That KLove/Wiggins trade most likely killed a dynasty

[TheMan]

Can you imagine a duo of dynamic young scorers backing up LeBron? He could've sat back and collected dem rings as Irving and Wiggins hit their prime. Instead, they traded their future for a shot at a title now. KLove is more easily replaceable, TT gets you those boards and three point shooting especialists aren't that hard to find. What is hard to find is dynamic scorers, and if they had AW (most likely he'd be a bench player his rookie season), he could've provided that as a starter with KI done in these Finals.

As I said back then and I'll say it again, Wiggins gon' be a legit NBA top 5 player down the road, kid is a stud. Horrible trade Cleveland, that trio would've been filthy for years to come.

[JerrySeinfeld]

LeGM didn't work the first time around, not sure why they'd try it again.

[J Shuttlesworth]

You have LeBron in his prime right now... every year, he will get older and less athletic.

You have to capitalize on that right away by getting great players on the team opposed to waiting for players to develop. Love was putting up 17/10 and the Cavs were 37-8 in the latter half of the season when LeBron was healthy.

Freak injuries have ruined their chances at a ring this year, not the trade. In an alternate universe, the Cavs have Wiggins and maybe Olynyk pulls his shoulder out instead. You can't use injuries to say "Welp, told ya so"

[ClipperRevival]

In hindsight, that trade was a terrible idea. I thought it was a bad idea when it happened but most experts thought it made sense. Yes, Wiggins hitting his prime with prime Kyrie and still with a devastating Lebron would've been deadly. Not to mention that Rodman wanna-be in Tristan. That guy is a monster down low. Outplayed Green for 90% of game 1.

[JerrySeinfeld]

You have LeBron in his prime right now... every year, he will get older and less athletic.

Yeah, and every year Wiggins will only get better and better which would have accounted for that... Thats the point of not trading him away. Especially when you already have Tristan Thompson who Cleveland has looked just as good if not better with than Love anyways.

[J Shuttlesworth]

Yeah, and every year Wiggins will only get better and better... Thats the point of not trading him away. Especially when you already have Tristan Thompson who Cleveland has looked just as good if not better with anyways.
Wiggins will still take a few years to become as effective as what Love was doing with the Cavs this year.

Last year, KLove played on the same team Wiggins is currently on, and put up 24/13.

With Love and LeBron healthy, the Cavs had a better record than the Warriors once LeBron returned. You have to remember that as LeBron declines, Love will still be in his prime, and Kyrie will be entering it.

[JerrySeinfeld]

Wiggins will still take a few years to become as effective as what Love was doing with the Cavs this year.

Last year, KLove played on the same team Wiggins is currently on, and put up 24/13.

With Love and LeBron healthy, the Cavs had a better record than the Warriors once LeBron returned. You have to remember that as LeBron declines, Love will still be in his prime, and Kyrie will be entering it.

I guess I don't see what Love was doing as that effective at all (especially when getting paid the max just to spot up on the 3pt line) considering that they have Tristan Thompson who has played like a beast in the PO's

[Prometheus]

:biggums:

If they can stay healthy for a few years, the Cavaliers may become a dynasty as they are.

[Dave3]

One simple question. How many guys drafted drafted 11 years apart formed a dynasty?

Answer: once, with Kareem/Magic, and Magic was so NBA ready he won fMVP in his rookie year. Wiggins won't reach that level for at least 3 more years.

[Legends66NBA7]

The red flag was always going to be the injuries between Love and Irving, but you still make the trade.

Wiggins, who knows if he'll better than either Love or Irving at their best. He wouldn't have developed right away. Bennett is garbage and a waste of a pick.

[TheMan]

You have LeBron in his prime right now... every year, he will get older and less athletic.

You have to capitalize on that right away by getting great players on the team opposed to waiting for players to develop. Love was putting up 17/10 and the Cavs were 37-8 in the latter half of the season when LeBron was healthy.

Freak injuries have ruined their chances at a ring this year, not the trade. In an alternate universe, the Cavs have Wiggins and maybe Olynyk pulls his shoulder out instead. You can't use injuries to say "Welp, told ya so"
But it's not like LeBron is gonna hit a wall and start sucking immediately. He could be a very good player for another 5 years easily. He's already won two titles as the main guy, he could've positioned himself al

[J Shuttlesworth]

I guess I don't see what Love was doing as that effective at all (especially when getting paid the max just to spot up on the 3pt line) considering that they have Tristan Thompson who has played like a beast in the PO's
If you actually watched Love play, you'd notice towards the end of the regular season and playoffs, he was posting up a good bit and getting some good passes out of the post. The idea that Love is just a spot up shooter was a giant myth. He was a versatile scorer, and great rebounder. His problems were defensive, but when Mozgov joined the team, most of his problems were covered up.

[J Shuttlesworth]

[QUOTE=TheMan]But it's not like LeBron is gonna hit a wall and start sucking immediately. He could be a very good player for another 5 years easily. He's already won two titles as the main guy, he could've positioned himself al

[Dave3]

If you actually watched Love play, you'd notice towards the end of the regular season and playoffs, he was posting up a good bit and getting some good passes out of the post. The idea that Love is just a spot up shooter was a giant myth. He was a versatile scorer, and great rebounder. His problems were defensive, but when Mozgov joined the team, most of his problems were covered up.
The Cavs were like 29-3 with Kyrie/Love/LeBron all playing after the trade. People trying to use the pre trade team to put down Kevin Love's effect.

[NBAplayoffs2001]

Horrible horrible trade. But Wiggins wouldn't be averaging more than 12-15 ppg on the Cavs throughout the regular season.

[TheMan]

One simple question. How many guys drafted drafted 11 years apart formed a dynasty?

Answer: once, with Kareem/Magic, and Magic was so NBA ready he won fMVP in his rookie year. Wiggins won't reach that level for at least 3 more years.
KAJ and Magic :confusedshrug:

Obviously I'm not saying Wiggins = Magic but a really good young scorer would've helped LeBron in these Finals after KI's injury. A healthy KI, even with Love out, would've given the Cavs a legit chance. I was picking Cleveland to win these Finals up until KI was declared done.

[Blue&Orange]

You have to remember that as LeBron declines, Love will still be in his prime, and Kyrie will be entering it.
In his prime but not with the cavs.

[Dave3]

KAJ and Magic :confusedshrug:

Obviously I'm not saying Wiggins = Magic but a really good young scorer would've helped LeBron in these Finals after KI's injury. A healthy KI, even with Love out, would've given the Cavs a legit chance. I was picking Cleveland to win these Finals up until KI was declared done.
Which is exactly what I said and explained - Magic as a rookie is head and shoulders more impactful than Wiggins as a rookie. On this team right now, Wiggins wouldn't add very much. Not to mention if Love was healthy it wouldn't even be close. This argument is so weak that even in hindsight, it's close.

[SwishSquared]

I don't think that they would have had a better shot to get through the RS and playoffs with Wiggins. Granted, he'd have helped theoretically past the first round, given Love's injury.

Pretty sure though that Wiggins, by net rating, wasn't even an averagely impactful player this year. I still think he'll hit super-stardom in a couple years, but the timing was way off with LBJ back in town. As Shuttlesworth said, Love was starting to hit a nice groove right until he got hurt. Wiggins is still figuring out how to play NBA ball. He probably would struggle in a Finals right now.

Now, I thought CLE gave up too much to acquire Love, but that's an entirely different discussion altogether...A healthy Cavs team seriously could have won the title this year. You usually go for those odds instead of trying to develop young talent en route to a title.

[greymatter]

If the OP at least waited to see if Wiggins actually develops into an all-star before posting this nonsense, he'd at least not look like a complete imbecile.

By all accounts, Wiggins lacked mental toughness in college. His game is still fairly raw. No one knows if he'll evolve into a Tmac hybrid or just a crappier, lankier version of Glenn Robinson.

[I<3NBA]

Wiggins is not a transcendental star. when Lebron came on the Cavs, he immediately had an impact so much so that the Cavs stopped being in the lottery immediately.

trade was good because it brought Lebron James back. that's all that could be said, really.

[JohnFreeman]

Wiggins was not that great, let's be honest

[greymatter]

Note:

If you've not heard of Glenn Robinson, it's because you weren't even a mistake that should have gone on your mother's stomach/face/thigh when he was drafted #1 overall ahead of Jason Kidd and Grant Hill.

It's also because the guy wasn't anything special. Borderline AS talent who would never made it to an AS game without the East having been so thin on talent at SF in the 2000 and 2001 seasons. He made it twice at a time when the east's forwards were total garbage. Grant Hill (only one worthy), Glenn Robinson, and Dale fcuking Davis were the LEast's AS forwards in 2000. Tmac (same), Glenn, Antonio Davis, Anthony Mason rounded out the LEast's forwards in 2001.

[El Gato Negro]

As a cavs fan who cares about a dynasty, one championship would be enough. Hard to win one let alone get lucky enough to have several. Can we please stop acting like the cavs were not vastly better with love on both ends of the court this year. Wiggins wasn't even an average NBA starter on either end this year, shouldn't even be mentioned in the same tier as love till he actually does something.

[oh the horror]

A few touched on this fact but the real issue I see here is that Kyrie and Love are injury prone.



So with that said you may have mortgaged your future for a chance at players now that may not be able to keep it together to win a title.


It's a gamble but given this year they must focus on that trio being healthy during the right time of the season

[bdreason]

The only issue I have is people calling the Kyrie and Love injuries "freak" injuries. I'm sorry to say, but both these guys appear to be injury prone. Kind of ironic, LeBron left Miami because he knew Wade couldn't stay healthy...

[J Shuttlesworth]

The only issue I have is people calling the Kyrie and Love injuries "freak" injuries. I'm sorry to say, but both these guys appear to be injury prone. Kind of ironic, LeBron left Miami because he knew Wade couldn't stay healthy...
I actually would agree that Kyrie is injury prone, but there's nothing you can do about someone ripping your shoulder out of it's socket. That doesn't happen because you're "injury prone"

[bdreason]

I actually would agree that Kyrie is injury prone, but there's nothing you can do about someone ripping your shoulder out of it's socket. That doesn't happen because you're "injury prone"


In 5 seasons as an NBA starter K. Love has missed 28% of games played do to injury. He's definitely bordering on injury prone.

[J Shuttlesworth]

In 5 seasons as an NBA starter K. Love has missed 28% of games played do to injury. He's definitely bordering on injury prone.
Sure, but him being injury prone wasn't the reason he's out for the season. Put anyone else in that same scenario, and they are out for the season. That is the perfect example of a freak play.. whether or not it was dirty.

It wasn't as if he aggravated a former injury like his back.

[BlakFrankWhite]

In 5 seasons as an NBA starter K. Love has missed 28% of games played do to injury. He's definitely bordering on injury prone.


5 x 82 = 410

410 x 28% = 115 games missed.

Yeah...that's alot..lol

[bdreason]

Sure, but him being injury prone wasn't the reason he's out for the season. Put anyone else in that same scenario, and they are out for the season. That is the perfect example of a freak play.. whether or not it was dirty.

It wasn't as if he aggravated a former injury like his back.


I was thinking about the future. How LeBron will have to rely on Irving and Love to be healthy every year.

[El Gato Negro]

I was thinking about the future. How LeBron will have to rely on Irving and Love to be healthy every year.
Wasn't that long again curry was considered injury prone.

[BlakFrankWhite]

Yup Curry was considered injury prone...hence he only got a 4yr/48m deal

[ImKobe]

Don't get the trade and the win now part when Bran said he wasn't going to promise a title the first year, should have let Wiggins develop and Bran should have used the time to limit his minutes and focus on helping the guys develop quicker instead of going for a 5th run at the title. Heck, they still would have made the Finals with the way the East was in the Playoffs this season.

That's just one problem I've always had with Lebron. He's never had and apparently he's never going to be on teams where guys develop and grow together. Irving is a nice piece but we know he's prone to injuries, TT will develop but he'll never be more than a solid defender and a rebounder.

Duncan had Manu/Parker/Kawhi/Splitter develop alongside him and they ended up winning together. Kobe had Bynum, Ariza, Odom, Farmar, Shannon Brown play with him for years and he turned them into winners and they won together.

MJ had Pippen, Kareem had Magic, Worthy, Cooper, Hakeem had Kenny Smith, Robert Horry, Shaq had Kobe.

Who does Lebron have? He only won when he joined up two other superstars in their prime, he's never had to groom a young player into a winner. Irving would be the guy but to me he's just a Wade that's 10 years younger and more injury prone. Dude been prone to injuries since college, first 2 seasons, he missed 31 games the first year and 22 games the second one. All that time he's forced to be away from basketball, he won't have the chance to expand his game other than watching film.

Lebron is stuck with a injury-prone point guard as his #2 guy and his 3rd option might bolt this off-season if he can get a better deal elsewhere.

[bdreason]

Wasn't that long again curry was considered injury prone.


In comparison to Love, over the span of starting 6 years in the NBA, Curry has missed ~15% of games played do to injury.

[BlakFrankWhite]

Great post ImKobe

But the problem is he can't wait....he has a legacy to make and needs to win it as the ALPHA....what if he had waited till 2018...and than Wiggins played out of his mind and won the MVP and FMVP...what does that do for LeBron's legacy?

Its all about the legacy bruh....

Btw don't be surprised if Love is sent away and other players are brought in this summer

[JtotheIzzo]

Great post ImKobe

But the problem is he can't wait....he has a legacy to make and needs to win it as the ALPHA....what if he had waited till 2018...and than Wiggins played out of his mind and won the MVP and FMVP...what does that do for LeBron's legacy?

Its all about the legacy bruh....

Btw don't be surprised if Love is sent away and other players are brought in this summer


I agree but I think:

Mosgov
Thompson
Bran
Wiggins
Irving

is better than any combo of 5 they can roll out with Love. Wiggins can create his own shot, Love cannot, so whatever you lose from Love's shooting you get back from Wiggins game, adn I think Wiggins post game can easily replace what the Cavs do with Love down there, and this way you get TT on the floor more, and the team is much more athletic...but what about the outlet passes? Nikka please! Most importantly Wiggins takes miles of Bran, does a lot of the running around and can handle some iso.

It was a retarded trade at the time and only looks worse now. Shit, even Bennett might have been tough with this crew.

[J Shuttlesworth]

I agree but I think:

Mosgov
Thompson
Bran
Wiggins
Irving

is better than any combo of 5 they can roll out with Love. Wiggins can create his own shot, Love cannot, so whatever you lose from Love's shooting you get back from Wiggins game, adn I think Wiggins post game can easily replace what the Cavs do with Love down there, and this way you get TT on the floor more, and the team is much more athletic...but what about the outlet passes? Nikka please! Most importantly Wiggins takes miles of Bran, does a lot of the running around and can handle some iso.

It was a retarded trade at the time and only looks worse now. Shit, even Bennett might have been tough with this crew.
It's hard to imagine that to be true considering the Mozgov/Love/LeBron/Smith/Kyrie lineup was statistically the best in the league with the highest net rating.

[JtotheIzzo]

It's hard to imagine that to be true considering the Mozgov/Love/LeBron/Smith/Kyrie lineup was statistically the best in the league with the highest net rating.

yep, and the Hawks won 60 games. Push comes to shove you are leaning on JR Smith. I'd take TT and Wiggins over Smith and Love with my life on the line.

[Eric Cartman]

It was bad for the Cavs but great for the Wolves.

Legenerous
Lecharity

:applause:

[Cladyclad]

Wiggins is not a transcendental star. when Lebron came on the Cavs, he immediately had an impact so much so that the Cavs stopped being in the lottery immediately.

trade was good because it brought Lebron James back. that's all that could be said, really.
If my memory serves me correct Lebron was in the lottery 2 straight years

[DMAVS41]

You can't predict injuries. When healthy...this Cavs team was as good or better than anyone else.

The trade wasn't great...but only because the Cavs gave up too much. They never should have given up Wiggins, Bennett, and a first rounder for only Love.

They should have demanded Dieng back at least. The Cavs are going to get capped very hard soon and having a real rotation guy like that on the roster would have helped tremendously...even it he was just trade bait it would be key.

But this team is currently loaded and honestly should only get better.

Mozgov
Thompson
Shump
Love
Kyrie

Those guys are all 28 or younger and make up an absolute beast of a core outside of Lebron.

JR and Delly have proven to be very solid bench guys as well. Throw in a healthy Andy this team would go a legit 9 deep with lineup versatility that not even the Warriors could match because of Lebron.

I'd like to see them add a 3 and D guy in place of James Jones to get to a full 10 deep.

[bigt]

I don't think we would have seen the same Wiggins we saw on the Wolves if he was playing in Cleveland. He's had pretty much free roam to do as he wants and could play his game without the concern for wins and losses really. Minny were never going to go far this season, so he could play 40 minutes a game, hoist up a lot of shots and develop naturally. On the Cavs he would have been waiting for shots behind at least Lebron and Kyrie, playing less minutes and probably playing totally different because the same shots he was free to hoist up would be getting him in trouble because the games mattered.


Also guys, it's not just the Love/Wiggins trade that matters here. If Wiggins was here, they might not trade for Shump/Smith (Mozgov would probably still end up here, maybe even more so because they have Bennett instead of Love). I'd presume Waiters still goes. What happens with Bennett?

You can't just take what happened this season as definitive proof, too many variables. For all we know Wiggins on the bench or as a 3/4th option might have ended up being somewhat disappointing, and we're looking at Noel/Mirotic as ROY.