Second generation Blacks more likely to go to college than Blacks and Whites

[TripleA]

https://qzprod.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/school-completion-men-whites-black-immi-2nd-gen-black-native-black.jpeg?w=1024

A new paper (pdf) from University of Chicago PhD candidate Alison Rauh finds that black immigrants tend to be more successful than black Americans. They out-earn black natives (after accounting for age) and are more likely to be employed. This is not surprising; white immigrant groups outperform their native cohort too. But what’s most intriguing is how their children fare. The children of black immigrants are more likely to go to and complete college than native blacks (and whites) and are less likely to drop out of high school.

Just shows it does not matter your color if you want to succeed you just need hard work.

[DeuceWallaces]

https://qzprod.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/school-completion-men-whites-black-immi-2nd-gen-black-native-black.jpeg?w=1024Just shows it does not matter your color if you want to succeed you just need hard work.

That is not what it says at all.

Anyway, have a link to the actual paper and not some shitty infographic?

[HitandRun Reggie]

Wouldn't surprise me. You have to be of fairly ambitious genetic stock to travel overseas and adapt to a new language and culture. Look at Indians in America. India has a lower average IQ and literacy rate than most Latin American countries but the immigrants are very smart. On the other hand black slaves weren't selected for intelligence or ambition and European immigrants didn't have to adapt nearly as hard as immigrants from other parts of the overseas world.

[HeatFanSince88]

the africans that go to America are usually the elite of their countries. They go there strictly to study or for a job. It's similar to the indians that come here except the blacks arn't quite that high.

But if your talking about the africans that go to Europe they are on par, or even worse than regular African Americans. They just go there to milk the system.

[nathanjizzle]

immigrants that come to america are motivated to build their life here. thats why they fair well against the odds that are against them. they instill this into their children as well.

[Joyner82reload]

Bu bu but the system keeps blacks from succeeding in America :rolleyes:

[NumberSix]

Bu bu but the system keeps blacks from succeeding in America :rolleyes:
Well, in some ways it does. The schools in poor black areas seem to be pretty awful. That's gonna be pretty difficult to fix though.

It should come as no surprise that in every poor black area, there is one political party who is running everything. The way they run things just doesn't work, and unfortunately, it's the same party who is politically tied to the unions. Start voting for the party that doesn't give a shit about the teachers unions. People always talk about republicans pandering to big business, and there is truth to that, but nobody seems to care that the democrats are in the pocket of the unions, and that's devastating to the education system in the areas they control.

[DonDadda59]

the africans that go to America are usually the elite of their countries.

That's true for every ethnic group. I imagine uprooting your life and moving to the U.S. is not a cheap endeavor. It's not poor rice farmers from China or coal mine workers from Angola doing this. Those who have the ability to do so most likely already have means. They can afford to move here, buy a house, pay for school, etc.

The non elite who move here often do so illegally and they don't go to Harvard or Yale, they end up working as cheap manual laborers (if they can even get a job while being undocumented).

[rezznor]

all immigrants seem to be more driven and ambitious.

[rezznor]

Well, in some ways it does. The schools in poor black areas seem to be pretty awful. That's gonna be pretty difficult to fix though.

It should come as no surprise that in every poor black area, there is one political party who is running everything. The way they run things just doesn't work, and unfortunately, it's the same party who is politically tied to the unions. Start voting for the party that doesn't give a shit about the teachers unions. People always talk about republicans pandering to big business, and there is truth to that, but nobody seems to care that the democrats are in the pocket of the unions, and that's devastating to the education system in the areas they control.
i started off as an immigrant going to these same schools. my family wasn't rich, we were refugees. what's my excuse? :confusedshrug:

[DeuceWallaces]

You can always find someone who represents the 5-10% lucky success story. I went to the same schools and I'm about to finish my PhD.

That shouldn't detract from the serious issues facing these schools, neighborhoods, and families.

[rezznor]

You can always find someone who represents the 5-10% lucky success story. I went to the same schools and I'm about to finish my PhD.

That shouldn't detract from the serious issues facing these schools, neighborhoods, and families.
yea the schools have issues, but my point is you can always overcome the obstacles if you have the right mindset. my parents came to this country with no money and didnt even speak english. they were at a bigger disadvantage than the people who were born here into poverty. they didnt make excuses and demand handouts. they just worked their asses off, educated themselves, and instilled the same values in their children. they acknowledged that this is a "white man's world" but the lesson they taught me was to just work twice as hard. they never once complained that "the man" was keeping us down.

[Akrazotile]

You can always find someone who represents the 5-10% lucky success story. I went to the same schools and I'm about to finish my PhD.

That shouldn't detract from the serious issues facing these schools, neighborhoods, and families.


Of these three, school education is the least important. Most successful people dont remember a lot of the random shit they learned in 5th grade or 9th grade. What grade schools are good for is instilling an understanding of work and reward, proper social behavior, etc. You dont need expensive computers and brand new auditoriums and bloated teacher pensions to achieve these things.

The problem is the culture these kids are growing up with at home. Theres nothing schools can do about that. But we keep that on the hush because sshhhh!!! its "racist" to criticize anything that goes on in the hood! Instead we yell out "more money to the schools!!!! More rich peoples money in those schools!!!!!" And what we get is misapropriated, mismanaged funds that nobody pays attention to, and zero results from a lot of these populations.

Libs killin em slowly. Well done, left.

[rezznor]

That's true for every ethnic group. I imagine uprooting your life and moving to the U.S. is not a cheap endeavor. It's not poor rice farmers from China or coal mine workers from Angola doing this. Those who have the ability to do so most likely already have means. They can afford to move here, buy a house, pay for school, etc.

The non elite who move here often do so illegally and they don't go to Harvard or Yale, they end up working as cheap manual laborers (if they can even get a job while being undocumented).
not necessarily true. i dont have the numbers, but anecdotally i know plenty of immigrants that came to the US without much and became successful within a decade or 2.

not just asians either. i know latin americans, africans and europeans who fit this. it's the mindset.

[rezznor]

Of these three, school education is the least important. Most successful people dont remember a lot of the random shit they learned in 5th grade or 9th grade. What grade schools are good for is instilling an understanding of work and reward, proper social behavior, etc. You dont need expensive computers and brand new auditoriums and bloated teacher pensions to achieve these things.

The problem is the culture these kids are growing up with at home. Theres nothing schools can do about that. But we keep that on the hush because sshhhh!!! its "racist" to criticize anything that goes on in the hood! Instead we yell out "more money to the schools!!!! More rich peoples money in those schools!!!!!" And what we get is misapropriated, mismanaged funds that nobody pays attention to, and zero results from a lot of these populations.

Libs killin em slowly. Well done, left.i don't agree with you much but this is spot on

[DeuceWallaces]

yea the schools have issues, but my point is you can always overcome the obstacles if you have the right mindset. my parents came to this country with no money and didnt even speak english. they were at a bigger disadvantage than the people who were born here into poverty. they didnt make excuses and demand handouts. they just worked their asses off, educated themselves, and instilled the same values in their children. they acknowledged that this is a "white man's world" but the lesson they taught me was to just work twice as hard. they never once complained that "the man" was keeping us down.

No you can't always overcome them with a positive attitude. That is the problem.

[rezznor]

No you can't always overcome them with a positive attitude. That is the problem.
Bullshit. Stop complaining and expecting handouts. Prioritize education and hard work and you will overcome. There is no excuse in America. Go back to my motherland and they will laugh at you if you can't make it here.


The schools aren't the biggest obstacle. It's the culture.

[DonDadda59]

not necessarily true. i dont have the numbers, but anecdotally i know plenty of immigrants that came to the US without much and became successful within a decade or 2.

not just asians either. i know latin americans, africans and europeans who fit this. it's the mindset.

Well then anecdotally I can walk right now to Northern Blvd in my town, across the street from Home Depot and find dozens of undocumented Latin Americans hanging out on the sidewalk looking for under the table work. I can pull a ton of articles about the illegal human trafficking trade in NYC that brings in poor Asians and essentially turns them into indentured servants for life (they charge them $10,000+ with interest for the trip, and knowing they can't pay, force them into menial labor/sex jobs to 'pay off' the debt). They live in the worst kind of squalor and education is the absolute least of their worries, especially since most never bother to learn English.

From my personal experience, again anecdotally, the foreigners who come to this country and excel in higher learning are those from well off families (and I've been to many of the most elite schools in the country at every level). I never really ran into anyone who was the son or daughter of a dirt poor rice farmer from China or street vendor from India.

[rezznor]

Well then anecdotally I can walk right now to Northern Blvd in my town, across the street from Home Depot and find dozens of undocumented Latin Americans hanging out on the sidewalk looking for under the table work. I can pull a ton of articles about the illegal human trafficking trade in NYC that brings in poor Asians and essentially turns them into indentured servants for life (they charge them $10,000+ with interest for the trip, and knowing they can't pay, force them into menial labor/sex jobs to 'pay off' the debt). They live in the worst kind of squalor and education is the absolute least of their worries, especially since most never bother to learn English.
sure but i bet the kids of those illegal immigrants have a much better chance at success than they would if they were still south of the border. as for the human trafficked asians, of course they are in intolerable conditions. they are pretty much slaves. they dont have the freedom to pursue the opportunities that america has to offer, even if they came here thinking they would be able to. do you agree they have less opportunity than the people born here free, but in the hood?

[rezznor]

From my personal experience, again anecdotally, the foreigners who come to this country and excel in higher learning are those from well off families (and I've been to many of the most elite schools in the country at every level). I never really ran into anyone who was the son or daughter of a dirt poor rice farmer from China or street vendor from India.


yea i know there are plenty of foreigners who come here who are rich but i come from a refugee generation, so most of the ones i know and grew up with were not rich, i cannot think of any family i knew that remained poor. hell, look at houston's chinatown. it started off pretty ghetto and poor but has become very well off and we are often targeted by criminals because of that.

[DonDadda59]

sure but i bet the kids of those illegal immigrants have a much better chance at success than they would if they were still south of the border. as for the human trafficked asians, of course they are in intolerable conditions. they are pretty much slaves. they dont have the freedom to pursue the opportunities that america has to offer, even if they came here thinking they would be able to. do you agree they have less opportunity than the people born here free, but in the hood?

That was never my point. Just pointing out that the majority of people who come from overseas and can afford to live here, pay for college, etc had the means to do so. They are usually the upper echeleon of whatever country they hail from, so naturally they are going to have better matriculation/graduation rates than the poor 'indigenous' people.

If a bunch of upper middle-upper class Americans migrated to Sri Lanka in droves to attend College there, you'd expect their matriculation/graduation rates to be higher than the poor inhabitants there, yes?

And what would that tell anyone? :confusedshrug:

[DeuceWallaces]

That was never my point. Just pointing out that the majority of people who come from overseas and can afford to live here, pay for college, etc had the means to do so. They are usually the upper echeleon of whatever country they hail from, so naturally they are going to have better matriculation/graduation rates than the poor 'indigenous' people.

If a bunch of upper middle-upper class Americans migrated to Sri Lanka in droves to attend College there, you'd expect their matriculation/graduation rates to be higher than the poor inhabitants there, yes?

And what would that tell anyone? :confusedshrug:

Doesn't have to be Sri Lanka. Bunch of upper middle class Americans can go to any Western Euro country and outperform their lower class native counterparts.

[NBAplayoffs2001]

Well then anecdotally I can walk right now to Northern Blvd in my town, across the street from Home Depot and find dozens of undocumented Latin Americans hanging out on the sidewalk looking for under the table work. I can pull a ton of articles about the illegal human trafficking trade in NYC that brings in poor Asians and essentially turns them into indentured servants for life (they charge them $10,000+ with interest for the trip, and knowing they can't pay, force them into menial labor/sex jobs to 'pay off' the debt). They live in the worst kind of squalor and education is the absolute least of their worries, especially since most never bother to learn English.

From my personal experience, again anecdotally, the foreigners who come to this country and excel in higher learning are those from well off families (and I've been to many of the most elite schools in the country at every level). I never really ran into anyone who was the son or daughter of a dirt poor rice farmer from China or street vendor from India.

You really won't find that in NYC especially considering most of them live in middle class neighborhoods too and some in high end areas especially in Queens. Generally speaking, public high schools in NYC aren't that great. If somehow they could be avoided, they should be.

[Akrazotile]

That was never my point. Just pointing out that the majority of people who come from overseas and can afford to live here, pay for college, etc had the means to do so. They are usually the upper echeleon of whatever country they hail from, so naturally they are going to have better matriculation/graduation rates than the poor 'indigenous' people.

If a bunch of upper middle-upper class Americans migrated to Sri Lanka in droves to attend College there, you'd expect their matriculation/graduation rates to be higher than the poor inhabitants there, yes?

And what would that tell anyone? :confusedshrug:


This seems to be currently true for African immigrants in particular, but I disagree this is the case in general with most other immigrants. Lots of poor hispanic and asian come here. Some of them start from nothing and make it, but more often if nothing else they labor and at least have kids who will have better prospects than they did or would if they were born in their home country. This is true for earlier european immigrants as well. MOST immigrants still come here poor I would guess.

I think the diff with African immigrants is that there are no "african" communities to support lower income immigrants, unlike what is available to hispanic and asian migrants. Same with Indians who come here and generally have some kind of means to get started. If you dont speak English, you at least need a community of similar people. There are few areas that are prediminantly of Indian or any Africa national orign, so those peeps will prob be only more inclined to come only if they have resources to support themselves.

[BlakFrankWhite]

@Akrazotile

Where did you copy,paste it from?

[ace23]

That was never my point. Just pointing out that the majority of people who come from overseas and can afford to live here, pay for college, etc had the means to do so.
This is not true. Immigrants have higher rates of poverty than natives in the US, even the legal ones.

[DeuceWallaces]

This is not true. Immigrants have higher rates of poverty than natives in the US, even the legal ones.

He's not talking about all immigrants necessarily.

Those numbers are highly skewed by central and south america. Immigrants from industrialized nations have much lower poverty rates than natives as a whole.

[ace23]

He's not talking about all immigrants necessarily.

Those numbers are highly skewed by central and south america. Immigrants from industrialized nations have much lower poverty rates than natives as a whole.
Same is true for African immigrants.

I think the difference between African immigrants that come here and regular ****** is their earning potential. Though many come here poor, they're likely to be very driven since they've decided to abandon their previous life to make a better one. The ones who are content with their lives just stay where they're at. That's my theory anyway.

[MavsSuperFan]

Same is true for African immigrants.

I think the difference between African immigrants that come here and regular ****** is their earning potential. Though many come here poor, they're likely to be very driven since they've decided to abandon their previous life to make a better one. The ones who are content with their lives just stay where they're at. That's my theory anyway.
Its not just that.
It is also that african immigrants cant just cross the border into america illegally. it is hard for them to come to america illegally because of how far away africa is.

The US does not just allow anyone to live and work in the US. there are standards to be met to live in the US legally. (obviously illegal immigrants avoid all this by sneaking in)

There are several ways to live legally in the US.
1. you are here on a student visa. Basically you are here to attend an american university and have been accepted into that university.

2. your american employer has helped you apply for a H1B visa
http://www.cvtips.com/job-search/how-to-get-a-work-permit-for-the-usa.html

The H1B covers the following professions until date:

Doctors
Surgeons
Nurses
Health care workers
IT/ Computer professionals
Engineers
Architects
Financial analysts
Physicians
Lawyers
University professors and teachers

Eg. a lot of south asian and east asians working in the tech industry are brought here by tech companies to work.

3. You are willing to invest in the US. EB-5 Visas
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EB-5_visa


The EB-5 visa provides a method of obtaining a green card for foreign nationals who invest money in the United States.[1] To obtain the visa, individuals must invest $1,000,000 (or at least $500,000 in a Targeted Employment Area - high unemployment or rural area), creating or preserving at least 10 jobs for U.S. workers excluding the investor and their immediate family.[1] Initially, under the first EB-5 program, the foreign investor was required to create an entirely new commercial enterprise; however, under the Pilot Program investments can be made directly in a job-generating commercial enterprise (new, or existing - "Troubled Business"[2]), or into a "Regional Center" - a 3rd party-managed investment vehicle (private or public), which assumes the responsibility of creating the requisite jobs. Regional Centers may charge an administration fee for managing the investor's investment.

If the foreign national investor's petition is approved, the investor and their dependents will be granted conditional permanent residence valid for two years.[2] Within the 90 day period before the conditional permanent residence expires, the investor must submit evidence documenting that the full required investment has been made and that 10 jobs have been maintained, or 10 jobs have been created or will be created within a reasonable time period

So basically the INS only allows capable people to come to the US. this is why legal immigrants tend to do better than average. it is a biased sample. These legal immigrants tend to be more capable than average.

In contrast immigrants that come to the US illegally from latin american are a biased sample of the most desperate people. Refugees in counter similar challenges, but the US doesnt take many refugees.

[Akrazotile]

@Akrazotile

Where did you copy,paste it from?


my brain :lebronaamzed:

[BlakFrankWhite]

my brain :lebronaamzed:


You sir have won my respect..

Always thought you were a paranoid dude who was obsessed with pe##s sizes of other posters...

[Akrazotile]

You sir have won my respect..

Always thought you were a paranoid dude who was obsessed with pe##s sizes of other posters...


I am. :confusedshrug:


But I still got other holdings in my portfolio.

:basketball

[NumberSix]

Same is true for African immigrants.

I think the difference between African immigrants that come here and regular ****** is their earning potential. Though many come here poor, they're likely to be very driven since they've decided to abandon their previous life to make a better one. The ones who are content with their lives just stay where they're at. That's my theory anyway.
So basically, if you are driven, you can succeed. The difference between blacks who succeed and blacks who don't succeed is the content of their character?

[ace23]

So basically, if you are driven, you can succeed.
If you are driven, you are generally more likely to "succeed". This is not the case for everyone.


The difference between blacks who succeed and blacks who don't succeed is the content of their character?
Sometimes. :confusedshrug:

My point is that it's kinda pointless to compare a native population to a subset of another population that has already demonstrated extreme drive to improve their lives.