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SilkkTheShocker
06-03-2015, 03:39 PM
Every analyst and their dog is picking LeBron and his Ex-Knick teammates to get crushed. There is no other way to spin it. GS has absolutely no reason to lose. Simply amazing what this is going to do when Cleveland beats them in 5 and LeBron skyrockets up the all-time list.

Rose'sACL
06-03-2015, 03:42 PM
GS are as big of a favorite to win as heat were in 2011 finals.
The big difference is that cavs are injured whereas mavs were healthy.

bdreason
06-03-2015, 03:46 PM
Young teams don't typically win titles. I haven't looked into it, but this Warriors team might be the youngest collective bunch to ever win a title.

BlazerRed
06-03-2015, 03:47 PM
Lebaldo stans be scramblin' for excuses before the inevitable 2/6 :oldlol:

Duncan21formvp
06-03-2015, 03:47 PM
Golden State has no one on the squad who even has any finals experience so no it would not be one of the biggest upsets ever.

SilkkTheShocker
06-03-2015, 03:49 PM
Young teams don't typically win titles. I haven't looked into it, but this Warriors team might be the youngest collective bunch to ever win a title.

Trust me, it hasn't swayed public opinion. The Cavs are one of the biggest underdogs in NBA history. Many predicting them to finish Cleveland in 4-5 games.

SilkkTheShocker
06-03-2015, 03:49 PM
Lebaldo stans be scramblin' for excuses before the inevitable 2/6 :oldlol:

Maybe you should learn how to read, f.ag boy. I have Cleveland winning in 5.

SilkkTheShocker
06-03-2015, 03:53 PM
Golden State has no one on the squad who even has any finals experience so no it would not be one of the biggest upsets ever.

You can try and convince yourself that all you want. When LeBron wins the title with players that couldn't cut in on the Knicks, an undrafted PG, hobbled Irving, no Love, and PF that people were calling a bust until a few months ago....well there is going to be a meltdown. There is no way to sugarcoat a GS lost. NONE. You can point to Finals inexperience. I can point to a Cavs team missing its #3 option, 2nd option is crippled, and a bunch role players Cleveland got from s.hitty teams.

gts
06-03-2015, 03:58 PM
Best player in the league, 6th NBA finals , quality roster with depth against a bunch of kids who have never played on a stage this big and Lebronstans are still deflecting...

Lebron should win this, he has everything on his side, there's no reason for him not to win

ArbitraryWater
06-03-2015, 04:02 PM
Best player in the league, 6th NBA finals , quality roster with depth against a bunch of kids who have never played on a stage this big and Lebronstans are still deflecting...

Lebron should win this, he has everything on his side, there's no reason for him not to win

do you Laker fans honestly believe this? :biggums:

Anyway, I'll ask you too.. how much money are you putting on the Cavs?

SilkkTheShocker
06-03-2015, 04:05 PM
Best player in the league, 6th NBA finals , quality roster with depth against a bunch of kids who have never played on a stage this big and Lebronstans are still deflecting...

Lebron should win this, he has everything on his side, there's no reason for him not to win

Another illiterate in this thread. I have Cleveland winning, Corky. But just because I do, doesn't change the narrative around this Finals. GS are heavy favorites. And analysts aren't buying the idea of LeBron winning a title with a bunch of cast-offs, former draft disappointment PF, hobbled 2nd option, and an undrafted PG. Cavs are absolutely heavy underdogs. Going to be funny to see how haters try to spin JR Smith being the second coming of Jesus and Thompson being a better version of Rodman :lol :lol

ArbitraryWater
06-03-2015, 04:05 PM
http://s4.postimg.org/h29f9xr71/Screen_Shot_2015_06_03_at_9_51_01_PM.png
http://s4.postimg.org/6tgy44359/Screen_Shot_2015_06_03_at_9_51_52_PM.png
http://s4.postimg.org/o981cu3bh/Screen_Shot_2015_05_30_at_11_03_15_AM.png

Laker fans just cant be taken seriously :lol

wait, lemme play...

okayyyy, explain y'all.. what is it that these guys are missing, which awesome insight of inside-hoops posters like gts are they not aware of? Is it that they are clueless of the fact that this is LeBron's FIFTH CONSECUTIVE FINAL??!?!?!?! (oh but wait, those are irrelevant cause weak East, don't matter vs West teams)

SilkkTheShocker
06-03-2015, 04:06 PM
do you Laker fans honestly believe this? :biggums:

Anyway, I'll ask you too.. how much money are you putting on the Cavs?

That's what I am saying. Put some money on Cleveland. I mean apparently they all knew how amazing Shumpert, Smith, and Dellevedova were coming into the postseason? Bet it all on the Cavs and cash-in.

imdaman99
06-03-2015, 04:07 PM
Enough of that corny storyline how he is taking Knick rejects to a championship.

Trades were made. His team was 19-20 with him ready to quit on the season before the GM bailed him out and got him an athletic center and then the right chips that fit. Plus he is playing in the East.

Stop trying to give him all of the credit. Apparently the 3s JR chucks and makes when Lebron is on the bench are because of Lebron as well :facepalm

UK2K
06-03-2015, 04:10 PM
Every analyst and their dog is picking LeBron and his Ex-Knick teammates to get crushed. There is no other way to spin it. GS has absolutely no reason to lose. Simply amazing what this is going to do when Cleveland beats them in 5 and LeBron skyrockets up the all-time list.
Other than Cleveland having the best player in the world in an ISO dominated game.

Yeah, other than that...

SilkkTheShocker
06-03-2015, 04:10 PM
Phil Jackson traded Shumpert and Smith for a half-stick of gum. But lets just pretend they were always seen as key pieces on a title team, right? :oldlol:

ISHGoat
06-03-2015, 04:15 PM
Phil Jackson traded Shumpert and Smith for a half-stick of gum. But lets just pretend they were always seen as key pieces on a title team, right? :oldlol:

desperate times for lebron haters man

theyll have you believe JR is prime kobe and shumpert is ray allen on offense and bruce bowen on defense

:roll:

funny how everyone that plays with lebron gets propped up by his haters.

NumberSix
06-03-2015, 04:16 PM
Just because media members are picking GSW doesn't mean they should be favoured.

I'm not as sold on GSW as everybody else seems to be. Then again, maybe I'm just biased. I wouldn't mind LeBron winning another title, but I don't want Cleveland to win. Maybe I'm just a pessimist and I expect the thing I don't want to happen to happen.

I don't really have that much faith in the Warriors to get the job done.

Beastmode88
06-03-2015, 04:17 PM
Majority of the media picked heat in 2011. Look what happened. :lol :lol

SilkkTheShocker
06-03-2015, 04:18 PM
desperate times for lebron haters man

theyll have you believe JR is prime kobe and shumpert is ray allen on offense and bruce bowen on defense

:roll:

funny how everyone that plays with lebron gets propped up by his haters.

It really is amazing. I mean New York MADE Cleveland take Smith's contract in order so they could get Shump. And at the time, Shumpert was recovering from a bad shoulder injury. I mean if these guys were so special, why weren't teams throwing picks at them? The Cavs must just be really lucky, huh? :oldlol:

kuniva_dAMiGhTy
06-03-2015, 04:23 PM
do you Laker fans honestly believe this? :biggums:

Anyway, I'll ask you too.. how much money are you putting on the Cavs?

Reading glasses? Gts is only one poster. Where are "Laker fans" claiming this?

ArbitraryWater
06-03-2015, 04:26 PM
Reading glasses? Gts is only one poster. Where are "Laker fans" claiming this?

http://i.gyazo.com/6f7393ba9e20648a961c85e74f9543fb.png

was your post really necessary? You really believe these are the only ones? Setting yourself up. It's shocking, but these are Laker/Kobe turds.. nuts.

daily
06-03-2015, 04:30 PM
Lebron fans trying to downplay JR Smith a former NBA 6th man of the year and Shumpert is really sad.

Knicks were doing a salary dump, the trade was one sided heavily in favor of the Cavs because it was supposed to be. The trade is alos why the Cavs are in the NBA finals. Withut JR or Shumpert the Cavs would be on their computers talking about the NBA on NBC theme song along with the rest of us.

Now according to Lebronies JR and Shump suck, Knicks won the trade and the Cavs are worse than they were before they got there :roll: :roll: :roll: Sad days for Lebronies sad sad days that they have to lower themselves so low just to prop up their guy in advance of game 1

ArbitraryWater
06-03-2015, 04:31 PM
these trades were done a few months ago and this was NOT the perception at the time, Laker fans quick with their revisionist history :lol

kuniva_dAMiGhTy
06-03-2015, 04:33 PM
http://i.gyazo.com/6f7393ba9e20648a961c85e74f9543fb.png

was your post really necessary? You really believe these are the only ones? Setting yourself up. It's shocking, but these are Laker/Kobe turds.. nuts.
Yes. I haven't seen Laker fans, the actual fanbase, claim this.

Aside from a few Kobe fans (Droid), trolls, and maybe 1 or 2 Laker fans, nobody is suggesting the Cavs are favorites.

SilkkTheShocker
06-03-2015, 04:33 PM
these trades were done a few months ago and this was NOT the perception at the time, Laker fans quick with their revisionist history :lol

This. No one said they sucked. They have been great these playoffs. But you can't play the revisionist history game with them. Both players were seen as absolute losers until LeBron got that Knick stink off of them.

daily
06-03-2015, 04:34 PM
Reading glasses? Gts is only one poster. Where are "Laker fans" claiming this? That Arbitrary guy reminds me of my aunts little Chihuahua. Always running around ISH nipping at everyone's heels trying to get in on every topic even though it's clear he's just a copy and paste expert. That's why he averages 40 posts a day of stupid. That dogs name is Martin, I think I'll call him martin from now on

kuniva_dAMiGhTy
06-03-2015, 04:35 PM
That Arbitrary guy reminds me of my aunts little Chihuahua. Always running around ISH nipping at everyone's heels trying to get in on every topic even though it's clear he's just a copy and paste expert. That's why he averages 40 posts a day of stupid. That dogs name is Martin, I think I'll call him martin from now on
:roll:

Forreal tho. Its tiresome reading his Kobe/Laker fan agenda. Kid is seeing ghosts.

ArbitraryWater
06-03-2015, 04:37 PM
Yes. I haven't seen Laker fans, the actual fanbase, claim this.

Aside from a few Kobe fans (Droid), trolls, and maybe 1 or 2 Laker fans, nobody is suggesting the Cavs are favorites.

I think droid would like to identify as Laker fan.. gts too, so I'll ask again, how was your shit worth it?

smoovegittar
06-03-2015, 04:48 PM
Only for LeBron haters. GS is a great team, but they aren't a shoo-in to beat Cavs. Bron is on another level right now.

chazzy
06-03-2015, 04:49 PM
okayyyy, explain y'all.. what is it that these guys are missing, which awesome insight of inside-hoops posters like gts are they not aware of?
If you want to go down the path of ESPN predictions, then you're in for a bad time. See: Orlando 09, Celtics 10, Mavs 11

ArbitraryWater
06-03-2015, 04:51 PM
If you want to go down the path of ESPN predictions, then you're in for a bad time. See: Orlando 09, Celtics 10, Mavs 11

those teams were too reliant on a single player, those teams tend to run out of it in the playoffs, with cut rotations, more defensive attention.. but yea, valid point. I do think there are clear differences between those Cavs teams and this Warrior one.

nba_55
06-03-2015, 04:55 PM
If you want to go down the path of ESPN predictions, then you're in for a bad time. See: Orlando 09, Celtics 10, Mavs 11

That's 3 series with wrong predictions out of like more than 40 series. How is that supposed to be bad?

DMAVS41
06-03-2015, 04:58 PM
Just because media members are picking GSW doesn't mean they should be favoured.

I'm not as sold on GSW as everybody else seems to be. Then again, maybe I'm just biased. I wouldn't mind LeBron winning another title, but I don't want Cleveland to win. Maybe I'm just a pessimist and I expect the thing I don't want to happen to happen.

I don't really have that much faith in the Warriors to get the job done.


No, they should be favored because they were the clear cut best team in the league all year and have the best home court advantage in the league...and are playing a Cavs team without it's 3rd best player and it's 2nd best player likely not 100%.

This wouldn't be the biggest upset in NBA history or anything, but it would be a pretty big upset.

Droid101
06-03-2015, 04:59 PM
Cavs are +12.5 per 48 when LeBron is on the pine. Most stacked team ever. If they lose, LeBron drops out of top 50.

gts
06-03-2015, 05:02 PM
No, they should be favored because they were the clear cut best team in the league all year and have the best home court advantage in the league...and are playing a Cavs team without it's 3rd best player and it's 2nd best player likely not 100%.

This wouldn't be the biggest upset in NBA history or anything, but it would be a pretty big upset.

no it wouldn't... that just the OP trying to make something out of thin air

lebron winning another ring should never be considered an upset or surprise win. to bad his fans feel they need to downplay his skills by labeling his wins as upsets

jimmy77x
06-03-2015, 05:03 PM
A player who is proclaimed to be " the best in the world" has no excuses, NONE! bran stans desperate to give him all the credit for everything when things go right and blame everyone else when things go wrong, just like LEspn. How the hell can the best player in the league be an underdog:lol pathetic d!ckriding stans :roll: :roll:

BBallZen83
06-03-2015, 05:04 PM
Cavs are +12.5 per 48 when LeBron is on the pine. Most stacked team ever. If they lose, LeBron drops out of top 50.

Mind coming back with a non-troll post? Seriously, what do you think about the Warriors being heavily favored? They are one of the best teams in recent memory.

SilkkTheShocker
06-03-2015, 05:05 PM
no it wouldn't... that just the OP trying to make something out of thin air

lebron winning another ring should never be considered an upset or surprise win. to bad his fans feel they need to downplay his skills by labeling his wins as upsets

Who is downplaying his skills? He took Knicks cast-offs, a former draft bust, and an undrafted PG to the Finals. No one else in NBA history could take that team the way he has to the Finals :applause:

BBallZen83
06-03-2015, 05:05 PM
A player who is proclaimed to be " the best in the world" has no excuses, NONE! bran stans desperate to give him all the credit for everything when things go right and blame everyone else when things go wrong, just like LEspn. How the hell can the best player in the league be an underdog:lol pathetic d!ckriding stans :roll: :roll:

Dude, come on... Seriously. Team sport.

gts
06-03-2015, 05:09 PM
Who is downplaying his skills? He took Knicks cast-offs, a former draft bust, and an undrafted PG to the Finals. No one else in NBA history could take that team the way he has to the Finals :applause:but now you're saying he can't win it or if he did it's the greatest upset in NBA history :roll: :roll: :roll:


at least try and be consistent

riseagainst
06-03-2015, 05:11 PM
the way silkk is putting it is that Cavs have 0 chance of winning, no matter what lebron and co does. So if the Warriors manage to lose, it'll be more of a choke on their part than lebron playing out of his mind.

PP34Deuce
06-03-2015, 05:13 PM
If Cleveland wins the finals, Lebron makes the top 7 all time. I feel alot of people have him in their 12-17 range.

Duncan21formvp
06-03-2015, 05:14 PM
You can try and convince yourself that all you want. When LeBron wins the title with players that couldn't cut in on the Knicks, an undrafted PG, hobbled Irving, no Love, and PF that people were calling a bust until a few months ago....well there is going to be a meltdown. There is no way to sugarcoat a GS lost. NONE. You can point to Finals inexperience. I can point to a Cavs team missing its #3 option, 2nd option is crippled, and a bunch role players Cleveland got from s.hitty teams.
Irving is the best player on the team, Lebron is the sidekick.

SilkkTheShocker
06-03-2015, 05:14 PM
but now you're saying he can't win it or if he did it's the greatest upset in NBA history :roll: :roll: :roll:


at least try and be consistent

Let me ask you something, are you mentally r.etarded? Because I literally said in my first post that Cleveland is going to win 5 games. Doesn't change the fact that the national media has them as HUGE UNDERDOGS, and GS has BY FAR a way more talented team.

24-Inch_Chrome
06-03-2015, 05:15 PM
Upset? Yes. One of the biggest ever? Not even close.

RoundMoundOfReb
06-03-2015, 05:15 PM
GS are as big of a favorite to win as heat were in 2011 finals.
The big difference is that cavs are injured whereas mavs were healthy.
No. This is simply not true. The betting line is much wider this time.

PP34Deuce
06-03-2015, 05:16 PM
Who is downplaying his skills? He took Knicks cast-offs, a former draft bust, and an undrafted PG to the Finals. No one else in NBA history could take that team the way he has to the Finals :applause:

I just want to say while Shumpert and Smith aren't superstars, they are still solid starters. Their issues are maturity, not their game.

JR Smith has 18PPG 6RPG 4APG talent. When he's focused, he can be a legit threat and good starter.

Shumpert is a legit all nba defender who can do a lil of everything like Iggy.

Ne 1
06-03-2015, 05:21 PM
http://s4.postimg.org/h29f9xr71/Screen_Shot_2015_06_03_at_9_51_01_PM.png
http://s4.postimg.org/6tgy44359/Screen_Shot_2015_06_03_at_9_51_52_PM.png
http://s4.postimg.org/o981cu3bh/Screen_Shot_2015_05_30_at_11_03_15_AM.png

Laker fans just cant be taken seriously :lol

wait, lemme play...

okayyyy, explain y'all.. what is it that these guys are missing, which awesome insight of inside-hoops posters like gts are they not aware of? Is it that they are clueless of the fact that this is LeBron's FIFTH CONSECUTIVE FINAL??!?!?!?! (oh but wait, those are irrelevant cause weak East, don't matter vs West teams)
The Cavs/Heat were also heavy favorites from 2009-2011. Can't explain that.

JebronLames
06-03-2015, 05:27 PM
I just want to say while Shumpert and Smith aren't superstars, they are still solid starters. Their issues are maturity, not their game.

JR Smith has 18PPG 6RPG 4APG talent. When he's focused, he can be a legit threat and good starter.

Shumpert is a legit all nba defender who can do a lil of everything like Iggy.
Blackandwhite

Solefade
06-03-2015, 05:30 PM
i thought everyone was saying GSW is a historically great team? now they're just a bunch of kids?

Droid101
06-03-2015, 05:31 PM
the way silkk is putting it is that Cavs have 0 chance of winning, no matter what lebron and co does. So if the Warriors manage to lose, it'll be more of a choke on their part than lebron playing out of his mind.
I'm a HUGE Lebron fan, and this is true.

Fudge
06-03-2015, 05:31 PM
Cavs in 5. No excuses.

Shouldn't honestly go farther than that.

Legends66NBA7
06-03-2015, 05:32 PM
i thought everyone was saying GSW is a historically great team? now they're just a bunch of kids?

Because nobody can make up their mind.

G0ATbe
06-03-2015, 05:34 PM
100% healthy, cavs are the most stacked team in the league by far. With Varejao/Love out, at least they're almost even with golden state in terms of stackedness. It'd be an upset if cavs lose. Absolutely NO excuses.

Solefade
06-03-2015, 05:39 PM
Cavs in 5. No excuses.

Shouldn't honestly go farther than that.


drake fan lulz

ArbitraryWater
06-03-2015, 05:45 PM
No, they should be favored because they were the clear cut best team in the league all year and have the best home court advantage in the league...and are playing a Cavs team without it's 3rd best player and it's 2nd best player likely not 100%.

This wouldn't be the biggest upset in NBA history or anything, but it would be a pretty big upset.

yep.. would be huge.. I love how his haters immediately try to downplay it, ignoring reality and be like 'yo he has all he needs'... well maybe if he goes insane mode, but he shouldn't need to do that, and likely doesn't have it in him anymore... its hard finding players capable of beating this GSW team with Thompson as sidekick.

I'd definitely pick the Cavs with a healthy KI/Love.

Prometheus
06-03-2015, 06:14 PM
Cavs are +12.5 per 48 when LeBron is on the pine. Most stacked team ever. If they lose, LeBron drops out of top 50.

I can't believe you say shit like this, and then have the nerve to bitch and whine about your ignore list and how people belong on it. Seriously, you disgust me.

Rocketswin2013
06-03-2015, 06:15 PM
Because nobody can make up their mind.
People don't even want to ****ing rate Curry. He should be expected to win this without any excuses.

gts
06-03-2015, 06:19 PM
i thought everyone was saying GSW is a historically great team? now they're just a bunch of kids?you do realize it's possible to be a great team and a bunch of kids inexperienced in the NBA fianls which of basically what the warriors are...


Plus other than a couple Warriors fans I don't see anyone let alone "everyone" saying they are a "historically great team"

Don't go full moron like AW or Sillk and start painting with that wide a paintbrush

100grandman
06-03-2015, 06:20 PM
Irving is the best player on the team, Lebron is the sidekick.

WTF is wrong with you

DMAVS41
06-03-2015, 06:23 PM
yep.. would be huge.. I love how his haters immediately try to downplay it, ignoring reality and be like 'yo he has all he needs'... well maybe if he goes insane mode, but he shouldn't need to do that, and likely doesn't have it in him anymore... its hard finding players capable of beating this GSW team with Thompson as sidekick.

I'd definitely pick the Cavs with a healthy KI/Love.

Shouldn't need to?

Not sure what you mean there.

I do think that if Lebron plays a truly dominant series that the Cavs have a legit chance.

Legends66NBA7
06-03-2015, 06:23 PM
People don't even want to ****ing rate Curry. He should be expected to win this without any excuses.

I agree. You come this far and your team is healthy all year, should get the chip.

Droid101
06-03-2015, 06:28 PM
I can't believe you say shit like this, and then have the nerve to bitch and whine about your ignore list and how people belong on it. Seriously, you disgust me.
Eh? I purged the list when LeBron went home. The meltdowns were legendary. :lol

Solefade
06-03-2015, 06:32 PM
Don't go full moron like AW or Sillk and start painting with that wide a paintbrush

:whatever:

bruh take your own advice lmao

Solefade
06-03-2015, 06:33 PM
Eh? I purged the list when LeBron went home. The meltdowns were legendary. :lol


lmao he "purged the list" everybody :roll: :applause:

TheMan
06-03-2015, 06:37 PM
I got the Cavs because I think GSWs youth and inexperience will lead them to choke. All the pressure is on them, hardly anyone is picking Cleveland. The Cavs will play pressure free, they're playing with house money.

OP, stop pretending the Cavs role players haven't stepped up big time. They wouldn't have gotten past Chicago had the role players not curbstomped our role players, LeBron had a horrible series FG% and turnover-wise.

kuniva_dAMiGhTy
06-03-2015, 07:17 PM
I think droid would like to identify as Laker fan.. gts too, so I'll ask again, how was your shit worth it?
Is what "worth it"? Stop speaking in tongues and spit it out, young foreigner. :lol

kamil
06-03-2015, 07:24 PM
Every analyst and their dog is picking LeBron and his Ex-Knick teammates to get crushed. There is no other way to spin it. GS has absolutely no reason to lose. Simply amazing what this is going to do when Cleveland beats them in 5 and LeBron skyrockets up the all-time list.

This has been discussed already. The biggest upset was Detroit completely destroying Los Angeles in 2004.

Quit being a LeBron* jockhugger.

diamenz
06-03-2015, 08:27 PM
curry is going to rape lebron and silkk is going to wipe the shit off of his dick.

sd3035
06-03-2015, 08:32 PM
Not as big as the epic choke Lebald had against Dallas, or Miami getting raped by the biggest differential in Finals history last year

JohnFreeman
06-03-2015, 08:38 PM
Like ish says, gsw are an historically great team. If LeBron wins he will be a god

BBallZen83
06-03-2015, 08:45 PM
Not as big as the epic choke Lebald had against Dallas, or Miami getting raped by the biggest differential in Finals history last year

How would Miami losing to the Spurs last year be a bigger upset than the Warriors losing this year? Heat weren't even favored to win the Finals last year against the Spurs. Doesn't make sense in the context of being an upset...

And don't even try to blame last year on Bron. Pretty much the whole team collectively shit the bed in the finals last year besides him. If anything, it was the opposite of 2011.

NBASTATMAN
06-03-2015, 09:50 PM
This Cavs team is one of the worse ever to reach the finals...


http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/where-this-years-cavs-rank-among-lebrons-nba-finals-supporting-casts/

Hey Yo
06-03-2015, 10:11 PM
This has been discussed already. The biggest upset was Detroit completely destroying Los Angeles in 2004.

Quit being a LeBron* jockhugger.
How was that an upset?

Kobe abandoned the offensive scheme in order to try to win himself an FMVP. Shaq was ignored while Kobe was getting shut down by 2nd year player Tayshaun...... but KoME kept chucking.

It's not an upset when a player decides to take it upon himself to change the plans and then fails miserably in the process.

24-Inch_Chrome
06-03-2015, 10:13 PM
How was that an upset?

Kobe abandoned the offensive scheme in order to try to win himself an FMVP. Shaq was ignored while Kobe was getting shut down by 2nd year player Tayshaun...... but KoME kept chucking.

It's not an upset when a player decides to take it upon himself to change the plans and then fails miserably in the process.

It was an upset because LA was expected to win but didn't. That's how upsets work. Just like 2011 was an upset; the team that was expected to win didn't.

DMAVS41
06-03-2015, 10:20 PM
This Cavs team is one of the worse ever to reach the finals...


http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/where-this-years-cavs-rank-among-lebrons-nba-finals-supporting-casts/

Yep.

And they probably wouldn't be there if the conferences were balanced.

I do like seeing the numbers on stuff like this.

I wonder if people will still say that Dirk's supporting cast in 11 was all time great...LOL

Have to say I disagree with a lot on there though...David Robinson was not the best player on the 99 Spurs. That is absurd.

guy
06-03-2015, 10:57 PM
Do Lebron fans realize there would be no way the Cavs would ever be considered underdogs if Lebron didn't have a bad history of choking and losing terribly? :oldlol:

SilkkTheShocker
06-03-2015, 11:57 PM
lmao he "purged the list" everybody :roll: :applause:
This �������� for real, dude. Go out and get your fatass laid. "Purged my ignore list". I bet their was sweat dripping down his fedora as his fat fingers typed. Disgusting.

Da_Realist
06-03-2015, 11:59 PM
Best player in the league, 6th NBA finals , quality roster with depth against a bunch of kids who have never played on a stage this big and Lebronstans are still deflecting...

Lebron should win this, he has everything on his side, there's no reason for him not to win

I totally agree. I'm not buying the "Warriors are overwhelming favorites" premise. They may be more talented 1-12 but Cleveland has the bigger team (and will probably outrebound GS), the better defense and Lebron James (who GS can't defend). I can't write Cleveland off.

Rebounding will be a problem. GS will need to knock down a ton of jumpshots.

Droid101
06-04-2015, 12:00 AM
This 😂😂😂😂 for real, dude. Go out and get your fatass laid. "Purged my ignore list". I bet their was swear stripping down his fedora as his fat fingers typed. Disgusting.
http://www.black-ogre.com/blackogreonline/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/im-projecting.jpg

SilkkTheShocker
06-04-2015, 12:08 AM
Not as big as the epic choke Lebald had against Dallas, or Miami getting raped by the biggest differential in Finals history last year
I'm glad you found something to fall back on when your "historically great team" gets curbstompted. Giving up already? Y'all are too easy. :oldlol:

Ne 1
06-04-2015, 12:10 AM
How was that an upset?

Kobe abandoned the offensive scheme in order to try to win himself an FMVP. Shaq was ignored while Kobe was getting shut down by 2nd year player Tayshaun...... but KoME kept chucking.

It's not an upset when a player decides to take it upon himself to change the plans and then fails miserably in the process.

Of course. The easy narrative of the Lakers losing that series that people like to latch onto (particularly Kobe detractors) is that Kobe was gunning for Finals MVP and then after that he forced Shaq out of L.A. , but that's pretty far from the actual truth on both accounts. It's not a coincidence that the biggest blow-out for Detroit that series came in the game where Bryant only took 13 shots. They literally had nobody who could create anything on the perimeter and nobody who could shoot. At times they were running a lineup of Kobe, Kareem Rush, Slava Medvedenko, Devean George, and Derek Fisher. With Malone, Grant, and Rick Fox injured, they no longer had Robert Horry, and Payton was totally ineffective on both sides of the court getting embarrassed by Billups, this may be a worse team top to bottom than Kobe's 2006 squad outside of Shaq. But its more fun to imagine Kobe dribbling down the court with devil horns sticking out of his head, cackling like a mad scientist as he jacks up 30 foot fade-aways over 5 defenders while Shaq is under the rim wide open, on both knees, hands clasped together begging for the ball. We actually tried to force-feed Shaq plenty. It was almost as good for a turnover as it was a field goal. The game Kobe had the least shot attempts, 13, Shaq still only shot 14 times. If Bryant's chucking was the only thing preventing Shaq from getting the rock and putting it in the hole, you'd think he'd have shot 25+ times with Kobe easing up, but that's not how basketball works.

It is how good the Pistons defense was though. "You want to get the ball inside? Good luck." They weren't holding teams to <80ppg because they didn't know how to handle post players. Actually getting the basketball in the paint was a bitch, be you perimeter player or bigman.

The guards outside of Kobe shot 30% for the series. The small forwards (Walton and George) shot 40%. The team as a whole shot 33% outside of Shaq. Nobody was making shots from the perimeter when Kobe fed them, and the Pistons made it difficult to feed Shaq inside the way they would have liked to. Kobe is Kobe, and he thinks he can make anything no matter what. Do the math.

Droid101
06-04-2015, 12:14 AM
Of course. The easy narrative of the Lakers losing that series that people like to latch onto (particularly Kobe detractors) is that Kobe was gunning for Finals MVP and then after that he forced Shaq out of L.A. , but that's pretty far from the actual truth on both accounts. It's not a coincidence that the biggest blow-out for Detroit that series came in the game where Bryant only took 13 shots. They literally had nobody who could create anything on the perimeter and nobody who could shoot. At times they were running a lineup of Kobe, Kareem Rush, Slava Medvedenko, Devean George, and Derek Fisher. With Malone, Grant, and Rick Fox injured, they no longer had Robert Horry, and Payton was totally ineffective on both sides of the court getting embarrassed by Billups, this may be a worse team top to bottom than Kobe's 2006 squad outside of Shaq. But its more fun to imagine Kobe dribbling down the court with devil horns sticking out of his head, cackling like a mad scientist as he jacks up 30 foot fade-aways over 5 defenders while Shaq is under the rim wide open, on both knees, hands clasped together begging for the ball. We actually tried to force-feed Shaq plenty. It was almost as good for a turnover as it was a field goal. The game Kobe had the least shot attempts, 13, Shaq still only shot 14 times. If Bryant's chucking was the only thing preventing Shaq from getting the rock and putting it in the hole, you'd think he'd have shot 25+ times with Kobe easing up, but that's not how basketball works.

It is how good the Pistons defense was though. "You want to get the ball inside? Good luck." They weren't holding teams to <80ppg because they didn't know how to handle post players. Actually getting the basketball in the paint was a bitch, be you perimeter player or bigman.

The guards outside of Kobe shot 30% for the series. The small forwards (Walton and George) shot 40%. The team as a whole shot 33% outside of Shaq. Nobody was making shots from the perimeter when Kobe fed them, and the Pistons made it difficult to feed Shaq inside the way they would have liked to. Kobe is Kobe, and he thinks he can make anything no matter what. Do the math.
rat poison

SilkkTheShocker
06-04-2015, 12:15 AM
This Cavs team is one of the worse ever to reach the finals...


http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/where-this-years-cavs-rank-among-lebrons-nba-finals-supporting-casts/
-hobbled Irving
-2nd and 3rd options with Irving hurt were former Knicks players
-undrafted PG playing huge mins
-Mozgov trade was looked at as a desperation trade when it happened. People bitched that be wasn't worth two crappy 1st rounders.

The meltdown that will take place when Cleveland wins will be epic. Like the 2013 Finals aftermath on steroids

Droid101
06-04-2015, 12:20 AM
Cavs +12.5 points per 48 possessions this post season with LeBron on the bench. Stacked beyond belief. If he loses, out of the top 30 without question.

sd3035
06-04-2015, 12:22 AM
Cavs +12.5 points per 48 possessions this post season with LeBron on the bench. Stacked beyond belief. If he loses, out of the top 30 without question.
:biggums:

Cavs are basically winning despite Lebaldo

JohnFreeman
06-04-2015, 12:23 AM
This �������� for real, dude. Go out and get your fatass laid. "Purged my ignore list". I bet their was sweat dripping down his fedora as his fat fingers typed. Disgusting.
:roll:

plowking
06-04-2015, 12:26 AM
Lebron should win this, he has everything on his side, there's no reason for him not to win

Everything apart from more talent, less injuries, experience, time for team to mesh and better player 1-12.

Apart from that, everything.

And Droid, top 30? I won't recognize him as a NBA player anymore if he loses.

greymatter
06-04-2015, 12:44 AM
I got the Cavs because I think GSWs youth and inexperience will lead them to choke. All the pressure is on them, hardly anyone is picking Cleveland. The Cavs will play pressure free, they're playing with house money.

OP, stop pretending the Cavs role players haven't stepped up big time. They wouldn't have gotten past Chicago had the role players not curbstomped our role players, LeBron had a horrible series FG% and turnover-wise.

Chicago choked moreso than Cleveland won. If you can't win a game where Lebron and Kyrie combine for 12/40 shooting, you don't deserve to advance.

Ne 1
06-04-2015, 01:10 AM
Chicago choked moreso than Cleveland won. If you can't win a game where Lebron and Kyrie combine for 12/40 shooting, you don't deserve to advance.
The biggest problem was that Chicago's offense was basically non-existent without Gasol. They were up 2-1, Pau gets injured and they lose 3 straight games.

Sarcastic
06-04-2015, 05:43 AM
Vegas still has it 2:1 which is all that matters. All the clown's picks from ESPN mean nothing. 2:1 is not considered a heavy favorite.

For example Heat were like 10:1 favorites in 2011. That's a heavy favorite.

NZStreetBaller
06-04-2015, 07:34 AM
Lebron makes all the difference here... ill admit cavs are huge underdogs and should get slaughtered i cant even imagine them winning. But lebron is very dangerous in the situation he almost has 5x the finals experience as any other player. And its ben consecutive. All that said it still is a huge uphill battle for the cavs.

Gsw are without a doubt the better team but with any sport it all depends on who shows up on the day. The unfortunate thing with that statement is this is a 7 game series. So 1 good game will not cut it.

sportjames23
06-04-2015, 07:43 AM
Enough of that corny storyline how he is taking Knick rejects to a championship.

Trades were made. His team was 19-20 with him ready to quit on the season before the GM bailed him out and got him an athletic center and then the right chips that fit. Plus he is playing in the East.

Stop trying to give him all of the credit. Apparently the 3s JR chucks and makes when Lebron is on the bench are because of Lebron as well :facepalm


Silkk gettin bodied in his own thread. :oldlol:

UK2K
06-04-2015, 08:18 AM
Bovad has the line at Warriors -5.5. Home court is 3 points... so a 2.5pt favorite?

THE GREATEST UNDERDOG STORY OF ALL TIME MINUS THE BEST PLAYER IN THE WORLD.

:lol

Good try though.

aj1987
06-04-2015, 08:37 AM
That Arbitrary guy reminds me of my aunts little Chihuahua. Always running around ISH nipping at everyone's heels trying to get in on every topic even though it's clear he's just a copy and paste expert. That's why he averages 40 posts a day of stupid. That dogs name is Martin, I think I'll call him martin from now on
Rekt. :roll: :roll: :roll:

SilkkTheShocker
06-04-2015, 09:05 AM
Bovad has the line at Warriors -5.5. Home court is 3 points... so a 2.5pt favorite?

THE GREATEST UNDERDOG STORY OF ALL TIME MINUS THE BEST PLAYER IN THE WORLD.

:lol

Good try though.

No one with a James Harden avatar should be talking s.hit, son. :oldlol:

SilkkTheShocker
06-04-2015, 09:07 AM
Chicago choked moreso than Cleveland won. If you can't win a game where Lebron and Kyrie combine for 12/40 shooting, you don't deserve to advance.

You mean the Chicago that everyone picked to beat Cleveland before the series? Same with Atlanta. These teams only suck once Cleveland beat them. :oldlol:

LikeABosh
06-04-2015, 09:08 AM
The first day of reckoning is here :cheers: . Summer 2015 will be known as the mass exodus of Lebron haters.

Derka
06-04-2015, 09:18 AM
Chicago choked moreso than Cleveland won. If you can't win a game where Lebron and Kyrie combine for 12/40 shooting, you don't deserve to advance.
Losing three in a row and two at home isn't choking; its getting your ass kicked by a better team.

ISHGoat
06-04-2015, 09:35 AM
Vegas still has it 2:1 which is all that matters. All the clown's picks from ESPN mean nothing. 2:1 is not considered a heavy favorite.

For example Heat were like 10:1 favorites in 2011. That's a heavy favorite.

No they werent. Mavs were a 1.6:1 dog, which is much less than youll get paid for betting on cleveland right now

http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2011/5/31/2198658/nba-finals-2011-odds-miami-heat-dallas-mavericks

Sarcastic
06-04-2015, 09:35 AM
Bovad has the line at Warriors -5.5. Home court is 3 points... so a 2.5pt favorite?

THE GREATEST UNDERDOG STORY OF ALL TIME MINUS THE BEST PLAYER IN THE WORLD.

:lol

Good try though.


GS gets like on average around 12 points for every other home game. This is the first time they are single digit favorites. The idea that they are heavy favorites is pure fantasy, and the people that keep perpetuating this myth should be taken out back and shot in the head, so that they can't further corrupt the gene pool.

SilkkTheShocker
06-04-2015, 09:48 AM
Losing three in a row and two at home isn't choking; its getting your ass kicked by a better team.

Cleveland gets picked to lose the last two series by the majority of people on ISH. They win both series, with the ECF being an absolute r.ape. But all you will see now is people saying "they sucked" :oldlol:

dunksby
06-04-2015, 09:53 AM
Why is it that LeBron is always the underdog? Most disrespected all-time great ever...

SilkkTheShocker
06-04-2015, 09:56 AM
Why is it that LeBron is always the underdog? Most disrespected all-time great ever...

People will spin it that Cleveland was always the favorite when they win.

BlazerRed
06-04-2015, 09:58 AM
Maybe you should learn how to read, f.ag boy. I have Cleveland winning in 5.
But you make threads like this to help your insecure self wrap your head around things if the Warriors win :oldlol: Why bother making a thread like this if you're so sure the Cavs will win? To convince others the Warriors are 100x better so the Cavs have an excuse for losing? :facepalm

ArbitraryWater
06-04-2015, 09:59 AM
Everything apart from more talent, less injuries, experience, time for team to mesh and better player 1-12.

Apart from that, everything.

And Droid, top 30? I won't recognize him as a NBA player anymore if he loses.

:lol shouldn't try to argue with Laker fans.. haven't seen gts say something logical, ever.

Heavincent
06-04-2015, 10:00 AM
Remember when Lebron's teams were usually favored in his first stint in Cleveland? The 09 Magic and 2010 Celtics were considerable underdogs.

Lots of revisionist history about the 09 and 10 Cavs. They were expected to win.

riseagainst
06-04-2015, 10:01 AM
Lebron best player in the world, but he's always the greatest underdog in the playoffs.
Water is wet.
OP is a fakkit.

ArbitraryWater
06-04-2015, 10:01 AM
Remember when Lebron's teams were usually favored in his first stint in Cleveland? The 09 Magic and 2010 Celtics were considerable underdogs.

Lots of revisionist history about the 09 and 10 Cavs. They were expected to win.

this is smart, thanks bro.. so riddle me this, why did they lose? 2009, 2010 (we know why in 2011).

SilkkTheShocker
06-04-2015, 10:02 AM
But you make threads like this to help your insecure self wrap your head around if the Warriors win :oldlol: Why bother making a thread like this if you're so sure the Cavs will win? To convince others the Warriors are 100x better so the Cavs have an excuse for losing? :facepalm

You can convince yourself into whatever. But we both know that when the Cavs win, the meltdown here is going to be epic. GS is getting compared to all-time great teams and are favored by at least 80% of the analysts. LeBron haters like yourself will have absolutely nothing to spin it when he wins a title with Knicks role players and a crippled PG.

DMAVS41
06-04-2015, 10:03 AM
People will spin it that Cleveland was always the favorite when they win.

That is what people do.

The Mavs win in 11...despite clearly being underdogs and it taking a pretty massive upset...and ask anyone now and they'll say they should have been favorites.

That is why I love this 538 stuff...it just confirms most of what unbiased fans already know.

We knew that Hakeem didn't have much help. Knew that the 11 Mavs were worse than the average finals team. Knew that the 07 Cavs were kind of a joke.

We knew the 09 and 10 Lakers were pretty stacked around Kobe...etc.

BlazerRed
06-04-2015, 10:03 AM
You can convince yourself into whatever. But we both know that when the Cavs win, the meltdown here is going to be epic. GS is getting compared to all-time great teams and are favored by at least 80% of the analysts. LeBron haters like yourself will have absolutely nothing to spin it when he wins a title with Knicks role players and a crippled PG.
So you dodge my questions because you know I'm right? Keep spewin' shit doofus :oldlol:

BTW I'm not a Lebron hater. I don't particularly love the guy, but I'd be super impressed if he won with the current team.

SilkkTheShocker
06-04-2015, 10:04 AM
Remember when Lebron's teams were usually favored in his first stint in Cleveland? The 09 Magic and 2010 Celtics were considerable underdogs.

Lots of revisionist history about the 09 and 10 Cavs. They were expected to win.

Would you say those Cleveland teams were comparable in talent to the GS Warriors?

Clifton
06-04-2015, 10:13 AM
I am a little bit nervous about Warriors. This is the first year they have been "that good," first year they have made the Finals and they are young. They are a jumpshooting team with no post scoring. This usually results in failure against more established teams with bigger stars.

I think of the 00 Trailblazers. The 02 Kings. The 12 Thunder.

Then again, the 04 Pistons pummeled the Lakers; and the Warriors have a good defense.

But I watched a 30 minute highlight vid of the Game 7 Lakers and Kings from 02 yesterday. Sacramento was a way deeper and better team. You had Mike Bibby, fearless. You had Webber playing decent. But then Divac fouls out; Christie and Peja get shook; coach leaves Bobby Jackson on the bench way too long; some free throws get missed. And through it all is this veteran group with 2 superstars that believes in itself, and they pull it out.

Who knows? Lebron is a champion, he's done this before, Warriors start going cold... Steph Curry will always play like a champion, but will Klay Thompson want the ball in the clutch in game 7? Or will he be like Christie, and hide behind his defensive duties? What happens when Draymond Green fouls out? What will happen to Harrison Barnes when a defense really zeroes in and asks: Can he actually beat us, or is he just hitting open jumpers and backdoor dunks on a stacked team?

We don't know.

I'd be pretty surprised to see the Cavs take this, though. They just don't seem to have the personnel right now. And the Warriors have two more bruisers than than the Kings did.

jimmy77x
06-04-2015, 10:19 AM
You can convince yourself into whatever. But we both know that when the Cavs win, the meltdown here is going to be epic. GS is getting compared to all-time great teams and are favored by at least 80% of the analysts. LeBron haters like yourself will have absolutely nothing to spin it when he wins a title with Knicks role players and a crippled PG.

IF the cavs win or lose you will still be a loser POS with no life, no job, no girl, nothing :lol Your only hope of happiness is seeing a man that doesn't know a sh!t stain like yourself exist, win a title :roll: :roll: sad pathetic loser..now waiting for your deflecting response :oldlol:

dunksby
06-04-2015, 10:21 AM
People will spin it that Cleveland was always the favorite when they win.
Even you don't believe Cavs are the underdogs here.

SilkkTheShocker
06-04-2015, 10:27 AM
That is what people do.

The Mavs win in 11...despite clearly being underdogs and it taking a pretty massive upset...and ask anyone now and they'll say they should have been favorites.

That is why I love this 538 stuff...it just confirms most of what unbiased fans already know.

We knew that Hakeem didn't have much help. Knew that the 11 Mavs were worse than the average finals team. Knew that the 07 Cavs were kind of a joke.

We knew the 09 and 10 Lakers were pretty stacked around Kobe...etc.

Agreed. Even as a Bron fan, I thought the 2011 Mavs were one of the lesser stacked teams in the Finals. And I think the same about this Cleveland team. With Irving hurt, it's LeBron and a bunch of role players. Those guys are playing well, but lets be real. Unless Irving plays close to 75% and Cleveland wins it, they will be one of the least stacked Champions in Finals history. We can't change history and act like JR Smith and Shumpert were considered potential title pieces. Cleveland was forced to take Smith's contract in order to get Shumpert. And when Cleveland traded for Mozgov, people said it was a desperation/overpay. Even though it was for two craptacular first round picks that will in low-20s. And no one outside of Cavalier/LeBron/Aussie fans even knew who the hell Dellevedova was. And they would all tell you he was nothing short of dumpster fire in the regular season. And Thompson until this season was regarded as disappointment, and even a bust by some. People (stupid ones) were calling him a career 4th big. And right now he is the 2nd most important player on the team and is about to get close to max money.

SilkkTheShocker
06-04-2015, 10:33 AM
Even you don't believe Cavs are the underdogs here.

I don't believe they are at all. Nor do I believe GS is an all-time team. Would you bet on them to beat the 08 celtics, 13 or 14 Spurs, 04 Pistons, 01 Lakers, 96 Bulls, etc? But who is paying me for my opinion? I am merely a poster on ISH. I personally feel GS is going to get punched in the mouth this series. Where are GS's slashers? Where is there post offense going to come from? Who is going to put Cleveland's bigs in trouble? Can anyone keep Thompson off the glass? This isn't a good matchup on paper at all for the Warriors. That doesn't change the fact that when Cleveland does win, I will be bumping every analysts prediction and all the articles proclaiming to be an all-time great team.

Da_Realist
06-04-2015, 10:41 AM
I am a little bit nervous about Warriors. This is the first year they have been "that good," first year they have made the Finals and they are young. They are a jumpshooting team with no post scoring. This usually results in failure against more established teams with bigger stars.

I think of the 00 Trailblazers. The 02 Kings. The 12 Thunder.

Then again, the 04 Pistons pummeled the Lakers; and the Warriors have a good defense.

But I watched a 30 minute highlight vid of the Game 7 Lakers and Kings from 02 yesterday. Sacramento was a way deeper and better team. You had Mike Bibby, fearless. You had Webber playing decent. But then Divac fouls out; Christie and Peja get shook; coach leaves Bobby Jackson on the bench way too long; some free throws get missed. And through it all is this veteran group with 2 superstars that believes in itself, and they pull it out.

Who knows? Lebron is a champion, he's done this before, Warriors start going cold... Steph Curry will always play like a champion, but will Klay Thompson want the ball in the clutch in game 7? Or will he be like Christie, and hide behind his defensive duties? What happens when Draymond Green fouls out? What will happen to Harrison Barnes when a defense really zeroes in and asks: Can he actually beat us, or is he just hitting open jumpers and backdoor dunks on a stacked team?

We don't know.

I'd be pretty surprised to see the Cavs take this, though. They just don't seem to have the personnel right now. And the Warriors have two more bruisers than than the Kings did.

Good post. Very insightful. Winning the title takes more than talent. Experience matters a lot. Having the best player in the league matters too, especially when GS has no one that can guard him. I haven't been impressed with Klay Thompson during this year's playoffs. I think Cleveland can slow GS down enough with defense and rebounding (especially offensive) to make this a close series.

I'm hesitant to go against the best player in the league with 5 straight finals experience under his belt versus a few young jumpshooters that have never really faced adversity or the spotlight of playing before the whole world in prime time. I wouldn't be surprised at all if Cleveland won this series. I can't believe so many people are picking against them.

oh the horror
06-04-2015, 10:41 AM
I am a little bit nervous about Warriors. This is the first year they have been "that good," first year they have made the Finals and they are young. They are a jumpshooting team with no post scoring. This usually results in failure against more established teams with bigger stars.

I think of the 00 Trailblazers. The 02 Kings. The 12 Thunder.

Then again, the 04 Pistons pummeled the Lakers; and the Warriors have a good defense.

But I watched a 30 minute highlight vid of the Game 7 Lakers and Kings from 02 yesterday. Sacramento was a way deeper and better team. You had Mike Bibby, fearless. You had Webber playing decent. But then Divac fouls out; Christie and Peja get shook; coach leaves Bobby Jackson on the bench way too long; some free throws get missed. And through it all is this veteran group with 2 superstars that believes in itself, and they pull it out.

Who knows? Lebron is a champion, he's done this before, Warriors start going cold... Steph Curry will always play like a champion, but will Klay Thompson want the ball in the clutch in game 7? Or will he be like Christie, and hide behind his defensive duties? What happens when Draymond Green fouls out? What will happen to Harrison Barnes when a defense really zeroes in and asks: Can he actually beat us, or is he just hitting open jumpers and backdoor dunks on a stacked team?

We don't know.

I'd be pretty surprised to see the Cavs take this, though. They just don't seem to have the personnel right now. And the Warriors have two more bruisers than than the Kings did.





This. Don't let the media hype you all out. The gap between these two teams isn't THAT insanely huge.


I wouldn't be shocked if the Cavs squeeze this out at all. I've always said veterans know how to get it done when it matters. And the Cavs have vets that have been there before.


This is dependent on how hungry this warriors team really is. I don't trust first timers in the finals though.

Ne 1
06-04-2015, 10:43 AM
this is smart, thanks bro.. so riddle me this, why did they lose? 2009, 2010 (we know why in 2011).
Well for one James' had weaknesses in his game that the Celtics and Mavs exposed big time. At times he looked like a scrub out there, like completely lost. He had flaws in his game that needed to be addressed, and that's what he did. Hakeem helped him a lot with his post up, he got better moving without the ball, improved his defense (which the Magic exposed in '09) etc.

Before 2012 you could see he had a very limited offensive game. It was either transition dunk, or jacking a three off the dribble. In 2012, he improved footwork, post game, his aggressive mentality and added a pinch post reliable post game and he finally started to develop a consistent mid range-ish scoring game. And BAM ... wins his first ring.

ArbitraryWater
06-04-2015, 10:55 AM
I must have not realized the Cavs main rotation was full of experienced vets.. cause I'm not seing it.. Lebronnnnnn andddddd?

lol

http://blclife.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/reach-for-your-goal.jpg

DMAVS41
06-04-2015, 11:03 AM
Agreed. Even as a Bron fan, I thought the 2011 Mavs were one of the lesser stacked teams in the Finals. And I think the same about this Cleveland team. With Irving hurt, it's LeBron and a bunch of role players. Those guys are playing well, but lets be real. Unless Irving plays close to 75% and Cleveland wins it, they will be one of the least stacked Champions in Finals history. We can't change history and act like JR Smith and Shumpert were considered potential title pieces. Cleveland was forced to take Smith's contract in order to get Shumpert. And when Cleveland traded for Mozgov, people said it was a desperation/overpay. Even though it was for two craptacular first round picks that will in low-20s. And no one outside of Cavalier/LeBron/Aussie fans even knew who the hell Dellevedova was. And they would all tell you he was nothing short of dumpster fire in the regular season. And Thompson until this season was regarded as disappointment, and even a bust by some. People (stupid ones) were calling him a career 4th big. And right now he is the 2nd most important player on the team and is about to get close to max money.


Right. With a hobbled Kyrie and no Love...this Cavs team should not be good.

Now...I won't pretend like I know everything, but I'm not sure they are. I really do think them blowing through the East like that had far more to do with the East just being terrible than it was the Cavs being good.

Lebron is great of course...and I really like Blatt...and the Cavs do have some nice pieces around Lebron, but a 12-2 record to the finals with Lebron in the worst shooting slump of his prime and no Love/Kyrie essentially? Just think that says more about the shitty competition.

We are about to find out though...which is the great thing about sports for the most part.

All the questions are about to be answered...if the Cavs pull this off with Kyrie nowhere near 100%...I'll be shocked and gladly admit I've been just dead wrong about this Cavs team.

First questions answered tonight...exciting

catch24
06-04-2015, 11:03 AM
Well for one James' had weaknesses in his game that the Celtics and Mavs exposed big time. At times he looked like a scrub out there, like completely lost. He had flaws in his game that needed to be addressed, and that's what he did. Hakeem helped him a lot with his post up, he got better moving without the ball, improved his defense (which the Magic exposed in '09) etc.

Before 2012 you could see he had a very limited offensive game. It was either transition dunk, or jacking a three off the dribble. In 2012, he improved footwork, post game, his aggressive mentality and added a pinch post reliable post game and he finally started to develop a consistent mid range-ish scoring game. And BAM ... wins his first ring.
Yeah, I thought it was common knowledge the Cavs lost in 2010 because LeBron quit midway, seeking greener pastures in Miami. That's where the collusion stuff really snowballed.

I don't blame LeBron in 2009, but I don't think monopolizing the ball every possession helped his team either. The 09 and 10 Cavs should've made the finals both years IMO.

SilkkTheShocker
06-04-2015, 11:09 AM
Good post. Very insightful. Winning the title takes more than talent. Experience matters a lot. Having the best player in the league matters too, especially when GS has no one that can guard him. I haven't been impressed with Klay Thompson during this year's playoffs. I think Cleveland can slow GS down enough with defense and rebounding (especially offensive) to make this a close series.

I'm hesitant to go against the best player in the league with 5 straight finals experience under his belt versus a few young jumpshooters that have never really faced adversity or the spotlight of playing before the whole world in prime time. I wouldn't be surprised at all if Cleveland won this series. I can't believe so many people are picking against them.

This. I get picking GS to win. But the ones picking GS in 4 or 5 are on crack. GS ain't that good. They lost two f.ucking games to a beat up Memphis team for Christ's sake. If they are going win, it's going to take them 6-7 games.

DMAVS41
06-04-2015, 11:18 AM
Yeah, I thought it was common knowledge the Cavs lost in 2010 because LeBron quit midway, seeking greener pastures in Miami. That's where the collusion stuff really snowballed.

I don't blame LeBron in 2009, but I don't think monopolizing the ball every possession helped his team either. The 09 and 10 Cavs should've made the finals both years IMO.

There is no way one should use the "should have made the finals" line in relation to Lebron in 09.

If the standard for him is that high...then might as well just admit he's a top 5 player of all time.

They had a chance to make the finals in 09, but when your best player is that good...and you lose...99% of the problem is coaching and help.

In 10...they no doubt could have, but they were clearly a worse team than the 10 Celtics when it came to winning in the playoffs. Nobody wants to talk about how the Jamison addition screwed them up. That team needed to play quality defense to win...and with Jamison on the floor...that was impossible.

I don't know if Lebron quit or ran out of gas or actually was bothered by his elbow, but none of that changes the fact that the 10 Cavs weren't very good outside of Lebron. In order of minutes per game in the playoffs:

Mo
Jamison
Parker
West
Andy
Shaq
Moon

Nobody else played a role of note. You can honestly look at that squad and say they "should have made the finals"?????

I don't buy it.

gts
06-04-2015, 11:20 AM
I totally agree. I'm not buying the "Warriors are overwhelming favorites" premise. They may be more talented 1-12 but Cleveland has the bigger team (and will probably outrebound GS), the better defense and Lebron James (who GS can't defend). I can't write Cleveland off.

Rebounding will be a problem. GS will need to knock down a ton of jumpshots.


Which they do... If Warriors shots are dropping it could be a short series


Cavs will have to chase Warriors off the arc and they've been pretty good at it so far but the warriors aren't like anyone the Cavs have faced so far... Cavs will have to put their track shoes on because the Warriors are constantly moving

catch24
06-04-2015, 11:27 AM
There is no way one should use the "should have made the finals" line in relation to Lebron in 09.

If the standard for him is that high...then might as well just admit he's a top 5 player of all time.

They had a chance to make the finals in 09, but when your best player is that good...and you lose...99% of the problem is coaching and help.

In 10...they no doubt could have, but they were clearly a worse team than the 10 Celtics when it came to winning in the playoffs. Nobody wants to talk about how the Jamison addition screwed them up. That team needed to play quality defense to win...and with Jamison on the floor...that was impossible.

I don't know if Lebron quit or ran out of gas or actually was bothered by his elbow, but none of that changes the fact that the 10 Cavs weren't very good outside of Lebron. In order of minutes per game in the playoffs:

Mo
Jamison
Parker
West
Andy
Shaq
Moon

Nobody else played a role of note. You can honestly look at that squad and say they "should have made the finals"?????

I don't buy it.

Meh.. It's the east, relax.

There was a reason Vegas and most of the major media outlets (ESPN in particular) had them as favorites against Orlando in 09 and Boston in 2010.

Those names on paper don't look great, but they played well enough to get where they were at. As I said, don't really blame LeBron in 2009, but in 2010 he quit with a chance to put a strangle-hold on the Celtics.

Everyone saw it. Everyone knew what was going on.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/100514
http://www.nba.com/2010/news/07/09/cavs.owner/index.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4d-Mnfz6iB0

Ne 1
06-04-2015, 11:38 AM
Yeah, I thought it was common knowledge the Cavs lost in 2010 because LeBron quit midway, seeking greener pastures in Miami. That's where the collusion stuff really snowballed.

I don't blame LeBron in 2009, but I don't think monopolizing the ball every possession helped his team either. The 09 and 10 Cavs should've made the finals both years IMO.
Yeah, I don't blame him as much for '09, a big reason they lost that series was was because Dwight was a mismatch against their front court which is why the Cavs brought in Shaq to neutralize Dwight, anticipating facing the Magic again in the playoffs. However I don't feel like LeBron's series was as astonishing as some people make it out to be. His averages look good on paper, but he dominated the ball to an extent not seen since prime Iverson. His defense also was pretty poor in that series and pratically exposed. I remember people saying he was a DPOY candidate that season and in that series it was clear he wasn't close to that level. He also wasn't that good in some of the 4th quarters like missing 5 free throws in Game 3 and he had a bunch of turnovers in Game 4 late in the game. Game 6 was also pretty weak with only 2 points in the 4th quarter. Mo, West, Z, Varejao actually all played well in the elimination Game 6 (not the entire series, but they were on in Game 6), but LeBron pretty much gave up at halftime.

DMAVS41
06-04-2015, 11:47 AM
Meh.. It's the east, relax.

There was a reason Vegas and most of the major media outlets (ESPN in particular) had them as favorites against Orlando in 09 and Boston in 2010.

Those names on paper don't look great, but they played well enough to get where they were at. As I said, don't really blame LeBron in 2009, but in 2010 he quit with a chance to put a strangle-hold on the Celtics.

Everyone saw it. Everyone knew what was going on.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/100514
http://www.nba.com/2010/news/07/09/cavs.owner/index.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4d-Mnfz6iB0

Well, the 2010 East had a team in the Celtics as good as anyone in the West. And the reason people picked them was because of an infatuation with regular season success.

We saw what? We saw Lebron randomly play a terrible game in which he said he had an elbow injury. I don't know what happened and neither do you.

But you are just sidestepping the point by claiming he "quit"...like I said...I don't care about that. Maybe he did...maybe he didn't.

That doesn't change the fact that the 10 Cavs were not a great team and it was going to take a great team to beat them.

Just look at the Lakers. They had infinitely better coaching and Kobe had a clear cut better supporting cast and it was a better matchup for the Lakers than it was for the Cavs.

All of that and it still was a toss up series even with the Perkins injury...and took to the closing minutes of game 7 to win.

All the evidence points to needing the kind of team/coaching the 10 Lakers had to beat the Celtics. The Cavs just did not have that...

Hammer Lebron all you want for playing like ass at the end of that series and quitting or whatever. I think that is totally fair....just don't think it's fair to pretend that team was something it wasn't.

catch24
06-04-2015, 11:57 AM
But you are just sidestepping the point by claiming he "quit"...like I said...I don't care about that. Maybe he did...maybe he didn't.

That doesn't change the fact that the 10 Cavs were not a great team and it was going to take a great team to beat them.

And that's the point. Had LeBron played anywhere near his usual self - which was MVP caliber - they beat the Celtics.

Doctors gave him multiple MRI's and said nothing was wrong with his elbow BTW. Guy didn't have an "injury" - he just laid down (see: 2007 and 2011).

It's okay to admit his teams were favored both years, and in both years, they collapsed under LeBron's leadership.

:confusedshrug:

DMAVS41
06-04-2015, 12:03 PM
And that's the point. Had LeBron played anywhere near his usual self - which was MVP caliber - they beat the Celtics.

Doctors gave him multiple MRI's and said nothing was wrong with his elbow BTW. He didn't have an "injury" - he collapsed like he did in 2007 and 2011.

It's okay to admit his teams were favored both years, and in both years, they collapsed under LeBron's leadership.

:confusedshrug:

Collapsed under his leadership? You just tipped your hand as too emotional and biased here.

Really? You go from not blaming Lebron in 09 to..."they collapsed because Lebron is a poor leader"...LOL

Do you think that maybe the players and coach on those teams outside of Lebron just weren't as good as you think?

I mean...why are we expecting Mo Williams and Jamsion to do things they just can't do as players? Or Mike Brown to out coach or at least even out the likes of Doc or SVG?

Just seems obvious that the answer is simply:

1. In 09 Lebron played truly great and he just didn't have enough quality help to get by a hot Magic team that saw Howard rape the Cavs front line.

2. In 10 Lebron played a poor final 3 games in that series, but also didn't have the kind of team/coaching almost always necessary to beat a team like the 10 Celtics.


But whatever...."collapsed because Lebron was a poor leader"....:facepalm

catch24
06-04-2015, 12:12 PM
Uhhh, I think you need to learn the difference between "because" and "under". FYI they're not the same thing. :oldlol:

Once you've distinguished the difference between both words, maybe you can now admit that under LeBron's leadership, the favored Cavs lost in 2009 and 2010?

:confusedshrug:

Straight_Ballin
06-04-2015, 12:17 PM
If Cleveland loses maybe OP will take this silk account and the other 5 accounts that he has which he uses to talk to himself and finally stop talking about Lebron James altogether.

DMAVS41
06-04-2015, 12:18 PM
Uhhh, I think you need to learn the difference between "because" and "under". FYI they're not the same thing. :oldlol:

Once you've distinguished the difference between both words, maybe you can now admit that under LeBron's leadership, the favored Cavs lost in 2009 and 2010?

That is just semantic bullshit.

That implies that it was on Lebron...which you just got done saying you didn't think was true in 09.

It's the kind of non argument that people resort to when they are losing a debate. See it all the time here and in life in general.

They also didn't collapse in 09. They lost.

The word "collapse" is applicable to 10 in my opinion though.

I just think a honest look at the 10 Cavs and the 10 Celtics makes it pretty obvious which team was better. I just don't think Jamison/Mo and their terrible defensive ways are going to be able to play such large roles on a team beating the 10 Celtics.

Like I said. Hammering Lebron for his play those final 3 games is fair. What is not fair is pretending that a Cavs team that really only went 7 deep in that series with Mo, Jamison, and Parker all playing over 33 minutes a game is worthy of being deemed a team "that should have beat the 10 Celtics"...

Clifton
06-04-2015, 12:22 PM
This. Don't let the media hype you all out. The gap between these two teams isn't THAT insanely huge.
Well, based on the images posted on the first page, the media doesn't seem to think it's that large a gap, either.

Most commentators pick the Warriors, but not all; and most see it going 6 or 7.

Really, the Warriors should sweep them. I do believe this could be one of the great teams of history. They don't have a great flaw, like Portland and Sacramento did. They seem to have the chemistry, the defense, the toughness, and the heroism needed to truly control a 7 game series against anyone. I just think they might falter in this their first Finals trip.

Edit: Oh, another thing they have, that Cleveland does not, that Portland did not, that OKC did not, and that IMO Sacramento did not have as much as is commonly thought: *great coaching*. Kerr's not a good coach, he's a great coach. He has this extra level of coaching that you only see in guys like Carlisle, plus his players trust him in a way we haven't seen since Phil Jackson. If the Warriors don't falter, that will be why.

catch24
06-04-2015, 12:24 PM
No point in talking about the same thing. Don't really care about LeBron's short commings either way, so I'll just leave this thread with my original post.


Yeah, I thought it was common knowledge the Cavs lost in 2010 because LeBron quit midway, seeking greener pastures in Miami. That's where the collusion stuff really snowballed.

I don't blame LeBron in 2009, but I don't think monopolizing the ball every possession helped his team either. The 09 and 10 Cavs should've made the finals both years IMO.

^But really I'm not claiming anything that isn't accepted by most.

kamil
06-04-2015, 12:29 PM
I don't believe they are at all. Nor do I believe GS is an all-time team. Would you bet on them to beat the 08 celtics, 13 or 14 Spurs, 04 Pistons, 01 Lakers, 96 Bulls, etc? But who is paying me for my opinion? I am merely a poster on ISH. I personally feel GS is going to get punched in the mouth this series. Where are GS's slashers? Where is there post offense going to come from? Who is going to put Cleveland's bigs in trouble? Can anyone keep Thompson off the glass? This isn't a good matchup on paper at all for the Warriors. That doesn't change the fact that when Cleveland does win, I will be bumping every analysts prediction and all the articles proclaiming to be an all-time great team.

Your bias towards LeBron* is pathetic.

DMAVS41
06-04-2015, 12:31 PM
No point in talking about the same thing. Don't really care about LeBron's short commings either way, so I'll just leave this thread with my original post.



^But really I'm not claiming anything that isn't accepted by most.

You are claiming that they "should have made the finals"...and I disagree with that.

I don't care if it's accepted by most...it's not accurate. It wasn't accepted by me as I picked against the Cavs in 10 against the Celtics on here.

I'm asking you to actually evaluate a team of:

Lebron
Mo
Jamison
Parker
Shaq
Andy
West

And tell me why they should have beaten the 10 Celtics. The same 10 Celtics that came within a couple shots in a game 7 from beating the Lakers without homecourt...while losing a starter for game 7.

Not only was it a bad matchup because of the Jamison vs KG outclassing, but the Cavs had no ability to do anything with Rondo because Mo is a clown defensively and basically had no depth at guard to deal with Rondo and Ray Allen.

So what are you basing this on?

Also, I'm pretty sure I remember you saying the 08 Celtics were better than the 08 Lakers and that the Celtics should have won.

I don't see how you can have that opinion and hold these opinions about the 09/10 Cavs teams.

Ne 1
06-04-2015, 12:40 PM
Spin it how you want but LeBron was visibly pouting or quit after Game 3 in 2010 vs Boston. The Cavs were up 2-1 and if LeBron played even close to his usual leavel, Cleveland in all likelihood wins the series. The Celtics do deserve some credit, but James' just seemed off and he played like garbage in the last 3 games. He just didn't seem like himself at all. I don't know if he was looking towards the summer joining Miami or if the Delonte West rumor was true but he really looked distracted.

sd3035
06-04-2015, 12:45 PM
most stacked team ever getting owned by Jason Terry

http://oi60.tinypic.com/2cwla2d.jpg

DMAVS41
06-04-2015, 12:48 PM
Spin it how you want but LeBron was visibly pouting or quit after Game 3 in 2010 vs Boston. The Cavs were up 2-1 and if LeBron played even close to his usual leavel, Cleveland in all likelihood wins the series. The Celtics do deserve some credit, but James' just seemed off and he played like garbage in the last 3 games. He just didn't seem like himself at all. I don't know if he was looking towards the summer joining Miami or if the Delonte West rumor was true but he really looked distracted.

If this is directed at me...I'd ask you to read my post.

Where I clearly said it's fair to hammer Lebron for his play the last 3 games of that series.

riseagainst
06-04-2015, 12:48 PM
most stacked team ever getting owned by Jason Terry

http://oi60.tinypic.com/2cwla2d.jpg

:eek:

:roll:

24-Inch_Chrome
06-04-2015, 12:49 PM
most stacked team ever getting owned by Jason Terry

http://oi60.tinypic.com/2cwla2d.jpg

So PER is the only stat that matters for evaluating players? Damn, LeBron just moved up to #2 all-time. :bowdown:

riseagainst
06-04-2015, 12:56 PM
So PER is the only stat that matters for evaluating players? Damn, LeBron just moved up to #2 all-time. :bowdown:

even if you look at EW and VA, Wade and Lebron are both top 3 and Bosh at top 8.
:lol

HOoopCityJones
06-04-2015, 12:57 PM
Spin it how you want but LeBron was visibly pouting or quit after Game 3 in 2010 vs Boston. The Cavs were up 2-1 and if LeBron played even close to his usual leavel, Cleveland in all likelihood wins the series. The Celtics do deserve some credit, but James' just seemed off and he played like garbage in the last 3 games. He just didn't seem like himself at all. I don't know if he was looking towards the summer joining Miami or if the Delonte West rumor was true but he really looked distracted.

DMAVS is just a contrarian, leave him be on his wild witch hunts where he's the most objective person on earth and everyone else is bias.

SilkkTheShocker
06-04-2015, 12:59 PM
DMAVS is just a contrarian, leave him be on his wild witch hunts where he's the most objective person on earth and everyone else is bias.

Does your mother know you have her picture in your avatar?

DMAVS41
06-04-2015, 01:07 PM
DMAVS is just a contrarian, leave him be on his wild witch hunts where he's the most objective person on earth and everyone else is bias.

Yes...it's just so crazy to think the 10 Celtics were better than the 10 Cavs.

I'm insane to think Mo/Jamison would have no prayer to slow down and compete with Rondo/Allen/KG.

That Mike Brown would get outclassed by Doc Rivers.

It's contrarian to think that? If so...people are even dumber here than usual.

kuniva_dAMiGhTy
06-04-2015, 01:09 PM
Yes...it's just so crazy to think the 10 Celtics were better than the 10 Cavs.

I'm insane to think Mo/Jamison would have no prayer to slow down and compete with Rondo/Allen/KG.

That Mike Brown would get outclassed by Doc Rivers.

It's contrarian to think that? If so...people are even dumber here than usual.
Well its not crazy to think the Cavs should have won in '10 either. In fact, most thought they should have. LeBron, to catch's point, played below his standards. Clearly.

2009 is the one year between both seasons you could legitimately excuse him for.

DMAVS41
06-04-2015, 01:13 PM
Well its not crazy to think the Cavs should have won in '10 either. In fact, most thought they should have. LeBron, to catch's point, played below his standards. Clearly.

2009 is the one year between both seasons you could legitimately excuse him for.

I do think there is far less reason to think the Cavs "should have won" than they "should have lost" though.

Again, it was a terrible matchup for that Cavs team as they had no answer for KG or Rondo.

It's similar to saying the 08 Lakers should have beat the 08 Celtics. In fact, I'd argue that the 08 Lakers had a better chance. And I know he doesn't feel that way.

And that is the double standard here. 9 of the 10 experts on ESPN picked the 08 Lakers to beat the Celtics. Does that mean the Lakers should have won? According to this logic, perhaps yours (not sure), the answer must be yes. And if that's the case...then it seems like that statement has no meaning.

Either Lebron is being held to absurd standards...or the 10 Celtics are being dramatically under-rated here.

kuniva_dAMiGhTy
06-04-2015, 01:21 PM
I do think there is far less reason to think the Cavs "should have won" than they "should have lost" though.

Again, it was a terrible matchup for that Cavs team as they had no answer for KG or Rondo.

It's similar to saying the 08 Lakers should have beat the 08 Celtics. In fact, I'd argue that the 08 Lakers had a better chance. And I know he doesn't feel that way.

I don't see the correlation between the two. Bynum and Ariza were both hurt in 2008 (DNP). Not only that, but unlike the Lakers, Cleveland had HCA in that series. And yeah, LeBron's game 5 or "Lelbow" was shocking to everyone; lowkey one of the worst performances and efforts from a superstar ever. That stuff matters. A lot.

Dunno, I feel like you're excusing LeBron for his terrible play by bringing up his supporting cast. When you play the way Bron does in Games 4 and 5, his "help" shouldn't even be mentioned, tbh.

DMAVS41
06-04-2015, 01:26 PM
I don't see the correlation between the two. Bynum and Ariza were both hurt in 2008 (DNP). Not only that, but unlike the Lakers, Cleveland had HCA in that series. And yeah, LeBron's game 5 or "Lelbow" was shocking to everyone; lowkey one of the worst performances and efforts from a superstar ever. That stuff matters. A lot.

Dunno, I feel like you're excusing LeBron for his terrible play by bringing up his supporting cast. When you play the way he does in Games 4 and 5, his "help" shouldn't even be brought up, tbh.

Of course they are comparable.

9 of 10 experts picked the Lakers to beat the Celtics on ESPN. They were favored in Vegas.

Kobe averaged 26/5/5 50% TS with a 98 ortg and a 111 drtg...

Lebron averaged 27/9/7 56% TS with a 106 ortg and a 105 drtg...


To act like one guy deserves the blame and the other guy gets a pass speaks to the double standard I'm referencing.

How about when Kobe gave up the biggest finals comeback ever or something along those lines in the swing game of the series? Let me guess...it wasn't his fault? That game wasn't "shocking"...when Kobe went 6 of 19 and sat there watching his team crumble and basically lose a chance at the title? That wasn't "shocking"???

Do you really not see the double standard?

Like I said before...Lebron does deserve blame for his play in games 4 and 5 in that series, but it doesn't change the fact that the 10 Celtics were better.

But...just no...you can't have it both ways. The 08 Lakers were favored and Kobe was at least as bad as 10 Lebron...probably worse all things considered.

Solefade
06-04-2015, 01:30 PM
I don't see the correlation between the two. Bynum and Ariza were both hurt in 2008 (DNP). Not only that, but unlike the Lakers, Cleveland had HCA in that series. And yeah, LeBron's game 5 or "Lelbow" was shocking to everyone; lowkey one of the worst performances and efforts from a superstar ever. That stuff matters. A lot.

Dunno, I feel like you're excusing LeBron for his terrible play by bringing up his supporting cast. When you play the way Bron does in Games 4 and 5, his "help" shouldn't even be mentioned, tbh.

it's funny how laker fans laugh when you mention bynum/ariza were key pieces in their 2009/2010 chips but use them as an excuse in 2008 :oldlol:

KembaWalker
06-04-2015, 01:31 PM
https://vine.co/v/ehYxnYOgL3D

DMAVS41
06-04-2015, 01:32 PM
it's funny how laker fans laugh when you mention bynum/ariza were key pieces in their 2009/2010 chips but use them as an excuse in 2008 :oldlol:

it's not even a valid point to begin with.

bynum and ariza didn't even play in the Spurs series in the WCV essentially.

no difference in me saying that the Cavs didn't have Big Z...who was hurt for the Celtics series.

You'll find they create absurd double standards constantly.

Legends66NBA7
06-04-2015, 01:33 PM
it's funny how laker fans laugh when you mention bynum/ariza were key pieces in their 2009/2010 chips but use them as an excuse in 2008 :oldlol:

You're confusing Laker fans with Kobe stans. No Laker fan I've come across doesn't think they were much needed for their title runs (Ariza was only there for 09). Off course they could made a difference in 08, but we'll never know.

kuniva_dAMiGhTy
06-04-2015, 01:34 PM
They were favored in Vegas.

Link?


Kobe averaged 26/5/5 50% TS with a 98 ortg and a 111 drtg...

Lebron averaged 27/9/7 56% TS with a 106 ortg and a 105 drtg...


To act like one guy deserves the blame and the other guy gets a pass speaks to the double standard I'm referencing.

This is where stats are misleading though. Their numbers look similar. No doubt; but Kobe did not have anywhere near the performances LeBron did in Games 4 and 5. And by "performances", I mean playing absolutely horrific.

That is the disconnect I have, along with the HCA and the Lakers missing 2/5 of their starters.

Not the same thing. Not seeing it.


Lebron does deserve blame for his play in games 4 and 5 in that series, but it doesn't change the fact that the 10 Celtics were better.

Had LeBron played up to his potential in games 4 and 5, there's a strong posisiblity that Cleveland beats them and makes the finals, which they were predicted to do.

Not sure why you're separating the two, when it's actually a cause and effect.


it's funny how laker fans laugh when you mention bynum/ariza were key pieces in their 2009/2010 chips but use them as an excuse in 2008 :oldlol:

Those Kobe fans are in denial. Ariza was better than Artest was in '10, imo ...

DMAVS41
06-04-2015, 01:37 PM
Link?



This is where stats are misleading though. Their numbers look similar. No doubt; but Kobe did not have anywhere near the performances LeBron did in Games 4 and 5. And by "performances", I mean playing absolutely horrific.

That is the disconnect I have, along with the HCA and the Lakers missing 2/5 of their starters.

Not the same thing. Not seeing it.



Had LeBron played up to his potential in games 4 and 5, there's a strong posisiblity that Cleveland beats them and makes the finals, which they were predicted to do.

Not sure how why you are separating the two, when it's actually a cause and effect.



Kobe/Laker fans are in denial. Ariza was better than Artest was in '10, imo ...


Odds:

http://sportsgambling.about.com/od/basketball/a/08nbafinals.htm


ESPN Picks:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs2008/series?series=lalbos


Tell me about Kobe's game 4 in which he wet the bed with 6 of 19 shooting and made no real impact on the game. His team, at home, gave up the biggest lead in finals history at the time.

I could say the exact same thing.

It's cause and effect. Kobe played poorly in the finals and that is why his team lost. He went ghost in the swing game and the series should have been tied 2-2. Hell, he was beyond bad in game 1...he shot ****ing 9/26 and didn't give much effort on the glass (only 3 boards) and his team still had chances to win the game.

In a 6 game series....Kobe had games of:

9/26
6/19
8/21
7/22

For a player that sees his value so tied to scoring unlike Lebron...that is really really really bad. And to use your words..."when you play that horrific...help shouldn't be brought up"

Also, Ariza wasn't a starter for the 08 Lakers. What are you talking about?

You will lose this argument...take the L

It's the definition of a double standard.

kuniva_dAMiGhTy
06-04-2015, 01:42 PM
Odds:

http://sportsgambling.about.com/od/basketball/a/08nbafinals.htm


ESPN Picks:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs2008/series?series=lalbos


Tell me about Kobe's game 4 in which he wet the bed with 6 of 19 shooting and made no real impact on the game. His team, at home, gave up the biggest lead in finals history at the time.

But, I also blame Kobe for that? :confusedshrug: Do I place the same blame I do for LeBron who by all intents and purposes quit? Nah.

LeBron's energy and demeaner were absent. Calling him Casper the friendly ghost is an understatement. :oldlol:

Like I said, that shit matters. Maybe not to you, but to anyone that's ever played a sport in their life, it does.


I could say the exact same thing.

Of course you can, but you wouldn't make sense in doing so. Not all performances/stats are equal. You are thinking inside the box; get out of it.

gts
06-04-2015, 01:46 PM
it's funny how laker fans laugh when you mention bynum/ariza were key pieces in their 2009/2010 chips but use them as an excuse in 2008 :oldlol: dumb comment, first off no Laker fan bangs on Ariza for his 2009 playoffs run.. he put up better numbers in the playoffs than he did in the reg season so you're just making up shit there to be an asshole.. Ariza was great for the Lakers that year

in 2008 they were injured, Ariza tried to soldier through but missed 3/4s of the playoff games and Bynum who had been a solid contributor up until his injury but both were non factors in the finals run

in 2009 Bynum gets downplayed by knowledgeable Laker fans because once again he was injured and despite playing in every game was basically a non factor.. Laker fans downplay his contributions because idiots try and make his contributions greater than what they were

Bynum reg season 15 ppg 8 rebounds 2 blks and 30 minutes of play
Bynum playoffs 6ppg 4 rrebounds and -1 blk in 18 minutes of play

Idiots "Bynum is why they won the 2009 championship" That's why Laker fans laugh

in 2010 your ignorance shows through again because Bynum was once again injured and Ariza was no longer a Laker

DMAVS41
06-04-2015, 01:47 PM
But, I also blame Kobe for that? :confusedshrug: Do I place the same blame I do for LeBron who by all intents and purposes quit? Nah.

LeBron's energy and demeaner were absent. Calling him Casper the friendly ghost is an understatement. :oldlol:

Like I said, that shit matters. Maybe not to you, but to anyone that's ever played a sport in their life, it does.



Of course you can, but you wouldn't make sense in doing so. Not all performances/stats are equal. You are thinking inside the box; get out of it.


You are too emotional.

There is virtually no difference between Kobe's game 4 and Lebron's game 5. They both cost their teams a chance to win the series.

Want to know the real difference? Lebron plays like shit and his team loses by 32 points.

Kobe plays like shit and his team is up going into the 4th and had a 24 point lead at one point iirc.

LOL

kuniva_dAMiGhTy
06-04-2015, 01:48 PM
[quote]Also, Ariza wasn't a starter for the 08 Lakers. What are you talking about?

He and Bynum would have gotten starter minutes.. They were far more valuable than Z was to Cleveland. You're reaching hard. lol.

DMAVS41
06-04-2015, 01:51 PM
[QUOTE=DMAVS41]



He and Bynum would have gotten starter minutes.. They were far more valuable than Z was to Cleveland. You're reaching hard. lol.

Ariza wasn't a starter. This is a fact. It's not reaching at all.

Ariza played 24 games for the Lakers in the regular season and started 3. He did not start a game in the playoffs.

He averaged 18 minutes in the regular season and 6 minutes in the playoffs.

Reaching? LOL

I agree Bynum was more important than Big Z, but Bynum didn't play at all in the playoffs. So it's not like the Lakers wouldn't have been favored without him or something. Everyone knew he was out and everyone still picked/favored the Lakers...so that really isn't a good argument. And while Z wasn't amazing or anything...he did play a real role on that Cavs team. He played over 20 minutes per game.

kuniva_dAMiGhTy
06-04-2015, 01:57 PM
You are too emotional.

There is virtually no difference between Kobe's game 4 and Lebron's game 5. They both cost their teams a chance to win the series.

Want to know the real difference? Lebron plays like shit and his team loses by 32 points.

Kobe plays like shit and his team is up going into the 4th and had a 24 point lead at one point iirc.

LOL

I have no vested interest other than stating the facts. But to your point, yes there was a difference.

Kobe played with energy. Sure he didn't play well, but nobody thought he quit. LeBron played bad in game 4, but his team only lost by 10, on the road, and they were in it for most of the game. Matter of fact, it was a 2 point game in the 4th quarter despite him playing awful.

Game 5 though? LeBron was absent in large stretches, and totally looked uninterested. This was a point of discussion on nearly every sports radio show the day after.

When a team who's "mismatched" like you claim...has their main superstar checking out...its literally a trickle down effect. I've seen it all the time in sports.

I'll reiterate once more: stats are not equal

DMAVS41
06-04-2015, 02:03 PM
I have no vested interest other than stating the facts. But to your point, yes there was a difference.

Kobe played with energy. Sure he didn't play well, but nobody thought he quit. LeBron played bad in game 4, but his team only lost by 10, on the road, and they were in it for most of the game. Matter of fact, it was a 2 point game in the 4th quarter despite him playing awful.

Game 5 though? LeBron was absent in large stretches, and totally looked uninterested. This was a point of discussion on nearly every sports radio show the day after.

When a team who's "mismatched" like you claim...has their main superstar checking out...its literally a trickle down effect. I've seen it all the time in sports.

I'll reiterate once more: stats are not equal

Of course the stats aren't equal...they favor Lebron series to series.

But you don't see me claiming Lebron was much better or something.

It's just an emotional argument to sit here and claim Kobe's game 4 doesn't matter because "he tried"...when your star player plays like shit and is nowhere to be found when you are crumbling and blowing a 24 point lead...it's the same trickle down impact you speak of.

I don't know or care what happened with either of them in those games or series. It muddies the water for legit discussion.

Look at how many hoops you have to jump through and all this special pleading for Kobe to claim you are avoiding a clear cut double standard.


Also, how do you feel about Kobe's game 6 in 08? Why don't you hold Kobe to this same standard. You really think you can blame Lebron in such a harsh way and then not do the same shit to Kobe for game 6?

On your standard it's the trickle down impact. Perhaps Kobe had given up early in that game and that is what caused the 40 point massacre. Kobe does have a history of his teams getting absolutely torched in elimination games when they lose. I wonder why you don't bring this up with Kobe plays 43 minutes and only grabs 3 boards and has 1 assist. Dude settled for 9 threes.

Explain why this isn't a trickle down impact example you speak of?

kuniva_dAMiGhTy
06-04-2015, 02:04 PM
I agree Bynum was more important than Big Z, but Bynum didn't play at all in the playoffs. So it's not like the Lakers wouldn't have been favored without him or something. Everyone knew he was out and everyone still picked/favored the Lakers...so that really isn't a good argument. And while Z wasn't amazing or anything...he did play a real role on that Cavs team. He played over 20 minutes per game.

I didn't say they would. I just think they play MUCH better with those 2, who were needed the following year.

That's obvious though.

HOoopCityJones
06-04-2015, 02:07 PM
Does your mother know you have her picture in your avatar?

Isn't it time for you to crawl back into your hole? Oh wait, after 2/6.

kuniva_dAMiGhTy
06-04-2015, 02:12 PM
Of course the stats aren't equal...they favor Lebron series to series.

But you don't see me claiming Lebron was much better or something.

It's just an emotional argument to sit here and claim Kobe's game 4 doesn't matter because "he tried"...when your star player plays like shit and is nowhere to be found when you are crumbling and blowing a 24 point lead...it's the same trickle down impact you speak of.

I don't know or care what happened with either of them in those games or series. It muddies the water for legit discussion.

Look at how many hoops you have to jump through and all this special pleading for Kobe to claim you are avoiding a clear cut double standard.

But, I don't consider them "loop holes". It's mere dialogue for me. I don't mind bringing context into a contex-less, black and white argument you're presenting.

Statistically LeBron was awful in game 4, and his team was in it for 90% of the game.

Statistically LeBron was awful in game 5, and his team was blown out by 32.

Anyone who watched both games (and series), can tell the difference. Not all stats are equal; it's really that simple.

DMAVS41
06-04-2015, 02:12 PM
I didn't say they would. I just think they play MUCH better with those 2, who were needed the following year.

That's obvious though.

And the Cavs were much better with Big Z healthy...

And, in my opinion, were a better team without Jamison.

Jamison only played 25 games on the Cavs that year....it's not like he played all year and had a really good idea of what kind of team they'd be in tough playoff series with him.


Hickson and Big Z both played 21 minutes per game in the regular season. In the playoffs...Big Z was hurt and JJ played 7 minutes a game.


Just not seeing any real differences here....it's just a double standard plain and simple.

DMAVS41
06-04-2015, 02:13 PM
But, I don't consider them "loop holes". It's mere dialogue for me. I don't mind bringing context into a contex-less, black and white argument you're presenting.

Statistically LeBron was awful in game 4, and his team was in it for 90% of the game.

Statistically LeBron was awful in game 5, and his team was blown out by 32.

Anyone who watched both games (and series), can tell the difference. Not all stats are equal; it's really that simple.

I never said they were equal....I merely said that you are creating a double standard.

I could say the exact same thing.

Kobe was awful in game 4 and his team was still in it to the very end.

Kobe was awful in game 6 and his team lost by 40.

:confusedshrug:

Not to mention...the other part of this whole thing. Kobe had better coaching and more help in his series! That is absolutely relevant and we haven't even touched on the impact that has on performance when a star is out there virtually all alone.

HOoopCityJones
06-04-2015, 02:14 PM
dumb comment, first off no Laker fan bangs on Ariza for his 2009 playoffs run.. he put up better numbers in the playoffs than he did in the reg season so you're just making up shit there to be an asshole.. Ariza was great for the Lakers that year

in 2008 they were injured, Ariza tried to soldier through but missed 3/4s of the playoff games and Bynum who had been a solid contributor up until his injury but both were non factors in the finals run

in 2009 Bynum gets downplayed by knowledgeable Laker fans because once again he was injured and despite playing in every game was basically a non factor.. Laker fans downplay his contributions because idiots try and make his contributions greater than what they were

Bynum reg season 15 ppg 8 rebounds 2 blks and 30 minutes of play
Bynum playoffs 6ppg 4 rrebounds and -1 blk in 18 minutes of play

Idiots "Bynum is why they won the 2009 championship" That's why Laker fans laugh

in 2010 your ignorance shows through again because Bynum was once again injured and Ariza was no longer a Laker


Don't even entertain the strawman fallacy these fuccs try to put out. He had to throw Ariza out there because if he woulda just said Bynum ni99as woulda laughed at his ass. Bynum didn't become a true threat til 2012.

I haven't seen one Laker fan or even kobe stan shit on Ariza, not once. While Lebrion stans on the other hand wanna pretend guys like Mo Williams , Big Z and Antwan were d leaguers when they were in Cleveland.

HOoopCityJones
06-04-2015, 02:17 PM
This ni99a Dmavs has no argument apart from.

"You're just talking semantics, what about Kobe"

No one ever questioned Kobe's effort during the 08-10 stretch , they did at times with Lebron during that stretch. It's that simple.

DMAVS41
06-04-2015, 02:20 PM
This ni99a Dmavs has no argument apart from.

"You're just talking semantics, what about Kobe"

No one ever questioned Kobe's effort during the 08-10 stretch , they did at times with Lebron during that stretch. It's that simple.

This is an emotional argument though.

And you are referencing one game...a game in which Lebron said he was hurt.

Of all the big games Lebron had played in his career and life to date...you really think he shot a free throw left handed in the previous round in order to give himself an excuse if he lost later?

I can't say it it's true or not...so I don't bother wasting time worrying about the reasons behind stuff and try to focus on what actually happened.

And there is a clear cut double standard here....obvious

tpols
06-04-2015, 02:27 PM
Why the hate on 08? That "help" chart shows LAs stacked frontcourt was in the bottom half of supporting casts.. while KG had the 4th best in the history

Also did bron get destroyed even worse by 08 boston with his team actually taking them to more games than kobes could ??

HOoopCityJones
06-04-2015, 02:29 PM
Why the hate on 08? That "help" chart shows LAs stacked frontcourt was in the bottom half of supporting casts.. while KG had the 4th best in the history

Also did bron get destroyed even worse by 08 boston with his team actually taking them to more games than kobes could ??


You reply with emotions instead of facts, bad form.

kuniva_dAMiGhTy
06-04-2015, 02:30 PM
I never said they were equal....I merely said that you are creating a double standard.

I could say the exact same thing.

Kobe was awful in game 4 and his team was still in it to the very end.

Kobe was awful in game 6 and his team lost by 40.

Yeah but why would you? Just a few posts ago you said the difference between LeBron and Kobe was that Kobe's team was competitive through the 4th quarter, while LeBron's team lost by 32.

I then posted LeBron's game 4, and how his team was ALSO competitive despite him playing horrid.

I've been consistent with what I have presented - and its all factual (LeBron was perceived as a quitter after that series).

You're changing your arguments more than people do their underwear.

DMAVS41
06-04-2015, 02:31 PM
Why the hate on 08? That "help" chart shows LAs stacked frontcourt was in the bottom half of supporting casts.. while KG had the 4th best in the history

Also did bron get destroyed even worse by 08 boston with his team actually taking them to more games than kobes could ??

I'm not "hating" on 08.

I'm saying it's a double standard to say Lebron "should have beaten the 10 Celtics" and not do the same for Kobe in 08.

They played similarly and when you factor in coach/help...I think both players faced similar circumstances.

Solefade
06-04-2015, 02:33 PM
Does your mother know you have her picture in your avatar?



omfg i died :roll: :roll: :roll:

HOoopCityJones
06-04-2015, 02:33 PM
Yeah but why would you? Just a few posts ago you said the difference between LeBron and Kobe was that Kobe's team was competitive through the 4th quarter, while LeBron's team lost by 32.

I then posted LeBron's game 4, and how his team was ALSO competitive despite him playing horrid.

I've been consistent with what I am presenting - and its all factual (LeBron was perceived as a quitter after that series).

You're changing your arguments more than people do their underwear.

Which is why I don't even bother replying to him anymore. All he does is move goal posts once you counter his arguments. You go from discussing one thing to discussing something totally irrelevant to the initial argument. :oldlol:

DMAVS41
06-04-2015, 02:34 PM
Yeah but why would you? Just a few posts ago you said the difference between LeBron and Kobe that year was that Kobe's team was competitive through the 4th quarter, while LeBron's team lost by 32.

I then posted about LeBron's game 4 and how his team was ALSO still competitive despite ALSO playing like crap.

I've been consistent with what I am presenting - and its all factual (LeBron was perceived as a quitter after that series).

You're changing your arguments more than people do their underwear.


I was comparing those two games...LOL...the two swing games of the series.

You just got done saying there was a difference. And I post you into a corner and now you have to jump through more hoops.

Virtually none of what you have said is factual. You claimed Ariza was a starter....and you've made other claims that have no bearing on facts...they are your opinions.

Which is fine of course, but I hope you know a difference between a fact and an opinion.

Anyone reading this without being biased would see the double standard you are adhering to here.

Kobe goes ghost in the worst finals comeback ever...no big deal
Kobe's team loses by 39 in the biggest game of the year...no bid deal

:no:

Doesn't matter because Kobe tried hard....

DMAVS41
06-04-2015, 02:37 PM
Which is why I don't even bother replying to him anymore. All he does is move goal posts once you counter his arguments. You go from discussing one thing to discussing something totally irrelevant to the initial argument. :oldlol:

The initial argument was on whether or not the Cavs should have won in 10. I said no.

I said that is similar to saying the 08 Lakers should have beat the 08 Celtics.

And, not to my surprise, no Kobe fan wants to admit that it's a clear double standard to hold Lebron responsible but not Kobe.

Nothing has changed from that.

The goal posts being moved is all the jumping through hoops kuniva has done to try and explain why it matters so much more that Lebron played a certain way vs Kobe when the results were the exact same.

It's just pick your poison. Either hold Kobe to the same standard...or revise the take on the 10 series. There really isn't a way around it if you clowns are honest.

Solefade
06-04-2015, 02:37 PM
dumb comment, first off no Laker fan bangs on Ariza for his 2009 playoffs run.. he put up better numbers in the playoffs than he did in the reg season so you're just making up shit there to be an asshole.. Ariza was great for the Lakers that year

in 2008 they were injured, Ariza tried to soldier through but missed 3/4s of the playoff games and Bynum who had been a solid contributor up until his injury but both were non factors in the finals run

in 2009 Bynum gets downplayed by knowledgeable Laker fans because once again he was injured and despite playing in every game was basically a non factor.. Laker fans downplay his contributions because idiots try and make his contributions greater than what they were

Bynum reg season 15 ppg 8 rebounds 2 blks and 30 minutes of play
Bynum playoffs 6ppg 4 rrebounds and -1 blk in 18 minutes of play

Idiots "Bynum is why they won the 2009 championship" That's why Laker fans laugh

in 2010 your ignorance shows through again because Bynum was once again injured and Ariza was no longer a Laker


no no, when we're talking about how LeBron's "stacked" teams measure up in relation to the myth of how Kobe did it "by himself" in 2009/10 and you throw bynum/ariza into that conversation along with pau/odom/phil jackson you all laugh at it..why are you even denying it? it's been all over ISH for years

DMAVS41
06-04-2015, 02:42 PM
Lebron
Jamison
Mo
Andy
Shaq
Parker
West

Tell me that is better than:

KG
Pierce
Allen
Rondo
Perkins
Tony Allen
Rasheed
Big Baby

Like...really? We have to pretend that the Cavs should have beat this team?

Could they have? Absolutely...Lebron would have had to play great and dominate. Just like in 08. If Kobe had played great and dominated they could have won.

I'm not seeing any difference other than emotional arguments against Lebron.

HOoopCityJones
06-04-2015, 02:52 PM
But an 08 starting 5 of

Fisher
Kobe
Vladimir Radmanović
Odom
Gasol


first two off the bench were Sasha and Walton.

Somehow that line up should definitely beat that stacked ass 08 Celtics roster? How far you willing to reach? No one came to play in that series accept Kobe. It's a night and Day comparison.

TheMan
06-04-2015, 02:53 PM
I totally agree. I'm not buying the "Warriors are overwhelming favorites" premise. They may be more talented 1-12 but Cleveland has the bigger team (and will probably outrebound GS), the better defense and Lebron James (who GS can't defend). I can't write Cleveland off.

Rebounding will be a problem. GS will need to knock down a ton of jumpshots.
This

I just can't believe how the "experts" can't see this. LeBron and the Heat were destroyed last year because SA got hot and Miami were terrible at defending or challenging the Spurs, it was open look after open look, it was a damn shootaround :lol . I can't see this Cavs team comitting those same mistakes, they've been really good on defense this postseason. I'm still curious to see if the Cavs D is legit or more a reflection of just how bad EC competition has been, the Bulls and Hawks did miss a ton of open shots. Good defenses provoke those though, some teams press and miss their open looks when they have no other scoring options, the shooters start choking and go brick mode.

The Cavs in 6

kuniva_dAMiGhTy
06-04-2015, 02:56 PM
You just got done saying there was a difference. And I post you into a corner and now you have to jump through more hoops.

But you already posted yourself into a corner by double-talking. If you're willing to claim that, then you can concede LeBron should have won the series vs Boston, which was my original point to begin with.

And yes, Bynum/Ariza were important enough to make a difference. A bigger difference than "Z". That is a fact.


Anyone reading this without being biased would see the double standard you are adhering to here.

Kobe goes ghost in the worst finals comeback ever...no big deal
Kobe's team loses by 39 in the biggest game of the year...no bid deal

But where did I say it wasn't a big deal? All I said was that he didn't quit, and that LeBron laying down to the Celtics was worse because....he actually quit. :oldlol:

Posting straw-man to counter my arguments doesn't work.

Hell, nothing you've posted has countered anything worthwhile; they're just deflecting from the real point: Your boy quit. :oldlol:

DMAVS41
06-04-2015, 02:57 PM
But an 08 starting 5 of

Fisher
Kobe
Vladimir Radmanović
Odom
Gasol


first two off the bench were Sasha and Walton.

Somehow that line up should definitely beat that stacked ass 08 Celtics roster? How far you willing to reach? No one came to play in that series accept Kobe. It's a night and Day comparison.

What are you ****ing talking about?

I said it's the same thing as claiming the 10 Cavs should have beat the 10 Celtics.

I think the 08 Celtics and 10 Celtics were the better teams.

It is you...and others...that are creating a double standard when you say Lebron should have won, but not Kobe.

Also, who the **** came to play for the Cavs other than Lebron? I mean...Gasol was a whole lot better than anyone on the Cavs series vs series.

HOoopCityJones
06-04-2015, 02:58 PM
You're getting emotional.

kuniva_dAMiGhTy
06-04-2015, 03:01 PM
You're getting emotional.

LOL ... well played :applause:

DMAVS41
06-04-2015, 03:01 PM
But you already posted yourself into a corner by double-talking. If you're willing to claim that, then you can concede LeBron should have won the series vs Boston, which was my original point to begin with.

And yes, Bynum/Ariza were important enough to make a difference. A bigger difference than "Z". That is a fact.



But where did I say it wasn't a big deal? All I said was that he didn't quit, and that LeBron laying down to the Celtics was worse because....he actually quit. :oldlol:

Posting straw-man to counter my arguments doesn't work.

Hell, nothing you've posted has countered anything worthwhile; they're just deflecting from the real point: Your boy quit. :oldlol:

You aren't making sense again.

The real point? I never once even brought up the quitting. I said I don't like to pretend to know if he quit or was injured or ran out of gas. I said this right off the bat.

Here is your first post to me:


Well its not crazy to think the Cavs should have won in '10 either. In fact, most thought they should have. LeBron, to catch's point, played below his standards. Clearly.

You said nothing of quitting. That wasn't the point ever. You brought that up when you started to jump through hoops.

Look at your statement.

The same statement could be made about Kobe. Kobe clearly played below his standards in the 08 finals and most people thought the Lakers would win as I already proved.

Please answer this.

DMAVS41
06-04-2015, 03:02 PM
LOL ... well played :applause:

Just take the L...it's getting bad for you now.

I just quoted your first post...ugh...

Out_In_Utah
06-04-2015, 03:04 PM
No excuses LeBron fans. No excuses.

kuniva_dAMiGhTy
06-04-2015, 03:08 PM
You aren't making sense again.

The real point? I never once even brought up the quitting. I said I don't like to pretend to know if he quit or was injured or ran out of gas. I said this right off the bat.

Here is your first post to me:


Well its not crazy to think the Cavs should have won in '10 either. In fact, most thought they should have. LeBron, to catch's point, played below his standards. Clearly.

But tiny dancer, LeBron playing awful and then subsequently quitting is exactly why the Cavs lost to begin with. That Cavs team who were not only favorites, but had HCA throughout the playoffs.

You cannot separate the two.


That wasn't the point ever. You brought that up when you started to jump through hoops.


Saying that there is a distinction between quitting and playing awful isn't jumping through hoops. LeBron was perceived as a quitter by many in the media. Just a fact.

Kobe? Okay he played bad, but really just lost to a better team. A team with HCA. :confusedshrug:

SilkkTheShocker
06-04-2015, 03:08 PM
No excuses LeBron fans. No excuses.

Predicted Cavs in 5 in my first post, baby d.ick.

kuniva_dAMiGhTy
06-04-2015, 03:09 PM
Just take the L...it's getting bad for you now.

I just quoted your first post...ugh...
Me and HoopJones just taking turns beating on you.

You're our personal punching bag. Like that? :banana:

DMAVS41
06-04-2015, 03:10 PM
But tiny dancer, LeBron playing awful and then subsequently quitting is exactly the Cavs lost to begin with. That Cavs team who were not only favorites, but had HCA throughout the playoffs.

You cannot separate the two.



Saying that there is a distinction between quitting and playing awful isn't jumping through hoops. LeBron was perceived as a quitter by many in the media. Just a fact.

Kobe? Okay he played bad really just lost to a better team. A team with HCA. :confusedshrug:


A few things:

1. I don't think Lebron is the main reason the Cavs lost that series. I think the Celtics were clearly a better team and the matchups of Mo/Jamison vs Rondo/Allen/KG were just a nightmare and Lebron can't fix that.

2. If you are arguing Lebron as the main reason...logic then demands one must argue Kobe as the main reason. You simply can't ignore that.

3. You don't know if he quit or he was actually injured...etc. So wasting time talking about that is irrelevant.

4. How do you know the Celtics were the better team though? The Lakers were favored and 90% of ESPN experts picked them to win the series. Using your trickle down impact logic...couldn't it be that Kobe's "really bad play" (your words) is what caused the Lakers to lose? Please answer.

So I'm confused on your position. It's okay that Kobe played just as poorly and lost to the better team, but it's not okay for Lebron because he played a shit game 5 while potentially being hurt?

Really? That is your argument?

And you can't see the double standard?

:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

DMAVS41
06-04-2015, 03:11 PM
Me and HoopJones just taking turns beating on you.

You're our personal punching bag. Like that? :banana:

The sad thing is that you might honestly believe that.

HOoopCityJones
06-04-2015, 03:11 PM
Predicted Cavs in 5 with my baby d.ick.

No one wanna hear that shit.

kuniva_dAMiGhTy
06-04-2015, 03:13 PM
A few things:

1. I don't think Lebron is the main reason the Cavs lost that series. I think the Celtics were clearly a better team and the matchups of Mo/Jamison vs Rondo/Allen/KG were just a nightmare and Lebron can't fix that.

So playing like absolute crap in swing games, and later quitting in-between, at home, isn't the main reason his team lost?

We can agree to disagree. I'll go with the facts and perception at the time.

SilkkTheShocker
06-04-2015, 03:18 PM
No one wanna hear that shit.


Pipe down boy, and shine my shoes.

DMAVS41
06-04-2015, 03:18 PM
So playing like absolute crap in swing games, and later quitting in-between, at home, isn't the main reason his team lost?

We can agree to disagree. I'll go with the facts and perception at the time.


Dude....here is a sentence about Kobe. You tell me what is wrong with it.

So playing like absolute crap in the first game of the series, in the swing game of the series while blowing a 24 point lead (biggest in finals history at the time iirc), at home, and then giving no real effort in the game 6 elimination game isn't the main reason his team lost?

Tell me what is wrong with that.

As for facts and perception at the time. Apply that same logic to the 08 Lakers. The Lakers were favored and most experts picked them. So why do you call the 08 Celtics better if you are going with the facts and perception at the time?

SilkkTheShocker
06-04-2015, 03:21 PM
So playing like absolute crap in swing games, and later quitting in-between, at home, isn't the main reason his team lost?

We can agree to disagree. I'll go with the facts and perception at the time.

You keep ignoring the fact Mo made Rondo look like prime Magic, and Jamison got torched by KG to the point they actually made Shaq guard him. Not to mention getting almost no bench scoring. So no, you can't put it all on one player.

kuniva_dAMiGhTy
06-04-2015, 03:21 PM
Dude....here is a sentence about Kobe. You tell me what is wrong with it.

Kobe never "quit" in his series like LeBron did in game 5. The same LeBron who according to another poster, was cleared of not 1, but 2 MRI's. :roll:

Again: playing awful =/= playing awful AND quitting

Not sure why you're having trouble with this distinction.

Ne 1
06-04-2015, 03:23 PM
Kobe in 08.


Not nearly as bad as people make it out to be. There was no Laker who played well enough to prevent that legendary '08 Celtic defense from swarming him. Gasol reverted to Gasoft in that series on both ends of the floor, making Kobe's poor shooting series understandable. Look at what LeBron did vs that 2008 Celtic defense, he shot 35% and averaged over 5 turnovers. The Celtics were able to load up on Kobe because he wasn't getting enough help. So yes, he shot the ball poorly, but with one of the greatest defensive teams of all time focusing almost entirely on one player, it's not a big deal in terms of his legacy. Boston also had a much more talented team with the Lakers missing Bynum and Ariza.

DMAVS41
06-04-2015, 03:24 PM
Kobe never "quit" in his series like LeBron did in game 5. The same LeBron who according to another poster, was cleared of not 1, but 2 MRI's. :roll:

Again: Playing awful =/= quitting

Not sure why you're having trouble with this distinction.


You don't know he quit. You keep claiming that as fact. All I know is that he said he was injured...and I know he shot a left handed ft for no reason in the previous series.

If I were to make a call, which I don't like doing because the reasons behind the play shouldn't matter...I'd go with him being hurt because it makes no sense to make that up.

Kobe's play in game 6 could absolutely be defined as "quitting"...

43 minutes and only 3 boards and 1 assist??????? You think that's indicative of Kobe playing his heart out?

kuniva_dAMiGhTy
06-04-2015, 03:24 PM
You keep ignoring the fact Mo made Rondo look like prime Magic, and Jamison got torched by KG to the point they actually made Shaq guard him. Not to mention getting almost no bench scoring. So no, you can't put it all on one player.
I never said I placed blame on LeBron entirely. Do I first blame the leader of a team for quitting? Yeah, I'd think anyone with reason would do so as well.

SilkkTheShocker
06-04-2015, 03:25 PM
Not nearly as bad as people make it out to be. There was no Laker who played well enough to prevent that legendary '08 Celtic defense from swarming him. Gasol reverted to Gasoft in that series on both ends of the floor, making Kobe's poor shooting series understandable. Look at what LeBron did vs that 2008 Celtic defense, he shot 35% and averaged over 5 turnovers. The Celtics were able to load up on Kobe because he wasn't getting enough help. So yes, he shot the ball poorly, but with one of the greatest defensive teams of all time focusing almost entirely on one player, it's not a big deal in terms of his legacy. Boston also had a much more talented team with the Lakers missing Bynum and Ariza.

Lakers were favored to win the series.

DMAVS41
06-04-2015, 03:26 PM
Not nearly as bad as people make it out to be. There was no Laker who played well enough to prevent that legendary '08 Celtic defense from swarming him. Gasol reverted to Gasoft in that series on both ends of the floor, making Kobe's poor shooting series understandable. Look at what LeBron did vs that 2008 Celtic defense, he shot 35% and averaged over 5 turnovers. The Celtics were able to load up on Kobe because he wasn't getting enough help. So yes, he shot the ball poorly, but with one of the greatest defensive teams of all time focusing almost entirely on one player, it's not a big deal in terms of his legacy. Boston also had a much more talented team with the Lakers missing Bynum and Ariza.


And take a look at the 10 Celtics and the help Lebron had. Lebron had much worse help and coaching in 10 than Kobe had in 08. Lebron also performed better statistically, even with the game 5, than Kobe did in 08.

Lebron absolutely had nobody to prevent that Celtics team from swarming him. Mo and Jamison were ****ing dreadful in that series on both ends.

Again...that is why the comparison works so swell. They were very similar circumstances and series.

To claim one is completely different than the other is a huge error in logic.

DMAVS41
06-04-2015, 03:28 PM
I never said I placed blame on LeBron entirely. Do I first blame the leader of a team for quitting? Yeah, I'd think anyone with reason would do so as well.

So why don't you blame Kobe for game 6?

On your thinking...what more evidence do you need to know a player quit? 3 boards, 1 assist, settles for 9 3's....team loses by 40 in the biggest game of the year.

So what is the difference?

DMAVS41
06-04-2015, 03:31 PM
Sure I do. That's what I and the most of the country that weren't LeBron fans saw. And knowing NOW that he wasn't injured, makes it logical to deduce it as fact.

No...you actually don't. That isn't a fact.

But again...I'll try to speak your language.

How then, on that logic, can you call the Celtics in 08 a better team.

Most of the country thought the Lakers would win, Vegas had them favored, and a majority of basketball experts picked the Lakers.

So how do you claim the 08 Lakers weren't as good?

kNicKz
06-04-2015, 03:34 PM
It would be an upset but far from being one of the biggest ever

kuniva_dAMiGhTy
06-04-2015, 03:35 PM
No...you actually don't. That isn't a fact.

But again...I'll try to speak your language.

How then, on that logic, can you call the Celtics in 08 a better team.

Most of the country thought the Lakers would win, Vegas had them favored, and a majority of basketball experts picked the Lakers.

So how do you claim the 08 Lakers weren't as good?

But it is. He literally quit in game 5. No energy, no drive, just an emotionless robot playing through the motions. The MRI's say it all. He quit.

You can scream up and down, yelling that its not true, but it won't change reality.

Most of the country didn't think Kobe quit; unfortunately the same can't be said about LeBron. Fact.

riseagainst
06-04-2015, 03:36 PM
Lakers were favored to win the series.

no they weren't.....

Celtics odds to win finals: 1/2
Lakers odds: 4/1

after the 1st round, the lakers went down to 10/1, and Spurs were the favorites to get out of the West. While the Celtics were 6/5.

:coleman:

DMAVS41
06-04-2015, 03:38 PM
But it is. He literally quit in game 5. No energy, no drive, just an emotionless robot playing through the motions. The MRI's say it all. He quit.

You can scream up and down, yelling that its not true, but it won't change reality.

Most of the country didn't think Kobe quit; unfortunately the same can't be said about LeBron. Fact.

I'm not yelling about it being true or false. I literally don't care. I'm pointing out that you don't know what happened. What you are describing as a fact simply isn't one.

I'm trying to think on your line here.

So I'm asking. Why do you then call the 08 Celtics better than the Lakers on that logic?

DMAVS41
06-04-2015, 03:39 PM
no they weren't.....

Celtics odds to win finals: 1/2
Lakers odds: 4/1

after the 1st round, the lakers went down to 10/1, and Spurs were the favorites to get out of the West. While the Celtics were 6/5.

:coleman:

This is false.

The Lakers were favored in the finals.

http://sportsgambling.about.com/od/basketball/a/08nbafinals.htm

SilkkTheShocker
06-04-2015, 03:40 PM
no they weren't.....

Celtics odds to win finals: 1/2
Lakers odds: 4/1

after the 1st round, the lakers went down to 10/1, and Spurs were the favorites to get out of the West. While the Celtics were 6/5.

:coleman:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs2008/series?series=lalbos

riseagainst
06-04-2015, 03:41 PM
This is false.

The Lakers were favored in the finals.

This is false.

The Celtics were favored in the finals.

kuniva_dAMiGhTy
06-04-2015, 03:41 PM
I'm not yelling about it being true or false. I literally don't care. I'm pointing out that you don't know what happened. What you are describing as a fact simply isn't one.

I'm trying to think on your line here.

So I'm asking. Why do you then call the 08 Celtics better than the Lakers on that logic?
If you didn't care you wouldn't be replying to everyone in this thread.

Me? I am replying because I care about the truth: LeBron did in fact quit

The 08 Celtics aren't the 10 Celtics. Just because they're the same franchise doesn't mean they're the same exact team. :oldlol:

riseagainst
06-04-2015, 03:42 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs2008/series?series=lalbos

does that say anything about odds? Sorry i guess we should all bet money according to ESPN's picks instead of vegas odds right?

:lol

DMAVS41
06-04-2015, 03:42 PM
This is false.

The Celtics were favored in the finals.

http://sportsgambling.about.com/od/basketball/a/08nbafinals.htm

Post evidence please.

Post the Vegas lines please.

I bet the ****ing Celtics and I got +170 for the series.

:roll:

DMAVS41
06-04-2015, 03:43 PM
If you didn't care you wouldn't be replying to everyone in this thread.

I am replying because I care about the truth: LeBron did in fact quit

The 08 Celtics aren't the 10 Celtics. Just because they're the same franchise doesn't mean they're the same exact team. :oldlol:

I care about the topic at hand. Not the quitting vs playing bad...that is your deal.

Again I ask, using that logic of perception at the time, why you say the 08 Celtics were better.

DMAVS41
06-04-2015, 03:43 PM
does that say anything about odds? Sorry i guess we should all bet money according to ESPN's picks instead of vegas odds right?

:lol


http://sportsgambling.about.com/od/basketball/a/08nbafinals.htm

Moron.

SilkkTheShocker
06-04-2015, 03:46 PM
http://sportsgambling.about.com/od/basketball/a/08nbafinals.htm

Moron.

:oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: DESTROYED


:lol :lol

Ne 1
06-04-2015, 03:51 PM
But it is. He literally quit in game 5. No energy, no drive, just an emotionless robot playing through the motions. The MRI's say it all. He quit.

You can scream up and down, yelling that its not true, but it won't change reality.

Most of the country didn't think Kobe quit; unfortunately the same can't be said about LeBron. Fact.

And yet with Lebron playing like absolute shit in the first half of game 4 and 6, it was still a game. I'm still wondering how the Cavs managed to stay competitive with the Celtics when LeBron shot 8-21 and had 9 turnovers. Also I don't see how Lebron didn't have a "good enough team" when he played so poorly in game 5, 3-14 in that game while looking absolutely lost on both sides of the court while Shaq and Parker showed up.

kuniva_dAMiGhTy
06-04-2015, 03:57 PM
I care about the topic at hand. Not the quitting vs playing bad...that is your deal.

Again I ask, using that logic of perception at the time, why you say the 08 Celtics were better.

The quitting vs playing bad ordeal is what the topic has shifted into, and people with a grip on reality will readily admit that LeBron quit.

As for the 08 Celtics? IMO they were better because they outplayed a team who neither had HCA or who's best player quit.

Outplaying a team who is without HCA and has their BEST player not quitting isn't exactly out of the ordinary. :hammerhead:


And yet with Lebron playing like absolute shit in the first half of game 4 and 6, it was still a game. I'm still wondering how the Cavs managed to stay competitive with the Celtics when LeBron shot 8-21 and had 9 turnovers. Also I don't see how Lebron didn't have a "good enough team" when he played so poorly in game 5, 3-14 in that game while looking absolutely lost on both sides of the court while Shaq and Parker showed up.

Exactly.

DMAVS41
06-04-2015, 03:58 PM
The quitting vs playing bad ordeal is what the topic has shifted into, and people with a grip on reality will readily admit that LeBron quit in that series.

As for the 08 Celtics? IMO they were better because they outplayed a team who neither had HCA or who's best player quit.

Outplaying a team who is without HCA and has their BEST player not quitting isn't exactly out of the ordinary. :hammerhead:

But, using your definitions, I think Kobe quit in game 6. All the evidence supports it. No effort on defense, looked passive, settled, not rebounding, no attacking the rim....his team got blown out by 40.

Also, your logic here makes no sense. You could have a player play way worse than Lebron did in 10...and you'd say you have to claim said player played better than Lebron solely based on whether or not you determine Lebron quit?

Makes no sense.

HCA is being propped up here too much.

The Lakers were favored and experts picked the Lakers by an overwhelming majority at ESPN.

You are once again caught...not only do you have no basis on your "perceptions at the time" line of thinking, but your "trickle down impact" logic grades Kobe harshly here.

Not only did Kobe wet the bed in the swing game of the series, but all the evidence points to him quitting in game 6.

Again, this is why it's such a perfect example...and this illustrates the absurd double standard you've created.

DMAVS41
06-04-2015, 04:01 PM
And yet with Lebron playing like absolute shit in the first half of game 4 and 6, it was still a game. I'm still wondering how the Cavs managed to stay competitive with the Celtics when LeBron shot 8-21 and had 9 turnovers. Also I don't see how Lebron didn't have a "good enough team" when he played so poorly in game 5, 3-14 in that game while looking absolutely lost on both sides of the court while Shaq and Parker showed up.

And yet with Kobe playing like absolute shit in game 1...it was still a game. The ****er shot 9 of 26 from the field and scored 24 points.

And yet with Kobe playing like absolute shit in game 4...the Lakers built a 24 point lead. Kobe shot 6 of 19 and crumbled in the biggest game of the series.

Also, I don't see how Kobe didn't have a "good enough team" when he played so poorly overall in the series on both sides of the court while Pau and Lamar showed up.

:applause:

DMAVS41
06-04-2015, 04:01 PM
The quitting vs playing bad ordeal is what the topic has shifted into, and people with a grip on reality will readily admit that LeBron quit.

As for the 08 Celtics? IMO they were better because they outplayed a team who neither had HCA or who's best player quit.

Outplaying a team who is without HCA and has their BEST player not quitting isn't exactly out of the ordinary. :hammerhead:



Exactly.


:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

SilkkTheShocker
06-04-2015, 04:03 PM
DMAVS tearing these losers to pieces :oldlol: :oldlol:

kuniva_dAMiGhTy
06-04-2015, 04:04 PM
But, using your definitions, I think Kobe quit in game 6. All the evidence supports it. No effort on defense, looked passive, settled, not rebounding, no attacking the rim....his team got blown out by 40.

But you and LeBron fans would be the only people to think that.

I watched the game and never saw anything like that. In fact, not very many in the media did either.

LeBron? As already pointed out, was chastised by the media for not only his lackluster play, but EFFORT.

The fact you're still incapable of distinguishing the two is scary. Like, do we need someone to make a visual for you?

DMAVS41
06-04-2015, 04:06 PM
DMAVS tearing these losers to pieces :oldlol: :oldlol:

It really is just sad.

Kuniva just said "exactly" to a post that said Shaq and Parker showed up.

Here we go...this is good:

Shaq - 14/5/1
Parker - 8/3/1


Pau - 15/10/3
Lamar - 14/9/3


The double standard....

kuniva_dAMiGhTy
06-04-2015, 04:06 PM
DMAVS tearing these losers to pieces :oldlol: :oldlol:
Yeah that's right. Keep cheerleading. That's all you're good for, *** dumpster. :oldlol:

Droid101
06-04-2015, 04:07 PM
This thread:

http://media.giphy.com/media/6HFUDKwlWcAbC/giphy.gif

DMAVS41
06-04-2015, 04:10 PM
But you and LeBron fans would be the only people to think that.

I watched the game and never saw anything like that. In fact, not very many in the media did either.

LeBron? As already pointed out, was chastised by the media for not only his lackluster play, but EFFORT.

The fact you're still incapable of distinguishing the two is scary. Like, do we need someone to make a visual for you?


What I saw was Lebron playing like he didn't want to shoot or attack as much as usual because something wasn't right. Was that his elbow, his ****ed up head, his stamina....I have no clue.

And if one makes me pick...I'll trust the guy actually telling us his elbow is hurt and we have the evidence of him shooting a left handed ft the round before.

That makes more sense than thinking he made it all up.


What I saw in Kobe in game 6? A guy that didn't try at all after he made those early shots when he looked at the crowd and said "not tonight"...one of the funnier moments in NBA history...team goes on to lose by 40.

But again...I don't care about this. You do.

You said the Cavs should have beat the Celtics, but you claim the Lakers should not have beat the Celtics.

You have failed miserably in supporting the reasons why...all you do is act like a little bitch claiming Lebron quit. When that has no bearing on whether or not the Celtics were the better team.

Which they ****ing clearly were.

And if you claim it's all connected...then it's all connected for Kobe. Even if I agree Lebron "quit"...it doesn't change anything.

Cavs lost because Lebron quit
Lakers lost because Kobe played poorly

Either way it's the same result. The Lakers win if Kobe plays well and the Cavs win if Lebron doesn't quit.

Mind you, I don't agree with that...but even your own line of thinking doesn't get you to a place in which the Cavs should have won, but the Lakers shouldn't have.

Which is exactly the real debate mate...

SexSymbol
06-04-2015, 04:13 PM
Dmavs not seeing a difference between quitting and playing bad is just an agenda driven pretend idiot.
Stop acting like you don't know what they're talking about. Quitting is about not trying. LeBron visually quit in 10, Kobe just played bad in 08. There's a difference.

IllegalD
06-04-2015, 04:15 PM
DMAVs is a loser who spends more time posting about Kobe than he does about his own team, the Mavericks.

Another poster already exposed him as a scumbag who has to share a computer with his brothers because they live in a trailer park or something.

DMAVS41
06-04-2015, 04:18 PM
Dmavs not seeing a difference between quitting and playing bad is just an agenda driven pretend idiot.
Stop acting like you don't know what they're talking about. Quitting is about not trying. LeBron visually quit in 10, Kobe just played bad in 08. There's a difference.

For starters, that isn't the debate...like at all.

Even if I grant that, it doesn't change anything.

If you say that the Cavs should have won...then you must say the Lakers should have won.

Quitting and playing bad are different in terms of what they are...but the impact is the same.

There is no difference from an impact perspective between Lebron doing what he did in game 5 and Kobe doing what he did in game 6 or game 4.

And again, I see no evidence that Kobe didn't quit in game 6. He sure looked like he stopped trying to me. But I guess the standards for Kobe are much lower here as usual...I guess only 3 boards and 1 assist in 43 minutes is evidence of a player playing his heart out.

Kobe scored 8 points in the first 3 minutes of the game iirc. That means he scored 14 points the rest of the way. Only got to the line 5 times...

That is evidence of him continuing to play hard and try??????

DMAVS41
06-04-2015, 04:19 PM
Ahhhh....

When your arguments have won...the personal attacks start coming from people behind computers making fun of other people behind computers.

Cheers...

HOoopCityJones
06-04-2015, 04:19 PM
DMAVs is a loser who spends more time posting about Kobe than he does about his own team, the Mavericks.

Another poster already exposed him as a scumbag who has to share a computer with his brothers because they live in a trailer park or something.

http://imlikesoblonde.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/damn.gif

kuniva_dAMiGhTy
06-04-2015, 04:25 PM
nonplayerzealot to LeBron: Yeah his effort was definitely questionable. That's why the next day the sportsworld put him on blast for not only playing like ass, but for giving little to no effort.

LeBron vampires: Well Kobe played bad in the finals back in 2008, therefor he must have quit too. I mean, nobody really talked about the effort he gave, we're just looking at his stat-line here, and, well, if the shoe fits...


...Later that year, their boy jumps ship and forms The Heatles

I think we got the memo here, fellas :confusedshrug:

FLDFSU
06-04-2015, 04:25 PM
I will say it again.

It is Lebron's haters that give him highest compliments. They are the ones who think Lebron played poorly while leading his team in points, assists, minutes, steals, rebounds, their best defender, and having the offense flow through him.

Any other player that leads his team in all relevant statistical categories and loses...would be thought of a God and his teammates not worthy of the ground he walks.

With Lebron we get: "He played below his standards."

That is high praise. I am not even sure Jordan would be expected to carry such a load.


That Cleveland-Boston series literally had Lebron as the best player...and then the next 5 most impactful players wore green.

That Boston team was one KG injury away and the Miami Heat from going to 5 straight NBA finals. They were one KG injury and one game 7 Perkins injury from becoming 3x defending champions...

Yet, Lebron "he's a cancer" James is expected to defeat that team with Mo Williams...

ArbitraryWater
06-04-2015, 04:26 PM
Me and HoopJones just taking turns beating on you.

You're our personal punching bag. Like that? :banana:

:biggums:

I swear you got hacked :oldlol:

you ain't looking too good, neither is HoopsJones.

LeBron's best is so much better than Kobe's best, he actually played a better Celtics series than Kobe did in 2010. No Kobe game comes close to LeBron's game 1 35/7/7 on 50%, LeBron's game 3 38/8/7 on 64%... If you wanna talk about crap games I'm sure 6 of 24 is matching Bron's game 5.

so saying LeBron needed to play 'normal' is false from the start... the stuff he did in the playoffs in 2009 and 2010, were NORMAL to him but at a much higher level than what Kobe did.

Mo Williams 2009 ECF:
36-97 37% shooting (games 1-4: 23-71 32%)

Mo Williams 2010 ECSF:
13.3 points on 41%

This is LeBron's great sidekick everyone told us about back then.... 'he now has Mo Williams! LeBron has help, LeBron can win now'


Lol at catch24's dig 'monopolizing the ball every possession helped his team either' the audacity, see's everyone play like trash and because Bron was doing everything, at a HIGH efficiency level, he's now shooting too much... otherwise he'd be quitting, of course... any less and thats quitting.

In 2008 Kobe did this from game's 4-6:

G4: 17 on 6-19 32%
G5: 25 on 8-21 38%
G6: 22 on 7-22 32%

suddenly this isn't relevant anymore? Like he didn't just have 3 trash games to close it out? Like he didn't lose a 20 something point lead in game 4, and I'm sure the turnaround bucket was Ray Allen scoring on Kobe's poor closeout?!

In LeBron's supposed 'quit jobs', he's more productive across the board than Kobe in his non quit jobs... weird.

How much, even if this arbitrary assumption would be true, would this matter if he quits and STILL outperforms him? :oldlol:

I believe he played very hard, btw... I can't see how you score 27 points, grab 19 rebounds, 10 assists, and have 9 TO's (which is another indicator of TRYING) and not play hard... wait for 'just weak side rebounds doe', though... otherwise we'd be picking at him for one bad game.. like this hasn't happened before, MJ scoring 18 in the 1989 ECF G5 Tiebreaker, with one point in the 4th quarter... I'm sure I could find plenty of big games with Kobe coming up short.. don't even need to 'find them', we've all heard of his putrid game 7 and elimination game performances, at which point you, Kuniva, btw, called him the most overrated ATG ever.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=330612
http://i.gyazo.com/8af002206aa5a26f2a8beb378419f5ba.png

HOoopCityJones
06-04-2015, 04:27 PM
nonplayerzealot to LeBron: Yeah his effort was definitely questionable. That's why the next day the sportsworld put him on blast for not only playing like ass, but for giving little to no effort.

LeBron vampires: Well Kobe played bad in the finals back in 2008, therefor he must have quit too. I mean, nobody really talked about the effort he gave, we're just looking at his stat-line here, and, well, if the shoe fits...



I think we got the memo here, fellas :confusedshrug:

You're just arguing semantics.

IllegalD
06-04-2015, 04:27 PM
Ahhhh....

When your arguments have won...the personal attacks start coming from people behind computers making fun of other people behind computers.

Cheers...

:cheers:

Did I strike a nerve? :lol

DMAVS41
06-04-2015, 04:29 PM
nonplayerzealot to LeBron: Yeah his effort was definitely questionable. That's why the next day the sportsworld put him on blast for not only playing like ass, but for giving little to no effort.

LeBron vampires: Well Kobe played bad in the finals back in 2008, therefor he must have quit too. I mean, nobody really talked about the effort he gave, we're just look at his stat-line, and, well, if the shoe fits...



I think we got the memo here, fellas :confusedshrug:

I thought at the time Kobe laid down in that game. I've talked about it here before.

He has a history of laying down in those games.

It's not just the stats...it's more about the absolute lack of playing like it was his last game of the year.

HOoopCityJones
06-04-2015, 04:30 PM
Aw shit , here comes the bandwagon hopper.

http://replygif.net/i/1286.gif

I'm outty

DMAVS41
06-04-2015, 04:30 PM
:biggums:

I swear you got hacked :oldlol:

you ain't looking too good, neither is HoopsJones.

LeBron's best is so much better than Kobe's best, he actually played a better Celtics series than Kobe did in 2010. No Kobe game comes close to LeBron's game 1 35/7/7 on 50%, LeBron's game 3 38/8/7 on 64%... If you wanna talk about crap games I'm sure 6 of 24 is matching Bron's game 5.

so saying LeBron needed to play 'normal' is false from the start... the stuff he did in the playoffs in 2009 and 2010, were NORMAL to him but at a much higher level than what Kobe did.

Mo Williams 2009 ECF:
36-97 37% shooting (games 1-4: 23-71 32%)

Mo Williams 2010 ECSF:
13.3 points on 41%

This is LeBron's great sidekick everyone told us about back then.... 'he now has Mo Williams! LeBron has help, LeBron can win now'


Lol at catch24's dig 'monopolizing the ball every possession helped his team either' the audacity, see's everyone play like trash and because Bron was doing everything, at a HIGH efficiency level, he's now shooting too much... otherwise he'd be quitting, of course... any less and thats quitting.

In 2008 Kobe did this from game's 4-6:

G4: 17 on 6-19 32%
G5: 25 on 8-21 38%
G6: 22 on 7-22 32%

suddenly this isn't relevant anymore? Like he didn't just have 3 trash games to close it out? Like he didn't lose a 20 something point lead in game 4, and I'm sure the turnaround bucket was Ray Allen scoring on Kobe's poor closeout?!

In LeBron's supposed 'quit jobs', he's more productive across the board than Kobe in his non quit jobs... weird.

How much, even if this arbitrary assumption would be true, would this matter if he quits and STILL outperforms him? :oldlol:

I believe he played very hard, btw... I can't see how you score 27 points, grab 19 rebounds, 10 assists, and have 9 TO's (which is another indicator of TRYING) and not play hard... wait for 'just weak side rebounds doe', though... otherwise we'd be picking at him for one bad game.. like this hasn't happened before, MJ scoring 18 in the 1989 ECF G5 Tiebreaker, with one point in the 4th quarter... I'm sure I could find plenty of big games with Kobe coming up short.. don't even need to 'find them', we've all heard of his putrid game 7 and elimination game performances, at which point you, Kuniva, btw, called him the most overrated ATG ever.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=330612
http://i.gyazo.com/8af002206aa5a26f2a8beb378419f5ba.png


Ouch....

ArbitraryWater
06-04-2015, 04:32 PM
Aw shit , here comes the bandwagon hopper.

http://replygif.net/i/1286.gif

I'm outty

Oh you're "outty" ? You've never even been "in"... you're just being a waste of data, hopping from dick to dick. Good riddance.

kuniva_dAMiGhTy
06-04-2015, 04:33 PM
I'm confused. Was me saying that Kobe plays like trash in elimination games, OR that he's overrated, change anything about LeBron quitting?

:confusedshrug: