Kobe Bryant's 2005 MVP snub [Archive] - Message Board Basketball Forum

dreamwarrior

06-01-2015, 01:07 AM

SouBeachTalents

06-01-2015, 01:09 AM

Great argument for dumbest complaint in ISH history

Legends66NBA7

06-01-2015, 01:14 AM

That was on off year for Kobe.

Imtheman

06-01-2015, 01:15 AM

Because of the rape allegations u turd

HelterSkelter

06-01-2015, 01:15 AM

LOL. Great point. I remember that PJ Brown vote.

I was never a Kobe fan but I do think he should've won it in 06 and/or 07. He had a shitty record but he was that good.

He stole Chris Paul's 08 MVP trophy and a couple of others' All-D team selections... so it's all good.

Also, the Kobe hate in 04 was on LeBron level... no chance of him winning or even being voted.

Ne 1

06-01-2015, 01:23 AM

Rape case still lingering, plus it was down year for Kobe. He battled injuries again while adjusting to a new role and two coaching changes so he didn't have a season up to his usual standards. He was top 10 still that year, although I've never been 100% comfortable with putting him as low as 10th, his skills and ability are certainly above that, though he had his struggles in a ball-dominant do-everything role and his defense had already been slipping a few years, but it hit a new low in '05, and I'm not sure he was more effective than some other perimeter players who weren't as skilled, especially with the injuries.

RoundMoundOfReb

06-01-2015, 01:25 AM

34-48...

Ne 1

06-01-2015, 01:32 AM

He stole Chris Paul's 08 MVP trophy and a couple of others' All-D team selections... so it's all good.

Disagree. 2008 was arguably the best season of his career. At worst, it's top 2 with 2006. 2008 was definitely his most all around season so people need to stop saying it was a "lifetime achievement award." He was still the best scorer in the league, but he played better defense than he had since the 3peat and the only time his play-making has rivaled 2008 was the 2001 playoffs, and Kobe sustained it for an entire season in 2008. What he did with that Laker team with all of the injuries and how unbeatable they were with Gasol was clearly MVP-worthy. He was obviously the best player in the game that year.

The Lakers were 25-11 early at the time of Bynum's injury, Kobe kept them going until they got Gasol, then Gasol was injured and he kept them going and they ended up with the best record in one of the most competitive conferences ever. Kobe's balance between getting his teammates involved early and taking over later was reminiscent of Jordan that season. He was a great playmaker, a deadly scorer who did play unselfishly for the most part, he rebounded very well for a guard and he had his best defensive season since the 3peat. He deserved the 2008 MVP.

As far as the undeserving All-Defensive teams, sure 2-3 he won based off of reputation but why don't we examin every player who's also won off of reputation?

Ne 1

06-01-2015, 01:40 AM

34-48...

Eh, the Lakers were 18-15 before Kobe's injury and 24-19 total with Rudy T before he stepped down for health reasons. Kobe, Butler and Odom missed a combined 39 games.

JohnFreeman

06-01-2015, 01:44 AM

Why would Kobe stans care? They always say "it's just a stupid media award"

Ne 1

06-01-2015, 01:48 AM

Why would Kobe stans care? They always say "it's just a stupid media award"
Well when you consider that Steve Nash has more MVPs than Shaq, Kobe and Olajuwon has, it is essentially a stupid media award.

HelterSkelter

06-01-2015, 01:56 AM

Disagree. 2008 was arguably the best season of his career. At worst, it's top 2 with 2006. 2008 was definitely his most all around season so people need to stop saying it was a "lifetime achievement award." He was still the best scorer in the league, but he played better defense than he had since the 3peat and the only time his play-making has rivaled 2008 was the 2001 playoffs, and Kobe sustained it for an entire season in 2008. What he did with that Laker team with all of the injuries and how unbeatable they were with Gasol was clearly MVP-worthy. He was obviously the best player in the game that year.

The Lakers were 25-11 early at the time of Bynum's injury, Kobe kept them going until they got Gasol, then Gasol was injured and he kept them going and they ended up with the best record in one of the most competitive conferences ever. Kobe's balance between getting his teammates involved early and taking over later was reminiscent of Jordan that season. He was a great playmaker, a deadly scorer who did play unselfishly for the most part, he rebounded very well for a guard and he had his best defensive season since the 3peat. He deserved the 2008 MVP.

08 Kobe was a smarter player compared to his previous years... I will give him that. All that making plays for his teammates, being a better defender, etc... that's arguable.. Don't get me wrong... as the team's leader, he did what was expected of him...

but their rise can be also because the team is finally executing Phil's offensive and defensive system into a higher level..

Chris Paul, who was just in his 3rd year, was still more impressive...

the W-L improvement in a stacked conference, the way he made his teammates better, the way he guided the team... etc.

it was just simply better than Kobe's year.

As far as the undeserving All-Defensive teams, sure 2-3 he won based off of reputation but why don't we examin every player who's also won off of reputation?

I agree. They should.

BigBoss

06-01-2015, 02:33 AM

So I looked at Kobe's MVP ranking history and noticed if it weren't for 2004-2005 he would have 11 straight seasons being voted in the top 5 for the MVP. Not only was he not voted in the top 5 but he did not receive ANY votes. Sure, he was on a losing team as the Lakers went 34-48, but PJ Brown got 1 vote while putting up 11/9/2.2 on the Hornets that went 18-64. Kobe put up 28/6/6 yet did not receive a single vote. What gives?

Media votes. That was the year Kobe was getting killed by the media. Post-Colorado/Shaq/Phil Jackson/end of a dynasty/etc Kobe.

Imagine LeBron getting killed in the MEDIA and having the roster Kobe had in 2005. He would have quit playing basketball.

MrC1991

06-01-2015, 02:44 AM

Not to derail the topic but PJ Brown got a MVP vote? LOL PJ was good I'd take him on my team, but what the actual **** man.

Magic 32

06-01-2015, 02:54 AM

Chris Paul, who was just in his 3rd year, was still more impressive...

the W-L improvement in a stacked conference, the way he made his teammates better, the way he guided the team... etc.

it was just simply better than Kobe's year.

Kobe was better on every level.

The postseason completely validated the award.

So has every season since.

HelterSkelter

06-01-2015, 03:02 AM

Kobe was better on every level.

The postseason completely validated the award.

So has every season since.

Kobe had waaay more experience.. both in regular and post season... he was alo playing in a better coach and system.

Paul WAS THE SYSTEM.

Smoke117

06-01-2015, 03:12 AM

Kobe had waaay more experience.. both in regular and post season... he was alo playing in a better coach and system.

Paul WAS THE SYSTEM.

Why are you trying to rationalize with one of the biggest kobe stan dick suckers here?

24-Inch_Chrome

06-01-2015, 03:41 AM

If I remember correctly, 2005 was the year Steve Nash led the 3rd best offense ever as far as ORTG relative to league average and brought Phoenix from a 29 win season to a 62 win season. MVP well deserved. :applause:

Mr Feeny

06-01-2015, 04:37 AM

Magic 32

06-01-2015, 04:38 AM

Kobe had waaay more experience.. both in regular and post season... he was alo playing in a better coach and system.

Paul WAS THE SYSTEM.

So he should be award for playing losing basketball?

And David West and Tyson Chandler was more help than Kobe had for 2/3 of the season.

buddha

06-01-2015, 04:42 AM

because the MVP is essentially the "best player on the best team" award.

HelterSkelter

06-01-2015, 05:15 AM

So he should be award for playing losing basketball?

Look.. your defensive instincts for Kobe are so overflowing you can't even type right.

And David West and Tyson Chandler was more help than Kobe had for 2/3 of the season.

Odom, Bynum, Gasol >>>>>>>>>>> West, Chandler,

Not to mention Phil's system...

BTW, the Lakers went 4-5 in the time Bynum got hurt and they still didn't have Gasol.

Magic 32

06-01-2015, 05:37 AM

Odom, Bynum, Gasol >>>>>>>>>>> West, Chandler,

West, Chandler > Odom, Bynum

West, Chandler < Odom, Pau (for just 27 games)

Plus Kobe was able to incorporate and adapt with all those different lineups.

Clearly a greater achievement for anyone with a fully developed brain.

BTW, the Lakers went 4-5 in the time Bynum got hurt and they still didn't have Gasol.

Kobe stats in those games....

33.6 ppg, 7,9 rpg, 5,6 apg, 1, spg, 52.4 fg%

Lost to Spurs (56 wins), Mavs (51 wins), Pistons (59 wins), Suns (55 wins) and Cavs (45 wins). 3 of the games were on the road.

And lets enjoy Kwame from the suns game...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxCcC8oHjWc

HelterSkelter

06-01-2015, 06:03 AM

West, Chandler > Odom, Bynum

West, Chandler < Odom, Pau (for just 27 games)

Plus Kobe was able to incorporate and adapt with all those different lineups.

Clearly a greater achievement for anyone with a fully developed brain.

Chandler's the best rebounder out of all of them...

I don't know how West is better than Odom and Bynum...

Prime David West was solid.. but for the most part.. he's a slow 4 who has a jump shot...

Odom can pass, shoot, defend, and run... and he's like 6'10 or 11

Bynum had skills to be the top big man in the league.

Kobe stats in those games....

33.6 ppg, 7,9 rpg, 5,6 apg, 1, spg, 52.4 fg%

Lost to Spurs (56 wins), Mavs (51 wins), Pistons (59 wins), Suns (55 wins) and Cavs (45 wins). 3 of the games were on the road.

Great stats.

If you're gonna go that "they lost to this great team and that great team" route... then you should consider that Paul was only in his 3rd year and didn't have a better coaching staff than Kobe.

Magic 32

06-01-2015, 06:18 AM

I don't know how West is better than Odom and Bynum...

2007-08

Chandler + West = 32.5 points and 20.6 rebounds per game for 76 games.

Odom + Bynum = 27.3 points and 20,8 rebounds per game for 35 games.

Bynum had skills to be the top big man in the league.

Had...

What the hell are talking about?

Who cares what his potential was.

HelterSkelter

06-01-2015, 06:28 AM

Chandler + West = 32.5 points and 20.6 rebounds per game for 76 games.

Odom + Bynum = 27.3 points and 20,8 rebounds per game for 35 games.

Had...

What the hell are talking about?

Who cares what his potential was.

Why? That potential and skillset is what Kobe had on his corner... and we're talking about supporting casts.

A 3rd year PG leading a team to division title is more deserving of an MVP than an established superstar with an all-time coach, playoff experience, and great cast, leading a team to a division title.

buddha

06-01-2015, 06:29 AM

Look.. your defensive instincts for Kobe are so overflowing you can't even type right.

Odom, Bynum, Gasol >>>>>>>>>>> West, Chandler,

Not to mention Phil's system...

BTW, the Lakers went 4-5 in the time Bynum got hurt and they still didn't have Gasol.

dat triangle is working real well in NY

:roll:
:roll:
:roll:
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:roll: :roll: :roll:

Magic 32

06-01-2015, 06:38 AM

Why? That potential and skillset is what Kobe had on his corner... and we're talking about supporting casts.

A 3rd year PG leading a team to division title is more deserving of an MVP than an established superstar with an all-time coach, playoff experience, and great cast, leading a team to a division title.

And you start over.

For the last time...

CP3 had a better, healthier more consistent supporting cast.

Kobe won in their head-to-head games.

Kobe had the number 1 seed.

CP3's age is completely irrelevant to those facts.

The subsequent postseason and history has shown that the right man got the MVP.

Period end of story.

Mr Feeny

06-01-2015, 06:47 AM

Magic 32

06-01-2015, 06:55 AM

This. Kobe made West and chandler look like world beaters. He had no right leading that team to a record as good as that.

Dirk made Chandler look like a champion.

Or maybe Chnadler is just a great defensive center.

West....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxiWXUaHPFg

And he was still very good as a Pacer. Or maybe Lance Stephenson did that.

Ne 1

06-01-2015, 08:53 AM

Chris Paul wasn't going to get the MVP in 2008 is how the end of the season played out. The Hornets lost 4 of their last 5 games and lost HCA in the west by 1 game. That includes a game where Kobe outplayed Paul. I feel like to be an MVP, you should be able to play well when in matters. Kobe raised his game when it mattered and Paul sort of dropped off. Paul had a strong case, but Kobe was the right choice.

CJ Mustard

06-01-2015, 08:58 AM

Whoever voted for PJ Brown better have gotten their voting rights taken away immediately after.

Ne 1

06-01-2015, 09:14 AM

Whoever voted for PJ Brown better have gotten their voting rights taken away immediately after.
It was actually a New Orleans sportswriter, Jimmy Smith. Someone also left Shaq completely off their ballot too in '05.:facepalm

SexSymbol

06-01-2015, 10:04 AM

Magic 32 straight up murdered helterskelter with facts.

Mr Feeny

06-01-2015, 10:24 AM

Whoever voted for PJ Brown better have gotten their voting rights taken away immediately after.

This. But yeah Kobe was downright pathetic in 2005. His fanboys are utterly delusional if they think he should have sniffed the mvp. 34 wins. 43%fg shooting:oldlol:

HOoopCityJones

06-01-2015, 10:35 AM

This. But yeah Kobe was downright pathetic in 2005. His fanboys are utterly delusional if they think he should have sniffed the mvp. 34 wins. 43%fg shooting:oldlol:

You only come around when it's a Kobe thread. Get a life my dude.

Wade's Rings

06-01-2015, 10:37 AM

Kobe was better on every level.

The postseason completely validated the award.

So has every season since.

The subsequent postseason and history has shown that the right man got the MVP.

Period end of story.

Why do keep bringing up the Post Season when the MVP is a regular Season award?

How does what Kobe did in the 2009-2010 Playoffs determine the 2008 MVP?

HelterSkelter

06-01-2015, 10:38 AM

And you start over.

For the last time...

CP3 had a better, healthier more consistent supporting cast.

Kobe won in their head-to-head games.

Kobe had the number 1 seed.

CP3's age is completely irrelevant to those facts.

The subsequent postseason and history has shown that the right man got the MVP.

Period end of story.

Where did I start over? You're the ones that switched angles.

Why would age be irrelevant?

The supporting cast argument..... I'm done with it. Laker fans are just the worst in this.. I could never understand why you all keep acting like Kobe was with a bunch of scrubs.... and I've already said why I think Odom and Bynum are better than West and Chandler.

No one won their head-to-head that year.. the season series was 2-2 and they both had good numbers

Kobe having a "better year" because we he went to the finals doesn't mean shit... it should but it doesn't.. the award is for the regular season.

You can't look at this objectively 'cause you're a Kobe and Laker stan.

Chris Paul is the real MVP that year because the Hornets revolved around him scoring, defending, and assisting everyone. The Lakers had the triangle to fall back on.

LOL at "Period end of story." Don't be a kid.

And don't get mad. Kobe deserved it. I just think Chris Paul deserved it more.

Mr Feeny

06-01-2015, 10:39 AM

You only come around when it's a Kobe thread. Get a life my dude.You're following me around as usual. Get a life.

Mr Feeny

06-01-2015, 10:40 AM

Why do keep bringing up the Post Season when the MVP is a regular Season award?

How does what Kobe did in the 2009-2010 Playoffs determine the 2008 MVP?He doesn't understand the first thing about basketball. That's why.

HurricaneKid

06-01-2015, 10:44 AM

Usually we see the impact of an elite player by their impact in wins and losses. In 05 Kobe literally chased off 3 HoFers so he could lead the historic Lakers.... to a 34 win season. MVP vote? He could have won Least Valuable Player that season.

Magic 32

06-01-2015, 10:58 AM

Why do keep bringing up the Post Season when the MVP is a regular Season award?

How does what Kobe did in the 2009-2010 Playoffs determine the 2008 MVP?

So people don't use Rose's and Nash's failures in the postseason and beyond as an indictment of their MVP's?

Magic 32

06-01-2015, 11:10 AM

Where did I start over? You're the ones that switched angles.

No that would you.

Why would age be irrelevant?

Because it is.

The supporting cast argument..... I'm done with it. Laker fans are just the worst in this.. I could never understand why you all keep acting like Kobe was with a bunch of scrubs....

I provide the stats, you provide the lies (never once said Kobe played with scubs).

and I've already said why I think Odom and Bynum are better than West and Chandler.

And I have provided the numbers that show why that is complete BS when debating 2007-08.

No one won their head-to-head that year.. the season series was 2-2 and they both had good numbers

Kobe won THE matchup when the number 1 seed was up for grabs, and the head-to-head battle was not close.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xhs0udFxPkY

http://s18.postimg.org/mmh3q1gax/457.png

Kobe having a "better year" because we he went to the finals doesn't mean shit...

Means more than CP3's age that's for sure.

Chris Paul is the real MVP that year because the Hornets revolved around him scoring, defending, and assisting everyone.

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/1102525/fnbs.gif

Now take your loss like a man.

Wade's Rings

06-01-2015, 11:11 AM

So people don't use Rose's and Nash's failures in the postseason and beyond as an indictment of their MVP's?

I don't know.

That logic makes no sense even if others use it. The MVP is still a regular season award. It's still 1 specific year not 3 years.

Ne 1

06-01-2015, 11:20 AM

Chris Paul was not by any means the "real 2008 MVP." He had a strong case, but Bryant was absolutely the right choice. He led the Lakers to the #1 seed in the West averaging 28/6/5 on 58 TS%. Paul choked and got embarrassed losing 4 of the last 6 games that put New Orleans at #2 behind L.A. How can you be the "real MVP" when you lose 4 of the last 6 crucial games... when you led your team to team to the #2 seed in your conference and #4 overall by getting embarrassed by Deron Williams and Jason Kidd. How does the so called "real MVP" score 4 points on 17 TS% in one of those games and also lose to and get outplayed by the actual MVP winner as well in one of those games?

Magic 32

06-01-2015, 11:24 AM

I don't know.

That logic makes no sense even if others use it. The MVP is still a regular season award. It's still 1 specific year not 3 years.

Well, that would be fair enough if not for the fact that these awards usually have more than one candidate.

What happens in the postseason (and in the player's career) is usually a good way to finding out who really deserved to be named "most valuable".

HelterSkelter

06-01-2015, 11:31 AM

No that would you.
Where did I do that?

Because it is.

Why? It's not everything.. but it can definitely play a part.

I provide the stats, you provide the lies (never once said Kobe played with scubs).

What lies? and I'm referring to Laker fans in general... you were way too sensitive on that one. :oldlol:

And I have provided the numbers that show why that was complete BS when debating 2007-08.

I just said Odom was better because he can shoot, pass, defend, and run... and Bynum has a premier big man's skill set, which he showed that year. No numbers can say that was BS.

Kobe won THE matchup when the number 1 seed was up for grabs, and the head-to-head battle was not close.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xhs0udFxPkY

http://s18.postimg.org/mmh3q1gax/457.png

You're gonna describe a 104-107 win like that? How was the h2h match up not close? Kobe was 28/8/6.. Paul was 23/4/15.. :confusedshrug:

Means more than CP3's age that's for sure.

Again, it's for the regular season... not the entire season.

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/1102525/fnbs.gif

Paul did have his share of defensive stops during the year.

Now take your loss like a man.

Paul's main task was to score and set up his teammates.

Kobe's main task was to score and make sure his teammates were involved because.....well we know why.

Paul had more responsibilities and he handled it better.

Now take your loss like a man...... or based on your past replies... a boy.

EDIT: Ne 1.. it's nice to see that you're not a super Kobe/Laker troll anymore. haha.

HOoopCityJones

06-01-2015, 11:34 AM

You're following me around as usual. Get a life.

No that's the sad part. Fans of Kobe show interest in threads pertaining to the player, your bitch ass only pops up to cry about Kobe, like the little bitch that you are, which makes me know you're an alt. Ive never seen you contribute to an actual Basketball discussion that wasn't in someway trying to discredit Kobe, you're obsessed more than the stans like Kenneth and 9premiere.

Get a life bruh, 19,000 pots on your AW account and 2,000 on this one. All about Kobe. If he was such a scrub why even bother posting so much? He living rent free in your head and your asshole.

Wade's Rings

06-01-2015, 11:41 AM

Well, that would be fair enough if not for the fact that these awards usually have more than one candidate.

What happens in the postseason (and in the career of a player) is usually a good way to find out who really deserved the award that year.

If Playoffs Determined MVPs, Wade would have x2 but he doesn't because it's a Regular Season Award.

Their Careers shouldn't determine the MVP. If CP3 went on to have a great Playoff Run next year and win the Title, would he still not deserve the 2008 MVP?

ArbitraryWater

06-01-2015, 12:04 PM

dat triangle is working real well in NY

:roll:
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:roll:
:roll:
:roll: :roll: :roll:

the disrespect and stupidity :facepalm

Mr Feeny

06-01-2015, 12:54 PM

No that's the sad part. Fans of Kobe show interest in threads pertaining to the player, your bitch ass only pops up to cry about Kobe, like the little bitch that you are, which makes me know you're an alt. Ive never seen you contribute to an actual Basketball discussion that wasn't in someway trying to discredit Kobe, you're obsessed more than the stans like Kenneth and 9premiere.

Get a life bruh, 19,000 pots on your AW account and 2,000 on this one. All about Kobe. If he was such a scrub why even bother posting so much? He living rent free in your head and your asshole.

You responded with all that! To me? Awwww

Magic 32

06-01-2015, 01:21 PM

You're gonna describe a 104-107 win like that? How was the h2h match up not close? Kobe was 28/8/6.. Paul was 23/4/15.. :confusedshrug:

CP3 scores 15 points on 4/13......and somehow you say he scored 23 points.

Why did I waste my time..:confusedshrug: :confusedshrug:

Ne 1

06-01-2015, 01:33 PM

Explain to me how Paul meant more to his team. And don't give me that nonsense about Kobe supposedly having some incredibly stacked team and Paul having garbage. Paul had David West, Tyson Chandler and Peja, and overall, a good defensive team that could shoot 3s as well as the same basic supporting cast for the entire season.

When Kobe had Pau, they were nearly unbeatable at 22-4, and earlier, Kobe overachieved as one of the better WC with a 20 year old Bynum. Even without either, the Lakers remained respectable. There isn't much of a case for Paul as a better or more valuable player. If you want to win a title, Kobe is the clear choice over Paul in '08.

Rocketswin2013

06-01-2015, 01:38 PM

You can't point out a few games Kobe played better than Paul at the end of a season to discredit an ENTIRE season of being better.

The Iron Sheik

06-01-2015, 01:42 PM

Kobe had waaay more experience.. both in regular and post season... he was alo playing in a better coach and system.

Paul WAS THE SYSTEM.

why do people always say "x player had this system" as if he isn't the most important part of it or makes it look better? you think because kobe played in a different offense that teams still weren't gameplanning for him as much or even more than cp3? and let's not act like kobe doesn't intentionally break the triangle offense a lot. he took a team full of nobodies sans lamar odom and paul gasol to the top of the western conference and subsequently the finals when just a year before they couldn't even win 45 games and kobe had to go into god-mode to even get them into the playoffs (although they were mired by injuries in the 2nd half of that season). then, when the hornets played the lakers at the end of the season kobe completely showed him up. i think that was the clinching factor for the voters.

cp3 wasn't undeserving at all, but people acting like kobe didn't deserve it, or it was some "pity mvp" (for a guy who still very much in his prime/peak) are delusional.

Magic 32

06-01-2015, 01:43 PM

You can't point out a few games Kobe played better than Paul at the end of a season to discredit an ENTIRE season of being better.

It helps when Kobe was better than Cp3 before those games as well.

MiseryCityTexas

06-01-2015, 01:51 PM

Steve Nash ruined a lot of potential Kobe MVP seasons.

T_L_P

06-01-2015, 01:55 PM

Neither PJ or Kobe deserved a vote in 05.

riseagainst

06-01-2015, 01:57 PM

http://i.imgur.com/VYK6Z7q.gif

Wade's Rings

06-01-2015, 02:01 PM

Steve Nash ruined a lot of potential Kobe MVP seasons.

Without Nash, Kobe still loses the 2005 MVP. His team missed the Playoffs.

2006 Kobe wasn't 2nd in the Vote but yea it could've gone to him.

Ne 1

06-01-2015, 02:18 PM

Without Nash, Kobe still loses the 2005 MVP. His team missed the Playoffs.

2006 Kobe wasn't 2nd in the Vote but yea it could've gone to him.

'05 he doesn't have a case, that was clearly a down year for him, but '06 he was deserving IMO. What he did that season was incredible. Truly put the team on his back. Their modest team success is quite impressive with context as well. 45 wins exceeded expectations for the 2006 Lakers, and Kobe's play that year was simply beyond everyone else. Nash's 54 wins were still on the low end for an MVP winner, and despite Amare's injury, he had a much better team around him than Kobe.

The only MVP with the traditional amount of wins would be Dirk that year. Personally, I give it to Kobe, but if someone wants to give it to Dirk instead of Nash for his 27/9/3 season with 60 wins, I'm fine with that.

Optimus Prime

06-01-2015, 07:12 PM

MVP is nothing more than a media popularity contest.

The media hates Kobe.

The case was still too fresh in everyone's mind.

Not too difficult to understand why he was snubbed.

2005-06 was one of the biggest snubs ever.

:kobe:

navy

06-01-2015, 07:31 PM

2005 Kobe should have received 2 mvp votes. Is that what op wants to hear?

Smoke117

06-01-2015, 07:32 PM

Snub? :yaohappy:

Duncan21formvp

06-01-2015, 08:35 PM

Great argument for dumbest complaint in ISH history
This

HelterSkelter

06-01-2015, 08:44 PM

CP3 scores 15 points on 4/13......and somehow you say he scored 23 points.

Why did I waste my time..:confusedshrug: :confusedshrug:

:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

No dummy... those averages were for their season series.

TheBigVeto

06-01-2015, 10:17 PM

So I looked at Kobe's MVP ranking history and noticed if it weren't for 2004-2005 he would have 11 straight seasons being voted in the top 5 for the MVP. Not only was he not voted in the top 5 but he did not receive ANY votes. Sure, he was on a losing team as the Lakers went 34-48, but PJ Brown got 1 vote while putting up 11/9/2.2 on the Hornets that went 18-64. Kobe put up 28/6/6 yet did not receive a single vote. What gives?

He did not deserve a nomination, it was not a snub. /thread

Magic 32

06-01-2015, 11:14 PM

:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

No dummy... those averages were for their season series.

"You're gonna describe a 104-107 win like that? How was the h2h match up not close? Kobe was 28/8/6.. Paul was 23/4/15.."

http://recruitingdaily.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/6/2015/05/failure_to_communicate_meme.jpg

HelterSkelter

06-01-2015, 11:21 PM

"You're gonna describe a 104-107 win like that? How was the h2h match up not close? Kobe was 28/8/6.. Paul was 23/4/15.."

http://recruitingdaily.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/6/2015/05/failure_to_communicate_meme.jpg

We definitely do. Anyway...

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bryanko01/splits/2008/
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/paulch01/splits/2008/

Smoke117

06-01-2015, 11:44 PM

Magic 32 is literally one of the most pathetic little piss ants here...the guy runs with a Magic name, but..I've never seen him say ANYTHING ABOUT MAGIC JOHNSON EVER...all he does is choke on kobe's dick or rattle away pointless Lebron hating bullshit. (because he's so insecure with his love) He is literally the most useless f@ck you can imagine on a basketball discussion board.

Magic 32

06-01-2015, 11:59 PM

We definitely do. Anyway...

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bryanko01/splits/2008/
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/paulch01/splits/2008/

"You're gonna describe a 104-107 win like that? How was the h2h match up not close? Kobe was 28/8/6.. Paul was 23/4/15.."

http://recruitingdaily.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/6/2015/05/failure_to_communicate_meme.jpg

Smoke117

06-02-2015, 12:02 AM

"You're gonna describe a 104-107 win like that? How was the h2h match up not close? Kobe was 28/8/6.. Paul was 23/4/15.."

http://recruitingdaily.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/6/2015/05/failure_to_communicate_meme.jpg

Still can't respond to me...are you ever going to stop being a *****? You mirror your favorite player...Kobrick. You two ******* could have a lesbian orgy together, you little tw@t.

I Have to think that big f@cking mouth of yours has to have more use than running....so show me you little bitch.

Magic 32

06-02-2015, 12:05 AM

Still can't respond to me...are you ever going to stop being a *****? You mirror your favorite player...Kobrick. You two ******* could have a lesbian orgy together, you little tw@t.

I Have to think that big f@cking mouth of yours has to have more use than running....so show me you little bitch.

http://i.imgur.com/Y0nQE5n.gif

HelterSkelter

06-02-2015, 12:08 AM

"You're gonna describe a 104-107 win like that? How was the h2h match up not close? Kobe was 28/8/6.. Paul was 23/4/15.."

http://recruitingdaily.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/6/2015/05/failure_to_communicate_meme.jpg

:confusedshrug: :confusedshrug:

You sounded like Kobe ate Paul's soul... it's a 104-107 win. :oldlol:

Yes, it's for the number 1 seed... but you should also consider that one great game doesn't summarize the whole season.

I'll end it again with:

Kobe and Paul's teams had similar records (57-25 and 56-26) but Paul had harder responsibilities and he handled it better.

Smoke117

06-02-2015, 12:12 AM

http://i.imgur.com/Y0nQE5n.gif

When you take your dick out and you blow some piss out in the wind...it's going to come back right in your face, bro. Someone never taught you social etiquette. Well...lo and behold...I'm here.

Magic 32

06-02-2015, 12:13 AM

Kobe and Paul's teams had similar records (57-25 and 56-26) but Paul had harder responsibilities and he handled it better.

"handled it better".

When you have nothing left.

Your argument is basically......CP3 was a point guard and Kobe was not.

GTFU

Magic 32

06-02-2015, 12:15 AM

When you take your dick out and you blow some piss out in the wind...it's going to come back right in your face, bro. Someone never taught you social etiquette. Well...lo and behold...I'm here.

Does that include your misogyny and homophobia?

HelterSkelter

06-02-2015, 12:24 AM

"handled it better".

When you have nothing left.

Your argument is basically......CP3 was a point guard and Kobe was not.

GTFU

:roll: :facepalm

Stat-wise, Kobe and Paul are both great. No one is ahead.

But in terms of who has harder responsibilities... Paul without a doubt.

Without Paul, that Hornets team will crumble... he scores and directs every play.

Without Kobe, the Lakers will rely on the triangle. Not saying they'll be good... but they can survive better than the Hornets.

Magic 32

06-02-2015, 12:38 AM

Without Paul, that Hornets team will crumble... he scores and directs every play.

Without Kobe, the Lakers will rely on the triangle. Not saying they'll be good... but they can survive better than the Hornets.

So again, let's reward the team that is built to fail.

Players in a system winning MVP's???.......never again!!!!!!

HelterSkelter

06-02-2015, 01:08 AM

So again, let's reward the team that is built to fail.

Players in a system winning MVP's???.......never again!!!!!!

That's a different story.

We're talking about being VALUABLE to a team.. that's what the award is about. Paul is more valuable to the team.

Magic 32

06-02-2015, 01:41 AM

That's a different story.

We're talking about being VALUABLE to a team.. that's what the award is about. Paul is more valuable to the team.

Well, you can keep your CP3's, Iverson's and Lebron's.

I will stick with Jordan, Shaq, Duncan and Kobe and players who tries to play winning basketball within a system.

FKAri

06-02-2015, 01:59 AM

Well when you consider that Steve Nash has more MVPs than Shaq, Kobe and Olajuwon has, it is essentially a stupid media award.

Shaq would get MVP every season in his prime if he didn't sit out as much as he had to.

HelterSkelter

06-02-2015, 02:06 AM

Well, you can keep your CP3's, Iverson's and Lebron's.

I will stick with Jordan, Shaq, Duncan and Kobe and players who tries to play winning basketball within a system.

:oldlol: That's not what I meant. But whatever.

Kobe deserved it but Paul deserved it more.

Thank you for ending it by indirectly saying "I think Kobe won because I'm a Kobe stan"

Lastly, it's "CP3s, Iversons, and LeBrons." The apostrophes were not needed in there.

Magic 32

06-02-2015, 02:30 AM

Thank you for ending it by indirectly saying "I think Kobe won because I'm a Kobe stan"

Apart from the stats, the games, the legacies, the postseason, the winning playing style, the seedings, the lesser teammates, the injuries.

Thank you for trying to convice yourself that the best season from one of the 10 greatest players ever was less deserving than a conference finals virgin.

You and CP3 deserve eachother.

Magic 32

06-02-2015, 02:38 AM

Lastly, it's "CP3s, Iversons, and LeBrons." The apostrophes were not needed in there.

I'm talking about the "type" of player who dominates the ball and therfore get all the credit.

And usually never wins playing this way.

Mr Feeny

06-02-2015, 06:44 AM

Well, you can keep your CP3's, Iverson's and Lebron's.

I will stick with Jordan, Shaq, Duncan and Kobe.

Why exactly are you putting Kobe in the same breath as Duncan, Jordan and Shaq?

HelterSkelter

06-02-2015, 10:38 AM

Apart from the stats, the games, the legacies, the postseason, the winning playing style, the seedings, the lesser teammates, the injuries.

Thank you for trying to convice yourself that the best season from one of the 10 greatest players ever was less deserving than a conference finals virgin.

You and CP3 deserve eachother.

:oldlol: :facepalm Kobe obviously has a better resume. I'm not arguing that. That has nothing to do with the 07-08 season.

:oldlol: at "You and CP3 deserve each other"

and I don't give a flying fck about Chris Paul. I'm just explaining why he was more deserving, which I explained reasonably in my previous posts...

I'm talking about the "type" of player who dominates the ball and therfore get all the credit.

I know what you mean. I was just saying that you used apostrophes wrong.

Ne 1

06-02-2015, 11:05 AM

Shaq would get MVP every season in his prime if he didn't sit out as much as he had to.
He should have at least 2. Iverson winning over Shaq in '01 was a joke. But anyway the point I was trying to make is that MVP is a subjective award voted on by sportswriters. I don't need a majority of media members to tell me how well someone played when I saw them myself. I'd say that I agree with the MVP selections more often than not, but I've also disagreed with too many for me to praise the selections. Even if I or anyone else agreed with 100% of the MVP selections it's still a subjective award.

Ne 1

06-02-2015, 11:18 AM

That's a different story.

We're talking about being VALUABLE to a team.. that's what the award is about. Paul is more valuable to the team.
Even if that were true (I fail to see how Paul supposedly "meant more" to his team than Kobe) you're wrong. It's the NBA's most valuable player. In other words the most valuable player in the entire league, not which player is most valuable to their respective team. As great as Paul was in 2008, if you believe he was better than 2008 Kobe than I don't know what to tell you. The consensus amongst everyone from fans, current and past players, gms, coaches etc. was that Kobe was the best player on the planet that year.

catch24

06-02-2015, 11:58 AM

It's funny seeing people exaggerate everything CP3 did and belittle all the amazing things Kobe got done that year. Oh for sure, Kobe had Pau but what about before the All-Star break? Statistically, the Lakers were atop the Western Conference, but who did Kobe have? If you're about to say Lamar, Jordan Farmar, Bynum, and Vujacic, just stop while you're ahead. Those guys (especially Lamar) did not emerge until that year and that's because Kobe made them better.

And CP3? Had an All-Star in West, amazing shooter in Peja, and an emerging force in Chandler. I know a lot of this is thanks to CP3, but if you're gonna say that, why not apply that same logic with Kobe? Pretty obvious double-standard here.

They both had similar stats, and like Harden/Curry this season, Curry and Kobe lead their teams to better records. Not only that, but to close the season, Kobe thoroughly outplayed Paul in their H2H which put a stamp on the MVP campaign.

So yeah, both were deserving - but Kobe, who was playing with broken fingers, had the stronger case. Period.

catch24

06-02-2015, 11:59 AM

Even if that were true (I fail to see how Paul supposedly "meant more" to his team than Kobe) you're wrong. It's the NBA's most valuable player. In other words the most valuable player in the entire league, not which player is most valuable to their respective team. As great as Paul was in 2008, if you believe he was better than 2008 Kobe than I don't know what to tell you. The consensus amongst everyone from fans, current and past players, gms, coaches etc. was that Kobe was the best player on the planet that year.

Exactly. From 2006-2008, Kobe was widely regarded as the leagues best player. Revisionism is a powerful thing though.

HOoopCityJones

06-02-2015, 12:06 PM

Exactly. From 2006-2008, Kobe was widely regarded as the leagues best player. Revisionism is a powerful thing though.

You barking on def ears bro, half this forum are Lebron stans and the other half are just trying as hard to discredit Kobe as they were before he went to three straight Finals without Shaq. You can see the contradictions riddled through any thread pertaining to Kobe and his legacy. This all time great has won under these circumstances , but Kobe can't be considered a great because he did too , because I said so. Shaq was MDE of the era, but only has one MVP, Kobe only has one MVP and that's a strike against his resume, because I said so.

Fact of the matter is from 06-10 the national Basketball discussion was Kobe or Lebron. Revisionism indeed.