Lebron's advanced playoff stats down this year

[Marchesk]

24.8 PER compared to 27.1 career, 31.1 last season

49.2 TS% compared to 57% career, 66.8% last season

13.5 TO% compared to 12.5% career, 12.9% last season

.181 WS/48 compared to .237 career, .270 last season

Lebron is getting some help from his teammates, no matter what the media or the Lebron family tries to tell you.

[Nash]

24.8 PER compared to 27.1 career, 31.1 last season

49.2 TS% compared to 57% career, 66.8% last season

13.5 TO% compared to 12.5% career, 12.9% last season

.181 WS/48 compared to .237 career, .270 last season

Lebron is getting some help from his teammates, no matter what the media or the Lebron family tries to tell you.
sure looked like he was getting all of that help with kyrie and love out.

[Marchesk]

sure looked like he was getting all of that help with kyrie and love out.

Maybe, just possibly, the Cavs have been better with them out. Not saying they won't need Kyrie against GSW, but they sure didn't need him for the Hawks. I also wonder whether Love is a good fit for Lebron.

[KembaWalker]

It's really getting old how people think LeBron is doing this on his own. JR. Shump. TT. Delly

All those dudes numbers are up from the regular season

[edrick]

It's really getting old that people don't realize why Lebron's stats are down, and the roleplayer stats are up. He just left a team that went to 4 straight Finals, that included Wade and Bosh. He is now playing with Delly, Shump, Moz, and TT... :roll:

Defenses are paying far more attention to him, because while the Cavs have some nice roleplayers, they are not Bosh or Wade. Which means those players do not demand defense like Wade or Bosh do. Delly, JR, Shump, etc. are all getting WIDE OPEN looks all the time. Also, Kyrie has barely played, and love has been out since the first round. Their numbers should be up.

[ImKobe]

sure looked like he was getting all of that help with kyrie and love out.

Tristan Thompson 9/10 on 59%FG, 1.3 bpg, 15.9 PER, .190 WS/48
Iman Shumpert 10/5 on 40%FG, 37% 3PT, 12.9 PER .152 WS/48
J.R Smith 14/5 on 46%FG, 40% 3PT, 17 PER, .192 WS/48
Timofey Mozgov 9/7 on 48%FG, 1.9 bpg, 16.2 PER, .151 WS/48
Kyrie Irving 19/3/4 on 44%FG, 48% 3PT, 20.3 PER, .217 WS/48

seems like he has more than enough teammates, who have provided efficient scoring, 3pt shooting, perimeter and interior defense

not to mention that their competition has been garbage up until the Finals

his teammates are shooting 40% from 3, that's the best in the Playoffs, their defense is the best in the Playoffs

but of course Lebron has been playing 1 v 5

none of Curry's teammates are posting a PER above 17, none of Curry's teammates have a WS/48 even remotely as high as his or above .156.

It's obvious that Cavs have stumbled their way through the East against the worst competition in the Playoffs.

[aburre21]

Tristan Thompson 9/10 on 59%FG, 1.3 bpg, 15.9 PER, .190 WS/48
Iman Shumpert 10/5 on 40%FG, 37% 3PT, 12.9 PER .152 WS/48
J.R Smith 14/5 on 46%FG, 40% 3PT, 17 PER, .192 WS/48
Timofey Mozgov 9/7 on 48%FG, 1.9 bpg, 16.2 PER, .151 WS/48
Kyrie Irving 19/3/4 on 44%FG, 48% 3PT, 20.3 PER, .217 WS/48

seems like he has more than enough teammates, who have provided efficient scoring, 3pt shooting, perimeter and interior defense

not to mention that their competition has been garbage up until the Finals

his teammates are shooting 40% from 3, that's the best in the Playoffs, their defense is the best in the Playoffs

but of course Lebron has been playing 1 v 5

none of Curry's teammates are posting a PER above 17, none of Curry's teammates have a WS/48 even remotely as high as his or above .156.

It's obvious that Cavs have stumbled their way through the East against the worst competition in the Playoffs.


Lebron haters are delusional. You think JR, Shump,Delly are creating those shots themselves?

[SexSymbol]

Lebron haters are delusional. You think JR, Shump,Delly are creating those shots themselves?
JR and Shump mostly create shots themselves, especially JR.

[KembaWalker]

Lebron haters are delusional. You think JR, Shump,Delly are creating those shots themselves?

I didn't know LeBron is hitting those shots for them either

[ImKobe]

Lebron haters are delusional. You think JR, Shump,Delly are creating those shots themselves?

Lebron's turnover ratio is pretty medicore and he disappears in 2nd halves and his shooting has been abysmal, you saw how in Game 1 he went ice cold in the 2nd half and had 1 assist to 2 turnovers and shot 4/13, and his teammates blew the Hawks out? Or how in his 37 pt game, he was missing shot after shot and was turning the ball over, and his teammates got them to OT and put him in a position to shoot that wide open corner 3 to win them the game?

Lebron has had some great stretches in the Playoffs, but there's a lot of bad basketball mixed into it, the consistency hasn't been there and the competition has been medicore at best. Their toughest competition was a Bulls team that was in turmoil and who missed their best player 2 out of 6 games in the series and who played injured except for Game 1...

There has been nothing impressive about the Cavs' Playoff run thus far, and the numbers show that. It's not like they have been going up against the best players in the league. Who is the best player the Cavs have faced so far? Pau Gasol in Game 1 of the Bulls series?

And if you look at his Playoff numbers alone, he's only really had ONE great game all run, where he was consistent all game, shot well from the field and didn't turn the ball over.

Cavs blew the Bulls out on their own floor in the elimination game with Lebron posting a 15 point game on 7/23 shooting. They even won twice when he had a negative +/- and he's shot below 50% in 10 out of 14 games and 4 times below 40% and 10 out of 14 games he's had 4 or more turnovers, yet they have a better W/L ratio than the Warriors.

Something doesn't add up here. Know what it is? Their competition.

[Nash]

the fact that some of you guys mention jr, shumpert, TT, Mozgov and Delly is beyond me. As if they are these special guys. Every damn team has their own JR, Shumpert and TT. But you never seem them this deep in the playoffs do you?

think about that for a second or two

[Trollsmasher]

LeBron is absorbing the ineffiency while making his teammates better. For example while he gets a ton of turnovers, Cavs' total TO % with him on the floor is pretty low because he is taking the care of the entire offense and it is still efficient as a whole

[ImKobe]

the fact that some of you guys mention jr, shumpert, TT, Mozgov and Delly is beyond me. As if they are these special guys. Every damn team has their own JR, Shumpert and TT. But you never seem them this deep in the playoffs do you?

think about that for a second or two

I'm just glad you guys will stop running your mouths once the Cavs get exposed in the Finals.

[KembaWalker]

the fact that some of you guys mention jr, shumpert, TT, Mozgov and Delly is beyond me. As if they are these special guys. Every damn team has their own JR, Shumpert and TT. But you never seem them this deep in the playoffs do you?

think about that for a second or two

So he's done it on his own?

[Nash]

So he's done it on his own?
you still don't get it, do you? You could change JR, TT, Shumpert and Mozgov with any half decent player on this league it would still be down to Lebron's dominance why they are in the finals.

[KembaWalker]

you still don't get it, do you? You could change JR, TT, Shumpert and Mozgov with any half decent player on this league it would still be down to Lebron's dominance why they are in the finals.

As it should be considering he is the best player on that team, but the notion where it's laughable to even mention any other players on his team as having an impact is just delusional

[pauk]

Ofcourse? Who ever didnt have "some help"? What the "Lebron family" only tells you is that he is excessively accountable for that to by putting them in best position possible to help him/the team, not to mention pushing them & leading by example.... its not like Lebron can just checkout and they now could create all those wideopen looks themselves and hence get to Finals & potentially win a championship...

This is why the likes of Magic, Bird or Lebron wins / had such an impact, they played the game the right way and had the nastiest skillset to really exploit that, to really exploit every square inch of whatever skill their teammates had.... where they often could win without scoring....

That context of making your teammates better... and ofcourse Lebron averaging close to a ~30 point triple double and hitting shots when it absolutely matters and his versatile defense is the reason where they are at.... and the reason why advanced stats dont matter here whatsoever...

[sd3035]

Old news, Lebaldo being carried

stacked team

[BlackVVaves]

you still don't get it, do you? You could change JR, TT, Shumpert and Mozgov with any half decent player on this league it would still be down to Lebron's dominance why they are in the finals.

So, essentially, you're saying the numbers are lying, misleading, and not depicting the full story?

[TheOne]

Bron's shooting is noticeably worse than last few seasons, even when he shoots those wide open shots. He also seemed to be thinking too much which led to many TOs.

Warriors should take advantage his poor shooting and just let him shoot.

[raprap]

Maybe because his 2nd and 3rd option are injured? Hmmm. :rolleyes:

[JerrySeinfeld]

would have gotten absolutely exposed and lost had he faced the grizzlies, clippers, spurs, warriors, or rockets before the finals.

but because he's out East and makes the finals every year despite losing in them most of the time, he's on Jordan's level...

:oldlol:

[edrick]

I'm just glad you guys will stop running your mouths once the Cavs get exposed in the Finals.

Exposed? The warriors are favored to win by oddsmakers. The Cavs are down 2 starters, possibly 3 if Kyrie can't go, and even if he plays, he probably won't be himself.

If the Cavs losing to the #1 ranked offense and defense qualifies as being exposed, then sure.

[Pointguard]

24.8 PER compared to 27.1 career, 31.1 last season

49.2 TS% compared to 57% career, 66.8% last season

13.5 TO% compared to 12.5% career, 12.9% last season

.181 WS/48 compared to .237 career, .270 last season

Lebron is getting some help from his teammates, no matter what the media or the Lebron family tries to tell you.
Aggression is more important than efficiency in great players. Last year Lebron was a study in efficiency. He would have been better off abandoning that and just keeping the pressure on SA. He didn't do it and he lost without looking like he had a response in him. Lebron is waaay more effective this year and every player on the team is a capitalizing on his play. He's a much better team player - and his teammates totally capitalize off of his play this year. They don't make the playoffs without him. This year, Lebron, with his aggression, is the only player that could carry a team. Rarely ever do efficient players carry a team. Efficient players are almost always a piece of the pie rather than a player that has to make things happen.

[ISHGoat]

Why Don't you lost his orpm/drpm too?

[NBASTATMAN]

It's really getting old that people don't realize why Lebron's stats are down, and the roleplayer stats are up. He just left a team that went to 4 straight Finals, that included Wade and Bosh. He is now playing with Delly, Shump, Moz, and TT... :roll:

Defenses are paying far more attention to him, because while the Cavs have some nice roleplayers, they are not Bosh or Wade. Which means those players do not demand defense like Wade or Bosh do. Delly, JR, Shump, etc. are all getting WIDE OPEN looks all the time. Also, Kyrie has barely played, and love has been out since the first round. Their numbers should be up.


I SEE YOUR POINT BUT HE HAS MISSED PLENTY OF LAYUPS HE ONCE MADE... I believe he is just not as athletic as in the past and he is having problems finishing because of that... He has been hurt thru out the playoffs as well


his jumper has been horrible as well

[PejaTheSerbSnip]

As it should be considering he is the best player on that team, but the notion where it's laughable to even mention any other players on his team as having an impact is just delusional
Yup

This is starting to get laughable. LeBron stans harbor a superiority complex to Kobe stans because of the latter's disapproval of advanced stats.....yet in the end, these same fans will disregard those statistics if they don't favor their favourite player.

And the facts speak for themselves: LeBrons 49.2 TS% this season is lower than even Kobes worst playoff run. This is despite opponents sagging off him at the 3pt line, taking a higher percentage of shots at the rim than the average player, and making 8 trips to the line a game.

Consider this: EVERY single player on the Cavs roster that has taken more than 6 shots this postseason has a TS% that is at least 40 points higher than LeBrons.

The notion that he has carried the Cavs is patently false.

[PejaTheSerbSnip]

Ofcourse? Who ever didnt have "some help"? What the "Lebron family" only tells you is that he is excessively accountable for that to by putting them in best position possible to help him/the team, not to mention pushing them & leading by example.... its not like Lebron can just checkout and they now could create all those wideopen looks themselves and hence get to Finals & potentially win a championship...

This is why the likes of Magic, Bird or Lebron wins / had such an impact, they played the game the right way and had the nastiest skillset to really exploit that, to really exploit every square inch of whatever skill their teammates had.... where they often could win without scoring....

That context of making your teammates better... and ofcourse Lebron averaging close to a ~30 point triple double and hitting shots when it absolutely matters and his versatile defense is the reason where they are at.... and the reason why advanced stats dont matter here whatsoever...


So they only matter at your convenience then

That's fine, just wish LeBron fans would be transparent about it. You guys cherry-pick as much as Kobe fans, who are looking much better by comparison. At least Kobe fans aren't masquerading as genuine proponents of advanced statistics.

"Hitting shots when it absolutely matters"..... A reference to the game-winner against the Bulls, yes? That is part of what you use to argue that they are where they are mainly because of LeBron? A game in which he scored 25 points on 30 shots, committed 8 turnovers and shot 1-6 in the last two or so minutes? Sorry, that's not passing the smell test. You can't play like ass for most of the game, hit a big shot and then have it all be erased. If LeBron even played 50% as well as he usually does, the game wouldn't have been close enough to require a last second game winner.