Couch Coaches: What adjustments would you make for each side?

[scm5]

GSW:

I would start doubling Lebron when JR or James Jones aren't on the floor. The rest of the Cavs aren't what I could call knockdown shooters.

If David Lee is up to it in terms of health, I would definitely play him against the Cavs. He's a very good defensive rebounder to counter TT, and TT doesn't need much defensive attention.

Cavs:

Post up Lebron, that's where he's been the most effective. His drives aren't even working as well as they normally do because of the Warriors' defense.

[3ball]

.
NONE - GS is helpless to counter the weakside spacing that allows strongside clearouts for pure, 100% isolations on the strongside (1-defender strongside):


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There is no counter to the 1-defender strongside in today's game - if MJ played today, there would be nothing preventing him from isolating against a 1-defender strongside on EVERY PLAY..

In Lebron's case, he isolates the most often of any player in the entire league, despite having low isolation efficiency stats.. In regular season, Lebron ranked only 78th out of 350 in isolation PPP, while his FG% ranked 117th out of 350.. In the playoffs, Lebron is 35th out of 40 in isolation PPP, and 30th out of 40 in FG%.

http://stats.nba.com/playtype/#!/isolation/?dir=1&sort=Time&Season=2014-15&SeasonType=Playoffs

If Lebron can isolate more often than anyone else and find team success despite such low efficiency stats, what impact would MJ's league-leading isolation efficiency have?

[1~Gibson~1]

Make Steph Curry guard the pick and roll more often from the top of the key. That way if a double team comes someone will be wide open.

Match lebron against klay thompson.
Try Shawn Marion against klay thompson.
And I would use Perkins more often to give Mozgov and TT more rest. Hopefully they wont get burned out.

[scm5]

I wouldn't call GSW weak against it considering they've held him to such low efficiency. The Cavs have just been amazing on defense and rebounding so far which is what has killed the Warriors.

[ClipperRevival]

The sad part for GSW is that their bigs just can't compete with CLE bigs down low. And they don't really have anyone besides Green/Bogut to improve their presence down low. They have invested too much on shooting and athleticism at the wing that they are very weak in the bigs department.

That is their biggest issue. Bron can get his 40 ppg but if they continue to give up possession after possession to Tristan/Mosgov after missed shots, they are in trouble.

I don't know if you have to put Green at the 5 and try to play up tempo and force one of their bigs to sit.

And I would consider throwing hard doubles at LeBron. This half ass showing and not doubling is not going to work. If you are going to double, double hard and then go back to your guy.

LeBron has been so dominant in iso situations that the idea of allowing his teammates to get involved and take something away from Bron might be the better idea. Make JR/Shump/Dell prove they can hit the 3 consistently. Don't let Bron beat you.

[3ball]

I would start doubling Lebron


**** no.

GS should keep doing EXACTLY what they are doing.

If Lebron beats them shooting 40% and running inefficient iso's every possession, then it will be due to GSW's offense - their horrific OFFENSE in this series is why they can't get any separation from the Cavs.

Now if Lebron was shooting 50% or something like that, then you have HAVE to double.. You have no choice - but we have a big enough sample size to know that he CAN'T shoot 50% at that high a volume.

[scm5]

**** no.

GS should keep doing EXACTLY what they are doing.

If Lebron beats them shooting 40% and running inefficient iso's every possession, then it will be due to GSW's offense - their horrific OFFENSE in this series is why they can't get any separation from the Cavs.

Now if Lebron was shooting 50% or something like that, then you have HAVE to double.. You have no choice - but we have a big enough sample size to know that he CAN'T shoot 50% at that high a volume.

The Warriors are a great transition/fast break team. If they double Lebron, they'll be forcing him to pass out of more tough situations instead of racking up assists or putting up a shot and having enough time to get back on defense. Lebron is capable of high turnover games and they should try to force it at times.

Right now, the Cavs are forcing the Warriors to play at their pace/tempo and it's keeping the Cavs in the game. I think doubling Lebron might create more turnovers in general as he's their best playmaker and if you take him out of the equation, the Cavs will make more mistakes.

[ClipperRevival]

**** no.

GS should keep doing EXACTLY what they are doing.

If Lebron beats them shooting 40% and running inefficient iso's every possession, then it will be due to GSW's offense - their horrific OFFENSE in this series is why they can't get any separation from the Cavs.

Now if Lebron was shooting 50% or something like that, then you have HAVE to double.. You have no choice - but we have a big enough sample size to know that he CAN'T shoot 50% at that high a volume.

It's not JUST about his fg pct. It's about him dictating the pace of the game and slowing it down. And when Bron gets to milk the clock every possession and either takes the shot himself or sets someone up, it goes against what GSW wants to do. They tried letting Bron get his and realistically, GSW could very well be down 0-2. It's not working.

You need to try to dictate the action and double Bron and force the ball out of his hands. Maybe you can create some turnovers. You might get some bad shots by the less talented supporting cast. GSW want to play up tempo. Letting Bron play iso on every possession doesn't let them do this.

[ClipperRevival]

The Warriors are a great transition/fast break team. If they double Lebron, they'll be forcing him to pass out of more tough situations instead of racking up assists or putting up a shot and having enough time to get back on defense. Lebron is capable of high turnover games and they should try to force it at times.

Right now, the Cavs are forcing the Warriors to play at their pace/tempo and it's keeping the Cavs in the game. I think doubling Lebron might create more turnovers in general as he's their best playmaker and if you take him out of the equation, the Cavs will make more mistakes.

LOL. I said the same thing a minute after you. :applause:

[3ball]

It's not working.


You have a point about how double-teaming Lebron would prevent Lebron from bogging the entire halfcourt possession down with his monopolization of the ball - this does help the Cavs control pace and prevent GS from getting off.

However, they should only double him in VERY SPECIFIC SPOTS.. It can't be a blind approach to double-teaming.. They'd better formulate some Lebron Rules or something..

But again, I still think it comes down to the GS offense - Lebron is taking 36 shots to get his 40 PPG - I still don't think his offense is the problem.. The problem is that GSW's standard offensive, juggernaut capability is absent in this series - their offensive rating is only 102 so far... it was 107 vs. Memphis, 111 vs. Houston, and 112 in the regular season (#1 in league).. If GS wasn't choking offensively, this series would be a sweep.

But GS is choking under the bright lights as I predicted.. It's their first time in the Finals, and they can't get their offense going - btw, IF they do, you will see a 25 point blowout... Don't say I didn't warn you - also, if they get that blowout, it's coming in Game 3.

[scm5]

LOL. I said the same thing a minute after you. :applause:

Pretty much! Completely agree with you :cheers:

[ClipperRevival]

Nah, if GS was playing up to their standard offensive, juggernaut capability - like they have all year - this series would be a sweep.

But GS is choking under the bright lights as I predicted.. It's their first time in the Finals, and they can't get their offense going - btw, IF they do, you will see a 25 point blowout... Don't say I didn't warn you - also, if they get that blowout, it's coming in Game 3.

A blowout win for GSW would not surprise me. But the biggest two issues why GSW can't play up tempo is because of the Bron isos and the Clev bigs completely controlling the boards down low. So no rebounds equals no chance to run.

I don't think they can control the bigs situation much but they can control the Bron iso situation by throwing hard doubles at him and forcing someone else to beat him.

[Orlando Magic]

GSW needs to run 2 man screens every single time Curry is trying to get open otherwise Dildo is going to frustrate him for the remainder of the series. Curry obviously can't shake Dildo without a double screen. Dildo fights through a single screen extremely well, so... double screens or Curry is locked up.

[3ball]

A blowout win for GSW would not surprise me. But the biggest two issues why GSW can't play up tempo is because of the Bron isos and the Clev bigs completely controlling the boards down low. So no rebounds equals no chance to run.

I don't think they can control the bigs situation much but they can control the Bron iso situation by throwing hard doubles at him and forcing someone else to beat him.
You have a point about how double-teaming Lebron would prevent Lebron from bogging the entire halfcourt possession down with his monopolization of the ball - this does help the Cavs control pace and prevent GS from getting off.

However, they should only double him in VERY SPECIFIC SPOTS.. It can't be a blind approach to double-teaming.. They'd better formulate some Lebron Rules or something.. But again, I'd prefer GS to just play up to par offensively... Making Lebron take 36 shots for 40 points is a good thing.
.

[scm5]

Nah, if GS was playing up to their standard offensive, juggernaut capability - like they have all year - this series would be a sweep.

But GS is choking under the bright lights as I predicted.. It's their first time in the Finals, and they can't get their offense going - btw, IF they do, you will see a 25 point blowout... Don't say I didn't warn you - also, if they get that blowout, it's coming in Game 3.

I don't know if you're even watching the same game as us. They held the Cavs to jsut 32.2% shooting last night. They are still a defensive juggernaut.

They have just been outrebounded and haven't been able to dictate the pace of the game. In a slower, half court offense, the Cavs are the better team. The Warriors play their best in transition.

[Orlando Magic]

A blowout win for GSW would not surprise me. But the biggest two issues why GSW can't play up tempo is because of the Bron isos and the Clev bigs completely controlling the boards down low. So no rebounds equals no chance to run.

I don't think they can control the bigs situation much but they can control the Bron iso situation by throwing hard doubles at him and forcing someone else to beat him.

If they start throwing doubles at him then Shumpert, Smith and Dildo are going to actually become relevant offensively in a hurry.

I personally think that GSW is defending the Cavs as well as any team can... live with LeBron's jumpers and keep at him with single coverage. The only real problem in their strategy right now is that he gets closer to the basket they do tend to finally double or triple.

LeBron can't play 48 minutes taking every shot which is what would happen if ALL Warriors just stayed home 100% of the time on their man and never doubled LeBron.

[navy]

The Warriors need to deny Lebron the ball completely. If you double make sure it's off TT. Although, it's much harder to deny Lebron the ball then say someone like Durant who can just be pushed off his spot. Lebron can just stand his ground. There was one play where they sagged off Shumpert and he couldnt get Lebron the ball.

The truth is nobody on the Cav should be allowed to dribble and half these guys cant score.

[3ball]

They are still a defensive juggernaut.


I didn't say the Warriors were playing below their norm defensively... I said OFFENSIVELY - read it again.

Their offense is far below what they have done all year - they are choking offensively.. Obviously, their defense is superb... Making Lebron take 36 shots for 40 points is exactly what you want.. Lebron is basically Iverson scoring-wise, yet GS can't take advantage because they can't score.

Btw, even though doubling Lebron could change the pace in GSW's favor - it could also result in disaster if the supporting cast gets more involved and/or hot.. I much prefer letting Lebron take 36 shots to score 40, and hope my offense returns to THE NORM

[Orlando Magic]

The Warriors need to deny Lebron the ball completely.

K, so... that is quite literally, impossible. LeBron would have to go out with a season ending injury. I was going to say win the jump ball at the beginning of the day and get unlimited offensive rebounds and unlimited misses but then I remembered that the jump ball losing team gets the ball at the beginning of the second quarter.

[Orlando Magic]

I didn't say the Warriors were playing below their norm defensively... I said OFFENSIVELY - read it again.

Their offense is far below what they have done all year - they are choking offensively.. Obviously, their defense is superb... Making Lebron take 36 shots for 40 points is exactly what you want.. Lebron is basically Iverson scoring-wise, yet GS can't take advantage because they can't score.

Btw, even though doubling Lebron could change the pace in GSW's favor - it could also result in disaster if the supporting cast gets more involved and/or hot.. I much prefer letting Lebron take 36 shots to score 40, and hope my offense returns to THE NORM

The Warriors aren't choking. Dildo is playing Curry about as well as you can play him and Irving had a great defensive game in game 1 on Curry. That's a big part of the reason their offense is falling apart.

[ClipperRevival]

If they start throwing doubles at him then Shumpert, Smith and Dildo are going to actually become relevant offensively in a hurry.

I personally think that GSW is defending the Cavs as well as any team can... live with LeBron's jumpers and keep at him with single coverage. The only real problem in their strategy right now is that he gets closer to the basket they do tend to finally double or triple.

LeBron can't play 48 minutes taking every shot which is what would happen if ALL Warriors just stayed home 100% of the time on their man and never doubled LeBron.

Yeah, but Clev could very well be up 0-2 with this strategy. You might be right. Maybe Bron slows down a bit and that tips the scales.

But after 2 games, I do not want to see Bron get free range on iso after iso situations. He is also dictating the pace of the game by doing this. GSW needs to force the action. Throw doubles and possibly force turnovers and make someone else beat you. They can't just let Bron dictate the pace of the game like that.

[navy]

K, so... that is quite literally, impossible. LeBron would have to go out with a season ending injury. I was going to say win the jump ball at the beginning of the day and get unlimited offensive rebounds and unlimited misses but then I remembered that the jump ball losing team gets the ball at the beginning of the second quarter.
You can deny Lebron the ball, but you need at least two guys to do it. I would do it more and force someone else to playmake.

[3ball]

The Warriors need to deny Lebron the ball completely.


No they don't..

Lebron is currently taking 36 shots to get 40 points, which is exactly what you want..

Lebron is basically Iverson scoring-wise, yet GS can't take advantage because they can't score - GS is playing FAR below their standard on offense, (while playing their normal great D).

[ClipperRevival]

Problem with a guy like Curry is his game is based exclusively on finesse. So if you body him up and get physical with him, it can throw off his rhythm rather quickly. Curry needs space to operate. And Dell isn't giving that to him. But the guy is a great player. He had an off night. I think he will bounce back big time in game 3.

[Orlando Magic]

You can deny Lebron the ball, but you need at least two guys to do it. I would do it more and force someone else to playmake.

LeBron brings the ball up the court AT LEAST half of the time. Are you going to try to double on the inbounds for the ENTIRE game? This isn't college and that shit won't work against NBA players.


Yeah, but Clev could very well be up 0-2 with this strategy. You might be right. Maybe Bron slows down a bit and that tips the scales.

But after 2 games, I do not want to see Bron get free range on iso after iso situations. He is also dictating the pace of the game by doing this. GSW needs to force the action. Throw doubles and possibly force turnovers and make someone else beat you. They can't just let Bron dictate the pace of the game like that.

He is shooting horribly in part because as is he is currently running out of gas by halftime in comparison to his starting tank.

The Warriors are not completely dominating because they are having a hard time getting Curry open and the Cavs are absolutely swarming him. It's pretty much that simple.

If the Warriors start giving Curry 2 screens instead of 1 to come off of, he's going to start getting open jumpers or a Warrior with a clear path to the basket. Dildo does too good a job beating 1 screen while Curry is trying to get open.

[HurricaneKid]

Ugh. TT is able to switch out on all picks including Curry without getting hurt. Someone actually wants to to replace that with Perk? You want to see Perk defend curry 24' from the hoop in ISO action? Thats really MEAN. I mean think of the humiliation.

Doubling LeBron immediately improves the Cavs efficiency. Now guys like Jones, Shump, Delly can make major contributions by just catching and shooting open 3s.

GSW Adjustments
If anything, GSW needs to either pull Bogut out earlier or run more PnRs off him. Blatt won't play Mozzy without Bogut in the game. Blatt is playing his best defensive lineups first and foremost. And he should; thats what LeBron's continued ISO action allows. With the front side help from the GS bigs there is position to cut and even if that is closed off it provides offensive rebounding opportunities. But when Mozzy is guarding Bogut GSW should set high left side PnRs for Curry with Bogut. Curry's man has to fight over the screen to prevent the shot and Mozzy isn't up high enough so GSW essentially have the option to run a 2 on 1 with Steph and Bogut running at Mozzy.

CLE Adjustments
They have been clinical to this point. They expanded the ISO action to include PnRs first to get the Xmatches they want then they force GSW into uncomfortable positions. Everything they have done so far has been to attack GSW weaknesses and their counters. Its been clinical. They have been the better team to this point solely because of the Xs and Os. TT has been amazing as a defender and even when Curry gets him on an island he hasn't been hurt. That kind of flexibility is remarkable at this level. But Blatt has been wearing him out. In the two games he has avg ~44 min which is above his season/postseason high. He got him some rest in G2 because Mozzy was playing so well. He needs to be careful about the minute loads. He basically played 7 guys last night in the second consec OT game (played 8 but MM only played 6 min) and they have a travel day and play tomorrow. He needs to be careful not to burn the guys out.

[scm5]

I didn't say the Warriors were playing below their norm defensively... I said OFFENSIVELY - read it again.

Their offense is far below what they have done all year - they are choking offensively.. Obviously, their defense is superb... Making Lebron take 36 shots for 40 points is exactly what you want.. Lebron is basically Iverson scoring-wise, yet GS can't take advantage because they can't score.

Btw, even though doubling Lebron could change the pace in GSW's favor - it could also result in disaster if the supporting cast gets more involved and/or hot.. I much prefer letting Lebron take 36 shots to score 40, and hope my offense returns to THE NORM

My bad, i did read it wrong.

FG% aside, if the Warriors can change the pace in their favor, they will be more comfortable throughout the course of the game. They will also be able to rely on their bench more as they would tire the Cavs out by forcing them to run more.

Running more would tire Lebron out which is one of the most important things. The Cavs' starters have shown that they can hang with the Warriors' starters. The Warriors need to tire them out and utilize their bench which is their greatest strength.

[chazzy]

GSW's problem is offense, not defense. The Cavs had the 3rd worst ortg in a finals win ever. LeBron iso takes away the Warriors transition opportunities so they need to find a way to get Curry cleaner looks in the half court

[ClipperRevival]

How many times has Mosgov/Tristan kept possessions alive after a missed shot on the offensive end with tips to their teammates? I could swear I saw at least 12-15 of them in two games. That is incredibly huge for Clev and utterly devastating for GSW.

And that's on top of Mosgov/Tristan out rebounding Bogut/Green 48 to 33 in the first two games. So if you add in the additional extra possessions from the tips, Clev's two bigs could be giving their team almost twice the possessions.

I think that has been the biggest factor in the first two games. Sure, Bron doing his thing is impressive but still not shocking but Clev's bigs completely controlling the paint has allowed Clev to compete with GSW.

[PP34Deuce]

GSW can't dictate pace because the CAVS are more physical. People act like it's a fluke but Shump and Bron always get back in transition. Bron still has the intimidation factor if you try going at him. CAVS have the players to minimize fast break and transion 3 opportunities.

I like what one poster had said about Draymond Green. He feasted against people he naturally out hustles. Tristan Thompson is a less offensive version of him and actually is better at hustling and rebounding. His CORE advantage has been taken away by someone who consistently does it a little better than him.

CAVS respect the hell out of GSW 3 point shooters. Even when Barbosa is in there, they have taken notice and prevented them from getting off scoring wise.

CAVS can go small with this team. James Jones is not as big of liability due to his ability to hit 3's. I do believe Shawn Marion for 8-10 minutes can rebound and play defense to spell Thompson and Lebron.

GSW can't double Lebron every single time because he's big enough to shield defenders and he also brings the ball up. You can also have Lebron inbound the ball and watch him race down with a pass.

The bench is what hurts cleveland but they match up EXTREMELY well with the starters. The bench of GSW is a jack of all trades unit. No one but Barbosa is dangerous shooter.

[PP34Deuce]

How many times has Mosgov/Tristan kept possessions alive after a missed shot on the offensive end with tips to their teammates? I could swear I saw at least 12-15 of them in two games. That is incredibly huge for Clev and utterly devastating for GSW.

And that's on top of Mosgov/Tristan out rebounding Bogut/Green 48 to 33 in the first two games. So if you add in the additional extra possessions from the tips, Clev's two bigs could be giving their team almost twice the possessions.

I think that has been the biggest factor in the first two games. Sure, Bron doing his thing is impressive but still not shocking but Clev's bigs completely controlling the paint has allowed Clev to compete with GSW.

Lebron, TT, and Mozgof in your front court... You're not outworking that team when each guy is capable 12 plus rebounds in a game.

[ClipperRevival]

Lebron, TT, and Mozgof in your front court... You're not outworking that team when each guy is capable 12 plus rebounds in a game.

And I think that's why GSW has to try to dictate their lineup by going small and forcing Blatt to take out Mosgov. And throw hard doubles at Bron. Not all the time but when he gets it within 10 feet of the basket. That way, you pick up the pace of the game, take out one of their bigs and have more opportunities to score in transition. GSW wants to run, they are not nearly as efficient on offense in the half court and that's where they have been for the most of 2 games. The pace has completely favored Clev.

[PP34Deuce]

And I think that's why GSW has to try to dictate their lineup by going small and forcing Blatt to take out Mosgov. And throw hard doubles at Bron. Not all the time but when he gets it within 10 feet of the basket. That way, you pick up the pace of the game, take out one of their bigs and have more opportunities to score in transition. GSW wants to run, they are not nearly as efficient on offense in the half court and that's where they have been for the most of 2 games. The pace has completely favored Clev.

If you double Bron 10 feet in, he still has amazing passing ability. I've noticed GSW in game 2 started doubling him once he get deep position, he was either able to find a shooter or rise up and draw the foul.

Lebron is not as quick as he was in 2013 but this version of Lebron is a lot more tougher mentally and more dialed in. He truly is dictating the pace and credit goes to Blatt as well.

[ClipperRevival]

If you double Bron 10 feet in, he still has amazing passing ability. I've noticed GSW in game 2 started doubling him once he get deep position, he was either able to find a shooter or rise up and draw the foul.

Lebron is not as quick as he was in 2013 but this version of Lebron is a lot more tougher mentally and more dialed in. He truly is dictating the pace and credit goes to Blatt as well.

At this point, you have to make a decision. You double him, he finds the open man. Continue to single cover him and he dictates the pace of the game.

To me, the pace of the game is huge for GSW. Curry mentioned that post-game. How they need to get more shots in rhythm and transition. That's their game.

So I would take my chances with throwing some doubles at LeBron, get it out of his hands and see if I can generate some turnovers. And you start getting a couple of those and the complexion of the game can change. Basketball is a game of momentum. It's hard to get momentum if you can't play at the pace you want.

Either way, you take chances but all I know is GSW could very well be down 0-2 by primarily single covering him and the pace of the game has completely favored Clev.

[jlip]

I do like something the Cavs have been doing defensively that has helped to dictate pace, and they should keep doing this. I've observed that James Jones, especially, has been doing this. When his man is inbounding the ball to Curry he is doubling Curry to make it harder for him to get the ball, and he is also helping out as Curry is bringing the ball up the court. This simple stategy takes an additional ~2-4 seconds off the shot clock and also contributes to making Curry more fatigued.

[PP34Deuce]

I do like something the Cavs have been doing defensively that has helped to dictate pace, and they should keep doing this. I've observed that James Jones, especially, has been doing this. When his man is inbounding the ball to Curry he is doubling Curry to make it harder for him to get the ball, and he is also helping out as Curry is bringing the ball up the court. This simple stategy takes an additional ~2-4 seconds off the shot clock and also contributes to making Curry more fatigued.

Great observation. I definitely see them doing "soft" traps not to cause turnovers but to prevent a transition 3.

[ClipperRevival]

This series has exploited a huge flaw in today's game: boxing out. It's no longer a basic, part of basketball anymore. Guys just stand there and hope the ball comes to them instead of putting their butt on a body and boxing out. You can be a little guy and still outrebound the bigger guy if you get good position, get leverage and box out. That's a lost art in today's game. It's disgusting to see a big like Bogut have to resort of grabbing and holding because they were caught just standing around.

[HurricaneKid]

This series has exploited a huge flaw in today's game: boxing out. It's no longer a basic, part of basketball anymore. Guys just stand there and hope the ball comes to them instead of putting their butt on a body and boxing out. You can be a little guy and still outrebound the bigger guy if you get good position, get leverage and box out. That's a lost art in today's game. It's disgusting to see a big like Bogut have to resort of grabbing and holding because they were caught just standing around.

No, the problem is that once a player gets rebounding position and boxes out the officials will allow the other player to cave in his back. So the defensive player is left to do that bs.

If I were in charge of officials rebounding and picks would be cleaned up. The picks that are getting set are absurd.

[ClipperRevival]

No, the problem is that once a player gets rebounding position and boxes out the officials will allow the other player to cave in his back. So the defensive player is left to do that bs.

If I were in charge of officials rebounding and picks would be cleaned up. The picks that are getting set are absurd.

I guess we are watching a different game then. I remember my high school coach telling me anytime the shot goes up, I want you to put your butt on a body and push him out until the 3 point line. It is without a doubt a lost art in today's game. And it's not surprising because it's such specialized a game today based on athleticism, spacing, p&r and 3 point shooting. There is no need to do something as physical as boxing out.

[Velocirap31]

GS - Gang rebound, box out better. More ball movement needed. Curry needs to facilitate more, drive and dish.

Cavs - More post-ups for Lebron, others need to slash more and move around instead of watching Lebron. Stick with single coverage and neutralize the Warrior 3's.

[iznogood]

This series has exploited a huge flaw in today's game: boxing out. It's no longer a basic, part of basketball anymore. Guys just stand there and hope the ball comes to them instead of putting their butt on a body and boxing out. You can be a little guy and still outrebound the bigger guy if you get good position, get leverage and box out. That's a lost art in today's game. It's disgusting to see a big like Bogut have to resort of grabbing and holding because they were caught just standing around.
I think you're general observations are wrong. You'll always have guys who are great at boxing out and those who never got used to it, since they either had the height advantage or were athletic enough to get the rebounds. That's the way it always was. As for the boxing out itself, I also believe it's much more physical than it used to be. There's more pushing and generally more contact that would be considered a foul in some of the previous eras

As for Bogut, I just think you made your opinion based on a one or a couple of plays. Bogut is normally very good at boxing out, he's elite. Sometimes you just don't get the chance to box out. Maybe the other guy already positions himself in a way where you would be giving him too much of a space if you relocated yourself to be able to lower your body base. Or he's already on the move and boxing him out would mean you're fouling him. Sometimes the guy is going to be quicker and have a great motor and will find a way to outmaneuver you you when you turn your back to him and you just have to box him out face up.

Boxing out is definitely not a lost art of today's basketball. Just look at how some of the smaller guys like Dellavedova or Chris Paul box out bigger players. Yes, there are guys, that are bad at it, but Bogut is not one of them.

[chips93]

the warriors defensive scheme is pretty good imo. they are tied because of their struggling offense, not their defense. having said that, id start iggy. he is giving bron way more trouble than barnes is, and its not like barnes is a much better offensive player.

offensively, just slow down a little, the shots will start to fall.

for the cavs, id play more small ball, with tristan or mozzy as the only big, and give jones more minutes to stretch the defense. i think their defensive game plan at the moment is working well, and i wouldnt change much.

force the ball out of currys hands, into draymonds, and make him hit a jumper. he is looking to drive to the cup, or throw the oop.

so you send two guys at curry on the pick and roll, stick to the other 2 shooters, and the remaining big can stick to bogut at the rim, and only rotate off him to stop a draymond dunk, or force draymond to thread the needle to bogut.

[ClipperRevival]

I think you're general observations are wrong. You'll always have guys who are great at boxing out and those who never got used to it, since they either had the height advantage or were athletic enough to get the rebounds. That's the way it always was. As for the boxing out itself, I also believe it's much more physical than it used to be. There's more pushing and generally more contact that would be considered a foul in some of the previous eras

As for Bogut, I just think you made your opinion based on a one or a couple of plays. Bogut is normally very good at boxing out, he's elite. Sometimes you just don't get the chance to box out. Maybe the other guy already positions himself in a way where you would be giving him too much of a space if you relocated yourself to be able to lower your body base. Or he's already on the move and boxing him out would mean you're fouling him. Sometimes the guy is going to be quicker and have a great motor and will find a way to outmaneuver you you when you turn your back to him and you just have to box him out face up.

Boxing out is definitely not a lost art of today's basketball. Just look at how some of the smaller guys like Dellavedova or Chris Paul box out bigger players. Yes, there are guys, that are bad at it, but Bogut is not one of them.

You think the game today is more physical? Hmmm.

Are there some guys who box out today? Of course. It's a fundamental part of basketball. Just like there are still some bigs today that have solid, post up games. But is it used with the frequency like it should be by the bigs? Absolutely not. Not even close. How much time in today's game do you think coaches go over boxing out drills? I mean seriously? In this day of 3 point shooting, no contact allowed, space the floor, p&r, etc?

And I agree Bogut was a bad example. The guy plays low to the ground and usually uses good leverage to get positioning. But he's been getting killed by Mosgov so far.

[iznogood]

You think the game today is more physical? Hmmm.

Are there some guys who box out today? Of course. It's a fundamental part of basketball. Just like there are still some bigs today that have solid, post up games. But is it used with the frequency like it should be by the bigs? Absolutely not. Not even close. How much time in today's game do you think coaches go over boxing out drills? I mean seriously? In this day of 3 point shooting, no contact allowed, space the floor, p&r, etc?

And I agree Bogut was a bad example. The guy plays low to the ground and usually uses good leverage to get positioning. But he's been getting killed by Mosgov so far.
Yes, I do believe the game today is more physical in many ways, especially battling for the position without the ball. I'll agree it's easier to draw a contact with the ball and that the hard and dirty fouls are officiated stricter, but the amount of contact these guys through playing off the ball and all the moving screens that are tolerated in todays game add to overall physicality in a great way.

When you're saying the coaches don't stress the boxing out drills you're just speculating. There's literally now we can know how much do they stress boxing out. But I'll say that, basketball is a game of habits and that especially goes for boxing out. There's no way that somebody that is not used to box out by the age of 20 or so will be good in this element. No amount of drills will drastically change that. And this is something you can drill a lot and some players still won't execute in game for the reasons I mentioned above. If you ever coached you'd know that.