Most Impactful Players of All Time

[warriorfan]

Highest on/off court point differentials of all time.

1. 96 Jordan +980
2. 15 Curry +911
3. 96 Pippen +899
4. 09 James +871

[iTare]

F*ck that.

Shaq
MJ
LeBron
Kareem
Magic

BAM!

[CavaliersFTW]

Against the Warriors? Mathew Dellavedova.

http://pbs.twimg.com/media/CG8tBidVIAI43Q7.png

[Young X]

Those are just on numbers not on/off.

What Lebron did with that '09 Cavs team is unbelievable. The fact that he had that team playing at that level when he was on the court is ridiculous. His entire '09 season from start to finish is easily one of the greatest ever.

[BlakFrankWhite]

Kevin Durant

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Matthew Dellavedova

[DFish24]

Blake Griffin

[Prime_Shaq]

Shaq.

[warriorfan]

Against the Warriors? Mathew Dellavedova.

http://pbs.twimg.com/media/CG8tBidVIAI43Q7.png

Nice sample size. You don't know shit about basketball, stick to archiving grainy footage of Wilt vs small white guys. :oldlol:

[aj1987]

Nice sample size. You don't know shit about basketball, stick to archiving grainy footage of Wilt vs small white guys. :oldlol:
Are you trying to insinuate that '15 Curry is better than any version of MJ (other than '96 MJ, obviously), Shaq, Kareem, Hakeem, Magic, Bird, Timmy, etc.?

[Marchesk]

Carmelo Anthony

[warriorfan]

Are you trying to insinuate that '15 Curry is better than any version of MJ (other than '96 MJ, obviously), Shaq, Kareem, Hakeem, Magic, Bird, Timmy, etc.?

Numbers don't lie brother. Care to explain why no one in the history of the game has a higher +/- than Jordan or Curry? I'm all ears.

[Dave3]

Numbers don't lie brother. Care to explain why no one in the history of the game has a higher +/- than Jordan or Curry? I'm all ears.
I would love to see the site you got this. I'm curious about the rest of the list.

[warriorfan]

I would love to see the site you got this. I'm curious about the rest of the list.

this cat is so shook he is denying the number's authenticity :lol

[aj1987]

Numbers don't lie brother. Care to explain why no one in the history of the game has a higher +/- than Jordan or Curry? I'm all ears.
+/- might be one of the most retarded stat when no context is given. The Warriors' starting 5 is the best in the league and Curry whenever Curry is on the floor, he's almost always playing with the best lineup in the league.


this cat is so shook he is denying the number's authenticity :lol
Did you even read his entire post?

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

4 is a weird number to stop at..................why not post #5 Draymond Green:lol :lol :lol

[VengefulAngel]

Did you even read his entire post?

He know's he's speaking full of shit, so went into defensive mode when someone asked a question to see the list out of curiosity.

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

Those are just on numbers not on/off.

What Lebron did with that '09 Cavs team is unbelievable. The fact that he had that team playing at that level when he was on the court is ridiculous. His entire '09 season from start to finish is easily one of the greatest ever.
Yet he got outplayed by Fright and bounced in 6 with HCA against a team that was less talented than his:lol :lol :lol

[warriorfan]

+/- might be one of the most retarded stat when no context is given. The Warriors' starting 5 is the best in the league and Curry whenever Curry is on the floor, he's almost always playing with the best lineup in the league.


Did you even read his entire post?


Klay Thompson
Harrison Barnes
Draymond Green
Andrew Bogut


Best starting 4 in the league? Sounds like a stretch.

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

Klay Thompson
Harrison Barnes
Draymond Green
Andrew Bogut


Best starting 4 in the league? Sounds like a stretch.
Then why is Draymond in top 5 with +861? Why is Klay in the top 15? Why is Iggy and Bogut in the top 50? :lol :lol
take this L sonny, youve exposed urself as a steph dckrider and not a real warriors fan:applause: :applause:

[aj1987]

Klay Thompson
Harrison Barnes
Draymond Green
Andrew Bogut


Best starting 4 in the league? Maybe but it's not clear and dry. Best starting 4 in the past 30 years(the period which these statistics were accrued)? That is a stretch.
:roll:

Dude, do you even know how +/- works? Curry is +911 because he plays with the best lineup in the league. Put that lineup in '96 and it may not do as well, but they're playing in '15 and they are the best lineup in the league.

That's the same reason why '96 MJ and '96 Pippen are that high. They were playing on possibly the GOAT team. '91 MJ >>>>> '96 MJ and is possibly the GOAT season as well, but your stat says that '96 MJ, '96 Pippen, '15 Curry, and '09 LeBron are better than '91 MJ.

[warriorfan]

Then why is Draymond in top 5 with +861? Why is Klay in the top 15? Why is Iggy and Bogut in the top 50? :lol :lol
take this L sonny, youve exposed urself as a steph dckrider and not a real warriors fan:applause: :applause:

Why do you claim Iggy as FMVP when he is in the top 50 while Curry is number 2? You have exposed yourself as a butthurt CP3 diccrider. Come back when CP3 makes the Conference Finals. It's cool, I aint holding my breath :lol

[warriorfan]

:roll:

Dude, do you even know how +/- works? Curry is +911 because he plays with the best lineup in the league. Put that lineup in '96 and it may not do as well, but they're playing in '15 and they are the best lineup in the league.

That's the same reason why '96 MJ and '96 Pippen are that high. They were playing on possibly the GOAT team. '91 MJ >>>>> '96 MJ and is possibly the GOAT season as well, but your stat says that '96 MJ, '96 Pippen, '15 Curry, and '09 LeBron are better than '91 MJ.


So Steph Curry is leading one of the GOAT teams just like Jordan lead the 96' Bulls? I agree.

[Dave3]

this cat is so shook he is denying the number's authenticity :lol
Getting a link can't be that hard right?

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

Why do you claim Iggy as FMVP when he is in the top 50 while Curry is number 2? You have exposed yourself as a butthurt CP3 diccrider. Come back when CP3 makes the Conference Finals. It's cool, I aint holding my breath :lol
B/c its been 2 games? i never said Iggy was a better player than Curry throughout the regular season or playoffs u insecure betamale :lol:. And do u not see how ridiculous it is that Iggy, Draymond and Klay are that high for top 50 ALLTIME? Thats about how many players there are in a conference finals in both :lol:

He is easily ahead of Steph in FMVP rankings so far. He was the best player on either team in game 1, still played amazing D in game 2. Steph had one of the worst performances ever in game 2

[aj1987]

So Steph Curry is leading one of the GOAT teams just like Jordan lead the 96' Bulls? I agree.
Probably. He's the best player on a legit all time great team. This Warriors team is stacked beyond belief.

[warriorfan]

Probably. He's the best player on a legit all time great team. This Warriors team is stacked beyond belief.

Thompson
Barnes
Green
Bogut
Iguodala
Livingston
Barbosa
Ezili



yeah this team is stacked beyond belief :lol

[Dro]

Nice sample size. You don't know shit about basketball, stick to archiving grainy footage of Wilt vs small white guys. :oldlol:
You have Curry #2 greatest impact based on stats and yet, the other guy doesn't know sh*t about basketball?

:lol

[Quickening]

Green is 5th? :lol :roll: :lol

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

Thompson
Barnes
Green
Bogut
Iguodala
Livingston
Barbosa
Ezili



yeah this team is stacked beyond belief :lol
Klay-2nd best SG, top 5 shooter, top 5 defender @SG
Green- top 15 player, most versatile defender since KG, great playmaker, can do everything well, DPOY defense
Iggy- DPOY defense, best 6th man in the league by far, great ball handler, one of the best transition players on both ends, would start on any team besides GS and Chicago
Bogut-DPOY defense, top 5 center, great rebounder and passer, best rim protector
Livingston-would start on alot of teams in the league, great post game, very good defender, can do it all
Ezeli-one of the best defensive backups in the league, great rebounder, rim protector and finisher
Speights-the best scoring big man outside of the stars
Lee-would start on most teams, double double threat, top 5 roll man, big man finisher and big man passer
Barnes-very good player, would start on alot of teams, great postgame, good defense and rebounding, can guard 2-4 well, plays within scheme expertly
Barbosa-not that good, great in transition and can make open shots and drive

Kerr- top 5 coach
Ron Adams - best or 2nd best defensive mind with Thibs, top tier defensive schemes/adjustments
Gentry-top 5 offensive mind

stacked is an understatement

[aj1987]

Thompson
Barnes
Green
Bogut
Iguodala
Livingston
Barbosa
Ezili



yeah this team is stacked beyond belief :lol
2 DPOY candidates (Green & Bogut), a borderline All-D starter (Klay), an ELITE defender off the bench (Iggy), the MVP, runner up COY, All-Star and All-NBA player (Klay and Curry), and then you have VERY good role-players like Barnes and Livingston. So, yeah, this Warriors team is stacked AF.

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

Green is 5th? :lol :roll: :lol
Yup at +861..........notice how OP conveniently left him off:lol :lol :lol :lol

[Dave3]

Green is 5th? :lol :roll: :lol
Hey warriorfan, nvm about my request for the list. I'm all of a sudden a lot less curious.

[Dro]

Thompson
Barnes
Green
Bogut
Iguodala
Livingston
Barbosa
Ezili



yeah this team is stacked beyond belief :lol
So apparently, you don't even know all of the players on your own team.....You conveniently leave off Thompson and Speights.....

[JohnFreeman]

http://i.imgur.com/2HzzGfM.gif

[warriorfan]

So apparently, you don't even know all of the players on your own team.....You conveniently leave off Thompson and Speights.....

Klay was the first player I listed....get off that dope

:biggums:

[TheMilkyBarKid]

Klay was the first player I listed....get off that dope

:biggums:
Change your name to currystan

[warriorfan]

Change your name to currystan

:biggums:

[LAZERUSS]

Wow. We now have a definitive way to determine the league MVP each year. Instead of voting for an MVP, let's give it to the player with the highest +/-



BTW, +/- is among the worst, if not the worst stat, ever created.

I won't waste my time now, but I have trashed that stat with boxscore-after-boxscore.

Go ahead and pull up a relatively full scheduled night from almost any day this past season, and you will see truly laughable examples of +/-.

Just a pure joke stat.

[sd3035]

Wow. We now have a definitive way to determine the league MVP each year. Instead of voting for an MVP, let's give it to the player with the highest +/-



BTW, +/- is among the worst, if not the worst stat, ever created.

I won't waste my time now, but I have trashed that stat with boxscore-after-boxscore.

Go ahead and pull up a relatively full scheduled night from almost any day this past season, and you will see truly laughable examples of +/-.

Just a pure joke stat.

I'm guessing Wilt wasn't a regular +/- leader :lol

[LAZERUSS]

I'm guessing Wilt wasn't a regular +/- leader :lol

I couldn't tell you, nor would I care.

[warriorfan]

Wow. We now have a definitive way to determine the league MVP each year. Instead of voting for an MVP, let's give it to the player with the highest +/-



BTW, +/- is among the worst, if not the worst stat, ever created.

I won't waste my time now, but I have trashed that stat with boxscore-after-boxscore.

Go ahead and pull up a relatively full scheduled night from almost any day this past season, and you will see truly laughable examples of +/-.

Just a pure joke stat.

I forgot, PPG with a complete disregard for possessions and pace is the real stat.


:coleman:

[sd3035]

I forgot, PPG with a complete disregard for possessions and pace is the real stat.


:coleman:

PPG is just behind anecdotal tales of ridiculous strength feats

[warriorfan]

PPG is just behind anecdotal tales of ridiculous strength feats

nggas like steph can't even compete, they don't make mountain lions like they used to

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

I'm guessing Wilt wasn't a regular +/- leader :lol
+/- doesnt go that far back in the stone ages. We dont have pbp data from then and pretty much no way of getting the games

[warriorfan]

+/- doesnt go that far back in the stone ages. We dont have pbp data from then and pretty much no way of getting the games

http://www.ballnroll.com/Uploads/Blogs/Basketball/Images/Bizarre1.jpg

[sd3035]

+/- doesnt go that far back in the stone ages. We dont have pbp data from then and pretty much no way of getting the games

Only Laz was privileged enough to see Wilt's good games. We are stuck with footage of an unathletic, chicken legged gay guy who was twice as tall as the part time players he played against

[LAZERUSS]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201102030ORL.html

Damn, Wade was +15, while Lebron was +2.

Makes perfect sense.

Hell, James Jones in his 10 minutes was more "impactful" than Lebron was in his 42.

[warriorfan]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201102030ORL.html

Damn, Wade was +15, while Lebron was +2.

Makes perfect sense.

Hell, James Jones in his 10 minutes was more "impactful" than Lebron was in his 42.

sample size ngga

if the cuniform tablets that wilts games were recorded on were still intact I bet I could cherry pick one game to point out but unfortunately I can't. Well at least the general consensus is that they all sucked dicc back then and Wilt was a major choke artist.

[sd3035]

sample size ngga

if the cuniform tablets that wilts games were recorded on were still intact I bet I could cherry pick one game to point out but unfortunately I can't. Well at least the general consensus is that they all sucked dicc back then and Wilt was a major choke artist.

:roll:

[LAZERUSS]

sample size ngga

if the cuniform tablets that wilts games were recorded on were still intact I bet I could cherry pick one game to point out but unfortunately I can't. Well at least the general consensus is that they all sucked dicc back then and Wilt was a major choke artist.

How about the LAST game then?

http://espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=400796846

Guess what...Speights was more "impactful" than Lebron and Klay.

And you know what...

I could randomly pull boxscores from any relatively full schedule of NBA games, and find a TON of "samples" that would pretty much destroy this useless stat, which has proven to be a complete waste of time.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Another team stat not adjusting for...teammates

:applause:

[warriorfan]

Another team stat not adjusting for...teammates

:applause:

What needs adjusting? If GSW had such a good team wouldn't they do well when Curry was off the court? How do you explain Curry posting the 2nd GOAT +/- of all time when his team is supposedly so good?

[Ne 1]

Yet he got outplayed by Fright and bounced in 6 with HCA against a team that was less talented than his

Yeah some people act like '09 James was some kind of a demi-god who couldn't have done more. People often bring up his stat line vs Orlando, but it was about how he averaged that. He dominated the ball to an extent not seen since prime Iverson. That Magic team was like really bad outside of Howard. After actually watching watching that series, I doubted whether LeBron outplayed Howard.

The 2009 Cavs games won 66 games and had a 8.68 SRS over a 82-game sample. Had 2 cream-puff opponents in the 1st 2 rounds, and were healthy going into the ECF, against a weaker Magic team, that didn't have it's All-Star PG. Simply put, they should have won that series.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

What needs adjusting? If GSW had such a good team wouldn't they do well when Curry was off the court? How do you explain Curry posting the 2nd GOAT +/- of all time when his team is supposedly so good?

We don't know the roster/rotation playing with Curry on the bench. For all we know 90% of this stat is essentially Curry and MOST of the starting 5 on the pine.

You need more data. I mean, Draymond Green is in the top 5 with 861... :oldlol:

[LAZERUSS]

We don't know the roster/rotation playing with Curry on the bench. For all we know 90% of this stat is essentially Curry and MOST of the starting 5 on the pine.

You need more data. I mean, Draymond Green is in the top 5 with 861... :oldlol:

It is a completely WORTHLESS stat. It has been PROVEN time-and-again to contribute absolutely NOTHING to a box-score. I can't believe that some idiot took the time to create it, and worse yet, that the NBA would use it.

[Young X]

Yet he got outplayed by Fright and bounced in 6 with HCA against a team that was less talented than his:lol :lol :lolYou don't think that was one of the greatest seasons ever?

He had one of the best regular seasons in league history and had an even more dominant playoff run. From getting that Cavs team to play at that high of a level, to his ridiculous numbers/performances to clearly winning MVP over 2 guards having historic regular seasons and prime Kobe on a 65 win team. Think about it.

You have some high standards bruh.

[ISHGoat]

you guys are all ****ing idiots

warriorfan vs lazarus in here is literally two retards fighting over something they both have no idea about

[24-Inch_Chrome]

"Impactful" isn't a word.

2015 RAPM (http://stats-for-the-nba.appspot.com/ratings/RAPM_2015.html)? LeBron James.

[riseagainst]

lebron is top 3 on impact.

[Shih508]

AI's 01 playoff run was more impactful than any of Kobe's playoff run.

Don't bring up the fg% argument. We all know when a wing player who needs to taking the load of offense like AI did, everyone's hovering around 40-43% so AI did no worse than any of all time great other than MJ and that's why MJ's the goat. AI's only 5'11" and playing in a hand checking era + opponents were trying to grab him all the time when he was off the ball which made it even more impressive.

[Psileas]

Highest on/off court point differentials since 1994.

1. 96 Jordan +980
2. 15 Curry +911
3. 96 Pippen +899
4. 09 James +871

Fixed

[LAZERUSS]

you guys are all ****ing idiots

warriorfan vs lazarus in here is literally two retards fighting over something they both have no idea about

Alright oh wise one...

I don't need to know how this stat works...

I need to know the VALUE of it's data.

Here were my two previous examples, of which there are an unlimited supply...


http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201102030ORL.html


http://espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=400796846


Now, please explain to all of us here just what we are supposed to glean from that +/- info in those two examples (and keep in mind, I could go thru box-scores until the cows come home, and find hundreds, if not thousands of examples.)

[aj1987]

What needs adjusting? If GSW had such a good team wouldn't they do well when Curry was off the court? How do you explain Curry posting the 2nd GOAT +/- of all time when his team is supposedly so good?

Thompson
Barnes
Green
Bogut
Iguodala
Livingston
Barbosa
Ezili



yeah this team is stacked beyond belief :lol
2 DPOY candidates (Green & Bogut), a borderline All-D starter (Klay), an ELITE defender off the bench (Iggy), the MVP, runner up COY, All-Star and All-NBA player (Klay and Curry), and then you have VERY good role-players like Barnes and Livingston. So, yeah, this Warriors team is stacked AF.

[zoom17]

OP has been ISH punching bag lately :oldlol:

[ISHGoat]

Alright oh wise one...

I don't need to know how this stat works...

I need to know the VALUE of it's data.

Here were my two previous examples, of which there are an unlimited supply...

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...102030ORL.html

http://espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=400796846


Now, please explain to all of us here just what we are supposed to glean from that +/- info in those two examples (and keep in mind, I could go thru box-scores until the cows come home, and find hundreds, if not thousands of examples.)

i dont want to lecture or patronize you, because i think you are a respectable and knowledgeable poster

why are you citing specific examples to suit your argument instead of looking at the bigger picture?

in my opinion, you are taking taking "instantaneous snapshots" of a data set that is meant to be observed over time. its like saying "a pickup truck is more fuel efficient than a corolla" because the pickup is registering 30mpg while the corolla is 20mpg at this moment in time, and "i can find countless other moments in time where the pickup is more efficient than the corolla"

while you are not factually incorrect, anyone reasonable can see that your argument is flawed and mpg shouldn't be interpreted that way.

similarly, you should not interpret +/- as a stat that will be accurate for every game

with all that being said, i believe that the cumulative +/- for a player throughout a regular season, and obviously by extension his entire career, would be extremely accurate in describing his net impact. i firmly believe that if you were to gather the top 5 +/- players for every season, you would also have the mvp voting list, or something closely resembling it, for every season.

[24-Inch_Chrome]

"Impactful" isn't a word.

2015 RAPM (http://stats-for-the-nba.appspot.com/ratings/RAPM_2015.html)? LeBron James.

Still waiting for a reply on this. RAPM > whatever shitty volume stat you're trying to pass off as an accurate measure.

[warriorfan]

Guys? How is Steph's team so good when AMC has the highest on/off of all time only second to Jordan?

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Guys? How is Steph's team so good when AMC has the highest on/off of all time only second to Jordan?

Draymond Green has the 5th best on/off. Thoughts?

[24-Inch_Chrome]

I don't think this guy understands that no one ever cites volume +/- as being indicative of anything as far as greatness goes. If it was a stat worth looking at it would be looked at instead of being ignored for literally every other impact stat that exists.

Curry's BPM is not the best in the league, his RPM is barely the best this season and is less than LeBron in 2014, and his RAPM is 3rd in the league and not even close to historically great.

[aj1987]

Guys? How is Steph's team so good when AMC has the highest on/off of all time only second to Jordan?

What needs adjusting? If GSW had such a good team wouldn't they do well when Curry was off the court? How do you explain Curry posting the 2nd GOAT +/- of all time when his team is supposedly so good?

Thompson
Barnes
Green
Bogut
Iguodala
Livingston
Barbosa
Ezili



yeah this team is stacked beyond belief :lol
2 DPOY candidates (Green & Bogut), a borderline All-D starter (Klay), an ELITE defender off the bench (Iggy), the MVP, runner up COY, All-Star and All-NBA player (Klay and Curry), and then you have VERY good role-players like Barnes and Livingston. So, yeah, this Warriors team is stacked AF.


Klay Thompson
Harrison Barnes
Draymond Green
Andrew Bogut


Best starting 4 in the league? Maybe but it's not clear and dry. Best starting 4 in the past 30 years(the period which these statistics were accrued)? That is a stretch.
:roll:

Dude, do you even know how +/- works? Curry is +911 because he plays with the best lineup in the league. Put that lineup in '96 and it may not do as well, but they're playing in '15 and they are the best lineup in the league.

That's the same reason why '96 MJ and '96 Pippen are that high. They were playing on possibly the GOAT team. '91 MJ >>>>> '96 MJ and is possibly the GOAT season as well, but your stat says that '96 MJ, '96 Pippen, '15 Curry, and '09 LeBron are better than '91 MJ.

[Kvnzhangyay]

MJ, Lebron, Shaq, Hakeem in their peaks

[warriorfan]

Draymond Green has the 5th best on/off. Thoughts?

Riding off Curry's coattails. The same reason why Jordan's Pippen is on there. Good player but gets his +/- numbers boosted to historic levels by playing with a Curry/Jordan type of player.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Riding off Curry's coattails. The same reason why Jordan's Pippen is on there. Good player but gets his +/- numbers boosted to historic levels by playing with a Curry/Jordan type of player.
But that's on the floor. Off the floor, he is the 5th most "impactful" player of the modern era.

Can you explain this phenomenon :confusedshrug:

[warriorfan]

But that's on the floor. Off the floor, he is the 5th most "impactful" player of the modern era.

Can you explain this phenomenon :confusedshrug:

He plays the majority of his minutes with Curry :hammerhead:

[warriorfan]

Livingston - 10 ppg
Thompson - 20 ppg
Barnes - 10 ppg
Green - 10 ppg
Bogut - 5 ppg


GSW without Steph Curry will struggle to score 70 points. They go from having the first to worst offense in the league.

[AussieBaller99]

AI in the early 2000s would have to be up there.

Even though some people seem to dislike him on this board I'd have to say Durant right now. Him playing a full year would have took thunder from 9th to a top 4 seed no doubt.

[24-Inch_Chrome]

"Impactful" isn't a word.

2015 RAPM (http://stats-for-the-nba.appspot.com/ratings/RAPM_2015.html)? LeBron James.

Still waiting. :confusedshrug:

[warriorfan]

Still waiting. :confusedshrug:

http://stats-for-the-nba.appspot.com/ratings/2005.html

List of more impactful players than 2005 MVP* Steve Nash

Paul Pierce
Baron Davis
Brad Miller
Brendan Haywood
Elton Brand
Ben Wallace



Damn Steve Nash had empty ass stats. What a fugazi MVP :oldlol:

[SexSymbol]

Most impactful players and seasons I've ever seen. Please note that I don't watch 82 games of all players too, and it's only after 00s
Shaq and Kobe during three peat era
Kobe 06/08/10/13
LeBron 12/13
Durant 12/14
Dirk 11
Wade 09/11
Duncan 01/03/05
KG 04/08
Curry 15
Westbrook 15
AI 01

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

He plays the majority of his minutes with Curry :hammerhead:

So then why are you using a metric that includes other teammates' play?

:confusedshrug:

[warriorfan]

So then why are you using a metric that includes other teammates' play?

:confusedshrug:


It's the simplest metric in the world. How well your team does with you on the court, how well your team does with out you on the court...

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

It's the simplest metric in the world. How well your team does with you on the court, how well your team does with out you on the court...

You're right. It's a simple metric - one that does not adjust for other teammates on the floor.

I said Green has the 5th highest impact on this list, and you point to Curry. How is that NOT flawed?

[warriorfan]

You're right. It's a simple metric - one that does not adjust for other teammates on the floor.

I said Green has the 5th highest impact on this list, and you point to Curry. How is that NOT flawed?

I explained it, he plays with the 2nd highest impact player of all time (Steph Curry). That helps him out.


2nd fiddles and role players get carried by the best player for +/-, not the other way around

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

I explained it, he plays with the 2nd highest impact player of all time (Steph Curry). That helps him out.


2nd fiddles and role players get carried by the best player for +/-, not the other way around

And Steph plays with the 5th highest impact player of all time (better than Kareem, Magic, Bird, Kobe, Shaq). So yeah, that's not explaining anything.

This is getting bad for you... :hammerhead:

[warriorfan]

And Steph plays with the 5th highest impact player of all time (better than Kareem, Magic, Bird, Kobe, Shaq). So yeah, that's not explaining anything.

This is getting bad for you... :hammerhead:

ngga you are retarded, I explained it two times already, not gonna do it a 3rd time

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

ngga you are retarded, I explained it two times already, not gonna do it a 3rd time

You have YET to explain why you're using a team stat to rank individuals.

We'll wait.. :cheers:

[24-Inch_Chrome]

Damn Steve Nash had empty ass stats. What a fugazi MVP :oldlol:

6.8 offensive RAPM while running the league's best offense. :applause:

I've never claimed that he was a good two way player, just that his offensive impact was unparalleled. Which it was, best in the league. Thanks for reinforcing that.

[warriorfan]

6.8 offensive RAPM while running the league's best offense. :applause:

I've never claimed that he was a good two way player, just that his offensive impact was unparalleled. Which it was, best in the league. Thanks for reinforcing that.

http://stats-for-the-nba.appspot.com/ratings/2005.html
2005 RAPM
O D T
Tim Duncan 4.4 6.4 10.9
Shaquille O'Neal 5.6 4.3 9.9
Andrei Kirilenko 4.0 4.9 8.9
Kevin Garnett 4.0 4.2 8.2
Ben Wallace -0.1 7.8 7.7
Dirk Nowitzki 4.1 3.3 7.4
Manu Ginobili 5.2 2.0 7.1
Jason Kidd 4.6 1.9 6.5
Elton Brand 3.3 2.6 5.9
Brendan Haywood -0.0 5.6 5.6
Brad Miller 1.8 3.6 5.4
Tracy McGrady 5.0 0.4 5.4
Baron Davis 6.3 -0.9 5.4
Paul Pierce 2.9 1.9 4.9
Steve Nash 6.8 -2.0 4.8
Shawn Marion 2.3 2.3 4.7


How is Steve Nash the real MVP of 2005? He isn't even in the top 10 most impactful players in the league. Tim Duncan is literally twice as impactful as Nash in 2005. Look who is dead even with Steve Nash in impact, Shawn Marion. Nash was hardly even the most impactful player on his own team, nevertheless the entire league.

Nash 2005 MVP*

Most fraudulent MVP of All Time

[JZ600]

2-15

[24-Inch_Chrome]

Nash 2005 MVP*

Most fraudulent MVP of All Time

MVP =/= best player. Steve Nash turned a 29 win team into a 62 win team while leading many of the players on that team to career years as far as impact and stats. Nash was there for his offensive prowess in terms of himself and his teammates, that's the system they ran and that's where he excelled; he quite clearly delivered on that end. I'm not really concerned if you don't want't to believe that, everyone is entitled to their own opinions.

If Nash's MVP is fraudulent because he didn't have the highest individual impact then the exact same thing applies to Curry's. LeBron James, the real 2015 MVP?

[warriorfan]

MVP =/= best player. Steve Nash turned a 29 win team into a 62 win team while leading many of the players on that team to career years as far as impact and stats. Nash was there for his offensive prowess in terms of himself and his teammates, that's the system they ran and that's where he excelled; he quite clearly delivered on that end. I'm not really concerned if you don't want't to believe that, everyone is entitled to their own opinions.

If Nash's MVP is fraudulent because he didn't have the highest individual impact then the exact same thing applies to Curry's. LeBron James, the real 2015 MVP?

using the same data you gave to me

http://stats-for-the-nba.appspot.com/ratings/RAPM_2015.html

Curry is way more impactful/valuable than Nash was in 2005. While Nash was in 13th place with 50% of the points as first place. Curry is in 3rd place with 90% of the points as first place. The reason why LeBron isn't the 2015 mvp is because he played less games. You don't get to take vacations to south beach while your team needs you and get MVPs. Leonard was very impactful but he is not the Alpha leader of his team like Curry is.

[SHAQisGOAT]

In terms of overall impact, considering peak more, I'd say:

Shaq
Bird
Jordan
Wilt
Kareem

Probably in that order, or something close.
Then you got dudes like Hakeem, Magic, LeBron and Duncan.

edit: Russell is the most impactful on defense. How about a dude like Bill Walton? Extremely impactful at his best.

[Prime_Shaq]

In terms of overall impact, considering peak more, I'd say:

Shaq
Bird
Jordan
Wilt
Kareem

Probably in that order, or something close.
Then you got dudes like Hakeem, Magic, LeBron and Duncan.

edit: Russell is the most impactful on defense. How about a dude like Bill Walton? Extremely impactful at his best.

:applause:

[24-Inch_Chrome]

29 wins to 62 wins > 51 to 67. That 33 win impact. :applause:

[kunk75]

charles smith had the biggest impact on the knicks title hopes

[T_L_P]

Poor timing, OP. :lol

[Prime_Shaq]

Poor timing, OP. :lol
Don't think OP gives a shit, anything to distract people from Curry in these Finals :lol