Chicago Bulls 1986-1987 Roster...

[Dro]

Anybody who posts 1-9 without context or posting Jordan's monster stats should be shot.....Its blatant hating....Also, those same posters should probably explain what more Jordan should have done to carry his awesome cast.....

Jordan's 86-87 season...3rd season, 1st season after missing 64 games the previous season with an ankle injury.....

40 mpg, 37ppg, 48% FG, 5 reb, 5 ast, 3 steals, and 2 blocks per game

Charles Oakley - 15ppg, 10rbg
John Paxson - 11ppg, 37% from three...
The mighty Gene Banks - 10ppg, 5rpg...
And the man in the middle...David Corzine, 10ppg, 6rpg
Brad Sellers - 9ppg, 5rpg

Look at that awesome squad......

Go ahead and explain what more MJ should have done to help this team get wins...We're waiting........seriously....How could he have made his teammates better?

This team finished 40-42

[ImKobe]

Pretty much the equivalent of Kobe's 2006 squad, minus Phil Jackson of course.

Neither team had any chance of contending. Maybe Kobe's team had a slight edge because their 1st round opponent was missing one of their key players, but even then losing in 7 is a feat on it's own.

MJ gets a pass because you're not expecting him to win jack shit with that squad when you have Detroit and Boston in that conference and Lakers on the other side.

[Dro]

Pretty much the equivalent of Kobe's 2006 squad, minus Phil Jackson of course.

Neither team had any chance of contending. Maybe Kobe's team had a slight edge because their 1st round opponent was missing one of their key players, but even then losing in 7 is a feat on it's own.

MJ gets a pass because you're not expecting him to win jack shit with that squad when you have Detroit and Boston in that conference and Lakers on the other side.
Nah, I feel you..Kobe's squad was pretty bad..I'm definitely not one to hate on him for that one, but then again, I like all these guys...Lebron, Kobe, and MJ...Not like most of these folks...

[Young X]

And back then you had to face the top division teams 6 times a season instead of 4 times. The Bulls this season went 2/12 against the Celtics and Pistons which deflated their regular season record. Same thing happened in '89 when they went 0/12 against the Pistons and Cavs.

[ShackEelOKneel]

Anybody who posts 1-9 without context or posting Jordan's monster stats should be shot.....Its blatant hating....Also, those same posters should probably explain what more Jordan should have done to carry his awesome cast.....

Jordan's 86-87 season...3rd season, 1st season after missing 64 games the previous season with an ankle injury.....

40 mpg, 37ppg, 48% FG, 5 reb, 5 ast, 3 steals, and 2 blocks per game

Charles Oakley - 15ppg, 10rbg
John Paxson - 11ppg, 37% from three...
The mighty Gene Banks - 10ppg, 5rpg...
And the man in the middle...David Corzine, 10ppg, 6rpg
Brad Sellers - 9ppg, 5rpg

Look at that awesome squad......

Go ahead and explain what more MJ should have done to help this team get wins...We're waiting........seriously....How could he have made his teammates better?

This team finished 40-42

Too much effort to combat people who are obviously trolling.

[ImKobe]

Nah, I feel you..Kobe's squad was pretty bad..I'm definitely not one to hate on him for that one, but then again, I like all these guys...Lebron, Kobe, and MJ...Not like most of these folks...

I'm with you on that one. I appreciate their games and I've followed their Playoff runs religiously. Just because I have my disputes with certain fans doesn't mean I don't like Lebron or MJ, they have done nothing to make me hate them personally.

[SHAQisGOAT]

Little to no help offensively...
Oakley was a very good defensive player, tough af, great rebounder but not even a 15+PPG scorer. Paxson was a solid PG, Corzine a decent C, Banks an above average all-around SF, let's leave it at that, and that ain't saying much at all. Sellers was an athletic 7 footer who could play some D on the perimeter, not much else. Bench was very weak.
That supporting cast was below average.

Mike had to carry all the offensive load, that's why you see all those major scoring numbers, which are as impressive as it gets, and he was getting all the attention.
40wins in a mighty stacked conference with that roster is pretty good.

Well, they were rebuilding - which totally worked.
They had a legit 20 PPG scorer in Woolridge but he signed elsewhere, Quintin Dailey a nice scorer off the bench was gone, Dave Greenwood one of their best defenders was gone in '85, Kyle Macy a solid PG was traded and then went to Europe. Gervin finally retired.
...

[Blue&Orange]

Too much effort to combat people who are obviously trolling.
exactly nobody but a pubescent kid and his 37 socket puppets accounts cares about 1-9.

[OldSchoolBBall]

Anybody who posts 1-9 without context or posting Jordan's monster stats should be shot.....Its blatant hating....Also, those same posters should probably explain what more Jordan should have done to carry his awesome cast.....

Jordan's 86-87 season...3rd season, 1st season after missing 64 games the previous season with an ankle injury.....

40 mpg, 37ppg, 48% FG, 5 reb, 5 ast, 3 steals, and 2 blocks per game

Charles Oakley - 15ppg, 10rbg
John Paxson - 11ppg, 37% from three...
The mighty Gene Banks - 10ppg, 5rpg...
And the man in the middle...David Corzine, 10ppg, 6rpg
Brad Sellers - 9ppg, 5rpg

Look at that awesome squad......

Go ahead and explain what more MJ should have done to help this team get wins...We're waiting........seriously....How could he have made his teammates better?

This team finished 40-42

Don't forget to mention that Oakley's 14.5 ppg was on 49% TS. Just horribly inefficient. Couldn't catch and finish inside for anything. That was MJ's second option that year in a league where teams were more talented on average than they are today and usually had 3-5 14-18+ ppg scorers.

[Smoke117]

1-9

[sportjames23]

Anybody who posts 1-9 without context or posting Jordan's monster stats should be shot.....Its blatant hating....Also, those same posters should probably explain what more Jordan should have done to carry his awesome cast.....

Jordan's 86-87 season...3rd season, 1st season after missing 64 games the previous season with an ankle injury.....

40 mpg, 37ppg, 48% FG, 5 reb, 5 ast, 3 steals, and 2 blocks per game

Charles Oakley - 15ppg, 10rbg
John Paxson - 11ppg, 37% from three...
The mighty Gene Banks - 10ppg, 5rpg...
And the man in the middle...David Corzine, 10ppg, 6rpg
Brad Sellers - 9ppg, 5rpg

Look at that awesome squad......

Go ahead and explain what more MJ should have done to help this team get wins...We're waiting........seriously....How could he have made his teammates better?

This team finished 40-42


Real talk. :cheers:

[dick tracy]

they sucked
they lost to the Celtics in 5
Jordan won only one with 63 points:coleman:

[SHAQisGOAT]

they sucked
they lost to the Celtics in 5
Jordan won only one with 63 points:coleman:

:coleman:

They were swept by the Celtics (in 3 because the 1st round was 5games back then).

Jordan scored 63 in '86, not in '87, and they didn't win the game, they were swept then too.

[dick tracy]

:coleman:

They were swept by the Celtics (in 3 because the 1st round was 5games back then).

Jordan scored 63 in '86, not in '87, and they didn't win the game, they were swept then too.


I could have sworne they won one game check the stats agian:coleman:

[Dro]

I could have sworne they won one game check the stats agian:coleman:
I think they were swept although I'm too lazy to look it up right now.......

[SHAQisGOAT]

I think they were swept although I'm too lazy to look it up right now.......

I know for a fact that Jordan never won a Playoff game vs Bird; and that 63points game was in '86, C's won that game in OT (went to it after a bs foul call on a Jordan 3pt attempt).

Celtics in '86 have a case for GOAT team, MJ was coming off of a broken foot too.
In 1987? C's weren't close to the same level; Wedman was gone, Walton finally broke down completely, Sichting leveled down and the bench sucked, starters logged more min's than ever while older, McHale was having problems (later on they found out it was a broken foot) and even missed 1 game of the series... BUT the Bulls simply sucked while Boston still great and thus still went ham on them in similar fashion to the previous season.

[3ball]

.
In 1987, defenders didn't have to guard weakside 3-pointers, so they didn't have to be on the weakside - all defenders remained on the strongside and/or in the paint, and therefore closest to help on strongside action:


http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/573113292e852dcb8f5fe242c53e3982.gif



Otoh, in today's game, it's the opposite - defenders DO have to guard weakside 3-pointers, so they must position themselves BEHIND the far side of the paint on the weakside, and therefore furthest from helping on strongside penetration:


http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/6-05-2015/P5Zone.gif


With all potential help defenders behind the far side of the paint on the weakside, the paint is left wide open.. MJ never faced a paint that was wide open with no defenders.. EVER.. This is a fact.

[diamenz]

"1-9" is all the bron stans have left as ammo, and they're shootin' blanks. not to mention how shook they are right now.

[32jazz]

Anybody who posts 1-9 without context or posting Jordan's monster stats ..

More whining &'excuse making for the GOAT? Since most Jordan fans seem to be dumb or delusional or both I must explain how the draft works in professional sports.


Elite players are most always drafted to bad teams ,but I don't hear as much excuse making for other impact greats.

1)Kareem was drafted to the 20 win expansion team Milwaukee Bucks which instantly won 56 games with Kareem & took an expansion to the conference finals .

That's true impact on a franchise . No whining for Kareem.

2)David Rodinson was drafted to the 21 win Spurs team & immediately turned them into a 56 win team & 2nd rd exit. No whining about being drafted to a losing franchise. Missed a season in 97 & the Spurs plummet into the lottery & get Duncan.


3)Bird was drafted to the Celtic bwho had won 32 & 29 games the previous 2 seasons & immediately helped elevate them to 60 wins & the ECF with Cornbread Maxwell as his 2nd best player.


Bill Russll ,Wilt Chamberlain & especially LeBron James(and a few others) have shown the same type of impact when they arrive & leave teams. LeBron James impact is nothing short of astonishing .


MJ hasn't shown that same impact ,but I admit he was perhaps the greatest individual finisher' ever. Add MJ to a bad team & they are slightly worse & he puts up good numbers.


LeBron Kareem & others elevate that bad talent/teams & take them to places they don't belong.

[32jazz]

For the whining MJ fans I would like the repeat how professional sports drafts work. The elite players usually go to bad teams/bad teammates.


If anything great impact players like Kareem (who turned around a 20 win expansion franchise ) ruined teir franchises ability to slowly build in the draft(although Kareem was lucky enough to get an aging Big O). Plus they have few trade pieces.

The incompetent Bul!s between 85-87 alone had 4 top 10 draft picks(missed on 2) which they turned into Pippen & Grant .


So the excuses & narratives for MJ "He didn't have help " early on .

Through the Bulls incompetence & Jordan's inability to elevate them they get 4 top ten picks & build a damn good team

Then MJ " carried the Bulls " & his fans try to dismiss how good the Bulls were without MJ & being replaced by a CBA journeyman Pete 'friggin' Myers when they nearly win 60 games(despite not having a NBA caliber replacement for MJ).

They spout off random stas about 80's MJ teammates ,but refuse to talk about Pete Myers averaging 4/2/2 in MJ' s place & the Bulls still nearly winning 60 games.

MJ was probably the geatest 'finisher' & at the end of the day it's all about winning.

But MJ's ability to elevate carry & his instant mpact on teams is a myth. Kareem,Lebron,Bird,etc......instant impact is indisputable.


The MJ excuses to prop up his impact get old.

[nzahir]

Lebron carried larry hughes and big z to the finals...lebron does the most with least talent tbh

Out of all the top 10 players of all time he has played with least talent overall or injuries to teammates; besides hakeem probably, but maybe thats why hakeem didnt do much except for those 2 seasons.

[Roundball_Rock]

For the whining MJ fans I would like the repeat how professional sports drafts work. The elite players usually go to bad teams/bad teammates.


If anything great impact players like Kareem (who turned around a 20 win expansion franchise ) ruined teir franchises ability to slowly build in the draft(although Kareem was lucky enough to get an aging Big O). Plus they have few trade pieces.

The incompetent Bul!s between 85-87 alone had 4 top 10 draft picks(missed on 2) which they turned into Pippen & Grant .


So the excuses & narratives for MJ "He didn't have help " early on .

Through the Bulls incompetence & Jordan's inability to elevate them they get 4 top ten picks & build a damn good team

Then MJ " carried the Bulls " & his fans try to dismiss how good the Bulls were without MJ & being replaced by a CBA journeyman Pete 'friggin' Myers when they nearly win 60 games(despite not having a NBA caliber replacement for MJ).

They spout off random stas about 80's MJ teammates ,but refuse to talk about Pete Myers averaging 4/2/2 in MJ' s place & the Bulls still nearly winning 60 games.

MJ was probably the geatest 'finisher' & at the end of the day it's all about winning.

But MJ's ability to elevate carry & his instant mpact on teams is a myth. Kareem,Lebron,Bird,etc......instant impact is indisputable.


The MJ excuses to prop up his impact get old.

:applause:

Great post and particularly about the draft. If MJ elevated the Bulls out the gate like every other GOAT-caliber player did the Bulls would not have been able to draft Pippen or Grant. Even in MJ's fifth year the Bulls started 13-12 before Pippen was named a permanent starter and the winning started.

In 1985 and 1986 MJ had a SF who averaged 23 and 21 ppg and a #3 option who averaged 16 ppg. What more did the "GOAT" need? Particularly since MJ stans claim you could plug any generic #2 option with MJ and the result would be a dynasty. Evidently he needed that SF to also be the GOAT perimeter defender and he needed his third best player to be yet another elite defender and good rebounder.

[Dro]

More whining &'excuse making for the GOAT? Since most Jordan fans seem to be dumb or delusional or both I must explain how the draft works in professional sports.


Elite players are most always drafted to bad teams ,but I don't hear as much excuse making for other impact greats.

1)Kareem was drafted to the 20 win expansion team Milwaukee Bucks which instantly won 56 games with Kareem & took an expansion to the conference finals .

That's true impact on a franchise . No whining for Kareem.

2)David Rodinson was drafted to the 21 win Spurs team & immediately turned them into a 56 win team & 2nd rd exit. No whining about being drafted to a losing franchise. Missed a season in 97 & the Spurs plummet into the lottery & get Duncan.


3)Bird was drafted to the Celtic bwho had won 32 & 29 games the previous 2 seasons & immediately helped elevate them to 60 wins & the ECF with Cornbread Maxwell as his 2nd best player.


Bill Russll ,Wilt Chamberlain & especially LeBron James(and a few others) have shown the same type of impact when they arrive & leave teams. LeBron James impact is nothing short of astonishing .


MJ hasn't shown that same impact ,but I admit he was perhaps the greatest individual finisher' ever. Add MJ to a bad team & they are slightly worse & he puts up good numbers.


LeBron Kareem & others elevate that bad talent/teams & take them to places they don't belong.
LoL, Russell has been criticized for playing with a million hall of famers'...Wilt gets sh*tted on ALL THE TIME on this form for being a loser, something I don't agree with. Lebron is the only one you have a case for and you don't have to tell me that. I'M the one who's been on this forum during these playoffs supporting Lebron.

But again, I'm grown, and I don't hate on all-time players just to be a hater like most of you dudes do......

And that Larry Bird Celtic team had EIGHT PLAYERS scoring in double figures....EIGHT....But to hate on MJ, you say Bird carried his team.......No, he was added to a team that already had a bunch of good role players...If you're going to compare that to the team that MJ was added to, oh yeah not to mention Larry was playing for one of the GOAT franchises, that knew how to win as well but lets not mention that because we need to hate on MJ...

Again, MJ averaged 37ppg on 48% and other than hating, nobody still has not told me what MORE he should have done.....Pointing out what others have done has no relevance to this thread...WHAT SHOULD MJ HAVE DONE ON HIS TEAM to make them better....Still waiting.....

[3ball]

Zydrunas Illgauskas was named an All-Star in 2003 and 2005 - so when Lebron missed the playoffs in 2005, he did so despite having an All-Star on his team.. And when he won his first playoff game in 2006, he did so with the help of a 2-time All-Star.

Otoh, MJ never played with an all-star during his early playoff career.. But once he got just 1 all-star, he went 6/6.. Whereas, Lebron missed the playoffs despite having an all-star, and only went 2/4 with two all-stars in Miami.

[3ball]

Zydrunas Illgauskas was named an All-Star in 2003 and 2005 - so when Lebron missed the playoffs in 2005, he did so despite having an All-Star on his team.. And when he won his first playoff game in 2006, he did so with the help of a 2-time All-Star.

Otoh, MJ never played with an all-star during his early playoff career.. But once he got just 1 all-star, he went 6/6.. Whereas, Lebron missed the playoffs despite having an all-star, and only went 2/4 with two all-stars in Miami.



MJ's 1989 Playoffs was a bigger upset against far better competition than Lebron in 2007:


Jordan's 1989 Playoff Run vs. Lebron's 2007


Jordan's Bulls were 47-25 and the 6 seed.
Lebron's Cavs were 50-32 and the 2 seed.


1st Round Jordan: CLE...(#3 seed, 57-25, #2 ranked defense... 40.0.. 6.0.. 8.1.. 59.8% TS.. 51.8% FG)
1st Round Lebron: WSH (#7 seed, 41-41, #28 ranked defense.. 27.0.. 8.5.. 7.5.. 54.9% TS.. 42.5% FG)

2nd Round Jordan: NYK (#2 seed, 52-30, #10 ranked defense... 35.5.. 9.5.. 8.3.. 64.6% TS.. 55.0% FG)
2nd Round Lebron: NJN (#6 seed, 41-41, #15 ranked defense... 24.7.. 7.3.. 8.5.. 53.7% TS.. 42.3% FG)

Conf. Finals Jordan: DET (#1 seed, 62-30, #3 ranked defense... 30.0.. 5.5.. 6.5.. 59.8% TS.. 46.0% FG)
Conf. Finals Lebron: DET (#1 seed, 53-29, #7 ranked defense... 25.7.. 9.1.. 8.5.. 53.7% TS.. 44.9% FG)


NO COMPARISON..
.

[LAZERUSS]

Nobody expected MJ's '86 and '87 Bulls to beat Bird's Celtics in those two post-seasons...and he didn't. Basically one OT game, another relatively close game, and four blowout losses...and an overall record of 0-6.

[32jazz]

[QUOTE=Dro]LoL, Russell has been criticized for playing with a million hall of famers'...Wilt gets sh*tted on ALL THE TIME on this form for being a loser, something I don't agree with. Lebron is the only one you have a case for and you don't have to tell me that. I'M the one who's been on this forum during these playoffs supporting Lebron.

But again, I'm grown, and I don't hate on all-time players just to be a hater like most of you dudes do......

And that Larry Bird Celtic team had EIGHT PLAYERS scoring in double figures....EIGHT....But to hate on MJ, you say Bird carried his team.......No, he was added to a team that already had a bunch of good role players...hould have doneg..[QUO=Dro]




So your're just gonna ignore Kareem?:

Kareem was drafted by an 25 win expansion Franchise & turned them into a 56 win contender who got knocked out in round 2. No whining for Kareem

Ignore David Robinson turning his 20 win Spurs into a 56 win contender? That's impact.

Wilt joined a 32. Win Warriors team (no playoffs) & they improved nearly 20 games & lost in the ECF(and for dragging a bad team to the ECF & losing to the Celtics he is a 'loser')

Russell improved the Celtics (1st rd exit) previous by double digit games & won a Ring. That's impact.

The Celtics 2 previous season before Bird they were horrible & there franchise in a bad place. 32 & 29 wins & they immediately win 61. I don't give a damn who scored what . He joined the same team & they improved by over 30 games.




You need to take a course on how the NBA draft works & in most cases elite players fall to bad teams.

MJ's s ituation was no worse than Kareem on the 25 win expansion Bucks who he immediately turned into a 56 win contender .

This is for MJ:cry: Boohoo he was drafted to a bad team.

Like Kareem ,Lebron & others most elite players go to dreadful teams.

[32jazz]

:applause:

Great post and particularly about the draft. If MJ elevated the Bulls out the gate like every other GOAT-caliber player did the Bulls would not have been able to draft Pippen or Grant. Even in MJ's fifth year the Bulls started 13-12 before Pippen was named a permanent starter and the winning started.

In 1985 and 1986 MJ had a SF who averaged 23 and 21 ppg and a #3 option who averaged 16 ppg. What more did the "GOAT" need? Particularly since MJ stans claim you could plug any generic #2 option with MJ and the result would be a dynasty. Evidently he needed that SF to also be the GOAT perimeter defender and he needed his third best player to be yet another elite defender and good rebounder.


Does anyone cry, whine or make excuses for Kareem turning the 25 win expansion Bucks into a 56 win contender?


The only "Goat" I see having issues with excuse making about their inability to turn around a franchise is MJ. No one else . Lebron, Kareem & others usually end up dragging teams places that they don't belong.


I assume you mean Orlando Woolridge who did average around 20 ppg his 1st ten seasons & someone that can be compared to Antawn Jamison?

Or Quintin Dailey & while both were not all time greats ,were very damn good basketball players with long careers.


But MJ paleyed with ' nobody'.


Kareem & others actually hurt their franchise s long term by dragging them out of the early draft & hurting their opportunity to build a good young squad like the Bulls did.

No one cries when when Kareem had to play with the 20 win expansion franchise greats:

Job McGlockilin
Greg Smith
Bob Danderidge
Freddie Crawford
Zaid Abdul Aziz
Flynn Robinson






.

[TheMan]

Nobody expected MJ's '86 and '87 Bulls to beat Bird's Celtics in those two post-seasons...and he didn't. Basically one OT game, another relatively close game, and four blowout losses...and an overall record of 0-6.
As expected...switch Bird and MJ, you seriously think Bird gon' turn Woolridge and Corzine into HOFers and MJ is gonna flop with McHale, DJ, Parish, Walton and Ainge, with Red Auerbach running the show :coleman:

[TheMan]

Lebron carried larry hughes and big z to the finals...lebron does the most with least talent tbh

Out of all the top 10 players of all time he has played with least talent overall or injuries to teammates; besides hakeem probably, but maybe thats why hakeem didnt do much except for those 2 seasons.
Let's ignore the fact that LeBron has also taken a few not so good teams (2007 Cavs, 2014 Heat and possibly this year's Cavs due to injury) to the Finals only to get exposed. If the East wasn't complete garbage most of LeBron's tenure, they'd exposed much earlier like in 08, 09 and 10 :confusedshrug: