advanced stats only matter if LeBron's are impressive

[PejaTheSerbSnip]

....expanding my thoughts from another thread


This is starting to become laughable. LeBron stans harbor a superiority complex to Kobe stans because of the latter's disapproval of advanced stats.....yet in the end, these same fans will disregard those statistics if they don't favor their favourite player.

And the facts speak for themselves: LeBrons 49.2 TS% this season is lower than even Kobes worst playoff run. This is despite opponents sagging off him at the 3pt line, taking a higher percentage of shots at the rim than the average player, and making 8 trips to the line a game.

Consider this: EVERY single player on the Cavs roster that has taken more than 6 shots this postseason has a TS% that is at least 40 points higher than LeBrons. And the top 7 players on the Cavs all have a WS/48 that ranges from .150-.217. Team ball.

The notion that he has carried the Cavs is patently false. His supporting cast is shooting 40% from the 3pt line in the postseason. The best playmaking in the world won't get you that.

Smith and Thompson are both shooting over 60% TS. Smith is averaging 16/6 with only 1 turnover a game on elite efficiency, Thompson is averaging 10/10 w/4.5 offensive rebounds a game.

And literally every single player in the Cavs roster is out shooting LeBron, and by cavernous margins.

Without resorting to trolling or insults, there's no way to dispute this on a reasonable level; LeBron has had a good, not great, playoff run. His rebounding, defense and playmaking (although his assist-turnover ratio isn't very good) have made up for his truly AWFUL shooting, and hes the biggest single reason they're in the finals, but hes not carrying this team. Not even close.

[Legends66NBA7]

I've said this before, this run feels similar to the 07 playoff run. LeBron is better now, so I think he should be good in the finals.

LeBron is no where near the level of his 09, 12, 13, and 14 runs.

[SexSymbol]

I've said this before, this run feels similar to the 07 playoff run. LeBron is better now, so I think he should be good in the finals.

LeBron is no where near the level of his 09, 12, 13, and 14 runs.
there's only two differences between this run and 09 run, is he had a better 3pt shot back then and he's a better defender this year, although not by much, it's just that he was terrible in 09 on the defensive end. Similar runs

[Alamо]

That's only on ESPN and ISH


People everywhere else aren't as retarded

[navy]

What did you say about Lebron's stats last year and the years before? Because he had better shooting numbers he was carrying the Heat?

[Ca$H]

Bran stans will avoid this thread like the plague.

[ArbitraryWater]

Its funny how some websites rose the question of this being LeBron's best ever playoff run... lol

He's dominating, no doubt, not many could pull this off and have this impact on the entire team/teammates (definitely not the brought up Kobe), which those stats dont show, but he's had plenty better.

[navy]

Its funny how some websites rose the question of this being LeBron's best ever playoff run... lol

He's dominating, no doubt, not many could pull this off and have this impact on the entire team/teammates (definitely not the brought up Kobe), which those stats dont show, but he's had plenty better.
Havent seen a worse Lebron since like his first few playoffs.

[J Shuttlesworth]

Its funny how some websites rose the question of this being LeBron's best ever playoff run... lol

He's dominating, no doubt, not many could pull this off and have this impact on the entire team/teammates (definitely not the brought up Kobe), which those stats dont show, but he's had plenty better.
He's rebounded well, and made some quality passes. His scoring has been nowhere close to his best playoff runs. His TS is horrid this year in the playoffs.

For some other advanced stats, he's putting up his career high in AST%, meaning the amount of shots he assisted while on the floor (42.9%) and his career high in REB% (14.2% which ties 2009 playoffs). His APG is 8.3 and RPG is 10.4 which are both career highs in the playoffs

If his jumper was anywhere near what it was last season, he'd be having one of his best playoffs... but it's not. He also needs to get the turnovers in check. That won't fly against Golden State.

[Xoush]

Water is wet.

[Rocketswin2013]

there's only two differences between this run and 09 run, is he had a better 3pt shot back then and he's a better defender this year, although not by much, it's just that he was terrible in 09 on the defensive end. Similar runs
Just stop it with the bolded.

He's been a tier below his previous runs. Kobe, Wade, Duncan etc have all had better runs. His defense this year is better than last year's in the playoffs, that's a good sign. Overall, I'm not impressed, the East is bad. Like, really bad.

[SexSymbol]

Its funny how some websites rose the question of this being LeBron's best ever playoff run... lol

He's dominating, no doubt, not many could pull this off and have this impact on the entire team/teammates (definitely not the brought up Kobe), which those stats dont show, but he's had plenty better.
that's just disrespectful at this point, c'mon now.

[Sarcastic]

Its funny how some websites rose the question of this being LeBron's best ever playoff run... lol

He's dominating, no doubt, not many could pull this off and have this impact on the entire team/teammates (definitely not the brought up Kobe), which those stats dont show, but he's had plenty better.

So if the Cavs win this year, you'll say this was his worst title run of his career?

[PejaTheSerbSnip]

Havent seen a worse Lebron since like his first few playoffs.
Yep, truth

[DMAVS41]

Of course it matters.

Lebron hasn't played that well yet. He's had some moments of greatness, but overall it hasn't been great.

It's been enough because of how shitty the East is.

I don't get why people struggle with this. Lebron is great, but he's not playing his best...and the East sucks.

Do people really think you should cruise through a conference this easily...while missing your 2nd and 3rd best player with your star in a horrid shooting slump....going 12-2?

Doesn't mean the Cavs can't win or start playing better with a healthy Kryie, but the level they've been playing at won't be close to good enough.

[plowking]

He is rebounding the ball better than ever, passing it better than ever, etc...

Saying that though, this is one of his lesser playoff runs. Especially if you're only looking at stats. I think certain intangibles in his game that can't be measured are far better than earlier in his career, so this run is a bit better than his early Cavs ones.

[gts]

Ill say the same thing I say about Kobe or anyone else....

Is he leading the team and is he winning games? Yes and yes, then nothing else matters because the ultimate goal for any player is to win the title... W's matter stats are secondary...

that being said i have enjoyed watching the Lebronstans deflect the exact same criticisms they have been holding up as some sort of holy grail despite his finals record... for years all we heard about was his efficiency as if that was more important than actually winning games and now that he's suffering in the stats department suddenly the numbers aren't the important thing, it's the wins, it's that he's finding other ways to help his team :lol

[plowking]

Ill say the same thing I say about Kobe or anyone else....

Is he leading the team and is he winning games? Yes and yes, then nothing else matters because the ultimate goal for any player is to win the title... W's matter stats are secondary...

that being said i have enjoyed watching the Lebronstans deflect the exact same criticisms they have been holding up as some sort of holy grail despite his finals record... for years all we heard about was his efficiency as if that was more important than actually winning games and now that he's suffering in the stats department suddenly the numbers aren't the important thing, it's the wins, it's that he's finding other ways to help his team :lol

People are acting as if his stats are bad though.

28/10/8...

The fact is, even if his efficiency is struggling he is good enough to kick out to open guys, and be able to find them consistently. He is the most multi-faceted player to ever play the game, and people act as if his efficiency is the only thing that made him special.

When he has been efficient, his teams steamroll teams. He was extremely efficient against the Hawks. His FG% dipped in the 4th quarters when most of the games were already over.

[warriorfan]

bron and harden both just slowly euro step into the lane everytime and either kick out to a 3 point shooter or miss a field goal their shit sucks

[Jacks3]

Mentioning his TS and then his WS/WS48 is sorta redundant. His advanced stats are down because his individual efficiency is way down (obviously)

Personally, I think LeBron's run is just more proof that people put somewhat too much stock in individual efficiency, because it's clear that he's still having hugely positive impact despite the terrible efficiency numbers. On the other hand you can put up GOAT level efficiency numbers and still have little impact (see: Adrian Dantley). It's fascinating.

[PejaTheSerbSnip]

Ill say the same thing I say about Kobe or anyone else....

Is he leading the team and is he winning games? Yes and yes, then nothing else matters because the ultimate goal for any player is to win the title... W's matter stats are secondary...

that being said i have enjoyed watching the Lebronstans deflect the exact same criticisms they have been holding up as some sort of holy grail despite his finals record... for years all we heard about was his efficiency as if that was more important than actually winning games and now that he's suffering in the stats department suddenly the numbers aren't the important thing, it's the wins, it's that he's finding other ways to help his team :lol

Exactly.....some posters on here had me fooled lol, acting like they actually understand/embrace analytics..... FOH. just say you like them because they bolster LeBrons legacy.

[DMAVS41]

Ill say the same thing I say about Kobe or anyone else....

Is he leading the team and is he winning games? Yes and yes, then nothing else matters because the ultimate goal for any player is to win the title... W's matter stats are secondary...

that being said i have enjoyed watching the Lebronstans deflect the exact same criticisms they have been holding up as some sort of holy grail despite his finals record... for years all we heard about was his efficiency as if that was more important than actually winning games and now that he's suffering in the stats department suddenly the numbers aren't the important thing, it's the wins, it's that he's finding other ways to help his team :lol

In normal situations I do agree that winning in the playoffs matters the most...the problem with that is players can lead and play great and still get murked in the playoffs.

I do agree though that a player just getting shit done needs to matter as well.

However, this isn't a normal situation. If Lebron was leading his team to the finals from the West...then I'd agree a lot more. But beating these teams he has so far isn't very good evidence of anything other than Lebron is really good and the East sucks.

The reason this is flawed is because if Lebron plays amazing in the finals and they lose...you seem stuck to saying he didn't play well or something even though he actually would have played better...he just happened to play a real team.

Perhaps I and others that don't think Lebron played all that great in the playoffs overall so far are missing something. I grant that could be the case and will gladly admit to being wrong if Lebron can go out against this Warriors team and lead his team to the title while shooting sub 50% TS with a hobbled Kyrie.

If that happens...then I've missed something. I can't imagine that happening, but we'll see.

The point of that is to say that if Lebron leads his team to a title now...I'd bet my life that he'll have to play great to do it. That he won't be able to shoot 16% from 3 while taking 5 a game. That he won't be able to turn it over 5 or 6 times a game...etc.

So while I understand the core of your post and agree with most of it...

The "getting shit done" line doesn't work that well when you can pretty much slump your way to a 12-2 record en route to the finals.