Is ANYONE moving LeBron down from the All Time list if he loses this finals?

[Kidbasketball20]

No.


Anyone who does is :rolleyes: and :coleman: not to mention :mad: that LBJ GOAT

[Kvnzhangyay]

Nah

Still 7th all time for me. One more good prime season from him and he's #6 to me

[scandisk_]

If he wins definitely top 5, with top 3 impact.

[midatlantic09]

I'm moving him UP even if the Cavs lose the series. He's been absolutely spectacular and it's not his fault that he only has a bunch of mediocre players to work with.

However, if the Cavs end up winning, I'll have to put him in the top 5 all-time given how bad the Cavs would be without him.

[oh the horror]

Nah

Still 7th all time for me. One more good prime season from him and he's #6 to me



How does he move up while he's amounting finals loses?

[COnDEMnED]

Nah

Still 7th all time for me. One more good prime season from him and he's #6 to me
He doesn't even have to win anything for you to move him up to 6 next year? See.. This is why one would question your initial placement at 7th in the first place. Guy doesn't even have to win and he gets moved up over people with more championships than him? How ****ing swell is that? Life is good for Lebrony fans until you talk logic.

[Kvnzhangyay]

How does he move up while he's amounting finals loses?

Because of longevity? Sure 2011 can be used against Bron, but I fail to see how GSW, should they win as they probably win, winning would hurt Lebron's legacy

[KOBEisBaawlliin!]

Are you idiots zombies? It puts him at 2-6 as the greatest basketball player in his time. Let that soak in.

[Springsteen]

I have him at #7 on my all-time list.

[Magic 32]

1. MJ
2. Russell
3. Wilt
4. Kareem
5. Magic
6. Bird

7. Kobe
8. Duncan
9. Shaq
10 Hakeem
11. Lebron
12. Oscar


You can put over Hakeem if you want, but he won with little help in 1994 and 1995.

[Mr. Jabbar]

might move him from 30 to 34ish

[kamil]

I've got him at top 10. Bird and Magic rank ahead of him though.

[24-Inch_Chrome]

Nope.

[ClipperRevival]

Nope. I think it actually boosts his legacy a bit given the load he had to carry.

[J Shuttlesworth]

Nope. I think it actually boosts his legacy a bit given the load he had to carry.
Agreed. If he was only putting up 25/7/7 and getting blown out, he wouldn't command any respect, but he's putting on a show.

[BlazerRed]

Nope. I think it actually boosts his legacy a bit given the load he had to carry.
You can't boost his legacy for losing.. no matter what the circumstances. You can not dock him though, because he's put up a hell of a fight with a team that has no business keeping this series so close.

Really I see Lebron as 2/4. These finals he has no support, his first finals he had little support and that team had no business being there. Dallas he choked hard, and the Heat should have won that. Spurs were just too good.

But still, 2/6.

[Fawker]

Just very dominant like Wilt but a career loser. bottom line. A true monster though.

[Fawker]

He lost to Duncan, Dirk, Curry

[TylerOO]

Hes moving up mine.

It upsets me because he deserves this ring. He is doing anything and everything right now.

[aj1987]

Why is everyone being objective? This is ISH, right?

[ClipperRevival]

You can't boost his legacy for losing.. no matter what the circumstances. You can not dock him though, because he's put up a hell of a fight with a team that has no business keeping this series so close.

Really I see Lebron as 2/4. These finals he has no support, his first finals he had little support and that team had no business being there. Dallas he choked hard, and the Heat should have won that. Spurs were just too good.

But still, 2/6.

That's why I said, "a bit." Meaning my opinion of Bron is higher than it was before this series.

[Fawker]

top 15 he is now

[Fawker]

top 14 last year

[Fawker]

but not top 5 kobe with 5 rings.

[The Iron Fist]

How does he move up while he's amounting finals loses?
Jerry West must be in his top 3.

[KungFuJoe]

I hate Lebron but he moves up on my list, win or lose.

[Kvnzhangyay]

Jerry West must be in his top 3.

He's not even in my top 10 :biggums:

[DFish24]

If he loses then he doesn't have a good case for the Top 10. No one in the Top 10 has a losing finals record other than Wilt and hes only there because he holds so many NBA records.

[TheBigVeto]

He lost to Duncan, Dirk, Curry

Not a bad list. GOAT PF, 2nd GOAT PF, top 10 GOAT shooter (and not even half done).

[Straight_Ballin]

1. MJ
2. Russell
3. Wilt
4. Kareem
5. Magic
6. Bird

7. Kobe
8. Duncan
9. Shaq
10 Hakeem
11. Lebron
12. Oscar


You can put over Hakeem if you want, but he won with little help in 1994 and 1995.

This. Ish'ers are the only ones that think winning 2 games in a finals series some how moves you from 9th to 6th.....:roll:

[aj1987]

1. MJ
2. Russell
3. Wilt
4. Kareem
5. Magic
6. Bird

7. Kobe
8. Duncan
9. Shaq
10 Hakeem
11. Lebron
12. Oscar


You can put over Hakeem if you want, but he won with little help in 1994 and 1995.
WOAT list. Kobe turds overrating Kobe and underrating Shaq. Shameless.

[Magic 32]

WOAT list. Kobe turds overrating Kobe and underrating Shaq. Shameless.

Bill Simmons is a Laker/kobe hater, right?

http://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/simmons_pyramid.html

[sportjames23]

How does he move up while he's amounting finals loses?


Bron stan logic. Don't try to make sense of it, bruh.

[Bigsmoke]

Wilt is 2/6 in the Fanals:hammerhead:


LeBron isn't dropping any spots unless someone new surpasses him. LeBron can retire right now and still be a top 10 NBA history.

[DaSeba5]

No for me nothing can move him down from #10 or #11 with Hakeem.

[cltcfn2924]

1. MJ
2. Russell
3. Wilt
4. Kareem
5. Magic
6. Bird

7. Kobe
8. Duncan
9. Shaq
10 Hakeem
11. Lebron
12. Oscar


You can put over Hakeem if you want, but he won with little help in 1994 and 1995.

Please stop with Kareem. He was a stat padding loser without Magic.

[Sakkreth]

How the fck can you rate Kobe above Shaq ? :lol

Kobe was his sidekick. There is no way you can put Kobe above Shaq, there is no logic in it.

[aj1987]

Bill Simmons is a Laker/kobe hater, right?

http://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/simmons_pyramid.html
Christ! That list is hilariously bad. LeBron 8 spots above Wade in 2010? :roll:

Isiah, Stockton, and Cousy over Wade? Oscar and West over Shaq?

:facepalm
:facepalm
:facepalm
:facepalm
:facepalm
:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

[toxicxr6]

Christ! That list is hilariously bad. LeBron 8 spots above Wade in 2010? :roll:

Isiah, Stockton, and Cousy over Wade? Oscar and West over Shaq?

:facepalm
:facepalm
:facepalm
:facepalm
:facepalm
:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm



Terrible list
Only part that he got right other than mj being goat is Duncan>Kobe

And then magic32 even failed getting that right :facepalm

[coin24]

Mj
Kaj
Russell
Bird
Magic
Kobe (did more without shaq who became a journeyman slob)
Shaq
Duncan
Hakeem
Wilt
Bran


Wilt and bran are interchangeable 2/6 losers.. Who cares after the top 9 big di.ck alphas. Those turds are scraping the bottom of the barrel..

[MASH Transit]

I can't place a loser over winners, stats be damned. Fools running around here slobbering over counting numbers as if every facet of Clevelands offense isn't run through a single individual. Any great player can put up monster statistics whith such obscene usage, Westbrook showed you that earlier this year. All the while you ignore that he's shooting worse than any top player in the finals, ever. Case in point, Curry took 11 less shots than Lebron to score three less points... And won.

Looking at 2-6 in the finals with one of those wins being a miracle gifted from the heavens through Jesus himself. The other was against the youngest team to reach the finals in 40 years of basketball. Keeping that in mind:

1. Jordan
2. Russell
3. Kareem
4. Shaq
5. Magic
6. Duncan
7. Bird
8. Wilt
9. Hakeem
10. Kobe
11. Dirk
12. LeBron

[triangleoffense]

Around 12th - 15th just above Jerry West

[NBASTATMAN]

Magic put him in his top FOUR win or lose... I have him closer to kobe and top8

[kennethgriffin]

lets be honest

he choked away a game taking a dumb fading 3 at the buzzer

and if lebron even just shoots over 43% the cavs probably win the series

[TheMan]

Agreed. If he was only putting up 28/7/7 and getting blown out, he wouldn't command any respect, but he's putting on a show.
Like he did against the Spurs last year :confusedshrug:

Nah, LeBron doesn't fall in my list but he sure ain't touching top 5 GOAT unless he goes on a titles tear the next few years...unlikely though.

[JtotheIzzo]

No

Only the Stans thought Cleveland could win, so it is a lateral move. We all know LeBron can dominate, the questions were surrounding his clutchness and ability to close teams out.

He is who we thought he was.

I think a lot of this also has to do with gameplanning, Steve Kerr is rarely doubling as letting LeBron run wild seems to take all the other Cavs out of the game except for TT.

[stanlove1111]

1. MJ
2. Russell
3. Wilt
4. Kareem
5. Magic
6. Bird

7. Kobe
8. Duncan
9. Shaq
10 Hakeem
11. Lebron
12. Oscar


You can put over Hakeem if you want, but he won with little help in 1994 and 1995.


Great list. Switch Kobe and LeBron and we are exactly the same.

[ImKobe]

It doesn't affect his current position, which is just ahead of Hakeem at around the 8-9 spot, depending on the criteria

he isn't going to fall out of the top 10 because he did have a great b2b title run and he does have 4 MVPs and great stats, but losing in the Finals is not going to boost his ranking when you have guys with 3+ rings and a winning record in the Finals ahead of him.

pure talent? He's top 5
accolades? He's in the 8-9 range in the top 10.

[stanlove1111]

I'm moving him UP even if the Cavs lose the series. He's been absolutely spectacular and it's not his fault that he only has a bunch of mediocre players to work with.

However, if the Cavs end up winning, I'll have to put him in the top 5 all-time given how bad the Cavs would be without him.


This board kills me with the constant moving up and down of players. We already know what Lebron can do, he didn't need to do this again to prove what he is.


I am starting to wonder if anyone on this board remembers 2008. Lets recap once again. In 2008 Lebron at 23 years old led a horrid Cavs team to a 7 game war with the Champion Celtics. The series game down to the last few seconds and that Cavs team was a lot worst then this one. That same Celtics teams beat Kobe and the Lakers with Kobe surrounded by a good team in 6 games and won the 6th game by about 40 points.


What Lebron did that year and this year deserves more credit then someone like Kobe winning a title with Shaq and having refs go to jail to do it.


Lebron isn't moving for me anymore. I already know what he is. he is so good that you can point him on an awful team and he will still challenge for a title year after year. No0t many playters ever could do that. Wilt is the only one I can think of. You can put him on a good team and he will win titles at least half the time.

He is top 7 with Russell,Wilt,Jabbar,Bird,Magic, and Jordan and its not going to change..Don't know how anyone can against this.

[3ball]

Steve Kerr is rarely doubling as letting LeBron run wild seems to take all the other Cavs out of the game except for TT.


Agreed - and through 5 games, it appears Lebron's maximum ability is about 39-42 points when he gets single-coverage the entire game.

This includes Coach Blatt's clearouts for Lebron - the clearouts give Lebron the entire strongside to play 1-on-1, while all 4 help defenders must defend against weakside 3-pointers, and therefore position themselves behind the far side of the paint on the weakside, and furthest from helping on Lebron's strongside penetration.

Of course, this contrasts with defenders in previous eras, who didn't have to defend weakside 3-pointers, so they didn't have to be on the weakside - they could remain on the strongside and/or in the paint at all times, and therefore closest to help on strongside action.. Being closer to help is the ultimate effect of no-spacing.. Whereas spacing makes defenders help from further away, so they are late, rather than waiting.

[zizozain]

might move him from 30 to 34ish
from 20-25 to 25 -30

[Rake2204]

My company line: this is why I do not prefer to rank an individual player's skill level by how many team championships his team has won.

LeBron James is performing just like I imagined this year, and it's a big reason why I personally never wanted him to leave for Miami. This is what he's capable of, and it's been this way for a while. For my own personal enjoyment, I prefer seeing James maxing out his powers (or coming close to it) while trying to lead his home town team to victory as opposed to dialing it down while dominating with great teams (many of those Miami clubs). James' greatness is such that he can take teams like this and make them contenders.

I personally thought James needed just a little bit of help in 2010, not a freaking cast of Dream Teamers, so I thought his Miami run muted one of his greatest strengths (raising teams up). Similarly, it seems James now would benefit from just a little bit of help this year, too, like maybe his starting wings not shooting 25-90 from three.

As a result, I've been much more impressed with James in these Finals than I was when he won rings with Dwyane Wade, Chris Bosh, Ray Allen, and Shane Battier. Right now, he's dragging an awful lottery team to multiple NBA Finals victories while performing at an incredible level. To somehow attempt to suggest that he'd be less of a player if this Cavaliers team doesn't win the NBA championship is preposterous.

In the event the Warriors win the title, the top story should be the play of Stephen Curry and company, winning the NBA's top prize while playing the type of ball that no one thought could yield league supremacy. But story 1B should be the incredible manner by which the undoubted best player of this era was able to lead a cast in part composed of New York Knicks castaways within a game or two of the NBA championship while averaging 37, 11, and 9. That's incredible.

[hawke812]

How does he move up while he's amounting finals loses?

Bron stan logic:confusedshrug:

[Ne 1]

Wilt is 2/6 in the Fanals:hammerhead:


LeBron isn't dropping any spots unless someone new surpasses him. LeBron can retire right now and still be a top 10 NBA history.
And if you look at Wilt's career in detail, especially in the playoffs where you can break it down game by game, he is the least impressive top 10 player. Look at the other top 10 players, Jordan, Kareem, Bird, Shaq, Magic, Duncan, Kobe, Hakeem and Russell. They all won more titles except for Hakeem who has as many as him but was easily a better playoff performer.

[AirFederer]

As much as I don't like his traveling, bruising, at times beta and non aestethic style, I gotta admit you speak the truth here. :cheers:



My company line: this is why I do not prefer to rank an individual player's skill level by how many team championships his team has won.

LeBron James is performing just like I imagined this year, and it's a big reason why I personally never wanted him to leave for Miami. This is what he's capable of, and it's been this way for a while. For my own personal enjoyment, I prefer seeing James maxing out his powers (or coming close to it) while trying to lead his home town team to victory as opposed to dialing it down while dominating with great team (many of those Miami clubs). James' greatness is such that he can take teams like this and make them contenders.

I personally thought James needed just a little bit of help in 2010, not a freaking cast of Dream Teamers, so I thought his Miami run muted one of his greatest strengths (raising teams up). Similarly, it seems James now would benefit from just a little bit of help this year, too, like maybe his starting wings not shooting 25-90 from three.

As a result, I've been much more impressed with James in these Finals than I was when he won rings with Dwyane Wade, Chris Bosh, Ray Allen, and Shane Battier. Right now, he's dragging an awful lottery team to multiple NBA Finals victories while performing at an incredible level. To somehow attempt to suggest that he'd be less of a player if this Cavaliers team doesn't win the NBA championship is preposterous.

In the event the Warriors win the title, the top story should be the play of Stephen Curry and company, winning the NBA's top prize while playing the type of ball that no one thought could yield league supremacy. But story 1B should be the incredible manner by which the undoubted best player of this era was able to lead a cast in part composed of New York Knicks castaways within a game or two of the NBA championship while averaging 37, 11, and 9. That's incredible.

[Bernkastel]

Don't see why anyone would move him down, tbh

[MEB2kDeez]

1. MJ
2. Russell
3. Wilt
4. Kareem
5. Magic
6. Bird

7. Kobe
8. Duncan
9. Shaq
10 Hakeem
11. Lebron
12. Oscar


You can put over Hakeem if you want, but he won with little help in 1994 and 1995.
My list has similiar guys although Russell for me isn't Top 10, just me personally. I'm young though lol
Mine is ...

MJ
Kareem
Wilt
Magic
Bird
For Kobe, Duncan and Shaq, I switch around at times at the 6, 7, 8 mark. Doesn't matter where really imo though
Hakeem
Lebron

Just my own list though, Lebron still has time to move up though

[sbw19]

Nah. He overachieved and still has his rings. Bringing first title home would be nice though.

[The JKidd Kid]

No honestly he's moved up past Bird for that 6th spot just because of the performance. If he actually pulls this off he might leap frog Magic too.

1. Michael Jordan
2. Bill Russell
3. Kareem Abdul Jabbar
4. Magic Johnson
5. Tim Duncan
6. Lebron James
7. Larry Bird
8. Shaquille O'Neal
9. Wilt Chamberlain
10. Oscar Robertson
11. Hakeem Olajuwon
12. Jerry West
13. Kobe Bryant
14. Moses Malone
15. Elgin Baylor

[nathanjizzle]

hes definitely in the 10-15 range after this year.

[HurricaneKid]

1. MJ
2. Russell
3. Wilt
4. Kareem
5. Magic
6. Bird

7. Kobe
8. Duncan
9. Shaq
10 Hakeem
11. Lebron
12. Oscar


You can put over Hakeem if you want, but he won with little help in 1994 and 1995.

Like HoFer Clyde Drexler who led the team in WS in the playoffs?

LOL at your list.

[Magic 32]

Like HoFer Clyde Drexler who led the team in WS in the playoffs?

LOL at your list.

lol old Clyde.

My list is perfect.

[24-Inch_Chrome]

My list is perfect.

:whatever: :kobe: :durantunimpressed:

[Derka]

I have him in my 10-15 range and this Finals won't knock him out of that. If he wins this f*cking thing, he moves up for me.

[FatComputerNerd]

If anything, I think he moves up regardless of the ultimate outcome.

His performance has been ridiculous, and as shorthanded as we are, GS should have swept us TBH.

I was sure we'd be swept after losing Kyrie at the end of game 1.

[DonDadda59]

You can't boost his legacy for losing.. no matter what the circumstances. You can not dock him though, because he's put up a hell of a fight with a team that has no business keeping this series so close.

Really I see Lebron as 2/4. These finals he has no support, his first finals he had little support and that team had no business being there. Dallas he choked hard, and the Heat should have won that. Spurs were just too good.

But still, 2/6.

You basically just admitted that Bron is a paper tiger and his finals berths are only a result of him playing in a shitty conference. I mean why is he able to drag teams that have no business in the finals through 60 win East teams with ease... but then can't compete with Western Conference teams?

Would the Cavs have even made it past the first round if they were a West team this season? :confusedshrug:

[catch24]

^Good points Don, but he's still a top 10 player IMO.

I have him and Kobe over Hakeem on resume alone

[aj1987]

You basically just admitted that Bron is a paper tiger and his finals berths are only a result of him playing in a shitty conference. I mean why is he able to drag teams that have no business in the finals through 60 win East teams with ease... but then can't compete with Western Conference teams?

Would the Cavs have even made it past the first round if they were a West team this season? :confusedshrug:
When has LeBron ever beaten an EC team with "ease"? All of them have been hard "fought" series.

Depends. You just can't put an EC team in the WC. The Warriors are stacked AF and LeBron on that team, in Curry's place, would've swept the PO's. Wait. They would've lost a max of 1-2 games, TBF, but that's it. Replace Harden with LeBron and you would probably have similar results. LeBron would've ended up with his 5th MVP, 3rd ring, and 3rd FMVP. Lets not act like LeBron can't play in the WC with them loaded rosters.

The Cav's are a shit team, but LeBron is still the best player in the world.

I doubt PEAK MJ would win with this Cavs team. I'm not saying that he wouldn't, you sensitive AF MJ stans.

[Rockets(T-mac)]

It would be retarded to move him down if he loses this series. He played just about as well as one could in the situation he's in right now.

[daily]

I have him in my 10-15 range and this Finals won't knock him out of that. If he wins this f*cking thing, he moves up for me.

This seems right. Some of his fans have him ranked too high but your positioning is right.

Only a total stan will move him up for losing in the finals again

[Kvnzhangyay]

You basically just admitted that Bron is a paper tiger and his finals berths are only a result of him playing in a shitty conference. I mean why is he able to drag teams that have no business in the finals through 60 win East teams with ease... but then can't compete with Western Conference teams?

Would the Cavs have even made it past the first round if they were a West team this season? :confusedshrug:

Your realize if he was competing in the west he would be on a different team right

[ArbitraryWater]

You basically just admitted that Bron is a paper tiger and his finals berths are only a result of him playing in a shitty conference. I mean why is he able to drag teams that have no business in the finals through 60 win East teams with ease... but then can't compete with Western Conference teams?

Would the Cavs have even made it past the first round if they were a West team this season? :confusedshrug:

he kinda IS competing, though... thats the amazing think, no? And he's the most obvious champion on a healthy squad, ever.

[Ne 1]

his first finals he had little support and that team had no business being there.

This is not accurate. LeBron actually had a chance to win a ring in 2007. People forget that the Spurs should have lost in the WCSF that year but were saved only by Cheap Shot Rob and David Stern. Against this opponent the Cavs were competitive.

Game 1: SAS 85, CLE 76. Lebron 4 for 16 (25%) and 6 turnovers.
Game 2: SAS 103, CLE 92. Lebron 9 for 21 (43%) and 6 turnovers.
Game 3: SAS 75, CLE 72. Lebron 9 for 23 (39%) and 5 turnovers.
Game 4: SAS 83, CLE 82 Lebron 10 for 30 (33%) and 6 turnovers.

The Spurs averaged 98.5 ppg in regular season, Cavs defense held them to 86.5 ppg. Spurs had a 12 ppg decrease against Cavs defense. (And let's not forget James didn't play defense early on in his career.)

- Cavs defense hold Duncan to 45% shooting after 55% in regular season.
- Game 1 - LeBron 14 pts on 25% shooting, 7 rebs and 4 assist to 6 turnovers. Cavs only lose by 9
- Game 3 - Lebron 25 pts on 39%, 7 ast to 5 turnovers. Cavs only lose by 3 as LeBron missed the game-tying 3
- Game 4 - 24 pts on 30 shots (33% shooting), 10 ast to 6 turnovers. Cavs only lose by 1 as Lebron goes 2/6 from the FT line and the Spurs win the championship.


If LeBron would have showed up, the Cavs could have won that series or at the very least it would have been a lot more competitive than a sweep. It could have been 2-2 going to Cleveland for game 5 and perhaps even 3-1 if LeBron showed up. Pop had Bruce Bowen sag off LeBron about 30 feet and basically dared him to shoot open jumpers and he did nothing about it because he had no midrange game. While he averaged 22/7/7, he shot 35% from the field, 20% on 3's and 69% from the line while averaging 6 turnovers per game and on 23 shots per game. Sorry, but that is horrendous for a player of James' caliber who was a top 3-5 player that year. He got exposed as a terrible shooter.

[Kvnzhangyay]

This is not accurate. LeBron actually had a chance to win a ring in 2007. People forget that the Spurs should have lost in the WCSF that year but were saved only by Cheap Shot Rob and David Stern. Against this opponent the Cavs were competitive.

Game 1: SAS 85, CLE 76. Lebron 4 for 16 (25%) and 6 turnovers.
Game 2: SAS 103, CLE 92. Lebron 9 for 21 (43%) and 6 turnovers.
Game 3: SAS 75, CLE 72. Lebron 9 for 23 (39%) and 5 turnovers.
Game 4: SAS 83, CLE 82 Lebron 10 for 30 (33%) and 6 turnovers.

The Spurs averaged 98.5 ppg in regular season, Cavs defense held them to 86.5 ppg. Spurs had a 12 ppg decrease against Cavs defense.

- Cavs defense hold Duncan to 45% shooting after 55% in regular season.
- Game 1 - LeBron 14 pts on 25% shooting, 7 rebs and 4 assist to 6 turnovers. Cavs only lose by 9
- Game 3 - Lebron 25 pts on 39%, 7 ast to 5 turnovers. Cavs only lose by 3 as LeBron missed the game-tying 3
- Game 4 - 24 pts on 30 shots (33% shooting), 10 ast to 6 turnovers. Cavs only lose by 1 as Lebron goes 2/6 from the FT line and the Spurs win the championship.


If LeBron would have showed up, the Cavs could have won that series or at the very least it would have been a lot more competitive than a sweep. It could have been 2-2 going to Cleveland for game 5 and perhaps even 3-1 if LeBron showed up. Pop had Bruce Bowen sag off LeBron about 30 feet and basically dared him to shoot open jumpers and he did nothing about it because he had no midrange game. While he averaged 22/7/7, he shot 35% from the field, 20% on 3's and 69% from the line while averaging 6 turnovers per game and on 23 shots per game. Sorry, but that is horrendous for a player of James' caliber who was a top 3-5 player that year. He got exposed as a terrible shooter.

When I remember the 07 finals, I remember his role players being completely open and clanking, just as how the Spurs wanted it to be. It's simply revisionist to say that the Cavs had a good chance.

Also, he was 22

[Ne 1]

When I remember the 07 finals, I remember his role players being completely open and clanking, just as how the Spurs wanted it to be. It's simply revisionist to say that the Cavs had a good chance.

Also, he was 22

Well the facts are there, interpret them as you wish. Yeah, he was 22, but he was physically the most NBA ready player ever to come out of high school and by 2007 he was a top 3-5 player in the league. (Kobe, Duncan, LeBron, Nash, Dirk are my top 5 for '07)

As I pointed out, LeBron had an opportunity to at least make the series more competitive instead of getting swept and maybe even win a ring. It would have easily been 2-2 going to Cleveland for Game 5 and possibly even 3-1 if the self proclaimed "King" would have showed up. You can make excuses about his supporting cast, but they stepped up and were good enough to get him past the Pistons and as we seen in games 3 and 4 vs the Spurs were very close games.

[DonDadda59]

When has LeBron ever beaten an EC team with "ease"?

:biggums:

Bruh, This (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=377335) just happened.

[pauk]

Move down? What? How? Why? If anything this only adds to his resume within the context.... which in this case is epic showcase of impact, making the most out of nothing, will-determination, performance... stuff like that.... Because clearly if he did anything less than what he has done by now (miss playoffs, not get to finals) it would not be as prestigious despite protecting his x of x in finals jordantard stat... jordan himself wouldnt be able to do anything better with this team

[DonDadda59]

jordan himself wouldnt be able to do anything better with this team

You don't think he'd be able to get past the Hawks? :roll:

[ArbitraryWater]

he kinda IS competing, though... thats the amazing think, no? And he's the most obvious champion on a healthy squad, ever.

don, I need answers.... NOW!!!!!!!! GIVE ME DA ANSWAZ!

[DonDadda59]

don, I need answers.... NOW!!!!!!!! GIVE ME DA ANSWAZ!

Bron = Da East Coast Assassin, West Cost Punching Bag.

[oh the horror]

Lebron stans literally rewriting the script in this thread like we didn't just all see Lebron tango on through the D league east?

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Lebron stans literally rewriting the script in this thread like we didn't just all see Lebron tango on through the D league east?

We gonna act like you didn't have the Cavs beating the Warriors in this series?

:kobe:

[ArbitraryWater]

We gonna act like you didn't have the Cavs beating the Warriors in this series?

:kobe:

oh

[Meticode]

I don't care about all-time lists that much, but I don't see how people can criticize LeBron for this Finals. He's doing everything he can with the team that is front of him. The only way this team has a chance to win is one, play defense as hard as you can in important stretches and two, LeBron has to create the shots for shooters and shooters have to knock down their shots. There's no one else that can create shots on the team. That luxury was lost with Kyrie going down. I mean the Cavs just lost the game where he had his most efficient game of the series. A triple double with 11 assists, with only 2 turnovers.

[oh the horror]

We gonna act like you didn't have the Cavs beating the Warriors in this series?

:kobe:



I made prediction and it turned out to be wrong. But winning or losing wtf does that have to do with moving him up or down some all time list, and ESPECIALLY wtf does it have to do with people acting like the dude has some challenging road to the finals?


I thought perhaps the Warriors inexperience would play into the series and for a moment it was true but golden state turned it around.


The two literally have nothing to do with one another in terms of what we're even talking about here.

[DonDadda59]

I don't care about all-time lists that much, but I don't see how people can criticize LeBron for this Finals. He's doing everything he can with the team that is front of him. The only way this team has a chance to win is one, play defense as hard as you can in important stretches and two, LeBron has to create the shots for shooters and shooters have to knock down their shots. There's no one else that can create shots on the team. That luxury was lost with Kyrie going down. I mean the Cavs just lost the game where he had his most efficient game of the series. A triple double with 11 assists, with only 2 turnovers.

JR Swish :coleman:

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

I made prediction and it turned out to be wrong. But winning or losing wtf does that have to do with moving him up or down some all time list, and ESPECIALLY wtf does it have to do with people acting like the dude has some challenging road to the finals?


I thought perhaps the Warriors inexperience would play into the series and for a moment it was true but golden state turned it around.


The two literally have nothing to do with one another in terms of what we're even talking about here.

So according to you:

- the best team out west and in the playoffs would have their inexperience show, therefor cleveland wins a chip
- the cavs played played d-league competition all the way up until the finals, but they would somehow beat the warriors because 4 of their 5 starters, delly/tt/mozgov/shumpert, have never actually been to a finals yet were more experienced.

Must be nice to live in your world. You get to hedge on everything lol.

[ArbitraryWater]

So according to you:

- the best team out west and in the playoffs would have their inexperience show, therefor cleveland wins a chip
- the cavs played played d-league competition all the way up until the finals, but they would somehow beat the warriors because 4 of their 5 starters, delly/tt/mozgov/shumpert, have never actually been to a finals yet were more experienced.

Must be nice to live in your world. You get to hedge on everything lol.

damn

[Derka]

JR Swish :coleman:
Come on.

[DonDadda59]

Come on.

Just 2 seasons ago Mr. Swish was a 18/5/3 6MOY winner.

Not his fault he was turned into nothing more than a spot up shooter :confusedshrug:

[aj1987]

:biggums:

Bruh, This (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=377335) just happened.
He didn't beat them with EASE. The Cav's needed an ATG type of series from him to win it. 30/11/9/2/1, which is basically a triple double series.

[funnystuff]

This series helps his all time ranking, if you say otherwise then your credibility for basketball is questionable.

[sportjames23]

This series helps his all time ranking, if you say otherwise then your credibility for basketball is questionable.


LOL, so Lebron wins even when he loses, huh? :oldlol:

[Cold soul]

Nah if anything Lebron might move up spot or two for me for what he's been able to do with this garbage cast around him is pretty impressive.

[BBallZen83]

LOL, so Lebron wins even when he loses, huh? :oldlol:

The way I would word it is that it gives him more credibility to people who say that he shrinks in big moments or wilts under pressure and doesn't give it his all. I actually believe this finals performance from him sinks that fallacy more than ever, even more than years where he has won the championship.

As far as all time ranking goes, I don't think it makes sense to bump him up any places, but I would think he stays even where he was in most people's minds, cause he definitely didn't do anything this series to warrant lowering him.

[Cold soul]

The way I would word it is that it gives him more credibility to people who say that he shrinks in big moments or wilts under pressure and doesn't give it his all. I actually believe this finals performance from him sinks that fallacy more than ever, even more than years where he has won the championship.

As far as all time ranking goes, I don't think it makes sense to bump him up any places, but I would think he stays even where he was in most people's minds, cause he definitely didn't do anything this series to warrant lowering him.

Well said. I wish Lebron earlier in his career played with this much aggression, fearlessness, heart and guts this is his 2nd best Finals performance for me in his career. This is the Lebron I wanted to see play for over a decade now I gotta give him ton of props.

[TheMan]

LOL, so Lebron wins even when he loses, huh? :oldlol:
LeStan logic...

For me, he loses any argument for top 5 GOAT. He'd have almost the same Finals W/L record as Wilt but without the NBA records Wilt owns.

[Cold soul]

LeStan logic...

For me, he loses any argument for top 5 GOAT. He'd have almost the same Finals W/L record as Wilt but without the NBA records Wilt owns.


There's nothing with being top ten, right?

[smoovegittar]

I won't move him down - but I'm in less of a hurry to move him up.

[funnystuff]

LOL, so Lebron wins even when he loses, huh? :oldlol:
Context is certainly a word you do not imply in your life.

Most people outside of some ISH morons(you) are praising Lebron right now, I know thats hard for you so keep deflecting. :)

[SexSymbol]

He's been playing stupid basketball in the finals freezing his teammates out with 30+ FGAs.
It can't help his legacy, but I don't think it takes that much away from it, with healthy Gasol, Cavs wouldn't even be in the finals this year. They kinda lucked out to get here, and now that they are suited to fight against GSW, they still had a good chance, it's just that Curry is that good.
I'd probably leave him in the 11-12th range, same as I had him before. I was ready to move him up over Hakeem if he won or wins this year, but it seems like a more distant possibility every game, especially with terrible clutch performances like in G5.

[SexSymbol]

The way I would word it is that it gives him more credibility to people who say that he shrinks in big moments or wilts under pressure and doesn't give it his all. I actually believe this finals performance from him sinks that fallacy more than ever, even more than years where he has won the championship.

As far as all time ranking goes, I don't think it makes sense to bump him up any places, but I would think he stays even where he was in most people's minds, cause he definitely didn't do anything this series to warrant lowering him.
But he's terrible in the clutch in these finals.
Even G5 in last five minutes, where the game was decided, he did nothing.

[mehyaM24]

LeStan logic...

For me, he loses any argument for top 5 GOAT. He'd have almost the same Finals W/L record as Wilt but without the NBA records Wilt owns.

he's taken a team that jordan wouldn't have sniffed the finals with. ~30/11/9 for practically the entire playoffs and nearly a triple-double these finals. those are jordan's numbers with the all-around play of scottie pippen.

lebron is basically playing like both guys while carrying a team similar to 80s jordan sans pippen - except he's doing it successfully and not only winning 9% of his playoff games.

goat

[G0ATbe]

Why not? Dont give a fck what LeBald fans say, you don't get brownie points for losing just because it's in the finals:lol .

[sportjames23]

Context is certainly a word you do not imply in your life.

Most people outside of some ISH morons(you) are praising Lebron right now, I know thats hard for you so keep deflecting. :)


So u mad, bro?

[SexSymbol]

he's taken a team that jordan wouldn't have sniffed the finals with. ~30/11/9 for practically the entire playoffs and nearly a triple-double these finals. those are jordan's numbers with the all-around play of scottie pippen.

lebron is basically playing like both guys while carrying a team similar to jordan's - except he's doing it successfully and not only winning 9% of his playoff games.

goat
You do realize that last time MJ took as many shots as LeBron is doing now, he averaged 41-9-6 in the finals while shooting 51% and 40% from three? And you do realize that MJ's last finals are better than LeBron's best (2012) and even this one?

[funnystuff]

So u mad, bro?
If Lebron was 1-9 I'd be a little shook tbh

[mehyaM24]

You do realize that last time MJ took as many shots as LeBron is doing now, he averaged 41-9-6 in the finals while shooting 51% and 40% from three? And you do realize that MJ's last finals are better than LeBron's best (2012) and even this one?

statistically, the suns aren't anywhere near the defensive team the warriors are.
not just that, but lebron's been worlds better defensively, on the boards (~4 more rebounds) and with his playmaking.


ofc, this has nothing to do with lebron moving up the GOAT list with a team similar to 80s jordan - difference being lebron's made the finals and jordan's were knocked out in the first round.

[funnystuff]

he's taken a team that jordan wouldn't have sniffed the finals with. ~30/11/9 for practically the entire playoffs and nearly a triple-double these finals. those are jordan's numbers with the all-around play of scottie pippen.

lebron is basically playing like both guys while carrying a team similar to 80s jordan sans pippen - except he's doing it successfully and not only winning 9% of his playoff games.

goat
Well thats all a given, Jordan couldn't sniff the finals without Pippen. Putting him on this current Cavs team would be disastrous.

[tpols]

ofc, this has nothing to do with lebron moving up the GOAT list with a team similar to 80s jordan - difference being lebron's made the finals and jordan's were knocked out in the first round.

The difference is Jordan faced Larry Bird and GOAT tier Celtics while bron faced jae crowder jared sullinger celtics, paul millsap and friends, and injured bulls.

[SexSymbol]

statistically, the suns aren't anywhere near the defensive team the warriors are.
not just that, but lebron's been worlds better defensively, on the boards (~4 more rebounds) and with his playmaking.


ofc, this has nothing to do with lebron moving up the GOAT list with a team similar to 80s jordan - difference being lebron's made the finals and jordan's were knocked out in the first round.
:oldlol: :roll: :roll: :roll:
He's probably the worst defender in this series, even with Lee getting minutes.

Difference is Jordan played pretty much alone on offense against the greatest team of all time and pretty much the same team the following year.

But you're a blind stan hopelessly trying to prop up Bron for his, seems inevitable, finals loss. 2/6 is pretty pathetic, I'd say bron is 2/6 the player MJ was.

[SexSymbol]

Well thats all a given, Jordan couldn't sniff the finals without Pippen. Putting him on this current Cavs team would be disastrous.
He'd win with this cavs team against this GSW team playing the same defense that they're playing on bron, same 1x1 all the time.

[6 for 24]

statistically, the suns aren't anywhere near the defensive team the warriors are.

Yes, but the Suns made up for that by having future HOFers Tim Thomas, Leandro Barbosa, and Raja Bell to fuel their high-powered offense (led by all-time great coach Mike "D for defense" Antoni) How was Kobe expected to beat this super-team (the first of its name)?

[mehyaM24]

The difference is Jordan faced Larry Bird and GOAT tier Celtics while bron faced jae crowder jared sullinger celtics, paul millsap and friends, and injured bulls.
statistically speaking, the warriors are #1 in offense and defense.

the lebron has single-handedly gotten 2 wins against them. what is jordan's excuse? he was swept against the 87 celtics who were barely a top 10 in defense, and just a top 3 team in offense.

:confusedshrug:

[sportjames23]

If Lebron was 1-9 I'd be a little shook tbh

He's about to be 2/6, so you will be shook.

[mehyaM24]

:oldlol: :roll: :roll: :roll:
He's probably the worst defender in this series, even with Lee getting minutes.

Difference is Jordan played pretty much alone on offense against the greatest team of all time and pretty much the same team the following year.

But you're a blind stan hopelessly trying to prop up Bron for his, seems inevitable, finals loss. 2/6 is pretty pathetic, I'd say bron is 2/6 the player MJ was.

his defensive statistics prove otherwise. lebron is doing everything on offense as per the all-around numbers. jordan? a volume scorer and nothing more. his 6 assists don't touch lebron's ~10 with a weaker supporting cast.

these are facts. no history re-written here :no:

[SexSymbol]

his defensive statistics prove otherwise. lebron is doing everything on offense as per the all-around numbers. jordan? a volume scorer and nothing more. his 6 assists don't touch lebron's ~10 with a weaker supporting cast.

these are facts. no history re-written here :no:
ugh :facepalm
what a retard.
You know you're a terrible poster when other people have to hope that it's a gimmick you're trying to pull off and you're not being serious. Because that's some serious cringe-worthy stuff if you're serious.

[tpols]

statistically speaking, the warriors are #1 in offense and defense.

the lebron has single-handedly gotten 2 wins against them. what is jordan's excuse? he was swept against the 87 celtics who were barely a top 10 in defense, and just a top 3 team in offense.

:confusedshrug:

Wait.. who cares about two wins?

You guys brag about losing a series.. :lol

[mehyaM24]

ugh :facepalm
what a retard.
You know you're a terrible poster when other people have to hope that it's a gimmick you're trying to pull off and you're not being serious. Because that's some serious cringe-worthy stuff if you're serious.

i'm posting facts. lebron is statistically superior with equal/worse help against a team who is statistically superior (#1 offense/defense) to the 87 celtics (#3 offense and #9 defense).

lol @ the ad hominems

[sportjames23]

Wait.. who cares about two wins?

You guys brag about losing a series.. :lol


Right? :oldlol:

[SexSymbol]

i'm posting facts. lebron is statistically superior with equal/worse help against a team who is statistically superior (#1 offense/defense) to the 87 celtics (#3 offense and #9 defense).

lol @ the ad hominems
87 celtics and 15 warriors did not compete in the same season in the same year, why would the offense and defense rating matter when comparing these two teams if the competition they faced was completely different? It's illogical and stupid. And so are you

[mehyaM24]

Wait.. who cares about two wins?

You guys brag about losing a series.. :lol

lebron is in the finals, with an equal/worse team, and has 2 wins against one of the greatest teams ever statistically.

jordan was swept in the first round.

LMAO if you don't find the former impressive. dumb ape

[mehyaM24]

87 celtics and 15 warriors did not compete in the same season in the same year, why would the offense and defense rating matter when comparing these two teams if the competition they faced was completely different? It's illogical and stupid. And so are you

the 15 warriors are basically a better version than the 87 celtics. goat shooting, really good defense and health.

forget the 86 celtics because they're one of the goat teams (literally) - the 87 celtics are not though.

[Solefade]

this is one of the rare times where LeBron is in a win-win situation rather than lose-lose...if he wins, he did it all by himself, if he loses he's carried this team further than anyone else could have ever in the history of basketball...

[SexSymbol]

the 15 warriors are basically a better version than the 87 celtics. goat shooting, really good defense and health.

forget the 86 celtics because they're one of the goat teams (literally) - the 87 celtics are not though.
Ok so you lost the offense defense rating argument, now you're arguing semantics like better version of the team which you can't prove.
No shit they have better shooting, Celtics had inside presences and didn't go on scoring droughts.
5 players on the 87 celtics averaged 17+ points in the series against CHI. They were playing amazing basketball, they got to the finals and if not for the injuries and incredibly heavy load on the main guys, they would've probably repeated. This isn't some scrub team you're talking about, they won 59 games and lost 4-2 against a great Lakers team. Show some respect, you biatch a$$ fakkit.

[Magic 32]

this is one of the rare times where LeBron is in a win-win situation rather than lose-lose...if he wins, he did it all by himself, if he loses he's carried this team further than anyone else could have ever in the history of basketball...

I believe this is the reason is playing well.

Being afraid to fail has always keept him from his full potential.

[mehyaM24]

Ok so you lost the offense defense rating argument, now you're arguing semantics like better version of the team which you can't prove.
No shit they have better shooting, Celtics had inside presences and didn't go on scoring droughts.
5 players on the 87 celtics averaged 17+ points in the series against CHI. They were playing amazing basketball, they got to the finals and if not for the injuries and incredibly heavy load on the main guys, they would've probably repeated. This isn't some scrub team you're talking about, they won 59 games and lost 4-2 against a great Lakers team. Show some respect, you biatch a$$ fakkit.

you never debunked the offensive and defensive statistics. "show some respect"? lmao

the warriors have the superior team via stats. they not only pass the eye test, but also hold their opponents to less points per 100 possessions (what teams average on both ends). again this is the 87 celtics. not the 86 celtics - both teams swept jordan though.

you literally have nothing. idiot.

[Droid101]

Dude, don't bother arguing with these 15 year olds. They literally don't know what they're talking about.

[SexSymbol]

you never debunked the offensive and defensive statistics. "show some respect"? lmao

the warriors have the superior team via stats. they not only pass the eye test, but also hold their opponents to less points per 100 possessions (what teams average on both ends). again this is the 87 celtics. not the 86 celtics - both teams swept jordan though.

you literally have nothing. idiot.
I debunked it, you didn't have anything against my counter-argument that offensive and defensive rating is useless when they played against completely different competition.
If let's say you compare 15 bobcats and 15 warriors you have a point, because they faced same playes, same competition, but comparing teams from different years via these ratings is pointless and retarded, because the context changes. Learn to think.

How come you have no rebuttal to the point that 5 players on 87 celtics average 17+ points against CHI? They were playing GREAT and were playing like the 86 team the first few rounds before they ran out of gas.

[mehyaM24]

I debunked it, you didn't have anything against my counter-argument that offensive and defensive rating is useless when they played against completely different competition.
If let's say you compare 15 bobcats and 15 warriors you have a point, because they faced same playes, same competition, but comparing teams from different years via these ratings is pointless and retarded, because the context changes. Learn to think.

How come you have no rebuttal to the point that 5 players on 87 celtics average 17+ points against CHI? They were playing GREAT and were playing like the 86 team the first few rounds before they ran out of gas.
WOAT iq

saying something without a shred of evidence isn't "debunking" anything. :roll:

until you have suffice evidence that suggestt the 87 celtics are better than the warriors on offense & defense, you are just saying a whole lot of nothing.

the warriors are the #1 team on offense and defense relative to their era. the celtics were nowhere near that in 87. jordan was swept in the first round - lebron has 2 games in the finals with a chance to push it to a game 7. again - huge difference.

[SexSymbol]

WOAT iq

saying something without a shred of evidence isn't "debunking" anything. :roll:

until you have suffice evidence that suggestt the 87 celtics are better than the warriors on offense & defense, you are just saying a whole lot of nothing.

the warriors are the #1 team on offense and defense relative to their era. the celtics were nowhere near that in 87. jordan was swept in the first round - lebron has 2 games in the finals with a chance to push it to a game 7. again - huge difference.
This is pathetic, you have nothing to debunk the illogicallity of comparing defensive and offensive ratings throughout eras.
Compare the players if you want
Bird > Curry
McHale > Thompson
Johnson > Iguodala
Parish > Green
Ainge > bogut
Bill Walton > Livingston
I'm sorry, but this isn't even a contest, and you have literally nothing to come up with without the illogical O and D ratings. But don't worry, you lost all credibility way before when you said MJ was a one-dimensional volume scorer

[mehyaM24]

This is pathetic, you have nothing to debunk the illogicallity of comparing defensive and offensive ratings throughout eras.
Compare the players if you want
Bird > Curry
McHale > Thompson
Johnson > Iguodala
Parish > Green
Ainge > bogut
Bill Walton > Livingston
I'm sorry, but this isn't even a contest, and you have literally nothing to come up with without the illogical O and D ratings. But don't worry, you lost all credibility way before when you said MJ was a one-dimensional volume scorer

lmao @ paper names.

all of that and yet the warriors are STILL better than boston via offensive and defensive rating - BOT relative and H2H

bring something to the table or leave the thread you mental midget

[SexSymbol]

lmao @ paper names.

all of that and yet the warriors are STILL better than boston via offensive and defensive rating - BOTH, relative to their era and H2H

bring something to the table or leave the thread you ****ing idiot
You can't bring anything besides the D and O rating that I've debunked deconstructed and destroyed in this thread two times already.
And those are not paper names, you compare how they did in that year against every GSW player that i've mentioned in this year and the point still stand, every single one of them was better.
I hope you didn't chose the retards life, but the retard life chose you, so at least I could feel sorry for you and not cringe at every shitty thing you say in this thread or others.

[mehyaM24]

You can't bring anything besides the D and O rating that I've debunked deconstructed and destroyed in this thread two times already.
And those are not paper names, you compare how they did in that year against every GSW player that i've mentioned in this year and the point still stand, every single one of them was better.

team stats > paper names
metrics > gospel
facts > opinions

lebron has beaten a superior team relative to their era, and h2h, twice.

jordan lost in the first round, and was swept. once again - big difference

[SexSymbol]

team stats > paper names
metrics > gospel
facts > opinions

lebron has beaten a superior team relative to their era, and h2h, twice.

jordan lost in the first round, and was swept. once again - big difference
There's nothing left for you to say, you're a complete retard. Go compare teams from different eras with D and O ratings again....

[mehyaM24]

There's nothing left for you to say, you're a complete retard. Go compare teams from different eras with D and O ratings again....

there's nothing left to say because you got nothing.
you've literally provided nothing but names and gospel.

respect this: fact >>>> opinion

[tmacattack33]

Lebron's moving up on my list. He took yet another team of role players to the Finals, and this time he some how made the Finals a competitive series.

Only MJ and maybe two others could have done this.

[PejaTheSerbSnip]

he's taken a team that jordan wouldn't have sniffed the finals with. ~30/11/9 for practically the entire playoffs and nearly a triple-double these finals. those are jordan's numbers with the all-around play of scottie pippen.

lebron is basically playing like both guys while carrying a team similar to 80s jordan sans pippen - except he's doing it successfully and not only winning 9% of his playoff games.

goat

What's the point of only including his raw stats? Before this playoff run, LeBron fans routinely dismissed raw stats in favour of efficiency/rate stats. What's changed?

LeBron ALSO has a .490ts% in these playoffs, and is averaging 4 turnovers a game. His fg% outside of 3 feet is 31%. Hes on pace to have one of the worst 3pt shooting postseasons ever.

Why not be fair and include the whole picture? LeBron has had a great playoff run -- but his scoring has done him no favours. Hes been great because he's been rebounding, passing, playing great D and smartly slowing down the pace.

But he's been shooting so bad, so unfathomably bad, that you guys would be hypocrites if you didn't acknowledge it. Hes shooting worse than Kobe ever has for any of his postseason runs -- and Kobes supposed "chucking" is why LeBron fans deride him.

That's the thing with you mehya, you're a solid poster when you choose to be, but you purposely omit facts to further your agenda....i.e selectively using advanced stats when they side with you.

[PejaTheSerbSnip]

Another thing that's annoying is failing to acknowledge Jordan's role in carrying a late 80s team WITH Pippen. Pippen, if you'll recall, ABSOLUTELY WAS NOT AN ALL STAR CALIBER PLAYER HIS FIRST FEW YEARS.

yet Jordan carried those Bulls to 47 and 50 wins, and the ECF.

And also....I think Jordan certainly could have taken this Cavs team to the finals. This is the worst conference of all time. The Bulls couldn't buy a bucket, were without Gasol for much of the series, and the Hawks were also decimated by injuries. The greatest player of all time w/two solid big men, a great perimter defender, a streaky shooter, and Kyrie (injured but still productive) couldn't beat those Bulls and Hawks teams? Give me a break lol.

[SpecialQue]

Your place on the all time deepest throat and widest rectum list is secure.

[BBallZen83]

What's the point of only including his raw stats? Before this playoff run, LeBron fans routinely dismissed raw stats in favour of efficiency/rate stats. What's changed?

LeBron ALSO has a .490ts% in these playoffs, and is averaging 4 turnovers a game. His fg% outside of 3 feet is 31%. Hes on pace to have one of the worst 3pt shooting postseasons ever.

Why not be fair and include the whole picture? LeBron has had a great playoff run -- but his scoring has done him no favours. Hes been great because he's been rebounding, passing, playing great D and smartly slowing down the pace.

But he's been shooting so bad, so unfathomably bad, that you guys would be hypocrites if you didn't acknowledge it. Hes shooting worse than Kobe ever has for any of his postseason runs -- and Kobes supposed "chucking" is why LeBron fans deride him.

That's the thing with you mehya, you're a solid poster when you choose to be, but you purposely omit facts to further your agenda....i.e selectively using advanced stats when they side with you.

Really great post man, coming from a Lebron fan here. Wish there were more posters like you. You can see that he is playing magnificently, but also, not without flaw.

The thing I give him most credit for this post-season is his willingness to throw shooting percentage to the wind, and just scratch and claw to do whatever it takes. But yeah, I feel like his horrible shooting is a combination of the injuries, and him being by far the primary focus, and he is just missing shots he would normally make. He is a much better three point shooter than he is showing, and he also isn't finishing at the rim like he always has before.

That said, he is on another level from before mentally (I feel), and he is doing everything else as well (passing, rebounding, etc).

For the Lebron stans, yeah you can't just suddenly ignore his shooting percentage when you propped it up before. It's abysmal. But it does come with context, that being that the team is decimated by injuries and he is by far the primary focus. So there is give and take there.

Kobe stans, yes he is playing Kobe like with his balls to the wall will to shoot as much as NEEDED. The reality though, is that this is the situation he is given, so he just has to shoot this much to give them a chance, but he isn't always shooting this ridiculously, like Kobe has been known to do in the past.

[Kvnzhangyay]

What's the point of only including his raw stats? Before this playoff run, LeBron fans routinely dismissed raw stats in favour of efficiency/rate stats. What's changed?

LeBron ALSO has a .490ts% in these playoffs, and is averaging 4 turnovers a game. His fg% outside of 3 feet is 31%. Hes on pace to have one of the worst 3pt shooting postseasons ever.

Why not be fair and include the whole picture? LeBron has had a great playoff run -- but his scoring has done him no favours. Hes been great because he's been rebounding, passing, playing great D and smartly slowing down the pace.

But he's been shooting so bad, so unfathomably bad, that you guys would be hypocrites if you didn't acknowledge it. Hes shooting worse than Kobe ever has for any of his postseason runs -- and Kobes supposed "chucking" is why LeBron fans deride him.

That's the thing with you mehya, you're a solid poster when you choose to be, but you purposely omit facts to further your agenda....i.e selectively using advanced stats when they side with you.

The sad thing is as bad as Lebron is shooting, the rest of his team is even worse

[BBallZen83]

But he's terrible in the clutch in these finals.
Even G5 in last five minutes, where the game was decided, he did nothing.

He did have 17 points in the 4th quarter last game, but yeah he has been inconsistent in 4th quarters. But if you notice, he did better in the 4th last game after a 2 day rest. I really, truly feel like the 4th quarter stuff is just him being gassed. He isn't shying away from the moment though, that is for sure.

I have been more than willing to acknowledge before when he has quit/shrunk late in games. I just don't see that being the case this time around.

[Droid101]

That's the thing with you mehya, you're a solid poster when you choose to be, but you purposely omit facts to further your agenda....i.e selectively using advanced stats when they side with you.
lol no he's not.

[funnystuff]

He's about to be 2/6, so you will be shook.
You would make sense if 2/6 was close to 1-9, but sorry man its not even in the same realm.

[rmt]

this is one of the rare times where LeBron is in a win-win situation rather than lose-lose...if he wins, he did it all by himself, if he loses he's carried this team further than anyone else could have ever in the history of basketball...

Yep. He has nothing to lose. If they single cover him, he just shoots and shoots and shoots - go for the high scoring. If they double him, well, he's got his team mates low shooting percentage/injuries as the reason why they lose. That's why he's so relaxed in these press conferences - just play hard - no pressure, no consequences.

It's GSW's fault why this series is still going on - the pressure's gotten to them.

[funnystuff]

this is one of the rare times where LeBron is in a win-win situation rather than lose-lose...if he wins, he did it all by himself, if he loses he's carried this team further than anyone else could have ever in the history of basketball...
Finally, a real fan of the game.

[SpecialQue]

If we're living in a world where the husk of Tim Duncan moves up the all time list for a sidekick ring, then Lebron will definitely fall down the list for losing a series as the best player on his team. To say otherwise proves that you're a c0cksucking piece of shit.

[BBallZen83]

If we're living in a world where the husk of Tim Duncan moves up the all time list for a sidekick ring, then Lebron will definitely fall down the list for losing a series as the best player on his team. To say otherwise proves that you're a c0cksucking piece of shit.

Literally LOL'd on that one.

[sportjames23]

Your place on the all time deepest throat and widest rectum list is secure.


Damn. :oldlol:

[sportjames23]

You would make sense if 2/6 was close to 1-9, but sorry man its not even in the same realm.


Sorry, I don't speak 2/6.

[Rocketswin2013]

Sorry, I don't speak 2/6.
Can I get this in 1-9?

[oarabbus]

Sorry, I don't speak 2/6.

Can I get this in 1-9?

:roll: :roll: :roll:

****ing ISH. Shit never gets old, tbh :oldlol:

[Ne 1]

Can I get this in 1-9?

2-7 in the Finals without Wade.

[24-Inch_Chrome]

2-7 in the Finals without Wade.

You definitely speak a 2-7 dialect, translate for him.

[outbreak]

You definitely speak a 2-7 dialect, translate for him.
2.7 inches?