Where are your Gods now efficiency dorks

[Ne 1]

http://www.niemanlab.org/images/henryabbott.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/3683769150/4402f4baa66031982d5b215d6dd1732f_400x400.jpeg

LeBron James in the 2015 playoffs with 3-5 more games left has shot 42% so far... 46% vs Boston, 39% vs Chicago, 43% vs Atlanta and 40% so far vs Golden State. He's regarded by the majority as the best player in the world.

"Efficiency" will never be uttered again by these elitist fans on ISH or simiar sites if he wins a ring this year. :oldlol:

[NBASTATMAN]

Lebron has been straight up bad with his shooting... If he could finish at the basket he would be shooting better and they would be up 2-0.. NOT MJ LIKE IS ALL I CAN SAY... :rockon:

[SilkkTheShocker]

Butthurt Kobe stans. You all be a mess if LeBron wins a ring with this s.hit bucket Cavs team

[Magic 32]

Just give up.

These people are part of a cult. Whatever fits their agenda.

Lebron could shot 20% and still be loved by these guys if he wins.

[tmacattack33]

:facepalm

If you are getting 41.5 ppg, then 49 TS% is not too bad at all.







Now, if all you can put up is 24 ppg, you should be able to do better than 49 TS%.

[ClipperRevival]

Wow, and I thought this thread would be about GSW's team numbers. But it's a bash on Bron? :facepalm Jesus Christ. The guy is playing at a level that's been matched by few in history in terms of impact and you still got people hating.

[SilkkTheShocker]

3 potential wins away from winning a title with the least-talented team in NBA finals history to a championship. LeBron haters will have absolutely nothing to go on when Cleveland finishes off this f.aggy GS team. Honestly, if I was a LeBron hater, I would be an absolute mess right now. This Cavs team without LeBron would be choosing between Okafor or Towns

[Ne 1]

Butthurt Kobe stans. You all be a mess if LeBron wins a ring with this s.hit bucket Cavs team

Just admit it, the "efficency" argument no longer holds weight anymore, especially without context.

[3ball]

http://www.niemanlab.org/images/henryabbott.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/3683769150/4402f4baa66031982d5b215d6dd1732f_400x400.jpeg


"Efficiency" will never be uttered again by these elitist fans on ISH or simiar sites if he wins a ring this year. :oldlol:


I always knew that my hoops knowledge was literally dimensions better than these stat bots.

These guys couldn't be more lame - purporting an ERRONEOUS narrative - basing much of their careers on erroneous, IGNORANT analysis.

[Magic 32]

The guy is playing at a level that's been matched by few in history in terms of impact and you still got people hating.

Missed 17 of his last 21 shots. Chokes a 11 point lead in 2 minutes.

Went 0-12 at the end of the game.

What is "historical" about his play is the number of iso's and one-on-one plays he gets to do.

Wake up please.

[navy]

Cavs offense is pretty terrible but okay.

[tmacattack33]

Missed 17 of his last 21 shots. Chokes a 11 point lead in 2 minutes.

Went 0-12 at the end of the game.

What is "historical" about his play is the number of iso's and one-on-one plays he gets to do.

He made the dagger (would be dagger if not for J R Smith playing like an idiot) three pointer, so I know 0-12 is wrong.


Also, that 0 (or whatever it is actually...since 0-12 is def wrong) would be a 6 or something, but G State fouled Lebron intentionally instead of giving him a lay up like 4-5 times during that span.

[Ca$H]

henry abbott looks like a "penase"(Theoo's spelling).

[funnystuff]

3/6 is a mile better than 2/7, Kobe stans dmg ctrl

[KembaWalker]

3 potential wins away from winning a title with the least-talented team in NBA finals history to a championship. LeBron haters will have absolutely nothing to go on when Cleveland finishes off this f.aggy GS team. Honestly, if I was a LeBron hater, I would be an absolute mess right now. This Cavs team without LeBron would be choosing between Okafor or Towns

Like the Lakers are without Kobe for most of the season? How great are they both :bowdown:

[TheMan]

Wow, and I thought this thread would be about GSW's team numbers. But it's a bash on Bron? :facepalm Jesus Christ. The guy is playing at a level that's been matched by few in history in terms of impact and you still got people hating.
He's not bashing Bron you dope. He's talking about Bran's "efficiency elitist cult".

Bran's become a volume scorer, Silkk, mehyaM24, dubeta etc on suicide watch, their beloved FG%, the ONE thing they held onto after all these years, GONE after these playoffs. LeBron said he loved Allen Iverson growing up, so much so that he's doing his best AI impression :oldlol:

[Ne 1]

I always knew that my hoops knowledge was literally dimensions better than these stat bots.

These guys couldn't be more lame - purporting an ERRONEOUS narrative - basing much of their careers on erroneous, IGNORANT analysis.

That's the problem with these stat geeks. The only use pure stats, formulas/metrics and have no context or understanding of the game to justify their opinions.

Percect example is John Hollinger. He once said he watches 4 NBA games a year. :roll: I was reading his top Finals games of all time and he said something like "Unfortunately for Walton, his game 6 didn't include turnovers and he surely had some which would bring his score even lower". I'm thinking, watch the damn game if you're going to rank it!

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Seems like a pretty valid point.

Lebron James is current playing less efficiently this postseason than Kobe has ever done in his entire playoff career yet the advance stats, metrics, "clutch time" writer crowd is awfully quiet.

[Magic 32]

He made the dagger (would be dagger if not for J R Smith playing like an idiot) three pointer, so I know 0-12 is wrong.

What dagger?

The one before the 3 minute collapse?



Also, that 0 (or whatever it is actually...since 0-12 is def wrong) would be a 6 or something, but G State fouled Lebron intentionally instead of giving him a lay up like 4-5 times during that span.

Old school playoff basketball. They should really ban that stuff.

For Lebron.

[Ne 1]

Field goal percentage is the most important thing in basketball. [/B] Scoring a bunch of points on low percentages does not lead to wins, unless you are like Kobe and have an elite front court every year of your career.
Put Kobe on the Heat from 2010-2014 and he would never make it out of the first round. Who would rebound his bricks? Bosh? :oldlol:







Re: Lebron James is a miracle

Since Kobe and AI went into the league, every guards and SFs started to jack shots ( PP, Tmac, rose, Durant, Westbrick, and wade and so on)

However, since Lebron joined the Heat, we are able to see another unselfish non- big men superstar. This is like watching Larry Bird/ Magic play to be honest. Unselfish basketball has long gone but now reinvented by Bron


efficiency is everything.

[navy]

Seems like a pretty valid point.

Lebron James is current playing less efficiently this postseason than Kobe has ever done in his entire playoff career yet the advance stats, metrics, "clutch time" writer crowd is awfully quiet.
Not really. Go check ESPN.

[SilkkTheShocker]

He's not bashing Bron you dope. He's talking about Bran's "efficiency elitist cult".

Bran's become a volume scorer, Silkk, mehyaM24, dubeta etc on suicide watch, their beloved FG%, the ONE thing they held onto after all these years, GONE after these playoffs. LeBron said he loved Allen Iverson growing up, so much so that he's doing his best AI impression :oldlol:

3 wins away from winning a title with a D-league team. We won't be the ones on suicide watch :oldlol:

[Orlando Magic]

Hey OP, you blatant moron, when was the last time Kobe went deep into the playoffs without a second option that could give you 20 and 10 every single night?

I'm waiting... oh wait, that hasn't happened... ever... I mean... Kobe missed the playoffs at his peak and then got bounced in the first round. lol.

If LeBron had a prime Gasol or prime Shaq on his team he would be putting up 60% TS nightly right now.

He's not in a position to do that, obviously.

If people don't think that teammates matter when determining FG% and efficiency, they're kidding themselves...

Also... this isn't peak LeBron. Peak LeBron was like 3 or 4 years ago.

[zoom17]

Wow, and I thought this thread would be about GSW's team numbers. But it's a bash on Bron? :facepalm Jesus Christ. The guy is playing at a level that's been matched by few in history in terms of impact and you still got people hating.

:oldlol:

[derb2k2]

lmao @ insecure Kobrick lovers

Kobe never was the playmaker that Lebron is. Face facts. Even with all the misses, Lebron still manages to influence the game like Kobrick never did.

[nathanjizzle]

the impact is clear when lebron is compromising his FG percentage to play aggressively compared to vice versa. Its ironic, that stat nerds using cold hard facts to make their point are the most ignorant basketball fans.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

When Kobe is averaging a ~40 point triple-double in the finals, let us know. Your point might be valid then.

[Ne 1]

Hey OP, you blatant moron, when was the last time Kobe went deep into the playoffs without a second option that could give you 20 and 10 every single night?


http://www.geeksandcleats.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/allen-iverson-braids.jpg

http://s3.amazonaws.com/rapgenius/1371126274_jason-kidd-sportsbook-bonus.jpg


http://images2.sina.com/english/sports/2009/0614/U100P200T1D248447F14DT20090615012606.jpg


I mean... Kobe missed the playoffs at his peak and then got bounced in the first round. lol.

Yeah, '05 was a down year for Kobe. But the Lakers were actually above .500 though before Kobe's injury and 24-19 total under Rudy T before he stepped down for health reasons. Kobe, Butler and Odom missed a combined 39 games that season. Puts the whole "missing the playoffs" into context. As far as getting bounced in the first round, the 2006/2007 Lakers actually overachived for one and how is the 7th seed seed losing to the #2 seed a big deal? :confusedshrug:


If LeBron had a prime Gasol or prime Shaq on his team he would be putting up 60% TS nightly right now.

Prove it.



Also... this isn't peak LeBron. Peak LeBron was like 3 or 4 years ago.

What's your point? Efficiency dorks always claimed FG% was the be all end stat.

[chazzy]

It's such a strange series to really determine how good he's playing. Awful efficiency, insane volume numbers, but also insane usage% and isolation every play. It's not boosting his team's offense to some unexpected level, as they had the 3rd worst ORTG in a win ever yesterday. But his play style is effective because it is taking GSW out of their rhythm offensively by slowing the game down.

[Magic 32]

3 wins away from winning a title with a D-league team. We won't be the ones on suicide watch :oldlol:

Imagine of he loses (a real possiblity).

2/6 and you have shown your true color (that you only care about efficiency when it comes to Kobe).

Devastating

[Ne 1]

lmao @ insecure Kobrick lovers

Kobe never was the playmaker that Lebron is. Face facts. Even with all the misses, Lebron still manages to influence the game like Kobrick never did.

"Kobe's become the floor leader of a basketball team that was kind of looking for that nature of a player, who could not only be a scorer, but also be a playmaker or consistently make big plays at critical times," Jackson said. "So it was very important for Kobe to step into that role that he was envisioned at. I've always held the bar up very high for Kobe, and he's not only reached that bar, but he's jumping over the top of it right now.

"And I think it's the best that I've ever seen a player of mine play with an overall court game. I'm asking him to do so much, and he's accomplishing it."

Jackson was quickly asked for a clarification. That includes Michael Jordan?

"I never asked Michael to be a playmaker," Jackson said. "That's the greatest player that I've ever had, that I could consider the greatest player in the game, and I never asked him to be a playmaker in those terms. I asked him to be playmaker when he was doubled or tripled. But Kobe has to set up the offense, to advance the ball, to read the defense, to make other players happy, and he's doing a great job of that." - Phil Jackson 2001





Muh triple-doubles!

http://cdn.newsday.com/polopoly_fs/1.7398961.1395539346!/httpImage/image.JPG_gen/derivatives/display_600/image.JPG

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

That's not an argument.

Once again, when Kobe is putting up the all-around production LeBron has in the postseason, and particularity the finals, your point will be valid.

[Ne 1]

That's not an argument.


How so? The triangle is a slow-paced, half court oriented offense geared toward ball movement.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

lmao @ insecure Kobrick lovers

Kobe never was the playmaker that Lebron is. Face facts. Even with all the misses, Lebron still manages to influence the game like Kobrick never did.

The Cavs have a sub 100 Offensive Rating in the Finals. Such playmaking impact tho. :oldlol:

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

How so? The triangle is a slow-paced, half court oriented offense geared toward ball movement.
Jordan averaged ~31/12/6 in the '91 finals. :confusedshrug:

But even if you were to excuse Kobe because of the "triangle", he's also played under multiple coaches YET still hasn't accomplished this feat.

LeBron's definitely been inefficient and Iverson-like from a scoring perspective, but the all-around game nullifies that; an all-around game neither of those players can match.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Jordan averaged ~31/12/6 in the '91 finals. :confusedshrug:

But even if you were to excuse Kobe because of the "triangle", he's also played under multiple coaches YET still hasn't accomplished this feat.

LeBron's definitely been inefficient and Iverson-like from a scoring perspective, but the all-around game nullifies that; an all-around game neither of those players can match.

The goal is to win games not collect stats. Kobe's a SG. Lebron's playing as a PF most of the time. There was no need for him to take rebounds away from his teammates to chase meaningless numbers. :confusedshrug:

[Shih508]

Jordan averaged ~31/12/6 in the '91 finals. :confusedshrug:

But even if you were to excuse Kobe because of the "triangle", he's also played under multiple coaches YET still hasn't accomplished this feat.

LeBron's definitely been inefficient and Iverson-like from a scoring perspective, but the all-around game nullifies that; an all-around game neither of those players can match.

AI is more efficient than Kobe if u look the thing into context. He's shorter, played all his prime in hand-check era and never had someone else on his team to share the offensive load.

AI is the basketball god pound for pound.

On the other hand, Lebron's worst final series in terms of fg% is still 2% higher than Kobe's career avg. Kobe is one of worst final performer of all time while being carried series after series by Refs and Lakers franchise. Overrated to Extreme.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

AI is more efficient than Kobe if u look the thing into context. He's shorter, played all his prime in hand-check era and never had someone else on his team to share the offensive load.

AI is the basketball god pound for pound.

On the other hand, Lebron's worst final series in terms of fg% is still 2% higher than Kobe's career avg. Kobe is one of worst final performer of all time while being carried series after series by Refs and Lakers franchise. Overrated to Extreme.

Since Ai gets bonus points for being smaller than Kobe does Kobe get bonus points for being smaller than LeBron?

:facepalm

The worst Finals performance of all time was only 4 years ago did you forget already?

[Ne 1]

LeBron's definitely been inefficient and Iverson-like from a scoring perspective

And his stats would plummet considering how consistent his jumper is.

Move the ball to the post or inside to a double teamed big man who takes advantage of the mismatch or throws the ball out for it to be swung to the weakside (many times thats two passes) for an open perimeter shot. Ball movements also means less assists for the pivotal player in that play.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

The goal is to win games not collect stats. Kobe's a SG. Lebron's playing as a PF most of the time. There was no need for him to take rebounds away from his teammates to chase meaningless numbers. :confusedshrug:

LeBron is winning; he's got 2 titles and is in good position to put a strangle-hold on GSW w/ these home games. :confusedshrug:

Not only that, but its not LeBron's fault that he's doing more beside scoring. Scoring, playmaking, rebounding, and defending at an elite level - something Kobe nor Iverson ever did consistently.

[AirFederer]

LOL @Kobe stans in this thread.
We all know you`d LOVE it and post non stop about it if Kobe came up with 39/16/11 on 11/35 in a W in the finals, away game.

Just stop :facepalm

[Hey Yo]

Since Ai gets bonus points for being smaller than Kobe does Kobe get bonus points for being smaller than LeBron?

:facepalm

The worst Finals performance of all time was only 4 years ago did you forget already?
Prime Magic in 1983 was worse. They got swept with Magic avg. 6TO's PG and shooting 40%. Pretty bad FG% for a guy didn't/couldn't shoot jumpers. Majority of points were from posting up and from the FTL.

[NBASTATMAN]

Just admit it, the "efficency" argument no longer holds weight anymore, especially without context.


On the contrary, if he were more efficient they would be up 2-0..:rockon:

[Yao Ming's Foot]

LeBron is winning; he's got 2 titles and is in good position to put a strangle-hold on GSW w/ these home games. :confusedshrug:

Not only that, but its not LeBron's fault that he's doing more beside scoring. Scoring, playmaking, rebounding, and defending at an elite level - something Kobe nor Iverson ever did consistently.

Oh wow 2 titles. I didn't realize.. :bowdown:

[NBASTATMAN]

Imagine of he loses (a real possiblity).

2/6 and you have shown your true color (that you only care about efficiency when it comes to Kobe).

Devastating


If Lebron were efficient they would be up 2-0.. It matters big time... That is something he needs to work on... Shooting like AI AND KOBE ain't going to do it...

[Pointguard]

Prime Magic in 1983 was worse. They got swept with Magic avg. 6TO's PG and shooting 40%. Pretty bad FG% for a guy didn't/couldn't shoot jumpers. Majority of points were from posting up and from the FTL.
Lebron was in the running for GOAT before 2011 and the argument was completely changed to top 12 based on effort/attitude/aggression based on his play that series. No stat is above that. As far as play, Magic played to win. Lebron was just playing. He was put into a whole other category because of his play. Not even remotely close. Magic's turnovers were in effort to get an overwhelmed team going.

[DMV2]

Lebron was in the running for GOAT before 2011 and the argument was completely changed to top 12 based on effort/attitude/aggression based on his play that series. No stat is above that. As far as play, Magic played to win. Lebron was just playing. He was put into a whole other category because of his play. Not even remotely close. Magic's turnovers were in effort to get an overwhelmed team going.
If he averages 40 PPG, which he has to do if he wants to this series and a couple more triple doubles, it completely makes up for his 2011 failure.

He's playing with a noname Aussie, two Knicks outcasts and a Knicks player who was part of a trade that sent half of the Knicks roster for Melo.

This Cavs roster is a complete joke. Wining one game was already a bit of a push.

[stephanieg]

Not sure what the OP is talking about. I guess you didn't notice GSW was making a castle of bricks, especially the league MVP. If they ever start to hit open shots again Cleveland won't stand a chance.

Plus, even if you're inefficient you can win if you keep getting rebounds or steals. And in a game it doesn't matter if your efficiency is compared to the league average. You're not playing the league.

[Ne 1]

He's not bashing Bron you dope. He's talking about Bran's "efficiency elitist cult".

Bran's become a volume scorer, Silkk, mehyaM24, dubeta etc on suicide watch, their beloved FG%, the ONE thing they held onto after all these years, GONE after these playoffs. LeBron said he loved Allen Iverson growing up, so much so that he's doing his best AI impression :oldlol:
Exactly. These dorks who worshipped John Hollinger and Henry Abbot types can no longer clinge to and spout their elititst efficiency rhetoric now that James has proven its meaningless, especially without context. These guys want to try to turn basketball into baseball with their stats but the thing is that they are totally different sports. Baseball is way more controlled and there are way more constants. Basketball is a continious activity with 5 guys effecting other on both teams at all times.

[Relinquish]

The Cavs have a sub 100 Offensive Rating in the Finals. Such playmaking impact tho. :oldlol:

The Warriors are the best defensive team in the league.

:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

[Relinquish]

LOL @Kobe stans in this thread.
We all know you`d LOVE it and post non stop about it if Kobe came up with 39/16/11 on 11/35 in a W in the finals, away game.

Just stop :facepalm

11/34

[DetroitPistonFan]

3/6 is a mile better than 2/7, Kobe stans dmg ctrl
The man who is 1/11 is still better than LeBron.

[Pointguard]

If he averages 40 PPG, which he has to do if he wants to this series and a couple more triple doubles, it completely makes up for his 2011 failure.

He's playing with a noname Aussie, two Knicks outcasts and a Knicks player who was part of a trade that sent half of the Knicks roster for Melo.

This Cavs roster is a complete joke. Wining one game was already a bit of a push.
Definitively in my book as well. I love this run. Everybody has one or two forgettable ones. If he was aggressive his whole career he's top three right now. So there was a price there. But he can still get three Goat with two more similar years and two more rings.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

The Warriors are the best defensive team in the league.

:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

And the WCF teams managed offensive ratings over 100 against them in the playoffs... :confusedshrug:

Dat Lebron playmaking though

[warriorfan]

I always knew that my hoops knowledge was literally dimensions better than these stat bots.

These guys couldn't be more lame - purporting an ERRONEOUS narrative - basing much of their careers on erroneous, IGNORANT analysis.

word, that is what happens when you let autistic people talk basketball :lol

[G0ATbe]

When LeBald tries to adopt the Kobe system he can barely crack 35% shooting most of the time, yet Godbe consistently sits between 45-50% throughout his career. Imagine what Godbe's FG% could be if he was a statpadder.:eek:

[3ball]

Lebron is taking 36 shots per game vs. Warriors.. Last year, he took 17 per game versus Spurs.. :eek:

How much would the Cavs be getting blown out if he only took 17 shots per game THIS year?.. Would the blowout be worse than last year?

How dumb was he to only take 17 shots per game on a top-heavy team last year?... Isn't that one of the dumbest strategic decisions ever?...

The facts are there - the Warriors are more talented than the Spurs, yet Lebron is doing better with a worse supporting cast BECAUSE HE'S SHOOTING and doesn't give 2 bird shits about efficiency anymore.. that ****er has deleted hollinger's number from his phone.. :confusedshrug:

[diamenz]

3 potential wins away from winning a title with the least-talented team in NBA finals history to a championship. LeBron haters will have absolutely nothing to go on when Cleveland finishes off this f.aggy GS team. Honestly, if I was a LeBron hater, I would be an absolute mess right now. This Cavs team without LeBron would be choosing between Okafor or Towns

yeah, that same mess u were in between games one and two.

[L8kersfan222]

Butthurt Kobe stans. You all be a mess if LeBron wins a ring with this s.hit bucket Cavs team
false, we will celebrate the alphaness

[Pointguard]

Lebron is taking 36 shots per game vs. Warriors.. Last year, he took 17 per game versus Spurs.. :eek:

How much would the Cavs be getting blown out if he only took 17 shots per game THIS year?.. Would the blowout be worse than last year?

How dumb was he to only take 17 shots per game on a top-heavy team last year?... Isn't that one of the dumbest strategic decisions ever?...

The facts are there - the Warriors are more talented than the Spurs, yet Lebron is doing better with a worse supporting cast BECAUSE HE'S SHOOTING and doesn't give 2 bird shits about efficiency anymore.. that ****er has deleted hollinger's number from his phone.. :confusedshrug:
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=376114&page=8 Remember that thread. Its even moreso applicable now.

When Lebron is aggressive and imposing himself on the game he's a whole 2 notches better than Mr Efficiency, which undermines his crazy size/speed advantage. He was in his prime and got caught up in that efficiency game. He didn't bet on himself and making others adapt to him. Aggressive teams win. Plain and simple.

[SamuraiSWISH]

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=376114&page=8 Remember that thread. Its even moreso applicable now.

When Lebron is aggressive and imposing himself on the game he's a whole 2 notches better than Mr Efficiency, which undermines his crazy size/speed advantage. He was in his prime and got caught up in that efficiency game. He didn't bet on himself and making others adapt to him. Aggressive teams win. Plain and simple.
Agree, that's what I said last year. His stans gave him a pass on the surface for his Finals, given how bad his teammates were, but LeBron didn't do all he could to battle that Spurs team with true competitive spirit. 17 shots only?

He is however doing all he can with the Cavs having lost his next two best players, and going up against a power house.

With heart. Kinda. Apart from the whining to the refs, and in ability to play well in the 4th or OT. And the complete lack of killer instincts on a few potential game winners.

This is how we always wanted him to play. That's why him going to Miami from the get go was cowardly on multiple levels. He played for efficiency, and didn't just go balls to wall in order to assert his dominance or will on the opposing team. It's pretty much how he played the duration of his tenure in Miami. It's not organic FG%, or organic basketball period.

While his shooting efficiency is god awful in the Bulls, and current Finals series ... but he's being aggressive, and playing to win. Plain and simple. He's been very good all around. From distribution, leadership, defense, rebounding, and scoring. Against some very quality man defenders. Iggy himself being one of the best of the last decade.

It's why 2009 is my favorite LeBron. He played to win, and played with heart. Now, he's a better leader now, much regressed physical abilities, and even certain skill sets. His jumper has abandoned him this year, ability to finish at the rim has dropped off a cliff and yet he's still managing to produce.

[Hey Yo]

Agree, that's what I said last year. His stans gave him a pass on the surface for his Finals, given how bad his teammates were, but LeBron didn't do all he could to battle that Spurs team with true competitive spirit. 17 shots only?
He led the team in every major statistical category for the series, yet he didn't do enough.

:oldlol: ....dumb

[TheMan]

3 wins away from winning a title with a D-league team. We won't be the ones on suicide watch :oldlol:
:no: I'm rooting for LeBron and the Cavs. Stop pretending like you haven't seen me here predicting a Cavs Finals win before they started :facepalm

I don't think they can pull it off without KI (too little depth, might run out of gas the longer the series goes) but I'm hoping this new version of LeBron pulls (the one who disregards FG% in favor of winning the goddam games) pulls off the upset and finally show you efficiency nerds that sometimes you gotta win ugly or go down swinging than losing pretty :confusedshrug:

[HomieWeMajor]

Realgm stat nerds are preparing their nooses as we speak.

[SamuraiSWISH]

He led the team in every major statistical category for the series, yet he didn't do enough.

:oldlol: ....dumb
17 shots a game ... that isn't close to being aggressive enough. Especially as the best player in the universe.

[plowking]

Just admit it, the "efficency" argument no longer holds weight anymore, especially without context.

Being more efficient is always better. Always. That is essentially the definition of it. Being able to perform something at a more successful rate.

This whole argument is hypocritical, since this train of thought is never applied to free throws... by anyone. Everyone harps on about bad free throw shooters. No "context" needed there.

Since the thread is about Lebron, we can put it into context. Lebron has been efficient his whole career pretty much. Outside of two or three series' in his whole playoff career, he has been an efficient scorer. If he is shooting at such a poor percentage, yet throughout the whole year has been helping his team win due to his good percentages, then clearly there is something else we need to look at. How is he leading this team to victory with such poor percentages? He must be doing a whole lot more.

This isn't a case of Iverson constantly shooting 40%, his team winning based on those numbers the whole year, and he continues to do it in the finals and they win for example. No context needed in that case. Dude shoots 40% generally, and shot 38-42% in the finals.

Bron's case, he is clearly doing something right, since it has allowed them to stay competitive against a superior team which many said they wouldn't be able to keep up with.

[plowking]

17 shots a game ... that isn't close to being aggressive enough. Especially as the best player in the universe.

He played on a "stacked" team. You have players supposedly that good around you, you share the ball don't you?

[SamuraiSWISH]

He played on a "stacked" team. You have players supposedly that good around you, you share the ball don't you?
Yea, he did. As all the Heat, and LeBron stans said his teammates were failing him. So when sharing the ball with typically talented teammates isn't working ... assert your will on the game. Right? Is 17 shots a game while going out swinging?

[warriorfan]

Realgm stat nerds are preparing their nooses as we speak.

:oldlol:

[Dro]

Just the fact the he's playing so aggressively makes all the difference......

[plowking]

Yea, he did. As all the Heat, and LeBron stans said his teammates were failing him. So when sharing the ball with typically talented teammates isn't working ... assert your will on the game. Right? Is 17 shots a game while going out swinging?

Your whole view of basketball is warped bro.

Above you said Bron doesn't have killer instinct because he missed the game winning layup... :oldlol:
An unlucky bounce doesn't take away from the fact he destroyed the defense and got exactly the shot he wanted. Not to mention he was fouled too. Great job by Bron on that play, just unlucky.

Secondly...

So take away shots from your stacked teammates instead of expecting them to come into their own? They had 5 games to do it, and not one of the stacked teammates stepped up?
Can't beat a basketball team by yourself, and you fault him for passing to his ultra talented teammates and expecting some production?


That Heat team wasn't stacked in 2014, and this Cavs team is better. Said it before, and I'll keep saying it. They are better than the 2014 Heat.

[TheMan]

He played on a "stacked" team. You have players supposedly that good around you, you share the ball don't you?
But if his "stacked team" isn't producing, doesn't he at some point, as the best basketball player in the world, need to step up and carry his team? MJ did it many times in his career, especially in the 98 Finals with a hobbled Pippen and an ineffective Rodman (basically just wrestled with K Malone), by carrying I mean the offensive load, you win by scoring points, your teammates are NBA players, they can help on D and grabbing boards (like Delly, Shump and TT). LeBron has no choice, he has to shoot and create shots for others and hope he'll get enough support here and there.

I like this aggressive LeBron, I hope he pulls it off so you FG% nerds finally realize the games aren't always won on stats alone, efficiency rates are not the be all, end all, way too many othe factors can come into the equation between wins and losses than just how well you shot the ball. You can win with low FG% but you need to play stellar D, grab boards and through sheer grit and determination.

[mehyaM24]

^^^^ itt idiots STILL ignoring lebron's double-digit rebounds and near double-digit assists - apparently lebron is NOW and ONLY an inefficient chucker like iverson and shot-jacker like kobe. :oldlol:

newsflash: lebron isn't a one-dimensional, volume scorer like iverson, kobe, and jordan

[plowking]

But if his "stacked team" isn't producing, doesn't he at some point, as the best basketball player in the world, need to step up and carry his team? MJ did it many times in his career, especially in the 98 Finals with a hobbled Pippen and an ineffective Rodman (basically just wrestled with K Malone), by carrying I mean the offensive load, you win by scoring points, your teammates are NBA players, they can help on D and grabbing boards (like Delly, Shump and TT). LeBron has no choice, he has to shoot and create shots for others and hope he'll get enough support here and there.

Stacked teams... they usually produce. That is the point of having a stacked team. So you have a bunch of guys you know that are going to show up every night. No one did.
Sure, they could rebound and play D. Not the Heat though, since they were the worst rebounding team in the league, while also significantly slipping on defense from the previous two seasons. Weren't even close to one of the better defensive teams in the league last year.

So no, he couldn't do much else.


I like this aggressive LeBron, I hope he pulls it off so you FG% nerds finally realize the games aren't always won on stats alone, efficiency rates are not the be all, end all, way too many othe factors can come into the equation between wins and losses than just how well you shot the ball. You can win with low FG% but you need to play stellar D, grab boards and through sheer grit and determination.

That is the problem with this forum. Some of you start arguing points you've created in your own posts and projected onto posters. :oldlol:
"You FG% nerds"... :oldlol:
Shooting a higher FG% is always better, all else held equal. That is an undeniable, 100% truth. :oldlol:
I'm always one for context, which is exactly why I believe the Cavs can win this series, where as they couldn't have won last year. Know why? Because this so called terrible Cavs roster is a better team than the 2014 Heat.

[mehyaM24]

That's not an argument.

Once again, when Kobe is putting up the all-around production LeBron has in the postseason, and particularity the finals, your point will be valid.
wow. someone gets it - shocking :eek:

[TheMan]

^^^^ itt idiots STILL ignoring lebron's double-digit rebounds and near double-digit assists - apparently lebron is NOW and ONLY an inefficient chucker like iverson and shot-jacker like kobe. :oldlol:

newsflash: lebron isn't a one-dimensional, volume scorer like iverson, kobe, and jordan
You're the idiot if you consider MJ one dimensional and a volume scorer like KB and AI :oldlol: Has LBJ ever put up the assists avg in the Finals MJ did vs the Lakers in 91? :bowdown:

[tmacattack33]

^^^^ itt idiots STILL ignoring lebron's double-digit rebounds and near double-digit assists - apparently lebron is NOW and ONLY an inefficient chucker like iverson and shot-jacker like kobe. :oldlol:


Yeah, seriously. Lebron's rebounding (which is extra important because K. Love went out) and his passing is the best part of his playoff run. And the OP is totally ignoring it.



To OP: Lebron's inefficiency is still not good. Missed shots are never good. His scoring has been a B- this playoffs. Let's add in his playmaking and rebounding and he gets an A though.

[mehyaM24]

You're the idiot if you consider MJ one dimensional :oldlol: Has LBJ ever put up the assists avg in the Finals MJ did vs the Lakers in 91? :bowdown:

when jordan was at his least efficient, he wasn't putting up the all-around numbers lebron's averaged. he wasn't taking a cast like this to the finals either (see: 1-9 without the bulls' complete player).


Yeah, seriously. Lebron's rebounding (which is extra important because K. Love went out) and his passing is the best part of his playoff run. And the OP is totally ignoring it.



To OP: Lebron's inefficiency is still not good. Missed shots are never good. His scoring has been a B- this playoffs. Let's add in his playmaking and rebounding and he gets an A though.

another one who gets it. good post brah :cheers:

[TheMan]

when jordan was at his least efficient, he wasn't putting up the all-around numbers lebron do. he wasn't take a cast like this to the finals either (see: 1-9 without the bulls' complete player).
Context you dumb fvck, that was young MJ with a worse supporting cast than these Cavs going up against the GOAT team in the 80s Celtics

Stay retarded :coleman:

[mehyaM24]

Context you dumb fvck, that was young MJ with a worse supporting cast than these Cavs going up against the GOAT team in the 80s Celtics

Stay retarded :coleman:
....which is exactly why he had to wait for pippen, a lebron-lite, to takeover the playmaking and defensive duties.


lebron's putting up all-around numbers in the FINALS that jordan could only DREAM of. well, that his teammate could only dream of really. :oldlol:

[TheMan]

....which is exactly why he had to wait for pippen, a lebron-lite, to takeover the playmaking and defensive duties.


lebron's putting up all-around numbers in the FINALS that jordan could only DREAM of. well, that his teammate could only dream of really. :oldlol:
That's why his teammate has how many FMVPs? Oh wait, none! :oldlol:
6/6 FMVPs GOAT :bowdown:

[mehyaM24]

That's why his teammate has how many FMVPs? Oh wait, none! :oldlol:

media values scoring. they, like you, have a warped sense of impact.

anybody that actually watched those bulls teams will tell you, pippen could have won fmvp multiple years during their dynasty run, especially in 1998.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1998-06-11/sports/9806110398_1_scottie-pippen-bulls-karl-malone
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/635114/What-about-Pippen-for-NBA-Finals-MVP.html?pg=all

^^^^ karl malone, sloan and stockton thought the world of pippen, not jordan. lmao

but i wont deviate from the topic at hand. lebron is not only putting in the volume scoring, ala jordan, but the all-around game pippen had....on steroids.


****ing GOAT

[SamuraiSWISH]

Your whole view of basketball is warped bro.
No. He led the Heat in all statistical categories, yes, which is amazing. And typically his Miami Heat squads were stacked. But 17 shots a game in the Finals isn't near aggressive enough when no one else is picking up the slack, or playing well, and he's the game's best current player. He's proving in this very Finals he could've done more, and been more aggressive.

[ImKobe]

He made the dagger (would be dagger if not for J R Smith playing like an idiot) three pointer, so I know 0-12 is wrong.


Also, that 0 (or whatever it is actually...since 0-12 is def wrong) would be a 6 or something, but G State fouled Lebron intentionally instead of giving him a lay up like 4-5 times during that span.

LOL dagger? there was 2-3 minutes left in the game

and it was 2-12 in the 4th quarter and OT

[plowking]

No. He led the Heat in all statistical categories, yes, which is amazing. And typically his Miami Heat squads were stacked. But 17 shots a game in the Finals isn't near aggressive enough when no one else is picking up the slack, or playing well, and he's the game's best current player. He's proving in this very Finals he could've done more, and been more aggressive.

How does the bolded not strike you as a massive contradiction?:oldlol:

[SamuraiSWISH]

but i wont deviate from the topic at hand. lebron is not only putting in the volume scoring, ala jordan, but the all-around game pippen had....on steroids.
His volume scoring is on putrid efficiency, less skilled of a scorer as Jordan, and obivously not near as clutch finishing games, or on game winning FG attempts.

But I agree. He's volume scoring like Jordan, albeit was less efficient. He has the all around floor game, versatility, and defense like Pippen. Has the court vision, leadership like Magic. And has the handle for a bigger guy like Penny or McGrady.

Besides his putrid jumper, inability to finish plays at the rim, or finish games. His stamina, leadership, and overall game has been very good. While being guarded by a great defender too.

Given context, even as it stands now, this has been his best Finals. IMO. Only 2 games deep though, so we'll see how the rest of the series plays.

[TheMan]

media values scoring. they, like you, have a warped sense of impact.

anybody that actually watched those bulls teams will tell you, pippen could have won fmvp multiple years during their dynasty run, especially in 1998.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1998-06-11/sports/9806110398_1_scottie-pippen-bulls-karl-malone
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/635114/What-about-Pippen-for-NBA-Finals-MVP.html?pg=all

^^^^ karl malone, sloan and stockton thought the world of pippen, not jordan. lmao

but i wont deviate from the topic at hand. lebron is not only putting in the volume scoring, ala jordan, but the all-around game pippen had....on steroids.


****ing GOAT
You one salty mofo :oldlol:

Pippen got hurt midway through that series, he was basically a ghost in GM 6, MJ scored a quick bucket to get the Bulls within striking distance, then he made a clutch defensive play, a strip and steal from the Mailman, then he dribbled the ball downcourt and cooly hit a jumper to give the Bulls their 6th NBA Finals title...GOAT just GOATing :bowdown:

I'll stop this little debate now because I don't want some kid who knows shit about hoops other than YouTube clips souring me from rooting for LeBron. Unlike you, I'm not an insecure stan, I know MJ's place as the GOAT is secure and I like this aggressive version of LeBron so I hope he wins, I don't need to hope he fails again, Lord knows he's failed in the Finals more than enough.

Go Cavs!

Stay mad, duBETA :oldlol:

[mehyaM24]

His volume scoring is on putrid efficiency, less skilled of a scorer as Jordan, and obivously not near as clutch finishing games, or on game winning FG attempts.

But I agree. He's volume scoring like Jordan, albeit was less efficient. He has the all around floor game, versatility, and defense like Pippen. Has the court vision, leadership like Magic. And has the handle for a bigger guy like Penny or McGrady.

Besides his putrid jumper, inability to finish plays at the rim, or finish games. His stamina, leadership, and overall game has been very good. While being guarded by a great defender too.

Given context, even as it stands now, this has been his best Finals. IMO. Only 2 games deep though, so we'll see how the rest of the series plays.

i can get used to this type of posting from you. lol good stuff coach.

i think its definitely been his best finals, but not just because of the volume scoring, it's who he's playing against as well. the warriors were a juggernaut all season, and according to the data, #1 in offense and defensive efficiency.

[mehyaM24]

You one salty mofo :oldlol:

Pippen got hurt midway through that series, he was basically a ghost in GM 6, MJ scored a quick bucket to get the Bulls within striking distance, then he made a clutch defensive play, a strip and steal from the Mailman, then he dribbled the ball downcourt and cooly hit a jumper to give the Bulls their 6th NBA Finals title...GOAT just GOATing :bowdown:

I'll stop this little debate now because I don't want some kid who knows shit about hoops other than YouTube clips souring me from rooting for LeBron. Unlike you, I'm not an insecure stan, I know MJ's place as the GOAT is secure and I like this aggressive version of LeBron so I hope he wins, I don't need to hope he fails again, Lord knows he's failed in the Finals more than enough.

Go Cavs!

Stay mad, duBETA :oldlol:

the next title lebron wins, you'll be squealing first. lmao

[SamuraiSWISH]

i can get used to this type of posting from you. lol good stuff coach.

i think its definitely been his best finals, but not just because of the volume scoring, it's who he's playing against as well. the warriors were a juggernaut all season, and according to the data, #1 in offense and defensive efficiency.
It's his most impressive. He's finally showing a touch of heart, and strong leadership. He's not caving to a more stacked team for a change. Like I said, not near the scorer MJ was. But he's still getting the necessary production in terms of volume. He's doing what he needs to do for the Cavs to win. And I tip my hat to un-cowardly play, which has been indicative of how he's played from 2010 - 2014.

[TrueBlue89]

This thread is ridiculous.

[TheMan]

It's his most impressive. He's finally showing a touch of heart, and strong leadership. He's not caving to a more stacked team for a change. Like I said, not near the scorer MJ was. But he's still getting the necessary production in terms of volume. He's doing what he needs to do for the Cavs to win. And I tip my hat to un-cowardly play, which has been indicative of how he's played from 2010 - 2014.
I think he's shown a ton of heart and I very much like this LeBron, finally playing with a no fvcks given attitude.

[Ne 1]

Being more efficient is always better. Always.

First off, what is 'better'? If a player shoots 42% in one game and loses, yet shoots 38% in another game and wins hitting two 3's in the 4'th quarter: which is better? You're saying that the loser is better and you're wrong.

[mehyaM24]

It's his most impressive. He's finally showing a touch of heart, and strong leadership. He's not caving to a more stacked team for a change. Like I said, not near the scorer MJ was. But he's still getting the necessary production in terms of volume. He's doing what he needs to do for the Cavs to win. And I tip my hat to un-cowardly play, which has been indicative of how he's played from 2010 - 2014.

lebron had his jordan 'choke' game (1989: game 5 vs detroit) in 2011, but yea, since then, he has shown a lot of heart. in the last 4 finals he's been UNREAL. this finals has been something you could look up in the future e.g. 50s and 60s stats, and think 'no way those numbers are legit' - they're like peak chamberlain/oscar numbers but of the modern day. :eek:

what GOAT's are made of :applause:

[SamuraiSWISH]

lebron had his jordan 'choke' game (1989: game 5 vs detroit) in 2011
No that was an all time worst choke series and his team was favorites to win ... were up in the series. Wasn't a singular game. Way different. LeBron had his game 5 '89 Jordan moment of frustration when he quit mid way though the 2010 ECSF. LeBron didn't play like this with heart even in last year's Finals. He folded when the going got tough, then switched back to Cleveland for more talent again.

[chazzy]

This is surprisingly similar to a 01 Sixers situation, with Lebron being a larger Iverson. Great defense with an inefficient but do-it-all player as the life force of his team's offense

[plowking]

First off, what is 'better'? If a player shoots 42% in one game and loses, yet shoots 38% in another game and wins hitting two 3's in the 4'th quarter: which is better? You're saying that the loser is better and you're wrong.

All things held equal... How does that not make sense.

If all things are held equal, the player who shoots 42% while taking the exact same shots as the one that shoots 38% wins every time.

Nothing wrong about it.

[Johnni Gade]

With the win the other day, two next homecourt games will be won. Thats 3-1, which is pretty much GG GS.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

On cue ... Front page of ESPN.com

"Why numbers don't tell Lebron story"

http://espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2015/story/_/id/13049889/2015-nba-playoffs-lebron-numbers-lie

:oldlol: