All You Youngens That are Amazed by Bron Bron's playoff run this year...

[Bless Mathews]

Mj did it every year.

And then some.

[Fudge]

Shut the **** up, Bless.

[IncarceratedBob]

When MJ had a team this bad he didn't win rings. MJs rookie year was my senior year of high school

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Nope. Mj was 1-9 and 0-3 in the first round without Pippen. A LeBron James suffering from 5 injuries is leading an even worse cast to a 2-1 lead in the NBA Finals against one of the most stacked teams of all-time averaging 41/12/8.

[Bless Mathews]

Shut the **** up, Bless.


We are typing slob.

[Fudge]

Fucc ass niqqa don't want none b

[LikeABosh]

1-9

[Solefade]

uhh MJ never did this with this type of team lmao

[Bless Mathews]

Nope. Mj was 1-9 and 0-3 in the first round without Pippen. A LeBron James suffering from 5 injuries because of his huh use is leading an even worse cast to a 2-1 lead in the NBA Finals against one of the most stacked teams of all-time averaging 41/12/8.

You gonna really type about teams and Bron Bron in the same poast bruh?

Come On. You smarter than that.

Basketball is about match ups.


The cavs need better defense than offense against this golden state team.

Delly and Tt FAR FAR better at d than kyrie and love.

With no other offensive threats , why WOULDNT he put up those numbers?


My lord bruh. Get some bball knowledge.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

You gonna really type about teams and Bron Bron in the same poast bruh?

Come On. You smarter than that.

Basketball is about match ups.


The cavs need better defense than offense against this squad.

Delly and Tt FAR FAR better at d than kyrie and love.

With no other offensive threats , why WOULDNT he put up those numbers?


My lord bruh. Get some bball knowledge.

Explain 1-9.

[kamil]

Shut the **** up, Bless.

LOL, so bitter.

[Bless Mathews]

Explain 1-9.


Don't deflect.

Follow the conversation bruh.

[oh the horror]

Explain 1-9.


Explain 2/5 then. He had some great teammates and was still getting bounced out.



But apparently this year you cats have all the excuses covered. If he loses (bron) it's because his team isn't good enough. But if they win its SOLELY because of him out there and his teammates are only playing well because of him.


So they take the blame and he gets the glory.



You and your pals on this board are so full of shit that it's coming out of your ears

[kamil]

Would be 1/5 if it werent for a miracle 3 pointer from Ray Allen...

[IncarceratedBob]

Explain 2/5 then. He had some great teammates and was still getting bounced out.



But apparently this year you cats have all the excuses covered. If he loses (bron) it's because his team isn't good enough. But if they win its SOLELY because of him out there and his teammates are only playing well because of him.


So they take the blame and he gets the glory.



You and your pals on this board are so full of shit that it's coming out of your ears
Laker fans are so defensive it's hilarious

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Don't deflect.

Follow the conversation bruh.
I'm not deflecting. Why did Jordan go 1-9 if he was so good?

[SilkkTheShocker]

OP shines shoes at the airport for a living.

Seriously.

When he gets done eating his Cinnabon for lunch, he will break down in the next thread how big of a f.aggot he is.

[Ne 1]

uhh MJ never did this with this type of team lmao

Well there's no doubt, LeBron has had a great all around Westbrook-esque series so far despite the poor efficiency and it's pretty much a one man wrecking crew on offense, but you can't neglect the fact though that basketball is played on both ends of the floor, defense is half of the game after all and you can't act like the Cavs have some below average, run-of-the-mill role players when Tristan Thompson is playing like Dennis Rodman and Delly is playing like Sidney Moncrief. Mozgov is playing like an elite rim protector right now, looking like Dikembe Mutombo in the post and Tristan Thompson might be the best offensive rebounder in the NBA, which is a huge key giving the Cavs so many second chance points. Shumpert is also a pretty good defender on the perimeter. You can't neglect that the Cavs defense have held the Warriors to 39 and 40% shooting respectively in the games they won after 48% in regular season and have made the league MVP look so mediocre. The Warriors averaged 110 PPG in the regular season, held to 97 PPG (despite games 2 and 3 going to OT) in the Finals by the Cavs defense. Smith, Shumpert, James Jones, and Delly are all very good 3P shooters also. This team is actually suited very well for a high usage ball dominant/high volume shooting star player.

Thompsons offensive rebounding has actually helped make up for the LeBron's shooting woes. He keeps buying possession after possession, which not only creates second chance points for the Cavs, but huge momentum shifts as well. The Cavs are getting more shot opportunities from offensive rebounds basically negating many of their misses.

So yes, the Cavs outside of LeBron aren't big name players, but they're playing big time and everyone knows their role. They're making big plays and are shutting down the Warriors with their feisty, elite defense. Their impact is comparable to big name players. For good measure, in comparison to this era, Delly is playing defense like Tony Allen. The way Mozgov is playing you would think he's the best center in the league, locking down that paint, basically having similar impact as Demarcus Cousins. Thompson is playing like Joakim Noah. What would everyone be saying if the Cavs had LeBron, Noah, Cousins, and Allen? Along with one of the leagues best 6th men, former 6th man of the year in JR Smith.

[Bless Mathews]

I'm not deflecting. Why did Jordan go 1-9 if he was so good?

I honestly don't get 1-9

If anyone puts 2 years when he played on the Wizards for simply promotional reasons, at the end of his career, has the iq of a 3 year old and makes paper clips for a living.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

I honestly don't get 1-9

If anyone puts 2 years when he played on the Wizards for simply promotional reasons, at the end of his career, has the iq of a 3 year old and makes paper clips for a living.
1-9 is his record in his 1st 10 playoff games. Before Scottie taught him how to win.

[derb2k2]

The Cavs minus Lebron are all sorts of terrible. How'd they make it so far? Lebron, ofcourse. I give LBJ mad props because he's carrying this team like I've never seen anyone else carry a team. He makes his teammates better, unlike Kobrick.

[Ne 1]

I honestly don't get 1-9

If anyone puts 2 years when he played on the Wizards for simply promotional reasons, at the end of his career, has the iq of a 3 year old and makes paper clips for a living.

If you put 1-9 into context, it's pretty meaningless. His first series he lost 1-3 as rookie as the 7th seed against the 2nd seed Bucks and the next two series the Bulls were swept 0-3 by the heavily favored '86/'87 Celtics, arguably the greatest team in NBA history. Realistically, expecting the Bulls to beat the Celtics in '86 or '87, even in a single game is really showing a lack of understanding.

[Ne 1]

1-9 is his record in his 1st 10 playoff games. Before Scottie taught him how to win.

Jordan took the Bulls to the ECF before Pippen was even close to what he'd become. When Pippen became an All-Star and played like it in the playoffs, the Bulls became champions. Jordan never lost a playoff series with Home court advantage, he never lost a Finals. Once he had enough talent to win around him, he never lost. These are things that matter more than a 1-9 playoff record in his first three seasons with little help as the underdog.

[Bless Mathews]

1-9 is his record in his 1st 10 playoff games. Before Scottie taught him how to win.


Hahahhahahahahahha

Bro. You are retarded.


Straight up.


Dropping 63 against top 10 goat on the road as a rookie??

Taking a lottery team to playoffs? With scrubs.

Playing in the STACKED 80's east?


You are dumb bro.

Straight up.

I don't want you reppin my Seahawks no more either Vancouver boy.

We don't like idiots.

[3ball]

I'm not deflecting. Why did Jordan go 1-9 if he was so good?


Because he didn't have an all-star when he went 1-9.

Otoh, when Lebron won his first playoff series in 2006, he had 2-time All-Star Zydrunas Illaguaskas (2003, 2005).

Also, most of MJ's losses came to the 1986 and 1987 Celtics, who were vastly better than any team Lebron has ever faced in the playoffs.

[Keno]

these games are ending in like 90-87. the years jordan did it 140-138. not even remotely impressed at jordans inflated statlines.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Hahahhahahahahahha

Bro. You are retarded.


Straight up.


Dropping 63 against top 10 goat on the road as a rookie??

Taking a lottery team to playoffs? With scrubs.

Playing in the STACKED 80's east?


You are dumb bro.

Straight up.

I don't want you reppin my Seahawks no more either Vancouver boy.

We don't like idiots.

He didn't score 63 in his rookie year. That was hist 2nd year. And LeBron has taken scrubs to the finals. and is 9/9 in the first round. MJ is 0/3 without Pippen.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Because he didn't have an all-star when he went 1-9.

Whereas when Lebron won his first playoff series in 2006, he had 2-time All-Star Zydrunas Illaguaskas (2003, 2005).. :confusedshrug:

Also, most of MJ's losses came to the 1986 and 1987 Celtics, who were vastly better than any team Lebron has ever faced in the playoffs.. :confusedshrug:
George Gervin. If big Z counts as an all-star in 2006 when he wasn't an all-star that year then so does 11-time all star George Gervin.

[Keno]

Nope. Mj was 1-9 and 0-3 in the first round without Pippen. A LeBron James suffering from 5 injuries is leading an even worse cast to a 2-1 lead in the NBA Finals against one of the most stacked teams of all-time averaging 41/12/8.

damn, just reading that. :eek: goat.

[Bless Mathews]

If you put 1-9 into context, it's pretty meaningless. His first series he lost 1-3 as rookie as the 7th seed against the 2nd seed Bucks and the next two series the Bulls were swept 0-3 by the heavily favored '86/'87 Celtics, arguably the greatest team in NBA history. Realistically, expecting the Bulls to beat the Celtics in '86 or '87, even in a single game is really showing a lack of understanding.


Slayed.


That was a lottery team a year before. Smh. Smh.

[3ball]

George Gervin. If big Z counts as an all-star in 2006 when he wasn't an all-star that year then so does 11-time all star George Gervin.
Fair enough..

But how much education do you have?

No seriously, I'm only asking because we all know most of MJ's losses in the 1-9 were against the 1986 and 1987 Celtics.. Do you seriously consider the Gilbert Arenas' Washington Wizards to be comparable to Bird's Celtics?..

That would be a 3rd grade analyis... Now if you're in the 3rd grade, I apologize... Carry on..

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Fair enough..

But how much education do you have?

No seriously, I'm only asking because we all know most of MJ's losses in the 1-9 were against the 1986 and 1987 Celtics.. Do you seriously consider the Gilbert Arenas' Washington Wizards to be comparable to Bird's Celtics?..

That would be a 3rd grade analyis... Now if you're in the 3rd grade, I apologize... Carry on..

You realize that leading your team to better regular season records would prevent you from playing stacked teams in the first round, right?

[Kingwillball]

Mj did it every year.

And then some.

Yeah I watched Jordan and he never did this nor was ever short handed or underdog.

[ArbitraryWater]

Explain 2/5 then. He had some great teammates and was still getting bounced out.



But apparently this year you cats have all the excuses covered. If he loses (bron) it's because his team isn't good enough. But if they win its SOLELY because of him out there and his teammates are only playing well because of him.


So they take the blame and he gets the glory.



You and your pals on this board are so full of shit that it's coming out of your ears

:wtf:

okay, explain it to me genius.... if they lose (their literally still an underdog, while leading, at home), you wanna pass blame on Bron? :oldlol: You wanna disregard the injuries, Love, AND Kyrie?

And if they win you wouldn't absolutely see this as one of the GOAT Finals performances (sorry breh, Kobe isnt close to this)? You guys got shit coming outta yo ears with that logic..

[Jameerthefear]

i'm waaayyy up i feel BLESSED
fOnky as fvck

[3ball]

George Gervin. If big Z counts as an all-star in 2006 when he wasn't an all-star that year then so does 11-time all star George Gervin.


Actually, I take that back - Gervin only played 11 minutes in the entire series against the Celtics in 1986.

So again, when Lebron won his first playoff series in 2006, he had 2-time All-star Zydrunas Illgauskas (2003, 2005), while MJ had zero all-stars when he went 1-9.

Of course, as soon as MJ got just 1 all-star (Pippen), he went 6/6... That's he needed (1 all-star) to go 6/6... Whereas Lebron had 2 all-stars in Miami was only 2/4.

[BBallZen83]

3ball, your back? Hope you learned your lesson brosef.

[MP.Trey]

Actually, I take that back - Gervin only played 11 minutes in the entire series against the Celtics in 1986.

So again, when Lebron won his first playoff series in 2006, he had 2-time All-star Zydrunas Illgauskas (2003, 2005), while MJ had zero all-stars when he went 1-9.

Of course, as soon as MJ got just 1 all-star (Pippen), he went 6/6... That's he needed (1 all-star) to go 6/6.. . Whereas Lebron had 2 all-stars in Miami was only 2/4.
B.J. Armstrong, Horace Grant, Dennis Rodman, c'mon bro, I know you don't even watch basketball but at least get your facts straight on the teams you claim to have actually watched.

[32jazz]

Actually, I take that back - Gervin only played 11 minutes in the entire series against the Celtics in 1986.

So again, when Lebron won his first playoff series in 2006, he had 2-time All-star Zydrunas Illgauskas (2003, 2005), while MJ had zero all-stars when he went 1-9.

Of course, as soon as MJ got just 1 all-star (Pippen), he went 6/6... That's he needed (1 all-star) to go 6/6... Whereas Lebron had 2 all-stars in Miami was only 2/4.

So you're gonna pretend Dennis Rodman wasn't an All star , 2 time dpoy, 7 time rebounding champ(3 with Bulls) , 1st ballot hall of famer,etc................?

So MJ carried 2 first ballot hall of famers ? One (Rodman) who Phil Jackson says deserved the 1996 Finals MVP?

[Leftimage]

Mj did it every year.

And then some.

lol... this graphic says otherwise. Gap between #1 Lebron and #2 Jordan is greater than gap between Jordan and #15 Kidd.

In other words... this is some NEXT-LEVEL shit. Shit you should be fully appreciating instead of grumpy-old manning Lebron's achievements.

http://si.wsj.net/public/resources/images/PJ-CC189D_NBA_16U_20150610175727.jpg

[Bless Mathews]

He didn't score 63 in his rookie year. That was hist 2nd year. And LeBron has taken scrubs to the finals. and is 9/9 in the first round. MJ is 0/3 without Pippen.


Once again, I refuse to try and have an intelligent conversation with someone that tries to bring up teammates and Bron Bron in same discussion



Straight retOarded bruh.


Lebron James will go down as the biggest team jumping/ ring chaser bitch in the HISTORY of sports.

How old are you ?

[Bless Mathews]

lol... this graphic says otherwise. Gap between #1 Lebron and #2 Jordan is greater than gap between Jordan and #15 Kidd.

In other words... this is some NEXT-LEVEL shit. Shit you should be fully appreciating instead of grumpy-old manning Lebron's achievements.

http://si.wsj.net/public/resources/images/PJ-CC189D_NBA_16U_20150610175727.jpg

Dumbest graphic ever.

Smh.

You notice how there is no star next to Bron Bron. And there's one best to mj.


:facepalm

[Leftimage]

Dumbest graphic ever.

Smh.

You notice how there is no star next to Bron Bron. And there's one best to mj.

:facepalm

:biggums:

[3ball]

:biggums:
Notice how MJ has 4 of the top 10, while Lebron only has 1..

The one top 10 spot Lebron has is occurring because he's not getting double-teamed (which virtually never happened in a series for MJ).

Also, Blatt is clearing out the strongside for him every play, in a way that's actually never been done before, from what I can tell...

Blatt is putting all 4 help defenders BEHIND the far side of the paint - I've never seen this ever done before.. It puts all 4 help defenders furthest away from the strongside - the tactic takes max advantage of the spacing (but makes the game more gimmicky).

[greymatter]

Because he didn't have an all-star when he went 1-9.

Otoh, when Lebron won his first playoff series in 2006, he had 2-time All-Star Zydrunas Illaguaskas (2003, 2005).

@ ~17/8 and @44 and 47 fg%.

Back in the East's weakest era of centers all time where the other AS center was Ben Wallace. Z wouldn't have even been an all NBA 7th teamer in the early 90s. Brilliant example. Non-AS 91-92 version of Horace Grant shits all over any version of Z.



Also, most of MJ's losses came to the 1986 and 1987 Celtics, who were vastly better than any team Lebron has ever faced in the playoffs.

The current GS team won 67 games by over 10ppg in a conference with 4 other 55+ win teams. This GS team is one of the 6 most dominant regular season teams in NBA history. This GS team is clearly better than any team Jordan has ever faced in the Finals. Must suck knowing that if Lebron wins, that he'll have accomplished something Jordan never remotely came close to doing -winning a playoff series as a huge underdog.

Completely understandable that Jordan-tards will all be on suicide watch if the Cavs go up 3-1 tonight. Just wish they'd take all the Kobe-tards with them.

[LA_Showtime]

6/15. 6/17 if you count the two years where he quit to play baseball.

Jordan was an amazing player - considered by many to be the best of all-time. But to ignore what James is doing right now because of your loyalties to Jordan is doing yourself a disservice. Love or hate James, what he's doing right now is special.

[3ball]

But to ignore what James is doing right now because of your loyalties to Jordan is doing yourself a disservice. Love or hate James, what he's doing right now is special.


I prefer MJ's 41/9/6 on 51% over Lebron's 41/12/8 on 41%.

MJ would've gotten had a higher scoring average, but his supporting cast was far better than Lebron's currently is - MJ had way more help - yet despite that superior supporting cast and MJ's vastly superior efficiency, the Bulls series against the Suns was dead even: both teams averaged exactly 106.7 PPG and 113.0 ORtg..

The fact that MJ had a vastly superior supporting cast and barely beat the Suns shows how much better the Suns were than the Warriors.. Obviously, MJ's superior supporting cast would destroy these Warriors, but it was dead even with the Suns, proving the Suns superiority.

Btw, MJ won 6 rings in 15 years - that includes his Wizards years, the baseball comeback year and injury year.. If you take out the Wizards years it's 6/13... Take out the baseball comeback and injury years and it's 6/11... But other than Russell, 6/15 championship percentage is already GOAT.
.

[sd3035]

http://img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090305235951/goodhockey/images/2/23/Retard_at_a_keyboard.gifWhen MJ had a team this bad he didn't win rings. MJs rookie year was my senior year of high school


:lol

[Sarcastic]

Explain 1-9.


Same reason why Lebron missed the playoffs his first two years.

[TheReal Kendall]

Fact still remain: MJ >>>>> Lebron

[Bless Mathews]

6/15. 6/17 if you count the two years where he quit to play baseball.

Jordan was an amazing player - considered by many to be the best of all-time. But to ignore what James is doing right now because of your loyalties to Jordan is doing yourself a disservice. Love or hate James, what he's doing right now is special.

This poast shows how ignorant you are.

You are really counting against him when he wasn't even playing in the damn league??

And when he played on the Wizards as an old man for advertising???

Jordan is 6-11. 11 full seasons as a bull he went 6-6.

You kids are dumb. No wonder why everything is going to shit.

Seriously. RetOarded.

I'm typing he is doing good this year.

What a "goat" player SHOULD and is EXPECTED to do.

Puts in perspective how much and big of a pu$$y he has been most of his career.

[LoneyROY7]

Yo n*gga, I got LaVine's old gym shorts.

Old homie from Bothell came through late.

Hit me with the paypal and I'll send that sh*t stat B.

[Bless Mathews]

Yo n*gga, I got LaVine's old gym shorts.

Old homie from Bothell came through late.

Hit me with the paypal and I'll send that sh*t stat B.


You got the hookup from young will??

Damn. I thought I was the only one.

Hit up cocaine 80's. He'll buy em.

I already sold him 3 pair of socks, a jock strap and 2 practice jerseys.

[Roundball_Rock]

When was Jordan doing this in half the ECF or Finals with scrubs against 60 and 67 win teams? When he had weak teams (well, he did have a 23 ppg SF as a second option for two of those years, something LeBron does not have) he could not get past 0.500 and was 1-9 in the first round.

[Ne 1]

Same reason why Lebron missed the playoffs his first two years.
Ether.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Ether.

Good god...you kobe/mj stans are so fking dumb :bowdown:

That was exactly the point i have been trying to make: It's a team sport. Sometimes your team sucks/isn't good enough and you lose.

[warriorfan]

I prefer MJ's 41/9/6 on 51% over Lebron's 41/12/8 on 41%.

MJ would've gotten had a higher scoring average, but his supporting cast was far better than Lebron's currently is - MJ had way more help - yet despite that superior supporting cast and MJ's vastly superior efficiency, the Bulls series against the Suns was dead even: both teams averaged exactly 106.7 PPG and 113.0 ORtg..

The fact that MJ had a vastly superior supporting cast and barely beat the Suns shows how much better the Suns were than the Warriors.. Obviously, MJ's superior supporting cast would destroy these Warriors, but it was dead even with the Suns, proving the Suns superiority.

Btw, MJ won 6 rings in 15 years - that includes his Wizards years, the baseball comeback year and injury year.. If you take out the Wizards years it's 6/13... Take out the baseball comeback and injury years and it's 6/11... But other than Russell, 6/15 championship percentage is already GOAT.
.

http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/kevin-garnett-reaction.gif

[ralph_i_el]

MJ never won anything with a squad this weak

[Roundball_Rock]

Same reason why Lebron missed the playoffs his first two years.

Interesting comparison.

LeBron came straight out of high school to join a 17 win team. In his first year they improved to 35 wins (+18) and in his second they won 42 games. 35 and 42 wins were not enough to make the playoffs in the East those years.

Jordan came out of the best college program after two years to join a 27 win team. In his first year they improved to 38 wins (+11) and in his second year they went 9-9 with MJ and 30-52 overall. 38 wins was enough to get the #7 seed in 85' and 30 wins enough to make the playoffs in 86'. (Jordan's third year was more of the same: 40-42 and another first round sweep).

So LeBron out of high school had a greater impact than the GOAT out of UNC? :eek:

[3ball]

misinformation itt

[3ball]

So LeBron out of high school had a greater impact than the GOAT out of UNC? :eek:


Actually, Lebron had a better supporting cast - Zydrunas Illgauskas was an All-Star in 2005, yet Lebron missed the playoffs that year (Zydrunas was also an All-Star in 2003).

So when Lebron won his first playoff game in 2006, he did so with a 2-time All-Star (Zydrunas in 2003 and 2005).

Otoh, MJ didn't have any All-Stars helping him in the playoffs when he came in the league and went 1-9 versus Bird's 1986 and 1987 Celtics...

But the moment MJ got just 1 All-Star, he went 6/6... Whereas Lebron missed the playoffs despite having an all-star, and only went 2/4 in Miami with two all-stars..
.

[Roundball_Rock]

Second option comparison

04' Big Z: 15/8/1 on 48%
05' Big Z: 17/9/1 on 47%

85' Woolridge: 23/6/2 on 55%
86' Woolridge: 21/5/3 on 50%

Career year for Z: 17/8/2
Career year for W: 25/7/2

The fact is MJ had a high-scoring SF as his second option in his first two years, albeit not a top 20-25 all-time player at SF. The results were 38-44 and 1-3 in the playoffs and 9-9 and 0-3 in the playoffs. When did LeBron ever have a 20+ ppg second option prior to 2011?

Jordan's #3 option in 85' and 86' was a 16 ppg scorer, similar to Z. So he had a 21-23 ppg #2 option and a 16 ppg #3 option.

[hateraid]

Explain 2/5 then. He had some great teammates and was still getting bounced out.



But apparently this year you cats have all the excuses covered. If he loses (bron) it's because his team isn't good enough. But if they win its SOLELY because of him out there and his teammates are only playing well because of him.


So they take the blame and he gets the glory.



You and your pals on this board are so full of shit that it's coming out of your ears
You sorely underrate the Spurs and overrate the first Cavs team
Regardless he deserves the glory and gets a free pass for the loss. This by far is the most lopsided championship EVER. It's like watching the Replacements. They have no business winning. The 2 wins alone is a win in itself. Stop the hating and just enjoy what is going on in the moment rather than reaching for any argument to knock Lebron down a peg. I am not a Lebron fan and I can't help but be in awe of the moment. I have $1500 riding on the Warriors yet can't help but feel good for Lebron

[ralph_i_el]

I don't want you reppin my Seahawks no more either Vancouver boy.

We don't like idiots.

Self hating Seahawks fans?

Because you guys have the dumbest bandwagon ignorant asshole fans accross this entire country.

[LikeABosh]

Actually, Lebron had a better supporting cast - Zydrunas Illgauskas was an All-Star in 2005, yet Lebron missed the playoffs that year (Zydrunas was also an All-Star in 2003).

So when Lebron won his first playoff game in 2006, he did so with a 2-time All-Star (Zydrunas in 2003 and 2005).

Otoh, MJ didn't have any All-Stars helping him in the playoffs when he came in the league and went 1-9 versus Bird's 1986 and 1987 Celtics...

But the moment MJ got just 1 All-Star, he went 6/6... Whereas Lebron missed the playoffs despite having an all-star, and only went 2/4 in Miami with two all-stars..
.
reported for spam. Literally copy and pasting your same shitty comments in different threads.

[ralph_i_el]

This poast shows how ignorant you are.

You are really counting against him when he wasn't even playing in the damn league??

And when he played on the Wizards as an old man for advertising???

Jordan is 6-11. 11 full seasons as a bull he went 6-6.

You kids are dumb. No wonder why everything is going to shit.

Seriously. RetOarded.

I'm typing he is doing good this year.

What a "goat" player SHOULD and is EXPECTED to do.

Puts in perspective how much and big of a pu$$y he has been most of his career.

he got to take off two entire seasons of rest :facepalm look how much better BronBron was after TWO WEEKS of rest earlier this season.

When you quit basketball, you don't get to write off the season. Quitting when you could win is just about the biggest beta move you can pull.

[Bless Mathews]

MJ never won anything with a squad this weak


You kids don't get match ups.

What delly and Thompson brings to the cavs is more important against an offensive juggernaut like the Warriors.



:facepalm

[Bless Mathews]

he got to take off two entire seasons of rest :facepalm look how much better BronBron was after TWO WEEKS of rest earlier this season.

When you quit basketball, you don't get to write off the season. Quitting when you could win is just about the biggest beta move you can pull.


You're an idiot on so many levels.

He wasn't playing in the league. How the fucc can you hold that against him in considering how sussessfull he was.

My lord.

And he quit bball and WAS PLAYING ANOTHER PROFESSIONAL SPORT.


The fucc is wrong with you niggah?

For real. :facepalm

[3ball]

Second option comparison

04' Big Z: 15/8/1 on 48%
05' Big Z: 17/9/1 on 47%

85' Woolridge: 23/6/2 on 55%
86' Woolridge: 21/5/3 on 50%

Career year for Z: 17/8/2
Career year for W: 25/7/2


Z was one of the best players in the league, while Woolridge was nowhere near - maybe that's a testament to the superiority of the 80's.. Who knows... But the point remains that Lebron played with one of the best players in the league, while MJ did not.

Lebron also had All-NBA first team defender Larry Hughes, who had been the NBA steals leader..

Bottom line is that Lebron had one of the best players in the league (all-star Zydrunas) when he missed the playoffs and won his first playoff game, wheras MJ didn't when he was going 1-9 vs. the Celtics..

But the moment MJ got just 1 all-star, he went 6/6... Whereas, Lebron missed the playoffs despite having an all-star, and only went 2/4 with two all-stars in Miami.

[DMAVS41]

Actually, Lebron had a better supporting cast - Zydrunas Illgauskas was an All-Star in 2005, yet Lebron missed the playoffs that year (Zydrunas was also an All-Star in 2003).

So when Lebron won his first playoff game in 2006, he did so with a 2-time All-Star (Zydrunas in 2003 and 2005).

Otoh, MJ didn't have any All-Stars helping him in the playoffs when he came in the league and went 1-9 versus Bird's 1986 and 1987 Celtics...

But the moment MJ got just 1 All-Star, he went 6/6... Whereas Lebron missed the playoffs despite having an all-star, and only went 2/4 in Miami with two all-stars..
.


Shut the **** up.

Lebron took over a 17 win team out of high school and doubled the wins.

Just stop it.

[DMAVS41]

Z was one of the best players in the league, while Woolridge was nowhere near - maybe that's a testament to the superiority of the 80's.. Who knows... But the point remains that Lebron played with one of the best players in the league, while MJ did not.

Lebron also had All-NBA first team defender Larry Hughes, who had been the NBA steals leader..

Bottom line is that Lebron had one of the best players in the league (all-star Zydrunas) when he missed the playoffs and won his first playoff game, wheras MJ didn't when he was going 1-9 vs. the Celtics..

But the moment MJ got just 1 all-star, he went 6/6... Whereas, Lebron missed the playoffs despite having an all-star, and only went 2/4 with two all-stars in Miami.

Yes...one of the best players in the league led his team to 17 wins. You sir need to take a break from posting.

It's getting really annoying...

[3ball]

Yes...one of the best players in the league led his team to 17 wins. You sir need to take a break from posting.

It's getting really annoying...
Zydrunas Illgauskas was named an all-star in 2003 and 2005.

That means he was voted by coaches as one of the top 24 players in the league - indeed, Lebron missed the playoffs in 2005 despite having a top 24 player as support.. When he won his first playoff game in 2006, he did so with the help of a 2-time All-Star.

MJ never played with a top 24 player, or anything near that during his early playoff career... But once he got just 1 all-star, he went 6/6.. Whereas, Lebron missed the playoffs despite having an all-star, and only went 2/4 with two all-stars in Miami.

[oh the horror]

Shut the **** up.

Lebron took over a 17 win team out of high school and doubled the wins.

Just stop it.





Yes I'm sure an 18 year old alone doubled their wins.



You're hallucinating dude. Sit down before those spins cause you to fall down and hurt yourself.

[DMAVS41]

Zydrunas Illgauskas was named an all-star in 2003 and 2005.

That means he was voted by coaches as one of the top 24 players in the league - indeed, Lebron missed the playoffs in 2005 despite having a top 24 player as support.. When he won his first playoff game in 2006, he did so with the help of a 2-time All-Star.

MJ never played with a top 24 player, or anything near that during his early playoff career... But once he got just 1 all-star, he went 6/6.. Whereas, Lebron missed the playoffs despite having an all-star, and only went 2/4 with two all-stars in Miami.

Dude...Big Z was fully healthy and led his team to 17 wins in the ****ing East the year before Lebron came.

I don't are about the other stuff.

He was not one of the best players in the league. He was a fine player, but you have to stop talking like a moron.

[DMAVS41]

:facepalm

Dude...you called him one of the best players in the league. He wasn't...he never was listed as "one of the best"

Sensible people (not you clearly) thought of him as a quality player, but never an elite type player you are portraying him as.

And again...17 wins the year before without Lebron. Not a good look.

[3ball]

Zydrunas Illgauskas was named an all-star in 2003 and 2005.

That means he was voted by coaches as one of the top 24 players in the league - indeed, Lebron missed the playoffs in 2005 despite having a top 24 player as support.. When he won his first playoff game in 2006, he did so with the help of a 2-time All-Star.

MJ never played with a top 24 player, or anything near that during his early playoff career... But once he got just 1 all-star, he went 6/6.. Whereas, Lebron missed the playoffs despite having an all-star, and only went 2/4 with two all-stars in Miami.




Dude...Big Z was fully healthy and led his team to 17 wins in the ****ing East the year before Lebron came.

He was not one of the best players in the league. He was a fine player, but you have to stop talking like a moron.


Z was a top 24 player in 2003 and 2005 - this is a fact - he was an all-star those years... But he didn't have any all-star support himself, so the 17 wins is expected.. After all, he's not MJ - he can't lead a team with no all-stars to the playoffs.

Otoh, unlike Zydrunas and MJ, Lebron has ALWAYS played with all-star support.. But he missed the playoffs despite having all-star support, which MJ never did.. Lebron also only went 2/4 with two all-stars, while MJ went 6/6 with just one.
.

[DMAVS41]

Z was top 24 player - he was an all-star... But he didn't have any all-star support himself, so the 17 wins is expected.. After all, he's not MJ - he can't lead a team with no all-stars to the playoffs.

Otoh, unlike Zydrunas and MJ, Lebron has ALWAYS played with all-star support.. But unlike MJ, he couldn't lead a team with no all-stars to the playoffs and only went 2/4 with two all-stars, while MJ went 6/6 with just one.

Dude.

He never made an all nba team iirc.

Also, top 24 is not one of the best players in the league. That is merely a game of semantics.

He had a negative RAPM in 03...

Like I said before...GTFO

And please stop talking about MJ with me. I never even mentioned him and don't care about Lebron vs MJ. MJ was clearly the better player at his best.

[Hey Yo]

The 4yrs that LeBron was away from Cleveland, Cavs posted the most losses of any team over those 4yrs.

He comes back and they're in the Finals.

"Things that make ya go hmmmmm"

[3ball]

Also, top 24 is not one of the best players in the league. That is merely a game of semantics.


The facts are what they are - NBA coaches voted Zydrunas as one of the top 24 players in the league, not once, but twice.. So it wasn't a fluke...

If you don't agree, then be mad at the weak era - it was the weak era that allowed Zydrunas to be a top 24 player... I agree that Zydrunas wouldn't sniff the top 50 in the 80's or 90's.

[DMAVS41]

The 4yrs that LeBron was away from Cleveland, Cavs posted the most losses of any team over those 4yrs.

He comes back and they're in the Finals.

"Things that make ya go hmmmmm"

And they won 17 the year before he got there and had averaged probably around 30 wins the 5 years before that.

Big Z (one of the best players in the league)...just didn't have enough help to break 35 wins outside his rookie year.

Why? Why would one of the best players in the league struggle so badly in a shit conference?

[DMAVS41]

The facts are what they are - NBA coaches voted Zydrunas as one of the top 24 players in the league, not once, but twice.. So it wasn't a fluke...

If you don't agree, then be mad at the weak era, an era where Zydrunas could be a top 24 player... I agree that Zydrunas wouldn't sniff the top 50 in the 80's or 90's.

Sorry...those aren't facts. It's a fact that Big Z was voted an all star...it's not a fact that he's a top 24 player because of that.

Sorry you don't know the difference.

Again...I don't speak negative RAPM...come back with something better.

Dude couldn't get over 32 wins outside his rookie year until Lebron got there.

All the facts point to him being nothing more than a good player that could give you like 15/9...

And I actually like Z...thought he was under-rated most of his career. You are just talking total BS.

[3ball]

It's a fact that Big Z was voted an all star...it's not a fact that he's a top 24 player because of that.


The consensus of the NBA's 30 coaches says Zydrunas was a top 24 player in both 2003 and 2005...

I'll take their word over yours.. Who are you?

[DMAVS41]

The consensus of the NBA's 30 coaches says Zydrunas was a top 24 player in both 2003 and 2005... I'll take their word over yours.. Who are you?

That's not an argument.

He led his team to 17 wins and had a negative RAPM...I'll take that combined actually watching the games back then (you clearly didn't) and realize that just being an all-star doesn't make you a top 24 player.

And even if it did...being top 24 does not make you "one of the best players in the league"

You are a clown...I exposed your bullshit....

Take the L...go away....please.

[oh the horror]

The 4yrs that LeBron was away from Cleveland, Cavs posted the most losses of any team over those 4yrs.

He comes back and they're in the Finals.

"Things that make ya go hmmmmm"




Okay okay wtf ?


You're going to sit there and SERIOUSLY ignore the ENTIRE god damn roster change???


They didn't even look that stellar UNTIL the trade that brought in Mozgov, Shump and Smith.


Do you remember how he was playing early on? Or when he took 2 weeks off?



I'm not saying the dude doesn't turn a franchise around but you dudes aren't even going to acknowledge his f*cking tEammates anymore or what? :oldlol:

[Bless Mathews]

That's not an argument.

He led his team to 17 wins and had a negative RAPM...I'll take that combined actually watching the games back then (you clearly didn't) and realize that just being an all-star doesn't make you a top 24 player.

And even if it did...being top 24 does not make you "one of the best players in the league"

You are a clown...I exposed your bullshit....

Take the L...go away....please.

You know more than nba coaches?

Who you coach niggah?

You a googler.

[DMAVS41]

You know more than nba coaches?

Who you coach niggah?

You a googler.

All star is not a coaches vote on the top 24 players. Regardless, yes, I know more than someone calling Big Z one of the best players in the NBA in 2003.

I actually watched games back then unlike most of the teens here...and nobody in the ****ing world would have listed Big Z on a list entitled:

"The best players in the game"

It's honestly stupid to even discuss something so driven by MJ love and Lebron hate.

I just wanted to expose 3ball for being a clown....propping up a Big Z that had a negative RAPM and led his team to 17 wins in a shit conference.

[ShawkFactory]

The consensus of the NBA's 30 coaches says Zydrunas was a top 24 player in both 2003 and 2005...

I'll take their word over yours.. Who are you?
Kyle Korver one of the 24 best players in the NBA?

In fact, that Hawks had 4 of them? :bowdown:

[Hey Yo]

Okay okay wtf ?


You're going to sit there and SERIOUSLY ignore the ENTIRE god damn roster change???


They didn't even look that stellar UNTIL the trade that brought in Mozgov, Shump and Smith.


Do you remember how he was playing early on? Or when he took 2 weeks off?



I'm not saying the dude doesn't turn a franchise around but you dudes aren't even going to acknowledge his f*cking tEammates anymore or what? :oldlol:
I'm referring to the 4yrs he wasn't there.

They had consecutive 4 of the top 5 picks over that 4yr span (w/o LeBron) and never sniffed the playoffs in the so called "worst conference ever"

WITNESS

[Roundball_Rock]

:roll: at calling Z a top 24 player, especially given how weak the center position was when he was selected as an all-star. Brad Miller was a 2x all-star and Okur an all-star during that same period.

It is interesting that under 3ball's logic MJ played with three other top 24 type players during the first three-peat along with the two HOF'ers he had during the second.

[Straight_Ballin]

Lol these bran stans are pathetic. :facepalm Can't accept the fact that Z was a top 24 player because they some how think that negatively reflects on bron somehow.

Stay shook

[ralph_i_el]

The facts are what they are - NBA coaches voted Zydrunas as one of the top 24 players in the league, not once, but twice.. So it wasn't a fluke...

If you don't agree, then be mad at the weak era - it was the weak era that allowed Zydrunas to be a top 24 player... I agree that Zydrunas wouldn't sniff the top 50 in the 80's or 90's.

no you stupid ****. They picked him as one of the best HEALTHY centers in the east. Not one of the best 24 players in the league. There exists a fairly significant difference.

[ralph_i_el]

:roll: at calling Z a top 24 player, especially given how weak the center position was when he was selected as an all-star. Brad Miller was a 2x all-star and Okur an all-star during that same period.

It is interesting that under 3ball's logic MJ played with three other top 24 type players during the first three-peat along with the two HOF'ers he had during the second.
:applause: BUT HE WENT 1-9

[dude77]

Would be 1/5 if it werent for a miracle 3 pointer from Ray Allen...

this .. a missed allen 3 from 1/5 .. lebron is straight up trash .. HUGE game tonight .. chance to put a stranglehold on gs .. you're supposed to be some type of legendary player and he comes up comes up short .. 7-21 tonight

[Bless Mathews]

this .. a missed allen 3 from 1/5 .. lebron is straight up trash .. HUGE game tonight .. chance to put a stranglehold on gs .. you're supposed to be some type of legendary player and he comes up comes up short .. 7-21 tonight

Legendary and or goat level game...


What top 10 goats do.

He is a very talented player, but just don't got that goat gene.

[Chadwin]

MJ (along with Duncan, Dirk, Hakeem, Barry and Wallace) actually won a title as the only all-nba or all-star.

[Lebron23]

MJ (along with Duncan, Dirk, Hakeem, Barry and Wallace) actually won a title as the only all-nba or all-star.


Pippen was better than most All Stars in 1991. And the reason Dallas won an NBA title in 2011 was because of their interior defense. Dirk was averaging 25 ppg on 41 FG% in the NBA Finals.

[andgar923]

Pippen was better than most All Stars in 1991. And the reason Dallas won an NBA title in 2011 was because of their interior defense. Dirk was averaging 25 ppg on 41 FG% in the NBA Finals.

Even then, who made Pip?

Oh sorry... it's not pc to say 'made' because people are sensitive.

Who held his hand and made him a better player?

Without MJ we never remember Pip's name.

[Chadwin]

Pippen was better than most All Stars in 1991. And the reason Dallas won an NBA title in 2011 was because of their interior defense. Dirk was averaging 25 ppg on 41 FG% in the NBA Finals.

Hakeem won it all as the only all-anything (all-star, all-nba, all-nba defensive).

[riseagainst]

Even then, who made Pip?

Oh sorry... it's not pc to say 'made' because people are sensitive.

Who held his hand and made him a better player?

Without MJ we never remember Pip's name.

who cares who made Pippen. Fact is he was a top 10 player in the 1st 3peat, and a top 5 player during the 2nd.
And before you say his stats benefited from playing with MJ. Look at 94. He had an MVP type season, had the best individual season without MJ, and he led the Bulls to 55 wins.

[Lebron23]

Even then, who made Pip?

Oh sorry... it's not pc to say 'made' because people are sensitive.

Who held his hand and made him a better player?

Without MJ we never remember Pip's name.


He was a very good player in College. And even a post prime Pippen became a member of the All Defensive Team with the Blazers.

[andgar923]

who cares who made Pippen. Fact is he was a top 10 player in the 1st 3peat, and a top 5 player during the 2nd.
And before you say his stats benefited from playing with MJ. Look at 94. He had an MVP type season, had the best individual season without MJ, and he led the Bulls to 55 wins.

What do you mean who cares? :facepalm

MJ making Pip into a great player is the ONLY reason you even know his name. If it wasn't for MJ, Pip wouldn't even be in the position to have a season like he did in 94. if it wasn't for MJ the Bulls wouldn't have been in the position to win 50 games.

YES it's due to MJ molding the team into winners. He challenged them in practice, he prepared them for games, he made them mentally tougher, he made them better defenders, he made the Bulls buy into the triangle offense, he showed them about intensity, it was MJ.

MJ took Pip and the rest of the Bulls under his wing and made them work harder, made them more competitive, made them more confident, made them all star players, made them champions.

THAT'S leadership

So yeah, it kinda matters specially when people throw around non-sense terms and stats but don't factor in the entire picture.

[3ball]

Look at 94.. Bulls 55 wins.


The Bulls needed MJ to lead the league in scoring for every championship they won - specifically, they needed him to average 35 PPG and 7 APG in the playoffs thru his first 3-peat, and 36 PPG and 8 APG in the Finals.

So the 1994 Bulls didn't win because they had talented players that could score a lot of points - they won because of the superior strategy, teamwork, and mental ability they accumulated while 3-peating with MJ...

The 1990, 1991, of 1992 Bulls don't win 55 games without MJ - only a team that had developed and accumulated sufficient strategy and mental ability from 3-peating could win 55 with that low level of talent.. Of course, reality came to light in the playoffs, where the Bulls proved to be an ordinary 2nd round exit team, just like say, this year's 55-win Grizzlies..

If MJ took this year's Griz to a 3-peat dynasty, he'd be considered GOAT... But ironically, the Griz show how little talent those 1994 Bulls had, because this year's Griz would never need MJ to average 32 PPG and lead the league in scoring in order to 3-peat... They have way more talent and help and wouldn't need MJ to do that.. But the fact that the Bulls needed so much scoring from MJ shows how little talent they really had and shows that they won 55 games based on the superior strategy, teamwork and mental ability accumulated from 3-peating with MJ.
.

[andgar923]

He was a very good player in College. And even a post prime Pippen became a member of the All Defensive Team with the Blazers.

Uh.... every player coming into the NBA was a very good player in college, that means shit.

And guess why and how he became a better defender?

Gee.. i wonder if playing MJ in practice every day may have had something to do with that? Ya think? :banghead:

Rookie Pip was hardly getting any playing time, he was a weak soft confidence lacking player that would literally go home crying.

He used to get bullied and was soft as shit. There are a ton of talented players coming into the league, but it takes more than just hard work and talent to not just survive, but to become an All Star, let alone a HOF.

That's what MJ did for Pip.

He literally changed his entire mentality, he made him confident, made him mentally stronger, and well... thought him some moves as well.

But some of you will never understand that unless you're in a leadership position or have the keen awareness to understand how a leader has made you better.

[Dbrog]

The facts are what they are - NBA coaches voted Zydrunas as one of the top 24 players in the league, not once, but twice.. So it wasn't a fluke...

If you don't agree, then be mad at the weak era - it was the weak era that allowed Zydrunas to be a top 24 player... I agree that Zydrunas wouldn't sniff the top 50 in the 80's or 90's.

Stop making false claims. He wasn't voted a top24 player. He was voted top 3 centers in the east in 2003 (ahead of Antonio Davis, and Brad Miller). Then he was voted top 3 centers in the east again in 2005 over oldman Zo and horrible record Bosh (see kevin love snubs). How about you add context to your claims? Oh nevermind cause I did that for you and it shows your claims are fraudulent :oldlol:

[DMAVS41]

Stop making false claims. He wasn't voted a top24 player. He was voted top 3 centers in the east in 2003 (ahead of Antonio Davis, and Brad Miller). Then he was voted top 3 centers in the east again in 2005 over oldman Zo and horrible record Bosh (see kevin love snubs). How about you add context to your claims? Oh nevermind cause I did that for you and it shows your claims are fraudulent :oldlol:

He had a negative RAPM and led his team to 17 wins.

Yep...he's "one of the best players in the game"

It's just an argue of semantics. If you extend the "best players" to 50...then yea...sure.

[Dbrog]

Even then, who made Pip?

Oh sorry... it's not pc to say 'made' because people are sensitive.

Who held his hand and made him a better player?

Without MJ we never remember Pip's name.

And without Pip, we wouldn't be talking about MJ in this thread.

[andgar923]

And without Pip, we wouldn't be talking about MJ in this thread.
false

[Roundball_Rock]

He was a very good player in College. And even a post prime Pippen became a member of the All Defensive Team with the Blazers.

He was the #5 pick from an unknown small college...taken ahead of Kevin Johnson, Reggie Miller, Horace Grant, Kenny Smith, and Reggie Lewis to name a few...before he even met Mike. Detroit, which projected him as a future superstar (both the GM and Chuck Daly), tried to trade up to get him (we would probably not even be talking about MJ now if Pip was on Detroit and not on MJ's side in 91' and 92'). Bill Russell and the Kings wanted Pippen. So did other teams. Yet Jordan stans comically try to claim MJ "made" a top 20-25 all-time player. MJ stans act as if people weren't projecting Pippen as a star when he came into the league. This is typical of the pathetic mythology and deceit they promote.

MJ has losing seasons year after year in Charlotte and Washington. He can't "make" a legitimate all-star let alone a top 20-25 all-time player. If he could, MJ, the ultimate competitor would have. Instead MJ basically has losing years every year in the pros, whether D.C., Charlotte or Birmingham or Chicago--except the period in Chicago with Pippen (and Jackson). Pippen and Jackson taught MJ how to win--look at Mike's record without them in four cities and two sports. Losing season after losing season after losing season. In contrast Jackson and Pip have been winners on many teams. Portland in 01' and 02' went from #4 and #5 in the league in winning percentage with Pippen to #18 and #19 without him--and this was past his prime, post-back injury ancient Pippen. That speaks to his impact. 0.500 team without him but elite with him. Winners win and leaders lead wherever they go.

[andgar923]

He was the #5 pick...taken ahead of Kevin Johnson, Reggie Miller, Horace Grant, Kenny Smith, and Reggie Lewis to name a few...before he even met Mike. Detroit, which projected him as a future superstar, tried to trade up to get him (we would probably not even be talking about MJ now if Pip was on Detroit and not on MJ's side in 91' and 92'). Bill Russell and the Kings wanted Pippen. So did other teams. Yet Jordan stans comically try to claim MJ "made" a top 20-25 all-time player.

MJ has losing seasons year after year in Charlotte and Washington. He can't "make" a legitimate all-star let alone a top 20-25 all-time player. If he could, MJ, the ultimate competitor would have. Instead MJ basically has losing years every year in the pros, whether D.C., Charlotte or Birmingham or Chicago--except the period in Chicago with Pippen.

MJ MADE HIM

Stay mad

those are FACTS

Keep ignoring FACTS

[rmt]

What is it about the way Kerr (stupidly) decided to defend Lebron (singlecoverage) that people don't understand is gonna make Lebron score alot. Vs the way he should have been defended from game 1 and definitely after Kyrie went down (double teamed) considering who his team mates then were. Are people forgetting that Tt and Mosgrov (?) Are looking like Wilt Chamberlain because of the way Kerr is now deciding to guard them (with as Charlescalls them midgets)?

fans of Lebron's gotta worry about cracking the top 10 and passing Hakeem before they can start comparing him to MJ

[Heavincent]

MJ MADE HIM

Stay mad

those are FACTS

Keep ignoring FACTS

Only the most delusional Jordan dick rider would say Jordan made Pippen. Seriously dude, get a grip.

[Bless Mathews]

Only the most delusional Jordan dick rider would say Jordan made Pippen. Seriously dude, get a grip.


Lol. Lol.

What did pippen do after Chicago?

At age 33 in Houston

Pippen- 14.5 / 6.5 /5.9

Jordan at age 33

Led the league in scoring 29.6 / 6/4

GTFO.

[andgar923]

Only the most delusional Jordan dick rider would say Jordan made Pippen. Seriously dude, get a grip.

But those are FACTS

Teammates, coaches, reporters, Pip himself, adversaries, experts have all stated this:confusedshrug:

Keep ignoring FACTS

[triangleoffense]

MJ did make Pippen.. I watched his retirement ceremony and people were cheering for MJ louder than Pippen in which he acknowledged again that MJ made him.

Paraphrasing: "The reason I got so good was because I had MJ to play 1v1 against every practice."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MqHpzfI87_I

[ralph_i_el]

What do you mean who cares? :facepalm

MJ making Pip into a great player is the ONLY reason you even know his name. If it wasn't for MJ, Pip wouldn't even be in the position to have a season like he did in 94. if it wasn't for MJ the Bulls wouldn't have been in the position to win 50 games.

YES it's due to MJ molding the team into winners. He challenged them in practice, he prepared them for games, he made them mentally tougher, he made them better defenders, he made the Bulls buy into the triangle offense, he showed them about intensity, it was MJ.

MJ took Pip and the rest of the Bulls under his wing and made them work harder, made them more competitive, made them more confident, made them all star players, made them champions.

THAT'S leadership

So yeah, it kinda matters specially when people throw around non-sense terms and stats but don't factor in the entire picture.

How come he couldn't turn kwame brown or Jerry stackhouse into great players? Or anyone on this Charlotte team he owns?

[andgar923]

How come he couldn't turn kwame brown or Jerry stackhouse into great players? Or anyone on this Charlotte team he owns?

Jerry was already old and had been in the league for some time, throw in some injuries (he was hurt as a Wiz).

He did teach Rip how to work out harder and how to play off the ball, which eventually became his calling card.

Kwame was actually a decent defender for his career.

[Dbrog]

He was the #5 pick from an unknown small college...taken ahead of Kevin Johnson, Reggie Miller, Horace Grant, Kenny Smith, and Reggie Lewis to name a few...before he even met Mike. Detroit, which projected him as a future superstar (both the GM and Chuck Daly), tried to trade up to get him (we would probably not even be talking about MJ now if Pip was on Detroit and not on MJ's side in 91' and 92'). Bill Russell and the Kings wanted Pippen. So did other teams. Yet Jordan stans comically try to claim MJ "made" a top 20-25 all-time player. MJ stans act as if people weren't projecting Pippen as a star when he came into the league. This is typical of the pathetic mythology and deceit they promote.

MJ has losing seasons year after year in Charlotte and Washington. He can't "make" a legitimate all-star let alone a top 20-25 all-time player. If he could, MJ, the ultimate competitor would have. Instead MJ basically has losing years every year in the pros, whether D.C., Charlotte or Birmingham or Chicago--except the period in Chicago with Pippen (and Jackson). Pippen and Jackson taught MJ how to win--look at Mike's record without them in four cities and two sports. Losing season after losing season after losing season. In contrast Jackson and Pip have been winners on many teams. Portland in 01' and 02' went from #4 and #5 in the league in winning percentage with Pippen to #18 and #19 without him--and this was past his prime, post-back injury ancient Pippen. That speaks to his impact. 0.500 team without him but elite with him. Winners win and leaders lead wherever they go.


:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :applause:

[oh the horror]

Saying Pippen somehow made Michael Jordan is hilariously bad comedy.

[Dbrog]

Of course they didn't "make him." However, they were the reason he was able to win those championships. He wouldn't have won them without a person the caliber of Pip or Rodman or Grant. There weren't really that many people better than them in the league back then who weren't already stars on another team.

[bond10]

1-9...

Scottie Pippen and Horace Grant were on the Bulls in 88-90 when the Bulls were being knocked out...
Ended up meeting Bird's stacked Celtics with 4-5 HOFers each year....and then the bad boy Pistons...