View Full Version : Honestly, the Warriors problem has been offense, not defense
ChrisKreager
06-10-2015, 04:08 AM
Not defense.
If someone told you that they would allow 100, 95, and 96 points through three games in the Finals, you'd think that would be impressive.
This game didn't exactly give me flashbacks to that Houston Memorial Day offensive explosion, yet somehow the defense feels like it's worse than it is.
J Shuttlesworth
06-10-2015, 04:10 AM
The Cavs are shutting down Curry and living with the other guys making shots. Also, most of Curry's made field goals haven't been easy looks at all.
Hamtaro CP3KDKG
06-10-2015, 04:11 AM
Yup the defense is doing their job. the "MVP" isnt
RoundMoundOfReb
06-10-2015, 04:15 AM
Given the pace 100, 95, 96 is not terrible for the Cavs. And as much people keep saying the Splash bros are gonna hit their shots eventually, can't the same be said about LeBron? He's shooting 40%...He has a hot jumper one game and he could drop 50.
Honestly, this series is interesting. I keep expecting the Warriors to take 'em out to the woodshed and it keeps not happening. I still think GS wins this...but game 4 is almost must-win.
dbugz
06-10-2015, 04:26 AM
That's what happening when your team rely so much on outside shooting and your big men can't even score inside or can't even post up and challenge a scrub like Thompson.
Bogut = No intention on posting up, always looking to pass
Green = Would rather settle for a jump shop which he's struggling now. Dude got exposed how bad his offensive skills are. Does he even had one?
No inside threat? Opponent defense would feast on your shooters just like what's happening on this series.
If Bogut or Green will not be involve on the offensive end, Cavs winning this series in game 5.
outbreak
06-10-2015, 04:38 AM
Cavs are shutting down the perimeter and warriors have nothing else. Its embarrassing
KiiiiNG
06-10-2015, 04:42 AM
Cavs are shutting down the perimeter and warriors have nothing else. Its embarrassing
but bandwagon warriors fans were bragging about how they weren't just a jump shooting team and that they have the top offense and defense in the league
what happened? :lol
those arrogant clowns (bdreason, airfederer, brandonislegend) NO WHERE to be found.
what a sad group of "fans"... :facepalm
buddha
06-10-2015, 04:53 AM
no shit. they've shot 40 or under percentage wise all three games.
KembaWalker
06-10-2015, 07:16 AM
lmfao thought this was obvious
TheMan
06-10-2015, 07:56 AM
I've said it before, the GSW are NOT an all time great team, even if they still come back and win the Finals, they are shooting like crap, even on the ton of open looks they've gotten. You kids are a funny bunch, I've seen my share of great teams and these Warriors aren't one, they're a very good team, just not an all time great :facepalm
Taller than CP3
06-10-2015, 08:08 AM
Their defense is going to have to do a better job since their MVP apparently decided to become a role player.
El Gato Negro
06-10-2015, 08:27 AM
Kerr better come up with a better game plan than put in all your shooters and chuck threes next game. Blatt is making him look foolish with a depleted roster.
salwan
06-10-2015, 09:01 AM
Tbf, draymond was great on offense up to this point (finals).
Setting screens, dribble hand-offs, passing, pick-n-poping from 3, pick-n-rolling, grabbing a rebound and going coast to coast...
However,he's not a go-to-scorer. He's more of a do - it - all, doingthe small things well and making a good team great - guy. They are not switching curry pick-n-rolls and letting dray beat them in 4-on- 3 situations.
Mr. Jabbar
06-10-2015, 09:08 AM
The myth of cavs defense must stop. They are missing WIDE open shots, green and h barnes complement currys clanking display perfectly
SilkkTheShocker
06-10-2015, 09:11 AM
The myth of cavs defense must stop. They are missing WIDE open shots, green and h barnes complement currys clanking display perfectly
It's not a myth, the Cavs are extremely physical. Warriors used to playing a bunch of finesse teams in the West. They really don't have an excuse if they lose a series to LeBron and Knicks cast-offs
Jasper
06-10-2015, 10:33 AM
All good posts ... nice OP thread starter.
Kerr - has an Antoni' mentality because of his back court.
If one isn't hot the other is , because they are pure shooters.
that said - just like Brocks teams in Oak City- they become one dimensional.
A defense in the pro league can hone their ability to stop a team from doing this.
This is why Cav's even going through Bron, will pass the ball to less percentage shooter, to change the flow of the game.
So many times I said last nite - Bron take the shot , yet he settled to pass to a player less able to be productive. (This is an offensive mind acting / liking in a defense positive mode)
I hate to bring up Kobe , but this is where he failed to see this option to alter a oppositions defenses schemes.
As OP post stated the War's are having an offensive issue. Look at what they ran at the end of the game , a three pick , over the arc to free Curry to throw up a 3 point attempt 3 feet past the arc.
If the War's are going to live with a 3 point attempts to win a series and a championship / I will take the old school high percentage bball the CAv's play (.)
Goldrush25
06-10-2015, 11:21 AM
Honestly, the Warriors problem has been offense, not defense
The two are interdependent in the Warriors case.
Their defensive strategy begets this slow pace. They're used to being in transition where they can jack up those early 3s. When that strategy is activated and they're in rhythm, they can go on some torrid hot streaks.
It's not going to automatically start happening unless they make fundamental changes in the way they defend Lebron. But still, they SHOULD be able to win with their current strategy simply because they have so many able bodies. Warriors are choking. They're just not playing as well as they should be.
Part of that is Cleveland's D, but part of it is them getting mindfricked by the moment. Anyone see Curry with his head down, sulking last night? How can you lead your team like that?:oldlol:
Do you know who solves this problem?
David Lee.
The man is world's better than Green offensively, and is a much better natural rebounder. Green hustles to get his rebounds, for Lee rebounding comes more naturally. He's gonna have a better time keeping TT off the glass and should more than make up for his defense. I mean, how much defense do you need to play against TT?
chosen_one6
06-10-2015, 11:42 AM
Do you know who solves this problem?
David Lee.
The man is world's better than Green offensively, and is a much better natural rebounder. Green hustles to get his rebounds, for Lee rebounding comes more naturally. He's gonna have a better time keeping TT off the glass and should more than make up for his defense. I mean, how much defense do you need to play against TT?
:oldlol:
Nah. David Lee was replaced for a reason. He's a sieve on defense and isn't the offensive player he used to be. He's too slow and cumbersome, and cannot stretch the defense from 3 like Draymond can.
:oldlol:
Nah. David Lee was replaced for a reason. He's a sieve on defense and isn't the offensive player he used to be. He's too slow and cumbersome, and cannot stretch the defense from 3 like Draymond can.
He was replaced because he got injured and when he got back, Kerr didn't want to risk messing with the chemistry of the team who was on a roll.
He's still every bit the offensive player he used to be, but it's hard when he's used to starter minutes and is put into the role of a bench player. It's not like Iggy's case where Iggy still gets starter minutes.
The reason Lee would work against the Cavs is because TT isn't much of an offensive player so Lee's defense can be hidden. Lee is also a much better natural rebounder than Green, he's bigger and has better rebounding instincts. Green hustles for his rebounds, and TT has him beat in size and athleticism and at least matches his intensity. Green's no good this series against any of the starters. He should be used as a reserve.
chosen_one6
06-10-2015, 11:51 AM
He was replaced because he got injured and when he got back, Kerr didn't want to risk messing with the chemistry of the team who was on a roll.
He's still every bit the offensive player he used to be, but it's hard when he's used to starter minutes and is put into the role of a bench player. It's not like Iggy's case where Iggy still gets starter minutes.
The reason Lee would work against the Cavs is because TT isn't much of an offensive player so Lee's defense can be hidden. Lee is also a much better natural rebounder than Green, he's bigger and has better rebounding instincts. Green hustles for his rebounds, and TT has him beat in size and athleticism and at least matches his intensity. Green's no good this series against any of the starters. He should be used as a reserve.
You can only hide Lee's terrible defense for so long. Eventually the Cavs will start using pick and rolls to get Lee to switch on a quicker player, and then he'll either foul or give up an easy basket.
Lee would have lost his starting job to Green anyway because of the Warriors playstyle. His ability to rebound is not so great that his offensive and defensive shortcomings would change the tide of the series. He's not that good.
You can only hide Lee's terrible defense for so long. Eventually the Cavs will start using pick and rolls to get Lee to switch on a quicker player, and then he'll either foul or give up an easy basket.
Lee would have lost his starting job to Green anyway because of the Warriors playstyle. His ability to rebound is not so great that his offensive and defensive shortcomings would change the tide of the series. He's not that good.
Dude was an all-star two seasons ago and didn't have a serious injury. He's still got it and he's exactly what the Warriors need right now.
He's their vet, another calming presence for the team since Klay and Green who have been wetting the bed. Curry's had his issues too but he's been able to at least hit big shots to close the gap last night.
tpols
06-10-2015, 11:56 AM
Do you know who solves this problem?
David Lee.
The man is world's better than Green offensively, and is a much better natural rebounder. Green hustles to get his rebounds, for Lee rebounding comes more naturally. He's gonna have a better time keeping TT off the glass and should more than make up for his defense. I mean, how much defense do you need to play against TT?
Yes! Green is either a 3 or a hard drive.. problem tho is Every time green attacks the basket he tries for some tomahawk jam.. but mozgov is bigger and just as athletic so he's been getting stuffed. Lee brings a midrange game and, most importantly, an array of fakes.. Mozgov can be dumb and bite on a fake, but green is also dumb and will try to challenge someone way bigger than him instead of using his lack of discipline against him. Lee needs to get some burn
konex
06-10-2015, 11:58 AM
Offense has been a huge problem (bad shots galore, turnovers and no interior scoring) but they are also getting dominated on the glass. Cavs won game 2 shooting 35% cos they grabbed so many offensive boards
chosen_one6
06-10-2015, 12:03 PM
Dude was an all-star two seasons ago and didn't have a serious injury. He's still got it and he's exactly what the Warriors need right now.
He's their vet, another calming presence for the team since Klay and Green who have been wetting the bed. Curry's had his issues too but he's been able to at least hit big shots to close the gap last night.
Yeah he's a vet but does he have any experience in high pressure playoff situations? Nope, so his veteran experience is null.
Just because he was an all star two seasons ago does not mean he's still an all star. Because if he was he would have made an impact during this season and helped the team, but he didn't because he's not a good fit for the team and he is terrible at defense.
On offense he has a jumpshot and he can rebound, however he is not a back to the basket type player and he cannot shoot the three. He's not quick enough to get past TT, LeBron, or even Mozgov. Would you rather have Lee settle for midrange shots, or have Curry, Thompson, Iggy, and Barnes taking 3's? You can't have Lee at center because he's not good on defense. If you have Bogut out there with Lee, that leaves only 3 shooters to stretch the floor, and given that Bogut has no jumpshot whatsoever and is slow and cumbersome as well, the Cavs can smother the other 3 jumpshooters and force them to pass it down low or take contested shots and hope that Bogut and Lee could get an OREB.
Then if you swing things down to the other end, Lee can rebound but he literally would be so bad on defense that it would negate his ability to rebound. I can almost guarantee that he would either give up an easy basket, foul, or get blown by which would cause a rotation, which would leave a shooter open for a 3.
I know you think he can help the Warriors on paper, but given their team structure and his playstyle, he would hurt them more than he would help them. The Warriors are just too small of a team without Bogut for their "biig" men to have any impact. The Warriors will win the series by the jumpshot and trying to stop LeBron, both of which haven't worked out too well so far.
ShackEelOKneel
06-10-2015, 12:23 PM
The Cavs are shutting down Curry and living with the other guys making shots. Also, most of Curry's made field goals haven't been easy looks at all.
The problem is, the others guys are not making shots.
ShackEelOKneel
06-10-2015, 12:24 PM
The myth of cavs defense must stop. They are missing WIDE open shots, green and h barnes complement currys clanking display perfectly
Delly's D on Curry is the only thing really noteworthy. The rest of the team is missing open shots as you have pointed out.
I've been saying it all along, Warriors can't even set up their offense correctly.
Only time they did was for 5 minutes of Game 1's overtime. They did by playing defense.
R.I.P.
06-10-2015, 12:29 PM
He was replaced because he got injured and when he got back, Kerr didn't want to risk messing with the chemistry of the team who was on a roll.
He's still every bit the offensive player he used to be, but it's hard when he's used to starter minutes and is put into the role of a bench player. It's not like Iggy's case where Iggy still gets starter minutes.
The reason Lee would work against the Cavs is because TT isn't much of an offensive player so Lee's defense can be hidden. Lee is also a much better natural rebounder than Green, he's bigger and has better rebounding instincts. Green hustles for his rebounds, and TT has him beat in size and athleticism and at least matches his intensity. Green's no good this series against any of the starters. He should be used as a reserve.
I agree. Lee needs to play more.
KungFuJoe
06-10-2015, 12:33 PM
It's not a myth, the Cavs are extremely physical. Warriors used to playing a bunch of finesse teams in the West. They really don't have an excuse if they lose a series to LeBron and Knicks cast-offs
You're an idiot...how finesse and non physical were the Grizzlies? Stick to what you're good at...pulling disappearing acts and sucking off Bron.
livinglegend
06-10-2015, 12:34 PM
Warriors need transition points to get their offense going and to find their offensive flow.
Lebron's isolation slows down the pace a lot. It forces gsw to play halfcourt offense the whole game.
Lebron takes the whole shot clock and then shoots a small hook shot preventing warriors getting a long rebound and going quickly.
The way cavs are playing offensively helps a lot to slow down warriors' offense.
KungFuJoe
06-10-2015, 12:35 PM
:oldlol:
Nah. David Lee was replaced for a reason. He's a sieve on defense and isn't the offensive player he used to be. He's too slow and cumbersome, and cannot stretch the defense from 3 like Draymond can.
Problem is that Green isn't stretching anything. He's getting wide open looks and missing. He missed something like 13 threes in a row going into last night's game when he finally hit one late.
GS's offense looked a lot better with Lee in, even though it was for a short stretch. I hope he gets more rotation time, even if he is a liability on defense. GS needs an offensive spark...this is ridiculous.
Yeah he's a vet but does he have any experience in high pressure playoff situations? Nope, so his veteran experience is null.
Just because he was an all star two seasons ago does not mean he's still an all star. Because if he was he would have made an impact during this season and helped the team, but he didn't because he's not a good fit for the team and he is terrible at defense.
On offense he has a jumpshot and he can rebound, however he is not a back to the basket type player and he cannot shoot the three. He's not quick enough to get past TT, LeBron, or even Mozgov. Would you rather have Lee settle for midrange shots, or have Curry, Thompson, Iggy, and Barnes taking 3's? You can't have Lee at center because he's not good on defense. If you have Bogut out there with Lee, that leaves only 3 shooters to stretch the floor, and given that Bogut has no jumpshot whatsoever and is slow and cumbersome as well, the Cavs can smother the other 3 jumpshooters and force them to pass it down low or take contested shots and hope that Bogut and Lee could get an OREB.
Then if you swing things down to the other end, Lee can rebound but he literally would be so bad on defense that it would negate his ability to rebound. I can almost guarantee that he would either give up an easy basket, foul, or get blown by which would cause a rotation, which would leave a shooter open for a 3.
I know you think he can help the Warriors on paper, but given their team structure and his playstyle, he would hurt them more than he would help them. The Warriors are just too small of a team without Bogut for their "biig" men to have any impact. The Warriors will win the series by the jumpshot and trying to stop LeBron, both of which haven't worked out too well so far.
I don't know if you've been watching this series or not, but Green has been absolutely horrible on offense in every sense. His shot isn't falling, even when he's wide open. Because of this he has no confidence in himself offensively and has been passing up wide open 3's to drive it in and get blocked. I want to say he's been finishing something like 1/4 of his drives/layups because he's been forcing it in instead of taking perfectly good shots the Cavs have been giving him.
In terms of defense, Draymond's biggest strength this series has been his ability to play at C which he can still do with Lee on the floor. In terms of the Warriors' bigmen, Green included, Lee is by far the biggest offensive weapon. Bogut doesn't even look to score anymore, Ezeli has been solid but clumsy at times, and Green has no confidence in himself.
Lee has to play big minutes for the Warriors to have any chance. The Warriors looked better with him on the floor last night because he moves the ball more effectively than Green has all series, is a much better finisher at the rim, and he's actually able to compete with TT on the boards.
It looks to me that the Warriors aren't looking to double Lebron to try to change the pace of the game. If this is the case, then let Iggy guard Lebron on iso plays like he has all series long. It's been effective enough, but allowed Lebron to pick apart the defense with his passing because he doesn't feel much pressure with single coverage. The one good thing about this with Lee on the floor is that he won't be switched onto Lebron, because I agree, he can't guard Lebron.
Either one of two things needs to happen. Lee needs to play starter minutes, or Lebron needs to be doubled to force the ball out of his hands and allow his teammates to make mistakes which they are fully capable of.
chosen_one6
06-10-2015, 12:49 PM
I don't know if you've been watching this series or not, but Green has been absolutely horrible on offense in every sense. His shot isn't falling, even when he's wide open. Because of this he has no confidence in himself offensively and has been passing up wide open 3's to drive it in and get blocked. I want to say he's been finishing something like 1/4 of his drives/layups because he's been forcing it in instead of taking perfectly good shots the Cavs have been giving him.
In terms of defense, Draymond's biggest strength this series has been his ability to play at C which he can still do with Lee on the floor. In terms of the Warriors' bigmen, Green included, Lee is by far the biggest offensive weapon. Bogut doesn't even look to score anymore, Ezeli has been solid but clumsy at times, and Green has no confidence in himself.
Lee has to play big minutes for the Warriors to have any chance. The Warriors looked better with him on the floor last night because he moves the ball more effectively than Green has all series, is a much better finisher at the rim, and he's actually able to compete with TT on the boards.
It looks to me that the Warriors aren't looking to double Lebron to try to change the pace of the game. If this is the case, then let Iggy guard Lebron on iso plays like he has all series long. It's been effective enough, but allowed Lebron to pick apart the defense with his passing because he doesn't feel much pressure with single coverage. The one good thing about this with Lee on the floor is that he won't be switched onto Lebron, because I agree, he can't guard Lebron.
Either one of two things needs to happen. Lee needs to play starter minutes, or Lebron needs to be doubled to force the ball out of his hands and allow his teammates to make mistakes which they are fully capable of.
We'll see if Lee has the impact you say he could have. I honestly do not believe he will make as much of an impact as you say he can. He is not a player that can turn the tide of a series in my eyes. If Lee and Green both play at the same time the Warriors will be very undersized and I don't think Lee's rebounding will be as great of a factor.
Levity
06-10-2015, 12:50 PM
It's like the team refuses to attack the basket (and on the few occasions they did, they scored). they need easy buckets. Seeing the ball going into the hoop is a good start. We'll probably see Lee get a lot more minutes and play inside out at times. The dubs are making this too hard on themselves.
We'll see if Lee has the impact you say he could have. I honestly do not believe he will make as much of an impact as you say he can. He is not a player that can turn the tide of a series in my eyes. If Lee and Green both play at the same time the Warriors will be very undersized and I don't think Lee's rebounding will be as great of a factor.
Yeah, we will see and I really hope I'm right. TT is good, but he's not this good. The only reason he's been so effective this series is because Green is shitting himself.
Derka
06-10-2015, 01:09 PM
They have to attack the rim more with how effective the Cavs have been in guarding Curry tight and taking away the perimeter. You have to get the Cavs' d to start collapsing, especially during the stretches when Mozgov goes out.
Goldrush25
06-10-2015, 02:59 PM
It's like the team refuses to attack the basket (and on the few occasions they did, they scored). they need easy buckets. Seeing the ball going into the hoop is a good start. We'll probably see Lee get a lot more minutes and play inside out at times. The dubs are making this too hard on themselves.
Pretty much agree.
It's just really difficult for a young team to play in a different fashion when they're being tested for the first time.
TheMan
06-10-2015, 06:28 PM
This is why I never felt the Warriors were this great and unbeatable team. Let's be honest, if the Clippers don't do them the favor of knocking SA out, the Spurs would've beaten GS and most likely be up 3-0 or at least 2-1 right now on this depleated Cavs team.
GS is not ready for prime time, which is understandable considering their overall youth.
Jasper
06-10-2015, 07:42 PM
You can only hide Lee's terrible defense for so long. Eventually the Cavs will start using pick and rolls to get Lee to switch on a quicker player, and then he'll either foul or give up an easy basket.
Lee would have lost his starting job to Green anyway because of the Warriors playstyle. His ability to rebound is not so great that his offensive and defensive shortcomings would change the tide of the series. He's not that good.
:applause:
Lee was a defensive liablity , but coachs worked around it.
his board work is still top notch , but I think you are right Cav's will adjust'
DukeDelonte13
06-10-2015, 07:45 PM
They have to attack the rim more with how effective the Cavs have been in guarding Curry tight and taking away the perimeter. You have to get the Cavs' d to start collapsing, especially during the stretches when Mozgov goes out.
cavs won't collapse. The'll stay glued to the perimeter even if it means giving up easier looks around the basket. The key for the cavs is to absolutely deny GSW from getting hot behind the arc.
KingBeasley08
06-10-2015, 07:48 PM
Problem with Lee is he picked up 5 fouls in 13 min. He's gonna get abused on defense
smoovegittar
06-10-2015, 08:44 PM
What was that about Jax posting tweets on not winning with 3 ball? Oh, sorry - wrong thread. :rolleyes:
I<3NBA
06-11-2015, 01:47 AM
You're an idiot...how finesse and non physical were the Grizzlies? Stick to what you're good at...pulling disappearing acts and sucking off Bron.
you're the idiot. Memphis took 2 games off GSW. only reason Dubs won the series was because Grizz starters were injured.
but those 2 games the Grizz took off GSW, Dubs were made too look so foolish. unlike Cavs' win that have been all very close, Grizz wins were blowouts.
Funktion
06-11-2015, 02:21 AM
The Warriors defense is a big part of the problem also. The Cavs are shitting on them on the offensive glass, and they allow LeBron to eat 15 to 20 seconds into every shot clock while casually strolling across the court. They are getting nothing in transition by doing this. I think they had 4 fast break points this past game? There's no sense of urgency or pressure on D, which leads to a lethargic offense.
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