LeBron vs Hakeem - who do you rank higher all-time?

[illmaticone]

I got Hakeem in the #10 spot. If LeBron wins this year with this Cavs team vs. GSW I think he breaks into the top-10, but as of now I think Hakeem should be ranked higher all-time.

He has the same amount of championships (finals mvps) with inferior talent and having to go through a tougher road. He also took a pretty bad team to the finals in '86 and won 2 games vs. the best team of all-time.

Who do you guys rank higher all-time? Does your opinion change if LeBron wins this year? And where do you rank LeBron if he wins this year?

[r15mohd]

Lebron's at 11 looking in...however when's all said and done, with the same finals/fmvps to their names, Lebron will hold the 10 spot because he will just have that much more to his resume as does the Dream

if Lebron wins this year and gets FMVP, he'll bump up to #9 to replace Kobe and Hakeem drop out the top 10, personally.

[illmaticone]

Lebron's at 11 looking in...however when's all said and done, with the same finals/fmvps to their names, Lebron will hold the 10 spot because he will just have that much more to his resume as does the Dream

if Lebron wins this year and gets FMVP, he'll bump up to #9 to replace Kobe and Hakeem drop out the top 10, personally.

I agree with this. LeBron is #9 if he wins this year. However, losing this year and potentially future years could definitely impact LeBron's overall rank. If he retires with the same amount of rings/finals MVP's as Hakeem (2), playing in the weak Eastern Conference that he plays in, that would probably mean he's going to lose 2-3 more times in the finals. I don't think he would take the #10 spot in that case.

[r15mohd]

I agree with this. LeBron is #9 if he wins this year. However, losing this year and potentially future years could definitely impact LeBron's overall rank. If he retires with the same amount of rings/finals MVP's as Hakeem (2), playing in the weak Eastern Conference that he plays in, that would probably mean he's going to lose 2-3 more times in the finals. I don't think he would take the #10 spot in that case.


well this where you and I will surely disagree...losing in the Finals isn't a huge setback for me, especially considering Lebron's 2007 run and this year's depleted Cavs team if they were to lose.

no one takes away anything from Magic, Bird, TD, Kobe, or even the great Wilt...so no reason for it to be held against Lebron. all the other guys are ranked on what they achieved, not what they didnt.

[illmaticone]

Of those players you listed, Duncan is 5/6, Magic is 5/9, Kobe is 5/7, and Bird is 3/5. I wouldn't hold it against him if I didn't factor in how weak the ECF has been during his runs.

[illmaticone]

Again, I have him locked into that #11 spot. He cannot go lower. But if he doesn't win any more championships in the rest of his career, he is definitely not going to pass Hakeem in my eyes.

[r15mohd]

Of those players you listed, Duncan is 5/6, Magic is 5/9, Kobe is 5/7, and Bird is 3/5. I wouldn't hold it against him if I didn't factor in how weak the ECF has been during his runs.


logic is flawed with your mindset...the losses basically become irrelevant and additional stats/accolades become the adjacent measure to finalize the rank:

-Wilt has 2 titles and many losses, and is top 5. the losses didn't hurt him.
-Bird has 3 and 2 losses, yet ranked over Shaq with 4 and 1 loss? doesnt make sense if you take into consideration losses

you can hold conference weight to a degree, but then you have to decrease Magic's place from the 80s because he played in a sh!tty WC during their run, and very comparable to the East today

[Ne 1]

Hakeem. He was just a better player and his 1994/1995 championship runs are more impressive than LeBron's IMO. Hakeem is probably the best player of the past 25 years other than Jordan, in my opinion. He could carry your offense in the post, create looks for the shooters with his passing out of double teams, play effectively 15-20 feet from the basket if necessary by facing up and shooting or driving, and his defense was just unbelievable. Whether it was defending screen/rolls, blocking shots or even later, his post defense. He was the best defensive player of the past 30 years. His ability late in games offensively was rivaled only by Kareem among centers, and very few have had the ability to raise their play so consistently in big games, and this started even early in Hakeem's career (see 1986-1988 playoffs).

I go back and forth on some players, but while both Hakeem and LeBron are the best of the best, I really can't see a convincing argument to make me change my mind on this one. It's clear enough to me.

[LAZERUSS]

Lebron's resume has ALREADY surpassed Hakeem's. There is simply no argument. More MVPs, as many rings, as many FMVPs, more Finals, more overall team success. You name it, Lebron is ahead. Plain-and-simple.

In fact, I would argue that Moses was more dominant than Hakeem, as well. And if you include ABA Dr. J, he is also ahead of Hakeem.

Olajuwon is at best #11, and could be as low as #13.

Lebron also has a strong case over Bird, although I wouldn't take offense at those that rank Bird higher. IMHO, Bird's peak was SLIGHTLY better than LBJ's peak, but after that, Lebron hands down.

[HurricaneKid]

Lebron's resume has ALREADY surpassed Hakeem's. There is simply no argument. More MVPs, as many rings, as many FMVPs, more Finals, more overall team success. You name it, Lebron is ahead. Plain-and-simple.

In fact, I would argue that Moses was more dominant than Hakeem, as well. And if you include ABA Dr. J, he is also ahead of Hakeem.

Olajuwon is at best #11, and could be as low as #13.

Lebron also has a strong case over Bird, although I wouldn't take offense at those that rank Bird higher. IMHO, Bird's peak was SLIGHTLY better than LBJ's peak, but after that, Lebron hands down.

Yeah this is getting comical. Dream didn't win a single playoff series in his "prime" from 25 yrs old to 30 yrs old. And missed the playoffs altogether at least once. He got past the 1st round 6 times total.

He was obviously a great player but LBJ has been the best player in the league for the last 7 seasons and has made the Finals as many times as Dream won a playoff series. Plus he has better hardware (more MVPs, etc).

If you think Dream had a better career at this point your opinion doesn't carry much weight with me.

[Duncan21formvp]

Hakeem was clearly better. Hakeem actually beat top tier players in there primes/peaks. Lebron avoided that and only beat guys when they were 36+ years old or 23 years old and younger.

[LAZERUSS]

Hakeem was clearly better. Hakeem actually beat top tier players in there primes/peaks. Lebron avoided that and only beat guys when they were 36+ years old or 23 years old and younger.

Yep...he beat Ewing's undermanned Knicks team in a season in which the real best player in the league did not play (and his team went 55-27 without him, and narrowly lost a close and controversial seven game series against Ewing's Knicks)...

and then he got saved by his teammates in the '95 Finals, in a series in which a young Shaq outplayed him.

The rest of his post-season career...pretty much getting blown out in the first round. Oh, and he played on five teams that won 50+ games in his 18 season career, with a high of 58 wins. He didn't win with Drexler and Barkley as teammates (in fact, got swept in the second round), and then couldn't win with Barkley and Pippen.

[Rocketswin2013]

Hakeem is probably my favorite past era player ever, but LeBron is better. Peak is close, prime is more distant.

[Rocketswin2013]

Lebron's resume has ALREADY surpassed Hakeem's. There is simply no argument. More MVPs, as many rings, as many FMVPs, more Finals, more overall team success. You name it, Lebron is ahead. Plain-and-simple.

In fact, I would argue that Moses was more dominant than Hakeem, as well. And if you include ABA Dr. J, he is also ahead of Hakeem.

Olajuwon is at best #11, and could be as low as #13.

Lebron also has a strong case over Bird, although I wouldn't take offense at those that rank Bird higher. IMHO, Bird's peak was SLIGHTLY better than LBJ's peak, but after that, Lebron hands down.
And then you have a guy understating his greatness like this....

[LAZERUSS]

And then you have a guy understating his greatness like this....

So, I have Hakeem at anywhere from 11th to 13th, and I am UNDER-ESTIMATING him????

Go ahead and give me YOUR list then...

[Rocketswin2013]

So, I have Hakeem at anywhere from 11th to 13th, and I am UNDER-ESTIMATING him????

Go ahead and give me YOUR list then...
Actually, rereading your comment, it wasn't really that ridiculous. But I refuse to take any Moses Malone comparison seriously. That guy didn't play defense throughout most of his career until his team was stacked in the early 80's. Conjecture here, butif he quit on defense, I wouldn't be surprised if he was also a stat padder.

[LAZERUSS]

Actually, rereading your comment, it wasn't really that ridiculous. But I refuse to take any Moses Malone comparison seriously. That guy didn't play defense throughout most of his career until his team was stacked in the early 80's. Conjecture here, butif he quit on defense, I wouldn't be surprised if he was also a stat padder.

Well, I will give you Hakeem's defense, but think about this. In Hakeem's first season in which he led the NBA in rebounding, he was outrebounded in his seasonal H2H's by a way-past-his-prime Moses.

A peak Moses was more of a force at the offensive end, and was easily a more dominant rebounder.

BTW, Moses pounded a near-prime Kareem in their H2H's, while an old Kareem just murdered Hakeem in their's.

[rmt]

As far as Lebron is concerned, he's still #11 for me (Hakeem's runs were more impressive/much less help) until he wins another ring and FMVP. Then he'll leap-frog Hakeem and probably tie/pass Kobe.

[T_L_P]

Hakeem at #6

LeBron at #10

[LAZERUSS]

Hakeem at #6

LeBron at #10

Ok, let's see this list...

[pauk]

...........................LeBron................. .Hakeem.............
MVP........................4...................... ....1..................
FMVP......................2....................... ...2..................
RINGS......................2...................... ...2..................
1st All-NBA...............9..........................6.... ..............
1st All-Defensive.......5..........................5...... ............
All-Star...................11........................1 2.................
ROTY.....................Yes...................... .No.................
DPOY......................0....................... ..2.................
Best player in NBA......~8+ years..........~2 years..........
Finals/Conf. Champ.....6........................2.............. ....

STATS:

PPG.......................27.3.................... ...21.8....................
RPG........................7.1.................... ....11.1...................
APG........................6.9.................... .....2.5....................
SPG........................1.7.................... ......1.7...................
BPG.........................0.8................... .....3.1...................

PER...................27.7 (#2 all-time)..........23.6 (#16 all-time)....



NOTES:

Lebron is known as one of the most versatile allround players in NBA history (if not the most versatile ever) and also one of the greatest athletes in NBA history (if not the greatest), a triple double machine who can play/start/dominate from any position & defend almost all positions very well.... Magic was that versatile offensively, Pippen was that versatile defensively... Lebron has both things... and a better scoring ability...

At his position (SF) he is arguably the best ever, going by both resume & talent.... the only guy (Bird) who can challenge him there has an almost identical resume, but was somewhat of a lesser overall talent, they both have their cases offensively, but then comes defense....

Hakeem is known as as one of the best interior defenders in NBA history, offensively was a great scorer with probably the greatest post up game ever, great rebounder aswell.

At his position (C) he is ranked behind Bill Russell, Kareem Abdul Jabbar, Wilt Chamberlain & Shaquille O'Neal... and if you accept Tim Duncan as a Center......





CONCLUSION:


You tell me..........

[houston]

:roll: @ people love overrating hakeem legacy.

Lebron already better than that dude and he ain't even close to retiring yet.

In no order:
Jordan
Wilt
Magic
Bird
Lebron
Kobe
Duncan
Russell
Kareem
Shaq


Hakeem don't make the cut. Lebron impact on his teams is way superior.

[Kvnzhangyay]

Lebron #6, Hakeem #10

[sdot_thadon]

I love dream, but I got Lebron over him at this point. Has a similar resume of accolades with more mvps and if lebron played in a league with olajuwon he'd still be the best player in the league. It's getting time to recognize exactly what James has accomplished thus far.

[JohnFreeman]

Both top 10, LeBron bumped Kobe too 11

[24-Inch_Chrome]

Hakeem currently 9, LeBron is 10.

[G0ATbe]

Hakeem, not even close.

[Young X]

Bron. You can debate who had the better title runs between the 2 but Lebron has clearly been better than Hakeem outside of their 2 championship years.

He has 3 more MVP's & All NBA 1st team selections, better numbers and has played at a similar level at his peak. His resume is already better and he's only 30.

[iamgine]

These are locked top 9:

Lebron

Duncan, Shaq

MJ, Bird, Magic

Kareem

Wilt, Russell


Then Moses, Hakeem, Kobe can fight for the 10th spot.

[Lebron23]

Lebron James

Hakeem and Kobe are both tied at number 10. 10a and 10b.

[zoom17]

Lebron by a little but if he gets his 3rd ring he will widen the gap.

[Cold soul]

Lebron I have 9th one spot above Hakeem.

Peak: Hakeem

Prime: Lebron

[Dro]

Yeah, I got Lebron #10, Hakeem #11...

[NumberSix]

If LeBron retired today, anyone that thinks his current r

[Legends66NBA7]

[QUOTE=NumberSix]If LeBron retired today, anyone that thinks his current [B]r

[Cold soul]

Lebron to me is more athletic Oscar Robertson with Karl Malone body and high basketball IQ, passing ability, and touch of Magic Johnson on top of Scottie Pippen versatility on defense all rolled into one.

[AussieBaller99]

Its pretty even at the moment, but when it's all said and done for Bron I think he'll be ranked higher then Hakeem by most people

[NumberSix]

I see the french key glitch got you...
Actually not a glitch. I use

[LAZERUSS]

Lebron to me is more athletic Oscar Robertson with Karl Malone body and high basketball IQ, passing ability, and touch of Magic Johnson on top of Scottie Pippen versatility on defense all rolled into one.

The Lebron-haters won't like this post, but IMHO, it is pretty accurate.

BTW, I still have Magic ranked well ahead of him.

[Gotterdammerung]

It's probably too tough to decide the question when LBJ isn't finished playing and we are comparing him with one of the very greatest centers in NBA history.

Second, the question falls on the evaluative term "better". LBJ probably will end up with the greater career since he already has more MVPs and finals trips than Hakeem, but is he better? The Great center will always impact the game in more ways than a great swing man, even one as great as LBJ is. Hakeem is probably the better player but LBJ will have the greater career. :cheers:

[Duncan21formvp]

Hakeem. As long Lebron had to join forces with a proven champion to win. In fact joined 3 guys who won titles as the man (Ben Wallace in 2009, Shaq in 2010, Wade in 2011).

[72-10]

oh sh*t

[SamuraiSWISH]

LeBron but barely.

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

Hakeem was the better overall player

[Duncan21formvp]

Hakeem playing the same amount of series as the man on the team with no one who won league or finals mvp on his team won more titles than Lebron.

[SouBeachTalents]

Hakeem playing the same amount of series as the man on the team with no one who won league or finals mvp on his team won more titles than Lebron.
Won more than Duncan too

[Duncan21formvp]

Won more than Duncan too
Duncan has 5 titles and 3 finals mvp's. Only MJ has more playing the same amount of series and not playing with guys who won league/finals mvp's/rookie of the year.

[SouBeachTalents]

Duncan has 5 titles and 3 finals mvp's. Only MJ has more playing the same amount of series and not playing with guys who won league/finals mvp's/rookie of the year.
Robinson was an MVP. Parker & Kawhi were FMVP's. Duncan's never won a title without either of them

[Duncan21formvp]

Robinson was an MVP. Parker & Kawhi were FMVP's. Duncan's never won a title without either of them
None of them won league mvp or finals mvp on a team Duncan was on before Duncan won the title on a team that won the title. Prove me wrong!

[Mr.GOAT2408]

Definitely Hakeem, a top 10 player with a weak argument for top 5

LeBron is top 20 at best after this disaster of a season :facepalm he needs to redeem himself like Hakeem did after missing the playoffs in prime for this to ever be a serious debate