NBA Legend Bill Laimbeer Says LeBron >>> Jordan

[SilkkTheShocker]

[QUOTE]Former Detroit Pistons center Bill Laimbeer went on the "Dan Patrick Show" this morning and was asked to pick between LeBron James and Michael Jordan in their primes.

Laimbeer went with James, who will be making his fifth straight appearance in the NBA Finals, this time with the injury-riddled Cleveland Cavaliers.

"There's no question I would take LeBron," Laimbeer said. "He can do more.

"I mean, Michael Jordan could score, make big shots and look spectacular at times with wild, flying dunks, but LeBron can get you 18 rebounds. LeBron can get you 15 assists, if he chooses to, or he can score 50 if he wanted to. The triple threat that he poses is just phenomenal, and then the size that he's got, he just physically dominates. It's impressive.

"Look at what LeBron has in the Finals right now.

[Dr Hawk]

http://members.iinet.net.au/~jchong8/mjvskobe/8485BillLaimbeer.jpg

[Prometheus]

Laimbeer still salty about that '91 sweep.

[Lebron23]

Badboy Pistons still hates Jordan.

[J Shuttlesworth]

Why should I consider a professional NBA players opinion to be more valuable than kenneththegriffins?

[Beastmode88]

A nba legend that's not in the HOF? :wtf: :wtf:

[Young X]

This is like asking Joakim Noah about Lebron in 20 years. Of course Laimbeer thinks Bron is better, not surprised at all.

[JohnMax]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lki7_xUMCVI&t=4m11s

[SilkkTheShocker]

This is like asking Joakim Noah about Lebron in 20 years. Of course Laimbeer thinks Bron is better, not surprised at all.

Except Laimbeer actually beat Jordan multiple times.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Except Laimbeer actually beat Jordan multiple times.
http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/kevin-garnett-reaction.gif

[Beastmode88]

Except Laimbeer actually beat Jordan multiple times.

and he has played lebron in how many games?

[Done_And_Done]

Meh

[Marchesk]

Except Laimbeer actually beat Jordan multiple times.

Lambeer and Isiah also said the Bulls wouldn't be able to repeat after the Pistons got swept. :lol

[FreezingTsmoove]

Except Laimbeer actually beat Jordan multiple times.

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view3/4551128/kevin-garnett-reaction-o.gif

[sportjames23]

Laimbeer still salty about that '91 sweep.


/thread

[Sarcastic]

He knows NBA talent so well that he coaches women's basketball.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

and he has played lebron in how many games?
He was talking about the comparison to Noah. Noah is 0-4 in Playoff series against LeBron James.

[sportjames23]

Except Laimbeer actually beat Jordan multiple times.


And MJ ended the Bad Boys' little mini-dynasty and proceeded to own the NBA for the next decade.

[Done_And_Done]

Dumb thread.

For every former player with this opinion, there's dozens who feel the opposite. Give it a few years...

[greymatter]

Without reading, I would likely jump to the conclusion that "of course he'd say that, he's a Bad Boy Piston and they hated Jordan and the Bulls".

After reading, I'll still say that he's wrong and obviously still quite biased, but at least his last comment was spot-on.


"LeBron came into the league knowing how to play basketball and involve his teammates. Jordan had to learn that, and then they had to assemble some great teammates around him in order for him to win.

Jordan needed teammates molded around him to complement his skillset. Unlike players like Bird/Russell/Magic, you couldn't just toss him onto any team and instantly make them playoff caliber like you could those 3.

[SilkkTheShocker]

And MJ ended the Bad Boys' little mini-dynasty and proceeded to own the NBA for the next decade.

Cool story. Doesn't change the fact Jordan was his b.itch.

[Young X]

Except Laimbeer actually beat Jordan multiple times.http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/kevin-garnett-reaction.gif

[MP.Trey]

He knows NBA talent so well that he coaches women's basketball.
:roll:

I think we can just attribute this one to salt.

[oarabbus]

And MJ ended the Bad Boys' little mini-dynasty and proceeded to own the NBA for the next decade.


Laimbeer still slapped him around and won it while on top.

[Trollsmasher]

Except Laimbeer actually beat Jordan multiple times.
rat poison

[RoseCity07]

It's a respectable opinion. I personally would take Kareem over Jordan. I doubt most people on ISH would even understand that.

[Xiengqichess]

Stupid. Jordan would never scored only 8 points in a final game.

[PJR]

I'm here for the 3ball meltdown

[SilkkTheShocker]

Stupid. Jordan would never scored only 8 points in a final game.

Well considering he couldn't muster more than 3 playoff wins without Scottie Pippen, he probably wouldn't sniff a Finals game with Dellevedova and bunch of Knicks cast offs.

[jlip]

I honestly don't care who is better, and a person can have either opinion, but this is the problem I have with the "cult of MJ." Anytime a former player whether he was a teammate or opponent of MJ's says that MJ is not the GOAT or that someone else is better, the MJ cultists can't simply disagree with the person. They have to assume that the former player is motivated by some ulterior motive such as jealousy or bitterness. In their minds such "blasphemy" is unfathomable that the former player couldn't genuinely have that opinion devoid of some hidden bias or agenda.

[Genaro]

Bad Boys including Laimbeer are known Jordan haters. You got to take this as a hating statement or at least recognize it can be one.

Noah is a great comparative. It's not about losing or not, I doubt the bad boys liked Jordan even before he swept them.

[Young X]

I honestly don't care who is better, and a person can have either opinion, but this is the problem I have with the "cult of MJ." Anytime a former player whether he was a teammate or opponent of MJ's says that MJ is not the GOAT or that someone else is better, the MJ cultists can't simply disagree with the person. They have to assume that the former player is motivated by some ulterior motive such as jealousy or bitterness. In their minds such "blasphemy" is unfathomable that the former player couldn't genuinely have that opinion apart from some hidden bias or agenda.Can't speak for everyone else but guys like Oscar Robertson and Laimbeer have always disliked MJ. Same with John Salley. You'll rarely hear them say anything positive about Jordan especially the latter 2 who who involved in that heated Bulls/Pistons rivalry. It is what it is.

[3ball]

Jordan needed teammates molded around him



This is false.. The statement implies MJ's game was limited, thus forcing the GM to find specific teammates to fit his game - that's not true - MJ is the most versatile scorer in the history of the game and could get 30+ any way he need to... The Bulls GM did what any GM does - i.e. "okay, we need a rebounder... okay, we need a shooter.. etc"

If you disagree with this, then what type of teammate did Jordan need to "mold around his game"?... Don't say he needed a playmaker like Scottie - firstly, the Bulls didn't have a PG... Secondly, MJ averaged more assists and had higher assist percentage!!.. His assist percentage was 24.9% and 28.2% in regular season and playoffs, compared to Pippen's 23.4% and 21.2% - so NOT EVEN CLOSE..

And as for rebounders in the frontcourt like Grant or Rodman - EVERY team needs a rebounder in the frontcourt.. So again, what type of teammate did MJ need to "mold around his game"??????... The reality is that MJ could score 30+ in any way he needed to - it was MJ who molded HIS game to his teammates...

Remember, the triangle was an "equal-opportunity" offense designed to get role players opportunities and it reduced MJ's ability to jack up shots indiscriminately - accordingly, MJ had to adjust his game to fit the triangle.. This is well-known and documented.
.

[jlip]

Can't speak for everyone else but guys like Oscar Robertson and Laimbeer have always disliked MJ. Same with John Salley. You'll rarely hear them say anything positive about Jordan especially the latter 2 who who involved in that heated Bulls/Pistons rivalry. It is what it is.

It has happened with other players such as MJ's former teammates not just his opponents. When Pippen said that MJ was the greatest scorer in NBA history but that Lebron may eventually go down as the greatest player, the MJ cultists responded with, "Oh Pippen is just jealous that MJ was getting all of the credit." Now when Cartwright implied that Lebron is comparable to MJ, the same excuse of Cartwright allegedly being bitter or salty is thrown out there. When Phil Jackson said that he would pick Bill Russell (whom he played against) over MJ more accusations of Phil being emotionally motivated in his opinion were hurled. Again, for the sake of this discussion I don't care who is better, but why can't these former players genuinely believe what they are saying without an agenda? Why can't MJ fans just say, "I think player X is wrong in what he said, and I disagree with him"?

[StephHamann]

He knows NBA talent so well that he coaches women's basketball.

http://i.imgur.com/5gPbxQE.gif

[OldSchoolBBall]

I honestly have no idea how anyone who has played and who really KNOWS basketball could think that Lebron is a better player than Jordan. To me the difference is clear. Not huge, but clear. When I watch Lebron, I see an amazing player - a top 7 talent of all time at a minimum - but I don't see basketball being played at the highest level I've ever seen. I don't see the best player to ever play the game. That would be Jordan.

[jlip]

I honestly have no idea how anyone who has played and who really KNOWS basketball could think that Lebron is a better player than Jordan. To me the difference is clear. Not huge, but clear. When I watch Lebron, I see an amazing player - a top 7 talent of all time at a minimum - but I don't see basketball being played at the highest level I've ever seen. I don't see the best player to ever play the game. That would be Jordan.

See. I can respect this. :applause: You simply disagree with the opinions of those who think that Lebron (or any other player) is better without accusing those who feel differently of having an agenda.

[dh144498]

"I mean, Michael Jordan could score, make big shots and look spectacular at times with wild, flying dunks, but LeBron can get you 18 rebounds. LeBron can get you 15 assists, if he chooses to, or he can score 50 if he wanted to. The triple threat that he poses is just phenomenal.


what a load of bull. MJ can also do all of that... if he chooses to. But wait he has done all of those.

:lol

[Heilige]

I honestly have no idea how anyone who has played and who really KNOWS basketball could think that Lebron is a better player than Jordan. To me the difference is clear. Not huge, but clear. When I watch Lebron, I see an amazing player - a top 7 talent of all time at a minimum - but I don't see basketball being played at the highest level I've ever seen. I don't see the best player to ever play the game. That would be Jordan.



What does your top 10 list look like currently?

[3ball]

Stupid. Jordan would never scored only 8 points in a final game.


Exactly... The guy simply performs worse than MJ.. And Laimbeer said MJ didn't couldn't get 18 rebounds like Lebron... MJ got 18 rebounds while scoring his career high of 69 points!.. Laimbeer's careless inaccuracy proves his hater-mindset towards MJ.

Laimbeer also said Lebron came into the league knowing how to pass and involve teammates.. Who cares?... By the time MJ completed his first 3-peat at 30 years of age (like Lebron is now), MJ had averaged more assists in the playoffs and Finals than Lebron:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11390201&postcount=120

Once MJ learned to trust his teammates, he was an equal passer with Lebron and still the much better scorer - MJ had the best of both worlds - passing and scoring.

In reality, Lebron came into the league knowing how to RELY on teammates, whereas it took MJ many years to trust the guys he played with (this shows how scrubby MJ's teammates were compared to Lebron's).

[Dro]

Laimbeer has always said that players are better than Jordan, he doesn't like MJ...

[magnax1]

How many times has Lebron gotten 18 rebounds? Twice? If that?

[3ball]

How many times has Lebron gotten 18 rebounds? Twice? If that?


And he never got 18 rebounds while scoring 69 points like MJ did

[jlip]

How many times has Lebron gotten 18 rebounds? Twice? If that?

I can think of three times in the playoffs off the top of my head. I don't know if there have been others.

Last game of 2010 against the Celtics
Game 4 or 5 against the Pacers in 2012 when he had something like 40/18/9
Game 3 against the Hawks this season.

Edit:

He did it six times. Four of those times were in the playoffs.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pgl_finder.cgi?request=1&player_id=jamesle01&match=game&year_min=&year_max=&age_min=0&age_max=99&team_id=&opp_id=&is_playoffs=&round_id=&game_num_type=&game_num_min=&game_num_max=&game_month=&game_location=&game_result=&is_starter=&is_active=&is_hof=&pos_is_G=&pos_is_GF=&pos_is_F=&pos_is_FG=&pos_is_FC=&pos_is_C=&pos_is_CF=&c1stat=trb&c1comp=gt&c1val=18&c2stat=&c2comp=gt&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&order_by=pts

[Solefade]

Except Laimbeer actually beat Jordan multiple times.


http://i.imgur.com/iFr8igt.gif

[TheReal Kendall]

I disagree and I feel like MJ could've went out and got 10+ assists if he wanted to.

I don't like either player but I respect what their games and different styles of play.

The rebounding thing is simply because Lebron is bigger than MJ. Also let's not act like Lebron is some rebounding machine.

Can we stop acting like the Cavs are scrubs? This team is like the old Lebron Cavs were they had 3&D guys and good rebounding.

They fit perfect with Lebron's style of play.

[SilkkTheShocker]

I disagree and I feel like MJ could've went out and got 10+ assists if he wanted to.

I don't like either player but I respect what their games and different styles of play.

The rebounding thing is simply because Lebron is bigger than MJ. Also let's not act like Lebron is some rebounding machine.

Can we stop acting like the Cavs are scrubs? This team is like the old Lebron Cavs were they had 3&D guys and good rebounding.

They fit perfect with Lebron's style of play.

This is a fancy way of saying the Cavs lack front line talent.

[Derka]

I don't agree. I watched both play at their prime and I just flat don't agree. Laimbeer is certainly welcome to his opinion, though...God knows he's earned it.

And by the way, not every difference of opinion needs to be attributed to agenda/hate. Nerds.

[3ball]

I feel like MJ could've went out and got 10+ assists if he wanted to.


He DID...

MJ played point guard for the last 24 games of the 1989 season because the regular starter was injured.. He averaged 31/9/11/51 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01/gamelog/1989/#322-346-sum:pgl_basic), including a stretch of 10 triple doubles in 11 games, and a triple-double in 21 minutes (you can youtube it)

Lebron has never passed anywhere near this level.. That's a fact... And MJ did it in the 1991 Finals too, averaging 11.4 APG... Again, Lebron has never passed this well..

But hey, it shouldn't be a surprise that when the GOAT was asked to pinch-hit at PG for 24 games, he did it as well as any other wing ever has.. That's the kind of stuff the GOAT is supposed to do.
.

[jlip]

He DID...

MJ played point guard for the last 24 games of the 1989 season because the regular starter was injured.. He averaged 31/9/11/51 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01/gamelog/1989/#322-346-sum:pgl_basic), including a stretch of 10 triple doubles in 11 games, and a triple-double in 21 minutes (you can youtube it)

Lebron has never passed anywhere near this level.. That's a fact... And MJ did it in the 1991 Finals too, averaging 11.4 APG... Again, Lebron has never passed this well.

OH NOOOO!!! Not this again! :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

[nba_55]

He DID...

MJ played point guard for the last 24 games of the 1989 season because the regular starter was injured.. He averaged 31/9/11/51 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01/gamelog/1989/#322-346-sum:pgl_basic), including a stretch of 10 triple doubles in 11 games, and a triple-double in 21 minutes (you can youtube it)

Lebron has never passed anywhere near this level.. That's a fact... And MJ did it in the 1991 Finals too, averaging 11.4 APG... Again, Lebron has never passed this well..

But hey, it shouldn't be a surprise that when the GOAT was asked to pinch-hit at PG for 24 games, he did it as well as any other wing ever has.. That's the kind of stuff the GOAT is supposed to do.
.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cc/US_1-9.svg

[3ball]

OH NOOOO!!! Not this again! :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
Facts.. I know... They can hurt

[dubeta]

Jordan stans producing enough salt in this thread to fill up the Phillips Arena :lol

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Facts.. I know... They can hurt
Want to know another fact?
...



1-9.

[greymatter]

O yay, the biggest Jordan dickrider has chimed in. I guess I'll humor this nonsense with a serious response. Just once though.


This is false.. The statement implies MJ's game was limited, thus forcing the GM to find specific teammates to fit his game - that's not true - MJ is the most versatile scorer in the history of the game and could get 30+ any way he need to... The Bulls GM did what any GM does - i.e. "okay, we need a rebounder... okay, we need a shooter.. etc"

I never "implied" his game was limited. I said his game is shitty on a team level. It took Phil Jackson to alleviate the condition and create the right balance where Jordan could still be his Airness while his teammates could still find a means to be productive.



If you disagree with this, then what type of teammate did Jordan need to "mold around his game"?... Don't say he needed a playmaker like Scottie - firstly, the Bulls didn't have a PG... Secondly, MJ averaged more assists and had higher assist percentage!!.. His assist percentage was 24.9% and 28.2% in regular season and playoffs, compared to Pippen's 23.4% and 21.2% - so NOT EVEN CLOSE..


No, I will indeed say Pip. I'll also add Grant and throw in Phil Jackson for good measure. Pip and Grant were there for doing all the necessary dirty work, like guarding the opposing team's best perimeter and post players while being amongst the best utility/glue guys at their respective positions. Having high quality jack-of-all-trades types of players at wing and in the post are exactly the types of guys that were necessary to "mold" around Jordan's game in order for Jordan to ever have success. Take just one of them away, and he comes up short like he did in 94-95.



And as for rebounders in the frontcourt like Grant or Rodman - EVERY team needs a rebounder in the frontcourt.. So again, what type of teammate did MJ need to "mold around his game"??????... The reality is that MJ could score 30+ in any way he needed to - it was MJ who molded HIS game to his teammates...

Versatile 2 way players. And it looks like someone has been sleeping under a rock for the past few years. The Heatles won two titles with no one on the team who averaged more than 8 rebounds.

I don't think you understand what you are implying when you say MJ molded his game to his teammates. I'd normally say to dwell again on the subject and get back to me, but I know for a fact that you aren't astute enough to arrive at the correct conclusion. If Jordan indeed "molded" his game to fit his team's then it confirms that his style of play simply lacked impact on team success.

See 93-94 season. Also see mediocrity prior to Phil Jackson despite having Charles Oakley.


Remember, the triangle was an "equal-opportunity" offense designed to get role players opportunities and it reduced MJ's ability to jack up shots indiscriminately - accordingly, MJ had to adjust his game to fit the triangle.. This is well-known and documented.
.

It was more about the fact that Phil Jackson found out that he had some other guys who could ball and had to SELL Jordan on trusting these other guys. That is "well known and documented". Jordan without a Phil Jackson to manage his ego would be just a better, but still ringless version of Dominique Wilkins.

[jlip]

He DID...

MJ played point guard for the last 24 games of the 1989 season because the regular starter was injured.. He averaged 31/9/11/51 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01/gamelog/1989/#322-346-sum:pgl_basic), including a stretch of 10 triple doubles in 11 games, and a triple-double in 21 minutes (you can youtube it)

Lebron has never passed anywhere near this level.. That's a fact... And MJ did it in the 1991 Finals too, averaging 11.4 APG... Again, Lebron has never passed this well..

But hey, it shouldn't be a surprise that when the GOAT was asked to pinch-hit at PG for 24 games, he did it as well as any other wing ever has.. That's the kind of stuff the GOAT is supposed to do.
.


OH NOOOO!!! Not this again! :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:


Facts.. I know... They can hurt

We've already gone through when you first got on here, and I refuse to waste much time with you. I will just repost the information.

__________________________________________________ ___________________

3ball, I'm going to try this just one more time. You claim:


the key point is that Jordan was a 30ppg, 10 assist point guard and Lebron is not...

Again:


Mo Williams missed the games from 01-21 to 02-11. The Cavs during that 11 game stretch started Delonte West one game then he got injured. After that Boobie Gibson started. Lebron literally played pg. Here are articles (http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf/2010/02/lebron_glad_point_guard_assign.html) from that season (http://thepaintedarea.blogspot.com/2010/02/lebron-on-pace-to-shatter-forward.html) that prove (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/330416-williams-absence-affords-cavs-chance-to-grow) that he played pg (http://articles.dailypress.com/2010-01-31/news/dp-spt_mcmanamon-on-lebron_0131jan31_1_slam-dunk-lebron-james-mvp) during that stretch. 31.0ppg 10.5ppg as a point guard. (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jamesle01/gamelog/2010/#516-526-sum:pgl_basic)

Over a 24 game stretch in 2010 (the same number of games as MJ as a pg in '89) Lebron avg. 30.4ppg 10.1apg (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jamesle01/gamelog/2010/#515-538-sum:pgl_basic). In over half of those games Mo Williams was the starting pg and Lebron was yet a 30ppg 10apg player.


Over the last 38 games (half of the 76 that he played) of the 2010 season Lebron avg. 30.6ppg 9.4apg (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jamesle01/gamelog/2010/#511-548-sum:pgl_basic) and his team went 32-6 in the process.

[Da Hammer]

Without reading, I would likely jump to the conclusion that "of course he'd say that, he's a Bad Boy Piston and they hated Jordan and the Bulls".

After reading, I'll still say that he's wrong and obviously still quite biased, but at least his last comment was spot-on.



Jordan needed teammates molded around him to complement his skillset. Unlike players like Bird/Russell/Magic, you couldn't just toss him onto any team and instantly make them playoff caliber like you could those 3.
:wtf:
Lebron needed to create a superteam to win his 2 NBA Finals and despite that he still went 2/4 and would have been 1/4 if not for Ray Allen. And this is while playing in an era in which the East is at an all-time low. Seriously the East since Lebron has been in the East has been a complete joke.

Meanwhile Jordan was losing to great all time great teams like the bad boy pistons and larry birds celtics.

[3ball]

:wtf:
Lebron needed to create a superteam to win his 2 NBA Finals and despite that he still went 2/4 and would have been 1/4 if not for Ray Allen. And this is while playing in an era in which the East is at an all-time low. Seriously the East since Lebron has been in the East has been a complete joke.

Meanwhile Jordan was losing to great all time great teams like the bad boy pistons and larry birds celtics.
this

[3ball]

Want to know another fact?
...



1-9.
this means you think 1986 Celtics = 2007 Washington Wizards.

which means you're a dumbass

[3ball]

I can think of three times in the playoffs off the top of my head (where Lebron got 18 rebounds)



So wait.. You prefer 1-2 extra rebounds over 50% more scoring, more assists, less TO's, all on better efficiency?


PLAYOFF AVERAGES THRU 30 YEARS OLD:

Jordan: 34.7 PPG / 6.6 APG / 50.1% FG
Lebron: 27.9 PPG / 6.5 APG / 48.1% FG


FINALS AVERAGES THRU 30 YEARS OLD:

Jordan: 36.3 PPG / 7.9 APG / 52.6% FG
Lebron: 24.1 PPG / 6.3 APG / 46.1% FG

Source: basketball-reference.com


Those are the GOAT stats, bar none - no one is close.. Btw, Lebron never got 18 rebounds while scoring 69 points like MJ did.
.

[Blue&Orange]

Look at what LeBron has in the Finals right now. … Anybody else in this league or anybody else in the world, could they have led the team he has around him right now to the Finals? I don't think so. Jordan couldn't have led this team to the Finals.
i loled.

So what was the team that was going to stop Jordan+cavs? Celtics? Bulls? HAwks? :roll:

Players have to defend Harden with the hands behind the back, how the game is today, Jordan would have average 42-8-13 against celtics bulls and HAwks.

[Kvnzhangyay]

this means you think 1986 Celtics = 2007 Washington Wizards.

which means you're a dumbass

No, it means he's being like you, as in using facts out of context, but still thinking that they're in context because of belief perseverance and confirmation bias.

[jzek]

Still salty :roll:

[jzek]

Jordan would have average 42-8-13 against celtics bulls and HAwks.

You mean 42 points in the first half, right? Surely that's a bit low for Jordan in the weakest era of the modern era.

[Beastmode88]

Still salty :roll:

just like malone, both salty as ****

[3ball]

It took Phil Jackson to alleviate the condition and create the right balance where Jordan could still be his Airness while his teammates could still find a means to be productive.


That's nice.. But despite the new offense, MJ still had to put up GOAT stats for them to win (see post #61 for the GOAT stats).. :confusedshrug:





like guarding the opposing team's best perimeter


The narrative that Pippen guarded the other team's best perimeter player is pure BS - show me ONE example of this... Just one... Go ahead and say the 1991 Finals, so I can post each of the 5 games that show MJ guarding Magic for the ENTIRE SERIES, except the 2nd and 3rd quarters of games 2 and 3 - THAT'S IT.





Take just one of them away, and he comes up short like he did in 94-95.


Naturally... Without one of them, he'd have to average EVEN MORE than the GOAT stats he was already putting up alongside both of them.. Sigh.. even the GOAT has limits.





See 93-94 season...


Exactly, MJ took that 2nd round exit team to a 3-peat and dynasty - think about it - a player would be considered GOAT if they led this year's 55-win Griz to a 3-peat WHILE WINNING 2 MVP's, 3 FMVP's and averaging 30 PPG... And that's exactly what MJ did for the Bulls.

Of course, there's the obvious elephant in the room - the Griz were far more talented than the 1994 Bulls and would never need MJ to put up GOAT stats like the Bulls needed.. This brings us back to the main point - Jordan's supporting casts WEREN'T elite (i.e. worse than this year's Griz), which is why he had to put up GOAT stats with the Bulls.

The GOAT stats prove he had less help... 2 + 2 = 4... If a guy has to put up more stats to win his rings, then he had less help, period.





It was more about the fact that Phil Jackson found out that he had some other guys who could ball


Again, these "other guys who could ball" weren't an elite supporting cast, because MJ was still required to have GOAT stats alongside them.. Whereas Lebron's supporting casts are good enough that he wins rings while putting up far worse stats... Those are the well-documented facts.





Jordan without a Phil Jackson to manage his ego would be just a better, but still ringless version of Dominique Wilkins.


Any player who was materially better than Dominique won a ton of rings - Bird, Magic, Isiah, Jordan, Dr. J... Again, your perceptions are completely warped because the GOAT is rent free.. You literally think MJ should be able to win with nothing.. That's how good you think he is.. :pimp:

[pauk]

Stupid. Jordan would never scored only 8 points in a final game.

Yes he would if he was in the same situation, like if he shared off. possessions with Bird & Kobe for the first time playing "my turn your turn whoever is hot offense" and was a bit more unselfish like Lebron was as a point-forward, especially when either Bird or Kobe (or both) caught fire leaving him only with 10-14 FG Attempts, hence 8-12 points....

Thats exactly what happened that 1st year, especially in 11 Finals.... its not like Lebron had some scrub supporting cast and was forced to hoist shots but instead crumbled like a bitch in the corner hot potato'ing the ball.... that never happened & would have never happened....

Its just logic... you put somebody even like Jordan in say a team like this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992_United_States_men%27s_Olympic_basketball_team and he will even get you 8 point games every time.... he wasnt even the 4th best scorer there....

[Droid101]

Laimbeer still salty about that '91 sweep.
This. Soo mad. His statement is actually retarded considering Jordan's assist average that playoffs when he went PG mode.

[TheBigVeto]

Except Laimbeer actually beat Jordan multiple times.
:applause: :applause: :applause:

[3ball]

http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/919b363305d3199f4c450c8c41f36c01.gif

Except Laimbeer actually beat Jordan multiple times


But MJ still made him walk off the court in shame and that's replayed all the time.. You're only as good as your last game (famous hoops saying).

Also, Laimbeer was embarrassed by MJ many times, in very conspicuous fashion, most notably here (MJ doubles up the straight right hand, then makes statement on baseline):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSg4BorW8F8
.

[andgar923]

Jordan Rules

Would love to see Bron go up against that.

They probably won't need to since Rodman would stop him without much help.

[Mamba]

I can think of three times in the playoffs off the top of my head. I don't know if there have been others.

Last game of 2010 against the Celtics
Game 4 or 5 against the Pacers in 2012 when he had something like 40/18/9
Game 3 against the Hawks this season.

Edit:

He did it six times. Four of those times were in the playoffs.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pgl_finder.cgi?request=1&player_id=jamesle01&match=game&year_min=&year_max=&age_min=0&age_max=99&team_id=&opp_id=&is_playoffs=&round_id=&game_num_type=&game_num_min=&game_num_max=&game_month=&game_location=&game_result=&is_starter=&is_active=&is_hof=&pos_is_G=&pos_is_GF=&pos_is_F=&pos_is_FG=&pos_is_FC=&pos_is_C=&pos_is_CF=&c1stat=trb&c1comp=gt&c1val=18&c2stat=&c2comp=gt&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&order_by=pts

and yet again this post will go unnoticed because it's a logical argument. God damn it ISH go back to 2005-2006 form.

[Asukal]

Yes he would if he was in the same situation, like if he shared off. possessions with Bird & Kobe for the first time playing "my turn your turn whoever is hot offense" and was a bit more unselfish like Lebron was as a point-forward, especially when either Bird or Kobe (or both) caught fire leaving him only with 10-14 FG Attempts, hence 8-12 points....

Thats exactly what happened that 1st year, especially in 11 Finals.... its not like Lebron had some scrub supporting cast and was forced to hoist shots but instead crumbled like a bitch in the corner hot potato'ing the ball.... that never happened & would have never happened....

Its just logic... you put somebody even like Jordan in say a team like this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992_United_States_men%27s_Olympic_basketball_team and he will even get you 8 point games every time.... he wasnt even the 4th best scorer there....

Get lebaldo's cawk off your mouth and get that video done. Until then,

STFU pauk! :whatever:

[SilkkTheShocker]

Bad Boys including Laimbeer are known Jordan haters. You got to take this as a hating statement or at least recognize it can be one.

Noah is a great comparative. It's not about losing or not, I doubt the bad boys liked Jordan even before he swept them.

:oldlol:




























You're a r.etard.

[knicksman]

losers rooting for fellow losers. :coleman:

[sd3035]

Why should I consider a professional NBA players opinion to be more valuable than kenneththegriffins?


As a fan, Kenny G can objectively evaluate each player without the bias caused from getting destroyed by said players all the time

[knicksman]

Want to know another fact?
...



1-9.


Another fact.. 2/5:lol

[SilkkTheShocker]

losers rooting for fellow losers. :coleman:

They must both be Knicks fans

[knicksman]

They must both be Knicks fans

LOL. Says the guy whose happiness depends on the success of his idol. Life must be tough being a loser sillk

[sportjames23]

LOL. Says the guy whose happiness depends on the success of his idol. Life must be tough being a loser sillk


Notice how Silkk only recently began posting here again. Nigguh was ghost all last summer.

[Da_Realist]

I call BS. Nobody knows better than Bill Laimbeer that the game has changed just a little bit. He knows the East isn't the same as the East he played in.

[SilkkTheShocker]

Another fact.. 2/5:lol

Knicks all-time Finals record is 2/6.

Don't stop though, you're on a roll :applause:

[Droid101]

Knicks all-time Finals record is 2/6.

bran coming for the Knick record this year!

[SilkkTheShocker]

bran coming for the Knick record this year!

Wasn't I on your ignore list? What happened, couldn't resist? :lol You puppets are too easy.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Another fact.. 2/5:lol
2/5 >>> 1/10

[LeBird]

I honestly have no idea how anyone who has played and who really KNOWS basketball could think that Lebron is a better player than Jordan. To me the difference is clear. Not huge, but clear. When I watch Lebron, I see an amazing player - a top 7 talent of all time at a minimum - but I don't see basketball being played at the highest level I've ever seen. I don't see the best player to ever play the game. That would be Jordan.

Because you're a stan, not a fan. You've basically said no one that knows basketball could say other than Jordan is the best - basically disqualifying anyone other than a Jordan stan to know basketball.

[3ball]

Because you're a stan, not a fan. You've basically said no one that knows basketball could say other than Jordan is the best - basically disqualifying anyone other than a Jordan stan to know basketball.
Jordan played on the best team, and won the most championships & MVP's (17 total rings and MVPs), other than Russell.

And he did all this while putting up the best stats - this is key - to win the most while putting up the best stats can only mean one thing - You're GOAT..

To say anyone else is GOAT is nonsensical when there's a guy out there that has done this (won the most with the best stats).

[LeBird]

Jordan played on the best team, and won the most championships & MVP's (17 total rings and MVPs), other than Russell.

And he did all this while putting up the best stats - this is key - to win the most while putting up the best stats can only mean one thing - You're GOAT..

To say anyone else is GOAT is nonsensical when there's a guy out there that has done this (won the most with the best stats).

No, he didn't put up the best stats. The only thing Jordan is clear standout in is scoring. He's no better or inferior to Lebron in basically every other facet of the game.

Jordan had also by far the best team during his winning run and playing in comfortably the weakest era in the last 30-40 years. If you're ring-counting and going by personnel output then Russell >>>> Jordan and it isn't close. Not only did he win almost twice as much; he is by the best defensive player of all-time.

[BigBoss]

Found a GIF of OP

http://i.imgur.com/PRYr0yE.gif

[3ball]

.
Laimbeer is mad that MJ stole on him and struck fear in him.. made him flee like girly man:


http://i.imgur.com/oDlh6aI.gif



Then he embarrassed him later in that same game:


http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/0552c6acb1b36da6ff0cabd5d003ff65.gif



A few more on Laimbeer for good measure:


http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/9bc184a4bec05b1afeaa37d20aa0af5b.gif

http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/919b363305d3199f4c450c8c41f36c01.gif

http://www.gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/d023311ed351a61907dfbaaaecf7c4c2.gif

[sportjames23]

I love that second to last one where he sized Laimbeer up before throwing it down on him. And I love how in the last one he shit on both Laimbeer AND Salley.

[Asukal]

Because you're a stan, not a fan. You've basically said no one that knows basketball could say other than Jordan is the best - basically disqualifying anyone other than a Jordan stan to know basketball.

Says the jordan hater. :whatever:

You think 2/5 is great? :roll:

[OldSchoolBBall]

No, he didn't put up the best stats.

Jordan is one of the 2-3 most statistically dominant players in history at a minimum. So yes, he did put up the best stats. Try again.

[NBASTATMAN]

Laimbeer still salty about that '91 sweep.
:cheers:

I will give Lebron major Props for what he has done so far and if the Cavs can win he will climb up that GOAT list but Lebron hasn't played at MJ's level for consecutive years in the PLAYOFFS.... If he wins I think you have to put him up there but he isn't better.. He hasnt shown anything to show that he is better.

[Dro]

No, he didn't put up the best stats. The only thing Jordan is clear standout in is scoring. He's no better or inferior to Lebron in basically every other facet of the game.

Jordan had also by far the best team during his winning run and playing in comfortably the weakest era in the last 30-40 years. If you're ring-counting and going by personnel output then Russell >>>> Jordan and it isn't close. Not only did he win almost twice as much; he is by the best defensive player of all-time.
:lol

[bballnoob1192]

Well considering he couldn't muster more than 3 playoff wins without Scottie Pippen, he probably wouldn't sniff a Finals game with Dellevedova and bunch of Knicks cast offs.
Lebron would make the finals with this cavs roster in the 80s east :biggums: :coleman: :lebronamazed: :whatever: :kobe: :crazysam: :durantunimpressed: :yaohappy:

Lebron would cream himself playing against the 80's east.

[SugarHill]

the opinions of legends only matter when they agree with you - ish

[Im Still Ballin]

if I post like a black then maybe people will think i am black - fraud

[LeBird]

Says the jordan hater. :whatever:

You think 2/5 is great? :roll:

6/12 > 6/15

[dh144498]

6/12 > 6/15

besides Bill Russell, who has won 6 rings in 12?

:biggums:

[PP34Deuce]

I think it's funny when people mention the 80's era being so tough Lebron would wilt.

Do we realize Lebron is 6'8 260 pounds. Lebron is very physical especially when mad. He's match up and era proof.

[PP34Deuce]

I still think MJ is the best of all time. I do believe the next 2 years Lebron has a chance to seriously be number 2 all time.

He's the most talented NBA player the world has ever seen. More talented than Jordan,Magic,Kobe,etc. He actually has realized that talent and you see him make improvements. that jumper is broke but his post game is looking scary due to his ability to pass, post, and score on the elbows.

[dreamwarrior]

Jordan had more skill. Lebron has more muscles.

[Solefade]

the opinions of legends only matter when they agree with you - ish


the opinions of legends don't matter and are salty when they don't agree with you -ISH

[greymatter]

That's nice.. But despite the new offense, MJ still had to put up GOAT stats for them to win (see post #61 for the GOAT stats).. :confusedshrug:



The narrative that Pippen guarded the other team's best perimeter player is pure BS - show me ONE example of this... Just one... Go ahead and say the 1991 Finals, so I can post each of the 5 games that show MJ guarding Magic for the ENTIRE SERIES, except the 2nd and 3rd quarters of games 2 and 3 - THAT'S IT.



Naturally... Without one of them, he'd have to average EVEN MORE than the GOAT stats he was already putting up alongside both of them.. Sigh.. even the GOAT has limits.



Exactly, MJ took that 2nd round exit team to a 3-peat and dynasty - think about it - a player would be considered GOAT if they led this year's 55-win Griz to a 3-peat WHILE WINNING 2 MVP's, 3 FMVP's and averaging 30 PPG... And that's exactly what MJ did for the Bulls.

Of course, there's the obvious elephant in the room - the Griz were far more talented than the 1994 Bulls and would never need MJ to put up GOAT stats like the Bulls needed.. This brings us back to the main point - Jordan's supporting casts WEREN'T elite (i.e. worse than this year's Griz), which is why he had to put up GOAT stats with the Bulls.

The GOAT stats prove he had less help... 2 + 2 = 4... If a guy has to put up more stats to win his rings, then he had less help, period.



Again, these "other guys who could ball" weren't an elite supporting cast, because MJ was still required to have GOAT stats alongside them.. Whereas Lebron's supporting casts are good enough that he wins rings while putting up far worse stats... Those are the well-documented facts.



Any player who was materially better than Dominique won a ton of rings - Bird, Magic, Isiah, Jordan, Dr. J... Again, your perceptions are completely warped because the GOAT is rent free.. You literally think MJ should be able to win with nothing.. That's how good you think he is.. :pimp:

You've provided nothing that wasn't anything other than typical Jordan deep-throating.

Rookie Bird's team improved 32Ws. Jordan was +11. Lebron = +18. Shaq = +20. Hakeem =+19. Drob was +35.

Magic was only +13W, but his team's improvement still means a lot because making a mediocre team into a title team vs vastly improving a lottery team is at least equally hard (if not harder) to accomplish.

Now back to your regularly scheduled gag-reflex free fellating.

[PP34Deuce]

Jordan had more skill. Lebron has more muscles.

Lebron has more skill than jordan. Jordan can score in a dominant fashion. but overall skills, Lebron is the most talented player we have ever seen.

[NBAplayoffs2001]

Lebron has more skill than jordan. Jordan can score in a dominant fashion. but overall skills, Lebron is the most talented player we have ever seen.

I actually really like this post. :applause: And I don't like LeBron one bit. But this is spot on.

[andgar923]

Lebron has more skill than jordan. Jordan can score in a dominant fashion. but overall skills, Lebron is the most talented player we have ever seen.
:facepalm :rolleyes:

[andgar923]

Bron has a hard time against Diaw on a single coverage.

He's known to be mentally weak.

Imagine going up against Rodman? Rodman wouldn't even need help.

If MJ controlled the ball as much as Bron does, he'd average 10 assists along with 30 something poiints as well.

But MJ primarily plays off the ball and runs and offense (as in running 'sets') not just drive and dish, or pick and pass.

[NBAplayoffs2001]

Rodman used to guard Jordan in those series.

Rodman >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Diaw.

[FKAri]

Damn this already a multi page thread? The only post needed was this:

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/5-21-2015/ut8MaV.gif

[andgar923]

Rodman used to guard Jordan in those series.

Rodman >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Diaw.

From time to time, he wasn't exclusive to guarding him.

But MJ would normally drive by him more times than not. Meanwhile, Bron has a hard time beating Diaw.

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

Great to get insight from a WNBA coach

[andgar923]

Rodman (the person actually guarding MJ, and more than likely responsible for guarding Bron) stated Bron would be average in the 80s and 90s. :confusedshrug:

[livinglegend]

Rodman (the person actually guarding MJ, and more than likely responsible for guarding Bron) stated Bron would be average in the 80s and 90s. :confusedshrug:

Bro, inhale slowly, then exhale... inhale, exhale...
Calm down.
It's going to be alright.
No need to be so upset.

[andgar923]

Bro, inhale slowly, then exhale... inhale, exhale...
Calm down.
It's going to be alright.
No need to be so upset.
You mad?:confusedshrug:

[Bernkastel]

Rodman (the person actually guarding MJ, and more than likely responsible for guarding Bron) stated Bron would be average in the 80s and 90s. :confusedshrug:

Tissue soft era.

[Solefade]

Great to get insight from a WNBA coach

this made me laugh

:roll: :roll:

[livinglegend]

You mad?:confusedshrug:
:roll: :roll: :roll:

[sportjames23]

Lebron has more skill than jordan. Jordan can score in a dominant fashion. but overall skills, Lebron is the most talented player we have ever seen.


"We"?

FOH, kid. MJ is easily more skilled than Bron.

Ballhandling, post game, shooting, you name it, MJ >>>> Bron.