Oh wait.... so it turns out being considered GOAT is all about scoring

[3ball]

If Lebron was getting 30/12/8, nobody would say he's on MJ's level.

It's the 40 PPG that puts him on MJ's level of game domination - let's compare the stats from MJ's 1993 Finals vs. Lebron's 2015 Finals:

Jordan: 41.0 ppg.... 8.5 rpg.. 6.3 apg.. 50.8% FG
Lebron: 41.0 ppg.. 12.0 rpg.. 8.3 apg.. 40.2% FG


So the question is what would you prefer - 3 more rebounds and 2 more assists... or 10% more efficiency?

I think the answer is obvious.
.

[ISHGoat]

uh no

[ralph_i_el]

Your grasp of logic and rhetoric is pitiful to say the least.

[3ball]

Your grasp of logic and rhetoric is pitiful to say the least.


You being mad and feeling the need to hurl insults lets me know I'm right and you're insecure about what I said in the OP.

I'm guessing you're mad because you WOULD prefer MJ's 10% higher efficiency over Lebron's 3 more rebounds and 2 more assists.

Don't be mad at yourself for preferring that - EVERYONE would take MJ's much higher FG%.

[LikeABosh]

This could use some context.

[3ball]

This could use some context.
feel free to provide it.

[LikeABosh]

feel free to provide it.
It's your shitty thread retard. Where are these Jordan stats coming from?

[3ball]

It's your shitty thread retard. Where are these Jordan stats coming from?
Those were Jordan's stats in the 1993 Finals.

Again, here's the comparison of Jordan's 1993 Finals vs. Lebron's 2015 Finals:

Jordan: 41.0 ppg.... 8.5 rpg.. 6.3 apg.. 50.8% FG
Lebron: 41.0 ppg.. 12.0 rpg.. 8.3 apg.. 40.2% FG


So again, what would you prefer - 3 more rebounds and 2 more assists... or 10% more efficiency.
.

[dunksby]

6 more RPG, LeBron surpassing Jordan visibly right in front of our eyes :eek:

[PistonsFan#21]

feel free to provide it.

Did Jordan achieve those stats in the Finals against the best team of the league offensively and defensively (67 win team at that) while having one of the worst supporting casts to ever make it to the finals?

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Those were Jordan's stats in the 1993 Finals.

Again, here's the comparison of Jordan's 1993 Finals vs. Lebron's 2015 Finals:

Jordan: 41.0 ppg.... 6.3 rpg.. 8.5 apg.. 50.8% FG
Lebron: 41.0 ppg.. 12.0 rpg.. 8.3 apg.. 40.2% FG


So again, what would you prefer - 6 more rebounds or 10% more efficiency.

Jordan didn't average "8.5" assists in those finals. Fix your stats.

[BlakFrankWhite]

Who gives a crap.

Jordan had a top 5 All-time SF as his #2....LBJ has Dellevadova and Jr smith.

LBJ > MJ

[Im so nba'd out]

i would rather average 41/12/8 than 41/6/8 if i was going to win either way

[LikeABosh]

Those were Jordan's stats in the 1993 Finals.

Again, here's the comparison of Jordan's 1993 Finals vs. Lebron's 2015 Finals:

Jordan: 41.0 ppg.... 6.3 rpg.. 8.5 apg.. 50.8% FG
Lebron: 41.0 ppg.. 12.0 rpg.. 8.3 apg.. 40.2% FG


So again, what would you prefer - 6 more rebounds or 10% more efficiency.
Lebron is taking on the #1 defense in the league by himself, the second option is who? Dellevadova? 1993 Suns were a mediocre defense and Jordan had Pippen and the GOAT coach along with an overall MUCH MUCH better team. Next

[24-Inch_Chrome]

3ball making a case for a repeat ban already. Love the initiative. :applause:

[1987_Lakers]

OP insecure as f,uck.:oldlol:

[KNOW1EDGE]

Yes I think it's obvious everyone would prefer 6 more rebounds.

But that seems counterproductive to your agenda

[Rocketswin2013]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/NBA_1993_finals.html

OP LYING out of desperation. :roll:

Jordan had 41 PPG, 8.5 RPG, and 6.3 APG, with less steals and blocks.

[OldSchoolBBall]

lol @ people talking about GS as "the best defense in the league" as Lebron has been on an island all series and has had enormous space to operate and all the time in the world (routinely taking 8-10+ seconds on scoring possessions). It's not even comparable to what Jordan faced in the 1993 Finals against an admittedly average/above-average defensive team. People are kidding themselves.

[supermechasonic]

If Lebron pulls this off i gota give the nod to bron.

[3ball]

Did Jordan achieve those stats in the Finals against the best team of the league (67 win team) while having one of the worst supporting casts to ever make it to the finals?
Suns had the best record in the league in 1993 and were more stacked than the Warriors.

Even if you disagree, it's splitting hairs to debate who was more stacked - it's very common knowledge that both teams were juggernauts and stacked from top to bottom.. If you haven't heard of Richard Dumas, that's your problem - but he was better than Harrison Barnes by a longshot.

Also, MJ got his 41 PPG against consistent double teams, while Lebron hasn't been doubled at all in this series - there's some excellent context.

[Rocketswin2013]

lol @ people talking about GS as "the best defense in the league" as Lebron has been on an island all series and has had enormous space to operate and all the time in the world (routinely taking 8-10+ seconds on scoring possessions). It's not even comparable to what Jordan faced in the 1993 Finals against an admittedly average/above-average defensive team. People are kidding themselves.
Jordan had a much, much better supporting cast.

[Bankaii]

Quit swapping numbers to pad Jordan's assists. Lebron has 4 more rebounds and 2 more assists. And yes, I would take that over the higher fg%.

[Milbuck]

Anyone else go back and watch Jordan footage from the '93 finals? It's a complete joke how big a difference Iggy is on Lebron vs a guy like Majerle on Jordan. Iggy is doing as good a job as anyone could this side of Kawhi and Jimmy Buckets, whereas Majerle literally couldn't stay with Jordan for more than 2 seconds at a time. A lot of it Jordan's quickness but a ton of it is what a comical defensive matchup it was. And when Majerle wasn't getting shat on, he had guys like KJ on him who he could abuse with his size.

People are really down on this Warriors team, and understandably so, but imo their defense shits on that Suns defense against Jordan in the finals. You put Bron in Mike's place and he probably puts up the same numbers, dude would wreck that Suns paint defense.

[3ball]

Quit swapping numbers to pad Jordan's assists. Lebron has 4 more rebounds and 2 more assists. And yes, I would take that over the higher fg%.
Honest mistake (OP fixed) that makes no difference...

If Lebron was shooting 51% in this series instead of 41%, that would outweigh an extra 3 rebounds and 2 assists anyway.

[PistonsFan#21]

Suns had the best record in the league in 1993 and were more stacked than the Warriors.

Even if you disagree, it's splitting hairs to debate who was more stacked - it's very common knowledge that both teams were juggernauts and stacked from top to bottom.. If you haven't heard of Richard Dumas, that's your problem - but he was better than Harrison Barnes by a longshot.

Also, MJ got his 41 PPG against consistent double teams, while Lebron hasn't been doubled at all in this series - there's some excellent context.

Were the suns also ranked as the best defensive team in the league stats wise for that year?

Also lets not even talk about the fact that the Warriors achieved 5 more wins playing in a Western conference that was way more stacked than during that 1993 year. They had 2 teams that were at .500 or below making the playoffs

[LikeABosh]

Suns had the best record in the league in 1993 and were more stacked than the Warriors.

Even if you disagree, it's splitting hairs to debate who was more stacked - it's very common knowledge that both teams were juggernauts and stacked from top to bottom.. If you haven't heard of Richard Dumas, that's your problem - but he was better than Harrison Barnes by a longshot.

Also, MJ got his 41 PPG against consistent double teams, while Lebron hasn't been doubled at all in this series - there's some excellent context.
Jordan was on an island vs Majerle all the time.

[Ca$H]

If Lebron was getting 30/12/8, nobody would say he's on MJ's level.

It's the 40 PPG that puts him on MJ's level of game domination - let's compare the stats from MJ's 1993 Finals vs. Lebron's 2015 Finals:

Jordan: 41.0 ppg.... 8.5 rpg.. 6.3 apg.. 50.8% FG
Lebron: 41.0 ppg.. 12.0 rpg.. 8.3 apg.. 40.2% FG


So the question is what would you prefer - 3 more rebounds and 2 more assists... or 10% more efficiency?

I think the answer is obvious.
.

Barkely, KJ, and Majerle >>>>>>>>>> Curry, Klay, and Draymond.

MJ faced much tougher competition.

[PistonsFan#21]

Anyone else go back and watch Jordan footage from the '93 finals? It's a complete joke how big a difference Iggy is on Lebron vs a guy like Majerle on Jordan. Iggy is doing as good a job as anyone could this side of Kawhi and Jimmy Buckets, whereas Majerle literally couldn't stay with Jordan for more than 2 seconds at a time. A lot of it Jordan's quickness but a ton of it is what a comical defensive matchup it was. And when Majerle wasn't getting shat on, he had guys like KJ on him who he could abuse with his size.

People are really down on this Warriors team, and understandably so, but imo their defense shits on that Suns defense against Jordan in the finals. You put Bron in Mike's place and he probably puts up the same numbers, dude would wreck that Suns paint defense.

Not if he was met at the rim by the 6'6'' shot blocker and paint protector Charles Barkley :bowdown:

[3ball]

Anyone else go back and watch Jordan footage from the '93 finals? It's a complete joke how big a difference Iggy is on Lebron vs a guy like Majerle on Jordan. Iggy is doing as good a job as anyone could this side of Kawhi and Jimmy Buckets, whereas Majerle literally couldn't stay with Jordan for more than 2 seconds at a time. A lot of it Jordan's quickness but a ton of it is what a comical defensive matchup it was. And when Majerle wasn't getting shat on, he had guys like KJ on him who he could abuse with his size.

People are really down on this Warriors team, and understandably so, but imo their defense shits on that Suns defense against Jordan in the finals. You put Bron in Mike's place and he probably puts up the same numbers, dude would wreck that Suns paint defense.
Suns also had Richard Dumas, who was the same kind of athlete as Iggy.. Iggy isn't even in his prime anymore.. He's definitely lost a step.. Of course, Dumas was way better offensively - Dumas averaged 16 PPG in 1993 regular season and Finals.

Also, Dan Majerle was an All-NBA defender in 1991 and 1993 and a 3-time All-Star.. He was just as big and strong as Iggy - bigger and stronger actually.. and WAAAAAY better offensively... Majerle averaged 17 PPG and 4 APG in 1993 regular season and Finals.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

No. Being GOAT is about being named LeBron James.

[3ball]

Jordan had a much, much better supporting cast.


In the 1993 Finals, both teams (Suns and Bulls) averaged EXACTLY 106.7 PPG and 113.0 ORtg in the series...

The series couldn't have been closer, DESPITE the Bulls better supporting cast and MJ's 41 PPG on 51%..

This PROVES that the Suns were a far better team than these Warriors.. MJ's superior stats and supporting cast resulted in a dead even series.
.

[VeeCee15]

it's actually 20%+ more efficiency.


40/50 = 80%, or 80/100 = 80%
100% - 80% = 20%



therefore, jordan is 20% more efficient on the scoring end. Which is a lot.

[Rocketswin2013]

In the 1993 Finals, both teams (Suns and Bulls) averaged EXACTLY 106.7 PPG and 113.0 ORtg in the series...

The series couldn't have been closer, DESPITE the Bulls better supporting cast and MJ's 41 PPG on 51%..

This PROVES that the Suns were a far better team than these Warriors.. MJ's superior stats and supporting cast resulted in a dead even series.
.
Well, he definitely didn't control the pace and play the outstanding defense against a great offense like LeBron has in this series.So, there you go.

You take Jordan's efficiency, I'll take LeBron's pace control, defense, rebounding, playmaking, and all-around defense on the opposing MVP. Hell, I bet LeBron could've played much better defense on a peak Barkley than whatever Jordan did in this series. Stop chuck? Hell no. Compete with him on the glass, in the post, and use his strength and athleticism in the post to make it harder for him? Yes.

[r15mohd]

Suns also had Richard Dumas, who was the same kind of athlete as Iggy.. Iggy isn't even in his prime anymore.. He's definitely lost a step.. Of course, Dumas was way better offensively - Dumas averaged 16 PPG in 1993 regular season and Finals.

Also, Dan Majerle was an All-NBA defender in 1991 and 1993 and a 3-time All-Star.. He was just as big and strong as Iggy - bigger and stronger actually.. and WAAAAAY better offensively... Majerle averaged 17 PPG and 4 APG in 1993 regular season and Finals.


weren't you undermining Lebron prior to the Finals and saying Iggy is a top notch defender and Lebron will have his share of difficulties against him...now that Lebron is pushing the whole of the GSW face in, Iggy's "lost a step" :rolleyes:

[juju151111]

Well, he definitely didn't control the pace and play the outstanding defense against a great offense like LeBron has in this series.So, there you go.

You take Jordan's efficiency, I'll take LeBron's pace control, defense, rebounding, playmaking, and all-around defense on the opposing MVP. Hell, I bet LeBron could've played much better defense on a peak Barkley than whatever Jordan did in this series. Stop chuck? Hell no. Compete with him on the glass, in the post, and use his strength and athleticism in the post to make it harder for him? Yes.
LJ is not guarding Curry and Mj played defense too. Mj controled the pace too that's why they won the series. You acting like the cle has been blowing out GS. All Cle is doing is daring the role players like green,Barnes,Bogut etc... to do something offensively after trapping Curry. Those guys haven't been doing shit with Wide open shots. Also because Curry is not really a penetrate guy it's easier. The Phx Suns didn't have no liability on offense.

[LAZERUSS]

Ask Bill Russell what he thinks.

[Kvnzhangyay]

Those were Jordan's stats in the 1993 Finals.

Again, here's the comparison of Jordan's 1993 Finals vs. Lebron's 2015 Finals:

Jordan: 41.0 ppg.... 8.5 rpg.. 6.3 apg.. 50.8% FG
Lebron: 41.0 ppg.. 12.0 rpg.. 8.3 apg.. 40.2% FG


So again, what would you prefer - 3 more rebounds and 2 more assists... or 10% more efficiency.
.

He was being guarded at large stretches by KJ

[juju151111]

weren't you undermining Lebron prior to the Finals and saying Iggy is a top notch defender and Lebron will have his share of difficulties against him...now that Lebron is pushing the whole of the GSW face in, Iggy's "lost a step" :rolleyes:
He not pushing anything in. He shooting inefficienct, but Cle rebounding and defense makes up for it. Just like Iverson shot inefficient through the 01, playoffs but still made the finals. If his team wasn't a great offensive rebounding team his shot missing would be bad, but his team is great defensively

[3ball]

Hell, I bet LeBron could've played much better defense on a peak Barkley than whatever Jordan did in this series. Stop chuck? Hell no. Compete with him on the glass, in the post, and use his strength and athleticism in the post to make it harder for him? Yes.


That's funny - Lebron NEVER guarded Tim Duncan or Dirk Nowitski... Obviously, that would've taken Lebron out of his game - he wouldn't have energy for offense, and/or would be in foul trouble.. There's a reason Lebron never guards elite PF's... ever... Or maybe you can show me a possession where he guarded Dirk... I'll wait.

The one time he guarded a semi-decent PF was when he guarded David West in Game 1 of 2014 ECF.. He got utterly destroyed and the Heat lost.. Spolestra had to change the defensive game plan for the rest of the series... This is well-documented.

Also, the type of pressure and consistent aggression that Barkley imposes on a defender is not seen in today's game.. I'm guessing you are a young fan, in which case you've never seen this level of play aren't aware that it exists.. Dirk's consistent, play-in-play-out offensive aggression in 2011 is comparable.. But Barkley gets his in a far more physical, wearing-down manner.
.

[hateraid]

Suns had the best record in the league in 1993 and were more stacked than the Warriors.

Even if you disagree, it's splitting hairs to debate who was more stacked - it's very common knowledge that both teams were juggernauts and stacked from top to bottom.. If you haven't heard of Richard Dumas, that's your problem - but he was better than Harrison Barnes by a longshot.

As a Sixers fan to experience him Richard Dumas wasn't great. He's essentially a less productive JR Smith with a worse attitude.



Also, MJ got his 41 PPG against consistent double teams, while Lebron hasn't been doubled at all in this series - there's some excellent context
Not true. In fact that was some of the criticism of the Suns was they were told to stick man to man and do not double.

I remember all this since I followed Barkley and wanted to see him win. I remember that was to be the game plan was not to double. It almost worked as game 6 Jordan was struggling. If it weren't for Paxson and Pippen in the fourth that game was all Suns.

[juju151111]

He was being guarded at large stretches by KJ
Long defenders don't have success guarding Mj. Which is why the go for someone with quicker feet. They tried everyone including Richard Dumars who is tall and athletic. Didn't matter.

[rmt]

No, or Bill Russell would be on no one's GOAT list.

[juju151111]

As a Sixers fan to experience him Richard Dumas wasn't great. He's essentially a less productive JR Smith with a worse attitude.



Not true. In fact that was some of the criticism of the Suns was they were told to stick man to man and do not double.

I remember all this since I followed Barkley and wanted to see him win. I remember that was to be the game plan was not to double. It almost worked as game 6 Jordan was struggling. If it weren't for Paxson and Pippen in the fourth that game was all Suns.
What? Wasn't Mj the only one scoring in the 4th in game 6 until Paxton hit a shot?:wtf:

[3ball]

Well, he definitely didn't control the pace and play the outstanding defense against a great offense like LeBron has in this series.So, there you go.


Again, the Suns were a better team than the Warriors - MJ's superior supporting cast and stats BAAAAAAARELY beat the Suns.... Both teams averaged exactly 106.7 PPG and 113.0 ORtg for the series.

The fact that MJ's superior supporting cast and stats barely beat the Suns, shows how much better the Suns were than these Warriors.

[3ball]

Wasn't Mj the only one scoring in the 4th in game 6 until Paxton hit a shot?



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cy_Pjg1zFjc&t=48m46s


"Those are the only points scored by anyone other than MJ, in the entire 4th quarter!"

[r15mohd]

He not pushing anything in. He shooting inefficienct, but Cle rebounding and defense makes up for it. Just like Iverson shot inefficient through the 01, playoffs but still made the finals. If his team wasn't a great offensive rebounding team his shot missing would be bad, but his team is great defensively

we're speaking reality...not "if" here

Lebron is also a very high factor on defense, as well as rebounds too. then he is the leader on offense and directing basically every offense set that takes place. you can deny all you'd like, but he's having his way in almost every aspect of the game during these 1st 3games, and that pretty much means he's pushing their sh!t in. :rolleyes: :facepalm

[ralph_i_el]

You being mad and feeling the need to hurl insults lets me know I'm right and you're insecure about what I said in the OP.

I'm guessing you're mad because you WOULD prefer MJ's 10% higher efficiency over Lebron's 3 more rebounds and 2 more assists.

Don't be mad at yourself for preferring that - EVERYONE would take MJ's much higher FG%.

:facepalm LeBron is single-handedly beating the best team this season with his two best supporting players out. He's completely changed up his style to slow the game down and prevent the Warriors from pushing the tempo....and he's doing all that while out rebounding and out assisting MJ's best finals.

LeBron's efficiency is down because of what his team is trying to do right now. A huge percentage of his missed shots are being offensive rebounded, because the Cavs have punted on trying to space the floor and are instead playing closer a grind-it-out 90's style offense....and LeBron is dominating.


3Ball, every one of your threads is the same:

1. have 1 slightly logical idea
2. stretch it way to far
3. draw illogical conclusion
4. fudge the stats until someone actually looks them up

[KungFuJoe]

OK. First of all Lebron hasn't won anything yet. This series is still going. He could end up the Jerry West route for all we know.

That being said, Jordan did have a stellar supporting cast and was still putting up monster stats. Suns were no slouch. MVP Barkley, KJ, Majerle and Dumas (who had a very good season).

[juju151111]

we're speaking reality...not "if" here

Lebron is also a very high factor on defense, as well as rebounds too. then he is the leader on offense and directing basically every offense set that takes place. you can deny all you'd like, but he's having his way in almost every aspect of the game during these 1st 3games, and that pretty much means he's pushing their sh!t in. :rolleyes: :facepalm
I'm talking reality. If you miss a ton of shots and give the other team more opportunities to score it would be bad for your team, but if you have great defense and rebounding you can afford to miss a lot of shots. I agree with LJ all around game, but he is not destroying Iggy is my point. Iggy has played him good

[KungFuJoe]

And the whole losing Love and Kyrie isn't all bad. Those two were porous on D (though Kyrie seemed to be improving) and it would have meant less minutes for TT who is giving GS absolute fits on the offensive boards. Dude is everywhere. And Delly too. How many minutes would he be getting?

On that note you gotta feel bad for Kyrie. Young player trying to be a superstar. First ever Finals. Gets hurt and has to watch a role player step up and steal the show.

[3ball]

imo their (GSW) defense shits on that Suns defense against Jordan in the finals.

Lebron would wreck the Suns paint defense



How can you look at wide open paints with ZERO help defenders on strongside and say it's better defense?


http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/5-25-2015/7mUjI9.gif



Seriously, how can you say that?


http://www.gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/bc4b2f6a384a3b07a1291fa3e7495bec.gif


It's no comparison... MJ faced packed paints... And there was no weakside spacing to draw defenders away from the strongside, so MJ faced a strongside that contained all 5 defenders - all 4 help defenders were in closer proximity on the STRONGSIDE.

Otoh, Lebron faces wide open paints, while weakside spacing enables him to face only 1 defender on the strongside - indeed, he faces ZERO help defenders on strongside - all help defenders are further away on weakside.
.

[colts19]

Here's the thing. Lebron is having a great series. I think Lebron is great. I would simply like to point out that things haven't really changed as much as people think.

We have had 3 close games and cleveland could be up 3-0, but they could easily be down 3-0. So what if. Curry were having a average shooting percentage. Cleveland would be down 3-0 and instead of talking about how great Lebron is, everyone would be saying, If lebron wasn't shooting 25% with a lot of turnovers in the 4th quarter and overtime, cleveland would be winning and he would be called a choker just like always.

I never really saw Jordan play this poorly in the 4th quarter of a series. So even though I don't think Jordan is GOAT, I do think he was a much better player when the game is on the line than Lebron. JMHO.

[1987_Lakers]

http://www.gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/bc4b2f6a384a3b07a1291fa3e7495bec.gif

The defense by Dan Majerle:roll:

[LikeABosh]

How can you look at wide open paints with ZERO help defenders on strongside and say it's better defense?


http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/5-25-2015/7mUjI9.gif



Seriously, how can you say that?


http://www.gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/bc4b2f6a384a3b07a1291fa3e7495bec.gif


It's no comparison... MJ faced packed paints... And there was no weakside spacing to draw defenders away from the strongside, so MJ faced a strongside that contained all 5 defenders - all 4 help defenders were in closer proximity on the STRONGSIDE.

Otoh, Lebron faces wide open paints, while weakside spacing enables him to face only 1 defender on the strongside - indeed, he faces ZERO help defenders on strongside - all help defenders are further away on weakside.
.
Reported for spam.

[pauk]

If Lebron was getting 30/12/8, nobody would say he's on MJ's level.

It's the 40 PPG that puts him on MJ's level of game domination - let's compare the stats from MJ's 1993 Finals vs. Lebron's 2015 Finals:

Jordan: 41.0 ppg.... 8.5 rpg.. 6.3 apg.. 50.8% FG
Lebron: 41.0 ppg.. 12.0 rpg.. 8.3 apg.. 40.2% FG


So the question is what would you prefer - 3 more rebounds and 2 more assists... or 10% more efficiency?

I think the answer is obvious.
.
Yes its obvious... ofcourse you want more rebounding and playmaking, 41 & 8 is more points on the boxscore than 41 & 6 is... there is also assists that are not recorded aswell when your teammate gets fouled under the basket and hits fts.... then that the 41-8 guy is grabing more rebounds aswell meaning he saves & gives extra possessions....

Should be very obvious....

[Rocketswin2013]

You can't debate delusion.

[3ball]

The defense by Dan Majerle:roll:



MJ faced far superior help defense - with no weakside spacing, he faced FOUR help defenders on strongside:

http://www.gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/bc4b2f6a384a3b07a1291fa3e7495bec.gif


Otoh, Lebron enjoys weakside spacing, so he faces zero help defenders on strongside - all help defenders are further away on weakside:

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/5-25-2015/7mUjI9.gif


Btw, you are being racist on Majerle - you are using the fact that he's white to say he was slow and couldn't play defense - but in reality, he was All-NBA defense in 1993 alongside guys like Pippen, Dumars, Jordan and Rodman (Pistons).

But I'll satisfy your racist itch - Richard Dumas was black, and he was an elite superathlete, long, 6'8" wing player... He guarded MJ a ton too... So there you go.

[ImKobe]

MJ's team actually won the Finals

Jordan is simply the better player, one series average or any series average for that matter is not going to change it at this point. Jordan was better at getting to the rim, he had better handles, mid-range, post game, on and off-ball defense, transition defense, dunking ability...

heck, you could even make the argument that Jordan was the better passer...

people are just living off the hype of Lebron putting up great raw numbers and is actually winning because the other team is even worse at scoring the ball than he is.

There's no reason your team should be winning in the Finals when your best player is putting up 40 points on 40% shooting while missing 20 shots a game. Golden State somehow lost a game on their home floor with Lebron missing 19 out of 23 shots in the 2nd half, let that sink in.

As good as Lebron has been overall in the series, Golden State is losing because their shots simply haven't fallen. They have been terrible from deep and Curry can't seem to handle Matthew Dellavedova.

[r15mohd]

I'm talking reality. If you miss a ton of shots and give the other team more opportunities to score it would be bad for your team, but if you have great defense and rebounding you can afford to miss a lot of shots. I agree with LJ all around game, but he is not destroying Iggy is my point. Iggy has played him good

well that can be said for the offense and Lebron setting up the half court and running these plays down into the shot clock so GSW cannot have more opportunities. this is more of what's happening because he is still missing a lot of shots for his own regard, granted he's still scoring at a heavy rate but no one on GSW can stop him, including Iggy. he's made it more of a challenge, but even Iggy can't prevent Lebron getting to the basket.

Iggy's played him better than other GSW players who've had far worse attempts, but to say he's not beasting on him is ridiculous in seeing the numbers he putting up through the 3 games. all the rhetoric passed through after game 1 and how Lebron was not as great when Iggy came in the game, and granted it became more challenging, but that hasn't prevented him from continuing the same route in games 2 and 3. inefficient or not, Lebron is getting his way.

[r15mohd]

Here's the thing. Lebron is having a great series. I think Lebron is great. I would simply like to point out that things haven't really changed as much as people think.

We have had 3 close games and cleveland could be up 3-0, but they could easily be down 3-0. So what if. Curry were having a average shooting percentage. Cleveland would be down 3-0 and instead of talking about how great Lebron is, everyone would be saying, If lebron wasn't shooting 25% with a lot of turnovers in the 4th quarter and overtime, cleveland would be winning and he would be called a choker just like always.

I never really saw Jordan play this poorly in the 4th quarter of a series. So even though I don't think Jordan is GOAT, I do think he was a much better player when the game is on the line than Lebron. JMHO.


i dont think anyone denies this.

[ImKobe]

well that can be said for the offense and Lebron setting up the half court and running these plays down into the shot clock so GSW cannot have more opportunities. this is more of what's happening because he is still missing a lot of shots for his own regard, granted he's still scoring at a heavy rate but no one on GSW can stop him, including Iggy. he's made it more of a challenge, but even Iggy can't prevent Lebron getting to the basket.

Iggy's played him better than other GSW players who've had far worse attempts, but to say he's not beasting on him is ridiculous in seeing the numbers he putting up through the 3 games. all the rhetoric passed through after game 1 and how Lebron was not as great when Iggy came in the game, and granted it became more challenging, but that hasn't prevented him from continuing the same route in games 2 and 3. inefficient or not, Lebron is getting his way.

Lebron is only getting his way because GS blew Game 2 at home while Lebron couldn't buy a basket in the 2nd half, let's be honest here. And no one can stop him from getting to the basket? How come he's shooting 40% then? How come is he shooting all those jump shots if he could just get to the basket any time he wanted...

Truth of the matter is that they have been defending Lebron well, but it's their offense that is losing them the series so far. Curry isn't ice cold in Game 2 and we're looking at a 2 - 1 Golden State lead right now..

[r15mohd]

MJ's team actually won the Finals

Jordan is simply the better player, one series average or any series average for that matter is not going to change it at this point. Jordan was better at getting to the rim, he had better handles, mid-range, post game, on and off-ball defense, transition defense, dunking ability...

heck, you could even make the argument that Jordan was the better passer...

people are just living off the hype of Lebron putting up great raw numbers and is actually winning because the other team is even worse at scoring the ball than he is.

There's no reason your team should be winning in the Finals when your best player is putting up 40 points on 40% shooting while missing 20 shots a game. Golden State somehow lost a game on their home floor with Lebron missing 19 out of 23 shots in the 2nd half, let that sink in.

As good as Lebron has been overall in the series, Golden State is losing because their shots simply haven't fallen. They have been terrible from deep and Curry can't seem to handle Matthew Dellavedova.

exactly the same can be said for the Cavs...especially in games 1 and 2. but the defense isn't the reason the Cavs are missing their shots, it's the players not being able to make it fall however for GSW, the Cavs defense on the perimeter is giving their best shooters (Curry/Klay) the best defense they've seen all year and are indeed making it extremely challenging for them.

key difference here...also, on the offensive board, with the amount of missed opportunities the Cavs have had on offensive boards putbacks this series, it wouldn't be as close. in game 1 alone, Moz and TT were 1-11 on offensive boards put-backs. that is another area the Cavs just arent following through in this area as they have before.

[ImKobe]

exactly the same can be said for the Cavs...especially in games 1 and 2. but the defense is the reason the Cavs are missing their shots, it's the players not being able to make it fall however for GSW, the Cavs defense on the perimeter is giving their best shooters (Curry/Klay) the best defense they've seen all year and are indeed making it extremely challenging for them.

key difference here...also, on the offensive board, with the amount of missed opportunities the Cavs have had on offensive boards putbacks this series, it wouldn't be as close. in game 1 alone, Moz and TT were 1-11 on offensive boards put-backs. that is another area the Cavs just arent following through in this area as they have before.

GS got a legit front court, that's why. I do agree that Cavs have been playing great defense, but when I look at the misses from Game 2, Curry missed a ton of makeable shots, shots he usually makes in his sleep.

I guess it will come down to which team gets worn out first. Can Lebron keep playing at that usage rate and produce like this the entire series? will Curry keep missing? Will Dellavedova keep playing that well?

I'll just wait for the game now but I'm predicting that Golden State ties this series up with their team game while Lebron has an off night, this is going 7 games.

[3ball]

LeBron is single-handedly beating the best team this season with his two best supporting players out.


This is all explained away by him not facing double teams..

Also, Blatt clears out the strongside so Lebron is all alone to go 1-on-1... All help defenders are far away on the weakside... It's well-documented - even NBA TV and Grantland have talked about how Lebron enjoys "weakside spacing" as they call it.

The weakside spacing has been around for a few years, but the strongside clearouts are actually totally new - the strongside clearouts are when all 4 help defenders are on the far weakside and far away from the 1-on-1 action on the strongside.. The Cavs have basically invented it in these playoffs - it's a new way to exploit the spacing that more teams will adopt going forward.





LeBron's efficiency is down because of what his team is trying to do right now. A huge percentage of his missed shots are being offensive rebounded


Oh, so Lebron's misses are on purpose?... That's your excuse for his horrible efficiency?.. LOL...

Btw, I've always told you that when the #1 option is gunning, the team's offensive rebounding rate will be higher... Next time, just take my word for it - that way you won't have to wait until you see it for yourself... :rolleyes:





the Cavs have punted on trying to space the floor and are instead playing closer a grind-it-out 90's style offense


^^^^^^ Oxymoron.. Cavs can't space the floor AND be playing a 90's style..

Again, the offense they're currently employing is totally new to the NBA - i'm talking about when they clear out the strongside and put 4 offensive players on the far weakside - this is totally new - no team was doing that even last year - this is a new way to exploit today's spacing that more teams will adopt going forward.
.

[r15mohd]

Lebron is only getting his way because GS blew Game 2 at home while Lebron couldn't buy a basket in the 2nd half, let's be honest here. And no one can stop him from getting to the basket? How come he's shooting 40% then? How come is he shooting all those jump shots if he could just get to the basket any time he wanted...

Truth of the matter is that they have been defending Lebron well, but it's their offense that is losing them the series so far. Curry isn't ice cold in Game 2 and we're looking at a 2 - 1 Golden State lead right now..

their offense is being dictated by Lebron and the Cavs slow-pace factor, with the great offensive boards racked up by the Cavs front court. that is why they aren't having the many opportunities to shoot lights out, like we've seen through the season. then add that to the intense defense they are putting on Curry, and Klay, even with the switches.

i do agree it would be GREAT if Lebron found his shot to make things easier, but he is putting up descent looks if not great looks. his shot isn't falling either, but he is getting in the paint and making it happen at point-blank range.

unless GSW has a game plan to get Curry free and pick up the tempo a bit more, it's not looking good for the GSW

[dude77]

Curry can't seem to handle Matthew Dellavedova.

:oldlol: who would've thought anyone would ever hear this

[r15mohd]

GS got a legit front court, that's why. I do agree that Cavs have been playing great defense, but when I look at the misses from Game 2, Curry missed a ton of makeable shots, shots he usually makes in his sleep.

I guess it will come down to which team gets worn out first. Can Lebron keep playing at that usage rate and produce like this the entire series? will Curry keep missing? Will Dellavedova keep playing that well?

I'll just wait for the game now but I'm predicting that Golden State ties this series up with their team game while Lebron has an off night, this is going 7 games.


legit but has been pretty non-existent so far...agree, disagree?

and again, same can be said for the shot selection for the Cavs...they havent been falling even with more open looks, as opposed to challenged shots in which the Cavs are providing the GSW.

and yes, that is the leading factor...who will wear down first, Lebron and the Cavs short rotation or the GSW? :confusedshrug: definitely hope neither so it can play out to its truest potential right now.

i didn't give Cavs a chance this series, maybe take 1 game at most if Kyrie was not available. but they've seem to figure out a way to beat GSW, and it's worked 2 out of 3 games now...the Cavs SHOULD HAVE won game 1, Lebron needed to drive instead of fadeaway and the OT had the Cavs completely gassed. if the same style of play continues in that the Cavs can control the pace of the game...i can see a win tonight for CLE, GSW takes game 5 and back to the Cavs to close it out in 6.

nevertheless...it's been a really enjoyable Finals. :applause: :applause: :applause:

[Keno]

the more rebounds and assists, and it's not even close.

[LAZERUSS]

Did Jordan achieve those stats in the Finals against the best team of the league offensively and defensively (67 win team at that) while having one of the worst supporting casts to ever make it to the finals?


The last time MJ faced a team of this caliber, and with an equal supporting cast to what Lebron has now, his team was swept by the '87 Celtics, in a series in which MJ averaged 36 ppg on a .417 FG%.

[OldSchoolBBall]

The defense by Dan Majerle:roll:

Err, Jordan would have done that to any defender. Notice how he makes his jab step (which had to be respected) right as Majerle clears the screen, causing him to slide to the left, then Jordan explodes baseline, makes a hop step to get through a seam, and finishes.

[OldSchoolBBall]

The last time MJ faced a team of this caliber, and with an equal supporting cast to what Lebron has now, his team was swept by the '87 Celtics, in a series in which MJ averaged 36 ppg on a .417 FG%.

This GS team isn't even in the same UNIVERSE as the '86 Celtics, who were lead by a top 5 GOAT at his peak along with a balanced inside/outside attack as well as the best front line ever. The fact that anyone would even say this after seeing this team look average for the last 3 games is a joke. :oldlol:

[LAZERUSS]

This GS team isn't even in the same UNIVERSE as the '86 Celtics, who were lead by a top 5 GOAT at his peak along with a balanced inside/outside attack as well as the best front line ever. The fact that anyone would even say this after seeing this team look average for the last 3 games is a joke. :oldlol:

I didn't say the '86 Celtics, you idiot. I said the '87 Celtics. And you are seriously under-rating this GS team if you think they were not a great team this year.

The '87 Celtics were in a state of decline. And yet, they still shut MJ down, and easily swept his Bulls. Yep...no miracle that year.

[OldSchoolBBall]

I didn't say the '86 Celtics, you idiot. I said the '87 Celtics. And you are seriously under-rating this GS team if you think they were not a great team this year.

The '87 Celtics were in a state of decline. And yet, they still shut MJ down, and easily swept his Bulls. Yep...no miracle that year.

Still WORLDS better than this GS team. Shows how biased tou are if you think they're even comparable. GS has been a paper tiger all year. I've been saying it the whole season and now it's showing. You even saw it at times against Memphis. They're not an all-time level team.

That was also Jordan's third full season, not his 11th.

[Hey Yo]

That's funny - Lebron NEVER guarded Tim Duncan or Dirk Nowitski... Obviously, that would've taken Lebron out of his game - he wouldn't have energy for offense, and/or would be in foul trouble.. There's a reason Lebron never guards elite PF's... ever... Or maybe you can show me a possession where he guarded Dirk... I'll wait.

The one time he guarded a semi-decent PF was when he guarded David West in Game 1 of 2014 ECF.. He got utterly destroyed and the Heat lost.. Spolestra had to change the defensive game plan for the rest of the series... This is well-documented.

Also, the type of pressure and consistent aggression that Barkley imposes on a defender is not seen in today's game.. I'm guessing you are a young fan, in which case you've never seen this level of play aren't aware that it exists.. Dirk's consistent, play-in-play-out offensive aggression in 2011 is comparable.. But Barkley gets his in a far more physical, wearing-down manner.
.
How would you know? You said you haven't watched an NBA game in like 3 or 4yrs?

[ArbitraryWater]

I would prefer equal ppg, bunch more rebounds and assists while 10% less efficient, if you were defended by Andre Igoudala, Draymond Green, elite defenders, and not Danny Ainge, Dan Majerle.

[oarabbus]

If Lebron was getting 30/12/8, nobody would say he's on MJ's level.

It's the 40 PPG that puts him on MJ's level of game domination - let's compare the stats from MJ's 1993 Finals vs. Lebron's 2015 Finals:

Jordan: 41.0 ppg.... 8.5 rpg.. 6.3 apg.. 50.8% FG
Lebron: 41.0 ppg.. 12.0 rpg.. 8.3 apg.. 40.2% FG


So the question is what would you prefer - 3 more rebounds and 2 more assists... or 10% more efficiency?

I think the answer is obvious.
.


Sure is.

I sure as hell ain't choosing the scrub who couldn't even average a DOUBLE DOUBLE on the biggest stage.

[24-Inch_Chrome]

Sure is.

I sure as hell ain't choosing the scrub who couldn't even average a DOUBLE DOUBLE on the biggest stage.

http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Kevin-Garnett-Reaction-at-2013-Dunk-Contest.gif

[riseagainst]

Sure is.

I sure as hell ain't choosing the scrub who couldn't even average a DOUBLE DOUBLE on the biggest stage.


:lol
:roll:

[3ball]

Err, Jordan would have done that to any defender. Notice how he makes his jab step (which had to be respected) right as Majerle clears the screen, causing him to slide to the left, then Jordan explodes baseline, makes a hop step to get through a seam, and finishes.


http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/6-05-2015/P5Zone.gif


OldSchool, I have a question.. I would've made a new thread about it, but I didn't want the question to be misinterpreted and get me banned for repeat topic.

Are the strongside clearouts that David Blatt is doing completely new, as in, it wasn't even done EVEN LAST YEAR?..

In all the GIFs I did and highlights of last seasons plays, I never saw that type of clearout, where 4 offensive players are sent to the far weakside, BEHIND the far side of the paint, so the remaining player can go 1-on-1 all alone on the strongside.

Like, isn't this something new that's being done for the first time in these very playoffs - isn't this a new way to exploit the spacing and control pace that Blatt has discovered?
.

[imnew09]

Sure is.

I sure as hell ain't choosing the scrub who couldn't even average a DOUBLE DOUBLE on the biggest stage.


I feel you! I mean who da fu gon choose Curry right

[DMV2]

The amazing thing from Game 3 was that LeBron was only 3 assists away from a triple double at the end of the 3rd Quarter. He never once forced it just to get that triple double.

3ball...the best you can do is really just let the series play out and pray that he has a bad game with 29 points or something.

[DMV2]

I would prefer equal ppg, bunch more rebounds and assists while 10% less efficient, if you were defended by Andre Igoudala, Draymond Green, elite defenders, and not Danny Ainge, Dan Majerle.
Danny Ainge wasn't a great defender? :biggums:
And he sure as hell had twice the brains Iggy and Green has.

Dude was a pest. Rich man's Delly.

[3ball]

3ball...the best you can do is really just let the series play out and pray that he has a bad game with 29 points or something.


I don't mind if Lebron wins this year - I predicted it in January, and I've understood for quite some time that today's spacing and hands-off defensive rules allows perimeter players to dominate more than they otherwise would.

That's actually common knowledge.. Everyone knows that.. Nothing in this series is surprising to me, especially since Lebron isn't getting double-teamed and gets to play 1-on-1 all alone on the strongside.

[Hey Yo]

Danny Ainge wasn't a great defender? :biggums:
And he sure as hell had twice the brains Iggy and Green has.

Dude was a pest. Rich man's Delly.
While this is true earlier in his career, just not at age 34 which he was at the time of that Finals.

[ralph_i_el]

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/6-05-2015/P5Zone.gif


OldSchool, I have a question.. I would've made a new thread about it, but I didn't want the question to be misinterpreted and get me banned for repeat topic.

Are the strongside clearouts that David Blatt is doing completely new, as in, it wasn't even done EVEN LAST YEAR?..

In all the GIFs I did and highlights of last seasons plays, I never saw that type of clearout, where 4 offensive players are sent to the far weakside, BEHIND the far side of the paint, so the remaining player can go 1-on-1 all alone on the strongside.

Like, isn't this something new that's being done for the first time in these very playoffs - isn't this a new way to exploit the spacing and control pace that Blatt has discovered?
.

:facepalm act like they didn't do that CONSTANTLY in the 90's and the first half of the 00's

[ralph_i_el]

This is all explained away by him not facing double teams..

Also, Blatt clears out the strongside so Lebron is all alone to go 1-on-1... All help defenders are far away on the weakside... It's well-documented - even NBA TV and Grantland have talked about how Lebron enjoys "weakside spacing" as they call it.

The weakside spacing has been around for a few years, but the strongside clearouts are actually totally new - the strongside clearouts are when all 4 help defenders are on the far weakside and far away from the 1-on-1 action on the strongside.. The Cavs have basically invented it in these playoffs - it's a new way to exploit the spacing that more teams will adopt going forward.



Oh, so Lebron's misses are on purpose?... That's your excuse for his horrible efficiency?.. LOL...

Btw, I've always told you that when the #1 option is gunning, the team's offensive rebounding rate will be higher... Next time, just take my word for it - that way you won't have to wait until you see it for yourself... :rolleyes:



^^^^^^ Oxymoron.. Cavs can't space the floor AND be playing a 90's style..

Again, the offense they're currently employing is totally new to the NBA - i'm talking about when they clear out the strongside and put 4 offensive players on the far weakside - this is totally new - no team was doing that even last year - this is a new way to exploit today's spacing that more teams will adopt going forward.
.


1. I said they "punted" on spacing the floor which means they aren't spacing it because they don't have the personnel.

2. You know as well as I do that those clearouts were commonplace before they got rid of illegal D.

3. IDK why the Warriors won't double LeBron. Seems like a fail strategy to me.

I found a reddit post from two years ago attributing the clear out iso strategy to none other than MJ...

or this...
In 1947--yeah, we're going way back--the NBA made zone defenses illegal. In 1966 and 1981, these rules were clarified to effectively outlaw anything that deviated from strict man-to-man defense. In most scenarios, a defender had to be either guarding his man or double-teaming the ball. As a result, teams with a talented 1-on-1 player could simply clear out one side of the floor and let that player try to beat his man for easy baskets (this is called an isolation). If the defender couldn't hold his own, there was only so much his team could do to help.

Then, things changed. In 2001, the NBA eliminated its illegal defense rules and adopted the less restrictive defensive three-seconds rule, which remains in place today [3]. Teams could now integrate zone-style concepts into their defense in order to stop isolations

Which makes sense, because when MJ was winning titles in the mid 90's the NBA was constantly playing slower, even though teams weren't wearing out the shot clock searching for 3's like in todays game


also, there's a huge difference between a defender who is in the paint defending an offensive player who is in the paint while MJ iso's, and a defender who is on the edge of the paint but is free to drop off his man completely if the ISO creates penetration. In many of the .gif's you post, the "paint camping" defenders aren't even looking at MJ when he scores because they're too busying guarding offensive players close to the basket.

[zoom17]

Jeff needs 3ball.

[Roundball_Rock]

If being GOAT is all about scoring then Wilt is the clear GOAT. :bowdown:

[warriorfan]

If being GOAT is all about scoring then Wilt is the clear GOAT. :bowdown:

Not after pace adjustment.

[Living Being]

[COLOR="red"]
http://www.gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/bc4b2f6a384a3b07a1291fa3e7495bec.gif


Bulls players did well on that play pushing Barkley and Chambers out of the way.

That said, MJ > LeBron anyways.

[3ball]

don't act like they didn't do strongside clear outs CONSTANTLY in the 90's and the first half of the 00's


In previous eras, teams virtually NEVER put 4 offensive players BEHIND the far side of the paint on the weakside, so the remaining player could go 1-on-1 all alone on the strongside..

This NEVER happened in previous eras, and you can't show me one time when it did.. Don't assume stuff just because you didn't watch back then.





also, there's a huge difference between a defender who is in the paint defending an offensive player, and a defender who is on the edge of the paint but is free to drop off his man completely if the ISO creates penetration.


The defenders on the edge of the paint have a guy they are guarding too..

They ALSO have to pay attention to their man, but they are on the weakside and therefore helping from much further away than defenders in prior eras who were on the strongside.

And again, not only are the Warrior help defenders on the weakside, but they are on the FAR weakside, BEHIND the far side of the paint.. Whereas, MJ's help defender were on the strongside, and therefore much closer.

[ralph_i_el]

These rule changes, though nearly unanimously adopted by the league, are not meeting with unanimous agreement among league followers, especially the elimination of the illegal defense rules. Players who have made their living beating defenders off one-on-one sets are particularly fearful that their impact will be reduced with zones allowed. With no increase in the shot clock, there is fear that offenses will be forced into a lot of rushed shots at the end of the clock.

[QUOTE=Bill Simmons]The new wave of coaches made defenses sophisticated enough by 1981 that the league created an

[3ball]

article about the removal of illegal defense from 2001


that stuff is very outdated and wrong.. the fact that you invoke stuff like that cements your lack of ability to converse on these topics.

today's player faces less strongside defenders due to weakside spacing - that's the LATEST cutting edge understanding about the game that we have - this is from NBA TV and Grantland.
.

[ralph_i_el]

that stuff is very outdated and wrong.. the fact that you invoke stuff like that cements your lack of ability to converse on these topics.

today's player faces less strongside defenders due to weakside spacing - that's the LATEST cutting edge understanding about the game that we have - this is from NBA TV and Grantland.
.

illegal D helped 1-on-1 and 2-on-2 play

when they got rid of it, it hurt those styles.

these are facts.

[jongib369]

But neither of them are GOAT :confusedshrug:

:lol

[Shih508]

MJ's team actually won the Finals

Jordan is simply the better player, one series average or any series average for that matter is not going to change it at this point. Jordan was better at getting to the rim, he had better handles, mid-range, post game, on and off-ball defense, transition defense, dunking ability...

heck, you could even make the argument that Jordan was the better passer...

people are just living off the hype of Lebron putting up great raw numbers and is actually winning because the other team is even worse at scoring the ball than he is.

There's no reason your team should be winning in the Finals when your best player is putting up 40 points on 40% shooting while missing 20 shots a game. Golden State somehow lost a game on their home floor with Lebron missing 19 out of 23 shots in the 2nd half, let that sink in.

As good as Lebron has been overall in the series, Golden State is losing because their shots simply haven't fallen. They have been terrible from deep and Curry can't seem to handle Matthew Dellavedova.

Wasn't your Godbe a career 40% fg shooter in finals? And I'm damn sure he won a couple chips as supposed to be the MAN on that team.

[NBASTATMAN]

If Lebron was getting 30/12/8, nobody would say he's on MJ's level.

It's the 40 PPG that puts him on MJ's level of game domination - let's compare the stats from MJ's 1993 Finals vs. Lebron's 2015 Finals:

Jordan: 41.0 ppg.... 8.5 rpg.. 6.3 apg.. 50.8% FG
Lebron: 41.0 ppg.. 12.0 rpg.. 8.3 apg.. 40.2% FG


So the question is what would you prefer - 3 more rebounds and 2 more assists... or 10% more efficiency?

I think the answer is obvious.
.
:applause:

[3ball]

illegal D helped 1-on-1 and 2-on-2 play

when they got rid of it, it hurt those styles.

Those are the facts


Those aren't the facts.. Previous eras were not capable of doing isolations where no help defenders were on the strongside or in the paint - meaning all 4 help defenders are on the far weakside, BEHIND the far side of the paint.

This never happened in previous eras, and you can't show me one instance where it occurred, because it never did.

Again, I'll take NBA TV's word for it that today's weakside spacing draws defenders away from the strongside.. I'll also believe my own two eyes that sees it on every single play, plus the many GIFs I've made of the aforementioned type of isolations... Your opinion reflects the sheer denial of what you are watching, coupled with not having seen previous eras play.

Surely you're aware that I've made many, many GIFs of the exact type of isolations I described earlier - so your 15-year old articles and misperceptions of the game mean nothing - it holds zero water compared to the verified, comprehensive proof I put together... Like, it's ridiculous how much proof I have:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=378398
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=377570


Oh wait, I know... why don't you watch like 90 seconds of the game tonight without the blinders on?... I guarantee you'll see Blatt clear out the strongside for Lebron and put the other 4 players behind the far side of the paint on the weakside.. This will leave the strongside and paint with zero help defenders, allowing Lebron to run roughshod (if you consider 32.5 FG% on isolations running roughshod).
.