did I miss it?

Because you weren't born yet

[Roundball_Rock]

none of those quotes indicate Lebron greater than MJ :facepalm both indicate he needs a bit more under his belt, which EVERYONE else agrees too

so gullible OP :rolleyes:

No but it implies LeBron is on par with Jordan as a player (false imo--MJ is superior) and the only difference between them is in their resumes. That said, of course they will be pro-LeBron. He is their teammate.

[Dbrog]

thought of somebody surpassing Michael Jordans career/accolades for me is silly

:lol


http://www.sportscollectorsdigest.com/wp-content/uploads/BillRussell_Rings.jpg

[sportjames23]

No but it implies LeBron is on par with Jordan as a player (false imo--MJ is superior) and the only difference between them is in their resumes. That said, of course they will be pro-LeBron. He is their teammate.


Oh shit, who are you and have you done with Roundball_Rock?

[sportjames23]

:lol


http://www.sportscollectorsdigest.com/wp-content/uploads/BillRussell_Rings.jpg


Russell only surpasses MJ in ring count. Just about everything else, MJ surpasses Russ.

[dubeta]

Russell only surpasses MJ in ring count. Just about everything else, MJ surpasses Russ.

In first round losses?

[LeBird]

Russell only surpasses MJ in ring count. Just about everything else, MJ surpasses Russ.

More like, besides the offensive side (passing/scoring) Russell surpasses MJ in everything else.

[TheMan]

More like, besides the offensive side (passing/scoring) Russell surpasses MJ in everything else.
Yeah because that's so overrated...Ben Wallace and Mutombo are legit top 10 GOATs, so overlooked :rolleyes:

[LeBird]

Yeah because that's so overrated...Ben Wallace and Mutombo are legit top 10 GOATs, so overlooked :rolleyes:

No one was as good as Russell defensively. By all accounts he is the Jordan - if not even more of an outlier since Jordan has Wilt for competition - of defence.

He won far more rings than Jordan, and if things like the Finals MVP accolade existed for Bill Russell's entire career he'd be far ahead on that count as well - heck, they named it after him.

So to pretend like Russell doesn't have a case is stupid beyond belief. If you're stacking up things like titles, chips, awards, etc, without an overall interest on the player's strengths...Russell shits on Jordan and it isn't close.

[Mrofir]

All I need is 6 more championships, 5 more MVPs, and 6 more finals MVPs to be tied with Jordan.


It used to be a landslide but now you have to consider my boy: me.