How many players in history could lead this Cavs team to a finals?

[mehyaM24]

for starters, i don't think any perimeter players could accomplish it. the centers i could see doing it, would be peak shaq and maybe, just maybe kareem. magic is my guy BUT i don't think he or bird, the greatest all-around players this side of lebron, could do it because of their defensive versatility.

win or lose, this has been an impressive feat for lebron - similar to what he did in 2007 in fact.

thoughts?

[Rose'sACL]

Jordan, shaq, Duncan.
That is about it. Can't comment about wilt or Russell as I never got to see them.
Cavs would still lose to warriors with one of them instead of lebron.

[Ne 1]

http://s29.postimg.org/a8mi6c26v/Mountrushmore.jpg

[TheMarkMadsen]

there are plenty of players who could have led this team to the finals in that pathetic conference..

it's not like he played at some all time great level to get there.. 42% shooting and 5 to's per game..

[Prime_Shaq]

Jordan. Shaq. Bird.

[mehyaM24]

Jordan, shaq, Duncan.
That is about it. Can't comment about wilt or Russell as I never got to see them.
Cavs would still lose to warriors with one of them instead of lebron.
duncan couldn't do it - not a chance really. he's an all-time great defender, but his offense has always been predicated upon pop's system and other HOFers.

jordan was too one-dimensional, at least from the bird/magic/lebron standard. he wouldn't be able to make this roster work either. see: 1-9 record in the postseason without another ATG complete player).

shaq? agreed. you could place shooters around shaq and he would steamroll most of the teams cleveland has faced in the playoffs - absolutely

[Spurs5Rings2014]

Duncan could easily. Led 4 teams to a chip without another all-NBA teammate (no one else has done that more than once). His 2nd option in 2003 was a rookie Tony Parker who put up 14 PPG on 38%.

:eek:

Bran had multiple all-stars (including the FIBA and last years all-star game MVP), 6MOY, GOAT Euro coach, etc. Even if you take into account injuries, he still had a prime Rodman-esque TT, sharp shooter J.R. Swish, elite defender Iman Shumpert and the ankle-assassin Matthew Dellavedova.

:bowdown:

All this in one of the weakest conferences of all time with a below .500 Celtics team with no stars, a hobbled Bulls team with one of their leading scorers who put up 19 PPG freshly injured and sitting out games, and a pretender Hawks squad that got hot for a month with no stars who also had a plethora of injuries to multiple members of their starting line-up and important rotation players.

:kobe:

Any ATG that couldn't get that team to the finals given those circumstances, isn't an ATG. Point. Blank. Period. Game. Set. Match. Biatchhh.

:banana:

[CelticBaller]

haha, this dude glorifying a participation award

hold the L, 2/6

[sd3035]

It's the East, a potato could lead this team to the finals

[Spurs5Rings2014]

duncan couldn't do it - not a chance really. he's an all-time great defender, but his offense has always been predicated upon the system and other HOFers.

Duncan could easily do it. He's led worse teams than Bron's to a chip in the stacked West.

:oldlol:

Still with that same nonsense about GOATcan being a system player.

:coleman:

Back in Duncan's prime, the system WAS Duncan. Just get the ball to him and get out of the ****ing way. Won 4 chips without another all-NBA teammate, nevermind another HOF'er.

What troll is you?

:biggums:

:confusedshrug:

:hammerhead:

[Fowl]

Hakeem,Prime Tracy McGrady, or Allen Iverson.

[mehyaM24]

Hakeem,Prime Tracy McGrady, or Allen Iverson.

why are people listing one-dimensional players? LOL at those chuckers ever sniffing a finals appearance with this team.


there are plenty of players who could have led this team to the finals in that pathetic conference..

it's not like he played at some all time great level to get there.. 42% shooting and 5 to's per game..
name multiple mvp's and champions from the perimeter that have averaged ~28/10/8 in the postseason.

hint: you cant

[Spurs5Rings2014]

2/6.

[TheMarkMadsen]

why are people listing one-dimensional players? LOL at those chuckers ever sniffing a finals appearance with this team.


name multiple mvp's and champions from the perimeter that have averaged ~28/10/8 in the postseason.

hint: you cant

he shot 39% with 5 TO's per game against the Bulls and his team still easily won..

why are you trying to act like this is some terrible supporting cast :biggums: :biggums:

Irving has been great, Smith has been on fire, TT has been great

42% and 5 TO's per game for the EC playoffs and still easily won the EC championship.. there are plenty of players that could do that..

Curry would have gotten this team to the finals, a healthy KD, WB would do the same. Harden as well..

[rmt]

duncan couldn't do it - not a chance really. he's an all-time great defender, but his offense has always been predicated upon pop's system and other HOFers.

jordan was too one-dimensional, at least from the bird/magic/lebron standard. he wouldn't be able to make this roster work either. see: 1-9 record in the postseason without another ATG complete player).

shaq? agreed. you could place shooters around shaq and he would steamroll most of the teams cleveland has faced in the playoffs - absolutely

I'd like to know what pop's system was in 1999 except dump it in to Duncan and which HOF-level player he was playing with in 2003 that his offense was predicated on.

[mehyaM24]

he shot 39% with 5 TO's per game against the Bulls and his team still easily won..

why are you trying to act like this is some terrible supporting cast :biggums: :biggums:

Irving has been great, Smith has been on fire, TT has been great

42% and 5 TO's per game for the EC playoffs and still easily won the EC championship.. there are plenty of players that could do that..

Curry would have gotten this team to the finals, a healthy KD, WB would do the same. Harden as well..

that's nice - but there's more to the game than just shooting percentages.

unlike the one-dimensional perimeter players listed itt, lebron is an ALL AROUND monster.

he's shooting ~43% in the playoffs thus far, but once more, averaging 10 rebounds and 8+ assists. name other perimeter players that have won MULTIPLE titles and mvps that could do that.

again.. you cant

[coin24]

Any all star replacing LeBald could have lead the cavs to the finals this year, did you forget the pathetic celtics, Bulls and Hawks they faced? Absolute shit.

Pretty much any of the west teams would have swept there way through the east..

[mehyaM24]

I'd like to know what pop's system was in 1999 except dump it in to Duncan and which HOF-level player he was playing with in 2003 that his offense was predicated

on.
make a thread about it, and i will gladly educate you on the matter.

[Mr. Jabbar]

pretty much anyone lmao

[mehyaM24]

28/10/8 - great defense - leadership - clutch play

and all you idiots can cling to are his shooting percentages? :roll:

the standards lebron has set just don't seem to be fair - i understand

[TheMan]

Lol, OP getting murdered in his own thread :oldlol:

Fact, a good number of GOAT level players could lead this Cavs team to the Finals. It's not like Bran put up huge stats to get his team to the Finals. He shot piss poor and turned the ball over a ton :coleman:

[Spurs5Rings2014]

make a thread about it, and i will gladly educate you on the matter.

5/6 > 2/6

[G0ATbe]

There's 100's of players that would've. Top 20 stars in the league today would get them there with ease. Take LeBald off the team and don't replace him with anybody and Cavs would've still cakewalked.

[Viriilink]

Literally any all-time great big men. Greatest challenge would be Bulls and Lebron didn't play particularly well in that series.

[hawke812]

why are people listing one-dimensional players? LOL at those chuckers ever sniffing a finals appearance with this team.


name multiple mvp's and champions from the perimeter that have averaged ~28/10/8 in the postseason.

hint: you cant

Calm your tits bro:lol

[Ne 1]

why are people listing one-dimensional players?

Prime T-Mac was nowhere near one-dimensional. Are you serious? That's absurd. He was a great facilitator/passer, good rebounder for his position, had an amazing all-around scoring game, and he was very solid on the defensive end. His individual play shouldn't even be a question. Nobody expected T-Mac to become the offensive force he was. Even during his last year in Toronto, nobody thought he'd become the offensive player Vince Carter was, much less in the same class as Kobe from 2002-2005

[SamuraiSWISH]

...
Answer

[LAZERUSS]

Well, think about this...

without Love, and with Kyrie nowhere near 100%, and Lebron leads this Cavs roster into OT, against a fully healthy 67-15 Warriors team, and on their home court.

So to answer the OP's question...

Not many.

[mehyaM24]

Well, think about this...

without Love, and with Kyrie nowhere near 100%, and Lebron leads this Cavs roster into OT, against a fully healthy 67-15 Warriors team, and on their home court.

So to answer the OP's question...

Not many.

i wanted to ask you laz - which players do you see doing it? i've listed a couple of centers, but i'm not sure about the rest.

funny seeing all these idiots talk about tmac, but he's never had the complete game lebron did - especially in the playoffs. the farthest tmac took his team was a chokejob in the first round. good scorer, alright defender, but that's where it ends. jordan is another guy. he had no success in the playoffs until a lebron-lite if you will, came in and changed the entire makeup of that franchise.

[LAZERUSS]

i wanted to ask you laz - which players do you see doing it? i've listed a couple of centers, but i'm not sure about the rest.

funny seeing all these idiots talk about tmac, but he's never had the complete game lebron did - especially in the playoffs. the farthest tmac took his team was a chokejob in the first round. good scorer, alright defender, but that's where it ends. jordan is another guy who was 1-9 in the playoffs without pippen - another complete player.

Getting this team to the Finals, and basically without Love, and an injured Kyrie...

A prime MJ, prime Hakeem, prime Kareem, prime Moses, prime Wilt, prime Dr. J, prime Shaq, probably Russell (not sure if there is enough firepower), and probably Bird. Possibly a few others.

But then the next question would be...how many of them could have then taken that roster, again, without Love, and with an injured Kyrie...to an OT game against a fully healthy 67-15 team on their home floor?

Not sure. Possibly, Wilt, Shaq, MJ, and Kareem.

[tpols]

Celtics

Butler/Rose Bulls with their only all nba player hurt

Hawks with their historic shooter injured and spacing gone + extreme collapse by other all stars


Naming the amount of past players who could take out this comp would long cat this thread. If you want I can pm you an excell file maybe

[SamuraiSWISH]

jordan is another guy who was 1-9 in the playoffs without pippen - another complete player.
Um, 1988, ECSF, 4-6

Jordan: 36 ppg (53%), 5 apg, 7 rpg, 2 spg
Pippen: 10 ppg (47%), 2 spg, 5 rpg

Um, 1989, ECF, 9-8

Jordan: 35 ppg (51%), 8 apg, 7 rpg, 3 spg
Pippen: 13 ppg (46%), 4 apg, 8 rpg, 1 spg

Or did you mean when Scottie Pippen became a legit sidekick in 1990? Because what you're suggesting is semantics. Look at the completely staggering difference in all around production, and especially in volume scoring as well as efficiency. Pippen wasn't important until his 3rd season. His numbers prior are even inferior to Larry Hughes, and the Mo Williams of the world.

:oldlol:

[NBASTATMAN]

First let me say that Tmac could not lead this team to the finals.. Dude never got out of the first round as the man...


Mj, kobe, Bird, Magic all could have led this team to the finals.. None would win though... Kg in his prime as well, Duncan any time, Hakeem as well, Shaq as well.. None of them would win the title either...

I will leave out Wilt, Russell, and Kareem cuz I only watched Kareem and that was at the end of his career..

At the end of the day any of the top ten guys could have taken this team to the finals.. But I don't think any of them would beat the Warriors without Kyrie and Love out...

[mehyaM24]

Getting this team to the Finals, and basically without Love, and an injured Kyrie...

A prime MJ, prime Hakeem, prime Kareem, prime Moses, prime Wilt, prime Dr. J, prime Shaq, probably Russell (not sure if there is enough firepower), and probably Bird. Possibly a few others.

But then the next question would be...how many of them could have then taken that roster, again, without Love, and with an injured Kyrie...to an OT game against a fully healthy 67-15 team on their home floor?

Not sure. Possibly, Wilt, Shaq, MJ, and Kareem.
i don't think mj applies. good calls on wilt/shaq/kareem though - they're dominant enough to draw double and triple teams to kick it out to shooters.

i could see the warriors letting mj get his, making him become a volume scorer - then again, i don't see mj getting to the finals with a bad roster because his track record has suggested otherwise.

jordan isn't averaging 10 rebounds and 8 assists, leading a cast of second-rate players to the finals. shaq and kareem could makeup the volume scoring by drawing defensive attention, rebounding and playing defense at the rim.

[LAZERUSS]

Um, 1988, ECSF, 4-6

Jordan: 36 ppg (53%), 5 apg, 7 rpg, 2 spg
Pippen: 10 ppg (47%), 2 spg, 5 rpg

Um, 1989, ECF, 9-8

Jordan: 35 ppg (51%), 8 apg, 7 rpg, 3 spg
Pippen: 13 ppg (46%), 4 apg, 8 rpg, 1 spg

Or did you mean when Scottie Pippen became a legit sidekick in 1990? Because what you're suggesting is semantics. Look at the completely staggering difference in all around production, and especially in volume scoring as well as efficiency.

:oldlol:

Look, no one is saying that MJ should have won from '85 thru '89 (albeit, it is well known that he quit on his '89 team in game five of the '89 ECF's.

He did, however, have enough talent in '90, and '95. Granted, some of them played poorly in the post-season, but then...welcome to Wilt's world. That was a given.

[mehyaM24]

Celtics

Butler/Rose Bulls with their only all nba player hurt

Hawks with their historic shooter injured and spacing gone + extreme collapse by other all stars


Naming the amount of past players who could take out this comp would long cat this thread. If you want I can pm you an excell file maybe

kobe wouldn't get it done - if that's the answer you were looking for.

[J Shuttlesworth]

First let me say that Tmac could not lead this team to the finals.. Dude never got out of the first round as the man...


Mj, kobe, Bird, Magic all could have led this team to the finals.. None would win though... Kg in his prime as well, Duncan any time, Hakeem as well, Shaq as well.. None of them would win the title either...

I will leave out Wilt, Russell, and Kareem cuz I only watched Kareem and that was at the end of his career..

At the end of the day any of the top ten guys could have taken this team to the finals.. But I don't think any of them would beat the Warriors without Kyrie and Love out...
Probably accurate, but I would probably question Kobe in this scenario. LeBron had to shoulder a big rebounding load in the series against the Bulls, and led the series in rebounding, outrebounding the Bulls front court.

Not even trying to knock Kobe. Switch the roles around... say give him Love instead and Kyrie is out for the season and I think Kobe would get it done since Love can really hustle the boards. I have no doubt that Kobe could get it done against the Hawks. They were garbage.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Look, no one is saying that MJ should have won from '85 thru '89 (albeit, it is well known that he quit on his '89 team in game five of the '89 ECF's.
The "1-9 stuff w/o Pippen" stuff is stupid, no?

Scottie Pippen wasn't the all star sidekick player being used against Mike in these semantic arguments before 1990.

And MJ won plenty of playoff games before the season Pippen became legit. He took the Bulls to the Conference Finals and gave the Bad Boy Pistons their only losses of the post season. All while Pippen wasn't even close to being all star caliber.


He did, however, have enough talent in '90, and '95.
In 1990 Pippen pulled a 2009 Mo Williams. Or a 2010 / 2011 LeBron.

Admittedly the pressure got to him, he shrunk and his pussay hurt to the point of getting migraines. Instead of just taking his midols.

And in 1995, even though clearly his team or even series best player. MJ was quite obviously rusty, no? I give him a pass for that post season.


Granted, some of them played poorly in the post-season, but then...welcome to Wilt's world. That was a given.
I don't know what Wilt had to do with this. And no one here was old enough to have watched him, so I can't comment.