If u value playoffs more whats Wilts argument against Jerry West and even Oscar?

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

Its like it a sure thing that Russell and Wilt were the best of their era.........Russells impact and success is clearly seen but why should Wilt be ranked above the 2 guards?

[DFish24]

Most people rank Wilt so high because of his regular season records. Come playoff time the dude was a big choker/underachiever. I wouldn't have a problem if someone wanted to rank West or Oscar over Wilt.

[navy]

Because he was a better player in his prime. Say what you want about Wilt, but this is a guy with 100 point games and 50 rebound games. Had a season where he averaged 24/24/8(?) on route to a championship or something like that.

[Sarcastic]

Because when you open the record book, his name is plastered all over, and there is no chance of anyone breaking some of his records.

[Spurs5Rings2014]

Because when you open the record book, his name is plastered all over, and there is no chance of anyone breaking some of his records.

Weak era.

[LAZERUSS]

Weak era.

:roll: :roll: :roll:

Take a look at the '03 Nets roster...you know, the team that Duncan's Spours struggled against in the FINALS, and tell me that wasn't the worst roster ever to make a Finals. (BTW, don't use a 36 year old Mutombo, who played in half of their playoff games, and averaged 2 ppg and 2 rpg, as an example, either.)

[LAZERUSS]

Most people rank Wilt so high because of his regular season records. Come playoff time the dude was a big choker/underachiever. I wouldn't have a problem if someone wanted to rank West or Oscar over Wilt.

Yep, how about Wilt the "choker"...

This from a topic on Wilt's scoring in the post-season...


Ok, now pull up the FOUR post-season runs of 33.2 ppg, 34.7 ppg, 35.0 ppg, and 37.0 ppg. And while you are at it, give me the post-season series in which Parker averaged 30 ppg, 31 ppg, 34 ppg, 35 ppg, 37 ppg, 37 ppg, 39 ppg and 39 ppg. Oh, and please list the 13 games of 40+, including games of 50, 50, 53, and 56 points (and the ONLY three in "must-win" playoff games.) As well as a 45 point game in a Finals "must win" game.

BTW, while you are looking up Parker's numbers, let me know how many times Kareem, Shaq, Duncan, Kobe, Bird, and Hakeem accomplished the above feats.

And BTW, please list the 26 playoff series in which Parker averaged 20+ rpg, including series (against Russell BTW), of 30 rpg, 31 rpg, and 32 rpg. Hell, please list the post-seasons in which Parker, the PG, led the NBA in apg.

And we now KNOW that Chamberlain blocked 591 shots in the known 81 of his 160 playoff games. Please list Parker's block totals while you are at.

In fact, and again, please list Kareem's, Shaq's, Duncan's, Kobe's, Bird's, and Hakeem's post-season rebounding and shot-blocking marks which compare with Wilt's.


Thanks for playing...


And another one in a topic of "at the limit" games in the playoffs...


Wilt in his 11 "at the limit elimination" games...as well as his starting opposing center's numbers...

Wilt:

133-229 FG/FGA
.581 FG%
63-140 FT/FTA
.450 FT%
.550 TS%
299 Rebs
27.2 rpg
39 ast (10 known games)
3.9 apg
30 blks (4 known games)
7.5 bpg
329 pts
29.9 ppg
6-5 W-L

Starting Opposing Centers:

37-87 FG/FGA (8 known games)
.425 FG%
24-35 FT/FTA
.686 FT%
.469 TS%
130 Rebs (8 known games)
16.3 rpg
32 ast (8 known games)
4.0 apg
128 pts
11.6 ppg
5-6 W-L

So Wilt was basically a 30-27-4-8 .550 TS% (in post-season NBA's that shot about a .480 TS% in that same span) player in his "at the limit elimination" games. All while slaughtering his opposing centers.


And here is a prime "scoring" Wilt's numbers in his 5 "at the limit elimination" games, as well as his starting opposing center's numbers...

Wilt:

84-149 FG/FGA
.564 FG%
32-66 FT/FTA
.485 FT%
.549 TS%
141 Rebs
28.2 rpg
8 asts (4 known games)
2.0 apg
11 blks (2 known games)
5.5 bpg
200 pts
40.0 ppg
3-2 W-L

Starting Opposing Center's numbers:

26-64 FG/FGA
.406 FG%
11-13 FT/FTA
.846 FT%
.447 TS%
70 Rebs (4 known games)
17.5 rpg
16 asts (4 known games)
4.0 apg
71 pts
14.2 ppg
2-3 W-L

So a "scoring" Chamberlain was basically a 40-28-2-6 .550 TS% (in post-seasons that shot about a TS% of .460) player in his "at the limit elimination" games...all while just obliterating his opposing starting centers.

BTW, if you add up Wilt's points in those 11 games (329), and then add up his regular season scoring averages in those same seasons, it comes to 343 (38, 50, 50, 37, 35, 24, 21, 27, 27, 21, and 13.) So, Chamberlain basically equaled his regular season scoring average in those 11 games (29.9 ppg vs 31.2 ppg)...and on a considerably higher FG% than his regular season FG% in that same span.


And for those that just want game seven's...

Wilt played in nine of them, and his team went 4-5.

He averaged 24.4 ppg, 26.7 rpg, 4.1 apg, 7.5 bpg, .626 FG%, .451 FT%, and a .579 TS%. BTW, that .626 FG% is easily the highest of a "GOAT" candidate.


Yep...Wilt "the choker"...

Compare the above with Kareem's resume in the same situations...


Kareem in his 8 "at the limit elimination" games:

23.3 ppg
11.3 rpg
3.5 apg
.513 FG%
.694 FT%
.539 TS%
4-4 W-L

In his 6 game seven's...

20.5 ppg
10.2 rpg
3.5 apg
.505 FG%
.697 FT%
.532 TS%
4-2 W-L


And finally, how about this...


Wilt actually played in 37 "elimination games",...games where either his team faced elimination, or could have clinched the series:

1. W: 53-22-2, 24-42 FG/FGA

2. W: 50-35-2, 22-42

3. L: 26-24-0, 8-18

4. L: 33-23-1, 13-29

5. W: 56-35-1, 22-48

6. W: 32-21-1, 12-29

7. L: 22-22-3, 7-15

8. W: 39-30-?, 19-29

9. L: 30-27-2, 12-28

10. W: 38-26-5, 14-22, 10 blks (Triple-Double)

11. W: 30-26-4, 13-22, 13 blks (Triple-Double)

12. L: 30-32-2, 12-15

13. L: 46-34-?, 19-34

14. W: 18-27-9, 7-14

15. W: 29-36-13, 10-16, 7 blks (Triple-Double)

16. W: 24-23-4, 8-13

17. W: 25-27-3, 10-19

18. L: 28-30-7, 11-21

19. L: 20-27-8, 6-21

20. L: 14-34-5, 4-9

21. W: 11-25-1, 5-9

22. W: 16-29-3, 5-11, 16 blks (Triple-Double)

23. L: 8-18-4, 1-5

24. L: 18-27-3, 7-8

25. W: 36-14-3, 12-20

26. W: 12-26-11, 4-11, 11 blks (Quad-Double)

27. W: 30-27-6, 11-18, 11 blks (Triple-Double)

28. W: 45-27-3, 20-27

29. L: 21-24-4, 10-16

30. W: 25-19-9, 7-12

31. L: 23-12-4, 10-21

32. W: 8-31-8, 4-6

33. W: 20-24-2, 8-12, 10 blks (Triple-Double)

34. W: 24-29-4, 10-14, 8 blks

35. W: 21-28-4, 10-17, 8 blks

36. W: 5-22-7, 2-2

37. L: 23-21-3, 9-16


W-L : 24-13

Here were Wilt's averages in those 37 games:

29.5 ppg

26.1 rpg

4.2 apg (missing one game)

.546 FG% (in post-seasons that shot about .440 on average in that span.)

Keep in mind that 24 of those 37 games came after his "scoring seasons" (59-60 thru 65-66)

[KembaWalker]

http://static.fjcdn.com/gifs/Didn_6a9c64_2096351.gif

[NZStreetBaller]

oh goody a history lesson !!! i need one of these.

Q.What do lebron stans and wilt stans have in common?

A.they both state their cases like this

23/34/53/23/23/4/24/43/3/3/32/3/23/2/4/23/2/3/23/2332/3/65/5/67/6/7878/9/0/89/8/75/6/3/4/231/2/13/35/4/6/768//79/867/5/654//23/1/324345/657/6/87/565/45/65//7/6/4/5/34/5/6//567/6/45//2/31/2/34/5/567/7/9/0

Q.what does lebron and wilt have in common

A.2/6

[LAZERUSS]

oh goody a history lesson !!! i need one of these.

Q.What do lebron stans and wilt stans have in common?

A.they both state their cases like this

23/34/53/23/23/4/24/43/3/3/32/3/23/2/4/23/2/3/23/2332/3/65/5/67/6/7878/9/0/89/8/75/6/3/4/231/2/13/35/4/6/768//79/867/5/654//23/1/324345/657/6/87/565/45/65//7/6/4/5/34/5/6//567/6/45//2/31/2/34/5/567/7/9/0

Q.what does lebron and wilt have in common

A.2/6

Here's a much better perspective...

None other than John Wooden claimed that had Wilt and Russell swapped rosters, and coaches, and it would have been Wilt holding all those rings.

I wonder where Wilt would rank with 11 rings.

[NZStreetBaller]

Here's a much better perspective...

None other than John Wooden claimed that had Wilt and Russell swapped rosters, and coaches, and it would have been Wilt holding all those rings.

I wonder where Wilt would rank with 11 rings.

possibly would've been goat.... its amazing how certain circumstances put people in their place though right.

[LAZERUSS]

possibly would've been goat.... its amazing how certain circumstances put people in their place though right.

Let me ask you this...

how come MJ couldn't beat Bird in even one game in their back-to-back playoff series in '86 and '87?

And don't give me the excuse of rosters, either, since Wilt took last place rosters to game seven losses, by margins of 2 and 1 point, to 60+ win Celtic teams in '62 and '65. In series in which Chamberlain averaged 34-27 and 30-31.

[NZStreetBaller]

Let me ask you this...

how come MJ couldn't beat Bird in even one game in their back-to-back playoff series in '86 and '87?

And don't give me the excuse of rosters, either, since Wilt took last place rosters to game seven losses, by margins of 2 and 1 point, to 60+ win Celtic teams in '62 and '65. In series in which Chamberlain averaged 34-27 and 30-31.

because during those series between MJ and Bird. Bird was the better player..... duh. if you dont want the roster excuse.

[Psileas]

If u value playoffs more whats Wilts argument against Jerry West and even Oscar?

That he was still simply a better, more dominant player maybe...? :confusedshrug:
Oh, plus, the "rings" argument obviously favors Wilt.
Oscar? Are you kidding me? If you value playoffs more, Wilt's distance from Oscar increases even more, not the other way round.

[LAZERUSS]

because during those series between MJ and Bird. Bird was the better player..... duh. if you dont want the roster excuse.

Even if we were to concede Bird being a better player, (and BTW, I'm sure that even Bird would have argued with you at that point), how about Dumars going 3-1 against Bird in their four playoff series H2H's?

[LAZERUSS]

That he was still simply a better, more dominant player maybe...? :confusedshrug:
Oscar? Are you kidding me? If you value playoffs more, Wilt's distance from Oscar increases even more, not the other way round.

Especially when you factor in that Wilt went 2-0 ( 6-2 in games) against Oscar in the playoffs in their primes, and overall, a 3-1 playoff series advantage in their four playoff series H2H's.

Unfortunately for Wilt, he never got the opportunity to face West's teams in the post-season, or as we both know, he would surely own the lion's share of playoff scoring records.

[NZStreetBaller]

Even if we were to concede Bird being a better player, (and BTW, I'm sure that even Bird would have argued with you at that point), how about Dumars going 3-1 against Bird in their four playoff series H2H's?

well see there is multiple circumstances that determine Victory and losses....

I would've said roster because the bulls were nothing compared to that awesome celtic team.

but you didnt want to hear that. so i said bird was better then MJ and it seems as though you cant accept that either.

Well what in the world is your take on it???

if it wasnt the team or the main guy. coaching staff ??? team style??

So much of this stuff matters. Team Chemistry teams current mental state injurys. HCA? what are you looking for exactly??

[LAZERUSS]

well see there is multiple circumstances that determine Victory and losses....

I would've said roster because the bulls were nothing compared to that awesome celtic team.

but you didnt want to hear that. so i said bird was better then MJ and it seems as though you cant accept that either.

Well what in the world is your take on it???

if it wasnt the team or the main guy. coaching staff ??? team style??

So much of this stuff matters. Team Chemistry teams current mental state injurys. HCA? what are you looking for exactly??

There's your answer.

Not only that, but you have to take the OPPOSING team's roster into account as well.

Which pretty much explains Wilt's 1-7 against Russell's TEAMs in their eight post-season series H2H's.

[NZStreetBaller]

There's your answer.

Not only that, but you have to take the OPPOSING team's roster into account as well.

Which pretty much explains Wilt's 1-7 against Russell's TEAMs in their eight post-season series H2H's.

so why wasnt i allowed to use roster as an excuse for bird beating MJ then ??

and you're trying to utilize wilts stats and russells team as leverage for Wilt > Russell.

[iamgine]

Its like it a sure thing that Russell and Wilt were the best of their era.........Russells impact and success is clearly seen but why should Wilt be ranked above the 2 guards?
Um because he was a better player than both of them?

http://cdn.meme.am/instances/45069827.jpg

[LAZERUSS]

so why wasnt i allowed to use roster as an excuse for bird beating MJ then ??

and you're trying to utilize wilts stats and russells team as leverage for Wilt > Russell.

I was merely pointing out that if MJ were given a free pass for losing to Bird's Celtics, because of rosters, then, Wilt should have been given a free pass in at least six, if not all seven, of his playoff series losses to Russell's Celtics.

As far as "stats" go, forget them. In their H2H's, Wilt was Russell's equal at the defensive end, a much greater rebounder, a better passer, and a far greater force at the offensive end.