Where would you rank Michael Jordan if he won 2/6 Finals?

[Eric Cartman]

Still GOAT? Top 5? Top 10?

Discuss, peasants.

[Alamо]

We probably wouldn't be discussing him right now

[BigBoss]

Didn't happen so why bother.

LeBron on the other hand..

[JohnFreeman]

Still top 10, considering rings are won by teams

[Eric Cartman]

So, fringe top 10?

Like Jerry West/Oscar Robertson level?

[The_Pharcyde]

We would probably look at his as one of the most exciting players ever, but never put him up with the Russell's, magics and birds because he didn't have the same success

A lot of people always like to say it's not all rings when others bring up Jordan's 6/6 on the highest stage... But they forget he has absolutely absurd numbers to go with them.
So whether you look at individual success or team success, Jordan comes out on on top

[ClipperRevival]

Top 10 for sure because he would still be the most prolific scorer in history along with being a great defender.

[Rocketswin2013]

It would depend on when he lost. Those second three peat rosters were stacked.

[Kvnzhangyay]

Top 3 if he still put up the GOAT stats

[ClipperRevival]

Actually, I think he would rank higher given the fact that he has 5 regular season MVPs. Probably in the 6-8 range.

[AceManIII]

Definitely not GOAT status...

[pauk]

Considering that would mean he would lose 4 times with arguably the greatest team of all time (and coach) against a worse team in the playoffs... it would be hellava disappointing....

Except for that this is to his resume exactly the same as:

"Where would you rank Michael Jordan if he won 2/2 Finals"

Except that would mean he went to the Finals/won Conf. Championship 4 less times.... maybe even missed the playoffs / losed in 1st round instead of that aswell.... ouch, which is much worse.... HENCE:

I would rank him being 2/6 higher than if he was 2/2.......

I would rank him being 2/10 higher than if he was 2/6 or 2/2....

I would rank him being 2/15 higher than if he was 2/10 or 2/6 or 2/2.....

So unfortunately your "X of X in Finals" logic still gets exposed yet again....

As far as where i would rank him generally.... well, considering he would with 2 fmvps, 2 rings & 6 Finals appearances/conf. championships still also have:

5 x MVP
1 x DPOY
ROTY
10 x 1st All-NBA
9 x 1st All-Defensive
14 x All-Star
10 x Scoring Champion

and so on.... and he would still be the same talent/skill and same dominant, impactful, stat stuffer and so on, which means he would still be known as the most talented/skilled player i have ever seen and arguably the most productive player i have ever seen.... and he would still be the pioneer he was, what he meant & did for the NBA Basketball on a global scale....


Still top 10... probably Top 6....

[ArbitraryWater]

Well if he'd be in LeBron's spot?

He'd be 3/6, losing in 2007, 2014, 2015, winning 2011-2013

How does anyone see this any other way?

Still GOAT

[ClipperRevival]

Considering that would mean he would lose 4 times with arguably the greatest team of all time (and coach) against a worse team in the playoffs... it would be hellava disappointing....

Except for that this is to his resume exactly the same as:

"Where would you rank Michael Jordan if he won 2/2 Finals"

Except that would mean he went to the Finals/won Conf. Championship 4 less times.... maybe even missed the playoffs / losed in 1st round instead of that aswell.... ouch, which is much worse.... HENCE:

I would rank him being 2/6 higher than if he was 2/2.......

I would rank him being 2/10 higher than if he was 2/6 or 2/2....

I would rank him being 2/15 higher than if he was 2/10 or 2/6 or 2/2.....

So unfortunately your "X of X in Finals" logic still gets exposed yet again....

As far as where i would rank him generally.... well, considering he would with 2 fmvps, 2 rings & 6 Finals appearances/conf. championships still also have:

5 x MVP
1 x DPOY
ROTY
10 x 1st All-NBA
9 x 1st All-Defensive
14 x All-Star
10 x Scoring Champion

and so on.... and he would still be the same talent/skill and same dominant, impactful, stat stuffer and so on, which means he would still be known as the most talented/skilled player i have ever seen and arguably the most productive player i have ever seen.... and he would still be the pioneer he was, what he meant & did for the NBA Basketball on a global scale....


Still top 10... probably Top 6....

I'm not so sure about your argument about being ranked higher the more you make the finals despite losing. It all comes down to how you got there.

Did the player carry a very inferior team to the finals? If so, yes, it carries weight. Like LeBron losing this year to GSW can't be counted against him. Or how about MJ starting out without much help and not making the finals because he went up against all time great teams in the Pistons and Celtics. Should that be counted against him for not making the finals? I don't think so.

On the flipside, did the player have the proper supporting cast and was supposed to make the finals and win but lost? That's a huge negative.

So your argument is too general for me. Making a lot of finals and continuing to lose isn't always a good thing.

[Levity]

If MJ went 2/6, do you think Bugs and company still beckon for his help? Or would they got the Magic/Bird route, instead?

[nba_55]

It would depend on when he lost. Those second three peat rosters were stacked.

the 1st 3peat rosters were also stacked

[diamenz]

the 1st 3peat rosters were also stacked

stacked in a sense. that team grew together and earned their keep.

second three peat bulls i'd label as stacked.

[MP.Trey]

About where we rank LeBron. 8-12 area

[MavsSuperFan]

Considering that would mean he would lose 4 times with arguably the greatest team of all time (and coach) against a worse team in the playoffs... it would be hellava disappointing....

Except for that this is to his resume exactly the same as:

"Where would you rank Michael Jordan if he won 2/2 Finals"

Except that would mean he went to the Finals/won Conf. Championship 4 less times.... maybe even missed the playoffs / losed in 1st round instead of that aswell.... ouch, which is much worse.... HENCE:

I would rank him being 2/6 higher than if he was 2/2.......

I would rank him being 2/10 higher than if he was 2/6 or 2/2....

I would rank him being 2/15 higher than if he was 2/10 or 2/6 or 2/2.....

So unfortunately your "X of X in Finals" logic still gets exposed yet again....

As far as where i would rank him generally.... well, considering he would with 2 fmvps, 2 rings & 6 Finals appearances/conf. championships still also have:

5 x MVP
1 x DPOY
ROTY
10 x 1st All-NBA
9 x 1st All-Defensive
14 x All-Star
10 x Scoring Champion

and so on.... and he would still be the same talent/skill and same dominant, impactful, stat stuffer and so on, which means he would still be known as the most talented/skilled player i have ever seen and arguably the most productive player i have ever seen.... and he would still be the pioneer he was, what he meant & did for the NBA Basketball on a global scale....


Still top 10... probably Top 6....

Lebron has benefited from playing in the east. He probably makes it to 2 finals if he spent his career in the west. People hold Lebron's finals losses against him because of how they occurred and because the road to the finals in the east is super easy compared to the west.

[ImKobe]

That means he would have a Hakeem-esque career with more scoring titles, basically. That means Kareem, Magic, Bird, Kobe, Shaq, Duncan would have clear cases over him in terms of accolades and being winners.

Wilt had crazy numbers too, no one cares because he barely won anything. Say Jordan won b2b in 92 and 93 and never rang again, 98 Finals Game 6 shot doesn't happen, he doesn't have the same kind of following, the legend that really carries his legacy.

[nzahir]

Top 2-3. He was 1-9 before pippen but do you think any of this stupid trolling stuff matters? Players put up numbers; TEAMS win games and rings. This is why jordan kept losing to the pistons until the bulls grew and got better and more talent

[f0und]

the 1st 3peat rosters were also stacked

how was that 1st 3peat team stacked? there was pippen who was just starting to come to his own. and the rest were role players.

[Legends66NBA7]

the 1st 3peat rosters were also stacked

That would be the 2nd peat rosters. The 1st peat rosters were not.

[Geh]

I have to wonder if there is a conspiracy theory out there that David Stern orchestrated the two 3-peats in order to boost the NBA's popularity to get more money.

[ClipperRevival]

how was that 1st 3peat team stacked? there was pippen who was just starting to come to his own. and the rest were role players.

Oh darn, you just offended the great Cartwright, Armstrong and Paxson.

[greymatter]

Given that his teams were strong favorites in 4 of six, slight favorite in 1
(98 Jazz), and about even in the other (93 Suns), going 2/6 would have been considered a choke job for his teams.

He'd have been ranked anywhere from 5-8.

[plowking]

Anywhere from 1-3, still. He was getting GOAT talks even after his first championship.

[DFish24]

Outside the Top 10 like Bran.

[scandisk_]

Anywhere from 1-3, still. He was getting GOAT talks even after his first championship.

And none of that would matter a decade or two later.

on topic prolly on 7-10 range

[9erempiree]

To be honest he wouldn't be in the conversation. He would be borderline top 10.

He is who he is because he was synonymous to winning and his legacy was built on those titles. If he only won two out of 6 tries, that would make him a loser and nobody would be talking about him like they do now.

[Alamо]

If MJ went 2/6, do you think Bugs and company still beckon for his help? Or would they got the Magic/Bird route, instead?


The fate of the earth would be doomed.

[houston]

top ten still

[plowking]

And none of that would matter a decade or two later.

on topic prolly on 7-10 range

It would. Just because he didn't win, doesn't mean we're blind and can't see that he is clearly better than players people are trying to rate above him.

There is so much circumstantial elements and luck that come into winning a championship as well as just supreme, elite skill of a team/player.
If Jordan plays the same way in all those finals and his team loses, does he really become a lesser player than Magic or Kobe? Hell no. We're not blind. We can see he is the better player.

Jerry West doesn't make that many finals by accident. Circumstance had it that he doesn't win hardly any of them. Doesn't make him any less of a player due to it.

[BlakFrankWhite]

If he had won 5 MVP's,2 FMVP's and 2 rings.....along with 10 scoring titles

That's still top 5

[ClipperRevival]

It would. Just because he didn't win, doesn't mean we're blind and can't see that he is clearly better than players people are trying to rate above him.

There is so much circumstantial elements and luck that come into winning a championship as well as just supreme, elite skill of a team/player.
If Jordan plays the same way in all those finals and his team loses, does he really become a lesser player than Magic or Kobe? Hell no. We're not blind. We can see he is the better player.

Jerry West doesn't make that many finals by accident. Circumstance had it that he doesn't win hardly any of them. Doesn't make him any less of a player due to it.

I kind of see what you're saying but at the same time, they actually play the games. You suit up and compete and write your own destiny. And the best thing about basketball is that one player can impact the game immensely. The great ones can impose their will on the game. And it's not a coincidence that the all time greats all won multiple championships and had great playoff runs. When it counted most, they imposed their will on the game and impacted the outcome of games.

[bdreason]

Probably in the 7-10 range.

[bdreason]

Jerry West doesn't make that many finals by accident. Circumstance had it that he doesn't win hardly any of them. Doesn't make him any less of a player due to it.


Actually, it kind of does. If Jerry West had 9 titles, he'd be talked about as a top 5 GOAT candidate.

[Sarcastic]

He'd be in a similar position to Wilt. All time great stats, but without the rings to back it up to be GOAT.

[Marchesk]

Actually, it kind of does. If Jerry West had 9 titles, he'd be talked about as a top 5 GOAT candidate.

Did West underachieve in his nine finals, or cost his team the title?

[Marchesk]

But what if Jordan had the same finals averages and still hit big shots, but it wasn't enough against four of his finals opponents?

[Kvnzhangyay]

But what if Jordan had the same finals averages and still hit big shots, but it wasn't enough against four of his finals opponents?

Then at most his ranking drops 2 spots, most likely one

[warriorfan]

If MJ went 2/6 he would be considered a rich man's Tracy McGrady

[scandisk_]

But what if Jordan had the same finals averages and still hit big shots, but it wasn't enough against four of his finals opponents?

You can almost hear the selfish rants. Top 5 at best and I'm being generous.

[Kobe_6/8]

We would all think he is an incompetent loser.

When you're 6/6 you can be a jerk like MJ, but if you're 2/6 people will think you're all bark & no bite.

He'd be ranked around Charles Barkley.

[dannywpt]

In the 2-6 range

[DetroitPistonFan]

Magic went 5/9 and Kareem went 6/11. Where do they rank?

[scandisk_]

Magic went 5/9 and Kareem went 6/11. Where do they rank?

5 and 6 vs 2

you do the math

[pauk]

It would. Just because he didn't win, doesn't mean we're blind and can't see that he is clearly better than players people are trying to rate above him.

There is so much circumstantial elements and luck that come into winning a championship as well as just supreme, elite skill of a team/player.
If Jordan plays the same way in all those finals and his team loses, does he really become a lesser player than Magic or Kobe? Hell no. We're not blind. We can see he is the better player.

Jerry West doesn't make that many finals by accident. Circumstance had it that he doesn't win hardly any of them. Doesn't make him any less of a player due to it.

:applause:

[sekachu]

Considering that would mean he would lose 4 times with arguably the greatest team of all time (and coach) against a worse team in the playoffs... it would be hellava disappointing....

Except for that this is to his resume exactly the same as:

"Where would you rank Michael Jordan if he won 2/2 Finals"

Except that would mean he went to the Finals/won Conf. Championship 4 less times.... maybe even missed the playoffs / losed in 1st round instead of that aswell.... ouch, which is much worse.... HENCE:

I would rank him being 2/6 higher than if he was 2/2.......

I would rank him being 2/10 higher than if he was 2/6 or 2/2....

I would rank him being 2/15 higher than if he was 2/10 or 2/6 or 2/2.....

So unfortunately your "X of X in Finals" logic still gets exposed yet again....

As far as where i would rank him generally.... well, considering he would with 2 fmvps, 2 rings & 6 Finals appearances/conf. championships still also have:

5 x MVP
1 x DPOY
ROTY
10 x 1st All-NBA
9 x 1st All-Defensive
14 x All-Star
10 x Scoring Champion

and so on.... and he would still be the same talent/skill and same dominant, impactful, stat stuffer and so on, which means he would still be known as the most talented/skilled player i have ever seen and arguably the most productive player i have ever seen.... and he would still be the pioneer he was, what he meant & did for the NBA Basketball on a global scale....


Still top 10... probably Top 6....



Wait, if MJ lost 4 final, it wouldn't be established to call the bulls and Phi Jackson greatest?