MJ was first player to lead NBA in scoring AND win championship

[3ball]

Shockingly, since the NBA's inception in 1947, no one did it until 1991.

MJ did it 6 times total while Shaq did it once in 2000... AND THAT'S IT.

I actually didn't know this until just now, when I was ridiculed in another thread for saying "a team with the league's leading scorer is not optimally built."

Apparently, it's 100% spot on - for 44 NBA seasons (1947-1991), no team was able to win a championship with the league's leading scorer.. Then MJ's came along with an off-ball, highly assisted style that enabled a championship, dynasty-level chemistry.

And MJ said it himself - he said that winning a ring as the scoring champ was a MAJOR goal of his to prove everyone wrong - when I first saw this clip years ago, it didn't register that no one had ever done it before:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIY_4vIxGEE&t=24m29s

[PHILA]

MJ did it 6 times total while Shaq did it once in 2000... AND THAT'S IT.
Joe Fulks, KAJ, and Mikan also did it, however Jordan & Mikan are the only ones to do it more than once.

[sportjames23]

Actually, Kareem did it in 1971. He was the last to do it until MJ.

[3ball]

Joe Fulks, KAJ, and Mikan also did it, however Jordan & Mikan are the only ones to do it more than once.


Fulks once in 1947... Kareem once in 1971... Mikan twice in 1950 and 1951.. Shaq once in 2000.

And MJ did it six times - most importantly, he was the very first and only non-center to ever do it.

The point remains - it's GENERALLY not optimal for winning if a team has the league-leading scorer.. And it's essentially NEVER optimal for a team to have a leading scorer that's not a center..

The only leading scorer you can win a ring with that's NOT a center, is MJ.
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[24-Inch_Chrome]

Joe Fulks is listed as a small forward on Wikipedia and a PF on basketball-reference, so it looks like he wasn't a center either.

[SillyRabbit]

Fulks once in 1947... Kareem once in 1971... Mikan twice in 1950 and 1951.. Shaq once in 2000.

And MJ did it six times - most importantly, he was the very first and only non-center to ever do it.

The point remains - it's GENERALLY not optimal for winning if a team has the league-leading scorer.. And it's essentially NEVER optimal for a team to have a leading scorer that's not a center..

The only leading scorer you can win a ring with that's NOT a center, is MJ.
.

If he's 100% fully healthy, Durant has a shot at doing it next season.

If Billy Donovan can coach a better offense than Scott Brooks (won't be very difficult) then OKC is right up there with Golden State.

[Rocketswin2013]

You know what, Jordan was fantastic. Durant is the only guy I think who can do this in today's league.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Of course Mikan (GOAT) did it multiple times :applause:

[3ball]

If he's 100% fully healthy, Durant has a shot at doing it next season.


He would make history - the only non-center to ever do it was MJ.

But I would LOVE to see it.. I like Durant's GAME.. A pure shooting touch at that height and athleticism is so scary.. Once he turns into a post player - watch out.. and he will be posting up next year because the foot injuries will take a tad of that bounce away..

There's no reason why he shouldn't have the GOAT turnaround jumpshot before his career is over (yeah, even better than MJ's, who currently has the GOAT turnaround for non-bigs).

[ThatCoolKid]

He would make history - the only non-center to ever do it was MJ.

But I would LOVE to see it.. I like Durant's GAME.. A pure shooting touch at that height and athleticism is so scary.. Once he turns into a post player - watch out.. and he will be posting up next year because the foot injuries will take a tad of that bounce away..

There's no reason why he shouldn't have the GOAT turnaround jumpshot before his career is over (yeah, even better than MJ's, who currently has the GOAT turnaround for non-bigs).

He's not strong enough and has too high a center of mass to be a threat posting up.

[3ball]

He's not strong enough and has too high a center of mass to be a threat posting up.
very true.. my previous post was the optimistic version of things that seem possible..

whereas your post could be the reality post... but i'm hoping it's just the pessimistic post

[24-Inch_Chrome]

Joe Fulks is listed as a small forward on Wikipedia and a PF on basketball-reference, so it looks like he wasn't a center either.

:confusedshrug:

[3ball]

:confusedshrug:
Fair enough... Fulks did it in 1947, so I can amend the statement:

Since 1948, MJ is the only non-center ever to lead the league in scoring and win a championship in the same season.

3 centers have done it - Mikan twice, KAJ once, and Shaq once... However, MJ did it a whopping 6 times despite not being a center, more than everyone else combined (6 for MJ.. only 5 for KAJ, Mikan, Fulks, Shaq combined).

[Eric Cartman]

Does one even include Joe Fulks? Look at this bullsh*t:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JkxCrtdPNSc&hd=1&ab_channel=FredCervantez

I mean, ffs, first finals ever, not even real basketball was played, not to mention no black players.

[3ball]

Does one even include Joe Fulks? Look at this bullsh*t:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JkxCrtdPNSc&hd=1&ab_channel=FredCervantez

I mean, ffs, first finals ever, not even real basketball was played, not to mention no black players.
No black players?.. :no:

I was unaware.. Let me amend my previous statement - MJ is the ONLY non-center in the history of the NBA to lead the league in scoring and win a ring in the same season... :confusedshrug:

And obviously, from a GM's standpoint, the empirical evidence shows it's almost impossible for the league's leading scorer to win a ring.. And it's virtually impossible if that leading scorer is a non-center.. Unless that non-center is MJ - then you can win more than all other leading scorers combined.
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[dunksby]

3ball is the prototypical ESPN raised stan.

[sdot_thadon]

Poor 3ball, making lie threads now. Don't worry we all know who Mj is and haven't forgotten about him 3ball. :oldlol:

About the topic though, the reason it wasn't done often is because it's not really pure basketball. Mj was seen as the exception to the rule. Not the standard, that's where the perspective has gotten so skewed over the years.

[ArbitraryWater]

So Joe Fulks did it in the 2nd year the NBA existed in.................... /thread

[Kblaze8855]

How do so many people make these topics without even checking to see if they are true? I swear we have three topics a week on how something has never been done when it turns out it's been done 16 times.

[ClipperRevival]

Whether another non-center did it in 1947 is irrelevant. The point is, it's almost impossible for a wing player to lead the league in scoring AND win a championship. This just goes to show once again how much of an offensive burden MJ really had to carry. A burden that was probably the heaviest in the history of the game for an alpha dog that wasn't a center.

[TiagoSimoes]

Whether another non-center did it in 1947 is irrelevant. The point is, it's almost impossible for a wing player to lead the league in scoring AND win a championship. This just goes to show once again how much of an offensive burden MJ really had to carry. A burden that was probably the heaviest in the history of the game for an alpha dog that wasn't a center.

3ball forgot to change names?:lol

[DonDadda59]

Does one even include Joe Fulks? Look at this bullsh*t:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JkxCrtdPNSc&hd=1&ab_channel=FredCervantez

Dat ball movement. Hero ball slayed. :pimp:

[kshutts1]

How do so many people make these topics without even checking to see if they are true? I swear we have three topics a week on how something has never been done when it turns out it's been done 16 times.
so ban him.

Was it not you that threatened him with a ban if he didn't keep all his MJ BS in one thread?

[3ball]

How do so many people make these topics without even checking to see if they are true? I swear we have three topics a week on how something has never been done when it turns out it's been done 16 times.


Other than MJ, the league's scoring leader has won a championship only 4 times, all by centers (Mikan twice.. KAJ once.. Shaq once).

But MJ is the only non-center to ever do it and he's done it 6 times, more than the aforementioned centers combined.

So the thread is quite valid - essentially, it's NEARLY impossible to win a championship if you're the league's leading scorer, and it's VIRTUALLY impossible if you aren't a center, unless you're MJ.. :confusedshrug:
.

[SugarHill]

Other than MJ, the league's scoring leader has won a championship only 4 times, all by centers (Mikan twice.. KAJ once.. Shaq once).

But MJ is the only non-center to ever do it and he's done it 6 times, more than the aforementioned centers combined.

So the thread is quite valid - essentially, it's NEARLY impossible to win a championship if you're the league's leading scorer, and it's VIRTUALLY impossible if you aren't a center, unless you're MJ.. :confusedshrug:
.
How is it valid if the entire OP is wrong?

[CavaliersFTW]

Shockingly, since the NBA's inception in 1947, no one did it until 1991.

Joe Fulks, KAJ, and Mikan also did it.
http://images.complex.com/complex/image/upload/t_article_image/lkg1ctrmbs89u11smf8j.gif

[3ball]

How is it valid if the entire OP is wrong?


It's not wrong, just misstated... MJ is the first and only non-center to ever do it, and he did it more times (6), than the 3 centers that did it combined (4).

The fact that no other non-center has ever done it, and the fact that MJ did it a whopping SIX TIMES, proves he had the greatest scoring burden in the history of the game, and also the least empty stats ever (leading the league in scoring AND winning championship = FULL stats, not empty).

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

It's not wrong, just misstated... MJ is the first and only non-center to ever do it, and he did it more times (6), than the 3 centers that did it combined (4).

The fact that no other non-center has ever done it, and the fact that MJ did it a whopping SIX TIMES, proves he had the greatest scoring burden in the history of the game, and also the least empty stats ever too (leading league in scoring AND winning championship = FULL stats, not empty).
But you never misstated. You claimed he was the ONLY player in history to do so before Shaq.

After being corrected by other posters (MJ was actually 1 of 16 players to do so), you frantically switched your position.

Your OP was wrong. Now take your lumps.

[CavaliersFTW]

It's not wrong, just misstated... MJ is the first and only non-center to ever do it, and he did it more times (6), than the 3 centers that did it combined (4).

The fact that no other non-center has ever done it, and the fact that MJ did it a whopping SIX TIMES, proves he had the greatest scoring burden in the history of the game, and also the least empty stats ever (leading the league in scoring AND winning championship = FULL stats, not empty).
Joe Fulks is not a center.

[3ball]

some misinformation itt :lol

[CavaliersFTW]

some misinformation itt :lol
forget to switch accounts? :wtf:

[3ball]

Joe Fulks is not a center.


We decided we weren't counting Fulks because at the time he did it in 1947, the NBA didn't allow black players.. Ditto for when Mikan did it.

Black players weren't allowed in NBA until the end of the 1950 season - April 26th, 1950, was the first time a black player ever played in NBA.. So Fulks and Mikan are disqualified.

This is a legit reason to disqualify.. :confusedshrug:

[RRR3]

My great grandpappy saw Joe Fulks play. He used to tell me the great Fulks was the GOAT, hands down (mans down). According to pappy, Fulks was so good he used to miss on purpose, just to make the games close (hence his low FG%). He also said Fulks was easily better than MJ.

[CavaliersFTW]

We decided we weren't counting Fulks because at the time he did it in 1947, the NBA didn't allow black players.. Ditto for when Mikan did it.

Black players weren't allowed in NBA until the end of the 1950 season - April 26th, 1950, was the first time a black player ever played in NBA.. So Fulks and Mikan are disqualified.

This is a legit reason to disqualify.. :confusedshrug:
Arbitrary.

Historically, MJ is not the first player to ever do what you claimed in the OP. Nor is he the first non-center. Joe Fulks was this is cut and dry. No need to diminish Fulks achievement just to prop up MJ, do you think Fulks had any control over integration when he got his title and lead the league in scoring?

Anyone could just counter your arbitrary stipulation by arbitrarily cutting off all of MJ's 6 scoring titles/championships because it was pre-zone and pre-international stars era. MJ never did it with the influx of European stars. Er-go I proclaim his don't count either.

[RRR3]

ITT:

CavsFTW=Wilt Chamberlain

3ball=Walt Bellamy



:lol

[3ball]

Joe Fulks was this is cut and dry. No need to diminish Fulks achievement just to prop up MJ, do you think Fulks had any control over integration when he got his title and lead the league in scoring?

Anyone could just counter your arbitrary stipulation by arbitrarily cutting off all of MJ's 6 scoring titles/championships because it was pre-zone and pre-international stars era. MJ never did it with the influx of European stars. Er-go I proclaim his don't count either.
The NBA is less athletic because of all the Euros.. It hasn't improved the NBA other than giving it more diversity, although that's always a good thing.

And hell yeah I'll diminish Fulks and Mikan's accomplishments - they didn't play with black players - this is the best reason of all to disqualify and reduce their accomplishments - it's logic, not any kind of favoritism.. I'm amazed you still want to include either.

[CavaliersFTW]

The NBA is less athletic because of all the Euros.. It hasn't improved the NBA other than giving it more diversity, although that's always a good thing.

As for Fulks and Mikan - they didn't play with black players - this is the best reason of all to disqualify them.. I'm amazed you still want to include either.
NBA history is NBA history.

Can't re-write it. If you're going to make NBA history threads proclaiming a player is the "first" to ever do something you had best be fully inclusive or it's just going to come off as an agenda thread.

Which this is it's not like we didn't know it was anyways.