Just saying, Dirk and a bunch or role players beat the Heat.

[theoneneo]

A prime Bron, Wade and Bosh at that:applause:

Surely the LeGOAT can to right? :confusedshrug:

[SCdac]

It was an awesome run certainly, Mavs deserve the glory, but basketball isn't 3x3. To be fair to the Heat, they had past his prime Mike Bibby starting, and a bunch of other "one foot out the door and into retirement" players in Stackhouse, Arroyo, Ilgauskas, Dampier, Magloire, Juwan Howard, etc... When they added Shane Battier, Ray Allen, and Chris 'Birdman' Anderson in following seasons, along with Lebron's personal improvement from beyond the arch and in the post, they got much better and unbeatable... and if the Mavs were so "bad", what is that saying about their competition? In reality, the Mavs were exceptional in that given year of bball and for numerous reasons none of the competition could hold a candle to them

[Rocketswin2013]

A prime Bron, Wade and Bosh at that:applause:

Surely the LeGOAT can to right? :confusedshrug:
The Mavs were so deep. They didn't even have semi-prime Caron Butler in the playoffs. They would've crushed the league even worse with him.

[dazzer87]

Best run in NBA playoff history. Underdog in all series including 1st rd vs Portland....:pimp:

[Done_And_Done]

The stars really aligned for the Mavs that year.

[StephHamann]

It was an awesome run certainly, Mavs deserve the glory, but basketball isn't 3x3. To be fair to the Heat, they had past his prime Mike Bibby starting, and a bunch of other "one foot out the door and into retirement" players in Stackhouse, Arroyo, Ilgauskas, Dampier, Magloire, Juwan Howard, etc.

And the Mavs had past their prime Kidd and Marion starting + super scrub Stevenson on SG and later 5 foot Barea....

Brian Cardinal got serious minutes playing time, BRIAN CARDINAL

[AlphaWolf24]

It was an awesome run certainly, Mavs deserve the glory, but basketball isn't 3x3. To be fair to the Heat, they had past his prime Mike Bibby starting, and a bunch of other "one foot out the door and into retirement" players in Stackhouse, Arroyo, Ilgauskas, Dampier, Magloire, Juwan Howard, etc... When they added Shane Battier, Ray Allen, and Chris 'Birdman' Anderson in following seasons, along with Lebron's personal improvement from beyond the arch and in the post, they got much better and unbeatable... and if the Mavs were so "bad", what is that saying about their competition? In reality, the Mavs were exceptional in that given year of bball and for numerous reasons none of the competition could hold a candle to them


IIRC I thought Rio played more in the post season then Bibby..

but the way you spin it absolutely hilarious...

" Heat had older role players" " It's not 3 on 3"...

Who did the Mavs have?...40 year old Brian Cardinal and Peja Stojakivic?

Heat should have and could have easily won that series

[Hardjelly]

The thing is, during those finals, the Heat were basically Wade and a bunch of role players as well, except the Mav's role players were far superior to the Heat's. It was more evenly matched than you'd think.

[sd3035]

Lebald actually outchoked Wilt in that series......incredible

Wilt is still 1a, while Lebaldo remains 1b in the all time chokers list though

[pastis]

Lebald actually outchoked Wilt in that series......incredible

Wilt is still 1a, while Lebaldo remains 1b in the all time chokers list though

so why is wilt considered so good by so many "experts" and fans and top 10 locked?

wilt is like russel just fvcking overrated. its not even funny anymore

[pastis]

And the Mavs had past their prime Kidd and Marion starting + super scrub Stevenson on SG and later 5 foot Barea....

Brian Cardinal got serious minutes playing time, BRIAN CARDINAL

:applause: :applause:

[SCdac]

IIRC I thought Rio played more in the post season then Bibby..

but the way you spin it absolutely hilarious...

" Heat had older role players" " It's not 3 on 3"...

Who did the Mavs have?...40 year old Brian Cardinal and Peja Stojakivic?

Heat should have and could have easily won that series

The Mavs had the best team in the league and tied the defending champs in RS record going into the playoffs.

You say the Heat "should have" and could have won the series... but where is the credit for the players who made LBJ go completely ghost? (i.e., Shawn Marion and DeShawn Stevenson). All the best players the Mavs faced were swingmen and their defense against them deserves credit. Even Kidd did work on defense which is an underrated attribute from a PG.

Mavs had a great team, no doubt. You don't win a championship without a great team.

[pastis]

The Mavs had the best team in the league and tied the defending champs in RS record going into the playoffs.

You say the Heat "should have" and could have won the series... but where is the credit for the players who made LBJ go completely ghost? (i.e., Shawn Marion and DeShawn Stevenson). All the best players the Mavs faced were swingmen and their defense against them deserves credit. Even Kidd did work on defense which is an underrated attribute from a PG.

Mavs had a great team, no doubt. You don't win a championship without a great team.

you are so boring. cant accept smth great that dont begin with "Tim" or "Duncan". i tell you what dikrs 2011 run is higher than 2003s duncans run because SA didnt face the colluded super team in the finals. so defeating kobes stacked lakers, than OKC thunder with KD, who is probably better than duncan ever was, RWB, James Harden and then the heat.

fact is that duncan just won his chips 2005 , 2007 and 2014 with greatest stacked teams, goat coach and didnt merit the 2005 mvp

[AlphaWolf24]

The Mavs had the best team in the league and tied the defending champs in RS record going into the playoffs.

You say the Heat "should have" and could have won the series... but where is the credit for the players who made LBJ go completely ghost? (i.e., Shawn Marion and DeShawn Stevenson). All the best players the Mavs faced were swingmen and their defense against them deserves credit. Even Kidd did work on defense which is an underrated attribute from a PG.

Mavs had a great team, no doubt. You don't win a championship without a great team.


ok you don't win championships without a great team....you also don't win 63 games outta 82 without a great team....

you don't make it the Finals without a great team....Lebron has been on a lot of "great teams"...

for the past 8years straight he has played on great teams capable of winning titles.




according to your criteria.

[SCdac]

you are so boring. cant accept smth great that dont begin with "Tim" or "Duncan". i tell you what dikrs 2011 run is higher than 2003s duncans run because they didnt face the super team in the finals. so defeating kobes stacked lakers, than OKC thunder wiht KD, RWB, James Harden and then the heat.

fact is that duncan just won his chips 2005 , 2007 and 2014 with greatest stacked teams, goat coach and didnt merit the 2005 mvp

dude, if anybodys making this about the Spurs or Duncan its you... If you're incapable of honestly assessing the competition and said teams than that's on you homie... I don't think the Mavs '11 were one of the greatest teams all time or anything, but certainly they creamed the competition that season. As somebody else mentioned, imagine if they had Butler playing too. There's no shame in saying "_____ championship team" was a very good team.

[SCdac]

ok you don't win championships without a great team....you also don't win 63 games outta 82 without a great team....

you don't make it the Finals without a great team....Lebron has been on a lot of "great teams"...

for the past 10 years straight he has played on great teams capable of winning titles.




according to your criteria.

Yeah I agree it takes a certain amount of greatness to win that many RS games... but regular season success isn't always indicative of overall success, that should be clear having seen so many 60+ win teams fizzle out or otherwise show their true colors in the playoffs.

[AirFederer]

Lebald actually outchoked Wilt in that series......incredible

Wilt is still 1a, while Lebaldo remains 1b in the all time chokers list though

That was it right? That was the story of the entire series, right?

How about this...

Let's start before the season even began shall we? Wilt was saddled with arguably the worst roster an all-time great ever had to overcome. How bad were they? Their new coach, Alex Hannum, conducted a pre-season scrimmage, sans Wilt, against drfat picks and scrubs. Guess which team won? Hannum was stunned by the fact that those players had become so dependent on Wilt, that they had forgotten how to play the game.

YET, Wilt then single-handedly carried that cast of clowns to a 48-32 record, averaging 36.9 ppg, 22.3 rpg, and shooting .524 in the process. BTW, how fast was the "pace" of that NBA? The league averaged 111 ppg on .433 shooting during the regular season...hardly "prolific" (MJ's '87 NBA averaged 109.9 ppg on .480 shooting BTW.)

And, how about the scoring of the NBA playoff teams in that 63-64 post-season? 105.8 ppg on .420 shooting. Keep that mind...

In the first round of the playoffs, and in a seven game series, all Chamberlain could do was to average 38.6 ppg, 23.0 rpg, and on .559 shooting! Just staggering numbers considering the "pace" and "efficiency" of that NBA post-season.

Included in those seven games, was a 50 point game, on 22-32 shooting, in game five. Oh, and how did Wilt perform in that game seven. First of all, he held his opposing center, Zelmo Beaty (who would go on to become a multiple all-star) to 10 points. AND, Wilt "the choker" put up a 39 point, 26 rebound, 10 block game.

That setup the Finals, in which Wilt would take as bad a roster as a man has ever had in the post-season, up against Russell, in arguably his greatest season (his defensive win shares was an all-time record that season), and the Celtic Dynasty.

Oh, and BTW, the Celtics had an 8-2 edge in HOFers, too. In fact, Wilt's lone "HOF" teammate was rookie Nate Thurmond, who was playing part-time, out of position (obviously he would become a great center after Wilt), and who would shoot .395 during the regular season.

So, the real question would have been...aside from Thurmond (who once again was a part-timer, and playing out of position), just where would Chamberlain's best teammate, Tom Meschery, who would average 13.5 ppg, 7.7 rpg, and shoot .458...have been camped at on the Celtic bench.

As for the rest of Wilt's teammates? Wayne Hightower, who averaged 13.2 ppg on .385 shooting. Guy Rodgers, who was arguably the WORST shooter of ALL-TIME, who averaged 11.0 ppg on .365 shooting. And hard-nosed Al Attles, who was at 10.9 ppg on .452 shooting. As bad as those guys were...the rest were just awful. Gary Phillips? He shot .370. The legendary Gary Hill averaged 5.1 ppg on .380 shooting. George Lee shot .379. And John Windsor shot .370. And go ahead and look those guys up. None of them played any better with, or without Chamberlain in their careers, and in fact, Attles and Meschery had their best seasons with Wilt.

So, while Chamberlain was shooting .524 from the floor, how about his teammates? They collectively shot .402. BUT, then in the post-season, while Chamberlain was shooting .543, his teammates collectively shot .382.

Back to the Finals. You have read about Wilt's roster. Now, how about that Celtic roster? Satch Sanders and KC Jones...both considered the best defenders at their positions in the league at the time (and while neither should be there...both in the HOF.) Clyle Lovellette, who is in the HOF, and who was a 20 ppg scorer just the year before he played with Boston. Obviously, with that roster, he couldn't even start. Frank Ramsey, who was among the best "6th men" in his career. Then came the heavy hitters. Tom Heinsohn, John Havlicek, and Sam Jones.

Ok, Boston would win that Finals, 4-1. No surprise there, of course. BUT, the last two games were decided in the waning seconds, when Boston won by margins of 3 and 6 points.

How did the Russell-Wilt H2H's go?

Russell averaged 11.2 ppg, 25.2 ppg, and shot .386 from the field. BTW, he also went 12-25 from the line.

Meanwhile, all Wilt could do was to average 29.2 ppg, 27.6 rpg, and shot .517 (once again, in a post-season in which the NBA shot .420.) Oh, and he shot 22-48 from the line. So, Russell outshot Wilt from the line by a .480 to .458 margin, BUT, Wilt outscored Russell from line, as he ALWAYS did, by a 22-12 margin (again...nearly DOUBLE.)

Game 1:

Russell 3-8 from the floor, 3-6 from the line, 9 points, and 25 rebounds.
Wilt 9-20 from the floor, 4-12 from the line, 22 points, and 23 rebounds.

Game 2:

Russell 4-10, 1-4, 9 points, 24 rebounds
Wilt 14-27, 4-9, 32 points, 25 rebounds

Game 3:

Russell 7-19, 2-5, 16 points, 32 rebs
Wilt 15-22, 5-11, 35 points, 25 rebs

Game 4:

Russell 3-9, 2-5, 8 pts, 19 rebs
Wilt 12-23, 3-8, 27 pts, 38 rebs

Game 5:

Russell 5-11, 4-5, 14 pts, 26 rebs
Wilt 12-28, 6-13, 30 pts, 27 rebs.

As usual, in a "must-win" situation, Chamberlain put up a 30-27 game.

Chamberlain "the choker."

Now, swap those rosters, and does anyone in their right mind honestly believe that Russell would have led that inept cast to a title? And given the fact that Wilt proved he could adapt to whatever his coach's would have asked, that Chamberlain's "Celtics" would not have just blown Russell's "Warriors" away?
Wait a second...how about RUSSELL in those game seven's?

Russell averaged 13.2 ppg, 24.5 rpg, and shot .465 from the field.
Chamberlain averaged 21.3 ppg, 28.5 rpg, and shot ...get this... .638 from the field!

As for Jones outscoring Wilt in those game seven's...Chamberlain outscored Jones in the '60, '62, '64, '65, '66, and '67 H2H playoff series'.

Oh, and how about comparing Jones' rebounding and FG%'s in those H2H's, too?

And don't give me this crap that Russell didn't HAVE to score against Wilt, either. Chamberlain HAD to score, at least in the first half of his career, as well as do everything that Russell was doing.

BTW, no one has ever explained this one to me...

In the '66 ECF's, when Chamberlain's Sixers were down 3-1, and were facing elimination in game five, (and in a series in which Wilt's teammates collectively .352), Wilt exploded for a 46 point game, with 34 rebounds, on 19-34 shooting. Yes, in a loss. BUT, his teammates were of no help at all.

Ok, so in the '67 ECF's, it was now Russell who was faced with the EXACT set of circumstances. His Celtics had narrowly avoided a sweep in game four, and were down 3-1 going into game five. How did Russell respond when it was obvious that his teammates, finally neutralized by Wilt's, desperately needed him to step up? He quietly went like a lamb to slaughter, scoring a total of FOUR points, and on 2-5 shooting, with 21 rebounds. How about Wilt "the choker" in that clinching game five win? 29 points (22 of which came in the first half when the game was still close), on 10-16 shooting, with 13 assists, 7 blocks, and 36 rebounds.

How come Russell couldn't produce anything close to a 46-34 game against Wilt? And yet, Chamberlain had a TON of similar games in his career against Russell (24 games of 40+ points.)












Just kidding :lol :cheers:

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

11 Dirk is a top 10 peak of alltime. ALLTIME
prolly the most nonMJ clutch playoff run ever too and its still better than most of MJs for clutch

[SamuraiSWISH]

The 2011 Mavs weren't garbage outside of Dirk. They actually had quite a bit of talent, and massive amounts of cohesion. Played great team ball. They just didn't have the top heavy superstar caliber help. Just like in 2007 when they won 60+ games, but then lost to an 8th seed.

[BigTicket]

That same Mavs team also swept the defending champion Lakers.

Very solid team with Terry, Kidd, Chandler, Marion etc.

[SamuraiSWISH]

That same Mavs team also swept the defending champion Lakers
A 2011 Laker team on life support, complacent. With hobbled Kobe, and mentally checked out Gasol / Odom.

[DMAVS41]

The 2011 Mavs weren't garbage outside of Dirk. They actually had quite a bit of talent, and massive amounts of cohesion. Played great team ball. They just didn't have the top heavy superstar caliber help. Just like in 2007 when they won 60+ games, but then lost to an 8th seed.


There is some truth to this, but the 11 roster was way better for winning in the playoffs than the 07 roster for starters. Just on coach alone it's night and day.

Also, a new study came out ranking supporting casts, and the 11 Mavs ranked as the 5th worst...so number 56 out of 60...in the last 30 years.

You've always been a pretty big Dirk hater though...so I doubt you'll recognize the obvious here.

[DMAVS41]

dude, if anybodys making this about the Spurs or Duncan its you... If you're incapable of honestly assessing the competition and said teams than that's on you homie... I don't think the Mavs '11 were one of the greatest teams all time or anything, but certainly they creamed the competition that season. As somebody else mentioned, imagine if they had Butler playing too. There's no shame in saying "_____ championship team" was a very good team.

The 11 Heat not being great is a myth though. I've shown you guys this time and time again.

Now we have a new study that ranked supporting casts.

And shockingly...it agrees with me!

Remember how you wanted to tell me how great the 13 Heat were? Well, just like I told you...this study ranks the 13 Heat way below the 11 and 12 Heat.

Here are the facts. Dirk's supporting cast in 11 was way below average for a team making the finals in the last 30 years. I'm not sure where it actually ranks. I actually don't think it's bottom 5 like the study had, but it certainly isn't good.

The 11 Heat were all time loaded and definitely one of the better teams to make the finals in terms of superstar player and supporting cast.

Doesn't mean Dirk deserves all the credit...far from it, but it does mean we can stop lying about which team was better and whether or not it was an upset.

[StephHamann]

Also, a new study came out ranking supporting casts, and the 11 Mavs ranked as the 5th worst...so number 56 out of 60...in the last 30 years.



B b b but Dirk had major help

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ol17K99MQw

[SamuraiSWISH]

You've always been a pretty big Dirk hater though
No, just a Dirk realist. You're a stan of his, so you're extra defensive. And delusional.

[DMAVS41]

No, just a Dirk realist. You're a stan of his, so you're extra defensive. And delusional.

No.

So the new study that came out is delusional and stanning Dirk? That is your argument?

You are delusional if you think that 11 Mavs supporting cast was anything other than a bottom tier finals supporting casts.

Take the L...

[DMAVS41]

B b b but Dirk had major help

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ol17K99MQw

Damn I miss the custodian...Samurai probably thinks he was the real MVP of the team.