In defense of Kobe's 6/24, why isn't Duncan's '05 Game 7 ever brought up?

[SouBeachTalents]

Kobe: 23/15/2 on 6-24 with 4 TO's
Duncan: 25/11/3 on 10-27 with 5 TO's

In the 4th
Kobe: 10 points on 1-4, 4 boards, 1 assist, 1 steal, 1 TO
Duncan: 5 points on 2-5, 2 boards, 2 assists, 3 TO's

Was Duncan honestly any better than Kobe?

[navy]

10/27 is a bad night.

6/24 is :biggums: . Especially if you watched the game. Kobe was playing retarded not just missing shots.

[Jacks3]

Kobe is much more popular. Much more high-profile. And Duncan has always been a sacred cow.

It's just another bullshit double-standard. We've been seeing a lot of those lately.

[riseagainst]

10/27 is a bad night.

6/24 is :biggums: . Especially if you watched the game. Kobe was playing retarded not just missing shots.

Tim Duncan is a paint player. 10/27 for a center is terrible.... Especially when he easily dwarves anyone on the 05 Pistons.

[Velocirap31]

Pretty comparable, sure. 6/24 is worse though.

[navy]

Tim Duncan is a paint player. 10/27 for a center is terrible.... Especially when he easily dwarves anyone on the 05 Pistons.
Ben Wallace ?

[Droid101]

Eh, it's the reason some trolls like to say Manu was FMVP that year. So it's not totally ignored.

[riseagainst]

Ben Wallace ?

ben wallace is 6-9.... 6-10 with shoes?

[Magic 32]

Game 5 was worse.

Horry bailed him out.

[Wade's Rings]

Kobe is much more popular. Much more high-profile. And Duncan has always been a sacred cow.

It's just another bullshit double-standard. We've been seeing a lot of those lately.

Doesn't he get hate from winning in a lockout year? Don't people call his rosters stacked? Is Manu sometimes said to be FMVP? Don't some people call his 2014 Ring a Role Player Ring?

[Wade's Rings]

Game 5 was worse.

Horry bailed him out.

So Fisher bailed Kobe out of Game 3? He iced the Game with an And1 IIRC

[Magic 32]

So Fisher bailed Kobe out of Game 3? He iced the Game with an And1 IIRC

Last 8 minutes of the game + OT:

1-7 from the line.

1-6 FG

Missed a open game winning tip


Horry had 18 points in the 4th and OT (5-6 FG)

[Wade's Rings]

Last 8 minutes of the game:

1-7 from the line.

1-6 FG

Missed a open game winning tip


Horry had 18 points in the 4th and OT (5-6 FG)

I stand corrected. Didn't know he was that awful to end the Game.

[SouBeachTalents]

Last 8 minutes of the game + OT:

1-7 from the line.

1-6 FG

Missed a open game winning tip


In the same timespan Horry had 15 points on 5-5 shooting.

Damn, dude missed 6 free throws in a row

[HOoopCityJones]

Ben Wallace ?

:facepalm

[T_L_P]

Duncan shot like shit, but his play in the second half won the Spurs the game; his passing out of the double team sparked the run that pulled them ahead.

The Pistons' plan before the series was to let anyone but Duncan beat them. He was being hard doubled almost every time he caught the ball by the best defensive player of his era (Wallace) and Rasheed, a hound and another great defender in his prime.

Compare what was said about Duncan and Kobe after their Game 7s:

"His complete game is so sound, so fundamnetal, so unnoticed at times, because if he didn't score, people think, 'Well, he didn't do anything,'" Spurs coach Gregg Popovich said. "But he was incredible and he was the force that got it done for us."

"You follow your leader," Spurs guard Tony Parker said. "Timmy is the leader of the team, and he just carried us tonight."

"He put his team on his shoulders and carried them to a championship," Pistons center Ben Wallace said. "That's what the great players do."

"You could tell when he caught the ball, how much more physical he was, getting in position and bumping and grinding and getting shots and making sure he got toward the rim, so that when people came at him he was in good position to open up a teammate," Popovich said.

"A lot of the shots they made, open shots, came as a result of us having a hard time guarding him," Brown said. "That's why he's such a great player."


Kobe:

[B]"... the more I tried to push, the more it kept getting away from me.

[Droid101]

lol TLP homer glasses on.

Teammate quotes vs. self quotes (plus one Ron Artest quote, so reliable). So stupid.

[T_L_P]

lol TLP homer glasses on.

Teammate quotes vs. self quotes (plus one Ron Artest quote, so reliable). So stupid.

You're right, bro. I probably shouldn't have spent that much time writing the post.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6161Cb6GB3E

That's all that needs to be seen. Duncan played a much better game than Kobe, end of thread. :cheers:

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

In all fairness, Duncan's defense was a lot better than Kobe's.

This is akin to people comparing Bron's postseason run to some of Kobe's worst shooting runs. Yeah they're comparable on the scoring end, but that's where it ends. LeBron is a much better rebounder, defender and passer in these playoffs than most of Kobe's postseason runs where he shot terribly, and didn't do much else to offer a significant impact.

I'm not saying Bron is a much better player than Kobe or whatever, just calling it like I see it.

[eliteballer]

Kobe was in his 14th year and playing on one knee. He didn't have any explosion or lift.

[LAZERUSS]

Duncan routinely had 4th quarter meltdowns against Shaq in their four playoff H2H's from '01-'04.

PJax would allow Duncan to abuse the Laker PF's for three quarters, and then he would move Shaq onto Duncan...and the rest was history.

Here were Duncan's numbers against Shaq in those series:




00-01 5-13

01-02 11-30

02-03 7-23

03-04 12-21

35-87

.402


And, if you remove his '03-04, in which he was hitting pure luck shots...

23-66

.348



Duncan was at his worst in the one series that they won in that span, too. In game five, with Duncan scoring at will against the parade of cannon-fodder that LA had at the PF spot, the Spurs built a 25 point lead late in the third quarter. Then Jackson put Shaq on Duncan, and Timmy completely fell apart. He went 2-6, missing his last four, one of which Shaq blocked, had a TO, and missed a FT. It got so bad he was shaking. In fact, he was waving off passes into the post. The Lakers stormed back, and were an Horry missed three at the buzzer from a shocking comeback.


And who can forget the famous ".4 game." Yes, Duncan hit the go-ahead shot...BUT, talk about pure luck. The Spurs had something like 18 seconds left, and for some reason they inbounded to Duncan. Shaq immediately closed, and Timmy stumbled around for nearly the entire time. Finally, in desperation, and with Shaq's hand right in his face, he blindly threw up a prayer, while falling down, that Shaq just missed blocking by a fingernail, that went in. Fisher then hit the ".4" shot to win the game for LA, but it poetic justice. Duncan wouldn't have hit that same shot, under the same conditions if he tried another thousand of them.

[GimmeThat]

On the topic of game 7, I would just say that it was two different philisophies.

If being at the right place, at the right time was no longer guaranteeing a win, which on such one game basis, a championship. Do what?

If making the right plays, going through the motion soundly, garnishes oppoftunities for blurrs. What can you do AND be criticized.?


But then, winning justifies all.

[T_L_P]

And who can forget the famous ".4 game." Yes, Duncan hit the go-ahead shot...BUT, talk about pure luck. The Spurs had something like 18 seconds left, and for some reason they inbounded to Duncan. Shaq immediately closed, and Timmy stumbled around for nearly the entire time. Finally, in desperation, and with Shaq's hand right in his face, he blindly threw up a prayer, while falling down, that Shaq just missed blocking by a fingernail, that went in. Fisher then hit the ".4" shot to win the game for LA, but it poetic justice. Duncan wouldn't have hit that same shot, under the same conditions if he tried another thousand of them.

How on Earth does 5.4 seconds become 18 seconds? :roll: There was no stumbling around, either. The initial action was to rub Manu off and pass him the ball as he was diving to the rim (he hit a game winner doing the same thing against Golden State a few years back, with Tim dropping the pass).

When that action failed, the only other option was Tim throwing up a prayer (which you're right about).

That said, your comment about Duncan not being able to hit that shot again if he had 1000 tries is pretty funny, since he did this season against the Grizzlies.

http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--6ZFR-n19--/c_fit,fl_progressive,q_80,w_636/alarhfycu0f6ovhdbjqt.gif

Gasol's hand movements are almost exactly the same as Shaq's (left hand on lower body/midsection, pushing him back), and Duncan catches the ball and turns to the same position also. The shots are almost exactly the same, and he made both :oldlol:

Please think before posting.

[jstern]

Because Duncan would have had to miss 13 more shots in a row, to match Kobe's percentage. It's no where near 6/24. It's simply a bad shooting night.

[daily]

Kobe: 23/15/2 on 6-24 with 4 TO's
Duncan: 25/11/3 on 10-27 with 5 TO's

In the 4th
Kobe: 10 points on 1-4, 4 boards, 1 assist, 1 steal, 1 TO
Duncan: 5 points on 2-5, 2 boards, 2 assists, 3 TO's

Was Duncan honestly any better than Kobe?

All players have off games even the great players. When you're the sole focus of a defense you're going to have bad outings in the playoffs where the intensity level is ratcheted up to it's highest level.

Only idiots and fanboys hold these games against a player.

All that matters is did they get the win? Were they fundamental in some way in securing the win?

Screw FG% on an off night that's just dickhead talk. You have multiple championships, a career that lands you in the discussion for all time greats. Deep playoff runs year after year you're doing something right and using those one two or even a handful of games to downplay his career is the stuff that simple minds like to debate

[Deuce Bigalow]

He ain't no Kobe

[ArbitraryWater]

In all fairness, Duncan's defense was a lot better than Kobe's.

This is akin to people comparing Bron's postseason run to some of Kobe's worst shooting runs. Yeah they're comparable on the scoring end, but that's where it ends. LeBron is a much better rebounder, defender and passer in these playoffs than most of Kobe's postseason runs where he shot terribly, and didn't do much else to offer a significant impact.

I'm not saying Bron is a much better player than Kobe or whatever, just calling it like I see it.

http://i.gyazo.com/63eee12f56e784e27b11302ef0791bc8.png


All players have off games even the great players. When you're the sole focus of a defense you're going to have bad outings in the playoffs where the intensity level is ratcheted up to it's highest level.

Only idiots and fanboys hold these games against a player.

All that matters is did they get the win? Were they fundamental in some way in securing the win?

Screw FG% on an off night that's just dickhead talk. You have multiple championships, a career that lands you in the discussion for all time greats. Deep playoff runs year after year you're doing something right and using those one two or even a handful of games to downplay his career is the stuff that simple minds like to debate

hey dummie, thats the thing, they were detrimental :oldlol:

at least Kobe's.. Timmy went off in the 3rd and played D.

[daily]

http://i.gyazo.com/63eee12f56e784e27b11302ef0791bc8.png



hey dummie, thats the thing, they were detrimental :oldlol:

at least Kobe's.. Timmy went off in the 3rd and played D.20,000 posts on this account, who knows how many on your others combined and you still don't know shit about basketball

Like I said simple minds focus on one moment in a great players career. Sadly you focused on a couple you didn't even see and only regurgitate the idiocy of other simple minded fools such as yourself

Don't respond to me anymore, you're too stupid to be seen with

[HOoopCityJones]

Duncan missed that many shots playing under the rim though, idc what anyone says that's way more atrocious.

[PickernRoller]

10/27 is a bad night.

6/24 is :biggums: . Especially if you watched the game. Kobe was playing retarded not just missing shots.

Wtf are you talking about. Kobe was missing Kobe-makeable shots all night. Open shots, the usual-contested shots he makes et-al...... bad shooting night period. Retarded shots? smh...

This clown another alt? :facepalm

As for the title? No one cares about Duncan - that's why no one remembers. Duncan has never been a threat to Kobe. Kobe haters do love to compare Duncan to him - solid trolling ammo.

[LAZERUSS]

BTW, I am not defending Kobe's 08 Finals, which were dreadful, but Duncan's efficiency against a great defensive center in '05 was just awful, as well. Overall, Timmy shot .419 from the field in that series, and on a .471 TS%.

Just an example of what Duncan's numbers looked like when he faced a defensive great.

[CeltsGarlic]

because duncan fans dont blame other spurs

[Mr. Jabbar]

No1 rlly cares about duncan

[24-Inch_Chrome]

Tony Parker is a bad man.

[triangleoffense]

You're right, bro. I probably shouldn't have spent that much time writing the post.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6161Cb6GB3E

That's all that needs to be seen. Duncan played a much better game than Kobe, end of thread. :cheers:
Those are kobe's worst plays and even in those highlights a lot of his teammates are just standing around watching him work.

You can call kobe a lot of things but he definitely wasn't going to get outworked in the finals or the playoffs.

[LAZERUSS]

Those are kobe's worst plays and even in those highlights a lot of his teammates are just standing around watching him work.

You can call kobe a lot of things but he definitely wasn't going to get outworked in the finals or the playoffs.

Kobe was the better player in the majority of those Spurs-Lakers series from '01 thru '08. And at times, WAY better.

[Ne 1]

"Despite Kobe struggling shooting the ball, he was instrumental on the glass in a low-scoring game where every possession was key and held Ray to 3 for 14 shooting" - Doc Rivers

"I thought in Game 7 [of the 2010 NBA Finals], what gets lost on people, Boston was badly out rebounded, and he [Kobe Bryant] didn't have a particularly good shooting night, but he had a great rebounding night and that probably was the difference of the game." - Tom Thibodeau

[Wade's Rings]

"Despite Kobe struggling shooting the ball, he was instrumental on the glass in a low-scoring game where every possession was key and held Ray to 3 for 14 shooting" - Doc Rivers

"I thought in Game 7 [of the 2010 NBA Finals], what gets lost on people, Boston was badly out rebounded, and he [Kobe Bryant] didn't have a particularly good shooting night, but he had a great rebounding night and that probably was the difference of the game." - Tom Thibodeau

Phil Jackson said Ron Artest was the MVP of Game 7.

[Ne 1]

Phil Jackson said Ron Artest was the MVP of Game 7.

Well let's not let's not forget Kobe's phenomenal Game 5 performance. If any of the other Lakers showed up that game, they wouldn't have even needed a Game 7.

Bryant detractors harp on Kobe's FG% in Game 7, but forgot Kobe's brilliance through 6 games--30/6/5/2/56% TS.

Not to mention how clutch he was in that Game 7 in the 4th quarter: 10 pts/61% TS/4 Reb/2 Ast. Had a hand in nearly every single point by the Lakers in the last 7-8 minutes.

That Lakers/Celtics series was a defensive battle. Nobody from the Lakers or Celtics had a particularly good shooing night for their position and Game 7 was brutally defensive:
Lakers shot 33% FG
Celtics shot 40% FG
NO LAKER player shot 50% other than Fisher
Entire Laker bench was 3 for 14

That game came down to rebounding and FTs. Kobe grabed what, 15 boars as a guard!? That is unheard of. He shot 14 FTs (only missed 3). He also played great D. It was a brutal game and Kobe did what was needed to win. He hit 7/8 free throws in the 4th quarter, grabbed 15 boards, and hit a huge jumper with like 2 minutes left to put the Lakers up 6 and the Celtics couldn't get back in the game after he hit that shot. Kobe haters just point out he he had a poor shooting night but nobody really had a good shooting game. I mostly credit good defense on both sides.

[HOoopCityJones]

Well let's not let's not forget Kobe's phenomenal Game 5 performance. If any of the other Lakers showed up that game, they wouldn't have even needed a Game 7.

Bryant detractors harp on Kobe's FG% in Game 7, but forgot Kobe's brilliance through 6 games--30/6/5/2/56% TS.

Not to mention how clutch he was in that Game 7 in the 4th quarter: 10 pts/61% TS/4 Reb/2 Ast. Had a hand in nearly every single point by the Lakers in the last 7-8 minutes.

That Lakers/Celtics series was a defensive battle. Nobody from the Lakers or Celtics had a particularly good shooing night for their position and Game 7 was brutally defensive:
Lakers shot 33% FG
Celtics shot 40% FG
NO LAKER player shot 50% other than Fisher
Entire Laker bench was 3 for 14

That game came down to rebounding and FTs. Kobe grabed what, 15 boars as a guard!? That is unheard of. He shot 14 FTs (only missed 3). He also played great D. It was a brutal game and Kobe did what was needed to win. He hit 7/8 free throws in the 4th quarter, grabbed 15 boards, and hit a huge jumper with like 2 minutes left to put the Lakers up 6 and the Celtics couldn't get back in the game after he hit that shot. Kobe haters just point out he he had a poor shooting night but nobody really had a good shooting game. I mostly credit good defense on both sides.

Bron stans can't read.

[brownmamba00]

cuz he ain't kobe.

[Wade's Rings]

Well let's not let's not forget Kobe's phenomenal Game 5 performance. If any of the other Lakers showed up that game, they wouldn't have even needed a Game 7.

Bryant detractors harp on Kobe's FG% in Game 7, but forgot Kobe's brilliance through 6 games--30/6/5/2/56% TS.

Not to mention how clutch he was in that Game 7 in the 4th quarter: 10 pts/61% TS/4 Reb/2 Ast. Had a hand in nearly every single point by the Lakers in the last 7-8 minutes.

That Lakers/Celtics series was a defensive battle. Nobody from the Lakers or Celtics had a particularly good shooing night for their position and Game 7 was brutally defensive:
Lakers shot 33% FG
Celtics shot 40% FG
NO LAKER player shot 50% other than Fisher
Entire Laker bench was 3 for 14

That game came down to rebounding and FTs. Kobe grabed what, 15 boars as a guard!? That is unheard of. He shot 14 FTs (only missed 3). He also played great D. It was a brutal game and Kobe did what was needed to win. He hit 7/8 free throws in the 4th quarter, grabbed 15 boards, and hit a huge jumper with like 2 minutes left to put the Lakers up 6 and the Celtics couldn't get back in the game after he hit that shot. Kobe haters just point out he he had a poor shooting night but nobody really had a good shooting game. I mostly credit good defense on both sides.

Excellent Recap.

[Wade's Rings]

Bron stans can't read.

:facepalm I'm not a Bron Stan

[moey-]

23 points on 24 shots, as opposed to 25 pts on 27 shots... Not much of a difference hey?

[Ne 1]

23 points on 24 shots, as opposed to 25 pts on 27 shots... Not much of a difference hey?
As a center compared to a 2 guard? Duncan's a 7 footer and the majority of his shots are around the basket. 37% is awful for a center.

[rmt]

As a center compared to a 2 guard? Duncan's a 7 footer and the majority of his shots are around the basket. 37% is awful for a center.

And 25% for Kobe is better? However you slice it, 37% > 25%. Maybe you want to watch the game so you can see who it was that was being double-teamed (by no less than a 3x DPOY/4x all-defensive 1st team Ben Wallace) and who opened up shots for team mates for the win when those double teams came. Hint: it wasn't Kobe.

[Magic 32]

Bill Simmons on Duncan's 2005 finals...

Enduring Story Line: “Tim Duncan might be great, but he’s not transcendent.” And that wasn’t totally fair. A gimpy Duncan won his third Finals MVP by default (20.6 PPG, 14.1 RPG, 42% FG, 67% FT), missing 22 of 32 shots in Games 3 and 4, missing six of seven free throws down the stretch of Game 5 (as well as what should been an easy game-winning putback), then gutting out a 10-for-27 in Game 7 that was just good enough. The 2005 Finals could have cemented his “Best Player of His Generation” claim, but physically he couldn’t pull it off (leaving the door juuuuuuuuuuuuuuuust open enough for Kobe). Even Duncan admitted afterward, “We can play a lot better, and that’s something horrible to say up here right now as we’re sitting up here NBA champs.

This is the bottom line for both Kobe in 2010 and Duncan in 2005.

Physically they just couldn’t pull it off. Not compared to the greatness of MJ at the end of his Bulls run.

And it might be the same (or even worse) for Lebron.

[Solid Snake]

Because in general, a wing player shooting terribly at that volume is seen as chucking.

When's the last time a big man has been accused of chucking?

Doesn't happen. We applaud post players who put up shots.

That's the difference. No bias.

[ninephive]

Everyone has bad games. You think it's something really radical when it's G7 of the finals. And although that doesn't seem arbitrary, I could just as easily throw out "Game 7s" (in general). Or I could throw out Finals eliminations games. Or Finals clinching games. Or I could throw out series clinching/elimination games. You can put a specialized filter on anyone to try and single them out, and pretty much 100% of the time you can make anyone look bad/unclutch (you just need the right filter). For Jordan it was 1-9 before Pippen. Never got to the Finals before Phil. 5 sub-.500 seasons (Duncan's never had a season under .600 and he's played longer). All you have to do is find the right filter.