Is it fair to say leBJ is the best player in the league since Kobe?

[SwayDizzle]

or should we wait a bit longer to see how Curry's career develops?

[swagga]

meltdown, damage control.

[Eric Cartman]

control, meltdown damage.

[pauk]

damage, control meltdown.

[TheBigVeto]

Trick question. Kobe was never the best player in the league.

[G0ATbe]

He's not

[NumberSix]

No, because LeBron is the best player in the league since prime Shaq.

[HOoopCityJones]

No, because LeBron is the best player in the league since prime Shaq.

You Heat fans are cuckholding at this point.

[kshutts1]

or should we wait a bit longer to see how Curry's career develops?
What does Curry developing have to do with the question posed in the title?

Lebron is clearly the best player "since Kobe".

Even when Curry, or anyone, surpasses Lebron, that won't mean Lebron was not the best player from like... '09 until whenever he's passed.

Duh? :biggums:

[Mawly-G]

LeBron has been the best player in the league for quite a while now. Once he starts to decline, the league will belong to Durant.

[kshutts1]

LeBron has been the best player in the league for quite a while now. Once he starts to decline, the league will belong to Davis.
This.

[dh144498]

he is the best player post Lakers-Shaq. Best perimeter player since MJ.

[Dresta]

Curry has been a good deal better than Bron these playoffs who is still at sub 50TS% - they won't be beating the Warriors if he can't do better than that.

[SwayDizzle]

No, because LeBron is the best player in the league since prime Shaq.
Kobe surpassed Shaq

[SwayDizzle]

What does Curry developing have to do with the question posed in the title?

Lebron is clearly the best player "since Kobe".

Even when Curry, or anyone, surpasses Lebron, that won't mean Lebron was not the best player from like... '09 until whenever he's passed.

Duh? :biggums:
let's say Curry wins 3 titles in a row with 3 FMVPs. you may then say he is the best since Kobe.

[Mawly-G]

This.
Davis has to get a playoff win under his belt first. He's finally made the playoffs for the first time this season, which is a step in the right direction, however that was only due to the fact that Durant was hurt and the Pelicans barely edged OKC out for the 8th spot.

[Out_In_Utah]

This.
Agreed with your fix.

[hiphopfan777]

Bryant is better than shaq. More rings,81 points.

[kshutts1]

Davis has to get a playoff win under his belt first. He's finally made the playoffs for the first time this season, which is a step in the right direction, however that was only due to the fact that Durant was hurt and the Pelicans barely edged OKC out for the 8th spot.
I didn't realize we were discussing teams. Thought it was players.

Davis already has an argument for best player. I don't think he is; it's still Lebron's title. Pun not intended.

But Davis should "over-take" Lebron in the next couple years.

[Cold soul]

Post 2008 yes Lebron best player since Kobe.

[24-Inch_Chrome]

Kobe surpassed Shaq

:roll:

Only in your delusional mind.

[DMAVS41]

"Since Kobe"...implies that at one point Kobe was the clear cut best player in the league.

Which really never was the case. He might have had a few years in which it was debatable, but he never had an "era"...

The 3 clear cut best players since the MJ era have been Duncan, Shaq, and Lebron...in that order for me.

Kobe isn't on that tier of player imo.

How Lebron's longevity goes the remainder of his career will impact where he ends up on the all time list, but if we are just talking about what we've seen of Lebron to date vs Kobe?

It's really not that close...the only thing Kobe has on Lebron is longevity...and even then that is dwindling each passing game.

[SouBeachTalents]

I'd love to know who OP thinks has been the best player of the 2010's, and what argument they'd have over LeBron

[J Shuttlesworth]

let's say Curry wins 3 titles in a row with 3 FMVPs. you may then say he is the best since Kobe.
Actually you could say he's better than Kobe at that point. Kobe never did that

[Solefade]

LeBron is da bess

[HOoopCityJones]

"Since Kobe"...implies that at one point Kobe was the clear cut best player in the league.

Which really never was the case. He might have had a few years in which it was debatable, but he never had an "era"...

The 3 clear cut best players since the MJ era have been Duncan, Shaq, and Lebron...in that order for me.

Kobe isn't on that tier of player imo.

How Lebron's longevity goes the remainder of his career will impact where he ends up on the all time list, but if we are just talking about what we've seen of Lebron to date vs Kobe?

It's really not that close...the only thing Kobe has on Lebron is longevity...and even then that is dwindling each passing game.

And let me guess, was Dirk ever the clear cut best player in the league? :rolleyes:

[DMAVS41]

And let me guess, was Dirk ever the clear cut best player in the league? :rolleyes:

Clear cut?

Nah...don't think so.

Much like Kobe, Dirk had a few years or so where it could have been debated, but he never had that the way Shaq, Duncan, and Lebron did.

[rzp]

No, because LeBron is the best player in the league since prime Shaq.

Prime Duncan i'd say (around 04/05).

[Heavincent]

"Since Kobe"...implies that at one point Kobe was the clear cut best player in the league.

Which really never was the case. He might have had a few years in which it was debatable, but he never had an "era"...

The 3 clear cut best players since the MJ era have been Duncan, Shaq, and Lebron...in that order for me.

Kobe isn't on that tier of player imo.

How Lebron's longevity goes the remainder of his career will impact where he ends up on the all time list, but if we are just talking about what we've seen of Lebron to date vs Kobe?

It's really not that close...the only thing Kobe has on Lebron is longevity...and even then that is dwindling each passing game.

06-10 was CLEARLY the Kobe era. 2 FMVPs, MVP, 3 Finals appearances, 2 titles, individual dominance, etc.

[SexSymbol]

"Since Kobe"...implies that at one point Kobe was the clear cut best player in the league.

Which really never was the case. He might have had a few years in which it was debatable, but he never had an "era"...

The 3 clear cut best players since the MJ era have been Duncan, Shaq, and Lebron...in that order for me.

Kobe isn't on that tier of player imo.

How Lebron's longevity goes the remainder of his career will impact where he ends up on the all time list, but if we are just talking about what we've seen of Lebron to date vs Kobe?

It's really not that close...the only thing Kobe has on Lebron is longevity...and even then that is dwindling each passing game.
06-10 are you crazy m8?
easily Kobe's years, especially 08-10, not even debatable

[ShawkFactory]

06-10 are you crazy m8?
easily Kobe's years, especially 08-10, not even debatable
Lebron was absolutely debatable with Kobe in 2009 and 2010. Wade was very arguably better in 2009 as well.

[Cold soul]

Prime Duncan i'd say (around 04/05).

You can argue 2003 Duncan is better than Lebron ever was. His postseason run that season was one of best in playoff history consider his cast around him.

[DMAVS41]

06-10 was CLEARLY the Kobe era. 2 FMVPs, MVP, 3 Finals appearances, 2 titles, individual dominance, etc.

He was great those years, but I only have him as the best player in 08...maybe 07. So maybe it's just semantics, but the "since Kobe" thing just doesn't make sense here to me.

Duncan and Dirk and Wade were just as good or better from 05 through 07...and then Wade/Lebron were as good or better from 09 on.

So you are really only left with 08.

So he just wasn't there...sorry.

[rzp]

You can argue 2003 Duncan is better than Lebron ever was. His postseason run that season was one of best in playoff history consider his cast around him.

Agreed, total domination.

[Heavincent]

He was great those years, but I only have him as the best player in 08...maybe 07. So maybe it's just semantics, but the "since Kobe" thing just doesn't make sense here to me.

Duncan and Dirk and Wade were just as good or better from 05 through 07...and then Wade/Lebron were as good or better from 09 on.

So you are really only left with 08.

So he just wasn't there...sorry.

2 titles
2 FMVPs
1 MVP
Statistical dominance (Averaged 30/5/5 in playoffs, 4 straight 50 + point games, 81 points, entire month of averaging 40)

Show me a player who had a resume even remotely close to that between 2006 and 2010.

[Dbrog]

"Since Kobe"...implies that at one point Kobe was the clear cut best player in the league.

Which really never was the case. He might have had a few years in which it was debatable, but he never had an "era"...

The 3 clear cut best players since the MJ era have been Duncan, Shaq, and Lebron...in that order for me.

Kobe isn't on that tier of player imo.

How Lebron's longevity goes the remainder of his career will impact where he ends up on the all time list, but if we are just talking about what we've seen of Lebron to date vs Kobe?

It's really not that close...the only thing Kobe has on Lebron is longevity...and even then that is dwindling each passing game.

Pretty much agree with this. Kobe's never carried a team like Bron. Kobe has many other qualities that he's better at though. I guess they are somewhat close for me. Eye test just shows Bron being a bit better due to his size and athleticism. He impacts the game more than Kobe ever did which is why you are probably listing Kobe in a different tier. That said, Bron is a tremendous disappointment. He should have achieved way more with his teams at this point. Same could be said about Shaq...except Shaq was just lazy whereas bron lacks mental fortitude.

[DMAVS41]

2 titles
2 FMVPs
1 MVP
Statistical dominance (Averaged 30/5/5 in playoffs, 4 straight 50 + point games, 81 points, entire month of averaging 40)

Show me a player who had a resume even remotely close to that between 2006 and 2010.

What are you talking about resume for? We are talking about who the best players were during that time.

You are just arguing for Kobe being great and having great teams around from 08 through 10.

I already answered you. Start in 05 as that was the beginning of the Kobe "era" once Shaq left.

05 - nowhere near the best player

06 - great year, but personally i would have taken Duncan, Dirk, and Wade over Kobe that year.

07 - another great year, but I thought Duncan was better and a few others have arguments here like Lebron, Dirk, and KG

08 - thought he was the best player...but not overwhelmingly...KG/Lebron/CP3 were close

09 - Thought Lebron was better and Wade was just as good

10 - Thought Lebron was better and Wade was just as good



Again...this about being the best player for me. Not about a nice 3 year run by the Lakers.

If you want to label 08 through 10 a mini Kobe led Lakers era...I'm more down with that...than I am labeling 05 through 10 the Kobe era like he was the clear cut best player year in year out.

It's just different...

Shaq/Duncan from 99 through 07 definitely had an "era" imo...

Just like Lebron has had an era over the last 5 years...really 7 if we are talking honestly as it was pretty clear Lebron was the best or as good as anyone starting in 09...and wasn't far off in 08 either mind you.

I just don't see that from Kobe...

[HOoopCityJones]

Pretty much agree with this. Kobe's never carried a team like Bron. Kobe has many other qualities that he's better at though. I guess they are somewhat close for me. Eye test just shows Bron being a bit better due to his size and athleticism. He impacts the game more than Kobe ever did which is why you are probably listing Kobe in a different tier. That said, Bron is a tremendous disappointment. He should have achieved way more with his teams at this point. Same could be said about Shaq...except Shaq was just lazy whereas bron lacks mental fortitude.

:oldlol:

I'm done.

[Heavincent]

What are you talking about resume for? We are talking about who the best players were during that time.

You are just arguing for Kobe being great and having great teams around from 08 through 10.

I already answered you. Start in 05 as that was the beginning of the Kobe "era" once Shaq left.

05 - nowhere near the best player

06 - great year, but personally i would have taken Duncan, Dirk, and Wade over Kobe that year.

07 - another great year, but I thought Duncan was better and a few others have arguments here like Lebron, Dirk, and KG

08 - thought he was the best player...but not overwhelmingly...KG/Lebron/CP3 were close

09 - Thought Lebron was better and Wade was just as good

10 - Thought Lebron was better and Wade was just as good



Again...this about being the best player for me. Not about a nice 3 year run by the Lakers.

If you want to label 08 through 10 a mini Kobe led Lakers era...I'm more down with that...than I am labeling 05 through 10 the Kobe era like he was the clear cut best player year in year out.

Nobody was as consistently dominant as Kobe in that time frame. Period.

[HOoopCityJones]

Nobody was as consistently dominant as Kobe in that time frame. Period.

Don't pay him any mind, this is his ultimate agenda to make it seem like Dirk is anywhere near the convo of guys like Kobe.

Kobe was never the clear cut best player in the league?? :biggums:

NBA commentating between 06-10 disagrees with the Kobe hater.

[DMAVS41]

Nobody was as consistently dominant as Kobe in that time frame. Period.

I don't know about even that though. Lebron might have been. I mean....I know the numbers and advanced numbers will favor Lebron from 05 through 10.

[Heavincent]

I think there's a weird double standard with Kobe and Bran. Kobe can't win in the eyes of internet fans no matter what he does...leads his team to two titles, shits on the league..."meh, not impressed. Not that dominant." People act like the guy is merely another all star, like Melo or something.

Bran cruises through the garbage Eastern conference while Curry puts up better numbers against better competition..."omfg Lebron the best player in the world and it's not close"

I don't get it.

[jstern]

Kobe was never a clear cut best player in the league like a Jordan or a Shaq.

[DMAVS41]

Don't pay him any mind, this is his ultimate agenda to make it seem like Dirk is anywhere near the convo of guys like Kobe.

Kobe was never the clear cut best player in the league?? :biggums:

NBA commentating between 06-10 disagrees with the Kobe hater.

This has nothing to do with Dirk.

And it's not hating whatsoever to say Kobe was only the best player in the league in 08 during the time frame we are discussing.

It's my opinion...and I can base it on actual evidence about players impact.

What you and others will do is want to get into a highly subjective discussion that includes heavily weighted team success.

Sorry if you don't like my opinion...

[HOoopCityJones]

I think there's a weird double standard with Kobe and Bran. Kobe can't win in the eyes of internet fans no matter what he does...leads his team to two titles, shits on the league..."meh, not impressed. Not that dominant." People act like the guy is merely another all star, like Melo or something.

Bran cruises through the garbage Eastern conference, Curry puts up better numbers against better competition..."omfg Lebron the best player in the world and it's not close"

Exactly this , it's a travesty how underrated Kobe is at this point.

[DMAVS41]

I think there's a weird double standard with Kobe and Bran. Kobe can't win in the eyes of internet fans no matter what he does...leads his team to two titles, shits on the league..."meh, not impressed. Not that dominant." People act like the guy is merely another all star, like Melo or something.

Bran cruises through the garbage Eastern conference while Curry puts up better numbers against better competition..."omfg Lebron the best player in the world and it's not close"

That may exist, but that isn't what's happening here.

I'm just not going to claim Kobe was better than a player or two I didn't think he was better than just because he won the title while having far better help and coaching.

It's simply not crazy or controversial to have the opinion that Lebron and or Wade were better than Kobe in 09 and 10.

And it certainly isn't ****ing crazy to take the like of Dirk, Wade, Duncan...over Kobe from 05 through 07.

You may think it is, but you won't find much objective data to back you on that.

[ShawkFactory]

Why do people do this? Kobe was CLEARLY the best player in the league from 06-08. Especially 07 and 08.

His overall body of work from 06-10 was by far the best. Although in the last two years he wasn't the clear best.

[DMAVS41]

Exactly this , it's a travesty how underrated Kobe is at this point.

Could you list the best player in the league from 05 through 10 please...for each year?

[Heavincent]

Exactly this , it's a travesty how underrated Kobe is at this point.

I know...it doesn't make any sense. Dude averaged 30/6/5 on 47% shooting in the playoffs between 08-10, and people act like he's Joe Johnson.

[DMAVS41]

Why do people do this? Kobe was CLEARLY the best player in the league from 06-08. Especially 07 and 08.

His overall body of work from 06-10 was by far the best. Although in the last two years he wasn't the clear best.

Maybe because he was absolutely not clearly the best player in the league in 05, 06, or 07 as you claim?

That could be it...

[HOoopCityJones]

This has nothing to do with Dirk.

And it's not hating whatsoever to say Kobe was only the best player in the league in 08 during the time frame we are discussing.

It's my opinion...and I can base it on actual evidence about players impact.

What you and others will do is want to get into a highly subjective discussion that includes heavily weighted team success.

Sorry if you don't like my opinion...

:roll:

You can say that about any of the best players during their Era.

So Duncan was never the best player since Shaq was the most dominant during his prime and Kobe and Lebron literally came into their own right after. :hammerhead:

Just because they're other players playing great in the league doesn't take away from another player's dominance. 3 straight finals two separate times, repeating, stats , only a blatant hater would try to pretend Kobe was never the best player in this league. Real talk right now. Barkley , Malone , they all had monster stats that out did Jordan in certain areas. Yet everyone knows who was the best.


You take everything into consideration, one guy may have the stats, the other has the record , but only one Team wins the championship and in my opinion Kobe was the most dominant in this regard from 08-10.

:facepalm

[Heavincent]

That may exist, but that isn't what's happening here.

I'm just not going to claim Kobe was better than a player or two I didn't think he was better than just because he won the title while having far better help and coaching.

It's simply not crazy or controversial to have the opinion that Lebron and or Wade were better than Kobe in 09 and 10.

And it certainly isn't ****ing crazy to take the like of Dirk, Wade, Duncan...over Kobe from 05 through 07.

You may think it is, but you won't find much objective data to back you on that.

Just like it's not crazy to take Kobe/Wade over Lebron in 09 and 10, Dirk in 2011, Durant in 14, and Curry in 15. So Lebron didn't have his own era?

[chazzy]

Dmavs, why do you keep listing 05? They're consistently saying 06. Everyone knows that was a down year for Kobe/Lakers because of injuries etc.

[DMAVS41]

I know...it doesn't make any sense. Dude averaged 30/6/5 on 47% shooting in the playoffs between 08-10, and people act like he's Joe Johnson.

I know...it doesn't make any sense. Lebron averaged 31/9/8 on better overall efficiency than Kobe in the playoffs between 08-10....and people act like Kobe was clearly better.

[DMAVS41]

Dmavs, why do you keep listing 05? They're consistently saying 06. Everyone knows that was a down year for Kobe/Lakers because of injuries etc.

Because that was the beginning of the Kobe "era"....he was on his own and free from Shaq.

Seems like that should count...why wouldn't it?

[Heavincent]

I know...it doesn't make any sense. Lebron averaged 31/9/8 on better overall efficiency than Kobe in the playoffs between 08-10....and people act like Kobe was clearly better.

I'm not saying nobody has a case in individual seasons, but in terms of body of word from 06 to 10, nobody was better.

[DMAVS41]

Just like it's not crazy to take Kobe/Wade over Lebron in 09 and 10, Dirk in 2011, Durant in 14, and Curry in 15. So Lebron didn't have his own era?

This is where we just have to disagree. I do think it's a bit crazy to do some of that stuff actually.

But I don't want to derail this into a Lebron vs Durant vs Curry thread.

[chazzy]

Because that was the beginning of the Kobe "era"....he was on his own and free from Shaq.

Seems like that should count...why wouldn't it?
Because that wasn't the initial statement. You're adding an extra year in which Kobe didn't have a case into the time frame.

[DMAVS41]

I'm not saying nobody has a case in individual seasons, but in terms of body of word from 06 to 10, nobody was better.

And I'm disagreeing with you.

I think Lebron was a better player overall from 06 through 10.

And I also think when you actually look at the details of those years...you just don't see the kind of dominance that Lebron, Duncan, and Shaq had.

Therefore I don't consider there ever a time where it was clear the Kobe was the best player really. Hence I don't like the term "kobe era"

[Heavincent]

This is where we just have to disagree. I do think it's a bit crazy to do some of that stuff actually.

But I don't want to derail this into a Lebron vs Durant vs Curry thread.

This is where I'm seeing the double standard. People are so eager to call Lebron the best, no matter what. Durant led his team to more wins with less help (no Westbrook for a good portion of the season) in a brutal conference, loses to the same team Lebron lost to (with no Ibaka for 2 games), and he has no case? And Curry leads his team to a historic regular season, has been the best player in the postseason, and he doesn't have a case either?

[DMAVS41]

Because that wasn't the initial statement. You're adding an extra year in which Kobe didn't have a case into the time frame.

Oh I see.

Okay...we can only do 06.

I just think we have to talk about 05 because that really wast the start of all this, but we can remove that for this converation.

[HOoopCityJones]

Dmavs, why do you keep listing 05? They're consistently saying 06. Everyone knows that was a down year for Kobe/Lakers because of injuries etc.

Because. Ive noticed even more so than Lebron people wanna emphasize Kobe's failures to the 10th degree. Even the most blatant Lebron troll acknowledges that he's an all time great. This ni99a here is trying act like Kobe isn't in the class of greats like Bird , Duncan, Jordan and Magic.

Yet, after Lebron won his first ring half this forum was ready to put him in the Top 5.

Each of the Top Ten players all have something the other doesn't , that's just the blatant truth. MJ is 6/6 , Bird and Magic did the most in the shortest time span, Bill was the greatest champ, Duncan the greatest winner, Wilt and
Shaq are the most dominant forces the game ever saw, Kobe is the closest skill wise to Jordan, one of the GOAT scorers and has the winning resume to back it up and Lebron is probably the greatest physical specimen since Wilt and Shaq and is just as dominant in his own era. Kareem is just the greatest Basketball figure in the history of the sport, one at each level.

[chazzy]

This is where I'm seeing the double standard. People are so eager to call Lebron the best, no matter what. Durant led his team to more wins with less help (no Westbrook for a good portion of the season) in a brutal conference, loses to the same team Lebron lost to (with no Ibaka for 2 games), and he has no case? And Curry leads his team to a historic regular season, has been the best player in the postseason, and he doesn't have a case either?
Agreed, I think people are caught up in Lebron's raw averages/team injuries and not realizing Curry's averaging 29/5/6 on 62 TS% himself. If one can say Lebron in 07 has a case then this should also be applicable.

[DMAVS41]

This is where I'm seeing the double standard. People are so eager to call Lebron the best, no matter what. Durant led his team to more wins with less help (no Westbrook for a good portion of the season) in a brutal conference, loses to the same team Lebron lost to (with no Ibaka for 2 games), and he has no case? And Curry leads his team to a historic regular season, has been the best player in the postseason, and he doesn't have a case either?

I don't think that is a double standard. I think it's just that Kobe's competition was better....mainly from Lebron/Wade/Dirk/Duncan.

Kobe was fighting off Lebron during that time.

Lebron is fighting off lesser players imo.

If prime/peak Kobe was in the league right now...I wouldn't be saying this...because I think Kobe is better than guys like Durant/Curry.

[DMAVS41]

Agreed, I think people are caught up in Lebron's raw averages/team injuries and not realizing Curry's averaging 29/5/6 on 62 TS% himself. If one can say Lebron in 07 has a case then this should also be applicable.

So. You are honestly saying you'd take Curry over Lebron to start a team for one year...this year?

[HOoopCityJones]

Agreed, I think people are caught up in Lebron's raw averages/team injuries and not realizing Curry's averaging 29/5/6 on 62 TS% himself. If one can say Lebron in 07 has a case then this should also be applicable.

No, no , no

You're not doing it right, these crteria only apply to Kobe. Never mind that Durant was statistically better last year, DMAVS would still say LBJ was the better player. Yet the same can't apply for Kobe in between 08-10.

[chazzy]

So. You are honestly saying you'd take Curry over Lebron to start a team for one year...this year?
His performance warrants him to be in that conversation at least, especially after Lebron became inexplicably inefficient this postseason. My point is that it's not clear cut

[DMAVS41]

No, no , no

You're not doing it right, these crteria only apply to Kobe. Never mind that Durant was statistically better last year, DMAVS would still say LBJ was the better player. Yet the same can't apply for Kobe in between 08-10.

Slippery slope for you.

Lebron was statistically better than Kobe from 06 through 10.

:confusedshrug:

[HOoopCityJones]

Slippery slope for you.

Lebron was statistically better than Kobe from 06 through 10.

:confusedshrug:


Yet who's production led to the ultimate goal.

Who's the best player this year , Curry or Lebron?

[Heavincent]

So. You are honestly saying you'd take Curry over Lebron to start a team for one year...this year?

I would.

[DMAVS41]

His performance warrants him to be in that conversation at least, especially after Lebron became inexplicably inefficient this postseason.

That seems like a dodge to me.

And if we are going to do it that way.

How on earth can you the claim Kobe had an era?

Lebron was statistically better from 06 through 10 than Kobe was...both in advanced metrics and the raw data.

I was giving the benefit of the doubt here to be honest....if we are going to do it like that I see no reason that Kobe deserves an era.

[DMAVS41]

Yet who's production led to the ultimate goal.

Who's the best player this year , Curry or Lebron?


This is my exact point.

You run to the team argument when comparing players. It's pointless.

You simply can't do that when talking about players.

Lebron is better than Curry...please.

[chazzy]

That seems like a dodge to me.

And if we are going to do it that way.

How on earth can you the claim Kobe had an era?

Lebron was statistically better from 06 through 10 than Kobe was...both in advanced metrics and the raw data.

I was giving the benefit of the doubt here to be honest....if we are going to do it like that I see no reason that Kobe deserves an era.
I'm doing it like that to put in perspective of how Curry has a case, similar to all those other players you listed had a case in each of those other years.

[Dbrog]

:oldlol:

I'm done.

Why are you done? Kobe never carried a team of role players. That's an indisputable fact. He didn't go anywhere (even missed the playoffs and then quit the next year vs phoenix) until Pau got there. He had great teams since that point. Bron carried those old Cavs teams pretty far and they were pretty bad. Then he decided to stack-attack.

[SexSymbol]

Lebron was absolutely debatable with Kobe in 2009 and 2010. Wade was very arguably better in 2009 as well.
Lebron had just as much help in 09 as Kobe did and failed to reach the finals, lost to magic, which Kobe dominated against and won.
2010, Bron quit in the playoffs, you can't be best player if you quit, you just can't, and Kobe wins ring and fmvp.
06 one of the best scoring seasons ever, 35 ppg average, gives a hell of a fight to the first seeded Suns
07 one of the best scoring seasons ever, 10 50 point games
08 he was carrying Lakers to the first sead in the West even before acquiring Gasol.
09 dominated in the playoffs.
10 dominated in the playoffs aside from one or two games.

[Relinquish]

:oldlol:

I'm done.

He has been the #1 option, but he has never carried scrubs to the finals like Lebron has, let alone to the 2nd round.

[HOoopCityJones]

That seems like a dodge to me.

And if we are going to do it that way.

How on earth can you the claim Kobe had an era?

Lebron was statistically better from 06 through 10 than Kobe was...both in advanced metrics and the raw data.

I was giving the benefit of the doubt here to be honest....if we are going to do it like that I see no reason that Kobe deserves an era.

Except the stat that matters the most results.


This is the thing about NBA fans, slight differences between efficiency and volume and they swear to God player A is better than player B.


5.2 6.3 5.4 1.8 0.5 3.1 2.8 28.3


^ Not dominant when Lebron won his only rings on similar production. :facepalm

[SexSymbol]

Why are you done? Kobe never carried a team of role players. That's an indisputable fact. He didn't go anywhere (even missed the playoffs and then quit the next year vs phoenix) until Pau got there. He had great teams since that point. Bron carried those old Cavs teams pretty far and they were pretty bad. Then he decided to stack-attack.
Just like he led the Lakers to be the first seed in the West in 07-08 before acquiring Gasol?
Or how he took the suns to seven games in 06?

Are you even sane?

[HOoopCityJones]

He has been the #1 option, but he has never carried scrubs to the finals like Lebron has, let alone to the 2nd round.

When you play in the lesser conference , feats like that should be expected. Kobe has always played better talent than Lebron his entire career, but please continue to act like a core of Kawame and Smush Parker out West isn't suicide. :lol

Mid 2000's Spurs and 7 seconds or less Suns > Lebron's entire conference runs.

[DMAVS41]

I'm doing it like that to put in perspective of how Curry has a case, similar to all those other players you listed had a case in each of those other years.

For starters, I disagree.

I don't think that Curry has as good of a case over Lebron right now as Dirk, Duncan, and Wade did in 06 over Kobe for example.

And I'll ask again...why would then 06 through 10 be the Kobe era when Lebron was just as good or better during that time?

I mean...you really think the gap between Kobe and Lebron from 06 through 10 was bigger than the gap between Curry and Lebron right now?

[DMAVS41]

Except the stat that matters the most results.


This is the thing about NBA fans, slight differences between efficiency and volume and they swear to God player A is better than player B.


5.2 6.3 5.4 1.8 0.5 3.1 2.8 28.3


^ Not dominant when Lebron won his only rings on similar production. :facepalm


That isn't how it works for me.

I simply watch players play and then go to the objective measures to see if my own conclusions match up with them.

This is hard for Kobe fans because you think everyone watches him and gets the same feelings you do. But not everyone does.

[HOoopCityJones]

Why are you done? Kobe never carried a team of role players. That's an indisputable fact. He didn't go anywhere (even missed the playoffs and then quit the next year vs phoenix) until Pau got there. He had great teams since that point. Bron carried those old Cavs teams pretty far and they were pretty bad. Then he decided to stack-attack.


:roll: @ these fabricated crteria , omg.

Well, Lebron has never won in the Western conference so his entire career is a joke. :confusedshrug:

[HOoopCityJones]

That isn't how it works for me.

I simply watch players play and then go to the objective measures to see if my own conclusions match up with them.

This is hard for Kobe fans because you think everyone watches him and gets the same feelings you do. But not everyone does.


So you have no idea what you're talking about in that case, you look at his stats and let your bias color your opinions. I watch Curry, Bron, Durant, Duncan etc.

It doesn't matter , if I'm gonna try to talk big shit about how players play compared to eachother best believe I'm gonna watch a good chunk of their games before I come to my conclusions.

You stat junkies make me sick , I swear to God, you rob the game of it's context and players of their impact.

It's no fuccing coincidence that Kobe was a key player on 5 championships. 7 Finals runs.

[Dbrog]

Just like he led the Lakers to be the first seed in the West in 07-08 before acquiring Gasol?
Or how he took the suns to seven games in 06?

Are you even sane?

I know that you aren't sane because you clearly didn't watch the suns series. That's when he quit. It was very easy to see the point where he gave up (not saying I blame him). He had that (i think) double OT game where he just went nuts and tried to will the Lakers to victory. After that point, he just stood around like Bron did when he quit. Why are you referencing a season in which Kobe didn't prove anything (BECAUSE the lakers acquired Gasol)? You don't see me sitting here saying Amare woulda led the Knicks to the most success in recent history when he had them winning games before Melo got acquired. Do you know why I don't talk about that? Because no one will ever know what would have happened but we know what DID happen.

[chazzy]

For starters, I disagree.

I don't think that Curry has as good of a case over Lebron right now as Dirk, Duncan, and Wade did in 06 for example.

And I'll ask again...why would then 06 through 10 be the Kobe era when Lebron was just as good or better during that time?

I mean...you really think the gap between Kobe and Lebron from 06 through 10 was bigger than the gap between Curry and Lebron right now?
Still have another series before the verdict on Curry and Lebron this year. 49 TS% is a big deal despite the all around numbers.. I'm assuming he'll improve that in the finals.

I personally have 06-08 as Kobe, and 09-10 as Lebron (weaker in 2010). So to claim overall that 06-10 is Kobe's era isn't an outlandish statement to me, especially when Kobe won Finals MVP as a top 2 or 3 player in the two years he wasn't the best.

[Da Hammer]

00-02 Shaq
03-05 Duncan
06 - Wade
07-10 - Kobe
10-12 Lebron
13 - Durant
14/15 season - Bron/Curry

[DMAVS41]

So you have no idea what you're talking about in that case, you look at his stats and let your bias color your opinions. I watch Curry, Bron, Durant, Duncan etc.

It doesn't matter , if I'm gonna try to talk big shit about how players play compared to eachother best believe I'm gonna watch a good chunk of their games before I come to my conclusions.

You stat junkies make me sick , I swear to God, you rob the game of it's context and players of their impact.

It's fuccing coincidence that Kobe was a key player on 5 championships. 7 Finals runs.

What are you even saying?

I just said I watch the games to form my opinions...then I go look at objective measures to see if I have any failures in my conclusions...etc.

My point is that you watch Kobe and you clearly think he's better than I do. You think this is hating. In reality it's just honesty.

And you freak out when people don't want to agree with you.

And then you freak out even more when people poke holes in your arguments and present real information.

[HOoopCityJones]

What are you even saying?

I just said I watch the games to form my opinions...then I go look at objective measures to see if I have any failures in my conclusions...etc.

My point is that you watch Kobe and you clearly think he's better than I do. You think this is hating. In reality it's just honesty.

And you freak out when people don't want to agree with you.

And then you freak out even more when people poke holes in your arguments and present real information.

No, it's a difference between saying Lebron is better than Kobe , Duncan etc. That shit is nothing , it's said everyday on this forum by every Tom , Dick and Harry with an opinion.

And saying he never had an era of dominance , that shit is just a fallacy to fit an agenda. Plain and simple.

[SexSymbol]

I know that you aren't sane because you clearly didn't watch the suns series. That's when he quit. It was very easy to see the point where he gave up (not saying I blame him). He had that (i think) double OT game where he just went nuts and tried to will the Lakers to victory. After that point, he just stood around like Bron did when he quit. Why are you referencing a season in which Kobe didn't prove anything (BECAUSE the lakers acquired Gasol)? You don't see me sitting here saying Amare woulda led the Knicks to the most success in recent history when he had them winning games before Melo got acquired. Do you know why I don't talk about that? Because no one will ever know what would have happened but we know what DID happen.
C'mon, start looking up stuff about basketball, you just sound so.... casual.
He didn't quit, it was Pjaxes plan to use him as a decoy, when that failed, he started gunning, hence the 50 point game and 20+ point 1st half of G7 that Lakers still lost, so they tried to use him as a decoy again in the 2nd half, but it failed.
I'm not talking about what would've happened, I'm saying what happened, Lakers were 1st seed in the west before the gasol trade, look it up.

[Dbrog]

:roll: @ these fabricated crteria , omg.

Well, Lebron has never won in the Western conference so his entire career is a joke. :confusedshrug:

Instead of acting like a dumbass, how bout you post the team of roleplayers you think Kobe carried past the 1st round. Seriously you sound so butthurt when anyone points out any criticism of Kobe. Newsflash: he has holes in his career. So does everyone else. It doesn't mean he was a "flawed" player or something. He's one of the best to ever play and BEASTED fools. Why is it so hard for you to accept certain things he was unable to accomplish?

[SexSymbol]

For starters, I disagree.

I don't think that Curry has as good of a case over Lebron right now as Dirk, Duncan, and Wade did in 06 over Kobe for example.

And I'll ask again...why would then 06 through 10 be the Kobe era when Lebron was just as good or better during that time?

I mean...you really think the gap between Kobe and Lebron from 06 through 10 was bigger than the gap between Curry and Lebron right now?
Wtf, why was he just as good? He clearly wasn't. 09 is the only debatable year, c'mon now.

[DMAVS41]

Still have another series before the verdict on Curry and Lebron this year. 49 TS% is a big deal despite the all around numbers.. I'm assuming he'll improve that in the finals.

I personally have 06-08 as Kobe, and 09-10 as Lebron (weaker in 2010). So to claim overall that 06-10 is Kobe's era isn't an outlandish statement to me, especially when Kobe won Finals MVP as a top 2 or 3 player in the two years he wasn't the best.

saying something isn't outlandish seems like a very low bar.

i totally agree the 49% TS is a big deal and I've been talking about that for a long time.

i just feel like there is some arbitrary things going on with Kobe here with you guys. i don't see much evidence of him being the best player in 06 especially given the competition that year, stats, advanced stats, and playoff play...

but that is just me.

I think Lebron since 09 was been more clear cut the best player in the league til present than Kobe ever was...seems obvious to me honestly.

Also, feel like there is a double standard here. You say the verdict is out on Curry vs Lebron this year, but yet you say you have Kobe as the best player in 06? How does that make sense? Duncan, Dirk, and Wade were clearly better than Kobe in those playoffs...especially Wade/Dirk.

Kobe was behind all 3 of those guys in RAPM that year and then he was worse in the playoffs while quitting in a game 7...and you award him best player?

Yet you say the verdict is out on Curry vs Lebron? Total double standard.

[ShawkFactory]

00-02 Shaq
03-05 Duncan
06 - Wade
07-10 - Kobe
10-12 Lebron
13 - Durant
14/15 season - Bron/Curry
:coleman:

[DMAVS41]

No, it's a difference between saying Lebron is better than Kobe , Duncan etc. That shit is nothing , it's said everyday on this forum by every Tom , Dick and Harry with an opinion.

And saying he never had an era of dominance , that shit is just a fallacy to fit an agenda. Plain and simple.

This is semantics.

What do you want me to say? I already told you I only thought he was the best player in the league in 08 during the time you are speaking of.

I'm not refuting Kobe was dominant. Shit...Kobe had an era of dominance from 01 through 10. That doesn't make it the Kobe era....

[Dbrog]

C'mon, start looking up stuff about basketball, you just sound so.... casual.
He didn't quit, it was Pjaxes plan to use him as a decoy, when that failed, he started gunning, hence the 50 point game and 20+ point 1st half of G7 that Lakers still lost, so they tried to use him as a decoy again in the 2nd half, but it failed.
I'm not talking about what would've happened, I'm saying what happened, Lakers were 1st seed in the west before the gasol trade, look it up.

Decoy? plz stop believing Lakers media. Clear as day many people on this board saw him quit. Players and Coaches can put out whatever statements they want. It doesn't change what we saw. You telling me Harden didn't quit on Houston yesterday? He was just ****ing around out there! Even his interview afterward, he was just like, "eh...we'll just worry about next year now." He was so checked out and pissed off at Dwight and Smith that he wasn't gonna kill himself putting up the sick numbers he was posting before in a losing effort.

lol @ "casual" comment btw. I'm pretty sure I know more ball history than you. I'm a pretty avid student of the game. There are certainly some on here that know more than me though.

[ImKobe]

Kobe's still the best player in the league until proven otherwise.

[HOoopCityJones]

Instead of acting like a dumbass, how bout you post the team of roleplayers you think Kobe carried past the 1st round. Seriously you sound so butthurt when anyone points out any criticism of Kobe. Newsflash: he has holes in his career. So does everyone else. It doesn't mean he was a "flawed" player or something. He's one of the best to ever play and BEASTED fools. Why is it so hard for you to accept certain things he was unable to accomplish?

He plays in the weakest conference, depleted of All stars. Not a feat.

Kobe's played tougher competition , more all time greats. Harder road to every one of his rings.

[HOoopCityJones]

This is semantics.

What do you want me to say? I already told you I only thought he was the best player in the league in 08 during the time you are speaking of.

I'm not refuting Kobe was dominant. Shit...Kobe had an era of dominance from 01 through 10. That doesn't make it the Kobe era....

08-10 was Kobe's Era. Lebron, CP3 etc. may have been better statistically , but it didn't lead to Finals, championships for their Teams in that timespan, WITH the stats to compliment it.


The one thing people like you said Kobe would never do without Shaq, win a championship and repeat and now he's done it TWICE and the criteria has changed again. :facepalm

Watch Kobe's interview with Rashad. He talks about people like you and how it drove him to break off from Shaq.

[Dbrog]

He plays in the weakest conference, depleted of All stars. Not a feat.

Kobe's played tougher competition , more all time greats. Harder road to every one of his rings.

Completely agree. So why do you seem to think it's laughable to say Kobe never carried role players past the 1st round?

Edit: LBJ did carry role players past some good teams in the east btw...that's a feat.

[HOoopCityJones]

Completely agree. So why do you seem to think it's laughable to say Kobe never carried role players past the 1st round?

Because that's not criteria to be an All time great.

If so , Bird , Magic, Kareem , Lebron is above all of them because they've never done that? :roll:

[fragokota]

Kobe's still the best player in the league until proven otherwise.

:kobe:

[DMAVS41]

08-10 was Kobe's Era. Lebron, CP3 etc. may have been better statistically , but it didn't lead to Finals, championships for their Teams in that timespan, WITH the stats to compliment it.


The one thing people like you said Kobe would never do without Shaq, win a championship and repeat and now he's done it TWICE and the criteria has changed again. :facepalm

Watch Kobe's interview with Rashad. He talks about people like you and how it drove him to break off from Shaq.

You are having a separate conversation. You are more interested in talking about something else.

The topic here is the "best player"...

I already said of course 08 through 10 is going to be known as the Kobe led Lakers "era"

That is different than claiming Kobe as the best player during those years.

You see the difference?

[Dbrog]

Because that's not criteria to be an All time great.

If so , Bird , Magic, Kareem , Lebron is above all of them because they've never done that? :roll:

Some people consider that in their criteria. TBH I didn't know we were comparing these players in all-time rank in this thread. Kobe is clearly ahead of Bron if we are. Does that make you happy? Are you fulfilled now?

Btw, Kareem and Bron have certainly led role players way deeper than the first round. Indeed Magic and Bird never had though and they are still ranked very high (to your point).

[Cold soul]

00-02 Shaq
03-05 Duncan
06 - Wade
07-10 - Kobe
10-12 Lebron
13 - Durant
14/15 season - Bron/Curry

Good list with years for players other than 06 Kobe was the best player in the game.

[HOoopCityJones]

You are having a separate conversation. You are more interested in talking about something else.

The topic here is the "best player"...

I already said of course 08 through 10 is going to be known as the Kobe led Lakers "era"

That is different than claiming Kobe as the best player during those years.

You see the difference?

No no , I know exactly what I'm talking about. You're trying to push your weird ass agenda without context.

So just to review what you're saying since you wanna act like I'm trippin. Cp3, Lebron, Wade, Duncan and I guess Tmac and KG and the like were all better players than Kobe from 06-10 and he's never had what people would consider his own "Era" , correct? :confusedshrug:

[DMAVS41]

No no , I know exactly what I'm talking about. You're trying to push your weird ass agenda without context.

So just to review what you're saying since you wanna act I'm trippin. Cp3, Lebron, Duncan and I guess Tmac and KG and the like were all better players than Kobe from 06-10 and he's never had what people would consider his own "Era" , correct? :confusedshrug:

I'm saying there was no prolonged stretch of Kobe's career where he was the best player or dominated the game like Shaq, Duncan, and Lebron have since MJ.

I've explained myself very clearly.

And it makes perfect sense. I don't think Kobe ever dominated the game/league like Duncan, Shaq, and Lebron have. Those 3 guys, in my opinion, deserve that notation with the caveat that Shaq/Duncan had an "era" pretty much together.

What I'm not understanding is people like you and others on your side wanting to say that Curry is better than Lebron this year, but then claim Kobe was the best player in 06.

That makes absolutely zero sense and it speaks to what I was getting at earlier and this whole time.

You guys watch Kobe and see him differently than I and others do. It's just the truth. So when you hear me take 3 guys over Kobe in 06...you freak out.

But it's just my opinion backed up with some evidence.

What makes no sense, however, is saying the verdict is out on Curry vs Lebron this year...then turning around claiming Kobe was the best player in 06.

You follow that? You see the double standard?

[Cold soul]

Why do people do this? Kobe was CLEARLY the best player in the league from 06-08. Especially 07 and 08.

His overall body of work from 06-10 was by far the best. Although in the last two years he wasn't the clear best.

Yeah pretty much in 09/10 you had Lebron and Wade as the best players along with Kobe.

[DMAVS41]

Yeah pretty much in 09/10 you had Lebron and Wade as the best players along with Kobe.


And you think Kobe was clearly the best player in 06?

[6 for 24]

Why are you done? Kobe never carried a team of role players. That's an indisputable fact. He didn't go anywhere (even missed the playoffs and then quit the next year vs phoenix) until Pau got there. He had great teams since that point. Bron carried those old Cavs teams pretty far and they were pretty bad. Then he decided to stack-attack.

I am sorry, I cannot hold my tongue further!

In 2006 Kobe carried his team of scrubs against one of the all time great lineups, the Suns of Phoenix. This team featured future first ballot HOFers Tim Thomas, Raja Bell, and Leandro Barbosa (currently mvp of the GS Warriors, a team myself and all other Kobe stans are now rooting for (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11401674&postcount=17)). This team was also led by the diminutive but powerful white Steve Nash and coach Mike "D"antoni (the D for defense I presume), and I needn't remind you of their impact when they later teamed up with Kobe and the Lakers!

Yes Kobe did not win this series, but, like his world-famous 47 shot game (http://espn.go.com/nba/recap?id=221107002)(which he also lost), no one really remembers such trivialities in the face of great achievements.

I am glad to have gotten that off my chest!

Warmest regards,

Ayotunde Ndiaye

[Spurs5Rings2014]

I am sorry, I cannot hold my tongue further!

In 2006 Kobe carried his team of scrubs against one of the all time great lineups, the Suns of Phoenix. This team featured future first ballot HOFers Tim Thomas, Raja Bell, and Leandro Barbosa (currently mvp of the GS Warriors, a team myself and all other Kobe stans are now rooting for (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11401674&postcount=17)). This team was also led by the diminutive but powerful white Steve Nash and coach Mike "D"antoni (the D for defense I presume), and I needn't remind you of their impact when they later teamed up with Kobe and the Lakers!

Yes Kobe did not win this series, but, like his world-famous 47 shot game (http://espn.go.com/nba/recap?id=221107002)(which he also lost), no one really remembers such trivialities in the face of great achievements.

I am glad to have gotten that off my chest!

Warmest regards,

Ayotunde Ndiaye

:roll: :roll: :roll:

[Dbrog]

:oldlol: Well played sir :rockon: :pimp:

[Rose'sACL]

Lebron had just as much help in 09 as Kobe did and failed to reach the finals, lost to magic, which Kobe dominated against and won.
2010, Bron quit in the playoffs, you can't be best player if you quit, you just can't, and Kobe wins ring and fmvp.
06 one of the best scoring seasons ever, 35 ppg average, gives a hell of a fight to the first seeded Suns
07 one of the best scoring seasons ever, 10 50 point games
08 he was carrying Lakers to the first sead in the West even before acquiring Gasol.
09 dominated in the playoffs.
10 dominated in the playoffs aside from one or two games.
wtf are you talking about?
lebron dominated even more against magic than kobe did. lebron's team was nowhere near kobe's team in terms of talent.
how can a guy average 38-8-8 on better efficiency than kobe and you say that kobe dominated against magic but lebron didn't.


I am sorry, I cannot hold my tongue further!

In 2006 Kobe carried his team of scrubs against one of the all time great lineups, the Suns of Phoenix. This team featured future first ballot HOFers Tim Thomas, Raja Bell, and Leandro Barbosa (currently mvp of the GS Warriors, a team myself and all other Kobe stans are now rooting for (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11401674&postcount=17)). This team was also led by the diminutive but powerful white Steve Nash and coach Mike "D"antoni (the D for defense I presume), and I needn't remind you of their impact when they later teamed up with Kobe and the Lakers!

Yes Kobe did not win this series, but, like his world-famous 47 shot game (http://espn.go.com/nba/recap?id=221107002)(which he also lost), no one really remembers such trivialities in the face of great achievements.

I am glad to have gotten that off my chest!

Warmest regards,

Ayotunde Ndiaye
:lol :lol :lol :lol

[24-Inch_Chrome]

I am sorry, I cannot hold my tongue further!

In 2006 Kobe carried his team of scrubs against one of the all time great lineups, the Suns of Phoenix. This team featured future first ballot HOFers Tim Thomas, Raja Bell, and Leandro Barbosa (currently mvp of the GS Warriors, a team myself and all other Kobe stans are now rooting for (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11401674&postcount=17)). This team was also led by the diminutive but powerful white Steve Nash and coach Mike "D"antoni (the D for defense I presume), and I needn't remind you of their impact when they later teamed up with Kobe and the Lakers!

Yes Kobe did not win this series, but, like his world-famous 47 shot game (http://espn.go.com/nba/recap?id=221107002)(which he also lost), no one really remembers such trivialities in the face of great achievements.

I am glad to have gotten that off my chest!

Warmest regards,

Ayotunde Ndiaye

:roll:

[WADE MONEY]

What does Curry developing have to do with the question posed in the title?

Lebron is clearly the best player "since Kobe".

Even when Curry, or anyone, surpasses Lebron, that won't mean Lebron was not the best player from like... '09 until whenever he's passed.

Duh? :biggums:

that's some quantum shit right there

http://i.imgur.com/EeMjUwz.jpg

[SwayDizzle]

What Are You Guys Talking About?

[AlphaWolf24]

Kobe's clear cut reign as the leagues best allaround player...bye the majority of the fans

(01' - 02') debatable...it was basically between Him and Shaq....AI in 01' ?...Tmac?.....none of those guys had the defense ability as Kobe.( 1rst team all defense)

03' all NBA 1rst, All NBA D 1rst, took over the Lakers with Wilt Chamberlain offensive numbers...coming off of 3 straight Titles...Shaq was injured and clearly his last really good season.

06' - is this even debatable at this point....it's simply an iconic season...MJ 88' Kobe 06' Bird 84'....GOAT seasons

07' - slightly lower then 06' but still above his peers bye a wide margin. 1rst teams all everything

08' - all NBA 1rst team Defense again, arguably the best offensive player still...MVP...best combination on offense and defense.

09' - same as above except exchange regular season MVP with playoff MVP

10' - same as above.

I believe this is probably very accurate...especially looking at Kobe being voted as the GOAT 00's player bye every major sports/news outlet....

on top of actually following his career / living and breathing basketball during the 2000's....using the eye test ...KB8/24 clearly has 6 - 8 seasons of being recognized as the best player bye the majority of the fans.


(could have been 8 - 10 seasons but the whole Ho - tel thing threw a monkey wrench in 04' and 05')

[ShawkFactory]

Kobe's clear cut reign as the leagues best allaround player...bye the majority of the fans

(01' - 02') debatable...it was basically between Him and Shaq....AI in 01' ?...Tmac?.....none of those guys had the defense ability as Kobe.( 1rst team all defense)

03' all NBA 1rst, All NBA D 1rst, took over the Lakers with Wilt Chamberlain offensive numbers...coming off of 3 straight Titles...Shaq was injured and clearly his last really good season.

06' - is this even debatable at this point....it's simply an iconic season...MJ 88' Kobe 06' Bird 84'....GOAT seasons

07' - slightly lower then 06' but still above his peers bye a wide margin. 1rst teams all everything

08' - all NBA 1rst team Defense again, arguably the best offensive player still...MVP...best combination on offense and defense.

09' - same as above except exchange regular season MVP with playoff MVP

10' - same as above.

I believe this is probably very accurate...especially looking at Kobe being voted as the GOAT 00's player bye every major sports/news outlet....

on top of actually following his career / living and breathing basketball during the 2000's....using the eye test ...KB8/24 clearly has 6 - 8 seasons of being recognized as the best player bye the majority of the fans.


(could have been 8 - 10 seasons but the whole Ho - tel thing threw a monkey wrench in 04' and 05')
Literally Hal of those years are not clear cut. By Lakers fans? Maybe

[AlphaWolf24]

Literally Hal of those years are not clear cut. By Lakers fans? Maybe


then nothing is clear cut.....according to?

example: player A makes the all nba 1rst team and all nba 1rst defense team

player B makes all nba 1rst team but is not on any all nba defensive teams...

player A could be viewed as a better defensive player then player B...



or....


Player A takes 10 3pointers ( bad contested shots) and makes 4 = 12 pts = 40% FG

Player B takes 10 2 pt shots ( good shots) makes 5 = 10 pts = 50% FG

player A still scored more points despite shooting only 40%!!!

my point is...Kobe>yo favorite player...deal wit it...neener...neener...neener.

[dubeta]

LOL, can anyone whos not trolling, even tell me one season where Kobe was a top 3 player, let alone the best? Seriously??

[AlphaWolf24]

LOL, can anyone whos not trolling, even tell me one season where Kobe was a top 3 player, let alone the best? Seriously??


seriously?..

2007

1rst in the NBA in Scoring
3rd in the NBA MVP voting
1rst team all NBA
1rst team all defense

:confusedshrug:

EZ

[i<3basketball]

seriously?..

2007

1rst in the NBA in Scoring
3rd in the NBA MVP voting
1rst team all NBA
1rst team all defense

:confusedshrug:

EZ

you would want your best player to give you 7th seed?

[ShawkFactory]

then nothing is clear cut.....according to?

example: player A makes the all nba 1rst team and all nba 1rst defense team

player B makes all nba 1rst team but is not on any all nba defensive teams...

player A could be viewed as a better defensive player then player B...



or....


Player A takes 10 3pointers ( bad contested shots) and makes 4 = 12 pts = 40% FG

Player B takes 10 2 pt shots ( good shots) makes 5 = 10 pts = 50% FG

player A still scored more points despite shooting only 40%!!!

my point is...Kobe>yo favorite player...deal wit it...neener...neener...neener.
What?

[AlphaWolf24]

you would want your best player to give you 7th seed?


IDK.:confusedshrug: ..should Kobe be like the Dirk MVP Mavs and win nearly 70 games yet get swept in the first round???.....bye the 8th seed!


What?

there will never be a clear cut " best player"....But Kobe has come closest to fitting in each criteria then any other players listed....during his era.

[i<3basketball]

IDK.:confusedshrug: ..should Kobe be like the Dirk MVP Mavs and win nearly 70 games yet get swept in the first round???...

or would you rather have kobe win you 42 games and get 4-1 in the first round?
Don't get my wrong kobe is an amazing player with lots of talent and skills, but I rather have someone else who impacts the game more like Lebron who dishes out assist grabs more rebound and score on good efficiency instead of kobe who takes like 27 shots a game which doesn't even allow ball movements or anything. so perhaps you like a scoring machine like kobe but i think i'll take a man who involves his teammates and make the best plays.

[ShawkFactory]

IDK.:confusedshrug: ..should Kobe be like the Dirk MVP Mavs and win nearly 70 games yet get swept in the first round???.....bye the 8th seed!



there will never be a clear cut " best player"....But Kobe has come closest to fitting in each criteria then any other players listed....during his era.
Duncan had a stronger case than Kobe in 03. TMac was right up there too.

And you KNOW the Lebron/Kobe debate was almost 50/50 in 09 and 10. I personally think Bron was the more dominant player on both ends.

Clear cut is Shaq from 2000-2002. There were others with arguments at the time (Kobe for a stretch, Duncan and AI as well), but in general, he was the most consistently dominant player in those years.

Same with Kobe from 06-08. Or Bron in 12 and 13.

To me clear cut means there's a guy with a far stronger argument than everyone else. Something kobe didn't have in 01, 03, 09 and 10.

[AlphaWolf24]

Duncan had a stronger case than Kobe in 03. TMac was right up there too.

Duncan is no where near the offensive player Kobe was in 2003, Lakers were also coming off of 3 straight Finals, Kobe was again 2nd in Scoring and 1rst team all NBA/all NBA defense

Duncan is the only player that has a case...TMAC?...no where near the defensive player Kobe was.


And you KNOW the Lebron/Kobe debate was almost 50/50 in 09 and 10. I personally think Bron was the more dominant player on both ends.

ok...it was a debate...again Kobe was 1rst team ll NBA / 1rst all defense and won 2 Titles?:confusedshrug:

Clear cut is Shaq from 2000-2002. There were others with arguments at the time (Kobe for a stretch, Duncan and AI as well), but in general, he was the most consistently dominant player in those years.

Shaq was dominant 3' from the hoop....Kobe was also Dominant everywhere and again all defensive 1rst team , I could see it bieng a toss up...Kobe Dominating against the Spurs, Shaq Dominating against the 76ers

Same with Kobe from 06-08. Or Bron in 12 and 13.

06 - 08' is clearly Kobe.....not even worth debating

To me clear cut means there's a guy with a far stronger argument than everyone else. Something kobe didn't have in 01, 03, 09 and 10.


03' Kobe definatley has an argument......he was 3rd in MVP Voting coming off of 3 straight titles and all nba 1rst team everything.

06' - 10' he was 1rst team all everything and went to 3straight Finals,and or was the leagues most powerful offensive weapon.

only Michael Jordan did it better for a longer period of time....repeat, no other player during Kobe's era was better or more consistent at both ends of the floor.

[ShawkFactory]

03' Kobe definatley has an argument......he was 3rd in MVP Voting coming off of 3 straight titles and all nba 1rst team everything.

06' - 10' he was 1rst team all everything and went to 3straight Finals,and or was the leagues most powerful offensive weapon.

only Michael Jordan did it better for a longer period of time....repeat, no other player during Kobe's era was better or more consistent at both ends of the floor.
Kobe didn't have the defensive impact of Duncan in 03, so it goes both ways. Plus, Tim could have dominated that way offensively but he's IQ was also off the charts, and knew this often wasn't the most conducive way to lead a teams offense. Then you add his unbelievably dominant run in the playoffs..he had a stronger argument in 2003.

If you consider all of 06-10, then yes kobe was the best player. However, Lebron was just as dominant (if not more so) on both ends in 09 in 10.

[AlphaWolf24]

Kobe didn't have the defensive impact of Duncan in 03, so it goes both ways. Plus, Tim could have dominated that way offensively but he's IQ was also off the charts, and knew this often wasn't the most conducive way to lead a teams offense. Then you add his unbelievably dominant run in the playoffs..he had a stronger argument in 2003.

If you consider all of 06-10, then yes kobe was the best player. However, Lebron was just as dominant (if not more so) on both ends in 09 in 10.


Kobe absolutley has a similar impact...Kobe played a much more stretched out game then Tim Duncan...

Kobe was also guarding much more versatile scorers then TD night in and night out...

Kobe was also the Lakers go to guy in crunchtime..( during every championship run)

- Tim Duncan could never be the offensive weapon that Kobe was....it just doesn't work like that.....while Tim Duncan is an amazing Leader and winner...skill wise he could never be Kobe.

Kobe's teams have done better against Duncan's teams....especially when Kobe dominated offensively...both players have high BBALL IQ

- you discount Kobe's Dominant post seasons in 09' and 10'...yet you count Duncans in 03' and use it as the shining example as why he was better?

your criteria doesn't make sense......again...no player has been as good as Kobe at both ends of the floor more consistently......( from Kobes era)

[AlphaWolf24]

it's simple....

who has been a better player at both offense, and defense during the 10 year stretch?? 2000's

on top of " winning titles" if you even want to add that?....


the answer always willBE...Kobe..








(thumps chest)


next.

[ShawkFactory]

Kobe absolutley has a similar impact...Kobe played a much more stretched out game then Tim Duncan...

Kobe was also guarding much more versatile scorers then TD night in and night out...

Kobe was also the Lakers go to guy in crunchtime..

- Tim Duncan could never be the offensive weapon that Kobe was....it just doesn't work like that.....while Tim Duncan is an amazing Leader and winner...skill wise he could never be Kobe.

Kobe's teams have done better against Duncan's teams....especially when Kobe dominated offensively...both players have high BBALL IQ

- you discount Kobe's Dominant post seasons in 09' and 10'...yet you count Duncans in 03' and use it as the shining example as why he was better?

your criteria doesn't make sense......again...no player has been as good as Kobe at both ends of the floor more consistently......( from Kobes era)
A great defensive big has implicitly more impact defensively than a wing. Duncan was not only tasked with guarding the other teams best post player for most of the game but he was also the last line of defense. If Kobe got beat he still had Shaq underneath taking up space. This undoubtably allowed him to play looser and more freely.

And I'm not discounting Kobe's title runs. Just furthering the popular belief that Duncan's 03 run is one of the greatest of this era, if not all time. Kobe was great but he didn't dominate both ends the way duncan did. Especially defensively. He made Shaq look weak in that series. Probably the first time that had happened since Hakeem did it when Shaq was 22.

[DMAVS41]

03' Kobe definatley has an argument......he was 3rd in MVP Voting coming off of 3 straight titles and all nba 1rst team everything.

06' - 10' he was 1rst team all everything and went to 3straight Finals,and or was the leagues most powerful offensive weapon.

only Michael Jordan did it better for a longer period of time....repeat, no other player during Kobe's era was better or more consistent at both ends of the floor.


From 06 through 11...Kobe was 13th in RAPM

From 08 through 11...Kobe was 15th in RAPM

It's not perfect by any means, but I will put more weight into than all defensive teams and having the luxury of great help and coaching.

There is just almost 0 evidence that Kobe stood alone at the top of the NBA as a player for the time period being discussed here.

[AlphaWolf24]

From 06 through 11...Kobe was 13th in RAPM

From 08 through 11...Kobe was 15th in RAPM

It's not perfect by any means, but I will put more weight into than all defensive teams and having the luxury of great help and coaching.

There is just almost 0 evidence that Kobe stood alone at the top of the NBA as a player for the time period being discussed here.


ok...using a stat that uses snipets from games to see how certain lineups correlate with those snippets in " HOPE" I repeat " HOPE" that points back to the certain player that is consistent with those lineups to see if said player has a positive or negative impact on those said lineups....

the same stat that if you follow snippets of a game says Nick F'ing Collison has a greater impact on the game then Steph Curry.....
again according to the stat's snippets of games.

i'll take the fact that you used RAPM or XRAPM ( wich Kobe is average) as a sign of defeat.....I.E. Waiving the white flag.



I mean at some point stats can be useful....but this is just Turbo Whoring ..and frankly desperate to discount the greatest player of 2000's..

you are better then that....and I expected better!

















K.I.S.S ( keep it simple stupid)
next

[Ca$H]

I'll go with Curry.

[TheReal Kendall]

Seem like KD and LBJ shared that title.


I don't really feel like Kobe was ever the "Best in the League"

[DMAVS41]

ok...using a stat that uses snipets from games to see how certain lineups correlate with those snippets in " HOPE" I repeat " HOPE" that points back to the certain player that is consistent with those lineups to see if said player has a positive or negative impact on those said lineups....

the same stat that if you follow snippets of a game says Nick F'ing Collison has a greater impact on the game then Steph Curry.....
again according to the stat's snippets of games.

i'll take the fact that you used RAPM or XRAPM ( wich Kobe is average) as a sign of defeat.....I.E. Waiving the white flag.



I mean at some point stats can be useful....but this is just Turbo Whoring ..and frankly desperate to discount the greatest player of 2000's..

you are better then that....and I expected better!



















next

just because you don't know how to use said stats doesn't mean they are relevant.

you can't compare collison to curry...so you show how ignorant you really are.

we can simply start with 06. i'm asking you why you have kobe as the best player in 06. could you please answer that so i know what you are basing that on?

and a further question...who is the best player of this year?

thanks.

[JohnFreeman]

Obviously

[AlphaWolf24]

just because you don't know how to use said stats doesn't mean they are relevant.

you can't compare collison to curry...so you show how ignorant you really are.

we can simply start with 06. i'm asking you why you have kobe as the best player in 06. could you please answer that so i know what you are basing that on?

and a further question...who is the best player of this year?

thanks.

using stats I can compare any player to any player to see how they effect lineups....offensively or defensively...but that is a very very small part of basketball...and frankly paints a very small window.

I will get back to yo simple questions later...got to go play actuall basketball......hopefully I will get a high RAM or RAPM or was xRAPM.....for my league team.

[toxicxr6]

Lol these Kobe stans are so funny


Kobe has one mvp... Just one.... And they say his era was 4-5 years long

Lebron has 4 Mvps... Four!! And the Kobe stans say lebrons era is 2-3 years long

The reality is Kobes era is as long as durants era so far.. One frekkin year.. That's it.. And don't use rings to define your era when you had the most stacked team in the league

Kobe stans are the biggest fools on the forums... Keep losing

[Smoke117]

Kobe surpassed Shaq

http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Shaq-points-laughs-and-leaves-press-conference.gif

[Dro]

I've read this entire thread, every ****ing page and I basically agree with everything Dmavs has said. I don't honestly ever remember just being the "best player" in the league for a prolonged stretch. 06? Yes. Best player in the league, dominated. Everything else? Debatable. I've got some homeboys who are definitely huge Kobe stans but they wouldn't tell you he was the best player for more 1, possible 2 years in a row?

Never. He's a great player. But Lebron, Duncan, Shaq, they're just a level above. I'm sorry, they just are. You Kobe fans don't like it, but its just.............true....He's never had the sustained impact those guys have had. I like Kobe. I honestly like him more than I do Lebron, I just know Lebron is better. I like Kobe more than Shaq and Duncan, but they are better.

Why is that a diss? What's so wrong about that? Those guys are all time players. So is Kobe. He's top 10, well he's in mine with no change to move up. Those guys are ahead of him with Lebron having the possibility to get to #5, more likely #6.

Kobe's better than basically better than EVERYONE ELSE. Tons of great players, its not a diss. He has 5 rings but look, he has maybe 2 if he's not playing with Shaq. I know you hate it, but its just true......Shaq was dominant all the time. Kobe was dominant at times. He led some of those teams in the Finals.........But.......Still............Shaq.... ....

For all the talk about Lebron having 2 titles, Kobe would probably only have 2 also. And no, Shaq would not have 3 Laker titles without Kobe, but he's definitely beating the Nets and Sixers with or without Kobe. I hate saying that cause Shaq was so lazy. But it is what it is..

The title says "Is it fair to say leBJ is the best player in the league since Kobe?"

That implies to me that Kobe was undeniably the best player in the league for at least 3-4 years in a row. There shouldn't be a question really. But there are, tons. There's no question how long Lebron has been the best player in the league, he's had a crazy run. Durant challenged.

But whats crazy, if Kobe were to somehow help get his team deep next year, like WCF at least, that may bump him back up slightly ahead of Lebron for me, being able to pull that off. Especially if Lebron doesn't win any more titles...

[HOoopCityJones]

I've read this entire thread, every ****ing page and I basically agree with everything Dmavs has said.

Dmavs? That you? :biggums:

[TheMarkMadsen]

Lol these Kobe stans are so funny


Kobe has one mvp... Just one.... And they say his era was 4-5 years long

Lebron has 4 Mvps... Four!! And the Kobe stans say lebrons era is 2-3 years long

The reality is Kobes era is as long as durants era so far.. One frekkin year.. That's it.. And don't use rings to define your era when you had the most stacked team in the league

Kobe stans are the biggest fools on the forums... Keep losing

I guess Steve Nash had a longer era than Shaq

twice as long actually

:facepalm :roll:

[toxicxr6]

I guess Steve Nash had a longer era than Shaq

twice as long actually

:facepalm :roll:


Did you even understand the point?


So you like other Kobe stans claim Kobe had a longer era of dominance than lebron when

Lebron won 4 Mvps to Kobe 1
Lebron has better stats
Won the same number of rings
Won the same number of fmvps
Lebron didn't miss the playoffs in his prime

Yet Kobe had a longer era than lebron??? Please there is no rational arguement for that

[Prime_Shaq]

Wade was the best player in 09

[PsychoBe]

I've read this entire thread, every ****ing page and I basically agree with everything Dmavs has said. I don't honestly ever remember just being the "best player" in the league for a prolonged stretch. 06? Yes. Best player in the league, dominated. Everything else? Debatable. I've got some homeboys who are definitely huge Kobe stans but they wouldn't tell you he was the best player for more 1, possible 2 years in a row?

Never. He's a great player. But Lebron, Duncan, Shaq, they're just a level above. I'm sorry, they just are. You Kobe fans don't like it, but its just.............true....He's never had the sustained impact those guys have had. I like Kobe. I honestly like him more than I do Lebron, I just know Lebron is better. I like Kobe more than Shaq and Duncan, but they are better.

Why is that a diss? What's so wrong about that? Those guys are all time players. So is Kobe. He's top 10, well he's in mine with no change to move up. Those guys are ahead of him with Lebron having the possibility to get to #5, more likely #6.

Kobe's better than basically better than EVERYONE ELSE. Tons of great players, its not a diss. He has 5 rings but look, he has maybe 2 if he's not playing with Shaq. I know you hate it, but its just true......Shaq was dominant all the time. Kobe was dominant at times. He led some of those teams in the Finals.........But.......Still............Shaq.... ....

For all the talk about Lebron having 2 titles, Kobe would probably only have 2 also. And no, Shaq would not have 3 Laker titles without Kobe, but he's definitely beating the Nets and Sixers with or without Kobe. I hate saying that cause Shaq was so lazy. But it is what it is..

The title says "Is it fair to say leBJ is the best player in the league since Kobe?"

That implies to me that Kobe was undeniably the best player in the league for at least 3-4 years in a row. There shouldn't be a question really. But there are, tons. There's no question how long Lebron has been the best player in the league, he's had a crazy run. Durant challenged.

But whats crazy, if Kobe were to somehow help get his team deep next year, like WCF at least, that may bump him back up slightly ahead of Lebron for me, being able to pull that off. Especially if Lebron doesn't win any more titles...

simple question. how many times were those other plays voted as the player of the decade?

[Straight_Ballin]

let's say Curry wins 3 titles in a row with 3 FMVPs. you may then say he is the best since Kobe.

Please stop. Curry is good for at least 6 / 8 finals appearances.

Boot it.

[Megabox!]

Wade was the best player in 09
Tie between him and LBJ imo. They were insane that year

[Prime_Shaq]

Tie between him and LBJ imo. They were insane that year
and Kobe wasn't far behind. That was a fun fun season :banana:

[Dro]

simple question. how many times were those other plays voted as the player of the decade?
I understand your point but thats a different question. That's a recognition of how good he's been over the entire decade, its just timing. You can't give that to Shaq because he was basically done after 06-07. But that doesn't mean that he didn't have a more dominant several years than Kobe did. Shaq had 6 years from 00-2006 where nobody would have a problem saying Shaq was the best player all of those seasons, but just like the MVP award, you're going to spread it around. You're not going to give it to the same player every single year.

You're not going say Kobe was the best player every year just because he got player of the decade. Its not the same thing. We're talking individual years of being the best player in the league. At least thats how I interpret the title. But I could be wrong. Explain to me how you guys interpret the title.

[Jacks3]

Some of the Kobe stans here make me embarrassed to be a Bryant fan.

They can be quite delusional.

[ArbitraryWater]

Some of the Kobe stans here make me embarrassed to be a Bryant fan.

They can be quite delusional.

Jacks3 still the GOAT Kobe fan :bowdown:

[Dro]

Some of the Kobe stans here make me embarrassed to be a Bryant fan.

They can be quite delusional.
I'm interested. Me personally, I'm trying to be objective, I don't want to sh*t on him. But you're a Kobe fan, definitely not a stan. How do you feel about the topic? Do you feel we are being fair to Kobe?

[Jacks3]

I'm interested. Me personally, I'm trying to be objective, I don't want to sh*t on him. But you're a Kobe fan, definitely not a stan. How do you feel about the topic? Do you feel we are being fair to Kobe?

Absolutely. I think he has a couple of seasons where you can reasonably argue he was the best (06,07,08). I also think you can make a perfectly fine argument that he was never the best. I don't see what the big deal is. The Kobe stans here simply aren't willing to accept the fact that he was never a GOAT level guy.

[Dro]

Absolutely. I think he has a couple of seasons where you can reasonably argue he was the best (06,07,08). I also think you can make a perfectly fine argument that he was never the best. I don't see what the big deal is. The Kobe stans here simply aren't willing to accept the fact that he was never a GOAT level guy.
I guess I can't fault them, he's a great player who happens to be their favorite player. I think MJ is GOAT but he's nowhere near my favorite player. I'd probably have to choose a Pacer and even then, I'd have to think about it. I generally like whoever's on my team, that plays hard. Doesn't really matter how good they are. My favorite Pacer this past season was probably George Hill honestly, because I felt he consistently the best Pacer all year.

There's just not many GOAT level guys, its no shame to not be listed with them. I think its the reasons that some of the Kobe haters use to try to belittle him that pisses off his fans and I agree, that would piss me off too...

[HOoopCityJones]

Absolutely. I think he has a couple of seasons where you can reasonably argue he was the best (06,07,08). I also think you can make a perfectly fine argument that he was never the best. I don't see what the big deal is. The Kobe stans here simply aren't willing to accept the fact that he was never a GOAT level guy.

99/00

(WCSF) Phoenix Suns (53-29) ----------------- 21 ppg 3.8 rpg 3.4 apg

(WCF) Portland Trailblazers (59-23) --------- 20.4 ppg 4.9 rpg 5.6 apg

(Final) Indiana Pacers (56-26) ----------------- 15.6 ppg 4.6 rpg 4.2 apg

00/01

(WCQF) Portland Trailblazers (50-32) ------- 25 ppg 4.3 rpg 7.7 apg

(WCSF) Sacramento Kings (55-27) ---------- 35 ppg 9 rpg 4.3 apg

(WCF) San Antonio Spurs (58-24) ------------ 33.3 ppg 7 rpg 7 apg

(Final) Philadelphia 76ers (56-26) ----------- 24.6 ppg 7.8 rpg 5.8 apg

01/02

(WCSF) San Antonio Spurs (58-24) --------- 26.2 ppg 5.4 rpg 4.8 apg

(WCF) Sacramento Kings (61-21) ----------- 27.1 ppg 6.3 rpg 3.9 apg

(Final) New Jersey Nets (52-30) ------------- 26.8 ppg 5.8 rpg 5.3 apg

02/03

(WCQF) Minnesota Timberwolves (51-31) - 31.8 ppg 5.2 rpg 6.7 apg

03/04

(WCSF) San Antonio Spurs (57-25) ---------- 26.3 ppg 6.3 rpg 5.8 apg

(WCF) Minnesota Timberwolves (58-24) --- 22.6 ppg 2.8 rpg 4.4 apg

07/08

(WCQF) Denver Nuggets (50-32) ------------- 33.5 ppg 5.3 rpg 6.3 apg

(WCSF) Utah Jazz (54-24) ---------------------- 33.2 ppg 7 rpg 7.2 apg

(WCF) San Antonio Spurs (56-26) ------------ 29.2 ppg 5.6 rpg 3.8 apg

08/09

(WCSF) Houston Rockets (53-29) ------------ 27.4 ppg 5 rpg 3.7 apg

(WCF) Denver Nuggets (54-24) --------------- 34 ppg 5.8 rpg 5.8 apg

(Final) Orlando Magic (59-23) ----------------- 32.4 ppg 5.6 rpg 7.4 apg

09/10

(WCQF) Oklahoma City Thunder (50-32) --- 23.5 ppg 4 rpg 4.3 apg

(WCSF) Utah Jazz (53-29) ---------------------- 32 ppg 3.8 rpg 5.8 apg

(WCF) Phoenix Suns (54-28) ------------------ 33.7 ppg 7.2 rpg 8.3 apg

(Final) Boston Celtics (50-32) ----------------- 28.6 ppg 8 rpg 3.9 apg



------------------



06/07

(ECF) Detroit Pistons (54-24) ------------------ 25.2 ppg 9.2 rpg 8.5 apg

10/11

(ECSF) Boston Celtics (56-26) ---------------- 28 ppg 8.2 rpg 3.6 apg

(ECF) Chicago Bulls (62-20) ------------------ 25.8 ppg 7.8 rpg 6.6 apg

12/13

(Final) San Antonio Spurs (58-24) ----------- 25.3 ppg 10.9 rpg 7 apg

13/14

(ECF) Indiana Pacers (54-28) ---------------- 22.8 ppg 6.3 rpg 5.5 apg

14/15

(ECSF) Chicago Bulls (50-32) --------------- 26.2 ppg 11 rpg 8.8 apg

(ECF) Atlanta Hawks (60-22) ---------------- 30.3 ppg 11 rpg 9.3 apg



:confusedshrug:

[dubeta]

99/00

(WCSF) Phoenix Suns (53-29) ----------------- 21 ppg 3.8 rpg 3.4 apg

(WCF) Portland Trailblazers (59-23) --------- 20.4 ppg 4.9 rpg 5.6 apg

(Final) Indiana Pacers (56-26) ----------------- 15.6 ppg 4.6 rpg 4.2 apg

00/01

(WCQF) Portland Trailblazers (50-32) ------- 25 ppg 4.3 rpg 7.7 apg

(WCSF) Sacramento Kings (55-27) ---------- 35 ppg 9 rpg 4.3 apg

(WCF) San Antonio Spurs (58-24) ------------ 33.3 ppg 7 rpg 7 apg

(Final) Philadelphia 76ers (56-26) ----------- 24.6 ppg 7.8 rpg 5.8 apg

01/02

(WCSF) San Antonio Spurs (58-24) --------- 26.2 ppg 5.4 rpg 4.8 apg

(WCF) Sacramento Kings (61-21) ----------- 27.1 ppg 6.3 rpg 3.9 apg

(Final) New Jersey Nets (52-30) ------------- 26.8 ppg 5.8 rpg 5.3 apg

02/03

(WCQF) Minnesota Timberwolves (51-31) - 31.8 ppg 5.2 rpg 6.7 apg

03/04

(WCSF) San Antonio Spurs (57-25) ---------- 26.3 ppg 6.3 rpg 5.8 apg

(WCF) Minnesota Timberwolves (58-24) --- 22.6 ppg 2.8 rpg 4.4 apg

07/08

(WCQF) Denver Nuggets (50-32) ------------- 33.5 ppg 5.3 rpg 6.3 apg

(WCSF) Utah Jazz (54-24) ---------------------- 33.2 ppg 7 rpg 7.2 apg

(WCF) San Antonio Spurs (56-26) ------------ 29.2 ppg 5.6 rpg 3.8 apg

08/09

(WCSF) Houston Rockets (53-29) ------------ 27.4 ppg 5 rpg 3.7 apg

(WCF) Denver Nuggets (54-24) --------------- 34 ppg 5.8 rpg 5.8 apg

(Final) Orlando Magic (59-23) ----------------- 32.4 ppg 5.6 rpg 7.4 apg

09/10

(WCQF) Oklahoma City Thunder (50-32) --- 23.5 ppg 4 rpg 4.3 apg

(WCSF) Utah Jazz (53-29) ---------------------- 32 ppg 3.8 rpg 5.8 apg

(WCF) Phoenix Suns (54-28) ------------------ 33.7 ppg 7.2 rpg 8.3 apg

(Final) Boston Celtics (50-32) ----------------- 28.6 ppg 8 rpg 3.9 apg



------------------



06/07

(ECF) Detroit Pistons (54-24) ------------------ 25.2 ppg 9.2 rpg 8.5 apg

10/11

(ECSF) Boston Celtics (56-26) ---------------- 28 ppg 8.2 rpg 3.6 apg

(ECF) Chicago Bulls (62-20) ------------------ 25.8 ppg 7.8 rpg 6.6 apg

12/13

(Final) San Antonio Spurs (58-24) ----------- 25.3 ppg 10.9 rpg 7 apg

13/14

(ECF) Indiana Pacers (54-28) ---------------- 22.8 ppg 6.3 rpg 5.5 apg

14/15

(ECSF) Chicago Bulls (50-32) --------------- 26.2 ppg 11 rpg 8.8 apg

(ECF) Atlanta Hawks (60-22) ---------------- 30.3 ppg 11 rpg 9.3 apg



:confusedshrug:



Yet only 2 FMVPs

:confusedshrug:

[ISHGoat]

Yet only 2 FMVPs

:confusedshrug:

and basically never led his team in any meaningful advanced metric like ws48, bpm, even PER lol

[HOoopCityJones]

Yet only 2 FMVPs

:confusedshrug:

So do KAJ and Bird. :confusedshrug:

Both better than Lebron too.

[AlphaWolf24]

I understand your point but thats a different question. That's a recognition of how good he's been over the entire decade, its just timing. You can't give that to Shaq because he was basically done after 06-07. But that doesn't mean that he didn't have a more dominant several years than Kobe did. Shaq had 6 years from 00-2006 where nobody would have a problem saying Shaq was the best player all of those seasons, but just like the MVP award, you're going to spread it around. You're not going to give it to the same player every single year.

You're not going say Kobe was the best player every year just because he got player of the decade. Its not the same thing. We're talking individual years of being the best player in the league. At least thats how I interpret the title. But I could be wrong. Explain to me how you guys interpret the title.

( prolly arguing with someone who didn't watch Shaq play)

on the contrary...Shaq had 1 1/2 years......00' clearly Shaq....but 01' and 02' Kobe and Shaq were prolly the 2 best players in the league.

saying Shaq was the best player after 03'???...did you even watch basketball then?

2003

Kobe - 30ppg 5.9ast 6.9 reb 2.2 stl

Shaq - 27ppg 11reb 3ast 2.4 blk

2004

Kobe - 24ppg 5.5ast 5.1 reb 1.7stl

Shaq - 21.5ppg 11.5reb 2.9ast 2.5 blk

2005

Kobe - 27.6ppg 5.9reb 6ast 1.3 stl

Shaq - 22.9ppg 10.4 reb 2.7 ast 2.3 blks

2006

Kobe - 35.4ppg 5.4 reb 4.5 ast 1.8 stl

Shaq - 20ppg 9.2reb 1.9 ast 1.8blks

___________________________________________
Shaq had 1 1/2 seasons of being heavily favored as the best or at least the most important player in the NBA.

From 2001 - 2010 Kobe averaged over 28ppg 5 reb 5ast to go along with being 1rst team all nba and 1rst all defense 7 years...combined with being heavily favored as the best player for at least 7 of those seasons.

added also 4 titles in that span.....

__________________________________________________ ________

you say Kobe fans in this thread are delusional???....psst..



next

[AlphaWolf24]

Some of the Kobe stans here make me embarrassed to be a Bryant fan.

They can be quite delusional.


we are delusional?...

yet you have people saying Shaq was the best player in the NBA in 2003 - 2006???

http://media.giphy.com/media/1PgPvWLfXGkCY/giphy-facebook_s.jpg

[Cold soul]

I guess I can't fault them, he's a great player who happens to be their favorite player. I think MJ is GOAT but he's nowhere near my favorite player. I'd probably have to choose a Pacer and even then, I'd have to think about it. I generally like whoever's on my team, that plays hard. Doesn't really matter how good they are. My favorite Pacer this past season was probably George Hill honestly, because I felt he consistently the best Pacer all year.

There's just not many GOAT level guys, its no shame to not be listed with them. I think its the reasons that some of the Kobe haters use to try to belittle him that pisses off his fans and I agree, that would piss me off too...


Kobe was NEVER the GOAT but as player he's right there with greats as Magic, Bird, Duncan, Hakeem 2nd/3rd tier he is mad underrated here. Kobe a lot better than your giving him credit for people forget the past and overrate the present with no context, but then again that's sports fans for you.

[ShawkFactory]

we are delusional?...

yet you have people saying Shaq was the best player in the NBA in 2003 - 2006???

http://media.giphy.com/media/1PgPvWLfXGkCY/giphy-facebook_s.jpg
Obviously that's retarded. Considering the entire body of work duncan was the top guy from 03-06.

Probably could say he was #1 overall from 01-06 honestly.

[jstern]

I understand your point but thats a different question. That's a recognition of how good he's been over the entire decade, its just timing. You can't give that to Shaq because he was basically done after 06-07. But that doesn't mean that he didn't have a more dominant several years than Kobe did. Shaq had 6 years from 00-2006 where nobody would have a problem saying Shaq was the best player all of those seasons, but just like the MVP award, you're going to spread it around. You're not going to give it to the same player every single year.

You're not going say Kobe was the best player every year just because he got player of the decade. Its not the same thing. We're talking individual years of being the best player in the league. At least thats how I interpret the title. But I could be wrong. Explain to me how you guys interpret the title.

The player of the decade is actually different than that. It wasn't some NBA award, but rather an ESPN internet poll, voted by mostly teenagers at the time. And by reading the comments on a related YouTube page, teenagers who had no concept of the effects of aging, because to them prime Shaq equaled the current 37 year old Shaq that was playing at the time. They literally thought that Kobe was the man for those 3 championships, because they were not conscious during those times, haven't looked into the history, and are assuming that Kobe was the bigger star.

Those are the people who were voting on that ESPN internet poll.

[Dro]

( prolly arguing with someone who didn't watch Shaq play)

on the contrary...Shaq had 1 1/2 years......00' clearly Shaq....but 01' and 02' Kobe and Shaq were prolly the 2 best players in the league.

saying Shaq was the best player after 03'???...did you even watch basketball then?

2003

Kobe - 30ppg 5.9ast 6.9 reb 2.2 stl

Shaq - 27ppg 11reb 3ast 2.4 blk

2004

Kobe - 24ppg 5.5ast 5.1 reb 1.7stl

Shaq - 21.5ppg 11.5reb 2.9ast 2.5 blk

2005

Kobe - 27.6ppg 5.9reb 6ast 1.3 stl

Shaq - 22.9ppg 10.4 reb 2.7 ast 2.3 blks

2006

Kobe - 35.4ppg 5.4 reb 4.5 ast 1.8 stl

Shaq - 20ppg 9.2reb 1.9 ast 1.8blks

___________________________________________
Shaq had 1 1/2 seasons of being heavily favored as the best or at least the most important player in the NBA.

From 2001 - 2010 Kobe averaged over 28ppg 5 reb 5ast to go along with being 1rst team all nba and 1rst all defense 7 years...combined with being heavily favored as the best player for at least 7 of those seasons.

added also 4 titles in that span.....

__________________________________________________ ________

you say Kobe fans in this thread are delusional???....psst..



next
Da *** do you mean I didn't watch Shaq play? I'm 34 fuking years old. Just because I have my opinion and its different than yours, doesn't mean I didn't watch him play. I didn't say "I think Shaq was the best player every year from 00-06". I said the case can be made and it can. Somebody else could, I'm sure there are plenty who would try to say Shaq was the best during any of those years. I definitely wouldn't say he was the best in 06.

That's why you can't debate with stans. They take everything you say and turn it into the biggest debate in the world.

[stanlove1111]

06-10 was CLEARLY the Kobe era. 2 FMVPs, MVP, 3 Finals appearances, 2 titles, individual dominance, etc.

Not the stupid FMVP thing again. Can't someone start banning people for that crap?

Kobe and LeBron played in two different situations at that time. When Kobe won he had a lot better teams around him. When Kobe didn't have a good team around him he went nowhere while Lebron surrounded by weaker teams always challenged.

2008 summed up how much better and more valuable to a team Lebron is and was then Kobe ever was. This takes the East vs West stuff out and every other excuse Kobe fans try to make. in 2008 Lebron at 23 and well before his prime led a silly weak Cav team to a 7 game series against Boston and it could have gone either way. The same year Kobe right in his prime at 29 with a much better team around him got blown out by the same Boston team in 6 games. Lost the 6th game by 40 points or something.

This seems right and shows how much better and valuable Lebron was even at a young age then Kobe was in his prime.

[HOoopCityJones]

Not the stupid FMVP thing again. Can't someone start banning people for that crap?

Kobe and LeBron played in two different situations at that time. When Kobe won he had a lot better teams around him. When Kobe didn't have a good team around him he went nowhere while Lebron surrounded by weaker teams always challenged.

2008 summed up how much better and more valuable to a team Lebron is and was then Kobe ever was. This takes the East vs West stuff out and every other excuse Kobe fans try to make. in 2008 Lebron at 23 and well before his prime led a silly weak Cav team to a 7 game series against Boston and it could have gone either way. The same year Kobe right in his prime at 29 with a much better team around him got blown out by the same Boston team in 6 games. Lost the 6th game by 40 points or something. Other two main players of that core? Smush Parker and Kwame Brown , who are just flat out scrubs.

This seems right and shows how much better and valuable Lebron was even at a young age then Kobe was in his prime.


Because he played in a weak conference his entire career and when it did have some parity, he didn't sniff a Finals. Lebron knows it, takes advantage of it. There's nothing wrong with that but at the same time don't try to dump on Kobe's accomplishments because he had to play his entire prime with his second best player being Lamar Odom, who is probably the most inconsistent player Ive ever watched play aside from Jeremy Lin and Bynum.

As for the bolded , I don't see your point when Lebron didn't start winning anything of note til he Teamed up with a few All-stars him damn self, not one , a few, so...:confusedshrug:

[AlphaWolf24]

Da *** do you mean I didn't watch Shaq play? I'm 34 fuking years old. Just because I have my opinion and its different than yours, doesn't mean I didn't watch him play. I didn't say "I think Shaq was the best player every year from 00-06". I said the case can be made and it can. Somebody else could, I'm sure there are plenty who would try to say Shaq was the best during any of those years. I definitely wouldn't say he was the best in 06.

That's why you can't debate with stans. They take everything you say and turn it into the biggest debate in the world.


that's the whole point...to debate some aspects of "Basketball"....I'm sure there were tons of fans who said TMAC was better then Kobe and Shaq from 2001 - 2003...

( although most TMAC stans have given up on that notion over time)

you brought up Snaq being labeled ( by some) as the best player from 2000 - 2006

I thoroughly blew up that argument.....as Snaq was no where near the same player after 2003, meanwhile Kobe was playing at a top shelf level from 01 - 10' as I have proven time and time again. all NBA /all NBA defense

I like to hear people's opinions and agree or disagree ( mostly disagree) and debate some aspects...
and I do agree with some opinions...like Snaq said...Kobe is the GOAT Laker....I agree....although I always understand the Debate...kind of.

He must be a stan?

[AlphaWolf24]

Obviously that's retarded. Considering the entire body of work duncan was the top guy from 03-06.

Probably could say he was #1 overall from 01-06 honestly.


no way in 01' or 02' especially after Kobe R@ped the Spurs....

[DMAVS41]

that's the whole point...to debate some aspects of "Basketball"....I'm sure there were tons of fans who said TMAC was better then Kobe and Shaq from 2001 - 2003...

( although most TMAC stans have given up on that notion over time)

you brought up Snaq being labeled ( by some) as the best player from 2000 - 2006

I thoroughly blew up that argument.....as Snaq was no where near the same player after 2003, meanwhile Kobe was playing at a top shelf level from 01 - 10' as I have proven time and time again. all NBA /all NBA defense

I like to hear people's opinions and agree or disagree ( mostly disagree) and debate some aspects...
and I do agree with some opinions...like Snaq said...Kobe is the GOAT Laker....I agree....although I always understand the Debate...kind of.

He must be a stan?

The problem is that you base nearly everything on all nba selections and all defense.

I already showed you that the most reliable metrics we have for defensive impact favor a guy like Wade over Kobe in 06. Wade didn't make either all defensive team. Kobe made first team.

So it's silly...

[stanlove1111]

Because he played in a weak conference his entire career and when it did have some parity, he didn't sniff a Finals. Lebron knows it, takes advantage of it. There's nothing wrong with that but at the same time don't try to dump on Kobe's accomplishments because he had to play his entire prime with his second best player being Lamar Odom, who is probably the most inconsistent player Ive ever watched play aside from Jeremy Lin and Bynum.

As for the bolded , I don't see your point when Lebron didn't start winning anything of note til he Teamed up with a few All-stars him damn self, not one , a few, so...:confusedshrug:

Obviously you missed my point about 2008 which takes the East vs West out of it.

[AlphaWolf24]

The problem is that you base nearly everything on all nba selections and all defense.

I already showed you that the most reliable metrics we have for defensive impact favor a guy like Wade over Kobe in 06. Wade didn't make either all defensive team. Kobe made first team.

So it's silly...


No I don't...I'm basing all my opinions off of watching the games live! Living through the actual era and following / playing basketball...

Listen up YOUNGMAN I've watched more basketball the past 30+ years then you and your brothers( alts) combined ...

I wipe my azz with green starter jackets that have more celtic pride then Bill Simmons ....

I actually played Basketball on the same courts as Prime Bill Russell....I've been going to warriors games since Coach Popavich was getting water for RUN TMC and holding Nellies clipboard like a B!tch..

I don't need advanced advanced Mathmatics to tell me about Basketball......or who impacted the game.....


the triangle offense?....I am the Pythagorean theorem...

[TheMarkMadsen]

No I don't...I'm basing all my opinions off of watching the games live! Living through the actual era and following / playing basketball...

Listen up YOUNGMAN I've watched more basketball the past 30+ years then you and your brothers( alts) combined ...

I wipe my azz with green starter jackets that have more celtic pride then Bill Simmons ....

I actually played Basketball on the same courts as Prime Bill Russell....I've been going to warriors games since Coach Popavich was getting water for RUN TMC and holding Nellies clipboard like a B!tch..

I don't need advanced advanced Mathmatics to tell me about Basketball......or who impacted the game.....


the triangle offense?....I am the Pythagorean theorem...

AlphaWolf always destroying these fool

:bowdown: :bowdown:

[HOoopCityJones]

The problem is that you base nearly everything on all nba selections and all defense.

I already showed you that the most reliable metrics we have for defensive impact favor a guy like Wade over Kobe in 06. Wade didn't make either all defensive team. Kobe made first team.

So it's silly...

You mean the same precious metrics that has mediocre players ahead of all time Greats? :oldlol:



Metrics isn't all there is to basketball dude, and it really makes me question your knowledge of the game since that's the only evidence you use.

[sportjames23]

You Heat fans are cuckholding at this point.


http://i.imgur.com/BhPZX4k.gif

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Winshares per 48

Kyrie Irving- .217
JR Smith- .192
Tristan Thompson- .190
LeBron- .181

As we can see by the factual data, LeBron is being carried yet again. Its arguable guy doesn't even have the most impact on HIS TEAM. :oldlol:

[AlphaWolf24]

Winshares per 48

Kyrie Irving- .217
JR Smith- .192
Tristan Thompson- .190
LeBron- .181

As we can see by the factual data, LeBron is being carried yet again. Its arguable guy doesn't even have the most impact on HIS TEAM. :oldlol:


on the real for a sec...

TT is beasting....reminds me alot of Leon Powe in 2008...he was IMO the main COG for Boston's title run.

the focus and hustle....:bowdown:

[HOoopCityJones]

Winshares per 48

Kyrie Irving- .217
JR Smith- .192
Tristan Thompson- .190
LeBron- .181

As we can see by the factual data, LeBron is being carried yet again. Its arguable guy doesn't even have the most impact on HIS TEAM. :oldlol:

Metrics doe :bowdown:

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

on the real for a sec...

TT is beasting....reminds me alot of Leon Powe in 2008...he was IMO one of the key players for Boston's title run.

the focus and hustle....:bowdown:
Agreed. I also forgot to mention that numbers never lie.

Carry on :cheers:

[Solefade]

Winshares per 48

Kyrie Irving- .217
JR Smith- .192
Tristan Thompson- .190
LeBron- .181

As we can see by the factual data, LeBron is being carried yet again. Its arguable guy doesn't even have the most impact on HIS TEAM. :oldlol:


LeBron's winshares have taken a dive because of how super inefficient he's been but really are you going as far as to say LeBron is getting carried? if you are that's pretty dumb.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

LeBron's winshares have taken a dive because of how super inefficient he's been but really are you going as far as to say LeBron is getting carried? if you are that's pretty dumb.
Hey, I'm just going by what the stats say. :confusedshrug:

How can LeBron be the best player after Kobe or whoever, if according to the hard data, he ain't even the best player on his own team? Shits a trip, que no?!

[HOoopCityJones]

LeBron's winshares have taken a dive because of how super inefficient he's been but really are you going as far as to say LeBron is getting carried? if you are that's pretty dumb.

Some things you just know not to be true despite what the numbers say , right?



That's called Eye Test sweetie. Use it wisely. :cheers:

[Wade's Rings]

Some things you just know not to be true despite what the numbers say , right?



That's called Eye Test sweetie. Use it wisely. :cheers:

Eye Test...Bias what's the difference?

[Solefade]

Some things you just know not to be true despite what the numbers say , right?



That's called Eye Test sweetie. Use it wisely. :cheers:


clear eye test and eye test with kobe's jizz in your eyes...you'll see 2 totally different things :confusedshrug:

[Cold soul]

So do KAJ and Bird. :confusedshrug:

Both better than Lebron too.

Kobe is most polarizing athlete ever and one of most hated. His haters will continue to hate no matter the facts and evidence you have. Kareem only has 2 FMVP out of 6 rings, Bird 3 rings 2 FMVP no one will say a word about that unless it's Kobe it's ridiculous.

[Wade's Rings]

Kobe is most polarizing athlete ever and one of most hated. His haters will continue to hate no matter the facts and evidence you have. Kareem only has 2 FMVP out of 6 rings, Bird 3 rings 2 FMVP no one will say a word about that unless it's Kobe it's ridiculous.

You can argue Kareem getting robbed of the 1980 FMVP & Bird getting robbed of the 1981 FMVP.

There's no FMVPs you can argue in favor of Kobe.

[ISHGoat]

You can argue Kareem getting robbed of the 1980 FMVP & Bird getting robbed of the 1981 FMVP.

There's no FMVPs you can argue in favor of Kobe.

none in favor of him, but you can certainly argue his 2010 fmvp against him :oldlol:

[HOoopCityJones]

clear eye test and eye test with kobe's jizz in your eyes...you'll see 2 totally different things :confusedshrug:

Jizz? I don't even know what that white boy ass term means, I assume you're talking about nut, if that's the case than a fa9 like you would know what that's like wouldn't you cupcake? You probably been taking bricks to the face since uncle Johnny touched you in all the wrong places.

Laker fan first bitch don't get it twisted.

[HOoopCityJones]

Eye Test...Bias what's the difference?

The Eye test is undeniable.

You can't fabricate it to suit an agenda.

Unfortunately for stat fa9s that's exactly what you can do with metrics, so of course they love the shit out of them and treat em as the end all be all.

[Solefade]

Jizz? I don't even know what that white boy ass term means, I assume you're talking about nut, if that's the case than a fa9 like you would know what that's like wouldn't you cupcake? You probably been taking bricks to the face since uncle Johnny touched you in all the wrong places.

Laker fan first bitch don't get it twisted.


nah you're def a kobe stan quit pretending like you're not.

any objective basketball fan with a brain knows lebron > kobe

[AlphaWolf24]

You can argue Kareem getting robbed of the 1980 FMVP & Bird getting robbed of the 1981 FMVP.

There's no FMVPs you can argue in favor of Kobe.






so 24 year old Larry Bird scoring 8 points in back to back Finals games should have been FMVP?:lol

GTFO!..



- No one ever says anything about FMVP's when it comes to Bird or KAJ....or mentions their " stacked teams"....

- the simple fact you mentioned Bird in 81' after he nearly went full 11' Bron proves you have no basketball knowlege to fall back on.



next

[Wade's Rings]

so 24 year old Larry Bird scoring 8 points in back to back Finals games should have been FMVP?:lol

GTFO!..



- No one ever says anything about FMVP's when it comes to Bird or KAJ....or mentions their " stacked teams"....

- the simple fact you mentioned Bird in 81' after he nearly went full 11' Bron proves you have no basketball knowlege to fall back on.



next

Averaged 15 Rebounds, 7 assists, and 2 Steals for the series. He picked them apart with his passing and was grabbing a large amount of boards.

Was clutch down the stretch in multiple Games as well.

:ohwell: You tried

[Mr Feeny]

Kobe is most polarizing athlete ever and one of most hated. His haters will continue to hate no matter the facts and evidence you have. Kareem only has 2 FMVP out of 6 rings, Bird 3 rings 2 FMVP no one will say a word about that unless it's Kobe it's ridiculous.

Lebron is ten times more polarising. Kobe is irrelevant and has been for the past couple of years.
As far as Kareem and Bird go, they happen to both be better players than Kobe, do that's that.

[Cold soul]

Lebron is ten times more polarising. Kobe is irrelevant and has been for the past couple of years.
As far as Kareem and Bird go, they happen to both be better players than Kobe, do that's that.

No not really but whatever. Bird and Kobe are close career wise and as players Kobe and Bird are interchangeable same tier.

[Lebron23]

Lebron is better than Both Bird and Kobe. And if he wins an NBA title over a stacked Golden State Warriors team. I put him at top 3-5 this season.

[AlphaWolf24]

Lebron is better than Both Bird and Kobe. And if he wins an NBA title over a stacked Golden State Warriors team. I put him at top 3-5 this season.


what if he loses again?

[ShawkFactory]

Jizz? I don't even know what that white boy ass term means, I assume you're talking about nut, if that's the case than a fa9 like you would know what that's like wouldn't you cupcake? You probably been taking bricks to the face since uncle Johnny touched you in all the wrong places.

Laker fan first bitch don't get it twisted.
You don't know what jizz means?

[Dro]

Kobe was NEVER the GOAT but as player he's right there with greats as Magic, Bird, Duncan, Hakeem 2nd/3rd tier he is mad underrated here. Kobe a lot better than your giving him credit for people forget the past and overrate the present with no context, but then again that's sports fans for you.
No, Kobe is NOT on Magic, Bird's, Duncan's tier. He's NOT. Hakeem, sure? That's the 2nd/3rd tier...Not sure where I'm underrating him. I said he's not as good as Magic, Bird, Duncan, Shaq, and Lebron....Not counting Wilt, etc...I said he's better than EVERYBODY else basically, yet that's still not enough for you Kobe fans...Yet, WE'RE the ones not putting stuff in context. I guess....:confusedshrug:

[Dro]

that's the whole point...to debate some aspects of "Basketball"....I'm sure there were tons of fans who said TMAC was better then Kobe and Shaq from 2001 - 2003...

( although most TMAC stans have given up on that notion over time)

you brought up Snaq being labeled ( by some) as the best player from 2000 - 2006

I thoroughly blew up that argument.....as Snaq was no where near the same player after 2003, meanwhile Kobe was playing at a top shelf level from 01 - 10' as I have proven time and time again. all NBA /all NBA defense

I like to hear people's opinions and agree or disagree ( mostly disagree) and debate some aspects...
and I do agree with some opinions...like Snaq said...Kobe is the GOAT Laker....I agree....although I always understand the Debate...kind of.

He must be a stan?
Shaq said Kobe was the GOAT Laker. He also said he's the most dominant player ever. Kobe also said and I quote, "Shaq is the best player in the world" after one of their championship runs. Do you think Kobe actually believes Shaq is better than him? Do you actually believe him? If so, I have some land in Death Valley I'd like to sell you. Athletes say things all the time depending on the situation, it doesn't mean they actually feel that way.

I would not at all consider Shaq the best player in the league after the 03 season. But I wouldn't call Kobe the best either. I'd give it to Duncan. And again, all this talk about context. Duncan is getting sh*tted on just because he didn't put up 30 ppg but his impact goes way beyond that, it goes way beyond Kobe's. :confusedshrug:

[Dro]

Kobe is most polarizing athlete ever and one of most hated. His haters will continue to hate no matter the facts and evidence you have. Kareem only has 2 FMVP out of 6 rings, Bird 3 rings 2 FMVP no one will say a word about that unless it's Kobe it's ridiculous.
Nobody with a brain gives 2 damns about FMVP's..Billups has one also. Anybody can have a good Finals and get that award. Doesn't mean they're the best player in the league or even on their own team for that matter. When Ginobili won it, was he the best player? Of course not, its always been Duncan's team for the most part and we know who's responsible for most of his teammates success, not to take anything from Ginobili but the Spurs have had interchangeable parts around Duncan his entire career and he's still the catalyst, they're always in the hunt..That's impact. Same with Lebron, no matter who's around him, they'll get relatively far in the playoffs.

[HOoopCityJones]

You don't know what jizz means?

Nah , I just defined it literally after for kicks.

[Ne 1]

You can argue Kareem getting robbed of the 1980 FMVP & Bird getting robbed of the 1981 FMVP.

There's no FMVPs you can argue in favor of Kobe.
FMVP = irrelevant. Plenty of non elite players have won it. Look at his production throughout the post season, especially in 2001 and 2002 are on par with or better than some "#1 option rings."

[Cold soul]

No, Kobe is NOT on Magic, Bird's, Duncan's tier. He's NOT. Hakeem, sure? That's the 2nd/3rd tier...Not sure where I'm underrating him. I said he's not as good as Magic, Bird, Duncan, Shaq, and Lebron....Not counting Wilt, etc...I said he's better than EVERYBODY else basically, yet that's still not enough for you Kobe fans...Yet, WE'RE the ones not putting stuff in context. I guess....:confusedshrug:

We can agree to disagree here which is fine. I'll take views on HOF players, coaches, GM's, that have actually played at highest level over random nobody on the internet yes that includes me also for example John Woodson said Kobe is greatest player he's ever seen play basketball and this man was around the game his whole life. Phil said Kobe was on MJ level along with Pat Riley do I agree hell no but please don't act like it's an insult to say Kobe is as good as some of those guys you listed above.

[AlphaWolf24]

Shaq said Kobe was the GOAT Laker. He also said he's the most dominant player ever. Kobe also said and I quote, "Shaq is the best player in the world" after one of their championship runs. Do you think Kobe actually believes Shaq is better than him? Do you actually believe him? If so, I have some land in Death Valley I'd like to sell you. Athletes say things all the time depending on the situation, it doesn't mean they actually feel that way.

I would not at all consider Shaq the best player in the league after the 03 season. But I wouldn't call Kobe the best either. I'd give it to Duncan. And again, all this talk about context. Duncan is getting sh*tted on just because he didn't put up 30 ppg but his impact goes way beyond that, it goes way beyond Kobe's. :confusedshrug:

it wasn't only Shaq..it was Magic Johnson and Jerry west....

I don't recall Kobe ever saying Shaq was the best...he may have said he's" Dominating like Wilt Chamberlain"

I absolutely recall Shaq saying Kobe was the best player in the NBA in 2001 after the Spurs series....as did Phil Jackson..


"I've always held the bar up very high for Kobe and he's not only reached that bar, but he's jumping over the top of it right now," Phil Jackson said. "It's the best that I've seen a player of mine play with an overall court game."


open yo eyes....and ears

[Dro]

it wasn't only Shaq..it was Magic Johnson and Jerry west....

I don't recall Kobe ever saying Shaq was the best...he may have said he's" Dominating like Wilt Chamberlain"

I absolutely recall Shaq saying Kobe was the best player in the NBA in 2001 after the Spurs series....as did Phil Jackson..






open yo eyes....and ears
Yes, Kobe did say that. Its on one of my NBA highlight tapes, I think the NBA Live 2000 Video series with Kevin Garnett. They have a segment dedicated to the Lakers, can't remember what song though, at the end, Shaq and Kobe are sitting there in the locker room, holding the trophies and he says,, "Shaq, the most dominant player in the world". And my point is, again, do you really think Kobe believes that in his heart? I don't.

[24-Inch_Chrome]

Duncan > Shaq > LeBron > Kobe.

[HOoopCityJones]

Duncan > Shaq > LeBron > Kobe.

You keep telling yourself that.

[T_L_P]

03' Kobe definatley has an argument......he was 3rd in MVP Voting coming off of 3 straight titles and all nba 1rst team everything.

06' - 10' he was 1rst team all everything and went to 3straight Finals,and or was the leagues most powerful offensive weapon.

only Michael Jordan did it better for a longer period of time....repeat, no other player during Kobe's era was better or more consistent at both ends of the floor.

Regarding 03...

Kobe had slightly better raw stats in the Regular Season (42.3 to Duncan's 41.6).

Duncan had the higher Regular Season PER, TS%, WS, WS/48. Box +/-, Net Rating. Had a higher ORtg and his DRtg was like 10 points lower (Duncan was on another planet defensively, despite your kenneth-inspired point about Kobe making 1st Team).

03 Playoffs...

Duncan had much better raw stats (46.0 to Kobe's 40.2), and he absolutely demolishes him in the advanced numbers. 28.4 PER to Kobe's 22.2 (that's worse than Duncan's career average :oldlol:). .577 TS% to Kobe's .531. .279 WS/48 (the 3rd highest ever for a title run) to Kobe's .131 (in his 18 year career, Duncan's had a WS/48 in the Playoffs below .131 just three times). 11.6 Box +/- (2nd highest ever for a title run) to Kobe's 2.3 (in his 18 year career, Duncan's had a Box +/- in the Playoffs below 2.3 just three times).

How about the season-long RAPM?

http://stats-for-the-nba.appspot.com/ratings/2003.html

Duncan ranks #1 with a 10.3.
Kobe ranks #14 with a 4.6

Stop kidding yourself. Kobe has an almost non-existent case for 03 and you know it. Duncan had one of the 5 best Playoff runs in NBA history, lead his team to a title as the primary scorer, playmaker, leader and defensive anchor. Beats Kobe in every number you could think of, and he clearly has the edge in non-statistical areas (mainly his defense, which destroys Kobe's).

So no, Kobe doesn't have an argument in 03 for being the best player in the league. When the whole team was healthy, Kobe wasn't even the best player on his own team (as we saw in the Playoffs).

[24-Inch_Chrome]

You keep telling yourself that.

Truth is the truth. :confusedshrug:

[Combat Wombat]

Lebron is better than Both Bird and Kobe. And if he wins an NBA title over a stacked Golden State Warriors team. I put him at top 3-5 this season.

:facepalm

You are so fcuking cringeworthy. You said the same shit last year about the Heat and the Spurs. How'd that work out for you, dwarf? Oh that's right, it didn't and you became a Cavs "fan" AGAIN.

You're 27, live with your parents in the Philippines and follow Lebron like a teenage girl follows Justin Beiber. Have a little self-respect, ****.

You're a fcuking stain on the human race and if you had any decency, you'd cut your 1 inch c0ck off and feed it to vermin. They'd have more use for it than you.

[SexSymbol]

Kobe > Duncan > Shaq > LeBron.
It's that simple.
Kobe has had to play against the most superior competition of any player ever, he demolished Duncan in POs, he has more rings than both Shaq and LeBron.
LeBron doesn't have an argument over any of these three guys, he played against by far the weakest competition out of any of them, and achieved by far the least.

[SexSymbol]

Regarding 03...

Kobe had slightly better raw stats in the Regular Season (42.3 to Duncan's 41.6).

Duncan had the higher Regular Season PER, TS%, WS, WS/48. Box +/-, Net Rating. Had a higher ORtg and his DRtg was like 10 points lower (Duncan was on another planet defensively, despite your kenneth-inspired point about Kobe making 1st Team).

03 Playoffs...

Duncan had much better raw stats (46.0 to Kobe's 40.2), and he absolutely demolishes him in the advanced numbers. 28.4 PER to Kobe's 22.2 (that's worse than Duncan's career average :oldlol:). .577 TS% to Kobe's .531. .279 WS/48 (the 3rd highest ever for a title run) to Kobe's .131 (in his 18 year career, Duncan's had a WS/48 in the Playoffs below .131 just three times). 11.6 Box +/- (2nd highest ever for a title run) to Kobe's 2.3 (in his 18 year career, Duncan's had a Box +/- in the Playoffs below 2.3 just three times).

How about the season-long RAPM?

http://stats-for-the-nba.appspot.com/ratings/2003.html

Duncan ranks #1 with a 10.3.
Kobe ranks #14 with a 4.6

Stop kidding yourself. Kobe has an almost non-existent case for 03 and you know it. Duncan had one of the 5 best Playoff runs in NBA history, lead his team to a title as the primary scorer, playmaker, leader and defensive anchor. Beats Kobe in every number you could think of, and he clearly has the edge in non-statistical areas (mainly his defense, which destroys Kobe's).

So no, Kobe doesn't have an argument in 03 for being the best player in the league. When the whole team was healthy, Kobe wasn't even the best player on his own team (as we saw in the Playoffs).
Yeah, Duncan was the best player in the league in 03, but using advanced metrics to prove that... weak, shows you aren't really interested in basketball that much.

[Nash]

Kobe > Duncan > Shaq > LeBron.
It's that simple.
Kobe has had to play against the most superior competition of any player ever, he demolished Duncan in POs, he has more rings than both Shaq and LeBron.
LeBron doesn't have an argument over any of these three guys, he played against by far the weakest competition out of any of them, and achieved by far the least.
:roll: :roll:

denial is real.

[SexSymbol]

:roll: :roll:

denial is real.
Post from your real account dude, why do you have two, pauk?
I made a thread going into detail of why Kobe was the best player in the 06-10 era. You should go there and try to argue it, but all you can say is denial and u mad and rent free, because you're a logic-less stan, who can't see the light even if it's focking you in the missionary position like all the fakkots you fock on your downtime from acting as a straight guy to your parents who never wanted you to be born and from acting straight to your boss, in a clothes cleaning company, where you mostly wipe c u m stains off a middle-aged men boxers with your tongue.
Now if you excuse me, I'm gonna buy a cheap ass mic and drop it.

[Nash]

Post from your real account dude, why do you have two, pauk?
I made a thread going into detail of why Kobe was the best player in the 06-10 era. You should go there and try to argue it, but all you can say is denial and u mad and rent free, because you're a logic-less stan, who can't see the light even if it's focking you in the missionary position like all the fakkots you fock on your downtime from acting as a straight guy to your parents who never wanted you to be born and from acting straight to your boss, in a clothes cleaning company, where you mostly wipe c u m stains off a middle-aged men boxers with your tongue.
Now if you excuse me, I'm gonna buy a cheap ass mic and drop it.
the denial is the fact that you're using BS logic to downplay the player lebron is. Using oponents as some kind of measure to point out how lebron is lesser than those guys while totally neglecting relevant stats.
Lebron is better scorer, more efficient, better playmaker, more dominant, more mvp's yet you're basing your opinion on.....other teams?

to highlight the difference, kobe scores 35points and not much more, lebron scores the 35 points but also manages to squueze in 10 assists and 10 rebounds.

what besides sidekick rings makes kobe better? i'll give you as much time as you need to answer..

[sd3035]

not really, Lebald is currently behing Durant, Curry, and Davis

He was the best a few years ago though

[AlphaWolf24]

Yes, Kobe did say that. Its on one of my NBA highlight tapes, I think the NBA Live 2000 Video series with Kevin Garnett. They have a segment dedicated to the Lakers, can't remember what song though, at the end, Shaq and Kobe are sitting there in the locker room, holding the trophies and he says,, "Shaq, the most dominant player in the world". And my point is, again, do you really think Kobe believes that in his heart? I don't.


Shaq was absolutely the most dominant during his 99 - 02' stretch....much like Moses Malone in the mid 80's was the most dominating force in the paint

I always stated he reminded me so much of Moses Malone , especially in PHILA with Dr.J...



So I totally understand where Kobe's high Basketball I.Q mind is coming from....

and I repeat...it wasn't only Shaq..it was Magic Johnson and Jerry west....who all said Kobe is the GOAT Laker....

[SexSymbol]

the denial is the fact that you're using BS logic to downplay the player lebron is. Using oponents as some kind of measure to point out how lebron is lesser than those guys while totally neglecting relevant stats.
Lebron is better scorer, more efficient, better playmaker, more dominant, more mvp's yet you're basing your opinion on.....other teams?

to highlight the difference, kobe scores 35points and not much more, lebron scores the 35 points but also manages to squueze in 10 assists and 10 rebounds.

what besides sidekick rings makes kobe better? i'll give you as much time as you need to answer..
Doesn't make him or his team better one bit. It pads the statsheet, sure, but how should the other guys feel when one guy is doing everything? At least in Kobe's teams there's enough assists to spread throughout the team, enough rebounds for everybody.
Being a master at one thing is better than being jack of all trades in basketball, and history has proven this time and time and time again. Besides, it's not as if Kobe is a slouch all-around, he's one of the best all-around players ever.

regarding the second bolding, Kobe won 2,5 times more rings against 3-4 times harder competition and even played great and closed out teams LeBron failed to show up against (ORL 09, BOS 10). He's also a greater man defender in his prime years, a better scorer by a pretty wide margin, better leader and makes his teammates better

[red1]

yes. it is also worth adding that lbj>kobe by a wide margin