who will be the player of the decade for the 2010's

[kennethgriffin]

2011 - rose mvp/ dirk title
2012 - lockout
2013 - lebron mvp/ray allen title
2014 - durant mvp/kawhi leonard title
2015 - curry mvp/curry title
2016 - davis/curry mvp/ curry title
2017 - lockout
2018 - davis,curry,cousins mvp/davis title
2019 - davis,couins mvp/ davis title
2020 - wiggins,davis mvp/davis title





1960's - russell
1970's - kareem
1980's - magic
1990's - jordan
2000's - kobe ( tnt, dime, SI, slam POTD awards so stfu lmao )
2010's - Brow/curry/bron?



which one will it be




http://www.peoples.ru/sport/basketball/bill_russel/russell_55.jpeg

http://img.spokeo.com/public/900-600/kareem_abdul_jabbar_1971_04_01.jpg

http://cp91279.biography.com/1000509261001/1000509261001_1432190081001_Bio-Biography-Magic-Johnson-SF.jpg


https://prijemni.infostud.com/sta_su_studirali_poznati/files/fakultet_431/michael-jordan.jpg


https://cdn3.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/qp9tDCYhVirWbt8Tb6-VkqH5g_U=/184x0:4557x3280/400x300/cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/45229928/460255510.0.jpg





whos next?

[Lebron23]

How can you be player of the decade with only 1 MVP, and only 2 finals MVP?? Sidekick rings doesn't count.

[ISHGoat]

terrible thread

2000s was duncans era
2010s is lebron

[kamil]

One could argue 80s are both Magic and Bird.

[LEFT4DEAD]

Sorry, but Lebron is already lock for that. And put Duncan instead of Kobe and its all right. :cheers:

[Velocirap31]

Player of decade for 2000's is Shaq or Duncan. Lebron has 2010's unless he doesn't do anything after this year.

[Lebron23]

terrible thread

2000s was duncans era
2010s is lebron


This is the correct answer.

[Lebron23]

One could argue 80s are both Magic and Bird.

Magic won more titles than Bird, and more Finals MVP. The double standard in this forum is sickening.

[ShawkFactory]

Damn. It's like your posting is in quicksand.

At least TRY to conceal the trolling :lol

You're a couple threads away from becoming GOATbe

[Mawly-G]

This can arguably be seen as the LeBron era. Especially if he wins another title in Cleveland.

[ShawkFactory]

Magic won more titles than Bird, and more Finals MVP. The double standard in this forum is sickening.
So? Bird also started sustaining injuries right as Magic was peaking.

[kennethgriffin]

How can you be player of the decade with only 1 MVP, and only 2 finals MVP?? Sidekick rings doesn't count.


i dunno.. ask tnt, dime, slam, s.i


its not like anyone dominated the mvps in the 2000's


duncan 2 ( with 3 titles and 2 fmvps )
nash 2 ( with 0 titles )
lebron 2 ( with 0 titles )
kobe 1 ( with 4 titles and 2 fmvps )
dirk 1 ( with 0 titles )
iverson 1 ( with 0 titles
garnett 1 ( with 0 titles




kobe with the nod in 1st team all nba's, 1st team all defenses, allstar starts, 30,40,50,60,80 point games

kobe also claimed a gold medal in 2008. duncan choked 2004

kobe 4-1 vs duncan in the playoffs during the decade


i guess kobe has all the awards for a reason

[KG215]

Pretty obviously LeBron.

[Lebron23]

i dunno.. ask tnt, dime, slam, s.i


its not like anyone dominated the mvps in the 2000's


duncan 2 ( with 3 titles and 2 fmvps )
nash 2 ( with 0 titles )
lebron 2 ( with 0 titles )
kobe 1 ( with 4 titles and 2 fmvps )
dirk 1 ( with 0 titles )
iverson 1 ( with 0 titles
garnett 1 ( with 0 titles




kobe with the nod in 1st team all nba's, 1st team all defenses, allstar starts, 30,40,50,60,80 point games

kobe also claimed a gold medal in 2008. duncan choked 2004

kobe 4-1 vs duncan in the playoffs during the decade


i guess kobe has all the awards for a reason


Tim Duncan - 3x NBA Finals MVP, 2x NBA MVP, Never missed the playoffs during his prime, Won multiple NBA titles with different supporting casts, He was the no.1 option since day 1.

[kamil]

Magic won more titles than Bird, and more Finals MVP. The double standard in this forum is sickening.

There's no double standard here. You're just salty because LeBron* isn't a player of the decade.... or top 3, or top 5, and maybe even top 10.

Take this L.

[HOoopCityJones]

Ni99as shook.

[Lebron23]

There's no double standard here. You're just salty because LeBron* isn't a player of the decade.... or top 3, or top 5, and maybe even top 10.

Take this L.


You are an idiot. LeBron > Bird. Go Kill yourself @$$wipe.

[r15mohd]

i dunno.. ask tnt, dime, slam, s.i


its not like anyone dominated the mvps in the 2000's


duncan 2 ( with 3 titles and 2 fmvps )
nash 2 ( with 0 titles )
lebron 2 ( with 0 titles )
kobe 1 ( with 4 titles and 2 fmvps )
dirk 1 ( with 0 titles )
iverson 1 ( with 0 titles
garnett 1 ( with 0 titles




kobe with the nod in 1st team all nba's, 1st team all defenses, allstar starts, 30,40,50,60,80 point games

kobe also claimed a gold medal in 2008. duncan choked 2004

kobe 4-1 vs duncan in the playoffs during the decade


i guess kobe has all the awards for a reason

for the 2000s
1 Duncan
2 Shaq
3 Kobe

ironic how you omitted the diesel :rolleyes:

[kennethgriffin]

Player of decade for 2000's is Shaq or Duncan. Lebron has 2010's unless he doesn't do anything after this year.


lol wut

2001 - 2010


kobe = 4 titles, 2 fmvps, 1 mvp, 8 1st team all nba, 8 1st team all defense, 4 asg mvps
duncan = 3 titles, 2 fmvps, 2 mvps, 6 1st team all nba, 6 1st team all defense, 0 asg mvp
shaq = 3 titles, 2 fmvps, 0 mvps, 6 1st team all nba, 0 first team all defense 1 asg mvps



kobe + 1 gold medal ( final game mvp )

duncan = 0 gold medals

shaq = 0 olympics



and kobe won all the potd awards


how are people arguing this

:roll:

[kennethgriffin]

for the 2000s
1 Duncan
2 Shaq
3 Kobe

ironic how you omitted the diesel :rolleyes:

shaq didnt win an mvp during the decade

:lol

there is no year 0... the 1st year of a decade is 1

[kennethgriffin]

One could argue 80s are both Magic and Bird.


7 finals, 4 titles, 2 fmvps, 3mvps

vs 5 finals, 3 titles, 2 fmvps, 3 mvps


its close... but magic has the edge from 1981-1990

[Ca$H]

I think it will be Curry.

[kennethgriffin]

I think it will be Curry.


him or the brow are good choices. theyre both gonna run this league for the next 5 years... pelicans just keep getting better

[fragokota]

I'd give '80's to both Magic/Bird. 2000s would be Duncan/Shaq and to a lesser extend Kobe. We're already halfway through the '10s and unless Curry(or KD) does somehow end up winning multiple rings the next couple of years, then it's Lebron's decade.

[Lebron23]

Pretty obviously LeBron.


Should have locked this thread after this posts.

[r15mohd]

shaq didnt win an mvp during the decade

:lol

there is no year 0... the 1st year of a decade is 1


:wtf: when did I indicate he won an mvp, or that the 2000s began in 2000? :facepalm

Shaq was the most dominant player in world for the beginning half of the 2000s, and even to the ending of the 90s. TD basically picked up where Shaq left off, then Kobe had a brief stint as the decade ended.

TD gets the nod since he's been dominant and consistent right through, and has the hardware to prove it

[KG215]

him or the brow are good choices. theyre both gonna run this league for the next 5 years... pelicans just keep getting better
If Durant stays healthy and they can maintain their core + Kanter, then OKC will likely win a championship at some point and Durant will likely win another MVP or two.

[ShawkFactory]

shaq didnt win an mvp during the decade

:lol

there is no year 0... the 1st year of a decade is 1
Is the first year of a baby's life omitted when discussing the first decade its been alive? Is it just non-existent until its first birthday?

:rockon:

[kamil]

You are an idiot. LeBron > Bird. Go Kill yourself @$$wipe.

LOL @ propping up asterisk guy.

[kennethgriffin]

I'd give '80's to both Magic/Bird. 2000s would be Duncan/Shaq and to a lesser extend Kobe. We're already halfway through the '10s and unless Curry(or KD) does somehow end up winning multiple rings the next couple of years, then it's Lebron's decade.



the people just throwing around shaq or duncans names should give reasons for their choices


atleast i provide facts


kobe = 4 titles, 2 fmvps, 1 mvp, 8 1st team all nba, 8 1st team all defense, 4 asg mvps, 1 gold medal
duncan = 3 titles, 2 fmvps, 2 mvps, 6 1st team all nba, 6 1st team all defense, 0 asg mvp, 0 gold medals
shaq = 3 titles, 2 fmvps, 0 mvps, 6 1st team all nba, 0 first team all defense 1 asg mvps, 0 gold medals



kobe decade average = 29/6/5
duncan decade average = 21/11/3
shaq decade average = 21/10/2



kobe =

tnt player of the decade
dime magazine player of the decade
slam magazine player of the decade
sports illustrated next 10 player of the decade

[kennethgriffin]

Is the first year of a baby's life omitted when discussing the first decade its been alive? Is it just non-existent until its first birthday?

:rockon:


youre pretty dumb huh?

a babies life after 12 months = 1 years old

the first year of the first decade after 12 months = 2 years old


different measurements of time

[kennethgriffin]

:wtf: when did I indicate he won an mvp, or that the 2000s began in 2000? :facepalm

Shaq was the most dominant player in world for the beginning half of the 2000s, and even to the ending of the 90s. TD basically picked up where Shaq left off, then Kobe had a brief stint as the decade ended.

TD gets the nod since he's been dominant and consistent right through, and has the hardware to prove it


shaqs career is mainly mid 90's to mid 00's... he doesnt stand a chance in this debate

look at the facts i posted

[HomieWeMajor]

Everyone knows that the decade starts after the second year which comes after the first one but not before the last one.

[kennethgriffin]

Everyone knows that the decade starts after the second year which comes after the first one but not before the last one.

the decade starts in the first year

1-10

when you count. do you start with the number 0

lmfao

0 is used as an indicator of series of 10's or to indicate nothing

how can a year be nothing

it has to be the 10th year




if you go to a market and i tell you to pick out 5 apples

do you pick 5 and go

0 apple
1 apples
2 apples
3 apples
4 apples


thats 5! lol

[ShawkFactory]

youre pretty dumb huh?

a babies life after 12 months = 1 years old

the first year of the first decade after 12 months = 2 years old


different measurements of time
Why start the decade after 12 months? The first decade of its life includes the first 12 months.

Just like the 2000s decade started at 12:00 AM, January 1st, 2000. How does it make more sense that 2010 is part of the 2000s and not the 2010s? :roll:

You're too easy boy. Arguing with you is like taking the most satisfying shit ever.

[Spurs5Rings2014]

People don't get his agenda yet? He's omitting 2000 because Shaq, but more importantly because if he doesn't omit 2000, he has to omit 2010 for Kobe, which it should be omitted because when you say the '10's clearly, 2010 would be a part of that, so in reality Kobe only won 1 FMVP in the '00's.

Another thing that supports this is when people say the 60's, 70's, 80's, 90's, etc of course they include 1960, 1970, 1980, 1990, etc. It's 1960-1969, 1970-1979, 1980-1989, 1990-1999, etc.

For instance, if you omit the first year from every decade then Magic's first title and FMVP would be void, so he would have only 4 titles to Bird's 3 and same number of FMVP. Also, if you do it Kenneth's way, that means it would be 1961-1970 for Russell, 1971-1980 for Kareem, 1981-1990 for Magic, 1991-1999 for Jordan, etc.

It's just illogical and agenda driven. Don't let him get away with this. It's wrong, arbitrary (like water), irrational, idiotic and biased. This level of delusional trolling should not be tolerated, my friends. Stand with me as one, ISH, so that we may rid the board of this fool's nonsensical propaganda and blatant misinformation. Together we shall crush this insignificant insect for once and for all.

I promise you.

[kennethgriffin]

Why start the decade after 12 months? The first decade of its life includes the first 12 months.

Just like the 2000s decade started at 12:00 AM, January 1st, 2000. How does it make more sense that 2010 is part of the 2000s and not the 2010s? :roll:

You're too easy boy. Arguing with you is like taking the most satisfying shit ever.

the decade started january 1st, 2001


there was no year 0 on our calendar



the first year was 1... then 12 months later they celebrated year 2

[kennethgriffin]

People don't get his agenda yet? He's omitting 2000 because Shaq, but more importantly because if he doesn't omit 2000, he has to omit 2010 for Kobe, which it should be omitted because when you say the '10's clearly, 2010 would be a part of that, so in reality Kobe only won 1 FMVP in the '00's.

Another thing that supports this is when people say the 60's, 70's, 80's, 90's, etc of course they include 1960, 1970, 1980, 1990, etc. It's 1960-1969, 1970-1979, 1980-1989, 1990-1999, etc.

For instance, if you omit the first year from every decade then Magic's first title and FMVP would be void, so he would have only 4 titles to Bird's 3 and same number of FMVP. Also, if you do it Kenneth's way, that means it would be 1961-1970 for Russell, 1971-1980 for Kareem, 1981-1990 for Magic, 1991-1999 for Jordan, etc.

It's just illogical and agenda driven. Don't let him get away with this. It's wrong, arbitrary (like water), irrational, idiotic and biased. This level of delusional trolling should not be tolerated, my friends. Stand with me as one, ISH, so that we may rid the board of this fool's nonsensical propaganda and blatant misinformation. Together we shall crush this insignificant insect for once and for all.

I promise you.


what does the number 10 signify


go back to school






lets count... time for pre school class for iSH tards




1 banana

2 bananas

3 bananas

4 bananas

5 bananas




not

0 banana

1 banana

2 banana

3 banana

4 banana


when we count things. we start with 1

lol ... 0 is an indicator of NOTHING or UNITS OF 10

[HomieWeMajor]

the decade started january 1st, 2001


there was no year 0 on our calendar



the first year was 1... then 12 months later they celebrated year 2
Can you confirm what date this millennium started ?
I need the answer for my homework

[ShawkFactory]

the decade started january 1st, 2001


there was no year 0 on our calendar



the first year was 1... then 12 months later they celebrated year 2
Holy shit.

You can't make this stuff up :roll:

[Spurs5Rings2014]

what does the number 10 signify


go back to school

If you count an extra year/move the decade over 1 year for Kobe, you can do the same for Duncan, can you not?

4 titles, 3 FMVP, 2 MVP's > 5 titles, 2 FMVP's, 1 MVP.

[ISHGoat]

op is dumb as **** lmao you guys shouldnt bother with him, just ignore and move on

1970 is now incluced in the '60s?
2000 is included in the 90s? LOL

hahahaha

[oarabbus]

the decade started january 1st, 2001


there was no year 0 on our calendar



the first year was 1... then 12 months later they celebrated year 2




The 80s were 1980-1989.
The 90s were 1990-1989.
The 00s were 2000-2009.
The 2010s are 2010 - 2019.

Someone born in 1960 is not a "50s baby".

Sorry bubblegum, cute topic though.

[HomieWeMajor]

Kenny's making mad dough for Jeff I gotta admit. :bowdown:

[kennethgriffin]

op is dumb as **** lmao you guys shouldnt bother with him, just ignore and move on

1970 is now incluced in the '60s?
2000 is included in the 90s? LOL

hahahaha


1 to 10 = 10

11 to 20 = 10

21 to 30 = 10

31 to 40 = 10

41 to 50 = 10

51 to 60 = 10

61 to 70 = 10


how could 1901 and 1910 be in the same decade.? my gosh... maybe because the 10th year is an indicator of 10. not the beginning of the next series of numbers


unless the first decade in every century stops at 9 lmfao


http://www.timeanddate.com/counters/mil2000.html









The difference between the Millennium and year 2000

Short explanation
The 3rd Millennium starts January 1st, year 2001 NOT year 2000 as many people believe, when using the Gregorian calendar.

Longer explanation
The reason why the 3rd Millennium / 21st Century starts in 2001 is because there was no year 0 (or AD 0, 0 BC). The year before 1 A.D. is defined as year 1 B.C., so year 0 was skipped. (See below. Therefore, January 1st, year 1 is defined to be the start of the 1st century and the 1st Millennium.
Because one Millennium is 1000 years, the first Millennium ends with year 1000. The next (2nd) Millennium starts 1000 years after the first, that is in year 1+1000 = 1001. And the 3rd one starts 1000 years later than the 2nd: 1001+1000 = 2001. The same procedure could be followed for centuries. See the tables below for more information.

[kennethgriffin]

The 80s were 1980-1989.
The 90s were 1990-1989.
The 00s were 2000-2009.
The 2010s are 2010 - 2019.

Someone born in 1960 is not a "50s baby".

Sorry bubblegum, cute topic though.


theres more than just historical evidence on my side


theres also the fact that the nba season overlapse 2 separate calendar years every season


a 1960's player would be a 1959-1960 player

get it?



so there is no year 0. and theres the overlapping decade ontop



imagine if the nba started in 1905


the 1909-1910 title would be considered part of the decade i'm sure

[DMAVS41]

1 to 10 = 10

11 to 20 = 10

21 to 30 = 10

31 to 40 = 10

41 to 50 = 10

51 to 60 = 10

61 to 70 = 10


how could 1901 and 1910 be in the same decade.? my gosh... maybe because the 10th year is an indicator of 10. not the beginning of the next series of numbers


unless the first decade in every century stops at 9 lmfao


http://www.timeanddate.com/counters/mil2000.html


When someone says the 90's

They are not referring to the year 2000.

The 2000's for basketball purposes was 00 through 09

And the 10's will be 2010 through 2019


Also...regardless of how you break it down. Kobe was not the best player of the 00's. ****...even on your scale I'd still probably take Lebron over Kobe even with Lebron not playing until 04.

[ShawkFactory]

theres more than just historical evidence on my side


theres also the fact that the nba season overlapse 2 separate calendar years every season


a 1960's player would be a 1959-1960 player

get it?



so there is no year 0. and theres the overlapping decade ontop
:lol

Which would make Shaq in 1999-2000 a 2000s player. And would make you look like a dumbass.

[DMAVS41]

theres more than just historical evidence on my side


theres also the fact that the nba season overlapse 2 separate calendar years every season


a 1960's player would be a 1959-1960 player

get it?



so there is no year 0. and theres the overlapping decade ontop



imagine if the nba started in 1905


the 1909-1910 title would be considered part of the decade i'm sure


Moron...that makes the 99-00 season...also known as the 00 season...count for the 00's.

:facepalm

[kennethgriffin]

:lol

Which would make Shaq in 1999-2000 a 2000s player. And would make you look like a dumbass.


99-2000

is the same as

09-10

[DMAVS41]

99-2000

is the same as

09-10


yep.

99-00 is part of the 00's...not the 90's

just like 09-10 is part of the 10's...not the 00's

[oarabbus]

theres more than just historical evidence on my side


theres also the fact that the nba season overlapse 2 separate calendar years every season


a 1960's player would be a 1959-1960 player

get it?



so there is no year 0. and theres the overlapping decade ontop



imagine if the nba started in 1905


the 1909-1910 title would be considered part of the decade i'm sure


Regardless, Duncan and Shaq are both better than Kobe; he's not player of the decade.

[kennethgriffin]

http://www.timeanddate.com/counters/mil2000.html


people need to read this and educate themselves


who the f*ck starts counting with 0


since when has 0 ever represented anything over than the 10th in a series

it never represents the 1st in a series


2000 is part of the first 2000 of something. the next 2000 of something would go from 2001 to 4000

[clipps]

Player of the Decade is too vague. It should be bi-decade or something

2000-2004: Shaq
2004-2008: Duncan
2008-2010: Kobe
2011-current: Lebron with Curry/Davis/Griffin about to take the torch

[kennethgriffin]

Regardless, Duncan and Shaq are both better than Kobe; he's not player of the decade.


but he was

:lol


he won all the decade awards

s.i/slam/dime = the same people who vote for league mvps





:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[DMAVS41]

http://www.timeanddate.com/counters/mil2000.html


people need to read this and educate themselves


who the f*ck starts counting with 0


since when has 0 ever represented anything over than the 10th in a series

it never represents the 1st in a series


2000 is part of the first 2000 of something. the next 2000 of something would go from 2001 to 4000




you just got done saying that a player in the 59-60 season would be part of the 60's decade.

so count with me please:

59-60....1
60-61....2
61-62....3
62-63...4
63-64....5
64-65....6
65-66....7
66-67....8
67-68....9
68-69.....10

That is the decade on your own criteria.

[Keno]

duncan early 00's, lebron late 00's and 2010s.

[oarabbus]

but he was

:lol


he won all the decade awards

s.i/slam/dime = the same people who vote for league mvps





:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:


Kirby < Bran < Duncan/Shaq

:roll: :roll:

[ShawkFactory]

99-2000

is the same as

09-10
So do you use both years an make the decade 11 years? Or do you use the general cutoff time, that being the calendar that the season ended.

[livinglegend]

you just got done saying that a player in the 59-60 season would be part of the 60's decade.

so count with me please:

59-60....1
60-61....2
61-62....3
62-63...4
63-64....5
64-65....6
65-66....7
66-67....8
67-68....9
68-69.....10

That is the decade on your own criteria.

Oh god!
Op is so dumb. :lol :lol
I'm bookmarking this thread to laugh everytime i'm down.

[kennethgriffin]

Player of the Decade is too vague. It should be bi-decade or something

2000-2004: Shaq
2004-2008: Duncan
2008-2010: Kobe
2011-current: Lebron with Curry/Davis/Griffin about to take the torch



lmmfao@ duncan being a better player than 2006,2007,2008 kobe bryant


so parker was better than duncan in 2007 and 2008. but duncan was still better than kobe? lmfao




i'd say shaq was the best for the first 2 years ( 01,02 )

duncan took over ( 03,04,05 )

then kobe took ( 06,07,08,09,10 )

[DMAVS41]

lmmfao@ duncan being a better player than 2006,2007,2008 kobe bryant


so parker was better than duncan in 2007 and 2008. but duncan was still better than kobe? lmfao




i'd say shaq was the best for the first 2 years ( 01,02 )

duncan took over ( 03,04,05 )

then kobe took ( 06,07,08,09,10 )


I'd definitely take 06 and 07 Duncan over Kobe.

Better in the regular season and playoffs both years....

But 81 points OMG....GAWDBE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Duncan had a better rapm, considerably better in 07, and played better in the playoffs and led his team better both years.

You didn't see Duncan quitting in the 2nd half of a game 7.

[ISHGoat]

So do you use both years an make the decade 11 years? Or do you use the general cutoff time, that being the calendar that the season ended.

you use whichever one that favors kobe and his retarded agenda

cant wait for bron to win this year and for this fukboi to leave this forum

[kennethgriffin]

i'l say it again


2000 is part of the first 2000 of something. the next 2000 of something would go from 2001 to 4000

[dubeta]

How can you be player of the decade with only 1 MVP, and only 2 finals MVP?? Sidekick rings doesn't count.

Slayed on the first post lol :oldlol:

[DMAVS41]

i'l say it again


2000 is part of the first 2000 of something. the next 2000 of something would go from 2001 to 4000

hey moron.

on your own criteria...09-10 is not part of the 00's.

That is how ****ing stupid you are.

[ISHGoat]

hey moron.

on your own criteria...09-10 is not part of the 00's.

That is how ****ing stupid you are.


it is if kobe won a fmvp doe :roll:

kenneth is lowkey jeff or jeff's brother, he brings a lot of traffic and people keep responding to his retarded posts

[dubeta]

The 2000's ended in 2009

Kobe won 4 rings and 1 FMVP in that span

Shaq won 4 rings and 3 FMVPs, plus much more dominant peak



How is Kobe even in the debate?? :lol

[DMAVS41]

The 2000's ended in 2009

Kobe won 4 rings and 1 FMVP in that span

Shaq won 4 rings and 3 FMVPs, plus much more dominant peak



How is Kobe even in the debate?? :lol

He's not.

The sad reality is that Kobe is at best...the 4th best player since MJ retired. And even then I'm not sure as his career has been so inflated by the 3 titles early on with Shaq.

[aj1987]

LeBron and it's not even close. From '06 TBH.

OP can whine all he wants, but he can't change the FACTS.

'00-'02 Shaq
'04 - WOAT Finals performance
'08-'10 - Stacked AF, after whining and crying like a little girl.

[kennethgriffin]

I'd definitely take 06 and 07 Duncan over Kobe.



http://alamocitytimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Tony-Finals-MVP.jpg



lol wut


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liIYL7YcePI

duncans coach during 2006 said kobe > duncan


:lol


kobes 2 year average from 2006 and 2007

= 34ppg, 6reb, 5ast

duncan 2 year average from 2006 and 2007

= 19ppg, 11reb, 3ast




:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:


duncan = 2006 all nba 2nd team, 2006 all defensive 2nd team
kobe = 2006 all nba 1st team, 2006 all defensive 1st team

:roll:




Kobe > parker > duncan

[dubeta]

He's not.

The sad reality is that Kobe is at best...the 4th best player since MJ retired. And even then I'm not sure as his career has been so inflated by the 3 titles early on with Shaq.


Agreed


Lol it sucks for Kobe stans, their entire NBA existence right now is watching player after player surpass Kobe

Soon he'll drop to like the 7-8th best player since MJ (wiggins, durant - maybe, Davis, towns)


Kobe may damn well be completely forgotten in the next 5 years :lol

[ShawkFactory]

http://alamocitytimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Tony-Finals-MVP.jpg



lol wut


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liIYL7YcePI

duncans coach during 2006 said kobe > duncan


:lol


kobes 2 year average from 2006 and 2007

= 34ppg, 6reb, 5ast

duncan 2 year average from 2006 and 2007

= 19ppg, 11reb, 3ast




:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:


duncan = 2006 all nba 2nd team, 2006 all defensive 2nd team
kobe = 2006 all nba 1st team, 2006 all defensive 1st team

:roll:




Kobe > parker > duncan
But Shaq > Kobe from 00-02 quite easily.

[kennethgriffin]

The 2000's ended in 2009

Kobe won 4 rings and 1 FMVP in that span

Shaq won 4 rings and 3 FMVPs, plus much more dominant peak



How is Kobe even in the debate?? :lol




you count the 1st of a series of 5 things as 0 to 4

:oldlol:

[DMAVS41]

http://alamocitytimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Tony-Finals-MVP.jpg



lol wut


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liIYL7YcePI

duncans coach during 2006 said kobe > duncan


:lol


kobes 2 year average from 2006 and 2007

= 34ppg, 6reb, 5ast

duncan 2 year average from 2006 and 2007

= 19ppg, 11reb, 3ast




:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:


duncan = 2006 all nba 2nd team, 2006 all defensive 2nd team
kobe = 2006 all nba 1st team, 2006 all defensive 1st team

:roll:




Kobe > parker > duncan


Again.

Better regular season and playoff performer those years.

Keep posting pictures.

I wonder why Duncan had a better RAPM both years in question. Could it be that you don't know good basketball? Or is it biased against Kobe? Hmmmmmmm...which one makes the most sense.

But again...you don't even know how to count to 10.

[DMAVS41]

you count the 1st of a series of 5 things as 0 to 4

:oldlol:


was 59-60 part of the 50's or 60's?

[kennethgriffin]

Again.

Better regular season and playoff performer those years.

Keep posting pictures.

I wonder why Duncan had a better RAPM both years in question. Could it be that you don't know good basketball? Or is it biased against Kobe? Hmmmmmmm...which one makes the most sense.

But again...you don't even know how to count to 10.



you dont get the nod as the better player just by making it farther.. you also have to be in the debate with the best players overall


duncan wasnt even the best player on his own team after 2006

[kennethgriffin]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liIYL7YcePI


and again...

[kennethgriffin]

was 59-60 part of the 50's or 60's?


60 is the 10th of a series of numbers


it isnt the 11th


1 is the beginning of the next series of numbers


how can 0 be the 1st number

:roll:



5 apples = 0 to 4?

[dh144498]

Kobe is a great player, top 50 all time. But the 2000's belong to Duncan or Shaq.

[kennethgriffin]

But Shaq > Kobe from 00-02 quite easily.


maybe in 2000


but in 2001 and 2002 it was pretty close


kobe = 28/6/5 season, 29/7/6 playoffs ( leader in scoring first 3 rounds with 33/7/6 )

[DMAVS41]

60 is the 10th of a series of numbers


it isnt the 11th


1 is the beginning of the next series of numbers


how can 0 be the 1st number

:roll:



5 apples = 0 to 4?

you just got done saying that a player that played in the 59-60 season played in the 60's...not the 50's.

So unless you are referring to a new decade that is 11 years...you aren't making sense based on your own criteria.

[SCdac]

Kobe stans on ISH are reaching new levels of insecurity and fandom every day :oldlol:

[ShawkFactory]

60 is the 10th of a series of numbers


it isnt the 11th


1 is the beginning of the next series of numbers


how can 0 be the 1st number

:roll:



5 apples = 0 to 4?Ever heard of linear vs nonlinear?

[kennethgriffin]

Kobe is a great player, top 50 all time. But the 2000's belong to Duncan or Shaq.


says who?


tnt, dime, s.i, slam voted on these things you know

[AlphaWolf24]

He's not.

The sad reality is that Kobe is at best...the 4th best player since MJ retired. And even then I'm not sure as his career has been so inflated by the 3 titles early on with Shaq.


reality.....


Magic, Shaq , West all have said Kobe is the GOAT Laker.



reality...

Kobe was Voted the GOAT player of the decade ( 2000's) by prolly the biggest basketball media outlet.


reality ...

Dirk ( the guy on the Mavs) said Kobe is the GOAT player of the decade...

reality ...

Dirk has 1 fluke title...fluke because he is more consistent and has proven himself to fizzle out of the playoffs with loaded teams.....way more often!...then not.

[DMAVS41]

you dont get the nod as the better player just by making it farther.. you also have to be in the debate with the best players overall


duncan wasnt even the best player on his own team after 2006

he was for me.

I had Dirk and Duncan as the two best players during that whole year. Had Wade even with Kobe most of the year as well.

Have to admit I didn't think Wade was as good as he proved.

in the debate? Duncan was.

again, go back and look at all the numbers. it's not just advancing farther or having a better team.

Duncan had a bigger impact in the regular season and playoffs...and his team did better. What more do you want?

[aj1987]

maybe in 2000


but in 2001 and 2002 it was pretty close


kobe = 28/6/5 season, 29/7/6 playoffs ( leader in scoring first 3 rounds with 33/7/6 )
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

Shaq was basically 3 times the player that Kobe ever was. We can't compare a top 5 GOAT (Shaq) to a borderline top 10 GOAT (Kobe).

[kennethgriffin]

Sporting News NBA Athlete of the Decade (2000s)[95]



TNT NBA Player of the Decade (2000s)[96]




Sports Illustrated Top 20 Male Athlete of the Decade (2000s) #7 (the only NBA player in the top 10)[98]



Ranked #1 in Dime Magazine's 2012 list of the top 10 greatest players since the year 2000 (published in the September 2012 issue)[100]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_career_achievements_by_Kobe_Bryant









WOOPS


:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[ArbitraryWater]

kenneth once again going against all logic by saying 2010 belongs to the 2000's..

[kennethgriffin]

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

Shaq was basically 3 times the player that Kobe ever was. We can't compare a top 5 GOAT (Shaq) to a borderline top 10 GOAT (Kobe).



not according to facts


maybe in your own mind


in reality their scoring was separated by decimals

in reality kobe was the leading playmaker/assist man

in reality kobe had the higher defensive accolades

in reality it was a 2 man team more often than not.

[ShawkFactory]

maybe in 2000


but in 2001 and 2002 it was pretty close


kobe = 28/6/5 season, 29/7/6 playoffs ( leader in scoring first 3 rounds with 33/7/6 )
But Shaq won the FMVPs, this clearly establishing him as better. At least that's how you argue Parker as better than Duncan in 2007.

[AlphaWolf24]

added...


Dirks fluke title..
fluke - unlikely chance occurrence, especially a surprising piece of luck.

considering Dirk's history....if not for Lebron putting up the biggest disappearing act in Finals history....Dirk would have fizzled out again.

[kennethgriffin]

kenneth once again going against all logic by saying 2010 belongs to the 2000's..


its illogical to count a series of 10 as 0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9


10 bananas = 0-9?

there was no year zero on our calendar


do some history research bud

[kennethgriffin]

But Shaq won the FMVPs, this clearly establishing him as better. At least that's how you argue Parker as better than Duncan in 2007.


the finals was in the west... when kobe dominated...


the fmvps shaq won were against tod macchoullaweee or whatever his name was


:lol

[AlphaWolf24]

But Shaq won the FMVPs, this clearly establishing him as better. At least that's how you argue Parker as better than Duncan in 2007.


http://images4.fanpop.com/image/user_images/2173000/AlphaWolf-2173769_596_800.jpg

22 year old Kobe already on Shaq's level or above....:banana:

[KNOW1EDGE]

LeBron James.

Unless Curry wins an MVP and 5 straight rings....

[dh144498]

Kobe is a great player, top 50 all time. But the 2000's belong to Duncan or Shaq.

[ShawkFactory]

the finals was in the west... when kobe dominated...


the fmvps shaq won were against tod macchoullaweee or whatever his name was


:lol
But the finals for the spurs was the actual finals, where they swept?

[Alamо]

I'm impressed. Trolls come and go


But OP has been making garbage threads for 6 straight years :applause:

[kennethgriffin]

Kobe is a great player, top 50 all time. But the 2000's belong to Duncan or Shaq.


anyone spamming this without actual substance/stats/performances/awards should be banned


its not even contributing to the debate

no one cares about a personal opinion. unless it can be used to educate others


how is just saying something a bunch of times informing people of anything

youre just being a spammer

[ShawkFactory]

its illogical to count a series of 10 as 0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9


10 bananas = 0-9?

there was no year zero on our calendar


do some history research bud
Ever heard of linear vs nonlinear?

[the_troof]

i dunno.. ask tnt, dime, slam, s.i


its not like anyone dominated the mvps in the 2000's


duncan 2 ( with 3 titles and 2 fmvps )
nash 2 ( with 0 titles )
lebron 2 ( with 0 titles )
kobe 1 ( with 4 titles and 2 fmvps )
dirk 1 ( with 0 titles )
iverson 1 ( with 0 titles
garnett 1 ( with 0 titles




kobe with the nod in 1st team all nba's, 1st team all defenses, allstar starts, 30,40,50,60,80 point games

kobe also claimed a gold medal in 2008. duncan choked 2004

kobe 4-1 vs duncan in the playoffs during the decade


i guess kobe has all the awards for a reasongarnett had a title in the 2000s..

[DMAVS41]

garnett had a title in the 2000s..

Don't be so sure.

He's more than capable of saying 2008 was not in the decade.

[tmacattack33]

:lol

[aj1987]

not according to facts


maybe in your own mind


in reality their scoring was separated by decimals

in reality kobe was the leading playmaker/assist man

in reality kobe had the higher defensive accolades

in reality it was a 2 man team more often than not.
Dude literally was gifted ~7 of those All-Def team nominations. :roll: :roll: :roll:

:oldlol: @ Kobe being 1st team All-D for 9 years. WOAT. We've got MUCH better defenders who haven't had that many.

The guys career was basically handed to him on a silver platter. Playing with a top 5 GOAT since coming into the league, bitching and crying like a little girl when he had bad teams for two year, etc..

Shaq >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kobe, BTW. It's like comparing a Zonda to a freaking M3.

[kennethgriffin]

Dude literally was gifted ~7 of those All-Def team nominations. :roll: :roll: :roll:

:oldlol: @ Kobe being 1st team All-D for 9 years. WOAT. We've got MUCH better defenders who haven't had that many.

The guys career was basically handed to him on a silver platter. Playing with a top 5 GOAT since coming into the league, bitching and crying like a little girl when he had bad teams for two year, etc..

Shaq >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kobe, BTW. It's like comparing a Zonda to a freaking M3.


Yeah eh... kobe was gifted them

Its all just a popularity contest


Which is why lebron made 1st team all defense this year




Wait... he didnt? Surely he must have atleast been 2nd team all defense?

















..... he wasnt?




Oh























Take an L

[aj1987]

Yeah eh... kobe was gifted them

Its all just a popularity contest

Which is why lebron made 1st team all defense this year

Wait... he didnt? Surely he must have atleast been 2nd team all defense?

..... he wasnt?

Oh

Take an L
You think he deserved first teams in '00, '04, '06, '09, '10, and '11?

:roll: @ Kobe making 2nd team in '12.

griffmoneyx1984, you need to go back to stanning KG or VC.

[TiagoSimoes]

Ranked #1 in Dime Magazine's 2012 list of the top 10 greatest players since the year 2000

i wonder why they started in the year 2000

[Inferno]

LeBron > Kobe.

[Spurs5Rings2014]

Dude says in the title the 2010's then proceeds to count Kobe's 2010 chip for the 2000's.

:roll: :roll:

[aj1987]

LeBron > Kobe.
Curry >>>>>>>>>> CP3.

[i<3basketball]

Curry >>>>>>>>>> CP3.

how? because he had 1 better year which makes it eligible for you to say Curry is better than CP3?

[AlphaWolf24]

You think he deserved first teams in '00, '04, '06, '09, '10, and '11?

:roll: @ Kobe making 2nd team in '12.

griffmoneyx1984, you need to go back to stanning KG or VC.


WTF....2010 was the first year his lateral movement really declined..

but early 00's???...seriously?....Kobe was a premiere defensive player..

( prolly arguing with someone born in 2005)

[Chadwin]

KD or Curry

[K Xerxes]

8 pages on such a pointless argument. Who cares if the decade started a year earlier or a year later; 'player of the decade' is so stupidly arbitrary. Why is Kobe credited with his prime essentially aligning to 2000-2010, while Shaq's was 1995-2005 because he was born earlier, and LeBron's is 2005-2015 because he was born later. What does it matter. Dominance is dominance regardless of the time period it came in.

[aj1987]

WTF....2010 was the first year his lateral movement really declined..

but early 00's???...seriously?....Kobe was a premiere defensive player..

( prolly arguing with someone born in 2005)
'00, he was VERY good defensively, but he wasn't first team level
'04, meh. This was an off season for him. He wasn't Kobe.
'06, too much effort on the offensive end. He was elite, but in spurts.
'09, same story as '06 but with a bit of decreased mobility.

I'm assuming that you just read Kobe fan boards base your opinions off of that?

Dude was a GREAT perimeter defender, but not even close to being a 9x All-D First team defender. If we're going by how Kobe go it, Wade should've been 1st team in '05, '06, '08, '09, '10, '11, and '12. MJ throughout his entire career (minus the Wiz years).

[Inferno]

Curry >>>>>>>>>> CP3.

:confusedshrug:

[KG215]

2011-current: Lebron with Curry/Davis/Griffin about to take the torch
Or, you know, that Durant guy who's younger than one of those three players and only a few months older than another one of those players.

[TheMarkMadsen]

'00, he was VERY good defensively, but he wasn't first team level
'04, meh. This was an off season for him. He wasn't Kobe.
'06, too much effort on the offensive end. He was elite, but in spurts.
'09, same story as '06 but with a bit of decreased mobility.

I'm assuming that you just read Kobe fan boards base your opinions off of that?

Dude was a GREAT perimeter defender, but not even close to being a 9x All-D First team defender. If we're going by how Kobe go it, Wade should've been 1st team in '05, '06, '08, '09, '10, '11, and '12. MJ throughout his entire career (minus the Wiz years).

holy shit Wade plays 50 games and you think he should have been all d first team :roll:

and Kobe didn't even take Wade's spots in 05, 06... Kobe wasn't even on an all d team in 05 and Wade still only made 2nd team.. in 06 Wade wasn't even on the 2nd team..

how is Kobe stealing those selections when there is a second team, and Wade can't even make that either :facepalm

[TheMarkMadsen]

you haters and your entire premise for why Kobe has all these selections doesn't even make sense... you says he gets these due to media hype..

yet lebron didn't get selected until 2009..

6 years into his career..

i guess lebron just didn't have enough media hype??

:rolleyes: :hammerhead:

[ShawkFactory]

you haters and your entire premise for why Kobe has all these selections doesn't even make sense... you says he gets these due to media hype..

yet lebron didn't get selected until 2009..

6 years into his career..

i guess lebron just didn't have enough media hype??

:rolleyes: :hammerhead:
He didn't. Because he wasn't the defensive player that Kobe was early in his career.

[KG215]

8 pages on such a pointless argument. Who cares if the decade started a year earlier or a year later; 'player of the decade' is so stupidly arbitrary. Why is Kobe credited with his prime essentially aligning to 2000-2010, while Shaq's was 1995-2005 because he was born earlier, and LeBron's is 2005-2015 because he was born later. What does it matter. Dominance is dominance regardless of the time period it came in.
Pretty much this. It's beyond stupid to try and deem one player the "Player of the Decade" and box them into an actual decade in line with what we think of as an actual decade (60's, 70's, 80's, etc.). Athletic careers and primes and peaks almost never fit neatly in one ten year period starting in year 0 or year 1.

Well, unless you want to try and prop up a player over others because his career/prime did fit more neatly in a 1990-1999 or 2001-2010 window. Of course it's pretty clear that's exactly what Griff is doing so, as usual, his thread should be taken with a giant grain of salt.

[34-24 Footwork]

Lebron has normalized losing in the Finals so much that people find other ways to celebrate him. Lol

[DMAVS41]

WTF....2010 was the first year his lateral movement really declined..

but early 00's???...seriously?....Kobe was a premiere defensive player..

( prolly arguing with someone born in 2005)

Except virtually all the actual data tells us that Kobe was absolutely not a premiere defender from 02 forward.

Why does Kobe grade out so poorly defensively vs other elite defenders? Do you really think it's just biased against Kobe?

Take 06 for example.

Kobe had a -1.2 defensive RAPM
Artest had a 3.5 defensive RAPM
Wade had a 1.5 defensive RAPM

Those awards just don't mean much when we are talking about what actually was happening on the basketball court.

[oarabbus]

how? because he had 1 better year which makes it eligible for you to say Curry is better than CP3?


Curry: Better shooter. More alpha. Not a choker. Going to the finals.

CP3: 2nd round exit



Anyway LeBran "bran muffin" James > Kobe
Duncan > Kobe
Shaq > Kobe
Bird > Kobe
Jordan > Kobe
Kareem > Kobe
Russell > Kobe

[NZStreetBaller]

Its lebron.... the only way it wont be is if durant makes the next 5 finals and wins atleast 2 titles

[oarabbus]

Its lebron.... the only way it wont be is if durant makes the next 5 finals and wins atleast 2 titles


Kobe > Durant
bran > Kobe
Duncan > Kobe
Shaq > Kobe
Bird > Kobe
Jordan > Kobe
Kareem > Kobe
Russell > Kobe

[kennethgriffin]

Except virtually all the actual data tells us that Kobe was absolutely not a premiere defender from 02 forward.

Why does Kobe grade out so poorly defensively vs other elite defenders? Do you really think it's just biased against Kobe?

Take 06 for example.

Kobe had a -1.2 defensive RAPM
Artest had a 3.5 defensive RAPM
Wade had a 1.5 defensive RAPM

Those awards just don't mean much when we are talking about what actually was happening on the basketball court.


analytics are for geeks that never picked up a basketball


they say russell isnt a top 50 player all time

they say tmac and chris paul are top 10 players ever

they also say kobe was more valuable than shaq in 2001


even i know kobe was at best a co-lead

[K Xerxes]

even i know kobe was at best a co-lead

At worst and at best Kobe was the second best player on the 3peat Lakers team, including 2001.

[DMAVS41]

analytics are for geeks that never picked up a basketball


they say russell isnt a top 50 player all time

they say tmac and chris paul are top 10 players ever

they also say kobe was more valuable than shaq in 2001


even i know kobe was at best a co-lead


they don't "say" any of that.

they simply give you objective data on certain things.

it's on you if you think rapm=best player or PER=best player.

they are good tools for weeding through subjective nonsense like Kobe being an elite defender in the years in question.

what they aren't good for is for making broad statements using one metric. not sure why people can't figure this out.

you would never post only ft% like it told you who the best player was. yet people think PER or RAPM should function differently. they don't...they are more broad, but one number will never be enough.

it's when you start looking at all the objective measures combined with results and impact...etc. then you can get a good grasp on this stuff.

but it is funny how they always seem to be biased against Kobe according to his fans.

I wonder what is more likely...virtually all advanced stats and efficiency stats and game winning stats are biased towards Kobe...

Or

He's not quite as good as his batshit crazy fans think he is...

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...wonder which one it is

[kennethgriffin]

they don't "say" any of that.

they simply give you objective data on certain things.

it's on you if you think rapm=best player or PER=best player.

they are good tools for weeding through subjective nonsense like Kobe being an elite defender in the years in question.

what they aren't good for is for making broad statements using one metric. not sure why people can't figure this out.

you would never post only ft% like it told you who the best player was. yet people think PER or RAPM should function differently. they don't...they are more broad, but one number will never be enough.

it's when you start looking at all the objective measures combined with results and impact...etc. then you can get a good grasp on this stuff.

but it is funny how they always seem to be biased against Kobe according to his fans.

I wonder what is more likely...virtually all advanced stats and efficiency stats and game winning stats are biased towards Kobe...

Or

He's not quite as good as his batshit crazy fans think he is...

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...wonder which one it is



1. Michael Jordan* 28.60
2. George Mikan* 28.51
3. LeBron James 27.47
4. Shaquille O'Neal 26.13
5. Hakeem Olajuwon* 25.69
6. Chris Paul 25.14
7. Tim Duncan 24.58
8. Kevin Durant 24.35
9. Charles Barkley* 24.18
10. Dirk Nowitzki 23.97
11. Tracy McGrady 23.40
12. Dolph Schayes* 23.29
13. Dwight Howard 23.11
14. Jerry West* 23.06
15. David Robinson* 23.02
16. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar* 23.01
17. Magic Johnson* 22.95
18. Russell Westbrook 22.75
19. Wilt Chamberlain* 22.75
20. Dwyane Wade 22.70
21. Bob Pettit* 22.59
22. Kobe Bryant 22.40
23. Amar'e Stoudemire 22.08
24. Julius Erving* 22.05
25. Blake Griffin 21.96
26. Elgin Baylor* 21.83
27. Rick Barry* 21.81
28. Moses Malone* 21.57
29. Larry Bird* 21.41
30. Baron Davis 21.36
31. Allen Iverson 21.24
32. George Gervin* 21.16
33. Karl Malone* 21.12
34. Kevin Garnett 21.12
35. Oscar Robertson* 20.99
36. James Harden 20.92
37. Bob Lanier* 20.81
38. Pau Gasol 20.72
39. George Yardley* 20.72
40. Cliff Hagan* 20.62
41. Shawn Kemp 20.55
42. Gus Williams 20.37
43. Artis Gilmore* 20.36
44. Paul Arizin* 20.33
45. Dan Issel* 20.07
46. Carmelo Anthony 19.94
47. Alex English* 19.92
48. Walter Davis 19.91
49. John Stockton* 19.84
50. Walt Frazier* 19.84
51. Steve Nash 19.84
52. Isiah Thomas* 19.80
53. Manu Ginobili 19.79
54. Anfernee Hardaway 19.76
55. George McGinnis 19.73
56. Clyde Lovellette* 19.72
57. Clyde Drexler* 19.71
58. Patrick Ewing* 19.63
59. Reggie Miller* 19.55
60. Bill Russell* 19.40


my bad... paul is top 10... tmac is top 11

:lol



http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/LAL/2001.html

2001 playoffs winshares - kobe 3.8
2001 playoffs winshares - shaq 3.7










Analytics!

[DMAVS41]

all that and you do exactly what I said they don't do in my thread.

might as well have just listed ft percentage.

it'd be the same thing without context and comparing like vs like...not to mention they don't even have full stats for some of the older players like Russell.

[ShawkFactory]

1. Michael Jordan* 28.60
2. George Mikan* 28.51
3. LeBron James 27.47
4. Shaquille O'Neal 26.13
5. Hakeem Olajuwon* 25.69
6. Chris Paul 25.14
7. Tim Duncan 24.58
8. Kevin Durant 24.35
9. Charles Barkley* 24.18
10. Dirk Nowitzki 23.97
11. Tracy McGrady 23.40
12. Dolph Schayes* 23.29
13. Dwight Howard 23.11
14. Jerry West* 23.06
15. David Robinson* 23.02
16. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar* 23.01
17. Magic Johnson* 22.95
18. Russell Westbrook 22.75
19. Wilt Chamberlain* 22.75
20. Dwyane Wade 22.70
21. Bob Pettit* 22.59
22. Kobe Bryant 22.40
23. Amar'e Stoudemire 22.08
24. Julius Erving* 22.05
25. Blake Griffin 21.96
26. Elgin Baylor* 21.83
27. Rick Barry* 21.81
28. Moses Malone* 21.57
29. Larry Bird* 21.41
30. Baron Davis 21.36
31. Allen Iverson 21.24
32. George Gervin* 21.16
33. Karl Malone* 21.12
34. Kevin Garnett 21.12
35. Oscar Robertson* 20.99
36. James Harden 20.92
37. Bob Lanier* 20.81
38. Pau Gasol 20.72
39. George Yardley* 20.72
40. Cliff Hagan* 20.62
41. Shawn Kemp 20.55
42. Gus Williams 20.37
43. Artis Gilmore* 20.36
44. Paul Arizin* 20.33
45. Dan Issel* 20.07
46. Carmelo Anthony 19.94
47. Alex English* 19.92
48. Walter Davis 19.91
49. John Stockton* 19.84
50. Walt Frazier* 19.84
51. Steve Nash 19.84
52. Isiah Thomas* 19.80
53. Manu Ginobili 19.79
54. Anfernee Hardaway 19.76
55. George McGinnis 19.73
56. Clyde Lovellette* 19.72
57. Clyde Drexler* 19.71
58. Patrick Ewing* 19.63
59. Reggie Miller* 19.55
60. Bill Russell* 19.40Conparing analytical data across eras is not the same as doing it in the same season.


my bad... paul is top 10... tmac is top 11

:lol



http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/LAL/2001.html

2001 playoffs winshares - kobe 3.8
2001 playoffs winshares - shaq 3.7










Analytics!Comparing analytical data across eras is not the same as doing it for certain players in the same season.

Kobe > Shaq in 2001
Pau > Kobe in 2010

[kennethgriffin]

Comparing analytical data across eras is not the same as doing it for certain players in the same season.

Kobe > Shaq in 2001
Pau > Kobe in 2010


who believes either of these


:roll: :roll: :roll:


analytics!

[ShawkFactory]

who believes either of these


:roll: :roll: :roll:


analytics!
Well...you and a lot of other Kobe Stans certainly believe the first one :lol

[kennethgriffin]

Well...you and a lot of other Kobe Stans certainly believe the first one :lol


well whether you go by kobe over shaq and pau over kobe... or shaq over kobe and kobe over pau.... either way its 1 full + 1 second man title


in the end.. with or without analytics kobes even

:oldlol:

[sd3035]

It's obviously down to Curry, Davis, or Durant

[ShawkFactory]

well whether you go by kobe over shaq and pau over kobe... or shaq over kobe and kobe over pau.... either way its 1 full + 1 second man title


in the end.. with or without analytics kobes even

:oldlol:
Nobody said it wasn't sparky

[T_L_P]

People don't get his agenda yet? He's omitting 2000 because Shaq, but more importantly because if he doesn't omit 2000, he has to omit 2010 for Kobe, which it should be omitted because when you say the '10's clearly, 2010 would be a part of that, so in reality Kobe only won 1 FMVP in the '00's.

Another thing that supports this is when people say the 60's, 70's, 80's, 90's, etc of course they include 1960, 1970, 1980, 1990, etc. It's 1960-1969, 1970-1979, 1980-1989, 1990-1999, etc.

For instance, if you omit the first year from every decade then Magic's first title and FMVP would be void, so he would have only 4 titles to Bird's 3 and same number of FMVP. Also, if you do it Kenneth's way, that means it would be 1961-1970 for Russell, 1971-1980 for Kareem, 1981-1990 for Magic, 1991-1999 for Jordan, etc.

It's just illogical and agenda driven. Don't let him get away with this. It's wrong, arbitrary (like water), irrational, idiotic and biased. This level of delusional trolling should not be tolerated, my friends. Stand with me as one, ISH, so that we may rid the board of this fool's nonsensical propaganda and blatant misinformation. Together we shall crush this insignificant insect for once and for all.

I promise you.

Rat poison.

[T_L_P]

LeBron and it's not even close. From '06 TBH.

OP can whine all he wants, but he can't change the FACTS.

'00-'02 Shaq
'04 - WOAT Finals performance
'08-'10 - Stacked AF, after whining and crying like a little girl.

LeBron wasn't the league's best in 07.

[Smoke117]

It's well past due time to ban Kenny for a month or two again.

[MJistheGOAT]

2000s Shaq/Duncan/Kobe
2010s Lebron/Curry/Davis (Durant without injury should be here)

[Cold soul]

2010's Lebron, 2000's Kobe and Duncan era both are above Shaq.

[imnew09]

As much as i hate to say this, Lebeta gon win 2010s

[ShawkFactory]

As much as i hate to say this, Lebeta gon win 2010s
Welcome to the dark side asshole

[clipps]

Or, you know, that Durant guy who's younger than one of those three players and only a few months older than another one of those players.

Oh yeah, that guy. Hope his foot doesn't fall off. Just sayin'

[dankok8]

Well in 2010's Lebron has 3 MVP's, 2 FMVP's, 2 titles, 5 finals appearances, 6 All-NBA 1st Team, 4 All-Defensive 1st Team. I sincerely doubt anybody beats him especially considering he probably has at least 2-3 more elite years.

[Prime_Shaq]

1960s = Russell
1970s = Kareem
1980s = Magic/Bird (MJ upcoming)
1990s = MJ
2000s = Shaq/Duncan (LeBron upcoming)
2010s = LeBron (AD upcoming)

[necya]

Magic won more titles than Bird, and more Finals MVP. The double standard in this forum is sickening.

:facepalm
Bird was the better player from day one to 86, was clear cut mvp in 84, 85, 86 and had mvp type season in 81, 82, 88...

[ISHGoat]

Kenneth getting bodied by posters left and right in his own thread. Even his fellow kobe stans and laker fans can be unbiased enough to disagree with him lol. Mods, can we please ban this stupid ****?

[Dro]

:facepalm
Bird was the better player from day one to 86, was clear cut mvp in 84, 85, 86 and had mvp type season in 81, 82, 88...
:biggums:

[Inferno]

Bran has Kenneth so shook he's devoted his entire time on this forum to making threads that indirectly and subtly attempt to prove that Kobe > Bran :lol

[HOoopCityJones]

Bran has Kenneth so shook he's devoted his entire time on this forum to making threads that indirectly and subtly attempt to prove that Kobe > Bran :lol

Lebron definitely has Kenneth shook, but for a guy 90% of the Forums try to pretend doesn't have a point , his threads go 10 or more pages.

From this we can say for certain Ken has ISH shook as fucc.

[dh144498]

Lebron definitely has Kenneth shook, but for a guy 90% of the Forums try to pretend doesn't have a point , his threads go 10 or more pages.

From this we can say for certain Ken has ISH shook as fucc.

lol this. You know OP actually got 'em shook when they post in here saying the OP is shook.

:lol

[AlphaWolf24]

Except virtually all the actual data tells us that Kobe was absolutely not a premiere defender from 02 forward.

Why does Kobe grade out so poorly defensively vs other elite defenders? Do you really think it's just biased against Kobe?

Take 06 for example.

Kobe had a -1.2 defensive RAPM
Artest had a 3.5 defensive RAPM
Wade had a 1.5 defensive RAPM

Those awards just don't mean much when we are talking about what actually was happening on the basketball court.

Using RAPM or xRAPM shows Nick Collison having a greater impact on the game then Steph Curry!!!


Nick Collison> Steph Curry

RAPM don't mean much ...watching the game understanding the game does.

players /coaches/GM's/smart fans like myself all recognize Kobe as one of the greatest defensive players ever....


http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view1/3806936/sesame-street-letter-l-o.gif


hold

[ISHGoat]

Using RAPM or xRAPM shows Nick Collison having a greater impact on the game then Steph Curry!!!


Nick Collison> Steph Curry

RAPM don't mean much ...watching the game understanding the game does.

players /coaches/GM's/smart fans like myself all recognize Kobe as one of the greatest defensive players ever....


http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view1/3806936/sesame-street-letter-l-o.gif


hold

no it doesnt u retard

[Rocketswin2013]

Kobe is absolutely not one of the greatest defenders ever.

[AlphaWolf24]

no it doesnt u retard


you right....but it's even worse then I thought.....

steph is only the 7th most impactful player.....while Nick Collison is the 20th most impactful player in the NBA!!!!!!

while playing half the possessions.... so in half the time Collison is impacting the game near Steph Curry!...imagine if Nick played more

#1 Andre Iguodala 0.8 5.5 6.3 5.9 1.5 6590
#7 Stephen Curry 3.6 0.7 4.3 4.5 1.9 8712
#20 Nick Collison 2.1 1.1 3.2 2.4 1.8 4082

I stand bye my statement....Collison>Curry according to advanced stats
__________________________________________________ ______

2 seasons ago....

Paul Millsap 2.0 3.4 5.4 8764.0
Kevin Love 3.2 2.1 5.3 2407.0
Tyson Chandler 0.9 4.4 5.3 8210.0
Chris Andersen 0.6 4.5 5.2 2432.0
James Harden 6.0 -0.9 5.1 12112.0
Mike Conley 3.1 2.0 5.1 10353.0
Amir Johnson 1.1 3.6 4.7 8506.0
Joakim Noah -0.3 4.9 4.6 9099.0
Roy Hibbert 0.3 4.3 4.6 8556.0
Omer Asik -0.8 5.4 4.5 9938.0

all above Curry who was ranked #20 4.7 -0.5 4.2 11983.0( the same rank Nick Collison is this past season!)


Collison > Curry!!!

[24-Inch_Chrome]

Kobe is absolutely not one of the greatest defenders ever.

This.

[ralph_i_el]

Kobr missing the playoffs in his own decade:roll:

[Inferno]

Lebron definitely has Kenneth shook, but for a guy 90% of the Forums try to pretend doesn't have a point , his threads go 10 or more pages.

From this we can say for certain Ken has ISH shook as fucc.

True. Kenny living rent free :lol

[AlphaWolf24]

Kobe is absolutely not one of the greatest defenders ever.


great insight way to back it up...

History, Players/coaches and GM all say otherwise...

GOAT bball mind Hubie Brown....you can watch the whole video if you want it has great insight - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMHyBqwCOYw&feature=youtu.be&t=192

Kobe's an alltime great defender - https://youtu.be/JMHyBqwCOYw?t=192




That's the best defense anyone has ever played on me ever- Brandon Jennings


Kobe's defense is on another level - coach K

Prime Kobe was one of the greatest perimeter/ defenders ever....Like Hubie said.

internet trolls who use made up advanced stats to discredit the GOAT player of the 2000's KB8/24.....i'll stick with eye tests/coaches/players and GOAT BBALL minds.

[Simple Jack]

Citing quotes or comments from other players as a basis for concluding anything is retarded. You can literally find hundreds of comments that go different ways on the same issue from former or current NBA players. How do you go about reconciling the fact that we can't question the expert's opinions, yet their opinions go both ways on a specific issue?

Ex-Player A says Player 1 is the best player in NBA history. We can't question that because he played in the NBA and knows more than anyone posting on an internet forum.

Ex-Player B says Player 2 is the best player in NBA history. We can't question that because he played in the NBA and knows more than anyone posting on an internet forum.

The two scenarios create a clear problem if you are using them as the sole basis for your conclusions.


On a side note, these topics are completely pointless. What separates 2000-2009 from 1999-2008? A 10 year period is a 10 year period. Making it a specific 10 year period is arbitrary.

[MEB2kDeez]

Kobe/Duncan for 2000s...

Shaq dominated 2000-2005 but that's only half.

Just my opinion though.

As for the original question, Curry and AD.

[aj1987]

players /coaches/GM's/smart fans like myself all recognize Kobe as one of the greatest defensive players ever....
You do realize that they do NOT actually vote, right? They hand it over to the interns and others. You actually believe that Kobe was a 12X All-D defender? :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

Dude at best was an elite defender for like 8 seasons. Even during those seasons, he did NOT deserve to be an All-D defender. The award actually lost all its credibility when Kobe kept winning it, when he basically played defense only during clutch moments for during stretches.

Also, First Team All-NBA in '09, '10, and '11? :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

You Kobe *** dumpsters can keep bringing up the MVP like it's a "given" award, but Kobe literally has the highest number of GIVEN awards in league history. Dude was GIFTED half of his career accolades.

[chazzy]

meltdown

[tpols]

meltdown

Seriously..:lol

[DMAVS41]

you right....but it's even worse then I thought.....

steph is only the 7th most impactful player.....while Nick Collison is the 20th most impactful player in the NBA!!!!!!

while playing half the possessions.... so in half the time Collison is impacting the game near Steph Curry!...imagine if Nick played more

#1 Andre Iguodala 0.8 5.5 6.3 5.9 1.5 6590
#7 Stephen Curry 3.6 0.7 4.3 4.5 1.9 8712
#20 Nick Collison 2.1 1.1 3.2 2.4 1.8 4082

I stand bye my statement....Collison>Curry according to advanced stats
__________________________________________________ ______

2 seasons ago....

Paul Millsap 2.0 3.4 5.4 8764.0
Kevin Love 3.2 2.1 5.3 2407.0
Tyson Chandler 0.9 4.4 5.3 8210.0
Chris Andersen 0.6 4.5 5.2 2432.0
James Harden 6.0 -0.9 5.1 12112.0
Mike Conley 3.1 2.0 5.1 10353.0
Amir Johnson 1.1 3.6 4.7 8506.0
Joakim Noah -0.3 4.9 4.6 9099.0
Roy Hibbert 0.3 4.3 4.6 8556.0
Omer Asik -0.8 5.4 4.5 9938.0

all above Curry who was ranked #20 4.7 -0.5 4.2 11983.0( the same rank Nick Collison is this past season!)


Collison > Curry!!!


I think you really need help. Not only do you fail to even grasp the concept of the number, but your posts are almost impossible to read without getting a headache.

[24-Inch_Chrome]

1990s: Jordan
2000s: Duncan
2010s: LeBron

[LEFT4DEAD]

this thread is too funny. is this guy really arguing that 2000 belongs to 90's and 2010 is not actually in 2010's but in 00's? :wtf: :lol

[comerb]

Duncan owned the 2000s, not Kobe.

[Prometheus]

No single player dominated the '00s.

'90s: Jordan
'00s: Shaq/Duncan/Kobe
'10s: LeBron (so far)

[dubeta]

No single player dominated the '00s.

'90s: Jordan
'00s: Shaq/Duncan/Kobe
'10s: LeBron (so far)

I'd argue that LeBron has the best claim for the 2000's as well

-Tied for the most MVP's

-Had the best stats of that era as well

[Prometheus]

I'd argue that LeBron has the best claim for the 2000's as well

-Tied for the most MVP's

-Had the best stats of that era as well

Eras are defined by their champions.

[dubeta]

Eras are defined by their champions.

So then why is Duncan in the debate, if kobe and shaq won more championships in the 2000's? :lol

The order is:

1) Stats

2) MVP's

3) Rings (tiebreaker only if the first 2 are even)


So 2000's LeBron

2010 LeBron though the Brow has a chance

[Prometheus]

So then why is Duncan in the debate?

- He won the year before the '00s began, so he entered them a champion.

- He was the best player on a team that won at least 50 games in all ten seasons of the '00s. Two of those were 60-win seasons. His squad entered the playoffs as a contender every single year.

- He was the best player on a team that won three rings over a span of five years in the middle of the decade.

...

Shaq was the most dominant player for the first half of the decade, but declined pretty rapidly to become less of a force in the latter half.

Kobe was a dominant player from '01 until '09, but spent the middle of the decade as a non-contender. He also won his first three rings as a sidekick (albeit probably the best sidekick... ever), and didn't win his fourth ring until '09, the last year of the decade.

...

Rings in the '00s:

Shaq - 4
Duncan - 3
Kobe - 4

Or if you want to count Kobe's '10 ring, you have to count Duncan's '99 ring. That would make it:

Shaq - 4
Duncan - 4
Kobe - 5

...

And you're telling me Duncan doesn't belong in the debate? He's the guy with the best case for #1.

[AlphaWolf24]

I think you really need help. Not only do you fail to even grasp the concept of the number, but your posts are almost impossible to read without getting a headache.


- I absolutely understand using snippets of games to hopefully try and use math to hopefully try and understand how a certain player impacts certain lineups..


- what I don't understand is how you and you're ( self admittedly) 3 brothers all sharing 1 computer spamming Kobe threads using flawed/make believe stats to try and discredit the GOAT player of the 2000's Kobe Bean Bryant's defense....???

- If you and yer Bro's want to debate Kobe's Defense then research the evidence and show us visual proof.....because this ( what you and yer alts/brothers) ...what you are doing.....is laughable....

and quite frankly...a little sad.....miggity math...:lol

[DMAVS41]

- I absolutely understand using snippets of games to hopefully try and use math to hopefully try and understand how a certain player impacts certain lineups..


- what I don't understand is how you and you're ( self admittedly) 3 brothers all sharing 1 computer spamming Kobe threads using flawed/make believe stats to try and discredit the GOAT player of the 2000's Kobe Bean Bryant's defense....???

- If you and yer Bro's want to debate Kobe's Defense then research the evidence and show us visual proof.....because this ( what you and yer alts/brothers) ...what you are doing.....is laughable....

and quite frankly...a little sad.....miggity math...:lol


I've done it all.

I've watched the player in question during that time period time and time again make little to no defensive impact.

Again, your problem is that you think everyone sees Kobe the same as you do. When I watched him...I thought great player...unreal scorer. Not a great teammate, too selfish, too concerned with a me against the world attitude rather than "us" against the world attitude. Saw him rest on defense repeatedly...etc.

Then now, now that we have at least solid objective measures to check to see if there is an imbalance between my personal take and the numbers...they happen to be pretty close here.

So I'm comfortable in my conclusion.

It's not make believe. What is make believe is Kobe making large defensive impacts or being a great game winning shot maker. Those are fictions...

Just take the L...

And you don't understand RAPM because you wouldn't compare Collison to Curry if you understood it at all. You are so ignorant that you actually think that somehow impacts the reliability of the metric, but again...only because you are ignorant.

Bury your head back in the sand and worship your God...just don't post here about it...and if you do...come with something of substance rather than talking about shit you are clueless on.

Take the L...please

[AlphaWolf24]

I've done it all.

I've watched the player in question during that time period time and time again make little to no defensive impact.

Again, your problem is that you think everyone sees Kobe the same as you do. When I watched him...I thought great player...unreal scorer. Not a great teammate, too selfish, too concerned with a me against the world attitude rather than "us" against the world attitude. Saw him rest on defense repeatedly...etc.

Then now, now that we have at least solid objective measures to check to see if there is an imbalance between my personal take and the numbers...they happen to be pretty close here.

So I'm comfortable in my conclusion.

It's not make believe. What is make believe is Kobe making large defensive impacts or being a great game winning shot maker. Those are fictions...

Just take the L...

And you don't understand RAPM because you wouldn't compare Collison to Curry if you understood it at all. You are so ignorant that you actually think that somehow impacts the reliability of the metric, but again...only because you are ignorant.

Bury your head back in the sand and worship your God...just don't post here about it...and if you do...come with something of substance rather than talking about shit you are clueless on.

Take the L...please


OK.....so I believe Kobe is one of the greatest allaround players / 2 way players ever......( I'm not the only one BTW...I do believe 99% of the basketball population agrees)....

but we are all really dumb because a new made up stat ( that shows Andre iguduala and Nick Collison having a greater or equal impact as Steph Curry)

why you telling me to take an L......tell the whole basketball community!!!!...GOAT LAKER?...Most all D teams?..not according to xrapm...it's really Tony Smith and Anthony Peeler!




When I watched him...I thought great player...unreal scorer. Not a great teammate, too selfish, too concerned with a me against the world attitude rather than "us" against the world attitude. Saw him rest on defense repeatedly...etc.

never played organized basketball....confirmed....

you saw Kobe "rest" repeatedly?...after 19 years I would hope so...



- I'm ignorant because I don't put much faith in a fly bye night stat , but instead watch actual games and play actual organized basketball????( to draw an opinion)....

- I stand bye my statements.....Kobe is one of the greatest 2 way players ever....one of the greatest defensive guards ever.....He can impact the game on every aspect." all 1rst team defense isn't proof....his reputation is ( also my knowledge and understanding too).


- Haven't seen yer brother Ginobli137 ( or whatever his username is) around for awhile.....did he ever get back from Spain?....

I miss his intelligent basketball conversation ......about how Kobe is really a very bad shooter who over dribbles all the time, if Kobe took 5 dribbles instead of 7 it would make him a more " efficient" because that's what the overdribbling stat showed.

[aj1987]

meltdown
Truth hurts, right?

[DMAVS41]

OK.....so I believe Kobe is one of the greatest allaround players / 2 way players ever......( I'm not the only one BTW...I do believe 99% of the basketball population agrees)....

but we are all really dumb because a new made up stat ( that shows Andre iguduala and Nick Collison having a greater or equal impact as Steph Curry)

why you telling me to take an L......tell the whole basketball community!!!!...GOAT LAKER?...Most all D teams?..not according to xrapm...it's really Tony Smith and Anthony Peeler!




never played organized basketball....confirmed....

you saw Kobe "rest" repeatedly?...after 19 years I would hope so...



- I'm ignorant because I don't put much faith in a fly bye night stat , but instead watch actual games and play actual organized basketball????( to draw an opinion)....

- I stand bye my statements.....Kobe is one of the greatest 2 way players ever....one of the greatest defensive guards ever.....He can impact the game on every aspect." all 1rst team defense isn't proof....his reputation is ( also my knowledge and understanding too).


- Haven't seen yer brother Ginobli137 ( or whatever his username is) around for awhile.....did he ever get back from Spain?....

I miss his intelligent basketball conversation ......about how Kobe is really a very bad shooter who over dribbles all the time, if Kobe took 5 dribbles instead of 7 it would make him a more " efficient" because that's what the overdribbling stat showed.




I have Kobe in the top 12 all time...so please stop the straw man argument.

My take is my own personal take. I'm sorry you don't like that it doesn't agree with yours. Your take is fine...I'm not the one claiming you are crazy for saying the things you do.

You are the one calling me crazy for not taking Kobe over certain time periods here.

You see the difference?

What is worse...I can back up my opinion with something other than some form of highly subjective analysis.

You honestly think it's hating to take guys like Duncan, Lebron, and Wade over Kobe during select time periods? Are you ****ing serious?

[AlphaWolf24]

I have Kobe in the top 12 all time...so please stop the straw man argument.

My take is my own personal take. I'm sorry you don't like that it doesn't agree with yours. Your take is fine...I'm not the one claiming you are crazy for saying the things you do.

You are the one calling me crazy for not taking Kobe over certain time periods here.

You see the difference?

What is worse...I can back up my opinion with something other than some form of highly subjective analysis.

You honestly think it's hating to take guys like Duncan, Lebron, and Wade over Kobe during select time periods? Are you ****ing serious?


So if I like the Movie "Star wars".....and Me and most people who watch it agree.....it's a great Movie.

but 20 years later some new website that studies movies says " Star Wars is actually a bad movie because the pacing is off and according to new statistical analysis ....it is .0005% too short and has too much poor dialogue"

this is exactly what you are doing....

everything is subjective...including flawed stats that show Iggy>Collison>Curry.....

- Star Wars is a great Movie.....despite it's sh!tty acting and sh!tty dialogue...more people agree with me so I win!

[ISHGoat]

so this thread has boiled down to retards arguing against advanced metrics because they are "magical made up formulas that dont support godbe"

good to know that kobe stans are retards

[ArbitraryWater]

Dirk is underrated in that he isn't given a mention...

I love the 'Kobe/Duncan/Shaq' trio, but I honestly believe Dirk has a chance too. Not accomplishments, but being at the top year-for-year...

Shaq is unlucky in that he bridged 90's-00's... from 1995-2004 he is the runaway best player of a 10-year period. Most other ATG's had their clear dominant decade, while LeBron right now is actually doing the impossible and dominating TWO seperate ones, ala Kareem.

I think Shaq fell off too hard in 2006, which again, is not his fault, he had 14 seasons on his back by then...

Kobe had clear/noticeable up and downs, dips in his career/prime... 2000-2013, but he also had a few down years in 2004, 2005, or unimpressive campaigns with 2000, 2002.

Duncan probably has the best case, now all-time, Dirk has been better than KG WAYYYY too long for KG to top him, tbh...

If we do KB/Timmy/Dirk year-for-year, I think Dirk matches KB/Timmy.

[AlphaWolf24]

Dirk is underrated in that he isn't given a mention...

I love the 'Kobe/Duncan/Shaq' trio, but I honestly believe Dirk has a chance too. Not accomplishments, but being at the top year-for-year...

Shaq is unlucky in that he bridged 90's-00's... from 1995-2004 he is the runaway best player of a 10-year period. Most other ATG's had their clear dominant decade, while LeBron right now is actually doing the impossible and dominating TWO seperate ones, ala Kareem.

I think Shaq fell off too hard in 2006, which again, is not his fault, he had 14 seasons on his back by then...

Kobe had clear/noticeable up and downs, dips in his career/prime... 2000-2013, but he also had a few down years in 2004, 2005, or unimpressive campaigns with 2000, 2002.

Duncan probably has the best case, now all-time, Dirk has been better than KG WAYYYY too long for KG to top him, tbh...

If we do KB/Timmy/Dirk year-for-year, I think Dirk matches KB/Timmy.


- only Kobe could make all NBA 1rst team/All 1rst team defense.....be top 5 in MVP voting , win a championship!!! and then have an internet troll 13 years later say it was "unimpressive"....oh and he played bad defense!

- did you here that everyone!.....Kobe was the best allaround player in the league, 1rst team all everything and won championship!...yet it was unimpressive because advanced Math says so!!!!

if only he didn't gamble so much on defense in 2002 maybe he could have had a higher RAPM! for his unimpressive season


yes Kobe "stans" are the retards...

[Straight_Ballin]

You are an idiot. LeBron > Bird. Go Kill yourself @$$wipe.

Most recent ISH top 10 vote had bron just sneaking into #10 spot. Nothing's changed since then so continue to cry yourself to sleep just like you did when the votes came in. Have fun with your minority opinion.

[ArbitraryWater]

- only Kobe could make all NBA 1rst team/All 1rst team defense.....be top 5 in MVP voting , win a championship!!! and then have an internet troll 13 years later say it was "unimpressive"....oh and he played bad defense!

- did you here that everyone!.....Kobe was the best allaround player in the league, 1rst team all everything and won championship!...yet it was unimpressive because advanced Math says so!!!!

if only he didn't gamble so much on defense in 2002 maybe he could have had a higher RAPM! for his unimpressive season


yes Kobe "stans" are the retards...

Kobe's evoloution/progression kind of stood still in 2002, no, it actually regressed.. was all upwards in 2001 and 2003.

[DMAVS41]

So if I like the Movie "Star wars".....and Me and most people who watch it agree.....it's a great Movie.

but 20 years later some new website that studies movies says " Star Wars is actually a bad movie because the pacing is off and according to new statistical analysis ....it is .0005% too short and has too much poor dialogue"

this is exactly what you are doing....

everything is subjective...including flawed stats that show Iggy>Collison>Curry.....

- Star Wars is a great Movie.....despite it's sh!tty acting and sh!tty dialogue...more people agree with me so I win!

Your analogy fails completely as usual.

Here is the flaw and straw man portion...please listen.

To follow your analogy (Kobe=Star Wars)...I'm not saying Star Wars isn't a great movie. I'm not saying Star Wars is actually a bad movie.

So that is your main issue. You equate someone saying Duncan is better than Kobe as someone saying Kobe sucks.

So lets follow this analogy through properly.

What I and others are saying:

Yea, Star Wars was great, but we think it might be a little over-rated in terms of actual substance. We aren't saying it isn't great and one of the best movies ever, but other movies like the Godfather, Godfather Par II, Pulp Fiction, and Schindler's list (to name some of my favorites)...were as good or better.

That is your failure. Dirk, Duncan, Shaq, KG, Wade, Lebron...etc. Those guys represent other all time great movies as well. And it's not hating to take them over Kobe at certain points.

It's a good analogy now because it should show you how stupid it would be to say something like:

"Empire Strikes Back is hands down better than Godfather Part II and Braveheart and Citizen Kane"

Just stupid. Just like it's stupid to say Kobe was hands down better than some of the above mentioned guys in the years in question.

[AlphaWolf24]

Kobe's evoloution/progression kind of stood still in 2001, no, it actually regressed.. was all upwards in 2001 and 2003.

No not really...Kobe is 02' was much more in a "facilitator role"...especially in the playoff's..He did everything...and really picked his spots offensively more then any season other then 05' and 09'

He was running the Triangle prolly at his best ever....FGA were slightly down but Lakers were really firing on all cylinders much of the season.

so either Kobe is Unselfish and he gets punished for not scoring 40 pts a game or he's too selfish:confusedshrug:

Honest questions..

A) How old are you

B) how many Laker games per season did you watch

C) how is 02' Kobe diffrent from 09' Kobe?

[AlphaWolf24]

Your analogy fails completely as usual.

Here is the flaw and straw man portion...please listen.

To follow your analogy (Kobe=Star Wars)...I'm not saying Star Wars isn't a great movie. I'm not saying Star Wars is actually a bad movie.

So that is your main issue. You equate someone saying Duncan is better than Kobe as someone saying Kobe sucks.

So lets follow this analogy through properly.

What I and others are saying:

Yea, Star Wars was great, but we think it might be a little over-rated in terms of actual substance. We aren't saying it isn't great and one of the best movies ever, but other movies like the Godfather, Godfather Par II, Pulp Fiction, and Schindler's list (to name some of my favorites)...were as good or better.

That is your failure. Dirk, Duncan, Shaq, KG, Wade, Lebron...etc. Those guys represent other all time great movies as well. And it's not hating to take them over Kobe at certain points.

It's a good analogy now because it should show you how stupid it would be to say something like:

"Empire Strikes Back is hands down better than Godfather Part II and Braveheart and Citizen Kane"

Just stupid. Just like it's stupid to say Kobe was hands down better than some of the above mentioned guys in the years in question.


great points...( I actually thought we were talking about Kobe's defense in his prime)...but carry on.



( I'm Listening)


- I never argued Kobe was hands down better then Duncan or Lebron every single moment or year of the 00's....

Is Kobe the OT star wars trilogy...absolutley...is Duncan the OT Indiana Jones trilogy...absolutley.....both were amazing and can be argued as GOAT trilology's...

I would put Lebron as the Matrix Trilogy

NEO is the chosen one, chokes on the pill, has to return to zion/home after colluding just to fight off a bunch of light skin dudes

[DMAVS41]

great points...( I actually thought we were talking about Kobe's defense in his prime)...but carry on.



( I'm Listening)


- I never argued Kobe was hands down better then Duncan or Lebron every single moment or year of the 00's....

Is Kobe the OT star wars trilogy...absolutley...is Duncan the OT Indiana Jones trilogy...absolutley.....both were amazing and can be argued as GOAT trilology's...

I would put Lebron as the Matrix Trilogy

NEO is the chosen one, chokes on the pill, has to return to zion/home after colluding just to fight off a bunch of light dudes

So why do you have an issue with someone saying that Kobe was great...all time great...but that other players were as good or better in some of the years in question?

[AlphaWolf24]

So why do you have an issue with someone saying that Kobe was great...all time great...but that other players were as good or better in some of the years in question?


I don't think I did....

- I think I was trying to say over the span of a decade Kobe was the best allaround player at both ends of the floor...

- from 01 - 03' he clearly could be seen as the leagues best "allaround player"...as well as from 06' - 10'

- what other players combined his offense and his defense ability throughout the whole 00's?.....IMO no player did at the level of Kobe for the whole decade.

[DMAVS41]

I don't think I did....

- I think I was trying to say over the span of a decade Kobe was the best allaround player at both ends of the floor...

- from 01 - 03' he clearly could be seen as the leagues best "allaround player"...as well as from 06' - 10'

- what other players combined his offense and his defense ability throughout the whole 00's?.....IMO no player did at the level of Kobe for the whole decade.

Oh...well this is where we disagree.

Duncan would be that answer for me.

[AlphaWolf24]

Oh...well this is where we disagree.

Duncan would be that answer for me.


- Understandable...but I think I most fans put more weight into offensive skillset or ability to play a much more stretched out offensive game..

especially in the Modern era...and prolly across multiple era's.... ( not sure if it's 100% accurate although I believe it is)


- added, I was going to wait and see if anyone posted this...but no one has so I will.

the aspects that made Kobe such an elite defender was the ability to play amazing on the ball deefnse...Kobe was always in the shot pocket with his direct hand ( the hand pointing to lead leg of the offensive player) and always had his offhand in the passing lane...

he literally shut down the passing lane ( or at least made it hard as heck to find the lane) with his non direct hand or off hand.

He had the speed and the motivation to put amazing on the ball pressure and was often times utilized by Phil to play the other teams best perimeter scorers in a much more stretched out game ala Pippen or MJ.

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/3-16-2015/eYf8fg.gif


- also added....Kobe could play amazing off the ball defense...whether it was playing angles or reading screens, Kobe was always one of the best players to jump the pass or hedge the pass and force the shooter to make reads on him ( Kobe the defender)

https://youtu.be/yIuFUvhWs0A?t=216


I think when you combine his top shelf defense and his insane ability to put pressure on the defense with his Offensive skillset....

it becomes quite clear why he was voted player of the decade for the 2000's...


http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view1/2248303/kobe-bryant-defense-o.gif

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view3/2286356/kobe-defense-on-lebron-o.gif

http://i.cdn.turner.com/nba/nba/bulls/photos/iverson_091207.jpg

[Dro]

- Understandable...but I think I most fans put more weight into offensive skillset or ability to play a much more stretched out offensive game..

especially in the Modern era...and prolly across multiple era's.... ( not sure if it's 100% accurate although I believe it is)


- added, I was going to wait and see if anyone posted this...but no one has so I will.

the aspects that made Kobe such an elite defender was the ability to play amazing on the ball deefnse...Kobe was always in the shot pocket with his direct hand ( the hand pointing to lead leg of the offensive player) and always had his offhand in the passing lane...

he literally shut down the passing lane ( or at least made it hard as heck to find the lane) with his non direct hand or off hand.

He had the speed and the motivation to put amazing on the ball pressure and was often times utilized by Phil to play the other teams best perimeter scorers in a much more stretched out game ala Pippen or MJ.

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/3-16-2015/eYf8fg.gif


- also added....Kobe could play amazing off the ball defense...whether it was playing angles or reading screens, Kobe was always one of the best players to jump the pass or hedge the pass and force the shooter to make reads on him ( Kobe the defender)

https://youtu.be/yIuFUvhWs0A?t=216


I think when you combine his top shelf defense and his insane ability to put pressure on the defense with his Offensive skillset....

it becomes quite clear why he was voted player of the decade for the 2000's...


http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view1/2248303/kobe-bryant-defense-o.gif

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view3/2286356/kobe-defense-on-lebron-o.gif

http://i.cdn.turner.com/nba/nba/bulls/photos/iverson_091207.jpg
That Iverson pic is a perfect example of the difference in the rules today. Kobe would be called for a foul today where as back then, physical play was fine.

[Straight_Ballin]

Kobe was an elite defender because he had one hand up in the shot pocket and one hand to cover the passing lane.....yeah....I saw the movie coach carter also.

:lol

[Bernkastel]

1960's - russell
1970's - kareem
1980's - magic
1990's - jordan
2000's - kobe ( tnt, dime, SI, slam POTD awards so stfu lmao )
2010's - Brow/curry/bron?



ayy

LeBron will be the player of the 2010's.

[ArbitraryWater]

Kobe was an elite defender because he had one hand up in the shot pocket and one hand to cover the passing lane.....yeah....I saw the movie coach carter also.

:lol

:roll:

[kennethgriffin]

i dont mind some people on a message board saying duncan or shaq were player of the decade in the 2000's



the majority of the planet says kobe is


majority fans voted kobe POTD in the TNT poll

Majority of writers voted Kobe SLAM magazine POTD

majority of writers voted kobe Dime Magazine POTD

majority of writers voted kobe POTD in the Sports Illustrated top 20 Male Athletes list




then theres the Fan vote from ESPN/Sports nation


http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/post/_/id/11090247/all-nba-players






1.Michael Jordan

2.Magic Johnson

3.Kareem Abdul-Jabbar

4.Larry Bird

5.Wilt Chamberlain

6.Bill Russell

7.Kobe Bryant

8.LeBron James

9.Tim Duncan

10.Shaquille O'Neal






i mean... who cares if "joesuperfantard" on "randombasketballmessageboard.com" thinks duncan/shaq > kobe all time or during the 2000's


youre insignificant



http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-ZqmRBKx7Iyc/UqQ7ZaaQv0I/AAAAAAAABS8/IParAa6ez1I/s640/dfyhhc.gif



http://clesportstalk.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/r2hj.png

[aj1987]

You're a 35 year old alcoholic with a Kobe obsession. Get out, dude. Not to mention your sad AF basement.

[Bernkastel]

kenneth's malfunctioning

[kennethgriffin]

You're a 35 year old alcoholic with a Kobe obsession. Get out, dude. Not to mention your sad AF basement.



lol

1) i'm 31

2) who isnt an alcoholic thats even remotely interesting

3) i actually just moved into a full house. no more 1 bedroom apartments

4) you spend entirely too much time thinking about me

:lol

[aj1987]

lol

1) i'm 31

2) who isnt an alcoholic thats even remotely interesting

3) i actually just moved into a full house. no more 1 bedroom apartments

4) you spend entirely too much time thinking about me

:lol

You do have posters/jerseys of VC, Kobe, Grriffin, etc. right (griffmoney1985 or something similar)? :cheers:

Don't take it personally, dude. Most of the stuff I post on here is either me venting about my team or trolling.

[Cocaine80s]

lol

1) i'm 31

stopped reading right there.


You too old to be doing this shit man

[kennethgriffin]

stopped reading right there.


You too old to be doing this shit man



i started watching kobe in 1998... i was in grade 7 or 8

if i'm too old to be talking about basketball... then wtf are all these jordan fans doing on here

:lol

[smoovegittar]

i started watching kobe in 1998... i was in grade 7 or 8

if i'm too old to be talking about basketball... then wtf are all these jordan fans doing on here

:lol
What grade are you in now? I mean, with all your punctuation...

[LikeABosh]

Lebron is locked in as the player of the decade. 2 MVPs and 2 FMVPs. It's doubtful anyone will match this. When Lebron wins FMVP this year it'll be cemented.

[smoovegittar]

Lebron is locked in as the player of the decade. 2 MVPs and 2 FMVPs. It's doubtful anyone will match this. When Lebron wins FMVP this year it'll be cemented.
When all is said and done, LeBron will probably be known as the greatest player yet.

[LikeABosh]

When all is said and done, LeBron will probably be known as the greatest player yet.
Most know he's way beyond Kobe as a player and already have him passed Kobe on the GOAT list. Lebron will be top 5 GOAT after these Finals :bowdown:. Cant wait for Kenneth and other Kobetards meltdown

[smoovegittar]

Most know he's way beyond Kobe as a player and already have him passed Kobe on the GOAT list. Lebron will be top 5 GOAT after these Finals :bowdown:. Cant wait for Kenneth and other Kobetards meltdown
It's the game. You gotta move on...

[NBAplayoffs2001]

I can't stand LeBron but for real... he's number 1 though. Unless he retires after this season, it is his to lose.