Question about LeBron's supporting cast

[Monolith]

Or supporting casts in general really. LeBron's current cast is obviously not loaded with talent with both Kyrie and Love out, and the only other person a not-very-serious NBA fan might know on this current team is probably JR and that's only because he's a well documented idiot. However, despite not having recognizable names most of these "scrubs" are stepping up and producing in various ways when called upon. When the exact opposite happened last year for LeBron, he had the big name teammates in Wade and Bosh but they were both M.I.A. when they were needed most. Basically my question is, is it fair to call LeBron's cast terrible (even if they are on paper) for this series when they aren't playing like it at all? I'm not sure. Just like it's probably not fair to say LeBron had all kinds of help last year against the Spurs just because he had Wade and Bosh who both played like trash.

Also, I'm not trying to diminish LeBron in any way, if the Cavs win this series it will be one hell of an accomplishment and that's coming from a long time LeBron hater.

Just trying to see what people's opinions are on this sort of thing.:cheers:

[Sarcastic]

They're not as bad as people are making them out to be. Tristan Thompson was a #4 pick of the draft. Mozgov was always known to have potential. JR Smith was a 6MOY. Shumpert was known to have potential if he ever started caring about basketball and stop worrying about his hair/rap/off court activities.

[Timmy D for MVP]

To answer your question no.

But these boards don't dabble in context often.

[KungFuJoe]

Losing Kyrie and Love wasn't a complete negative. It made them better defensively and slowed the game down because Kyrie loves to push the ball and now Lebron has it in his hands most of the time.

Tristan has been huge the entire series and Delly was the spark they needed in game 3. Both those guys would have had their PT impacted with Love and Kyrie were still around.

Still, though...GS is straight up choking.

[aj1987]

It's still a decent team, but not good enough to beat the Warriors. As I said before, the Cavs are playing amazing defense, but LeBron is basically controlling the game. If he wins, averaging something similar, this might end up as a top 2 GOAT Finals performance.

Wade and Bosh straight up played like ass in the Finals last season. Miami's defense and garbage ass PG's didn't help either.

[Monolith]

It's still a decent team, but not good enough to beat the Warriors. As I said before, the Cavs are playing amazing defense, but LeBron is basically controlling the game. If he wins, averaging something similar, this might end up as a top 2 GOAT Finals performance.

Wade and Bosh straight up played like ass in the Finals last season. Miami's defense and garbage ass PG's didn't help either.That's the thing though, they are beating them. Yeah the Warriors are playing terribly but still. Is this really the massive upset everyone is claiming it to be when LeBron's "scrub" teammates are giving him more help that Wade and Bosh did combined last year and the Warriors are playing like they don't even belong in the finals? On paper yes but not in reality. In the first 3 games the Cavs have been the better team than the "historically stacked" Warriors, period.

[aj1987]

That's the thing though, they are beating them. Yeah the Warriors are playing terribly but still. Is this really the massive upset everyone is claiming it to be when LeBron's "scrub" teammates are giving him more help that Wade and Bosh did combined last year and the Warriors are playing like they don't even belong in the finals? On paper yes but not in reality. In the first 3 games the Cavs have been the better team than the "historically stacked" Warriors, period.
The only reason they're beating them is because of LeBron and the defense. LeBron controlling the game's pace is a HUGE factor in disrupting the Warriors' goliath offense. The guy is playing at a level only a few ever did in the history of the game. 41/12/8/2/1 while playing elite defense.

Again, Wade's "maintenance program" ****ed him over during the PO's. He just didn't have the stamina in the Finals. You could tell he was getting gassed before the first half ended. Bosh, Cole, Rio, etc. played complete bitches.

[ArbitraryWater]

That's the thing though, they are beating them. Yeah the Warriors are playing terribly but still. Is this really the massive upset everyone is claiming it to be when LeBron's "scrub" teammates are giving him more help that Wade and Bosh did combined last year and the Warriors are playing like they don't even belong in the finals? On paper yes but not in reality. In the first 3 games the Cavs have been the better team than the "historically stacked" Warriors, period.

So LeBron has played with mediocre or worse help for 2 years straight now.. glad we could figure this out.. /thread?

[Monolith]

So LeBron has played with mediocre or worse help for 2 years straight now.. glad we could figure this out.. /thread?
I mean his help isn't looking very bad right now is it? But yeah his help was nowhere to be found last year, but I think that was just karma catching up to him for his collusion.

[Prime_Shaq]

The Cavs role players are just playing with more energy and outhustling the Warriors who looks as though they already won the championship :facepalm:

[dunksby]

He has a similar supporting cast to his previous Cavs who made deep pushes in the postseason, they play great defense, it's LeBron who is not similar to what he was last time he took the Cavs to the Finals. This LeBron is relentless and doesn't care if he misses as long as he doesn't let the Warriors defense rest.

[Jacks3]

It's like the exact opposite of the 2013 playoffs. Wade and Bosh struggled in the playoffs but people still thought of them as some great supporting cast simply because they have big names.

[chazzy]

I'm just fascinated with the way Dellavadova has neutered Curry. Not just slowing him down.. but stopping him. It's one thing if the Cavs are withstanding the GS offense and making all their shots or something, but no one expected it to play out like this.

[plowking]

I'm a Heat fan, and as someone who watched more than half the games from 2013 and 2014, the Heat simply weren't as good as they were made out to be.

This Cavs team is better. As much as LeBron is doing now, he was doing as much in Miami trying to keep that team afloat. Bosh couldn't be counted on half the time, and Wade was a sorry sight in 2014.

This Cavs team is good enough to win the title, and they're playing better than the Heat team did last year despite not being anywhere near as talented.

[LeBird]

I'm a Heat fan, and as someone who watched more than half the games from 2013 and 2014, the Heat simply weren't as good as they were made out to be.

This Cavs team is better. As much as LeBron is doing now, he was doing as much in Miami trying to keep that team afloat. Bosh couldn't be counted on half the time, and Wade was a sorry sight in 2014.

This Cavs team is good enough to win the title, and they're playing better than the Heat team did last year despite not being anywhere near as talented.

While the Cavs don't have the talent of those Heat teams; they have the effort and mentality.

Still, if you could simulate a game between those Heat teams and this Cavs team (shared players being clones or something) I think the Heat teams win anyway. If Spurs weren't so crazy good last finals they might have won it as well.

[warriorfan]

Or supporting casts in general really. LeBron's current cast is obviously not loaded with talent with both Kyrie and Love out, and the only other person a not-very-serious NBA fan might know on this current team is probably JR and that's only because he's a well documented idiot. However, despite not having recognizable names most of these "scrubs" are stepping up and producing in various ways when called upon. When the exact opposite happened last year for LeBron, he had the big name teammates in Wade and Bosh but they were both M.I.A. when they were needed most. Basically my question is, is it fair to call LeBron's cast terrible (even if they are on paper) for this series when they aren't playing like it at all? I'm not sure. Just like it's probably not fair to say LeBron had all kinds of help last year against the Spurs just because he had Wade and Bosh who both played like trash.

Also, I'm not trying to diminish LeBron in any way, if the Cavs win this series it will be one hell of an accomplishment and that's coming from a long time LeBron hater.

Just trying to see what people's opinions are on this sort of thing.:cheers:

CLE role players are overachieving at the moment but they will come back down to earth.

[aj1987]

CLE role players are overachieving at the moment but they will come back down to earth.
How does defense and intensity "come back down to earth"? If anything, LeBron, JR, and Iman are due for an incredible shooting game.

[LeBird]

How does defense and intensity "come back down to earth"? If anything, LeBron, JR, and Iman are due for an incredible shooting game.


Fatigue and injuries. The longer this series goes the less likely they'll win.

[BlackWhiteGreen]

It's an interesting question, as the players are clearly playing better than their average. But it's still a poor supporting cast, as you look at it - would Atlanta trade Teague for Delly, or Horford for Mozgov, or Korver for Shumpert straight up? Would Washington trade Beal or Gortat for any of those?

Kobe's Lakers, the big 3 Celtics, neither of those teams are trading a starter for anyone not named LeBron. And that's why I think GS are winning these finals

[aj1987]

Fatigue and injuries. The longer this series goes the less likely they'll win.
Same could be said for the Warriors. The Cavs basically need 2-3 more games of that extra gear intensity and energy.

[LeBird]

Same could be said for the Warriors. The Cavs basically need 2-3 more games of that extra gear intensity and energy.

Generally it could be said but more specifically it is clear which team is out there working their *******s off and is at greater risk.

[Dro]

Fatigue and injuries. The longer this series goes the less likely they'll win.
The Warriors are mainly a jump shooting team so fatigue could affect them also.........

[DCL]

you people serious??

remove lebron from the current lineup of cleveland, and they'd be lucky if they win 25 games in the regular season.

the squad on its own is lottery-destination material.

[SilkkTheShocker]

They're not as bad as people are making them out to be. Tristan Thompson was a #4 pick of the draft. Mozgov was always known to have potential. JR Smith was a 6MOY. Shumpert was known to have potential if he ever started caring about basketball and stop worrying about his hair/rap/off court activities.

Stopped reading right there. This is the worst supporting cast for a Finals team since 07 Cavs

[Taller than CP3]

Cavs have no legit second scoring option. Lebron has been on his own this entire time.

[sd3035]

They are carrying a guy shooting 40% right now, so I'd say they are pretty good

[FillJackson]

Fatigue and injuries. The longer this series goes the less likely they'll win.
Wasn't Dellavedova admitted to the hospital for cramping after the last game?


Also as to the original question, David Blatt deserves a lot of credit. He seems to be maximizing the potential of this group. Also they seem to gel well as a unit.

[Peter Pang]

JR is shooting 34% so far, almost costing Cavs game 2 with his stupid late game play.

Shumpert is shooting 26% so far, almost costing Cavs game 3 with his stupid late game play.

TT is playing great on the board, but playing like shit on offensive end with 33% FG. 33% ! From a guy who basically just need to do put back and catch & dunk.


Delly & Mozgov play great on both ends, when I say great I mean above their own level.

Oh and James Jones comes in 10 mins every game to represent himself, Mike Miller, Marion, Perk and an walking 10 million cap space.


And that is all Lebron has so far in this Finals.

[sd3035]

JR is shooting 34% so far, almost costing Cavs game 2 with his stupid late game play.

Shumpert is shooting 26% so far, almost costing Cavs game 3 with his stupid late game play.

TT is playing great on the board, but playing like shit on offensive end with 33% FG. 33% ! From a guy who basically just need to do put back and catch & dunk.


Delly & Mozgov play great on both ends, when I say great I mean above their own level.

Oh and James Jones comes in 10 mins every game to represent himself, Mike Miller, Marion, Perk and an walking 10 million cap space.


And that is all Lebron has so far in this Finals.

so basically like a big 3 again

[DCL]

JR is shooting 34% so far, almost costing Cavs game 2 with his stupid late game play.

Shumpert is shooting 26% so far, almost costing Cavs game 3 with his stupid late game play.

TT is playing great on the board, but playing like shit on offensive end with 33% FG. 33% ! From a guy who basically just need to do put back and catch & dunk.


Delly & Mozgov play great on both ends, when I say great I mean above their own level.

Oh and James Jones comes in 10 mins every game to represent himself, Mike Miller, Marion, Perk and an walking 10 million cap space.


And that is all Lebron has so far in this Finals.

that's too much logic for ISH. you need to stop.

[plowking]

JR is shooting 34% so far, almost costing Cavs game 2 with his stupid late game play.

Shumpert is shooting 26% so far, almost costing Cavs game 3 with his stupid late game play.

TT is playing great on the board, but playing like shit on offensive end with 33% FG. 33% ! From a guy who basically just need to do put back and catch & dunk.


Delly & Mozgov play great on both ends, when I say great I mean above their own level.

Oh and James Jones comes in 10 mins every game to represent himself, Mike Miller, Marion, Perk and an walking 10 million cap space.


And that is all Lebron has so far in this Finals.

Great breakdown. Seems as if Cavs are just taking turns as to who steps up with Bron.

[tpols]

Same could be said for the Warriors. The Cavs basically need 2-3 more games of that extra gear intensity and energy.

Delly had to get treatment for severe dehydration and cramping after game 3... you can't compare GS who has been sleep walking.. Curry hasn't ran or hustled half as hard as delly plus delly isn't used to having to put full effort in over a long time. He's used to being a spark but is trying to keep that energy meant for short durations up for whole games

[Kingwillball]

I feel like cavs can get more offense out of smith and shumpert. I think these two should be able to contribute 25-30 ppg between them.

[Sakkreth]

Talent wise this should be a sweep.

Why cavs have a chance:

1.LeBron is even more of a beast than everyone thought and plays the way his teams needs him to. He can adapt to the situation while other stars usually needs a team to adapt to them.
2.David Blatt is underrated, he came up with perfect game plan how to make it possible.
3.Everyone on the Cavs plays like there is no tomorrow and that made GSW shook.

[Nuff Said]

Talent wise this should be a sweep.

Why cavs have a chance:

1.LeBron is even more of a beast than everyone thought and plays the way his teams needs him to. He can adapt to the situation while other stars usually needs a team to adapt to them.
2.David Blatt is underrated, he came up with perfect game plan how to make it possible.
3.Everyone on the Cavs plays like there is no tomorrow and that made GSW shook.
It seems like every coach Lebron plays with is underrated and then when he leaves them they suck. I'm not falling for it again. As far as his support goes, LeBron is on his own offensively. His second option in smith pulled in only 10 points on poor efficiency last game. Shit when LeBron is on the bench there's no one even capable of running an offense.

[Sakkreth]

It seems like every coach Lebron plays with is underrated and then when he leaves them they suck. I'm not falling for it again. As far as his support goes, LeBron is on his own offensively. His second option in smith pulled in only 10 points on poor efficiency last game. Shit when LeBron is on the bench there's no one even capable of running an offense.

Never said Spo was a good coach. Whoever came up with this gameplan needs some props. Talking about both - tempo control and defensive plan to dare Green/Iggy shoot while swarming Curry and never leaving Klay.

[Ne 1]

LeBron has had a great all around Westbrook-esque series so far despite the poor efficiency and it's pretty much a one man show on offense, but you can't neglect the fact though that basketball is played on both ends of the floor, defense is half of the game and you can't act like the Cavs have some below average, run of the mill role players when Tristan Thompson is playing like Dennis Rodman and Delly is playing like Sidney Moncrief. Mozgov is playing like an elite rim protector right now, looking like Dwight in the post and Tristan Thompson might be the best offensive rebounder in the NBA, which is a huge key giving the Cavs so many second chance points. Shumpert is also a good defender on the perimeter. You can't neglect that the Cavs defense have held the Warriors to 39 and 40% shooting respectively in the games they won after 48% in regular season and have made the league MVP look so mediocre. The Warriors averaged 110 PPG in the regular season, held to 97 PPG in the Finals by the Cavs defense. Smith, Shumpert, James Jones, and Delly are all very good 3P shooters also. This team is actually suited very well for a high usage ball dominant/high volume shooting star player.

[Ne 1]

Thompsons offensive rebounding has actually helped make up for the James' shooting woes. He keeps buying possession after possession, which not only creates second chance points for the Cavs, but huge momentum shifts as well. The Cavs are getting more shot opportunities from offensive rebounds basically negating many of their misses.

[plowking]

It seems like every coach Lebron plays with is underrated and then when he leaves them they suck. I'm not falling for it again. As far as his support goes, LeBron is on his own offensively. His second option in smith pulled in only 10 points on poor efficiency last game. Shit when LeBron is on the bench there's no one even capable of running an offense.

Spo sucks, while Blatt actually has an idea what he is doing out there.

[DCL]

Blatt's resume before coaching lebron:

Euroleague champion (2014)
Euroleague Coach of the Year (2014)
4

[97 bulls]

Thompsons offensive rebounding has actually helped make up for the James' shooting woes. He keeps buying possession after possession, which not only creates second chance points for the Cavs, but huge momentum shifts as well. The Cavs are getting more shot opportunities from offensive rebounds basically negating many of their misses.
Great post. I've been saying this since game two. The Cavs outside of James arent big name players, but they're playing big. Theyre making big plays. What theyre doing is comparable to big name players.

Delivadova is playing defense like Tony Allen. Mozgov is playing as if hes the best center un the league. Basically having the same impact as Demarcus Cousins. Thompson is playing like Jehoakim Noah.

What would everyone be saying if the Cavs had James, Noah, Cousins, and Allen? Along with one of the best 6th men in JR Smith

[SilkkTheShocker]

Great post. I've been saying this since game two. The Cavs outside of James arent big name players, but they're playing big. Theyre making big plays. What theyre doing is comparable to big name players.

Delivadova is playing defense like Tony Allen. Mozgov is playing as if hes the best center un the league. Basically having the same impact as Demarcus Cousins. Thompson is playing like Jehoakim Noah.

What would everyone be saying if the Cavs had James, Noah, Cousins, and Allen? Along with one of the best 6th men in JR Smith

Gigantic reach right here. Talk about desperate. LeBron haters have officially lost their damn minds

[Tarik One]

This also happened in 2007 when the Bulls swept the Heat and all of their big names...

Bulls:


Luol Deng
P.J. Brown
Ben Wallace
Ben Gordon
Kirk Hinrich


Andres Nocioni
Chris Duhon
Malik Allen
Thabo Sefolosha
Tyrus Thomas
Adrian Griffin
Michael Sweetney

Heat:

James Posey
Udonis Haslem
Shaquille O'Neal
Dwyane Wade
Jason Williams

Gary Payton
Alonzo Mourning
Antoine Walker
Jason Kapono
Dorell Wright
Michael Doleac
Eddie Jones

[Nuff Said]

Spo sucks, while Blatt actually has an idea what he is doing out there.
But lets not act like he wasn't grtting high praise when Miami had great defense or when they had smooth ball movement similar to Spurs style. He was coaching all star teams and all.