Could you play in the NBA if you had Wilt's physique?

[Dr Hawk]

Wilt, Shaq, LeBron or any other player's physique + your basketball skills. Could you at least be a benchwarmer?

[dubeta]

Wilt wasn't that impressive physique wise


6'11.25 without shoes

Weighed only 265 pounds at that height

Skinny legs, thighs, just overall poor lower body strength

And comparatively small arms as well.

Something no one else talks about, is that his explosiveness it really poor, does anyone have footage of Wilt doing a 'power' Shaq like dunk? Or a Dwight highlight-dunk? Wilt could only do the most basic of dunks, his explosiveness and leaping ability just wasn't there.

[senelcoolidge]

Of course. With a strong work ethic you could be more than a bench warmer. My skills when I played were ok. Streaky shooter and decent defender. Good passer too. So with Wilts physique...of course. I would be a starter in today's NBA. I had ok post moves, fakes and up and unders. I'd have to develop a big man's game.

[IncarceratedBob]

Duh. Basketball is 90% size and athleticism and 10% talent. If you give me Wilt's body and athleticism I'd be a hall of famer. I played D1 college ball for 2 years so I'm not even that good at basketball mostly because of my body and athleticism.

[Basketbolero]

I'd still be dumb as fvck so no
Agreed :cheers:

[Dr Hawk]

http://www.answersfrommen.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/wilt-1.jpg

[NBAplayoffs2001]

Wilt wasn't that impressive physique wise


6'11.25 without shoes

Weighed only 265 pounds at that height

Skinny legs, thighs, just overall poor lower body strength

And comparatively small arms as well.

Something no one else talks about, is that his explosiveness it really poor, does anyone have footage of Wilt doing a 'power' Shaq like dunk? Or a Dwight highlight-dunk? Wilt could only do the most basic of dunks, his explosiveness and leaping ability just wasn't there.

Please get a job.

[LAZERUSS]

Wilt wasn't that impressive physique wise


6'11.25 without shoes

Weighed only 265 pounds at that height

Skinny legs, thighs, just overall poor lower body strength

And comparatively small arms as well.

Something no one else talks about, is that his explosiveness it really poor, does anyone have footage of Wilt doing a 'power' Shaq like dunk? Or a Dwight highlight-dunk? Wilt could only do the most basic of dunks, his explosiveness and leaping ability just wasn't there.

Maybe you can provide us with your research on the area of his PEAK height, weight, and "small arms."

Because there is a TON of info out there that suggests that Wilt's maximum height...at a MINIMUM...was nearly 7-1 1/2 barefoot (and even his own physician claimed he was 7-3.) There are articles which had Wilt, in the 60's mind you...at up to 320 lbs. (again, in the 1960's), and numerous articles with him at well over 300 after that (and as high as 327.)

Small arms? CavsFTW provided an article with Chamberlain with 23" arms. Whether that is true, or not, the overwhelming evidence that exists, suggests that Wilt was the strongest basketball player of all-time.

And I'm surprised you didn't mention his vertical, which HAD to have bordered on 42".

So, please, provide us here with this NEW-FOUND research of a 6-11 1/4, 265 scrawny Wilt. And also, please don't give us a photo of a high school Wilt as some kind of example. We all want PEAK numbers.

[CavaliersFTW]

Wilt wasn't that impressive physique wise


6'11.25 without shoes

Weighed only 265 pounds at that height

Skinny legs, thighs, just overall poor lower body strength

And comparatively small arms as well.

Something no one else talks about, is that his explosiveness it really poor, does anyone have footage of Wilt doing a 'power' Shaq like dunk? Or a Dwight highlight-dunk? Wilt could only do the most basic of dunks, his explosiveness and leaping ability just wasn't there.
Your 'facts' here are all incorrect.

Please cite just one of them. For example, cite that his height was "only" 6-11 and 1/4 without shoes.

[sejoon101]

Maybe you can provide us with your research on the area of his PEAK height, weight, and "small arms."

Because there is a TON of info out there that suggests that Wilt's maximum height...at a MINIMUM...was nearly 7-1 1/2 barefoot (and even his own physician claimed he was 7-3.) There are articles which had Wilt, in the 60's mind you...at up to 320 lbs. (again, in the 1960's), and numerous articles with him at well over 300 after that (and as high as 327.)

Small arms? CavsFTW provided an article with Chamberlain with 23" arms. Whether that is true, or not, the overwhelming evidence that exists, suggests that Wilt was the strongest basketball player of all-time.

And I'm surprised you didn't mention his vertical, which HAD to have bordered on 42".

So, please, provide us here with this NEW-FOUND research of a 6-11 1/4, 265 scrawny Wilt. And also, please don't give us a photo of a high school Wilt as some kind of example. We all want PEAK numbers.

I lurk more than enough to know that you and cavsfml are just as bad with Wilt as 3ball is with MJ, but seriously.... you. Dumb. Ass. Nikka. 23 inch arms at 42 vertical at 7ft 3. Somehow a basketball player in the 60s has the same arm size as Ronnie Coleman in the offseason while being able to jump higher than Rose. Smfh

[SexSymbol]

I'd be very good all-around player, I have handles, post moves and long range shot. I believe I'd be a slightly worse version of Dirk mixed up with a slighty better version of Howard.
Basically, I'd be the best big man in the NBA

[ClipperRevival]

I would be better than Wilt. He was great but skills during his era were primitive compared to today's game. As someone said, at the NBA level, you need to be certain height/size with a certain level of athleticism just to compete.

Most guys in the NBA hit the genetic lottery. Simple as that. There are so many great basketball players all around the world. They just weren't blessed with the right genetics to even have a chance even if their skills might be on par or better than NBA level players.

[SexSymbol]

When I look at somebody like Javale McGee, who is even smaller than Wilt, but doesn't have his strength, any skills at all, and he's making like 10 mil a year it kinda shows, that with Wilt's body and my skills I'd be easily the best player in the league, not even just a big man

[ClipperRevival]

I look at a guy like Wesley Johnson and I just shake my head because he has the perfect wing size and athleticism yet lacks the skills and bball iq to be a dominant player. Because if success came down just to measurables, he should be an elite player. What a waste of talent. There was not much separating him from a guy like Pippen in terms of the measurables.

[coin24]

wilt had 23" biceps, could dunk from today's 3 point line, wrestled mountain lions and got slayed by so many dudes :bowdown: :bowdown:

[CavaliersFTW]

I lurk more than enough to know that you and cavsfml are just as bad with Wilt as 3ball is with MJ, but seriously.... you. Dumb. Ass. Nikka. 23 inch arms at 42 vertical at 7ft 3. Somehow a basketball player in the 60s has the same arm size as Ronnie Coleman in the offseason while being able to jump higher than Rose. Smfh
Wilt claimed that in the 1980's - when he did have remarkably big looking arms. Ever seen some of his interviews with Bob Costas back then?

His max reach is cited as 12 feet 6 inches at KU, 13 feet his first season in the NBA, and 12 feet 9 inches in 1968. You can choose to believe none of this that's fine that's entirely up to you, but that's what was reported at the time. Indicating a 36, 42, and 39 inch vertical at various stages of his playing career based on his standing reach.

7 foot 3 is pretty much how tall he could/would list if he played today. Hasheem Thabeet listed 7 foot 3, he was 7 foot 1 and 1/4 without shoes. Wilt was 7 foot 1 and 1/16th without shoes. Basically the same height.

You can try and equate me to 3ball all you want as a means to insult me but we aren't similar posters, sorry.

[CJ Mustard]

In that era? I could've played in the NBA with my current physique.

[CavaliersFTW]

I would be better than Wilt. He was great but skills during his era were primitive compared to today's game. As someone said, at the NBA level, you need to be certain height/size with a certain level of athleticism just to compete.

Most guys in the NBA hit the genetic lottery. Simple as that. There are so many great basketball players all around the world. They just weren't blessed with the right genetics to even have a chance even if their skills might be on par or better than NBA level players.
You don't shatter records merely by winning the genetic lottery. You've also got to be insanely competitive and skilled.

If you think you've got what it takes, when you aren't the "greatest" at anything else in life at this present time with what body and mind you've got right now, then you've probably got an inflated sense of self.

[JimmyMcAdocious]

I'm a billionaire's Cousy, and it would take me like 10 minutes in that body to realize I could dunk on everyone whenever I wanted. So I wouldn't underachieve like those guys.

[Jameerthefear]

Wilt wasn't that impressive physique wise


6'11.25 without shoes

Weighed only 265 pounds at that height

Skinny legs, thighs, just overall poor lower body strength

And comparatively small arms as well.

Something no one else talks about, is that his explosiveness it really poor, does anyone have footage of Wilt doing a 'power' Shaq like dunk? Or a Dwight highlight-dunk? Wilt could only do the most basic of dunks, his explosiveness and leaping ability just wasn't there.
This. Good post.

[sd3035]

Almost anyone who isn't retarded would have a chance in prime Shaq's body.

Lebron, only someone with some skills.

Wilt...well even Wilt in his own body would be lucky to crack the D league in this era

[CavaliersFTW]

it would take me like 10 minutes in that body to realize I could dunk on everyone whenever I wanted. So I wouldn't underachieve like those guys.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-loC9p6Je-xc/VWojMGeqY6I/AAAAAAAAGWk/A2UE1eFmfhA/s1280/Russell%252520on%252520Wilt%252520only%252520dunki ng.jpg

[Dr Hawk]

article

Wow

[Dr Hawk]

In that era? I could've played in the NBA with my current physique.

What about todasy?

[Trollsmasher]

Easily. I would also likely win more titles, because as an average person I am less likely to choke them away than Wilt

[secund2nun]

I lurk more than enough to know that you and cavsfml are just as bad with Wilt as 3ball is with MJ, but seriously.... you. Dumb. Ass. Nikka. 23 inch arms at 42 vertical at 7ft 3. Somehow a basketball player in the 60s has the same arm size as Ronnie Coleman in the offseason while being able to jump higher than Rose. Smfh

It's a classic case of "back in my day we used to walk 100 miles in snow to school each day with 500 pound anvils on our ankles while running 40 mpg and fighting off grizzlies"

Wilt is the only known creature on earth to continue evolving after his death. It's only a matter of time before Wilt breaks all of Michael Phelp's swimming records and wins the 2016 Heisman award.

Wilt Chamberlain is like Tupac the way he comes out with all of these records after his death.

[Jameerthefear]

It's a classic case of "back in my day we used to walk 100 miles in snow to school each day with 500 pound anvils on our ankles while running 40 mpg and fighting off grizzlies"

Wilt is the only known creature on earth to continue evolving after his death. It's only a matter of time before Wilt breaks all of Michael Phelp's swimming records and wins the 2016 Heisman award.

Wilt Chamberlain is like Tupac the way he comes out with all of these records after his death.
:roll: :roll: :roll:

[SexSymbol]

It's a classic case of "back in my day we used to walk 100 miles in snow to school each day with 500 pound anvils on our ankles while running 40 mpg and fighting off grizzlies"

Wilt is the only known creature on earth to continue evolving after his death. It's only a matter of time before Wilt breaks all of Michael Phelp's swimming records and wins the 2016 Heisman award.

Wilt Chamberlain is like Tupac the way he comes out with all of these records after his death.
You're a horribly terrible idiot, but that's funny, so you've done something in your life that is actually good for once

[r0drig0lac]

It's a classic case of "back in my day we used to walk 100 miles in snow to school each day with 500 pound anvils on our ankles while running 40 mpg and fighting off grizzlies"

Wilt is the only known creature on earth to continue evolving after his death. It's only a matter of time before Wilt breaks all of Michael Phelp's swimming records and wins the 2016 Heisman award.

Wilt Chamberlain is like Tupac the way he comes out with all of these records after his death.
Hahaha

[oarabbus]

It's a classic case of "back in my day we used to walk 100 miles in snow to school each day with 500 pound anvils on our ankles while running 40 mpg and fighting off grizzlies"

Wilt is the only known creature on earth to continue evolving after his death. It's only a matter of time before Wilt breaks all of Michael Phelp's swimming records and wins the 2016 Heisman award.

Wilt Chamberlain is like Tupac the way he comes out with all of these records after his death.



:roll:

[CavaliersFTW]

It's a classic case of "back in my day we used to walk 100 miles in snow to school each day with 500 pound anvils on our ankles while running 40 mpg and fighting off grizzlies"

Wilt is the only known creature on earth to continue evolving after his death. It's only a matter of time before Wilt breaks all of Michael Phelp's swimming records and wins the 2016 Heisman award.

Wilt Chamberlain is like Tupac the way he comes out with all of these records after his death.
Lebrons entire "Heat fan" base also did that

[midatlantic09]

With the basketball skills I have now, at 7'0 250, I'd probably be a top 10 NBA player right now. Not even joking. I was all-city in high school (large east coast city) and was pretty good in college (low D1) and I'm only 5'11/6'0, so at 7'0 250, I'd be a monster.

Of course, maintaining the same ball handling/quickness/speed/etc would be pretty difficult to do as a 7 footer.

[CavaliersFTW]

With the basketball skills I have now, at 7'0 250, I'd probably be a top 10 NBA player right now. Not even joking.

Of course, maintaining the same ball handling/quickness/speed/etc would be pretty difficult to do as a 7 footer.
What many people are failing to comprehend.

There's a reason 7 footers and 300 pound guys don't build careers out of taking people off the dribble. Certain skill sets, for example creating space with dribbling face-up, are designed to exploit physical matchups like being low to the ground and having quickness advantage over an opponent.

Being 7 feet 1 and weighing 300 pounds means you aren't going to be able to outdribble the quicker little guys even if you practiced it your entire life of being a 6 foot 1 200 pounder.

Wilt, having played a lifetime at his size, probably knows/knew best how to capitalize on his physical gifts. His records and accolades are pretty much a proof of that. And no disrespect but I think anyone who thinks they'd do better than an all-time great with their bodies has an inflated sense of self. Those players made great sacrifices to their lives and had incredible drive and work ethic. If any of us had that comparable drive and work ethic necessary to get where they got in their lives we probably wouldn't be posting on insidehoops. Then again I don't know your resume with basketball. I suppose a few on ISH might have been held back more by talent than by hardwork.

[Dr Hawk]

One thing that I think people are ignoring is the mental aspect. Being an NBA player means being under a lot of pressure. Do you guys think you would be ready to put up with the pressure even if you could be a good player with Wilt's physique + your basketball skills?

[ClipperRevival]

You don't shatter records merely by winning the genetic lottery. You've also got to be insanely competitive and skilled.

If you think you've got what it takes, when you aren't the "greatest" at anything else in life at this present time with what body and mind you've got right now, then you've probably got an inflated sense of self.

It might've come across as excessive but I just know I would've left no stone unturned had I been blessed with Wilt's body and athleticism. And the game in Wilt's days, in terms of overall skill, was less advanced than it is right now.

I am 38 and only 5'7". Played this game my whole life. And obviously at this age I have lost a lot of the natural athleticism I had when I was much younger. But I didn't take the game that seriously in my younger days. Just use my quickness to get by guys. Today, I can no longer go by guys. I have to use skills, bball iq and anticipation to beat the younger and more athletic guys. And I can usually do that because I have been working on my game as I have aged and my skill level is pretty high. You get out of the game what you put into it. So like I said, had I been blessed with Wilt's size and athleticism, I would've maximized my talents. I am not sure if Wilt did.

[CavaliersFTW]

It might've come across as excessive but I just know I would've left no stone unturned had I been blessed with Wilt's body and athleticism. And the game in Wilt's days, in terms of overall skill, was less advanced than it is right now.

I am 38 and only 5'7". Played this game my whole life. And obviously at this age I have lost a lot of the natural athleticism I had when I was much younger. But I didn't take the game that seriously in my younger days. Just use my quickness to get by guys. Today, I can no longer go by guys. I have to use skills, bball iq and anticipation to beat the younger and more athletic guys. And I can usually do that because I have been working on my game as I have aged and my skill level is pretty high. You get out of the game what you put into it. So like I said, had I been blessed with Wilt's size and athleticism, I would've maximized my talents. I am not sure if Wilt did.
At 38 you must realize how arrogant that sounds. The guy that didn't just try and get near, he shattered every conceivable record in his time - I mean like the kind of records that aren't even touchable to this day. He put most of them so far out of sight they still haven't been touched and had the league and the fans of his time convinced he was superhuman. That person didn't maximize their talents? And you believe you would have? There were other athletic 7 footers in his time. They didn't sniff his achievements. But you would have not only sniffed them, you would have done even better. Do you realize how hard he worked to have the abilities he had? He isn't just a big guy who rode his talent and nothing else.

I'm sure at your age you're much more familiar with Michael Jordan. If you had Michael Jordan's body would you also have been better than Michael Jordan? If your answer is the same at least your consistent.

[ILLsmak]

Easily. I would be a monster.

Even if we'd have to adjust our skillset for height, I'd still be a monster.

The only thing that would keep me out of the NBA would be locker room issues.

-Smak

[ClipperRevival]

At 38 you must realize how arrogant that sounds. The guy that didn't just try and get near, he shattered every conceivable record in his time - I mean like the kind of records that aren't even touchable to this day. He put most of them so far out of sight they still haven't been touched and had the league and the fans of his time convinced he was superhuman. That person didn't maximize their talents? And you believe you would have? There were other athletic 7 footers in his time. They didn't sniff his achievements. But you would have not only sniffed them, you would have done even better. Do you realize how hard he worked to have the abilities he had? He isn't just a big guy who rode his talent and nothing else.

I'm sure at your age you're much more familiar with Michael Jordan. If you had Michael Jordan's body would you also have been better than Michael Jordan? If your answer is the same at least your consistent.

I know you are a huge Wilt fan so this must annoy you in a bad way. I respect the guy and what he accomplished but to compare his "skills" to MJ's "skills" is an insult. Wilt over powered people with his physical size and athleticism when the talent pool and skill level in the NBA wasn't what it is today. He was like Shaq. A skilled big but what set him apart from the rest was his size and athleticism at that size.

I love this game. I have a passion for the pure, aspects of the game. I am a purist. And all I am saying is I would've left no stone unturned. I know my skill level. It's not arrogance, it's knowing I put in hours every week working on my game for the last 15 years. I know what I can do on the basketball court at my age and my lack of athleticism because I play against the young bucks every few days. Skills matter. And that is exactly why I am saying if I had Wilt's size and athleticism, I have no doubt I would be pretty freaken special.

What skills do Deandre Jordan have? The guy is primarily what he is because he hit the genetic lottery. Sure, he has I proved his game but are you going to sit there and say he has maximized his talents?

[CavaliersFTW]

I know you are a huge Wilt fan so this must annoy you in a bad way. I respect the guy and what he accomplished but to compare his "skills" to MJ's "skills" is an insult. Wilt over powered people with his physical size and athleticism when the talent pool and skill level in the NBA wasn't what it is today. He was like Shaq. A skilled big but what set him apart from the rest was his size and athleticism at that size.

I love this game. I have a passion for the pure, aspects of the game. I am a purist. And all I am saying is I would've left no stone unturned. I know my skill level. It's not arrogance, it's knowing I put in hours every week working on my game for the last 15 years. I know what I can do on the basketball court at my age and my lack of athleticism because I play against the young bucks every few days. Skills matter. And that is exactly why I am saying if I had Wilt's size and athleticism, I have no doubt I would be pretty freaken special.

What skills do Deandre Jordan have? The guy is primarily what he is because he hit the genetic lottery. Sure, he has I proved his game but are you going to sit there and say he has maximized his talents?
You didn't just say special, you implied you'd be better than Wilt Chamberlain. If that's what you believe that'd be an inflated sense of self. And/or a poor understanding of how Wilt Chamberlain actually got to where he got and accomplished what he accomplished.

He was no Deandre Jordan. And as with any of the GOAT-tier players that have played the game, he also would have left no stone unturned. Only unlike you he probably did so with a gifted mind that comprehends and reacts on a basketball floor a fair bit better than most, and has a competitive drive even stronger than you do. If you had a mind like the GOAT players, you'd have made it far in basketball, even at 5-7.

As Michael Jordan once said to a fan that told him Clyde Drexler was a better 3 point shooter than he was, Jordan responded with "Drexler is a better 3 point shooter than I CHOOSE to be." This is the mentality of pretty much any of the GOAT players.

A lot of people might make the NBA being 7-1 and 225 (that's how he started out, that's how you'd have to start out that 300lb frame didn't just magically appear) but doubt you'd play better than Wilt. Or bulk up to his size and become as good an athlete. Doubt you could make half the impact he did. Seriously. He was doing work against prime Nate Thurmond, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar and Bill Russell. Played against these guys 3 times as many times as you would in a 30 team league era. Don't give me that weak competition nonsense. You would have his body as a template? Great, you wouldn't have his mind. His mind was behind his success as much as his body. Your saying you have the mind of a GOAT caliber player. If that's the case, 5-7 or not why aren't you in the NBA.

[ClipperRevival]

You didn't just say special, you said implied you'd be better than Wilt Chamberlain. If that's what you believe that'd be an inflated sense of self. And/or a poor understanding of how Wilt Chamberlain actually got to where he got and accomplished what he accomplished.

He was no Deandre Jordan. And as with any of the GOAT-tier players that have played the game, he also would have left no stone unturned. Only unlike you he probably did so with a gifted mind that comprehends and reacts on a basketball floor a fair bit better than most, and has a competitive drive even stronger than you do. If you had a mind like the GOAT players, you'd have made it far in basketball, even at 5-7.

As Michael Jordan once said to a fan that told him Clyde Drexler was a better 3 point shooter than he was, Jordan responded with "Drexler is a better 3 point shooter than I CHOOSE to be."

Doubt you'd play better than Wilt. Seriously. You'd be playing against prime Nate Thurmond, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar and Bill Russell. You'd play against these guys 3 times as many times as you would in a 30 team league era. Don't give me that weak era nonsense.

And I respect what you said. Of course, my opinion is just my opinion. I just love the game too much to know that I would've dedicated myself to the max. Heck, I am 38, 5'7" and lost a lot of athleticism but my skills get better everyday. Basketball is beautiful because if you put in the work, you get better. It would've been nice to be blessed with Wilt's body and athleticism.

[ILLsmak]

I know you are a huge Wilt fan so this must annoy you in a bad way. I respect the guy and what he accomplished but to compare his "skills" to MJ's "skills" is an insult. Wilt over powered people with his physical size and athleticism when the talent pool and skill level in the NBA wasn't what it is today. He was like Shaq. A skilled big but what set him apart from the rest was his size and athleticism at that size.

I love this game. I have a passion for the pure, aspects of the game. I am a purist. And all I am saying is I would've left no stone unturned. I know my skill level. It's not arrogance, it's knowing I put in hours every week working on my game for the last 15 years. I know what I can do on the basketball court at my age and my lack of athleticism because I play against the young bucks every few days. Skills matter. And that is exactly why I am saying if I had Wilt's size and athleticism, I have no doubt I would be pretty freaken special.

What skills do Deandre Jordan have? The guy is primarily what he is because he hit the genetic lottery. Sure, he has I proved his game but are you going to sit there and say he has maximized his talents?

No way to tell. Have you ever been really good at something? Like good enough to say you had potential to be one of the best in the world?

What about if you were with what would be an 'average' (by professional standards) effort? Would you really work hard to improve your FTs by 2%?

Plus it's arguable whether, when you are that type of talent, you can really adjust what you are given or you just 'grow into it.' Some people are just gifted. I think that the mistake people make is that people who are gifted can grow as much as the people who work much harder, but I dunno if that's true.

DJ came in the league and that was his gift... his athleticism. Wilt was a bit more than that.

It's like people think Rasheed Wallace could have become better because they keep scrutinizing his game and saying well he could have done this a bit better... I dunno if it works that way.

Also, DJ has improved dramatically, I'd say. He's just not shooting jumpers... and probably never will be.

Edit: I mean 'work' like rote work. Everyone works on their game, even if it's just in their head. I don't buy for a second that any of these dudes are just like party party... get up and play bball, and are great.

-Smak

[Mrofir]

I'm a pretty decent player -- good defender, good passer, good shooter, understand the game reasonably well in real time, pretty quick, and I'm definitely very elusive and crafty with the ball.

But I'm 5'8. When I get arm bar defense in pick up games it bothers the hell out of me and physical defense that stretches the ref has always been a tough thing for me to deal with in "real games" as well. Having another 10 inches of height, I'd probably have a much easier time with that, perhaps I'd be good enough for D1 ball if I get to keep my skills and solid sense of coordination. I scrimmaged with decent D3 players and though I was the shortest, I fit in as an adequate player, didn't "fit out" as some might say, so I felt good about that.

The Wilt example is a little silly because anyone with Wilt's physique would have a reasonable shot at making the nba imo. Exponentially better than a typical person. On the other hand, I think a lot of people here are grossly underestimating the skill level of even the most scrubby nba player. Anyone in the nba under 7 ft is REALLY good at basketball. Anyone under 6'10 in the nba is INSANELY good at basketball and would probably crush most of us in a pick up game even with a 12 inch handicap on height.

[CavaliersFTW]

I'm a pretty decent player -- good defender, good passer, good shooter, understand the game reasonably well in real time, pretty quick, and I'm definitely very elusive and crafty with the ball.

But I'm 5'8. When I get arm bar defense in pick up games it bothers the hell out of me and physical defense that stretches the ref has always been a tough thing for me to deal with in "real games" as well. Having another 10 inches of height, I'd probably have a much easier time with that, perhaps I'd be good enough for D1 ball if I get to keep my skills and solid sense of coordination.

The Wilt example is a little silly because anyone with Wilt's physique would have a reasonable shot at making the nba imo. Exponentially better than a typical person.
I don't doubt this one bit though I would add you have to know the game of basketball. And remember, Wilt wasn't 7-1 300 pounds as a raw template. He was 7-1 and 225. You'd start out skinny. Could you bulk up to 300 pounds? Could you become Track and Field fast/agile? Would you? He put in work at all those things for years and years.

While I don't doubt that being 7-1 225 grants you a much much much higher chance of "making it" in the NBA than someone who's more like 6 feet tall, I raise an eyebrow when someone thinks they'd be as good or better than he was with his body.

It's not just with Wilt it's with any single one of the really really great basketball players that have played. Michael Jordan, Magic Johnson, Larry Bird, Bill Russell, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Shaq, Barkley etc on down the line. I feel like those guys had gifted minds and determination that set them apart, not just physical abilities beyond our own. Even if you look at any one of them and say "aha but they aren't skilled like I am in ___ or ___ scenarios" I believe like what Michael Jordan said about a fan that criticized his 3 point shooting. That they chose where to put in work to make their physical abilities shine brightest, and that their gifted basketball minds made the correct choices how to manage their time and stay motivated and work hard and make quick decisions on the floor probably better than any of us would.

[Mrofir]

I don't doubt this one bit though I would add you have to know the game of basketball. And remember, Wilt wasn't 7-1 300 pounds as a raw template. He was 7-1 and 225. You'd start out skinny. Could you bulk up to 300 pounds? Could you become Track and Field fast/agile? Would you? He put in work at all those things for years and years.

While I don't doubt that being 7-1 225 grants you a much much much higher chance of "making it" in the NBA than someone who's more like 6 feet tall, I raise an eyebrow when someone thinks they'd be as good or better than he was with his body.

It's not just with Wilt it's with any single one of the really really great basketball players that have played. Michael Jordan, Magic Johnson, Larry Bird, Bill Russell, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Shaq, Barkley etc on down the line. I feel like those guys had gifted minds and determination that set them apart, not just physical abilities beyond our own. Even if you look at any one of them and say "aha but they aren't skilled like I am in ___ or ___ scenarios" I believe like what Michael Jordan said about a fan that criticized his 3 point shooting. That they chose where to put in work to make their physical abilities shine brightest, and that their gifted basketball minds made the correct choices how to manage their time and stay motivated and work hard and make quick decisions on the floor probably better than any of us would.



Absolutely agree with basically your entire post.

I'd still stand behind my statement that anyone with Wilt's physique is probably 10,000 times more likely to make the nba than a typical person, but that doesn't mean that the odds at that point are good.

If the typical person has a 1/500,000 chance of making the nba, and that may be generous -- and a person with wilt's physique has a 10,000x better chance of making it, you're still looking at 1:50 odds. And that's just to make it into the league. So I guess by "reasonable" I just meant -- better than laughable.

These guys are crazy good. I'm sure that 99% of the ISH community could not even keep a dribble alive and maintain possession for more than 5 seconds against nba level defense. I doubt I could, and I'm quite capable of making people look like idiots defending me in pickup games.

[navy]

I know you are a huge Wilt fan so this must annoy you in a bad way. I respect the guy and what he accomplished but to compare his "skills" to MJ's "skills" is an insult. Wilt over powered people with his physical size and athleticism when the talent pool and skill level in the NBA wasn't what it is today. He was like Shaq. A skilled big but what set him apart from the rest was his size and athleticism at that size.


The funny thing about Wilt is that the exact opposite is true.

Not sure why CavsFTW didnt mention it, im sure at this point is that he is well aware.

Wilt was not like Shaq who used his strength and size to dominate people. I mean dont get me wrong, it's impossible to get shorter, but Wilt liked to show off his skills and not his body to a perplexing degree. One handed fadeaways, turnarounds, hook shoots, jumpers,finger rolls, odd scoop shots.

Now I've seen several theories/reasons as to why this was. One being the rules didnt allow people people to just use their physical strength and presence to dominate and they would be called for fouls. There is an interview of Wilt criticizing Shaq's scoring saying he couldn't get away with it or something like that. Another thing I saw posted by ISH's residential historian Kblaze was that Wilt precisely wanted to shoot down the notion of big men just playing big men ball and show how "finesse" for lack of a better term they could be. I dont know the real reason, perhaps only Wilt does.

Wilt is a guy who would rather or more likely than not take a fadeaway shot than back a man down and literally drop the ball in on his head. He could do both. Score as much as he wanted. We know now he should have and could have been Shaq MDE.

Wilt was no Shaq.

[secund2nun]

Lebrons entire "Heat fan" base also did that

Lebron fans like myself usually don't claim to be Miami or Cleveland fans. We make it clear that we are Lebron fans.

[Real14]

I would play in tha NBA if I had iverson's physique

[CavaliersFTW]

The funny thing about Wilt is that the exact opposite is true.

Not sure why CavsFTW didnt mention it, im sure at this point is that he is well aware.

Wilt was not like Shaq who used his strength and size to dominate people. I mean dont get me wrong, it's impossible to get shorter, but Wilt liked to show off his skills and not his body to a perplexing degree. One handed fadeaways, turnarounds, hook shoots, jumpers,finger rolls, odd scoop shots.

Now I've seen several theories/reasons as to why this was. One being the rules didnt allow people people to just use their physical strength and presence to dominate and they would be called for fouls. There is an interview of Wilt criticizing Shaq's scoring saying he couldn't get away with it or something like that. Another thing I saw posted by ISH's residential historian Kblaze was that Wilt precisely wanted to shoot down the notion of big men just playing big men ball and show how "finesse" for lack of a better term they could be. I dont know the real reason, perhaps only Wilt does.

Wilt is a guy who would rather or more likely than not take a fadeaway shot than back a man down and literally drop the ball in on his head. He could do both. Score as much as he wanted. We know now he should have and could have been Shaq MDE.

Wilt was no Shaq.
I didn't mention it because there's still a lot of overlap in how Wilt and Shaq used their size. It's true charging fouls were called much more often in Wilt's era, but it's also true Wilt didn't want to physically beat the **** out of you in the paint (I mean like physically try to hurt you) unless you instigated him first (and players and some film does testify/indicate that Wilt indeed WOULD go into you hard like that if you got him riled up first... the difference is Shaq would play that physical and mean even WITHOUT other players instigating it).

From what I've watched I don't think Wilt was opting for fadeaways as his first priority shot, I think that was his 3rd priority shot. Due to rules, and due to again not wanting to run his opponents over that were playing a non-physical game. From watching film it looks like Wilt wants the layup or dunk 9 times out of 10, but it isn't always available when there's bodies in the way so his 2nd priority is a finger roll to the middle a bit further out. His 3rd priority if the middle is also clogged is to fade away. This of course doesn't take passing into consideration either, this is just when Wilt was looking to score.

Shaq used these same three priorities in a half court situation as well, he'd opt to dunk it or lay it up 9 times out of 10 too. But unlike Wilt, he'd be more inclined to run someone over or use a little bit of english with his elbows and shoulders and be much less hesitant to actually physically beat on guys and embarrass them not only with points but with bruises. Offensive foul or not, I don't know that Wilt would have been so hell bent on inflicting the kind of physical pain on his opponents Shaq would sometimes do to get to the hoop even if the rules were different. Shaq was doing things that the rules in Wilt's time didn't allow for in large part because Shaq was pushing the boundaries and making refs re-evaluate what a charge was. But still sometimes Shaq couldn't go baseline for a dunk or layup so just like Wilt his 2nd option was to the middle, Shaq would "jump hook" with the same footwork and range as Wilt's finger roll. Shaq's 3rd priority shot was a jumper of his own, but it was not as reliable or polished looking as Wilt's fall away I don't think, so I think Shaq was bulling his way inside more aggressively not just because he was meaner in a way, but also out of some necessity. But it'd be a bit of both I think. Again, I believe these guys chose where to refine their physical abilities probably better than any of us would. There is a lot of overlap though, there's plenty of footage of Shaq doing finesse moves. And there's plenty of footage of Wilt straight wrecking guys in the paint. The difference is the frequency.

[navy]

I didn't mention it because there's still a lot of overlap in how Wilt and Shaq used their size. It's true charging fouls were called much more often in Wilt's era, but it's also true Wilt didn't want to physically beat the **** out of you in the paint (I mean like physically try to hurt you) unless you instigated him first (and players and some film does testify/indicate that Wilt indeed WOULD go into you hard like that if you got him riled up first... the difference is Shaq would play that physical and mean even WITHOUT other players instigating it).

From what I've watched I don't think Wilt was opting for fadeaways as his first priority shot, I think that was his 3rd priority shot. Due to rules, and due to again not wanting to run his opponents over that were playing a non-physical game. From watching film it looks like Wilt wants the layup or dunk 9 times out of 10, but it isn't always available when there's bodies in the way so his 2nd priority is a finger roll to the middle a bit further out. His 3rd priority if the middle is also clogged is to fade away. This of course doesn't take passing into consideration either, this is just when Wilt was looking to score.

Shaq used these same three priorities in a half court situation as well, he'd opt to dunk it or lay it up 9 times out of 10 too. But unlike Wilt, he'd be more inclined to run someone over or use a little bit of english with his elbows and shoulders and be much less hesitant to actually physically beat on guys and embarrass them not only with points but with bruises. Offensive foul or not, I don't know that Wilt would have been so hell bent on inflicting the kind of physical pain on his opponents Shaq would sometimes do to get to the hoop even if the rules were different. Shaq was doing things that the rules in Wilt's time didn't allow for in large part because Shaq was pushing the boundaries and making refs re-evaluate what a charge was. But still sometimes Shaq couldn't go baseline for a dunk or layup so just like Wilt his 2nd option was to the middle, Shaq would "jump hook" with the same footwork and range as Wilt's finger roll. Shaq's 3rd priority shot was a jumper of his own, but it was not as reliable or polished looking as Wilt's fall away I don't think, so I think Shaq was bulling his way inside more aggressively not just because he was meaner in a way, but also out of some necessity. But it'd be a bit of both I think. Again, I believe these guys chose where to refine their physical abilities probably better than any of us would. There is a lot of overlap though, there's plenty of footage of Shaq doing finesse moves. And there's plenty of footage of Wilt straight wrecking guys in the paint. The difference is the frequency.

I not gonna pretend like im ISH's residential Wilt expert, but I've seen way too much stuff about Wilt opting for fadeaways as opposed to "good shots" for it just to be something he did when he ran out of scoring options. It's just odd how often he used it and shots like it and how it was talked about. Including by himself...

Take that as you will.

[CavaliersFTW]

I not gonna pretend like im ISH's residential Wilt expert, but I've seen way too much stuff about Wilt opting for fadeaways as opposed to "good shots" for it just to be something he did when he ran out of scoring options. It's just odd how often he used it and shots like it and how it was talked about. Including by himself...

Take that as you will.
If you assert that he took it even when better shots were available than it would be awfully easy to prove me wrong.

All you have to do is count how many times he decides not go baseline and takes a fadeaway shot when the baseline is clearly and demonstrably open:
https://youtu.be/G94iJr8ZbzM?t=19m

That's all his known made baskets on film from HS to NCAA to NBA level. From what I can see with my own eyes, he goes baseline when it's open. And he goes to the middle when it's open. He shoots a fall away when those aren't there. That indicates to me it's his priority #3 shot. Like I said this is very easy to prove me wrong here so go ahead and watch the film if you don't believe me. He doesn't take those fall away shots for no reason.

[navy]

If you assert that it isn't his priority one shot, and that he took it even when better shots open than it would be awfully easy to prove or demonstrate.

Show me how often he takes a fadeaway shot when he's posted up and the baseline - what I claimed was his primary option, is open:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G94iJr8ZbzM

That's all his known made baskets on film from HS to NCAA to NBA level.
I cant prove it obviously. As you said yourself he was much less often to play "aggressively" than Shaq. Which implies what type of shots?

Why?

Well that's the question.

[warriorfan]

Give Wilt Shaq's officiating and you would see some brutal shit from the dipper

[CavaliersFTW]

I cant prove it obviously. As you said yourself he was much less often to play "aggressively" than Shaq. Which implies what type of shots?

Why?

Well that's the question.
Yes you could prove it, if it were true. But it isn't true he didn't opt out of higher percentage shots to take fall aways at least not according to the film. The film indicates it's an extra dimension/option to his post-game used when the higher percentage shots got taken away.

What I said is that it he didn't want to physically hurt people. He's said so, his opponents said so. Or more specifically they said if you didn't bother him he wouldn't bother you. If you gave him baseline, you were going to get dunked on period he wasn't just chucking up fall aways like a perimeter player would every single fall away he attempts is done with a defender between him and the baseline. The fall away is an alternate (and in his hands still a dependable) option. Think of it as another dimension to his game. A guy like Dwight, or even Shaq would have to give it up for their team to still get a decent shot if they got the ball and the baseline and middle got sealed off or too crowded on them. They could try and force it in sure but then they risk fouling, or they could try and force a shot but in their hands they didn't have a polished high percentage stationary or fall-away option. Wilt? No he still has a dependable option, that fall away shot. Some of his teams particularly his early ones really needed that extra option/help on offense too. Thus, 7 consecutive scoring titles.

[CavaliersFTW]

Give Wilt Shaq's officiating and you would see some brutal shit from the dipper
Maybe but to me it does seem like he didn't want to physically hurt people in a way that Shaq didn't seem to be concerned with unless as his peers have indicated someone playing against him instigated it first. Score a shit ton of points and embarrass opponents by outplaying them yes. Give them a bloody nose or some bruised ribs with a deliberately errant elbow not so much.

However I'd imagine if you put Shaq against Wilt, or maybe Karl Malone with Shaq-era officiating and then you might see some brutal shit from the dipper, in response to the brutal game they might be playing against him.