2015 Tennis French Open

[imdaman99]

I don't get why the French Open doesn't fix their seedings like Wimbledon does. It's obvious Nadal is no 6th seed at the French. To set up a clash of the 2 best players there in the Quarterfinals is a travesty. Not looking forward to the hairs I'll pull seeing Nadal and Djoko so early (if things go as planned). Although Nadal has fallen off a lot, the fans deserve this matchup deeper with more on the line. I guess the French are sick and tired of Nadal, that's the only thing that can explain it :lol

Fan favorites Genie and Dimitrov already out early :facepalm

[fiddy]

Grisho needs to ditch that russian hoe :facepalm:

[dude77]

bouchard out too .. damn .. kinda surprised .. she's always getting deep into tournaments .. halep knocked out too in the 2nd round .. major disappointment for her there .. 5'7" diego schwartzman giving 6'4" monfils all he can handle .. tied a set apiece so far .. kid's a tough little scrapper

[BurningHammer]

Genie has been so bad lately, only 1 win in her last 9 matches, which means she has been out the first rounds in almost every tournaments she was in. If she really is the next great one she will find the way to come back though.

[dude77]

Genie has been so bad lately, only 1 win in her last 9 matches, which means she has been out the first rounds in almost every tournaments she was in. If she really is the next great one she will find the way to come back though.

whoa .. I didn't know that .. not so suprising after all then .. get it together genie ..

[imdaman99]

Djokovic-Nadal on Wednesday 4 AM (ET) confirmed http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-happy085.gif

Although I am not 100% sure about that 4 AM time. Can't believe we are seeing this in a Quarterfinals :facepalm

Serena snuck one out, also Sharapova is out.

[Done_And_Done]

Yeah, Genie has been an absolute wreck for a fair stretch now. It seems as soon as the media started clinging to her, she began dropping the ball. She's still very young and show's a ton of promise, but she's there's no denying that the girl is in a major funk right now...

[alenleomessi]

Yeah, Genie has been an absolute wreck for a fair stretch now. It seems as soon as the media started clinging to her, she began dropping the ball. She's still very young and show's a ton of promise, but she's there's no denying that the girl is in a major funk right now...
i know exactly what she needs

[gigantes]

looks like roland garros still isn't doing streaming like the other majors do. that's a lot less motivation to watch the joker - nadal match... on some crappy stream somewhere.

[Sarcastic]

I don't get why the French Open doesn't fix their seedings like Wimbledon does. It's obvious Nadal is no 6th seed at the French. To set up a clash of the 2 best players there in the Quarterfinals is a travesty. Not looking forward to the hairs I'll pull seeing Nadal and Djoko so early (if things go as planned). Although Nadal has fallen off a lot, the fans deserve this matchup deeper with more on the line. I guess the French are sick and tired of Nadal, that's the only thing that can explain it :lol

Fan favorites Genie and Dimitrov already out early :facepalm

Because they're doing everything they can to get Federer another title. He's had the easiest draw for how many slams now?

[imdaman99]

Because they're doing everything they can to get Federer another title. He's had the easiest draw for how many slams now?
Well, down goes Federer. However, I don't think Stan is a pushover. He has proven he is capable of beating the best.

Love me some Anna Ivanovic though, more than overrated Genie that's for sure.

[bdreason]

How does Nadal deserve better than a 6th seed?

It's not like he's been out injured and is just returning for the French. He's been playing Tennis, on clay, and losing. If Nadal wants a higher seed, he should win more matches.


Wawrinka and Tsonga through to the semi's. That should be a nice collision.

[imdaman99]

Because Nadal is not a 6th seed at the French Open. You rewarded the 1st seed Djokovic, who is starving for his first French Open title a QF matchup with the Roland Garros GOAT. That's not fair to him. Wimbledon changes seeds, they dropped Nadal's seed even though he was the #2 ranked player in the world because he had lost in the 1st round the previous year. Doesn't matter because Federer couldn't capitalize anyway.

[enayes]

Djokovic-Nadal on Wednesday 4 AM (ET) confirmed http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-happy085.gif

Although I am not 100% sure about that 4 AM time. Can't believe we are seeing this in a Quarterfinals :facepalm

Serena snuck one out, also Sharapova is out.

Nadal and Djokovic will be the 2nd match on whatever court there on tomorrow. The women's match will start at 8am ET, so around 10am ET is a good bet for the Nadal v. Djoker matchup.

[enayes]

Because Nadal is not a 6th seed at the French Open. You rewarded the 1st seed Djokovic, who is starving for his first French Open title a QF matchup with the Roland Garros GOAT. That's not fair to him. Wimbledon changes seeds, they dropped Nadal's seed even though he was the #2 ranked player in the world because he had lost in the 1st round the previous year. Doesn't matter because Federer couldn't capitalize anyway.

The seeds are selected based on their current rank, ideally Nadal is probably higher that a 6th seed but he been losing ON CLAY all year.

And saying "it's not fair" for Joker doesn't make much sense. Where particular seeds end up is done with a drawing so it's like they purposely had Nadal and Joker meet in the quarters. It's unlucky for Joker but not unfair.

[pinhead]

Murray is now the best clay court player in the world. He kicked that greasy spaniard's ass a few weeks ago.

[raiderfan19]

You guys that say they are doing it for fed are dumb. That's how both tourneys have always done it. Wimbledon is I believe the only major that seeds based on anything other than current world rank and they've done it for a while now.

[The_Yearning]

How does Nadal deserve better than a 6th seed?

It's not like he's been out injured and is just returning for the French. He's been playing Tennis, on clay, and losing. If Nadal wants a higher seed, he should win more matches.


Wawrinka and Tsonga through to the semi's. That should be a nice collision.

This dude stays shook at the thought of Nadal catching Federer's slam count.

Real heads all know the King of Clay is the real GOAT.

[plowking]

This dude stays shook at the thought of Nadal catching Federer's slam count.

Real heads all know the King of Clay is the real GOAT.

So the surface that is universally least liked among tennis folk now proves that somehow the player that dominates the most on it is the best?

He has won a single title outside of the French in the last 5 years...

GOAT my ass. Consistency is a large part of greatness, and he doesn't come close to Federer, or even Sampras, and even Djokovic in that regard.

Sampras and Federer are better players, and Djokovic will more than likely pass him too.

[dude77]

nadal owns federer head to head .. yes he has OWNED who many consider goat .. and he's beating djokovic head to head at the moment 23-20 I think and 9-3 in slams .. 14 slam titles .. also 9 titles at one slam .. possibly 10 .. is unprecedented .. he also has won all 4 slams .. sampras, another all time great, couldn't do it .. djokovic hasn't done it .. although he may soon .. he belongs in the conversation of all time greatest .. whoever disagrees is just a hater

[bdreason]

This dude stays shook at the thought of Nadal catching Federer's slam count.

Real heads all know the King of Clay is the real GOAT.


No experienced Tennis fan will ever consider Nadal the GOAT. He lacks both the resume and the consistency.


I don't like Nadal because I think his game is ugly, not because he's some threat to Federer. I have to admit that Nadal has improved parts of his game over the years, especially his serve, which has made him more watchable... but in general, I'm not a fan of pure defensive players who win matches primarily through unforced errors.

[raiderfan19]

Being a bad matchup for fed doesn't make nadal better. And outside of clay the head to head is basically even.

[bdreason]

Being a bad matchup for fed doesn't make nadal better. And outside of clay the head to head is basically even.



Nadal homers also like to leave out that Federer is 5 years older... and when Fed was Nadal's current age, he was #1 in the World and winning Majors. Nadal is in his prime and hasn't won a single tournament this year... not even on clay. :eek:

[dude77]

federer has a 2-1 edge on grass which is nothing .. nadal 9-6 on hard court, a superior surface for federer .. and 13-2 on clay .. nadal owns him period .. like his bitch .. there's no way around it .. nadal was regularly beating federer when federer was in his prime and nadal was a kid .. the only reason I put federer slightly ahead is 17-14 .. if nadal ever ties him, game over .. a more formidable and legit rival to nadal is djokovic who's played him tough for years now

[masonanddixon]

Pat Rafter is the GOAT

[aj1987]

Federer.... :facepalm I'm a HUGE fan, but dude needs to retire.

[masonanddixon]

Federer.... :facepalm I'm a HUGE fan, but when was the last time he won a major?

Like ten years ago. He sucks **** now.

[raiderfan19]

federer has a 2-1 edge on grass which is nothing .. nadal 9-6 on hard court, a superior surface for federer .. and 13-2 on clay .. nadal owns him period .. like his bitch .. there's no way around it .. nadal was regularly beating federer when federer was in his prime and nadal was a kid .. the only reason I put federer slightly ahead is 17-14 .. if nadal ever ties him, game over .. a more formidable and legit rival to nadal is djokovic who's played him tough for years now
So outside of clay, the matchup is 10-8 in favor of nadal... Soooo no he doesn't own him period. He owns him on clay.

Edit another way of looking at it. Fed has legit arguments to being the goat grass court player ever, the goat hard court player ever and to being the 3rd goat clay court player ever. Nadal is the goat clay player ever, a top 10 or so grass player ever and a top 50? Ish hard court player ever. The weirdness of clay that has allowed him to maintain a dominance for a long period of time helps with the number of majors and nadal is a legit all time level player but he's not anywhere near as good as fed.

[ArbitraryWater]

Its about to go down!!!

Rafa vs Djokovic... **** yea

[alenleomessi]

djokovic is smelling blood

[ArbitraryWater]

Djokovic's stability and early backhand returns, going into the ball, is something Fed didn't have against Rafa on clay.

Its absolutely amazing how many risks Rafa is taking, running around the backhand to take it with the forhand, how much ground he's covering, and field he's opening up...

I thought when he was down 0-4 and up 30-0 on Djokovic serve, if I could, I would bet some $ on Rafa winning the next 6 games, 6-4 this set... now its down to 4-3, 2 breaks back.... :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[ArbitraryWater]

Defended 3 set balls like a boss... only Rafa, didn't do 'em much and didn't work yet, pours in 2 drop balls on set points :lol

[imdaman99]

Still so fkin pissed this is a QF :rant

I have 0 shot of watching this match, if it was closer to the weekend I'd be all on this. Keep on giving us updates AW bro :cheers:

[ArbitraryWater]

Well, too bad, great comeback by Rafa to get back into the first set, but its over now (the set, not match)...

He kinda ruined it when he missed that lob up 30-15, could have given him a sure cushion and get it into the tiebreaker... instead it was 30-30, eventually had to defend the set again.. fought off TWO more set balls, I thought okay, make it like in the previous one, 3 each... but he lost on the 3rd :(

Looked like an easier one, open field, but Novak came to it, got it on the mark and made it hard for Rafa to return at the net...

thats for the update :cheers: but also :(

[imdaman99]

Just checked score, Djokovic breaks in the 2nd set up 5-3... I know he's been prone to getting knocked out at other slams, but I didn't wanna call Rafa near done till he lost at Roland Garros. Are we nearing the end of his reign there?

[ArbitraryWater]

This is about as good as a clay match can get.. 2 amazing close sets and both go to Novak :(

[IcanzIIravor]

This is about as good as a clay match can get.. 2 amazing close sets and both go to Novak :(

Your boy is going down. Tough run for him, but he will bounce back. Djoker is hulking up.

[gigantes]

pretty shocking how easily rafa got trounced after the 1st set. i guess the seedings were pretty accurate after all.

nice that djoker should be well-rested for the murray match.

[The_Yearning]

So the surface that is universally least liked among tennis folk now proves that somehow the player that dominates the most on it is the best?

He has won a single title outside of the French in the last 5 years...

GOAT my ass. Consistency is a large part of greatness, and he doesn't come close to Federer, or even Sampras, and even Djokovic in that regard.

Sampras and Federer are better players, and Djokovic will more than likely pass him too.

You have no idea what you're on about. The French Open is arguably as respected as Wimbledon where as the AO is by far and away the least prestigious of any Grand Slam.

[The_Yearning]

Nadal homers also like to leave out that Federer is 5 years older... and when Fed was Nadal's current age, he was #1 in the World and winning Majors. Nadal is in his prime and hasn't won a single tournament this year... not even on clay. :eek:

Tell me, who was Federer beating before Nadal came into the picture? Roddick? Old man Safin? Old man Agassi? Lleyton Hewitt? :roll:

[ArbitraryWater]

He was seriously competitive in the first 2 sets, could have gone either way, unlucky draw too, this early.. usually gets better as the tourney goes on.

In the 3rd, down 0-2, lost the next 2 games at 30-40 on a Djokovic netball each time..

[imdaman99]

Well, that's that. Got whooped. Djokovic on his way to a career slam, well deserved after all them heart breaking losses to Nadal in Paris.

Nadal has clearly lost his mojo, no telling if he's even gonna be in the top 10 after this, he's lost a lot of points here. I thought the beginning of his end was last year's Australian Open Final when he hurt his back and Stan slapped him around. Yes he won the FO later that year but he hasn't won much since. In the future, he will be able to compete there but not sure if he is capable of winning anywhere else. He's lost his confidence, he's losing to guys other than Djoko on clay as well.

[dunksby]

Safe to say Novak won Roland Garros? He is on another unreal run like in 11.

[The_Yearning]

Safe to say Novak won Roland Garros? He is on another unreal run like in 11.

He was on an unreal run in '11 and lost to Federer of all people at RG. With Novak you can never be certain he can overcome the mental obstacles of being a favorite. He might lose to Murray or even Stan. Nothing is a foregone conclusion at this point. If Nadal had won today, it would have been a foregone conclusion.

[gigantes]

i doubt it has much to do with rafa losing his 'mojo.'

rafa said earlier this year that he's not quite the same player any more. his style of play is ultra-punishing, he's been through tonnes of injuries, and he's at the age where most players are retiring.

[imdaman99]

Tell me, who was Federer beating before Nadal came into the picture? Roddick? Old man Safin? Old man Agassi? Lleyton Hewitt? :roll:
Exactly this. At least Nadal beat prime Federer on his favorite surface. And don't tell me he was no longer in his prime, when he had wins there the year after that. Mr Federer 'the goat' had to have someone else beat Nadal to win a French Open :roll:

[dunksby]

He was on an unreal run in '11 and lost to Federer of all people at RG. With Novak you can never be certain he can overcome the mental obstacles of being a favorite. He might lose to Murray or even Stan. Nothing is a foregone conclusion at this point. If Nadal had won today, it would have been a foregone conclusion.
Nah, I believe he has overcome those issues, Boris has bee a great influence.

[imdaman99]

i doubt it has much to do with rafa losing his 'mojo.'

rafa said earlier this year that he's not quite the same player any more. his style of play is ultra-punishing, he's been through tonnes of injuries, and he's at the age where most players are retiring.
Yeah, I meant what you wrote a lot more eloquently :cheers:

He hasn't lost a step, he's lost about 10 steps. There's a long way down when you go from King of Clay to what he is now. Him in 2008 :eek: But that was also 7 years ago. It's only natural.

[Carbine]

I wouldnt be so quick to write off a great champion of Nadals caliber yet.

[Carbine]

I said this few years ago, peak Joker is as good or better than anyone Ive seen.

Best returner ever. Elite movement. Great power/placement on groundstrokes. Good enough serve. I think he will age gracefully as well.

15 titles isnt out of the question he just entered his age 28 season.

[bdreason]

Nadal got spanked.



Tsongo vs. Wawrinka could be a fun match. Both guys are rounding into form lately, and both guys are offensive players. I don't see either of these guys beating Murray or Djoker though... not on clay.

[The_Yearning]

I said this few years ago, peak Joker is as good or better than anyone Ive seen.

Best returner ever. Elite movement. Great power/placement on groundstrokes. Good enough serve. I think he will age gracefully as well.

15 titles isnt out of the question he just entered his age 28 season.

Losing to Andy Murray in two GS finals negates this talk easily

[gigantes]

I said this few years ago, peak Joker is as good or better than anyone Ive seen.

Best returner ever. Elite movement. Great power/placement on groundstrokes. Good enough serve. I think he will age gracefully as well.

15 titles isnt out of the question he just entered his age 28 season.
djoker is my man for many reasons... but nadal and federer are legends.
let's not get ahead of ourselves, okay?

nole bloomed a little bit later than most dominant #1's... we saw reasons why... and that's all good. but let's just see what happens, eh...?

[Carbine]

I don't expect him to get 15 titles because 7 titles after your age 28 year is expecting a lot. But this is a period of time where he could rack them up in a hurry. Like five more titles in 8 slams.

With federer on his last leg, nadal not being the force he was and no young buck ala Rafa in the mid 2000's to seriously threaten Joker for the foreseeable future, it's not entirely out of the question he gets to 15. He's a legend himself.

[dude77]

damn .. someone at cnn is a djokovic fan .. just saw that news ticker they have scrolling at the bottom of the screen .. it said .. "djokovic crushes nadal .. and then in quotes .. the "so called king of clay" had not lost .. " lol

nadal has nothing left to prove anyways .. other than reaching federer's slam count .. he had a ridiculous run at roland garros .. everything comes to an end eventually ..

what did bother me though was that it seemed like nadal checked out in the 3rd set .. looked like he quit .. never seen that happen before ..

djokovic is just a beast right now .. you can't get anything past this guy

[raiderfan19]

Djoker is pretty clearly on peds. But damn is he good. His serve is his only real weakness now that the peds fixed the stamina issues.

[gigantes]

I don't expect him to get 15 titles because 7 titles after your age 28 year is expecting a lot. But this is a period of time where he could rack them up in a hurry. Like five more titles in 8 slams.

With federer on his last leg, nadal not being the force he was and no young buck ala Rafa in the mid 2000's to seriously threaten Joker for the foreseeable future, it's not entirely out of the question he gets to 15. He's a legend himself.
none of them are even close to rod laver's records, so i wouldn't worry about it too much.

rearranging deck chairs on the titanic...

[BurningHammer]

Nobody in a recent future will be able to beat Nadal's streak on clay anyway, so congrats and happy birth day man!

[gigantes]

He was seriously competitive in the first 2 sets, could have gone either way, unlucky draw too, this early.. usually gets better as the tourney goes on.

In the 3rd, down 0-2, lost the next 2 games at 30-40 on a Djokovic netball each time..
no it wasn't.

no it didn't.

no dude... rafa was not close to competitive in that match.

[ArbitraryWater]

no it wasn't.

no it didn't.

no dude... rafa was not close to competitive in that match.

yes he was... how were the first two sets not competitive? 3rd set it got away, 2 lucky netballs had to do with that, but thats where Novak had a clear grip on it.

[Carbine]

Nadal wasn't putting any pressure on jokers service games. Most of them ended at love or 15. Meanwhile Nadal had to dig deep seemingly every service game to win them, until he was broken.

[PejaTheSerbSnip]

You have no idea what you're on about. The French Open is arguably as respected as Wimbledon where as the AO is by far and away the least prestigious of any Grand Slam.


Wimbledon is far and away the most prestigious slam, followed by the USO (by consensus), then the FO and finally Oz.

But no, no slam can really compete with Wimbledon. Any "player poll" can confirm this. Its the tournament most players say they dreamt of winning as kids.

[PejaTheSerbSnip]

yes he was... how were the first two sets not competitive? 3rd set it got away, 2 lucky netballs had to do with that, but thats where Novak had a clear grip on it.
Djokovic was already up a break and had game points for a double break when that netcord happened.

It wasn't really as close as the scoreline would suggest. Djokovic badly outgunned Nadal today. Hit 45 winners to Nadals 16, including a 23-3 edge in forehand winners. Won 59% of the points (generally a dominant number), and broke his serve 7 times. It was a thumping. If not for a couple missed overheads and tight misses in the first, it would have been even worse. It was clear from the get-go that the match was on Djokovic's racquet. Nadal seemed powerless to stop the onslaught.

[PejaTheSerbSnip]

No experienced Tennis fan will ever consider Nadal the GOAT. He lacks both the resume and the consistency.


I don't like Nadal because I think his game is ugly, not because he's some threat to Federer. I have to admit that Nadal has improved parts of his game over the years, especially his serve, which has made him more watchable... but in general, I'm not a fan of pure defensive players who win matches primarily through unforced errors.Nads is an all-time great, but as im sure you know, he should thank his lucky stars for playing in the homogenized era that he does. Slowed down hard courts, slowed down grass, carpet abolished, etc etc. There's a reason why Nadal has gone 10 years without winning an indoor tournament and is 13-11 at the world tour finals -- fast surfaces where imparting spin isn't as important, KILLS Nadals game.

Even with the slowed down courts, his single-surface dominance is both a blessing and a curse; the man is better at clay court tennis than just about anyone is at anything, EVER, but has ALWAYS been a mere mortal on every other surface. I hesitate to call him greater than Federer when Federer is CLEARLY better on 3 surfaces, and Nadal clearly only better on 1.

Look at a comparison of titles won on each surface

all hard courts:

Federer 58-20 in finals, 9 hard court slams
Nadal 18-20, 3 hc slams

Grass:

Federer 14-5, 7 Wimbledons
Nadal 3-3, 2 Wimbledons

Indoors:

Federer 21-12, 6 world tour finals victories
Nadal 1-3, 0 WTFS (other than the majors this is the most prestigious tournament)

Clay:

Federer 11-15, 1 RG
Nadal 46-8, 9 RG's


So, on outdoor HC, indoor hc, grass, and carpet if it was still around, Federer is better by overwhelming margins. Nadal's saving grace is clay. With that said I don't see how its possible that Nadal is greater than Federer, especially since he lags behind in accomplishments despite the fact that Federers style of play is inherently suboptimal in today's slow-as-molasses courts.

Also, the Federer fans that scoffed at the early "by age" comparison (like myself) can maybe start to feel a little vindicated. For the past few years, since Djokovic's emergence, that was what Nadal fans could hang their hat on. Nadal having more slams than Federer at the same age was Nadal fans trump card, failing to acknowledge that Nadal got a leg up on Federer as a teenager and that Feds mid-to-late 20's slam tallies would be hard for Nadal to keep pace with. It was only natural that Nadal would probably fail to keep up in a race reminiscent of the tortoise v the hare.

And what do you know, Nadal is 29 and is stuck at 14 majors. Federer hauled in 16 before he was even halfway past 28. Additionally, he had twice the weeks at number 1, 5 more WTF's and 2 more year-ending number 1's at that age. Tennis is a cruel sport.

Remember, too, that Federer has also aged GRACEFULLY since then -- hes tacked on 20 more titles, a Wimbledon, a World Tour Finals, an Olympic silver, two year-end finishes at number 2 and an extra 15 weeks at number one. And hes STILL not done. And Nadals game is CLEARLY more dependent on athleticism than Federers, an attribute of his which is in a steeper decline than most realize. So, Nadal is now actually well BEHIND in the age-by-age comparison, and looks to be ten-fold worse at 29 than Federer was at 29. Hmm.


Even the head-to-head argument is rearing its ugly head at Nadal fans: Djokovic has utterly DOMINATED him since hes hit his stride in 2011. Its been 18-9 since their Madrid match in May of 2009, and 14-7 since 2011.

11-4 on hardcourts, 1-0 on grass and even 6-5 on clay (though to be fair, hes 1-3 at the French). Mind you, these guys are only a year apart whereas there's a 5 year gap between Federer and Nadal. By the time their careers finish, if Nadal doesn't avoid him, Djokovic will have an absolutely commanding lead in the h2h. But seeing as Rafa seems to be in a state of irrevocable decline, who knows if they'll even meet enough times. All of this makes it silly for anybody to declare him better than Fed when hes behind both in peak play, accomplishments, and longevity. And, of course, all-surface play.


Anyways, damn, i went off on a tangent there lol. I would hope Nadal rebounds from this loss and wins at least 1 more slam. Even as a Fed fan its sad to see him go so meekly.

[aj1987]

Nads is an all-time great, but as im sure you know, he should thank his lucky stars for playing in the homogenized era that he does. Slowed down hard courts, slowed down grass, carpet abolished, etc etc. There's a reason why Nadal has gone 10 years without winning an indoor tournament and is 13-11 at the world tour finals -- fast surfaces where imparting spin isn't as important, KILLS Nadals game.

Even with the slowed down courts, his single-surface dominance is both a blessing and a curse; the man is better at clay court tennis than just about anyone is at anything, EVER, but has ALWAYS been a mere mortal on every other surface. I hesitate to call him greater than Federer when Federer is CLEARLY better on 3 surfaces, and Nadal clearly only better on 1.

Look at a comparison of titles won on each surface

all hard courts:

Federer 58-20 in finals, 9 hard court slams
Nadal 18-20, 3 hc slams

Grass:

Federer 14-5, 7 Wimbledons
Nadal 3-3, 2 Wimbledons

Indoors:

Federer 21-12, 6 world tour finals victories
Nadal 1-3, 0 WTFS (other than the majors this is the most prestigious tournament)

Clay:

Federer 11-15, 1 RG
Nadal 46-8, 9 RG's


So, on outdoor HC, indoor hc, grass, and carpet if it was still around, Federer is better by overwhelming margins. Nadal's saving grace is clay. With that said I don't see how its possible that Nadal is greater than Federer, especially since he lags behind in accomplishments despite the fact that Federers style of play is inherently suboptimal in today's slow-as-molasses courts.

Also, the Federer fans that scoffed at the early "by age" comparison (like myself) can maybe start to feel a little vindicated. For the past few years, since Djokovic's emergence, that was what Nadal fans could hang their hat on. Nadal having more slams than Federer at the same age was Nadal fans trump card, failing to acknowledge that Nadal got a leg up on Federer as a teenager and that Feds mid-to-late 20's slam tallies would be hard for Nadal to keep pace with. It was only natural that Nadal would probably fail to keep up in a race reminiscent of the tortoise v the hare.

And what do you know, Nadal is 29 and is stuck at 14 majors. Federer hauled in 16 before he was even halfway past 28. Additionally, he had twice the weeks at number 1, 5 more WTF's and 2 more world number 1's at that age. Tennis is a cruel sport.

Remember, too, that Federer has also aged GRACEFULLY since then -- hes tacked on 20 more titles, a Wimbledon, a World Tour Finals, an Olympic silver, two year-end finishes at number 2 and an extra 15 weeks at number one. And hes STILL not done. *And Nadals game is CLEARLY more dependent on athleticism than Federers, an attribute of his which is in a steeper decline than most realize. So, Nadal is now actually well BEHIND in the age-by-age comparison, and looks to be ten-fold worse at 29 than Federer was at 29. Hmm.


Even the head-to-head argument is rearing its ugly head at Nadal fans: Djokovic has utterly DOMINATED him since hes hit his stride in 2011. Its been 18-9 since their Madrid match in May of 2009, and 14-7 since 2011.

11-4 on hardcourts, 1-0 on grass and even 6-5 on clay. Mind you, these guys are only a year apart whereas there's a 5 year gap between Federer and Nadal. By the time their careers finish, if Nadal doesn't avoid him, Djokovic will have an absolutely commanding lead in the h2h. But seeing as Rafa seems to be in a state of irrevocable decline, who knows if they'll even meet enough times. All of this makes it silly for anybody to declare him better than Fed when hes behind both in peak play, accomplishments, and longevity. And, of course, all-surface play.


Anyways, damn, i went off on a tangent there lol. I would hope Nadal rebounds from this loss and wins at least 1 more slam. Even as a Fed fan its sad to see him go so meekly.
:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:

[PejaTheSerbSnip]

One more thing: the "Federers era was weak" argument is looking more and more silly by the day. If you have the patience, please read my post :p

For those that think tennis has improved exponentially since 2008....yeeeaahhhh no. If it is, why are there so few new faces that are ascending up the ranks? There are, you say? Well, the average age of a top 100 player is higher now than it has ever been, by an alarming margin. How has tennis improved THAT much since Federers apex when the same faces that were around then are around now? And many of these players are succeeding or dare I say, hitting their stride at ages where it is customary for tennis players to decline and retire. How do you explain that? Berdych is 30 and better than ever. Ferrer seems to have reached his prime at age 31. He was much WORSE from 22-30. Wawrinka is peaking at 29-30. Karlovic is 36 and playing some of his best tennis. The average age of the top 5 in this years points race is 30. It doesn't add up. The most hyped up prospects today, Coric and Kyrgios, dont even have a title to their name yet.

Granted, Nadal, Murray and Djokovic had a meteoric rise to the top since 2008 so that's a thorn in this arguments side. But tennis has not improved by great lengths -- it is simply more top-heavy, while it was DEEPER during Federers era. Its a tradeoff. At best tennis from 2008-present is slightly stronger, purely on the basis of Nadal, Djokovic, and Murray. If you were to compare players 5-100, it would be a different story. Agassi (yes, old man Agassi. Federer is 33 now so I *can* use Agassi), Hewitt who was a Murray-caliber player in his prime and i dare you guys to challenge me on this one, Coria, Gaudio, Roddick who is CLEARLY a rich-mans Raonic (and Raonic reached a top 6 ranking), Nalbandian, Davydenko (6-1 record over Nadal on hardcourts, including 4-0 from 2009-2010, which is during Nadals prime), Gonzalez, Ferrero who is a rich mans Ferrer, Ljubicic Henman, Safin, Blake, are a much better "best of the rest" than any post 2008 non-top 4.

To expand on Hewitt: the man was a monster in his prime, for those too young to know what im talking about. He KILLED Sampras at the US Open final to win his first of two majors, 7-6 6-1 6-1. Here is a list of things he was among the best at on tour: backhand, lobs, return, passing shots, movement. His % of return games won is top 10 in tennis history. He was about as good as Murray is now, and the accomplishments attest to that; same number of slams, less masters titles, BUT, two year end titles and a stint at number 1.

And he is exhibit A in the argument that Federer in his prime MADE players look "weak": 2004-2005 was actually arguably his peak, yet he won his big majors/titles from 2001-2003. We can ascertain that it was his peak by comparing his performance against the rest of the field, barring Federer, in those two time periods. Im not including Federer, of course, because Federers game took a quantum leap in 2004 and he wasn't really around to challenge Hewitt in 01/02. Basically, the man made deep runs at major tournaments on a more consistent basis in 2004/2005, and his winning percentage was at its highest, but get this: every single time he made a deep run at a slam save for a few, Federer foiled him. Almost every single time, it was Federer. That means that Hewitt was pretty much ONLY losing to Federer at majors from 2004-2005. That's how good he was.

2004 Australian Open: makes the fourth round, loses to Federer
2004 Wimbledon: quarterfinals, loses to Federer
2004 US Open: makes the final without dropping a set (either that or only lost one set) and was on a 20+ match win streak, his best ever. Some people pegged him to challenge Fed. Result? Loses 6-0 7-6 6-0. First man to eat a double bagel at the US Open final in over 100 years.
2005 Wimbledon: makes the semis, loses to Federer
2005 US Open, makes the semis, loses to Federer.

Now, keep in mind Federer ALSO faced an early-bloomer Nadal while he was at his peak. People underestimate how daunting a challenge that is because they assume Nadal was green, but Nadals CLAY COURT peak was clearly from 2005-2008 -- of that there can really be no debate. He was MUCH better on grass and hard courts after then, but 2005-2008 was his clay peak. He lost twice in 4 years for Christ sake, and his 2007-08 French Opens were the most dominant two year run at a single slam, ever. He lost one of 43 sets. And this is the guy Federer had to contend with. He was unfortunate to play 60% of their matches in that time period on his worst surface and Nadals best, a surface that makes up only 30% of the tour. From 2004-2007, Federers peak, he was 6-2 vs Nadal on non-clay surfaces. It seems unfair to draw grand conclusions from the head-to-head based on this. We're essentially penalizing Federer for being good enough to make it to the final on his worst surface, a surface that doesn't define his greatness ANYWAY: indeed, if you scratch Federers entire clay court resume, hes still a GOAT candidate. So why is him getting shellacked on a surface where he made the least of his bones *that* important?

Additionally, he *did* have to deal with a young Djokovic and Murray, like it or not. They were green but they were still threats, and from 2007-2010 (Djokovic became an elite player in 2007, remember) his slam h2h against them was 7-1, his overall h2h against Djokovic was 13-5, and, even at his advanced age, is laying a can of whoop ass on Murray whenever they play now. Even with Djokovic's rise and Federers fall, he STILL leads the h2h 20-19...comparable to Nadal leading Djokovic 23-21, only Djokovic and Nadal are CONTEMPORARIES while Djokovic is 6 years younger than Federer.

Lastly, the guy who was destined to be the "fifth horseman", Del Potro, is a part of Nadals era yet a past-prime Federer has destroyed him so many times en route to big titles. This man is now marred by injuries and can't even finish a match. Soderling, who was a constant pest and better than Berdych/Tsonga/any other big hitter today, was 1-16 against Federer, but hasn't played in 4 years due to a debilitating case of mono.

Really, without spewing out platitudes, or poking fun at how long my post is, can anybody REALLY say, with all the points I've made, that this era is as strong as its cracked out to be?

From a socioeconomic standpoint, it SIMPLY DOESNT MAKE SENSE THAT IT IS. why? Because the gap in wealth between the top 5 and the rest is higher in tennis than in any other major sport, I'd reckon. If you're not top 200 in the world, you can barely break even financially. How INSANE is that? A top 2000 soccer/basketball/cricket player in the world is set for life, let alone top 200. A top 200 basketball player in the world is fighting for a spot in an NBA starting line-up and soaking in Jacuzzis and drinking Grey goose in the off season.

Now, this is important because since there is such a disparity in tournament prize money and sponsorship money, that means that lesser players in tennis (or even borderline top 20-30 players) simply CANNOT afford the training methods/physios/doctors that the top players can. This means they DONT have the luxury to, say, blow almost 100k on a hyperbaric chamber meant to improve your endurance -- AHEM, *Djokovic and Murray*.

This is particularly damning in THIS epoch, because tennis is BY FAR a more physical sport now than it has ever been. The slower the courts = the longer the rallies, the more endurance and athleticism plays a part. Less of a premium is put on skill, and more on defense and grinding. So that aforementioned gap in wealth, which is bigger than ever mind you, is more crucial in the present day than ever. No teenager has won a slam since 2005. And the top 4, at one point, won 38 of 39 slams, in a period spanning almost 10 years. Is that parity? Is that depth? If Federer dominated a weak era, so be it. But the era that followed it doesn't seem to be much stronger. Tennis is extraordinarily lucky that once-in-a-generation talents like Djokovic, Nadal and Murray (okay, MAYBE Murray doesn't belong there :p) came along, because they masked how thin the remaining crop of talent was becoming post-2006/7.


Bear with me here guys, im doing my best not to sound like the 3ball of tennis fans, LOL. In my defense, I can't say Federer has a stranglehold on the GOAT argument -- I'd say Laver is probably the most accomplished player in the history of the game. Him and Fed to me are co-GOATs, and Gonzales, Rosewall, Sampras, Nadal, Borg, Lendl, Djokovic, Connors, Agassi, Kramer and others round out the top 11-12, w/the first 5 or 6 belonging in their own tier.

It merely bothers me when people lazily crap on Federers competition -- no, its a lot more nuanced than you think.

[ArbitraryWater]

I'm tempted between Djokovic & Federer.. Rafa is GOAT, but who's next?

[imdaman99]

I'm tempted between Djokovic & Federer.. Rafa is GOAT, but who's next?
I'd have to go with Djokovic. At lease he stood up to his rivals. And he is doing a number on them right now.

Fed dominated Nalbandanians and Roddicks and baby Djokos and baby Murrays. It's impressive, but baby Nadal took him to school.

[dunksby]

Sampras, Becker, Roger, Nadal and Novak are the greatest among those I have watched.

[ArbitraryWater]

I'd have to go with Djokovic. At lease he stood up to his rivals. And he is doing a number on them right now.

Fed dominated Nalbandanians and Roddicks and baby Djokos and baby Murrays. It's impressive, but baby Nadal took him to school.

this is probably what I would go with, too...

I mean, if it weren't for Rafa's sickness he wins the 2014 AO, Roger has been healthy his entire career, Rafa has been the opposite, many injuries, missed majors, taking months off.. yet he's pretty much matched him in the Slam count, against stronger competition, while owning him H2H (right from when he came on the scene)... pretty easy argument.

[ArbitraryWater]

This man went to 5 straight Wimbledon finals from 2006-2011 and almost snapped one off of peak Roger as a 21 year old... couldn't lose in closer fashion and an unluckier finals injury than he did at the 2012 AO final and 2014 AO final.
These are valid points, losing in the longest GS Final ever. Would have given him a combined 5 HC slams, while being the Clay GOAT (No one is nearly as good on any surface as he is on Clay. Nearly unbeatable, injured in 2009).
He's dominated every court.

[PejaTheSerbSnip]

this is probably what I would go with, too...

I mean, if it weren't for Rafa's sickness he wins the 2014 AO, Roger has been healthy his entire career, Rafa has been the opposite, many injuries, missed majors, taking months off.. yet he's pretty much matched him in the Slam count, against stronger competition, while owning him H2H (right from when he came on the scene)... pretty easy argument.

Yeah, I addressed all that

There's no way nadal can be the GOAT. hes never been world number one for consecutive years. He hasn't "matched" Federer in slam count -- he has 3 less slams, ajd HALF the weeks at number one. Also, the most important tournament outside of the 4 majors is the year end tournament -- Federer has won that 6 times, Nadal zero.

Even when you compare them at age 29 -- Federer wins.

As far as the injury thing is concerned: remember that his injuries are a byproduct of his playing style. He HATES hard courts because his style of play is not conducive to them. When was the last time you saw him languishing on clay, injured? It doesn’t happen, because the soft clay surface helps mitigate the effects of his grinding style. Hell, Nadal has actually suggested that we get rid of ALL hard courts; a little self-serving, no? Oh well. At least its not as bad as his uncle Toni saying it would be better if tennis players were only allowed one serve and the height of the net was raised. Yes, he did say that. You can’t make this stuff up lol. Mind you…..Nadal has the highest net clearance on his shots and his first serve percentage is usually in the high 60’s (which is very good). So….yeah.

Anyways, Nadal isn't nearly as unlucky as hes made out to be. I mean, okay, cool, let's totally ignore that his injuries are caused by the way he plays....the same playing style that netted him 14 slams. Consider this: there are no more fast courts. Carpet has been abolished. Wimbledon, the US Open AND the Aussie Open have been slowed down. Strings and racquet tech have enabled defensive-minded players to get more oomph on the ball even when they're on their back foot, and it has rendered serve-and-volley tennis obsolete.

Indoors, while slower than most OUTDOOR tournaments from the 90's, are the last bastion of fast surfaces. And how does nadal fare there? He literally has not won a tournament indoors in a decade, and is 13-11 at the year end championships. The ONE indoor tournament he has EVER won, was in 2005, in a 5 set thriller.

Moreover, hes inferior to Federer on grass, outdoor hard courts, indoor hard courts and carpet. I'm sure that you or even the biggest Nadal fan ever would not dispute this.

Other than single-surface dominance and h2h (which again, I've gone in depth on in this thread), Nadal has no leg to stand on. Hes never dominated tennis for a prolonged period of time. Hes 7th all-time in weeks at number 1, and has LESS than half the amount of weeks Federer does. He wasn't the best player of the 2000's, without question. And he hasn't been the best player of the 2010's. His three years finishing world number 1: 2008, 2010, 2013.

And while hes the indisputed clay court GOAT, hes not even top 10 on grass, borderline top 10 on hard courts, and isn't even top 70-80 indoors (no seriously. One tournament victory indoors his entire career).

The CV just isn't as complete as Federers. The funny thing is, the same criteria you use for Nadal could come back to haunt you for Djokovic. Because remember -- Nadal is 3 slams behind Fed yet you say he has "pretty much matched" him.


So.....say Djokovic gets to 11 slams while Nadal remains at 14. Not entirely undoable. Check out the rest of their accomplishments:

Masters series
Nadal 27
Djokovic 25

Year end titles
Djokovic 4
Nadal 0

Head-to-head
Nadal 23-21 (but Djokovic is 18-9 in their last 27 and 6-1 in their last 7)

Prize money
Can't remember, but Djokovic has actually earned a couple mil more

Weeks at number 1
Djokovic 152....and counting
Nadal 141

Year end number 1's
Djokovic 3, will be 4 this year
Nadal 3

Peak play
Djokovic's 2011 trumps any year Nadal has ever had.

Sustained dominance
Djokovic is about to finish 1st for the fourth time in the last 5 years, Nadal has never finished first in consecutive years.


So, be careful with your criteria hehe


In any case, there's a clear hierarchy.

Federer
Nadal
Djokovic

[ArbitraryWater]

Yes you've made some great posts... right now I'd just like to say I would like to see Rafa with a new coach, part ways with Uncle Toni.

Needs a change. Uncle Toni probably has somewhat of a verbally abusive style, its probably helped in the past, making Rafa push harder. Not sure it is right now.

Everyone could use a change after working so long with someone and the well goes dry (that how you say it?)... especially someone you're so close with anyway.

[PejaTheSerbSnip]

This man went to 5 straight Wimbledon finals from 2006-2011 and almost snapped one off of peak Roger as a 21 year old... couldn't lose in closer fashion and an unluckier finals injury than he did at the 2012 AO final and 2014 AO final.
These are valid points, losing in the longest GS Final ever. Would have given him a combined 5 HC slams, while being the Clay GOAT (No one is nearly as good on any surface as he is on Clay. Nearly unbeatable, injured in 2009).
He's dominated every court.

All sorts of hypotheticals both hurt and harm Nadal.

Hes been injured a lot, yes. But slow courts and homogenized conditions have hugely benefits his game. So its not a one-way street.

Making a point about him losing close matches is a tad strange with all due respect -- Nadal is one of the greatest close-match players of all time. His 5th set record is phenomenal. He can't win EVERY close match.

If we use THAT sort of hypothetical for Federer, he instantly becomes a demigod. Because nobody in the open era has LOST more close matches in majors. His 5th set record is actually mediocre, and he squandered match points against Djokovic twice. His combined 5th set record in semis and finals in slams isnt that great.

So again, you can't quite have it both ways. Remember that, while not having to battle through injury as much as Nadal (and to reiterate, Nadals injuries ARE and have ALWAYS BEEN a byproduct of the same playing style that has given him so much success), Federer has also had ENTIRE YEARS marred by injury and illness. In 2013 he was pretty much hampered by the back all year.

Another "devils advocate" argument is that Federers playing style is the complete opposite of Nadals: hes an attacking player in an era of slow courts, poly strings and grinders. Yet he has still accomplished much more than Nadal.

In the end, the luck factor evens out. Federer is more accomplished, had the better peak and looks to have better longevity, as thus far Federer at 29 blows Nadal at 29 out of the water.

But, to each their own I suppose.

[PejaTheSerbSnip]

Yes you've made some great posts... right now I'd just like to say I would like to see Rafa with a new coach, part ways with Uncle Toni.

Needs a change. Uncle Toni probably has somewhat of a verbally abusive style, its probably helped in the past, making Rafa push harder. Not sure it is right now.

Everyone could use a change after working so long with someone and the well goes dry (that how you say it?)... especially someone you're so close with anyway.


Yeah, I agree. Rafa is fiercly loyal and its hurting him here. As he ages he'll continue to lose footspeed and will have to adapt and play closer to the baseline. Maybe try to channel that "summer 2010" serve and crush I/o forehands earlier in rallies.

Btw apologies if i have seemed a bit abrasive, its just that its a topic that I've spent many years arguing :p :cheers: commiserations for yesterdays loss, I hope Nadal can win one more French.

[ArbitraryWater]

no problem, us Tennis fans all cool :cheers:

I've never quite gotten over the 2012 AO loss to Djokovic, tbh.. when in 2011 he beat him twice at his peak, it just felt like a takeover, was worried if he would ever beat the Djokovic from 2011.

I'm not really sure how much of the court pace is truly noteworthy... when&how much have the courts changed, anyway? AO in 2008 when they went from green to blue surface?

The injuries are somewhat a product of his style, but they're still injuries, therefore unlucky imo. I haven't seen a healthy Rafa get beat much at a Slam since 2008, tbh... it comes off as excuses, but he's been really damn hard to beat on ANY court, when healthy. Just too hard to play... monster topspin, fastest ATG probably ever. Like a playstation, he returned everything at his best. Djokovic fares better than Federer against Rafa... it got to the point where you figured even the mental aspect hurt Roger. He was favored going into their 2012 AO match.

[ArbitraryWater]

Oh btw, this will probably be Rafa's first year ever without a Major

[raiderfan19]

The biggest difference with nole instead of fed versus rafa is noles 2 handed back hand.

[raiderfan19]

To be clear, Feds 2004-2007 dominance is just absurd. In 2006 he was 92-5 and only lost to nadal and Murray. 4 times to nadal on clay and once to Murray at Cincinnati. In total he was 315-23 over that span with 247-15 in 04-06 while winning 11 out of 16 slams. And not losing at a slam to anyone other than nadal at the French and safin who was an insane talent on a really good day at the AO.

While nadal fans love to tout injuries, they forget that fed was sick/injured in 08 when nadal won Wimbledon over "prime" fed.

Also as far as the "competition" argument, fed has won as many non French slams since 08 as nadal has. Fed was clearly a better player.

[PejaTheSerbSnip]

no problem, us Tennis fans all cool :cheers:

I've never quite gotten over the 2012 AO loss to Djokovic, tbh.. when in 2011 he beat him twice at his peak, it just felt like a takeover, was worried if he would ever beat the Djokovic from 2011.

I'm not really sure how much of the court pace is truly noteworthy... when&how much have the courts changed, anyway? AO in 2008 when they went from green to blue surface?

The injuries are somewhat a product of his style, but they're still injuries, therefore unlucky imo. I haven't seen a healthy Rafa get beat much at a Slam since 2008, tbh... it comes off as excuses, but he's been really damn hard to beat on ANY court, when healthy. Just too hard to play... monster topspin, fastest ATG probably ever. Like a playstation, he returned everything at his best. Djokovic fares better than Federer against Rafa... it got to the point where you figured even the mental aspect hurt Roger. He was favored going into their 2012 AO match.

Good question. Its a little murky at times, but what we do know is:

They changed the grass at Wimbledon from 2001 to 2002, when they started using rye. As a result, the surface slowed down considerably. That year, two pure baseliners made the final of Wimbledon for the first time in forever. Baseliners making a deep run at Wimbledon was considered anomalous back in the day. And Hewitt/Nalbandian, they were pretty much the epitome of the modern day baseliner. Their forrays to the net were few and far between. I think that year, there were only a handful of serve-and-volley points in the final. Unprecedented. The year prior, two pure serve and volleyers had made the final, as was the norm.

Anyways, they've tweaked with the surface plenty since then. Some years its faster than others, but basically, it has never been as fast as it was pre-2001. The bounce is a lot "truer", too, which means that its more predictable and thus better for a player glued to the baseline, since weird bounces won't be an issue.

Sadly enough, despite it being slowed down, Wimbledon is still one of the fastest courts on tour. The slowing of the surfaces became an epidemic. They slowed the US Open down in the mid 2000s, got rid of carpet which I had touched on before, in '08. Replaced rebound ace, which was a mid-paced hard court and kind of sticky, with the slow plexicushion they now use. Even the world tour finals are a bit slower now.

If I had to summarize it, I would say that 90% of hard courts and grass courts play the same way these days. They're all slooooooowwww. Which sucks because as a long time tennis fan, I'm used to players having to make seismic adjustments from slam to slam. Look at Borg. When he won the Channel Slam, ala the French and Wimbledon double, he would win it by playing from the baseline at the French and playing an all-court game at Wimbledon. That made it 10x more interesting as a fan. You're supposed to be adaptable, you're supposed to master all facets of the game if you want to dominate.

And now here's my admittedly biased Federer/Nadal angle: on a "level playing field", where there is TRUE surface/condition variety (which is how it had been for most of the open era) its clear, at least to me, that the gap between Federer and Nadal would be even wider. Nadals relative ineptitude on indoor courts, courts that would only be about as fast as most 80's-90's OUTDOOR courts, tells me all I need to know. His rudimentary net game, which wouldn't fly on the old Wimbledon grass, tells me more still. Nadal is a transcendent player but I can't help but think he was very very lucky to have played in an era where the scales are so tipped in his favour.

[PejaTheSerbSnip]

Analyzing their games it would be easy to surmise that Federer is more likely to be an all-timer on any surface and any condition. In the early 2000's he would serve and volley on grass....hell, he beat SAMPRAS at Wimbledon serving and volleying, at the age of 19. Two years later, on the slower grass, he won Wimbledon serving and volleying on about 52% of his serves. Then he started winning Wimbledon from the baseline, with some all-court play thrown in. That's badass to me. He could serve you off the court, beat you from the baseline and at the net. Nadal has a wicked lefty serve, but by no means has his serve ever been elite, ditto for his net game. His baseline acumen is what's kept him afloat his whole career. Now that hes slowing down, his lack of a plan B is starting to get exposed. All of this leads me to the conclusion that a Nadal on ANYTHING BUT 2000's playing surfaces, would get demoted from top 5 to top 10-15 all time. Of course, by virtue of being such an amazing clay court player his status as an ATG would never be called into question.*

But, at the end of the day much of what I am saying is just speculation, I concede that.

[plowking]

Does anyone actually enjoy the women's game currently? An old ass Serena is still dominating and everyone else sucks... Gonna be even worse when she retires.

[bdreason]

Does anyone actually enjoy the women's game currently? An old ass Serena is still dominating and everyone else sucks... Gonna be even worse when she retires.


The game will be better when she retires. She makes the other women on tour look like amateurs.

[dunksby]

Does anyone actually enjoy the women's game currently? An old ass Serena is still dominating and everyone else sucks... Gonna be even worse when she retires.
The only female tennis player I can sit through to watch a full game, the rest of them are like kids playing tennis.

[Carbine]

To be clear, Feds 2004-2007 dominance is just absurd. In 2006 he was 92-5 and only lost to nadal and Murray. 4 times to nadal on clay and once to Murray at Cincinnati. In total he was 315-23 over that span with 247-15 in 04-06 while winning 11 out of 16 slams. And not losing at a slam to anyone other than nadal at the French and safin who was an insane talent on a really good day at the AO.

While nadal fans love to tout injuries, they forget that fed was sick/injured in 08 when nadal won Wimbledon over "prime" fed.

Also as far as the "competition" argument, fed has won as many non French slams since 08 as nadal has. Fed was clearly a better player.

2004-2007 was not the absolute bloodbath it was from 2008-2012 with the rise of Nadal and Joker and Murray.

Fed was fairly lucky to play Hewitt, Safin, Gonzalez, Bhagdatis, Roddick and Agasi a bunch of times in finals during that run. Thats a far cry from Jokers run from 2011 to current where he has played Rafa, Fed or Murray in all slam finals. And had to usually beat one of them in the Semis. Same with Nadal from 08 to 13. He had to compete for titles against that trio and still won 10 titles.

Fed still the GOAT

[ArbitraryWater]

2004-2007 was not the absolute bloodbath it was from 2008-2012 with the rise of Nadal and Joker and Murray.

Fed was fairly lucky to play Hewitt, Safin, Gonzalez, Bhagdatis, Roddick and Agasi a bunch of times in finals during that run. Thats a far cry from Jokers run from 2011 to current where he has played Rafa, Fed or Murray in all slam finals. And had to usually beat one of them in the Semis. Same with Nadal from 08 to 13. He had to compete for titles against that trio and still won 10 titles.

Fed still the GOAT

yeah I agree, definitely wasn't the same comp, but Fed seriously won just about every Grand Slam for 4 straight years except the French :lol

In domination, also... so he beat who he could beat, and stayed healthy the entire time.

Peja's posts, some of the points made are legit, made me think, not necessarily changing my view on Rafa, I still think he's the GOAT, but I do respect Roger more... great GOAT argument, too.. (I know, duh, but srsly, I never really thought his GOAT title would be deserving, but he did what he did, dominated hard courts and the fast surfaces, and also, he's aged so well... I saw this man nearly knock off a peak Djokovic at the 2011 US Open, and beat him at the 2011 French... 2011 Federer > 2010 Federer.)

[plowking]

Pretty embarrassing turnout for a men's semifinal where the 2 best players are playing. Looks closer to empty than full in all honesty.

French Open is a joke, and has been for a while now. Promote something else as a major.

[ArbitraryWater]

good start to this match.. hope y'all watching

hopefully crowd fills up soon, too

anyway, French crowd/people are a joke, rudest crowd ever.. too many bullshit instances.. pricks.

[RagaZ]

Pretty embarrassing turnout for a men's semifinal where the 2 best players are playing. Looks closer to empty than full in all honesty.

French Open is a joke, and has been for a while now. Promote something else as a major.
No it's never empty at the US Open amirite?

And let's not act like Wimbledon isnt full of Tories as well.

Tennis is a upper-class sport, always has been.

[dunksby]

Novak playing GOAT like tennis :applause:

[plowking]

Novak playing GOAT like tennis :applause:

Murray is playing well, just not capitalizing on his first serve. Dude is pushing the ball too much out there.

[Andrei89]

But, seriously, why do people bring up Nadal's injuries?

The only reason Nadal had so many injuries is because of his style of play. Obviously he could not change his style of play to be less demanding on his body and , because of that, I would not put Nadal over Federer.

Prime Federer is one of the best technical players I have seen. Nadal solely relied on his athleticism to run left and right faster than anybody else. If Nadal had better technique , better forehand, better backhand, better serves than Federer he would not be inured all the time.

[ArbitraryWater]

Murray!!! 2 pretty damn good points in a row there... turnaround

[NBAplayoffs2001]

But, seriously, why do people bring up Nadal's injuries?

The only reason Nadal had so many injuries is because of his style of play. Obviously he could not change his style of play to be less demanding on his body and , because of that, I would not put Nadal over Federer.

Prime Federer is one of the best technical players I have seen. Nadal solely relied on his athleticism to run left and right faster than anybody else. If Nadal had better technique , better forehand, better backhand, better serves than Federer he would not be inured all the time.

I still remember when he exploded on the scene. He went from being an all out offensive player in 2004 to being a ridiculously talented defensive player with great power shots from 2005 and onwards :eek:. Crazy to think even Baby Nadal beat Federer in his first year of his prime in the 2004 Miami tournament.

Back then Nadal was considered up there with big hitters too. Him, Safin (the amount of power he often got off his backhand were crazy), Roddick (really only on his forehand had ton of power and loads of spin and his record breaking serving mph), Johannson (serving maestro), and Gonzalez (cannon forehand but not a great player at this point) used to hit really hard.

I remember the 4 best players being
1. Federer
2. Hewitt (yes Roddick was #2, I'm a huge Roddick fan but Hewitt was the real #2 by the end of the year)
3. Roddick (almost beat Federer at the Wimbledon that year)
4. Safin (dude was always an enigma, he could have been one of the greatest ever if it wasn't for injuries and his poor attitude)

After 2004, all their careers change for better or worst. Roddick was still relevant for 10 years, Hewitt had a great 2005 then fell off the map. Safin fell of the map after 2005 as well but reappeared a few times in 2007. He flamed out more quickly than Hewitt.

I remember thinking out of all the 4 players, Roddick will eventually become less efficient because of his style of play. The other three players were more talented than him in terms of tennis but Roddick's "weapons" often outweighed his glaring weaknesses such as a weak backhand and poor conditioning. I remember watching him get very lazy during the clay season lol and then upping his level of play for the remaining half of the year.

To me, tennis never really got boring but if you are like me and just follow it occasionally, it's very hard to keep track of certain players if you don't follow tennis religiously.

[NBAplayoffs2001]

What are y'all favorite Grand Slam?

For me I rank it in the following order:
1. Wimbledon
2. US Open
3. Australian Open
4. French Open

Oddly enough, in real life I love playing on clay but I don't like watching people playing on it.

Hard courts can be brutal especially if you fall while playing or dealing with a hard hitter or someone who knows how to put ton of top spin on their shots.

I have been to the US Open numerous times. In every match I've been to, there's always a group of very very obnoxious supporters for usually the higher ranked player. I remember watching a Del Potro match a few years ago against some player I never heard of and some guy kept going off every time Del Potro had a big point.

[bdreason]

Nice effort for Murray to take a set. I think Djoker about to close it out though.


Wawrinka was just on another level of ball-striking compared to Tsonga. I don't think his movement will be good enough to deal with Djoker though.

[bdreason]

French is, by far, my least favorite. I don't think most of the players like it either, as I always hear complaints about the tournament. The Australian used to be the 4th wheel, but with modern travel, all the top players now attend.


Wimbledon
U.S. Open
Aussie Open
French Open


My guess is that's how most fans and players would rank it.

[bdreason]

I maybe spoke to soon. Murray with 8 points in a row.

[NBAplayoffs2001]

French is, by far, my least favorite. I don't think most of the players like it either, as I always hear complaints about the tournament. The Australian used to be the 4th wheel, but with modern travel, all the top players now attend.


Wimbledon
U.S. Open
Aussie Open
French Open


My guess is that's how most fans and players would rank it.

After the AUS Open tournament in 2005, it easily overtook French Open for me.

By far one of the most intense tournaments I have ever seen.
So many good matches.
Agassi vs. Johansson
Roddick vs. Hewitt
Federer vs. Safin - this was a legendary match to me.

[ArbitraryWater]

Wimbledon/AO/US
French

[RagaZ]

Lol, the winner of this game will play 3 days in a row?

[dunksby]

Meh.

[PejaTheSerbSnip]

yeah I agree, definitely wasn't the same comp, but Fed seriously won just about every Grand Slam for 4 straight years except the French :lol

In domination, also... so he beat who he could beat, and stayed healthy the entire time.

Peja's posts, some of the points made are legit, made me think, not necessarily changing my view on Rafa, I still think he's the GOAT, but I do respect Roger more... great GOAT argument, too.. (I know, duh, but srsly, I never really thought his GOAT title would be deserving, but he did what he did, dominated hard courts and the fast surfaces, and also, he's aged so well... I saw this man nearly knock off a peak Djokovic at the 2011 US Open, and beat him at the 2011 French... 2011 Federer > 2010 Federer.)


Thanks for the props + keeping the open mind! :cheers: :applause:

Federer/Nadal fans are a stubborn bunch so that's pretty rare. Regardless of who's better, both are credits to the game and probably the two most beloved players of all time, along with Agassi who I would say is a close third.

[NBAplayoffs2001]

Thanks for the props + keeping the open mind! :cheers: :applause:

Federer/Nadal fans are a stubborn bunch so that's pretty rare. Regardless of who's better, both are credits to the game and probably the two most beloved players of all time, along with Agassi who I would say is a close third.

Where do you rank Sampras?

Agassi's longevity is stuff of legends.

Old man Agassi toyed with Roddick this whole match in 2004 during Roddick's peak years.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vmo7P9Dtqyw

I used to watch a lot of Roddick matches live or on TV from about 2000-2004. I vividly remember watching this late at night when I was a kid.

I used to use his racket in my late teens. His original one from 2003-2004, the Team Plus or whatever. Thing was like a rocket launcher.

[Sarcastic]

French is >>>>> Aussie Open. AO is by far least important Major to win.

[enayes]

Lol, the winner of this game will play 3 days in a row?

it's not ideal, but even if it goes to a 5th set tomorrow, both players should be rested for Sunday

[ArbitraryWater]

Thanks for the props + keeping the open mind! :cheers: :applause:

Federer/Nadal fans are a stubborn bunch so that's pretty rare. Regardless of who's better, both are credits to the game and probably the two most beloved players of all time, along with Agassi who I would say is a close third.

:cheers:

--

5th set wow.... Djokovic should have closed this in the 3rd, was up 40-15 at one point on Murray serve, at 3-4 I believe..

[dunksby]

Nice 5th set close out :cheers:

[imdaman99]

Time for Stan to validate his 2014 Australian Open and put up a good fight against Djokovic in the Final.

Also, Serena wins another slam. Big surprise there. She is too damn dominant.

[dude77]

Serena earned the hell out of this tournament .. 3 straight 3 set come from behind wins .. 2 against sloane and azarenka who really pushed her to the brink but as usual she just turned it up into another gear and took both matches ..

then bacsinszky goes up 6-4 3-2 on her and then I don't know wtf happened and bacsinsky just disappeared and lost 10 games in a row .. and now she does it again in the final .. she could've easily lost it down 2-0 in the 3rd after completely blowing the 2nd set but nope .. like clockwork she ripped off 6 games in a row to win it .. amazing mental toughness .. coupled with the mental midgets she plays and she's cruising ..

but I have to say women's tennis is a bit of a joke if not for the cute chicks and nice bodies .. there's no way a near 34 yr old should be winning like that in tennis .. that shit would never happen on the men's side .. look at federer .. arguably goat, same age and he can't win anything .. men's tennis is on a whole other level of play

[ArbitraryWater]

Serena earned the hell out of this tournament .. 3 straight 3 set come from behind wins .. 2 against sloane and azarenka who really pushed her to the brink but as usual she just turned it up into another gear and took both matches ..

then bacsinszky goes up 6-4 3-2 on her and then I don't know wtf happened and bacsinsky just disappeared and lost 10 games in a row .. and now she does it again in the final .. she could've easily lost it down 2-0 in the 3rd after completely blowing the 2nd set but nope .. like clockwork she ripped off 6 games in a row to win it .. amazing mental toughness .. coupled with the mental midgets she plays and she's cruising ..

but I have to say women's tennis is a bit of a joke if not for the cute chicks and nice bodies .. there's no way a near 34 yr old should be winning like that in tennis .. that shit would never happen on the men's side .. look at federer .. arguably goat, same age and he can't win anything .. men's tennis is on a whole other level of play

:oldlol:

[NBAplayoffs2001]

Women's tennis lost a lot of it's steam in the early 2000s. Mareusmo and Hingis were still relevant. Those two were arguably better than Sharapova. On a talent level, I remember these two being fun to watch. Neither was really cute lol but both had talent.

[Andrei89]

Are you guys ready fro Djoko's 9th grand slam?:bowdown: :bowdown:

[ArbitraryWater]

amazing how many break opportunities Stan lets slide.. this 2nd set should be his (so far).

[ArbitraryWater]

my dude Stan had a breakball on every game this set :oldlol: and could finally capitalize when it was a setball at 5-4..

French crowd is unbereable, every time a player lets out some emotions and nerves they boo...

[dunksby]

Are you guys ready fro Djoko's 9th grand slam?:bowdown: :bowdown:

I am, but is he too? Novak will fight to the end though, if it's going to five sets, Djokovic has a bigger chance.

[RagaZ]

Is it just me or does Wawrinka always play Djokovic well?

[Mr Clutch Melo]

Stannimal:bowdown:

[plowking]

I am, but is he too? Novak will fight to the end though, if it's going to five sets, Djokovic has a bigger chance.

Not a chance Djoker wins this. Dude is getting absolutely bossed on the baseline rallies. Looks terrible. He is barely hanging on as it is. Not sure how he got a break in the 4th this early, but he'll lose it.

[ArbitraryWater]

Wawrinka dominated these last 2 sets.. typical Djokovic, how many more winnable slam finals he wanna lose?

Put 5$ on Wawrinka.. just 30$ win but still nice.. shoulda put 10 on him. Djokovic not playing that bad, but Wawrinka is pretty dominating.

[plowking]

Didn't take a game after my post for what I said to come true. Djoker dominated again in the long rallies, and Stan gets his break back.

He'll most likely get broke again, and that'll be that.

[Mr Clutch Melo]

Djokos backhand has been terrible all game

[plowking]

It is thoroughly enjoying watching Djoker get dominated simply because he is playing like a p*ssy. He has taken so many lazy shots this game.

He was lucky he won the first set since Stan has been better all game. Should have been straight sets since his performances deserves the embarrassment.

[ArbitraryWater]

Legendary Tennis

[alenleomessi]

why was wawrinka a nobody in his early-mid 20s? how does a tennis player peak at 30?

[dunksby]

It is thoroughly enjoying watching Djoker get dominated simply because he is playing like a p*ssy. He has taken so many lazy shots this game.

He was lucky he won the first set since Stan has been better all game. Should have been straight sets since his performances deserves the embarrassment.
lol STFU, Novak is tired and had to beat better opponents while Wawrinka went through scrubs and old men.

[plowking]

lol STFU, Novak is tired and had to beat better opponents while Wawrinka went through scrubs and old men.

I'm a huge Djoker fan man. I hate it when he plays like this.

Hopefully holding on to his serve pumped him up a bit. 0-30 now on Stan's serve.

[plowking]

Stan wins 5 points in a row after being down 0-40... Dude deserves to win.

[enayes]

why was wawrinka a nobody in his early-mid 20s? how does a tennis player peak at 30?

he's always been streaky, some may say his mental game has improved lately

[ArbitraryWater]

Stan is going crazy :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[Mr Clutch Melo]

Why does Djoko allow Stannis to get so much time to follow through his shots:facepalm

[dude77]

damn .. that down the line winner for the break must've been like a punch to gut for djoker .. this might be over

[dude77]

oh snap .. bad blunder by stan there

[plowking]

Stan was better all match.

Terrible crowd, terrible seeding, terrible schedule by the French Open once again.

When are they going to scrap this one as a major? Probably everyones least favourite tournament.

[ArbitraryWater]

Stan was better all match.

Terrible crowd, terrible seeding, terrible schedule by the French Open once again.

When are they going to scrap this one as a major? Probably everyones least favourite tournament.

Crowd is god awful... don't get the other 2 though.

Anyways, Stannn da man :bowdown: :applause:

[enayes]

Djoker very gracious in defeat :applause:

Awesome match by Stan :D

[Andrei89]

:( :(

[Milbuck]

Just lol at Djokovic. One of the most laughably unpredictable GS final players ever.

It's looking more and more like he might never win one. Let's hope he doesn't fall off a cliff by this time next year like Rafa has.

[ArbitraryWater]

see Djokovic lose another slam final like

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/6-07-2015/Hs5i_6.gif

[dude77]

how disappointed djokovic must be feeling right now .. he was the clear favorite .. playing on top of his game .. slayed the dragon finally(nadal) .. then gets upset by the 8th seed in the final .. a wtf moment .. but stan is no slouch either .. he can play with anyone .. they're saying he might've be thrown off a bit by having to come back and play yesterday .. but ultimately that's bullshit .. he's the top dog .. no excuses

[alenleomessi]

see Djokovic lose another slam final like

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/6-07-2015/Hs5i_6.gif
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=378510

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/6-07-2015/Hs5i_6.gif

[InfiniteBaskets]

how disappointed djokovic must be feeling right now .. he was the clear favorite .. playing on top of his game .. slayed the dragon finally(nadal) .. then gets upset by the 8th seed in the final .. a wtf moment .. but stan is no slouch either .. he can play with anyone .. they're saying he might've be thrown off a bit by having to come back and play yesterday .. but ultimately that's bullshit .. he's the top dog .. no excuses

Djokavic is only 28, Nadal is a year older but has been injury riddled these past few years. There's really no one to challenge Djokavic and this was a perfect time for him to really cement his title as the new tennis king.

[dude77]

Djokavic is only 28, Nadal is a year older but has been injury riddled these past few years. There's really no one to challenge Djokavic and this was a perfect time for him to really cement his title as the new tennis king.

yep he blew it .. but I'm not going to discredit wawrinka .. he's a badass in his own right and took it right at djokovic .. you could even say he dominated him .. 60-30 winners and thats with 45 ues .. if he cuts down even a fraction of that, it wouldn't have been close after the first set ..

after the first set(I started watching at the end of it) .. wawrinka pretty much was in control .. he was always digging into djokovic's serve and threatening to break while getting strong holds on his own serve ..

too bad he couldn't put it all together at a younger age .. probably would have 7-8 titles by now .. this is a pretty legit finals win for him .. taking out a prime world #1

[enayes]

see Djokovic lose another slam final like

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/6-07-2015/Hs5i_6.gif

:oldlol:

what is that from?

[ArbitraryWater]

:oldlol:

what is that from?

oh you dont know that yet?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJV-mF6chSg

shortened version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94xyOpETYYs

hilarious :oldlol:

[Milbuck]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBmhBvpOI30

http://i.imgur.com/6gjKyMb.gif

[bdreason]

When Wawrinka's feeling it, he can beat anyone in the World. He's been playing pretty bad all year though, so I would have never picked him to win this tourney. Hitting that many winners past Djoker, on clay? Not an easy task. His backhand must have been on fire today.

[ArbitraryWater]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBmhBvpOI30

http://i.imgur.com/6gjKyMb.gif

Is there some replays in that or is that 2.37 straight minutes of applause :biggums:

[BigBoss]

see Djokovic lose another slam final like

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/6-07-2015/Hs5i_6.gif

Federer is GOAT

[gigantes]

Stan was better all match.

Terrible crowd, terrible seeding, terrible schedule by the French Open once again.

Crowd is god awful... don't get the other 2 though.
you don't get the other two?

nadal's / murray's / djoker's half of the draw was pretty clearly the tougher one. you can check it out here (http://www.rolandgarros.com/en_FR/draws/index.html).

scheduling was very unfortunate, what with the murray - djoker match being strangely suspended without any rainfall actually occurring. this meant nole didn't get his day of rest like stan did.


oh well... the french hate wawrinka, but they only have themselves to blame for his victory. props to him, tho. he and murray are the only two men to win two slams during the fed - nadal - djokes reign of dominance going back... ten years or something?

[ArbitraryWater]

you don't get the other two?

nadal's / murray's / djoker's half of the draw was pretty clearly the tougher one. you can check it out here (http://www.rolandgarros.com/en_FR/draws/index.html).

scheduling was very unfortunate, what with the murray - djoker match being strangely suspended without any rainfall actually occurring. this meant nole didn't get his day of rest like stan did.


oh well... the french hate wawrinka, but they only have themselves to blame for his victory. props to him, tho. he and murray are the only two men to win two slams during the fed - nadal - djokes reign of dominance going back... ten years or something?

They cant handpick the seeding.. its luck, based on ranking. As far as schedule? Djoker played an hour or so.. meh, not the first one. Final is on Sunday, thats how it is.

[gigantes]

They cant handpick the seeding.. its luck, based on ranking. As far as schedule? Djoker played an hour or so.. meh, not the first one. Final is on Sunday, thats how it is.
yes, we know all that, but it doesn't change what i said.


and AFAIK the slam tournament directors can use their judgement to make seeding adjustments in some cases. a pretty obvious case could be made for ranking the greatest clay player of all time higher than #6.

again, the french only have themselves to blame for this result.

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

Federer is GOAT
this and its not even close. At least for basketball and NFL u can make arguments for a couple players..................tennis theres no argument

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

Federer is GOAT
this and its not even close. At least for basketball and NFL u can make arguments for a couple players..................tennis theres no argument

[gigantes]

this and its not even close. At least for basketball and NFL u can make arguments for a couple players..................tennis theres no argument
of course there are arguments against fed = GOAT.

sampras and nadal both can make good cases when you consider more than just majors count.

rod laver crushes (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=8951234&postcount=123) fed's stats the way fed does to almost everyone else.

several other guys (emerson, gonzales, etc) are considered by the body of tennis experts to have a strong argument for best ever.

[Milbuck]

Federer's GOAT case is about as weak as you could get in sports. He better be thanking the tennis gods that Nadal's body is breaking down and probably won't pass his slam count, because that's the only thing stopping him from being surpassed before his own retirement. Hell, even though Djokovic lost this final he looks really, really good and doesn't show signs of stopping. He could easily end up with 14-16 if he keeps dominating and have a case of his own.

Federer has been owned for over a decade by Nadal. Completely and utterly SHOOK every time he steps on the court with his biggest rival. You can see it in his face, the guy is defeated the second Nadal walks out of the tunnel and puts his bags and shit on his bench. 30% winning% against Nadal. 30%. In 33 matches over an 11 year span. Huge sample size where he gets shit on routinely. GOAT stuff right there.

It's like Michael Jordan and Hakeem Olajuwon having equal supporting casts throughout their careers, making the finals against each other, and Hakeem dominating him 70% of the time.

[Andrei89]

Federer at 34 is number 2 ranked in the world.

And people still think he is overrated. He is the GOAT and that is the end of it.

Milbuck, Nadal's body is breaking down because that is his style of play. If he was better in other areas, then he would not have to put so much pressure on his knees. He is the fastest tennis player I have ever seen. And , thus, with that style of play, come many injuries. That is why Fed is the GOAT.

[gigantes]

is federer automatically the GOAT?

CONS:

- the record for masters tourneys is owned by nadal, right? (or someone else, i forget)
- singles majors, career titles, season titles are all owned by laver.
- sampras was better at pure dominance against his rivals than fed.
- the calendar grand slam is owned by laver (2x). nobody ever did that, not even fed.
- several other top players played just as well in to old age... for example connors, laver and perhaps agassi.


PROS:

- leader at most weeks at #1, altho that stat only goes back 30+ years (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ATP_number_1_ranked_singles_players#Weeks_ at_no._1).
- leader at singles grand slam majors (17) over sampras and nadal (14 each).


correct me, confirm me, prove me wrong...

[NBAplayoffs2001]

Stan was better all match.

Terrible crowd, terrible seeding, terrible schedule by the French Open once again.

When are they going to scrap this one as a major? Probably everyones least favourite tournament.

When has the French Open ever had a good crowd? :confusedshrug:

I've been to France. I remember mentioning I'm American and I got some glaring stares.

#yolo

[imdaman99]

Wow, after slaying the dragon, Djoko lets down like this? I was ready to put him amongst the greats after he won today... he still might get there but this was very disappointing.

But all credit to Stan. I knew he had fight, saw him dismantle Nadal in the Aussie 2014 to basically steal Nadal's show (twice career slam) and ruin his party. He belongs at the top as a dangerous man. When you are 2-0 against Nadal and Djoko in a slam final, you deserve it.

Makes you wonder if Djoko is ever gonna get that career slam.

[NBAplayoffs2001]

Wow, after slaying the dragon, Djoko lets down like this? I was ready to put him amongst the greats after he won today... he still might get there but this was very disappointing.

But all credit to Stan. I knew he had fight, saw him dismantle Nadal in the Aussie 2014 to basically steal Nadal's show (twice career slam) and ruin his party. He belongs at the top as a dangerous man. When you are 2-0 against Nadal and Djoko in a slam final, you deserve it.

Makes you wonder if Djoko is ever gonna get that career slam.

Hopefully he doesn't have a Andy Roddick ending of his career in terms of Wimbledon. Roddick was one backhand volley away form winning one :facepalm. I remember wanting to punch a hole into my wall when I watched this live.

He was always a huge fan favorite at the US Open.