Jordan aint perfect

[kennethgriffin]

- career playoff high in a pathetic loss thats overhyped nonstop
- career regular season high in double OT, never scored more than 61 through 4 quarters, kobe had 62 in just three
- rigged dunk contests vs dominique
- worst three point competition score ever
- never had a winning season without pippen
- 94 bulls won only 2 less games without MJ
- paxson bail out to win the title
- banned from basketball over gambling
- father killed over gambling debts
- entitled fraudulent chance with major league baseball
- worst baseball player of all time
- stacking the bulls with former allstars and future HOFrs to rig his last 3 titles
- never won a title without another legendary top 25 player all time ( kobe 2 without another top 90 player )
- kerr bail out to win the title
- push off asterisk offensive foul to win the title
- bogus 98 ASG mvp. had to bench kobe the entire 4th to rig it
- bogus 2003 ASG start. wasnt voted in. begged vince to let him start
- couldnt even make 3rd team all nba with wizards or make the playoffs in the crap east
- fired from the wizards
- gambled for a womans virginity
- divorced over adultery
- beat up team mates in practice
- lost 1 on 1 to a 45 year old CEO street bum at his own basketball camp
- made a mockery of his HOF enduction speech
- lost 500 million in a divorce. made it all back off of donald sterling clippers sale raising all team values
- loses 10s of millions every year from a gambling addiction
- hitler mustache underwear commercials
- baggy uggly ripped jeans and hoop ear rings well into his 50's
- the worst cologne ever made
- got his ass handed to him on a nightly basis by detroit
- got his ass handed to him on a nightly basis by larry bird
- won every title in the watered down 90's after all his competition was gone
- refused to be in video games because he's a greedy S.O.B
- went bald at 22
- overrated dunker that can't even pull off a legit windmill or a 360
- has less points than kobe all time
- has less 1st team all nba's than kobe all time
- has a lower career high than kobe all time
- has less game winning shots than kobe all time
- has less ASG's than kobe all time
- has less rings than russell
- has less mvps than kareem
- has less records than wilt
- has less skills than kobe
- is overrated and only #1 all time by popularity... others have a case too

[kennethgriffin]

http://sneakernews.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/jordan-the-shrug.jpg

[sportjames23]

Last time I checked,

6/6 in the Finals = 100%

2/2 in the Olympics = 100%

1/1 in the NCAA Championship Game = 100%

Can't get more perfect than that.

OP is a loser at life and a liar to boot.

[Foster5k]

- career playoff high in a pathetic loss thats overhyped nonstop
- career regular season high in double OT, never scored more than 61 through 4 quarters, kobe had 62 in just three
- rigged dunk contests vs dominique
- worst three point competition score ever
- never had a winning season without pippen
- 94 bulls won only 2 less games without MJ
- paxson bail out to win the title
- banned from basketball over gambling
- father killed over gambling debts
- entitled fraudulent chance with major league baseball
- worst baseball player of all time
- stacking the bulls with former allstars and future HOFrs to rig his last 3 titles
- never won a title without another legendary top 25 player all time ( kobe 2 without another top 90 player )
- kerr bail out to win the title
- push off asterisk offensive foul to win the title
- bogus 98 ASG mvp. had to bench kobe the entire 4th to rig it
- bogus 2003 ASG start. wasnt voted in. begged vince to let him start
- couldnt even make 3rd team all nba with wizards or make the playoffs in the crap east
- fired from the wizards
- gambled for a womans virginity
- divorced over adultery
- beat up team mates in practice
- lost 1 on 1 to a 45 year old CEO street bum at his own basketball camp
- made a mockery of his HOF enduction speech
- lost 500 million in a divorce. made it all back off of donald sterling clippers sale raising all team values
- loses 10s of millions every year from a gambling addiction
- hitler mustache underwear commercials
- baggy uggly ripped jeans and hoop ear rings well into his 50's
- the worst cologne ever made
- got his ass handed to him on a nightly basis by detroit
- got his ass handed to him on a nightly basis by larry bird
- won every title in the watered down 90's after all his competition was gone
- refused to be in video games because he's a greedy S.O.B
- went bald at 22
- overrated dunker that can't even pull off a legit windmill or a 360
- has less points than kobe all time
- has less 1st team all nba's than kobe all time
- has a lower career high than kobe all time
- has less game winning shots than kobe all time
- has less ASG's than kobe all time
- has less rings than russell
- has less mvps than kareem
- has less records than wilt
- has less skills than kobe
- is overrated and only #1 all time by popularity... others have a case too
All that > 2/5

[Wade's Rings]

Last time I checked,

6/6 in the Finals = 100%

2/2 in the Olympics = 100%

1/1 in the NCAA Championship Game = 100%

Can't get more perfect than that.

OP is a loser at life and a liar to boot.

:bowdown:

[Fudge]

Last time I checked,

6/6 in the Finals = 100%

2/2 in the Olympics = 100%

1/1 in the NCAA Championship Game = 100%

Can't get more perfect than that.

OP is a loser at life and a liar to boot.
Damn.

[K Xerxes]

You use popularity to argue for Kobe against Duncan or Bron... saying that a forum's opinion doesn't matter when Kobe is like number 7 all time on some popularity poll.

Eat shit dickface. Jordan is the consensus GOAT. He will always be far greater than Kobe by every sensible criteria imaginable. Kobe can keep the rape allegations title.

[kennethgriffin]

Last time I checked, 6/6 = 100%

Can't get more perfect than that.

OP is a loser at life and a liar to boot.


jordans not perfect





http://i.ytimg.com/vi/GtkST5-ZFHw/hqdefault.jpg


















jordans not perfect...





http://static.giantbomb.com/uploads/original/1/10709/2265338-its_not_your_fault.jpg
















jordans not perfect......




https://media4.giphy.com/media/F8h2coyFWf2XC/200_s.gif





















jordans not perfect



http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m5d9r5OseA1rs25p4o1_400.gif

[BlakFrankWhite]

Go on....try making a reasonable case for Kobe > Jordan....

And use reasonable logic as to why:

5 rings > 6 rings

2 scoring titles > 10 scoring titles

1 MVP > 5 MVP's

2 FMVP > 6 FMVP

[kennethgriffin]

Go on....try making a reasonable case for Kobe > Jordan....

And use reasonable logic as to why:

5 rings > 6 rings

2 scoring titles > 10 scoring titles

1 MVP > 5 MVP's

2 FMVP > 6 FMVP

i didn't say kobe was ranked higher all time

all i said was he's not perfect





http://www.twelvebytwelve.net/gwh-images/gwh-02919-detail.jpg

[NumberSix]

Last time I checked,

6/6 in the Finals = 100%

2/2 in the Olympics = 100%

1/1 in the NCAA Championship Game = 100%

Can't get more perfect than that.

OP is a loser at life and a liar to boot.
He only played 6 seasons? :confusedshrug:

[FKAri]

Your thread title was correct.

Then after that you delved into some garbage.

[Kblaze8855]

While this most certainly is trolling and much of it is inaccurate, intentionally misleading, or flat out bullshit you did apply yourself a bit and come up with a couple amusing parts. So ill just:

http://img.pandawhale.com/post-30325-clay-Davis-cigar-gif-The-Wire-3Eja.gif


and keep it moving.

[LAZERUSS]

Last time I checked,

6/6 in the Finals = 100%

2/2 in the Olympics = 100%

1/1 in the NCAA Championship Game = 100%

Can't get more perfect than that.

OP is a loser at life and a liar to boot.

Played 15 seasons in the NBA and went 6/15.

Was a second fiddle behind tournament MVP in his ONLY NCAA title his three college seasons. Hell, he couldn't win an NCAA title with Sam Perkins and Brad Daughtery for cryingoutloud.

No...he was nowhere near perfect.

[kennethgriffin]

He's about as perfect as God has made them on the basketball court. Every one else has a weakness, whether on court, or intangibles that made them come up short. Jordan was the perfect storm. Not a perfect person, no one is, but about as close to a 100 create a player as there has been. He didn't have a glaring weakness of any kind. Also LeBron is runner up to being the closest to basketball perfection. If only he had a heart, or the clutch gene.


not even remotely

his resume in the finals is about as perfect as it can get

his career is arguably goat

but on the court he has glaring weaknesses

- awkward shooting form
- no range beyond 20 feet
- limited ball handling ability
- good. not great at running an offense ( pippen did that job for CHI )


kobe and bird were much more polished players IMO



jordans leadership/timing/circumstances allowed him to accomplish more. but he aint as perfect as it gets

nope

[StephHamann]

jordans not perfect





http://i.ytimg.com/vi/GtkST5-ZFHw/hqdefault.jpg



















jordans not perfect...





http://static.giantbomb.com/uploads/original/1/10709/2265338-its_not_your_fault.jpg
















jordans not perfect......




https://media4.giphy.com/media/F8h2coyFWf2XC/200_s.gif





















jordans not perfect



http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m5d9r5OseA1rs25p4o1_400.gif

:roll:

[Wade's Rings]

Played 15 seasons in the NBA and went 6/15.

Was a second fiddle behind tournament MVP in his ONLY NCAA title his three college seasons. Hell, he couldn't win an NCAA title with Sam Perkins and Brad Daughtery for cryingoutloud.

No...he was nowhere near perfect.

Greater than Wilt :banana:

[DonDadda59]

This is so June/July 2008. Didn't know Kobe stans were even still a thing :yaohappy:

You lost the war and Bron took all your boy's shine in his prime. Just focus on getting Bean over 37% shooting in his final season. If you wish hard enough, it just might happen. :cheers:

[sportjames23]

Last time I checked,

6/6 in the Finals = 100%

2/2 in the Olympics = 100%

1/1 in the NCAA Championship Game = 100%

Can't get more perfect than that.

OP is a loser at life and a liar to boot.


Hold up. Now that I think of it, MJ is also

1/1 in the PanAm Games (1983)

1/1 in the McDonald's Championship Game (1997)

Shit, that gives MJ 11 championships! :bowdown:

[CavaliersFTW]

jordans not perfect





http://i.ytimg.com/vi/GtkST5-ZFHw/hqdefault.jpg


















jordans not perfect...





http://static.giantbomb.com/uploads/original/1/10709/2265338-its_not_your_fault.jpg
















jordans not perfect......




https://media4.giphy.com/media/F8h2coyFWf2XC/200_s.gif





















jordans not perfect



http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m5d9r5OseA1rs25p4o1_400.gif
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

Brilliant use of that goodwill hunting reference :applause:

[DonDadda59]

1/1 in the McDonald's Championship Game (1997)


http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/736x/12/40/9a/12409a9e07fb42388941590841c14cb2.jpg

I'm sure Bean rode Shaq's coattails to an In N' Out Burger championship or the Fat Burger Invitational. :applause:

[kennethgriffin]

This is so June/July 2008. Didn't know Kobe stans were even still a thing :yaohappy:

You lost the war and Bron took all your boy's shine in his prime. Just focus on getting Bean over 37% shooting in his final season. If you wish hard enough, it just might happen. :cheers:


kobe has 5 titles ( 1 less )

lebron has 1.5 titles ( 4.5 less )


if i were a jordan fan. i'd be more scared of a 38 year old kobe than a 31 year old lebron next year


with the lakers anything can happen. they have 3 assets that could be swung for allstars and all the cap room in the world right now



its still more likely kobe catches MJ in rings than lebron... even with just 1-3 seasons left to go

[DonDadda59]

kobe has 5 titles ( 1 less )

lebron has 1.5 titles ( 4.5 less )

I'm not following your math. Bron was at least the best player on his own team for all of his rings. Can't say the same for Bean. :confusedshrug:



if i were a jordan fan. i'd be more scared of a 38 year old kobe than a 31 year old lebron next year

Only thing people should fear from Oldbe is him shooting in the 20s next season.

[BlakFrankWhite]

Anything is possible with the lakers....but most probably they'll be a lottery bound team next year as well...and Kobe will fake an injury and bail out

[kennethgriffin]

I'm not following your math. Bron was at least the best player on his own team for all of his rings. Can't say the same for Bean. :confusedshrug:




Only thing people should fear from Oldbe is him shooting in the 20s next season.


if for his first 3 titles kobe pulled a 2011 on shaq like bran pulled on wade

maybe kobe would also be able to say that

but kobe realized that winning 3 titles with 25/5/5+ combined over a 3 peat is great regardless of whos FMVP

anyone with a brain would rather have 5 titles than 1.5


not lebald stans though.

:lol

[SamuraiSWISH]

If LeBron gets a ring this year, with THIS Cleveland team he's played with in the ECF and now Finals ... both against 60+ win teams without both of his 2 next best player trumps anything Kobe has done team success wise.

His 4x MVPs, 3x Finals MVPs, and 3 rings (or 2.5) would have greater weight than pretty much all of Kobe's resume. He's solidified himself as the better, and greater talent. He's also only 30. As Kobe was in 2009. He still has quality time left in his career. And dude was made in a lab, or on the planet krpyton and just doesn't get injured.

[kennethgriffin]

If LeBron gets a ring this year, with THIS Cleveland team he's played with in the ECF and now Finals ... both against 60+ win teams without his next best player trumps anything Kobe has done team success wise.

His 4x MVPs, 3x Finals MVPs, and 3 rings (or 2.5) would have greater weight than pretty much all of Kobe's resume. He's solidified himself as the better, and greater talent. He's also only 30. As Kobe was in 2009. He still has quality time left in his career. And dude was made in a lab, or on the planet krpyton and just doesn't get injured.



stopped reading there

[SamuraiSWISH]

stopped reading there
It's 2-2? Could've been 3-2 if LeBron didn't take such a stupid final shot in game 1. I don't see how this isn't plausible?

This 2015 Warrior team is also better than: 2010 Celtics, 2009 Magic, 2004 Pistons, 2002 Nets, 2001 Sixers, and 2000 Pacers.

They are arguable however with the 2008 Celtics IMO, easily the best team Kobe has ever faced in the Finals.

So they are basically better than EVERY Finals team Kobe has ever faced. And easily better than the two teams Kobe did beat for a championship as his team's best player. And he doesn't have a Gasol, or Odom type helping him right now. Inconsistent JR Smith, Shumpert, and Mathew Delladova. Show some props.

[Wade's Rings]

He's solidified himself as the better, and greater talent.

So you're saying Lebron > Kobe?

[DonDadda59]

It's 2-2? Could've been 3-2 if LeBron didn't take such a stupid final shot in game 1. I don't see how this isn't plausible?

This 2015 Warrior team is also better than: 2010 Celtics, 2009 Magic, 2004 Pistons, 2002 Nets, 2001 Sixers, and 2000 Pacers.

They are arguable however with the 2008 Celtics IMO, easily the best team Kobe has ever faced in the Finals.

So they are basically better than EVERY Finals team Kobe has ever faced. And easily better than the two teams Kobe did beat for a championship as his team's best player. And he doesn't have a Gasol, or Odom type helping him right now. Inconsistent JR Smith, Shumpert, and Mathew Delladova. Show some props.

Bold= debatable Red= Hell No

The Warriors have struggled mightily to score against the depleted Cavs, feel like one of the absolute best defensive squads the game has seen would shut their shit down. Especially since all they do is shoot jumpers. And if they think Tristan Thompson and Mosgov are a handful, I'd hate to see what the Wallace brothers would do to them.

[SouBeachTalents]

He's as perfect as any other player in history, and it's not even close

[Beastmode88]

Lmao a kobe stan reaching about mjs personal life.
-Colorado

[SugarHill]

jordans not perfect





http://i.ytimg.com/vi/GtkST5-ZFHw/hqdefault.jpg


















jordans not perfect...





http://static.giantbomb.com/uploads/original/1/10709/2265338-its_not_your_fault.jpg
















jordans not perfect......




https://media4.giphy.com/media/F8h2coyFWf2XC/200_s.gif





















jordans not perfect



http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m5d9r5OseA1rs25p4o1_400.gif
:roll:

[SamuraiSWISH]

He's as perfect as any other player in history, and it's not even close
Yup. No visible weakness. Meanwhile everyone else had a knock against them on their resume, or their game, or their intangible / leadership / character issues. Runner up to perfect ball player would probably be LeBron.

[CavaliersFTW]

Yup. No visible weakness. Meanwhile everyone else had a knock against them on their resume, or their game, or their intangible / leadership / character issues. Runner up to perfect ball player would probably be LeBron.
Jordan did too.

Quit basketball = lack of competitive drive/commitment?

Pippen almost wins title without him, yet Pippenless Jordan-lead bulls couldn't crack .500

Gambling addict, smoked, drank before games etc.

There's a lot of "flaws" people could find in Jordan's game. They're no less lame than the "flaws" people attempt to find in the game/resume's of guys like Jabbar, Wilt, Russell, etc.

[SouBeachTalents]

Jordan did too.

Quit basketball = lack of competitive drive/commitment?

Pippen almost wins title without him, yet Pippenless Jordan-lead bulls couldn't crack .500

Gambling addict, smoked, drank before games etc.

There's a lot of "flaws" people could find in Jordan's game. They're no less lame than the "flaws" people attempt to find in the game/resume's of guys like Jabbar, Wilt, Russell, etc.

Jabbar: Never won without a top two PG of all time, missed the playoffs twice in his prime. Was the best player on arguably just two of his championship teams

Wilt: His regular season (30) to postseason (23) to finals (19) ppg drop off

Russell: His offensive game, played on arguably the most stacked team compared to era of all time

None of Jordan's flaws are even close to as bad as those guys

[Wade's Rings]

Jabbar: Never won without a top two PG of all time, missed the playoffs twice in his prime. Was the best player on arguably just two of his championship teams

He also won an MVP with a losing record.

[CavaliersFTW]

Jabbar: Never won without a top two PG of all time, missed the playoffs twice in his prime. Was the best player on arguably just two of his championship teams

Wilt: His regular season (30) to postseason (23) to finals (19) ppg drop off

Russell: His offensive game, played on arguably the most stacked team compared to era of all time

None of Jordan's flaws are even close to as bad as those guys
Jordan did what without Pippen and Phil Jackson again?

Doesn't Phil Jackson pick Bill Russell to start a team over Jordan, and says "flip a coin" between Kobe and Jordan?

Ouch :lol

[3ball]

Jordan did what without Pippen again?


Magic had Kareem, Worthy and Green.

Bird had McHale, Parish, DJ.

Lebron had Wade, Bosh, Allen

Kobe had Shaq.

MJ only had Pippen.. :(


You do the math.. It's not hard to figure out why MJ's team required him to be the greatest scorer of all time (while being a better defender than everyone listed).
.

[CavaliersFTW]

Magic had Kareem, Worthy and Green.

Bird had McHale, Parish, DJ.

Lebron had Wade, Bosh, Allen

Kobe had Shaq.

MJ had Pippen.. :(


You do the math.. It's not hard to figure out why MJ's team required him to be the greatest scorer of all time (while being a better defender than everyone listed).
You understand what I'm doing right?

I'm not being sincere here I'm pointing out that criticisms against Jordan are petty, pathetic actually, but just as easy to put on the table as with anyone else. They elicit reactions like yours just now. More petty and pathetic criticisms towards other guys that are all time greats.

Jordan's resume is NOT more 'perfect' or 'less flawed' than say, at least 3 other players in NBA history as far as I can see. Wilt, Russell, and Jabbar. You by all means certainly can pick at Jordan's resume in the same pathetic way someone could pick at theirs.

[24-Inch_Chrome]

Jordan > Kobe and it isn't even ****ing close.

[3ball]

You understand what I'm doing right?

I'm not being sincere here I'm pointing out that criticisms against Jordan are petty, pathetic actually, but just as easy to put on the table as with anyone else. They elicit reactions like yours just now. More petty and pathetic criticisms towards other guys that are all time greats.

Jordan's resume is NOT more 'perfect' or 'less flawed' than say, at least 3 other players in NBA history as far as I can see. Wilt, Russell, and Jabbar. You by all means certainly can pick at Jordan's resume in the same pathetic way someone could pick at theirs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2H0tWN7NaY

Phil Jackson:

"One of the biggest difference between the two stars from my perspective was Michael's superior skills as a leader. Though at times he could be hard on his teammates, Michael was masterful at controlling the emotional climate of the team with his presence. Kobe talked a good game, but he had yet to experience the cold hard truth of leadership in his bones, as Michael had."

Why would Phil say something like this?... Part of the reason (among many others) is because MJ raised Pippen, while Kobe WAS RAISED by Shaq and others.. That's just a microcosm of how different their respective paths were.

The fact that MJ's only rivals are big men (you say Wilt, Kareem, and Russell) shows he's the GOAT.

[mehyaM24]

jordans not perfect





http://i.ytimg.com/vi/GtkST5-ZFHw/hqdefault.jpg


















jordans not perfect...





http://static.giantbomb.com/uploads/original/1/10709/2265338-its_not_your_fault.jpg
















jordans not perfect......




https://media4.giphy.com/media/F8h2coyFWf2XC/200_s.gif





















jordans not perfect



http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m5d9r5OseA1rs25p4o1_400.gif

:roll: :roll: :roll:

[3ball]

yeah, that's pretty funny

[3ball]

jordans not perfect





http://i.ytimg.com/vi/GtkST5-ZFHw/hqdefault.jpg


















jordans not perfect...





http://static.giantbomb.com/uploads/original/1/10709/2265338-its_not_your_fault.jpg
















jordans not perfect......




https://media4.giphy.com/media/F8h2coyFWf2XC/200_s.gif





















jordans not perfect



http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m5d9r5OseA1rs25p4o1_400.gif
:oldlol:

[3ball]

.
In the 80's, defenders didn't have to guard weakside 3-pointers, so they didn't have to be on the weakside - all defenders remained on the strongside and/or in the paint, and therefore closest to help on strongside action:


http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/573113292e852dcb8f5fe242c53e3982.gif



Otoh, in today's game, defenders must guard weakside 3-pointers.. To defend weakside 3-pointers, defenders must position themselves behind the far side of the paint on the weakside, therefore leaving the paint wide open while being furthest away to help on strongside action:


http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/6-05-2015/P5Zone.gif


MJ never faced a paint that was wide open with no defenders.. EVER.. This is a fact.

[3ball]

Yup. No visible weakness. Meanwhile everyone else had a knock against them on their resume, or their game, or their intangible / leadership / character issues. Runner up to perfect ball player would probably be LeBron.


Lebron is disqualified because he can't shoot.. Whereas MJ was once considered the best jumpshooter in the game by Jerry West: last sentence, 2nd paragraph - http://articles.latimes.com/1996-05-12/magazine/tm-3107_1_michael-jordan/4

Also, MJ is on another level because he mastered the "advanced" version of basketball - think of it like a video game where MJ beat the highest level of the game (see previous post for visual explanation):


Beginner Level (what Lebron mastered)......... Advanced Level (what MJ mastered)

open paints............................................ .... packed paints
no hand-checking......................................... hand-checking
hand-off defense.......................................... hands-on defense
flagrant fouls............................................. . no flagrant fouls
no physicality....................................... ...... physicality
no paint-camping......................................... legal paint-camping
less strongside defenders.............................. more strongside defenders
(due to spacing/weakside spacing)................. (due to lack of spacing)

[KungFuJoe]

No player is absolutely perfect, but the reason why MJ is the GOAT is because you have to reach pretty far to knock him. There isn't a single glaringly obvious flaw in his game.

He was athletically gifted, but was also great with fundamentals. He was a great rebounder and passer for his size. Could score from anywhere on the court. You could MAYBE argue lack of a three point shot, but it was more due to it not being a big part of the game back then and he still holds the record for most 3s made in a Finals half (6) and most overall in Finals (42).

On the defensive end, he's arguably one of the greatest defenders in the history of the game. Holds the record for most All NBA Defensive First Team spots.

Then there's all the intangibles. The clutch gene...the will to win. The perfect 6/6 in Finals. The dunk contests. All the crazy dunks and trick shots he would make on a daily basis. All his signature moments. The way every kid wanted to be like him. The marketing. The shoes. The RESPECT.

There may be other players who were better than MJ at specific things (Carter was a better dunker, for example) but overall...when you combine everything...MJ, to me, is the clear GREATEST.

[LAZERUSS]

Jabbar: Never won without a top two PG of all time, missed the playoffs twice in his prime. Was the best player on arguably just two of his championship teams

Wilt: His regular season (30) to postseason (23) to finals (19) ppg drop off

Russell: His offensive game, played on arguably the most stacked team compared to era of all time

None of Jordan's flaws are even close to as bad as those guys

DO SOME RESEARCH...and how about CONTEXT!

Wilt played in 52 of his 160 post-season in his "scoring seasons", and in 30 of those of he faced the greatest defensive center, and the greatest dynasty in NBA history.

How about this...

When MJ faced the Bad Boys at their finest, from '88 thru '90, his scoring and efficiency dropped across the board from his regular season numbers. It wasn't until those Pistons fell apart that he finally elevated his offense against them.

When Shaq faced the Robinson Spurs from '99 thru '02 in the post-season...a DRAMATIC decline from his regular season numbers. How come?

When a PEAK Kareem faced Wilt and Thurmond in five playoff series in the early '70's...his offensive numbers DROPPED OFF THE CLIFF.

How come?

And yet, a prime Wilt battled Russell-led teams in EIGHT of his 10 prime seasons in the 60's, and usually in the second round, if not sooner. Oh, and he battled Thurmond in two more in the 60's. Overall, in his 98 playoff games in the 60's, roughly HALF oh which came in his "scoring" seasons, he faced either Russell, or Thurmond, in 61 of them!

Go ahead and ask a PEAK Kareem about Thurmond. In three straight playoff series in the early 70's...he shot .486, .428, and get this... .405 (oh, and BTW, Thurmond outscored and outshot him in that series.)


THEN, think about this...


had Wilt been fortunate enough to have faced the Lakers in the post-season, from '60 thru '68, and he likely would own many playoff (or perhaps Finals) scoring records. And we are not talking about one or two "small samples" either, but rather, his entire H2H play against LA (and Minny) from '60 thru '68...and in seasons of between 7 to 12 H2H games.

Keep in mind that Russell WAS fortunate enough to have faced the Lakers FIVE times in the post-season in that span (actually six, but in the last one, he faced Wilt, and as expected, did absolutely nothing offensively), and it was against LA in which he elevated his playoff scoring and FG%. In fact, remove the Lakers from his post-seasons, and his offensive production would have dropped considerably.

Here were Russell's numbers against LA in those five series:

'62:

Russell averaged 18.9 ppg on a .457 FG% in his regular season against the NBA.

Against LA in the Finals: 22.9 ppg on a .543 FG%. Which included a game seven of 30 points and 40 rebounds.

BTW, against Wilt in the '62 EDF's: 22.0 ppg on a .399 FG%


'63:

Russell averaged 16.8 ppg on a .432 FG% in his regular season.

Against LA in the Finals: 20 ppg on a .467 FG%


'65:

Russell averaged 14.1 ppg on a .438 FG% against the NBA.

Against LA in the Finals: 17.8 ppg on a .702 FG% (yes, .702.)

BTW, against Wilt in the EDF's: 15.6 ppg on a .447 FG%


'66:

Russell averaged 12.9 ppg on a .415 FG% against the NBA.

Against LA in the Finals: 23.6 ppg on a .538 FG%

BTW, against Wilt in the EDF's: 14.0 ppg on a .423 FG%


'68:

Russell averaged 12.5 ppg on a .425 FG% against the NBA

Against LA in the Finals: 17.3 ppg on a .430 FG%

BTW, against Wilt in the EDF's: 13.7 ppg on a .440 FG%


Oh, and here were Russell's stats in the '69 Finals against Wilt:

Regular season against the NBA: 9.9 ppg on a .433 FG%

Against Wilt in the Finals: 9.0 ppg on a .397 FG%.


Again, had Wilt faced the Lakers in any of his nine seasons in the league from '60 thru '68, and he likely would own at least some, (if not a vast majority), playoff and perhaps Finals, scoring records (and perhaps FG% records, as well, since Russell shot .702 against LA in '65.)

And once again, in Wilt's regular seasons, he was facing LA between 7 to 12 games in each season, with an average of about 10.

Also keep in mind that the Lakers were in the Western Conference, and Wilt only had two seasons in the Western Conference from '60 thru '68, and in one of those, his team was so bad, that he didn't make the playoffs, despite a 44.8 ppg season on .528 shooting.


Ok, here we go:

'59-60:

Against the entire NBA that season: 37.6 ppg on a .461 FG%

Against the Lakers in 9 H2H's: 36.8 ppg on a .430 FG%

High games of 41, 41, 41, 45, and 52.


'60-61:

Against the entire NBA: 38.4 ppg on a .509 FG%

Against the Lakers in 10 H2H's: 40.1 ppg on a .506 FG%

High games were 41, 41, 43, 44, 46, and 56 points.


'61-62:

Against the entire NBA: 50.4 ppg on a .506 FG%

Against LA in 9 H2H games: 51.6 ppg on a .503 FG%

High games of 48, 56, 57, 60, 60, and 78 (with 43 rebounds.)


'62-63: Against the entire NBA: 44.8 ppg on a .528 FG%

Against LA in 12 H2Hs: 48.6 ppg on a .541 FG%

High games of 40, 40, 42, 53, 63, and 72 points.


'63-64: Against the entire NBA: 36.9 ppg on a .524 FG%

Against LA in 12 H2Hs: 44.3 ppg on a .484 FG%

High games of 40, 41, 47, 49, 50, 55, and 59 points.


'64-65: Against the entire NBA: 34.7 ppg on a .510 FG%

Against LA in 8 H2Hs: 29.9 ppg on a .476 FG%

High games of 40, 40, and 41 points.


'65-66: Against the entire NBA: 33.5 ppg on a .540 FG%

Against LA in 10 H2Hs: 40.8 ppg on a .559 FG%

High games of 42, 49, 53, and 65 points.


'66-67: Against the entire NBA: 24.1 ppg on a .683 FG%

Against LA in 9 H2Hs: 26.4 ppg on a .759 FG%

High games of 32, 37, and 39 points.


'67-68: Against the entire NBA: 24.3 ppg on a .595 FG%

Against LA in 7 H2Hs: 28.1 ppg on a .638 FG%

High games of 31, 32, 35, and 53 points.


Overall, in those 86 games:

40 Point Games: 42

50 Point Games: 19

60 Point Games: 7

70 Point Games: 2

High game of 78 points.



Again...simple RESEARCH.

Chamberlain's "decline" is so overblown that it borders on pure idiocy.

A PRIME SCORING Chamberlain SHELLED his playoff opponents, including RUSSELL (post-season series of 28 ppg, 29.2 ppg, 30.1 ppg, 30.5 ppg, and even 33.6 ppg.)

A SCORING Wilt averaged...get this... 32.8 ppg, 26.7 rpg, 4.2 apg, and shot .505 (in leagues that shot about .420 on average in that span) in his 52 playoff games. Included were post-season series of 37.0 ppg, 37.0 ppg, 38.6 ppg, and 38.7 ppg. He also had FOUR games of 50+, THREE of which came in "must-win" playoff games (BTW, MJ never even had ONE in that situation), and included a 50-35 game against Russell. In fact, Wilt scored 40+ in 11 of those 52 games...or 20% of them...including FOUR of 40+ against RUSSELL.

Continued...

[dick tracy]

[QUOTE=LAZERUSS]DO SOME RESEARCH...

Wilt played in 52 of his 160 post-season in his "scoring seasons", and in 30 of those of he faced the greatest defensive center, and the greatest dynasty in NBA history.

How about this...

When MJ faced the Bad Boys at their finest, from '88 thru '90, his scoring and efficiency dropped across the board from his regular season numbers. It wasn't until those Pistons fell apart that he finally elevated his offense against them.

When Shaq faced the Robinson Spurs from '99 thru '02 in the post-season...a DRAMATIC decline from his regular season numbers. How come?

When a PEAK Kareem faced Wilt and Thurmond in five playoff series in the early '70's...his offensive numbers DROPPED OFF THE CLIFF.

How come?

And yet, a prime Wilt battled Russell-led teams in EIGHT of his 10 prime seasons in the 60's, and usually in the second round, if not sooner. Oh, and he battled Thurmond in two more in the 60's. Overall, in his 98 playoff games in the 60's, roughly HALF oh which came in his "scoring" seasons, he faced either Russell, or Thurmond, in 61 of them!

Go ahead and ask a PEAK Kareem about Thurmond. In three straight playoff series in the early 70's...he shot .486, .428, and get this... .405 (oh, and BTW, Thurmond outscored and outshot him in that series.)


THEN, think about this...



Again...simple RESEARCH.

Chamberlain's "decline" is so overblown that it borders on pure idiocy.

A PRIME SCORING Chamberlain SHELLED his playoff opponents, including RUSSELL (post-season series of 28 ppg, 29.2 ppg, 30.1 ppg, 30.5 ppg, and even 33.6 ppg.)

A SCORING Wilt averaged...get this... 32.8 ppg, 26.7 rpg, 4.2 apg, and shot .505 (in leagues that shot about .420 on average in that span) in his 52 playoff games. Included were post-season series of 37.0 ppg, 37.0 ppg, 38.6 ppg, and 38.7 ppg. He also had FOUR games of 50+, THREE of which came in "must-win" playoff games (BTW, MJ never even had ONE in that situation), and included a 50-35 game against Russell. In fact, Wilt scored 40+ in 11 of those 52 games...or 20% of them...including FOUR of 40+ against RUSSELh


he lost to Detroit twice
and magic in 95

and embarrassed himself playing base balll

and the magic 95

[LAZERUSS]

Continuing...

Wilt's "decline"...

Wilt the "choker" in his 23 MUST WIN PLAYOFF games...


Wilt's numbers in those 23 games...13 of which came against HOF starting centers.

12-11 W-L record

31.1 ppg (Regular season career average was 30.1 ppg)
26.1 rpg (Regular season career average was 22.9 rpg)
3.4 apg (Regular season career average was 4.4 apg)
.540 FG% (Regular season career average was .540 FG%) and in leagues that shot about .435 in that span.


3 games of 50+ points

5 games of 40+ points (including a Finals 40+ elimination game)

13 games of 30+ points

6 games of 30+ rebounds

20 games of 20+ rebounds

Keep in mind that only Lebron (31.8 ppg), and MJ (31.3 ppg) averaged more in "must win" games, and they shot much worse in doing so.

But let's carry that even further...


Wilt actually played in 37 "elimination games",...games where either his team faced elimination, or could have clinched the series:

1. W: 53-22-2, 24-42 FG/FGA

2. W: 50-35-2, 22-42

3. L: 26-24-0, 8-18

4. L: 33-23-1, 13-29

5. W: 56-35-1, 22-48

6. W: 32-21-1, 12-29

7. L: 22-22-3, 7-15

8. W: 39-30-?, 19-29

9. L: 30-27-2, 12-28

10. W: 38-26-5, 14-22, 10 blks (Triple-Double)

11. W: 30-26-4, 13-22, 13 blks (Triple-Double)

12. L: 30-32-2, 12-15

13. L: 46-34-?, 19-34

14. W: 18-27-9, 7-14

15. W: 29-36-13, 10-16, 7 blks (Triple-Double)

16. W: 24-23-4, 8-13

17. W: 25-27-3, 10-19

18. L: 28-30-7, 11-21

19. L: 20-27-8, 6-21

20. L: 14-34-5, 4-9

21. W: 11-25-1, 5-9

22. W: 16-29-3, 5-11, 16 blks (Triple-Double)

23. L: 8-18-4, 1-5

24. L: 18-27-3, 7-8

25. W: 36-14-3, 12-20

26. W: 12-26-11, 4-11, 11 blks (Quad-Double)

27. W: 30-27-6, 11-18, 11 blks (Triple-Double)

28. W: 45-27-3, 20-27

29. L: 21-24-4, 10-16

30. W: 25-19-9, 7-12

31. L: 23-12-4, 10-21

32. W: 8-31-8, 4-6

33. W: 20-24-2, 8-12, 10 blks (Triple-Double)

34. W: 24-29-4, 10-14, 8 blks

35. W: 21-28-4, 10-17, 8 blks

36. W: 5-22-7, 2-2

37. L: 23-21-3, 9-16


W-L : 24-13

Here were Wilt's averages in those 37 games:

29.5 ppg

26.1 rpg

4.2 apg (missing one game)

.546 FG% (in post-seasons that shot about .440 on average in that span.)

Keep in mind that 24 of those 37 games came after his "scoring seasons" (59-60 thru 65-66)

Again, a PEAK Chamberlain, from '60 thru '67...and in his 67 playoff games, 35 of which were against Russell, and six more against Thurmond.

30.4 ppg, 27.0 rpg, 4.5 apg, and on a .515 FG% (in leagues that shot .425 in the same span...or essentially TEN PERCENTAGE POINTS higher than the post-season league average.

Now, go ahead and give me your list of "GOATS" who put up even ONE SERIES in which they averaged a 30-27-5 .515 (and likely EIGHT blocks per game), and also dramatically outplaying their opposing centers in the process. Hell, I challenge you to find ONE GAME by a "GOAT" with a 30-27-5-8 .515 (shooting 10 percentage points above the post-season league average.)

DECLINE??????

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:


Wilt

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[dick tracy]

:oldlol:


I think im going to hang my self:coleman:

[andgar923]

Take note Bron stans.....

THIS is how you troll.

Great job OP, Kobe stans still the best.

[mehyaM24]

Jordan did too.

Quit basketball = lack of competitive drive/commitment?

Pippen almost wins title without him, yet Pippenless Jordan-lead bulls couldn't crack .500

Gambling addict, smoked, drank before games etc.

There's a lot of "flaws" people could find in Jordan's game. They're no less lame than the "flaws" people attempt to find in the game/resume's of guys like Jabbar, Wilt, Russell, etc.

the wilt gawd providing some epic knowledge :applause:

[CavaliersFTW]

Take note Bron stans.....

THIS is how you troll.

Great job OP, Kobe stans still the best.
Kobe stans have GOAT wit on ISH

[nzahir]

.
In the 80's, defenders didn't have to guard weakside 3-pointers, so they didn't have to be on the weakside - all defenders remained on the strongside and/or in the paint, and therefore closest to help on strongside action:


http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/573113292e852dcb8f5fe242c53e3982.gif



Otoh, in today's game, defenders must guard weakside 3-pointers.. To defend weakside 3-pointers, defenders must position themselves behind the far side of the paint on the weakside, therefore leaving the paint wide open while being furthest away to help on strongside action:


http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/6-05-2015/P5Zone.gif


MJ never faced a paint that was wide open with no defenders.. EVER.. This is a fact.
I HAVE SEEN YOU POST THIS SAME STUPID SHIT 20 TIMES NOW, STOP POSTING THIS SHIT

[3ball]

I HAVE SEEN YOU POST THIS SAME STUPID SHIT 20 TIMES NOW, STOP POSTING THIS SHIT


It's not stupid, it's true and factual.. So no, I won't stop posting it.

Today's game has spacing, which makes it an easier version of the game.. It's like beating various levels of a video game:


Beginner Level (what Lebron mastered)......... Advanced Level (what MJ mastered)

open paints............................................ .... packed paints
no hand-checking......................................... hand-checking
hand-off defense.......................................... hands-on defense
flagrant fouls............................................. . no flagrant fouls
no physicality....................................... ...... physicality
no paint-camping......................................... legal paint-camping
less strongside defenders.............................. more strongside defenders
(due to spacing/weakside spacing)................. (due to lack of spacing)

[LAZERUSS]

BTW, MJ's college career was FAR from "perfect."

In his frosh season, he was the team's third leading scorer on his championship Tar Heel team that had James Worthy and Sam Perkins. Worthy was easily their best player, and scored 28 points in the title game against Ewing's Hoyas.

In MJ's soph season, his team was shocked in the NCAA tournament by a 24-10 Georgia team, with the great Vern Fleming. On a roster with MJ, Perkins, and Brad Daugherty.

And then his 28-2 #1 seeded Tar Heels, consisting of MJ, Perkins, Brad Daugherty, and Kenny Smith, were stunned by a 22-9 Indiana team in the NCAA tournament in his junior year.

[Prometheus]

No one is perfect.

[raprap]

jordans not perfect





http://i.ytimg.com/vi/GtkST5-ZFHw/hqdefault.jpg


















jordans not perfect...





http://static.giantbomb.com/uploads/original/1/10709/2265338-its_not_your_fault.jpg
















jordans not perfect......




https://media4.giphy.com/media/F8h2coyFWf2XC/200_s.gif





















jordans not perfect



http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m5d9r5OseA1rs25p4o1_400.gif
Holy shit :roll:

[3ball]

BTW, MJ's college career was FAR from "perfect."

In MJ's soph season, his team was shocked in the NCAA tournament by a 24-10 Georgia team, with the great Vern Fleming. On a roster with MJ, Perkins, and Brad Daugherty.

And then his 28-2 #1 seeded Tar Heels, consisting of MJ, Perkins, Brad Daugherty, and Kenny Smith, were stunned by a 22-9 Indiana team in the NCAA tournament in his junior year.


1-and-done format - that explains it.. MJ's Tar Heels would be 3/3 if college used 7-game series.. That's why MJ was 6/6 in the NBA (once he had the necessary supporting talent - just 1 all-star, less than any other all-time great).

Btw, under the college rules of pure zones with unlimited paint-camping by any player at any time, MJ was Player of the Year, over Olajuwon, back when it meant something (when the college game was more competitive with better teams because guys weren't 1-and-done).