Aren't the 2014 Spurs better than anything MJ has defeated in playoffs?

[lilteapot]

The 2014 Spurs had 3 hall of famers who were All-Stars around that time:

Tim Duncan ('11, '13, '15)
Tony Parker ('12-'14)
Manu Ginobili ('11)

They also had great wing athlete/defender Kawhi Leonard.

What roster has MJ defeated that is as good as this?

[riseagainst]

no one.

[The_LA_Blakers]

The 2014 Spurs had 3 hall of famers who were All-Stars around that time:

Tim Duncan ('11, '13, '15)
Tony Parker ('12-'14)
Manu Ginobili ('11)

They also had great wing athlete/defender Kawhi Leonard.

What roster has MJ defeated that is as good as this?



http://www.blacktoptens.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/starks2_mini.jpg

[3ball]

.
1) Isiah/Dumars/Dantley/Laimbeer/Rodman/Salley/Mahorn/Vinnie/Edwards > anything Lebron ever faced.. The Spurs don't begin to compare to that depth, defense or combination of elite perimeter and post play.

2) In the 1998 Finals, the Utah Jazz had a 100.3 playoff defensive rating (DRtg) - that's far better than anything Lebron ever faced in the Finals.

3) Riley's 90's Knicks might have been the toughest defense ever behind the Bad Boys - the Knicks snap-made the Finals each time MJ retired, validating their championship caliber (only losing to Spurs because Ewing and his 18/10/2.6 blks was hurt and missed entire series).

4) The 1992 Blazers had 4 guys who were all-stars around that time: Drexler, Porter (91' and 93'), Duckworth (89' and 91'), Cliff Robinson (94').. Also, Buck Williams had been a 3-time all-star as well (82', 83', 86') - Williams got 11/9 in 1992 and was named All-NBA defense in 1992 (for 3rd year in a row and 6th time in his career).. So that's 5 all-star caliber players.

The Blazers were so stacked, the aforementioned Buck Williams, Duckworth and Clifford Robinson were the Blazers' ROLE PLAYERS, despite being all-star players.. This shows how much more talented they were then say, the Spurs, who succeed with role players like Patty Mills and Boris Diaw.. No comparison.. Blazers also had athletic wing defender and scorer Jerome Kersey, who won ring with Spurs in 99'.

5) The 1996 Sonics had prime DPOY Payton, Kemp and Schrempf (a 6'10, 3-point shooting, point-forward and 3-time All-Star in 93', 95', 97') - Lebron has never defeated a Big 3 this good - the 2012 Celtics don't count because that was post-Garnett injury, when everyone was injured and past their prime.. Whereas, the 1996 Sonics were in their uber-prime.

6) Shaq/Penny > Hibbert/George

7) 1993 Suns - Barkley/KJ/Majerle/Dumas/Chambers - Barkley/KJ cancel out Duncan/Parker, and the rest of the Suns role players DESTROY the Spurs Matt Bonner, Patty Mills, etc.

8) MJ led a massive upset versus the 2-seeded, 57-win Cavs and their 2nd ranked defense.. The Cavs had 3 All-stars (Nance, Price, Daughterty), and prime 20 PPG super-athlete Ron Harper, Hot Rod, and Ehlo.
.

[Trollsmasher]

Also, Buck Williams had been a 3-time all-star as well (82', 83', 86') - Williams got 11/9 and was named All-NBA defense in 1992 (for 3rd year in a row and 6th time in his career)..

So that's 5 all-star caliber players.. The Blazers were so stacked, the aforementioned Williams, Duckworth and Cliff Robinson were the Blazers' ROLE PLAYERS..

This shows how much more talented they were then say, the Spurs, who succeed with role players like Patty Mills, Boris Diaw and Bonner.. No comparison to guys like Buck Williams, Duckworth and Clifford Robinson whose impact was on a completely different, higher level.. Blazers also had athletic wing defender and scorer Jerome Kersey, who won ring with Spurs in 99'.The 1992 Blazers had 4 guys who were all-stars around that time:

Clyde Drexler (86'-97')
Terry Porter (91' and 93')
Kevin Duckworth (89' and 91')
Cliff Robinson (94')

[KiiiiNG]

this would actually be a relevant topic if the Heat beat them instead of getting blown out in historically bad fashion

you're just another worthless poster with nothing to contribute. another small fish in a big pond.

[lilteapot]

this would actually be a relevant topic if the Heat beat them instead of getting blown out in historically bad fashion

you're just another worthless poster with nothing to contribute. another small fish in a big pond.

:lol :lol :lol

[sportjames23]

this would actually be a relevant topic if the Heat beat them instead of getting blown out in historically bad fashion

you're just another worthless poster with nothing to contribute. another small fish in a big pond.


Strong ass ether. :cheers:

[Spurs5Rings2014]

this would actually be a relevant topic if the Heat beat them instead of getting blown out in historically bad fashion

you're just another worthless poster with nothing to contribute. another small fish in a big pond.

Got damn.

:roll:

[smoovegittar]

this would actually be a relevant topic if the Heat beat them instead of getting blown out in historically bad fashion

you're just another worthless poster with nothing to contribute. another small fish in a big pond.

even worse - alt.

[Fudge]

this would actually be a relevant topic if the Heat beat them instead of getting blown out in historically bad fashion

you're just another worthless poster with nothing to contribute. another small fish in a big pond.
Damn.

Broken little teapot. :lol

[SHAQisGOAT]

:biggums:

Was this an agenda-driven post towards Bron? Major fail if so... LeBron-led Heat got blowned away like very few ever had been in the Finals...

[HOoopCityJones]

Bruh , those Spurs weren't even on early 00's Spurs level, The Heat just sucked ass relied too much on Bron Ball.

[lilteapot]

:biggums:

Was this an agenda-driven post towards Bron? Major fail if so... LeBron-led Heat got blowned away like very few ever had been in the Finals...
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=378075

[3ball]

misperceptions itt

[3ball]

I made this thread as an answer to the question of whether Lebron ever defeated anything as good as the 1992 Blazers


The Spurs Big 3 were old and past their prime in 2014.. They didn't beat the Heat based on talent.. They won based on a better style of play/brand of basketball, strategy, etc.

Otoh, the 1992 Blazers' best players WERE in their prime, while the supporting/role players were on a different level from the Spurs role players (i.e. Buck Williams, Kevin Duckworth, Clifford Robinson were all all-star caliber, plus Jerome Kersey >>> non-all-stars Bellinelli, Bonner, Green, Kawhi)
.

[pegasus]

this would actually be a relevant topic if the Heat beat them instead of getting blown out in historically bad fashion

you're just another worthless poster with nothing to contribute. another small fish in a big pond.
This. I also find it idiotic when people say no one could have won a ring with the Cavs in 2009 and 2010. It's not like they even came close to winning it all in those years. They got bounced before they reached the Finals. So, the real question should be: could any other superstar make the finals in the East that year? And the answer is: yes, many. Maybe they wouldn't have won a game in the Finals, but at least they would have made it there.

[TheMan]

Bruh , those Spurs weren't even on early 00's Spurs level, The Heat just sucked ass relied too much on Bron Ball.
This

The 14 Spurs were really good but the overrating of them is getting ridiculous, the 14 Heat wouldn't even have had the chance to get their asses handed to them if the EC hadn't been so pathetic :facepalm

[Duncan21formvp]

We really weren't that good, we got taken 7 to Dallas and were 5 seconds from being down 3-1 in the 1st round.

[lilteapot]

We really weren't that good, we got taken 7 to Dallas and were 5 seconds from being down 3-1 in the 1st round.
LOL, are you serious? You were an all time great team last year. That doesn't mean you need to sweep through the playoffs.

[3ball]

2014 Spurs


The Spurs Big 3 were old and past their prime in 2014.. They didn't beat the Heat based on talent.. They won based on a better brand of basketball, strategy, etc.

Otoh, the 1992 Blazers' best players WERE in their prime, while the supporting/role players were on a different level from the Spurs role players (i.e. Buck Williams, Kevin Duckworth, Clifford Robinson were all all-star caliber, plus Jerome Kersey >>> non-all-stars Bellinelli, Bonner, Green, Kawhi)
.

[Lebron23]

We really weren't that good, we got taken 7 to Dallas and were 5 seconds from being down 3-1 in the 1st round.


I really hate your agenda. You aren't even a Spurs fan. You are a Dick riding homo. I really want to punch you in the face.

[lilteapot]

I really hate your agenda. You aren't even a Spurs fan. You are a Dick riding homo. I really want to punch you in the face.
:lol

[HOoopCityJones]

Lmao at bron stans begging Spurs fans to admit that was their best Team ever. :oldlol:

[lilteapot]

Lmao at bron stans begging Spurs fans to admit that was their best Team ever. :oldlol:
If you watch basketball, it's pretty clearly arguable that it is.

[3ball]

:lol
The Spurs Big 3 were old and past their prime in 2014.. They didn't beat the Heat based on talent.. They won based on a better brand of basketball, strategy, etc.

Otoh, the 1992 Blazers' best players WERE in their prime, while the supporting/role players were on a different level from the Spurs role players (i.e. Buck Williams, Kevin Duckworth, Clifford Robinson were all all-star caliber, plus Jerome Kersey >>> non-all-stars Bellinelli, Bonner, Green, Kawhi)

[Trollsmasher]

'13 and '14 Spurs are GOAT teams by all eye tests and metrics imaginable

it is a miracle LeBron managed to beat them even once, especially considering his supporting cast severely underperformed in both series

[Kvnzhangyay]

The Spurs Big 3 were old and past their prime in 2014.. They didn't beat the Heat based on talent.. They won based on a better brand of basketball, strategy, etc.

Otoh, the 1992 Blazers' best players WERE in their prime, while the supporting/role players were on a different level from the Spurs role players (i.e. Buck Williams, Kevin Duckworth, Clifford Robinson were all all-star caliber, plus Jerome Kersey >>> non-all-stars Bellinelli, Bonner, Green, Kawhi)

yeah the Blazers were more talented

Keep in mind that while on TALENT the Spurs are on the bottom of the pack for teams that won a ring, the stars aligned for the spurs in the finals. EVERYONE was on fire

As such, while the 2014 Spurs as a whole were not that good, the level they played at in the finals was one of the best of all time

[TheMan]

If you watch basketball, it's pretty clearly arguable that it is.
No

[r0drig0lac]

I really hate your agenda. You aren't even a Spurs fan. You are a Dick riding homo. I really want to punch you in the face.
:roll:

[HOoopCityJones]

If you watch basketball, it's pretty clearly arguable that it is.

:lol

[3ball]

'13 and '14 Spurs are GOAT teams by all eye tests and metrics imaginable


In the 2014 playoffs, the Spurs ONLY went crazy offensively against the Heat - they had a record 122 ORtg vs. the Heat, and no higher than a 113 ORtg against everyone else.. This proves the Heat were just that BAD, not that the Spurs were that great - the Spurs played normal against everyone else, confirming the Heat were just a bad team..

Infact, Dallas beat them 3 times and an injured OKC team beat them twice... The Spurs lost a total of 6 games before even reaching the Finals.. Several dozen other teams have done that, let alone trying to compare them to the Celtics, Lakers or Bulls who didn't lose any..

The reality is that the ONLY team the Spurs destroyed was the Heat.. If the Spurs were such a great team, they would've destroyed EVERYONE, like great teams do.. But they ONLY destroyed the Heat.. That proves you wrong.





it is a miracle LeBron managed to beat them even once (2013), especially considering his supporting cast severely underperformed in both series


Lebron only averaged 25 PPG on 44% in 2013, so that proves his team gave him a ton of help.. Wade averaged 20/5/5 on 48%.. Also, three other guys got double figures.

That Heat team was sickly stacked - Bosh, Wade, AND Ray Allen.. Birdman.. :facepalm.. Lebron had the only team in the league with 3 All-stars from 2011-2014, and it would be 2015 too if Lebron-ball hadn't turned Love into a completely different player altogether (much worse player).

Btw, if MJ averaged 25 PPG in the Finals, he'd be 0/6, instead of 6/6.
.

[kNicKz]

This thread is disrespectful

[Kvnzhangyay]

In the 2014 playoffs, the Spurs ONLY went crazy offensively against the Heat - they had a record 122 ORtg vs. the Heat, and no higher than a 113 ORtg against everyone else.. This proves the Heat were just that BAD, not that the Spurs were that great - the Spurs played normal against everyone else..

Infact, Dallas beat them 3 times and an injured OKC team beat them twice... The Spurs lost a total of 6 games before even reaching the Finals.. Several dozen other teams have done that, let alone trying to compare them to the Celtics, Lakers or Bulls who didn't lose any..

The reality is that the ONLY team the Spurs destroyed was the Heat.. If the Spurs were such a great team, they would've destroyed EVERYONE, like great teams do.. But they ONLY destroyed the Heat.. That proves you wrong.



Lebron only averaged 25 PPG on 44% in 2013, so that proves his team gave him a ton of help.. Wade averaged 20/5/5 on 48%.. Also, three other guys got double figures, including Bosh with 12/9 with 2 stl & 2 blk..

That Heat team was sickly stacked - Bosh, Wade, AND Ray Allen.. Birdman.. :facepalm.. Lebron had the only team in the league with 3 All-stars from 2011-2014, and it would be 2015 too if Lebron-ball hadn't turned Love into a completely different player altogether (much worse player).

If MJ averaged 25 PPG in the Finals, he'd be 0/6, instead of 6/6.

No, he would be about 4/6

[3ball]

No, he would be about 4/6


MJ's first 3-peat averages were 36 PPG on 53%... If he averaged 25 PPG on 44% he would be 0/3.. So right there you're wrong.

Let's move on to 1996.. He averaged 32 PPG on 46% thru 3 games to get his team a 3-0 lead and effectively end the series.. If he'd averaged 25 PPG on 44%, his team would've dropped some or all of those games..

Also, the 24 PPG vs. Gary Payton for the remainder of the series is all nice and good narrative - but that was garbage time when the series was over - MJ never put up numbers like that when it counted.. He saved his garbage numbers for garbage time, unlike Lebron.

Now moving on to the 1997 and 1998 Finals - 34 PPG on 45%... With 3 game-winners and close games througout.. 25 PPG on 44% with Lebron's lack of clutch (needing Ray Allen) wouldn't have cut it.

[DonDadda59]

God no :lol

[Kvnzhangyay]

MJ's first 3-peat averages were 36 PPG on 53%... If he averaged 25 PPG on 44% he would be 0/3.. So right there you're wrong.

Let's move on to 1996.. He averaged 32 PPG on 46% thru 3 games to get his team a 3-0 lead and effectively end the series.. If he'd averaged 25 PPG on 44%, his team would've dropped some or all of those games..

Also, the 24 PPG vs. Gary Payton for the remainder of the series is all nice and good narrative - but that was garbage time when the series was over - MJ never put up numbers like that when it counted.. He saved his garbage numbers for garbage time, unlike Lebron.

Now moving on to the 1997 and 1998 Finals - 34 PPG on 45%... With 3 game-winners and close games througout.. 25 PPG on 44% with Lebron's lack of clutch (needing Ray Allen) wouldn't have cut it.

What happened to you trying to argue that MJ was a better passer than Bron? If MJ was a better passer, which by your definition is an assist, then that means that his teammates would make more.

Also lmao

[3ball]

Also lmao


I thought I proved you wrong pretty severely - you said 25 PPG on 44% would've gotten Jordan 4/6 in the Finals, when he averaged 36 PPG on 53% thru his first 3-peat... 25 PPG on 44% would have gotten him 0/3.

As for 1997 and 1998 - again, 34 PPG on 45% cannot be reduced to 25 PPG on 44%.. That's nonsensical.

And in 1996, MJ's 32 PPG on 46% thru 3 games to get a 3-0 lead and end the series can't be accomplished with 25 PPG on 44%.

:confusedshrug:

[Cold soul]

No not really the Spurs in 07 and 05 along with maybe 03 were all better teams than 2014 team which was great just not as good.

[Kvnzhangyay]

I thought I proved you wrong pretty severely - you said 25 PPG on 44% would've gotten Jordan 4/6 in the Finals, when he averaged 36 PPG on 53% thru his first 3-peat... 25 PPG on 44% would have gotten him 0/3.

As for 1997 and 1998 - again, 34 PPG on 45% cannot be reduced to 25 PPG on 44%.. That's nonsensical.

And in 1996, MJ's 32 PPG on 46% thru 3 games to get a 3-0 lead and end the series can't be accomplished with 25 PPG on 44%.

:confusedshrug:

Actually I proved you wrong

He would have playmaked much better and helped his teammates much more. You saved me the work proving this by proving in previous threads how Jordan's teammates played horrible and how MJ was an amazing passer when he wanted to. Because he's such an amazing passer and his teammates played horrible in history, MJ would have made his teammates play at a much higher level due to his amazing passing.

This also helps MJ- passing more would either make the defense focus less on MJ, or let the role players dominate them

If this sounds crazy to you, then you're right- except this is also how you make arguments

You make huge assumptions and create causation when there is only causation.

[Spurs5Rings2014]

No not really the Spurs in 07 and 05 along with maybe 03 were all better teams than 2014 team which was great just not as good.

PEAK Duncan with literally D. Rob's corpse and 2nd option rookie Parker giving 14 PPG on 38% better than the '14 Spurs.

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: