What would be 93 MJ stats playing with cavailer against Golden states?

[sekachu]

93 MJ- 41ppg on 50fg%, 8.5 rebound, 6.3 assist, 1.7 steals on 45.7 mins per games.

Lebron- 36.6ppg on 40fg%, 12.4 rebound, 8.8 assist, 1.2 steals on 45.6 mins per games.

[j3lademaster]

Inb4 1-9 since no Pippen.

[3ball]

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/6-05-2015/P5Zone.gif


93 MJ- 41ppg on 50fg%, 8.5 rebound, 6.3 assist, 1.7 steals on 45.7 mins per games.

Lebron- 36.6ppg on 40fg%, 12.4 rebound, 8.8 assist, 1.2 steals on 45.6 mins per games.



Lebron's scoring and efficiency aren't nearly as impressive, since he gets to go 1-on-1 all alone on strongside.

All 4 help defenders are behind the far side of the paint on the weakside and therefore furthest from helping on Lebron's strongside actions, while leaving the paint wide open (as shown in example above).

Even though all help defenders are furthest away from the strongside as possible, Lebron is only shooting 32.5% on isolations.. His low isolation efficiency is destroying his overall FG%, since isolations are the thing he does most often - he isolates 33.5% of his possessions, #1 in the league!

http://stats.nba.com/playtype/#!/isolation/?dir=1


Considering Lebron's stats are based mostly on his poor isolation efficiency, MJ's far superior isolation ability and efficiency would enable much better stats than what Lebron has been able to do[.. Also, MJ's stats would be higher in today's game, since he would enjoy wide open paints on every single possession - in today's game, defenders must help from outside the paint, as opposed to already being there waiting.. MJ virtually NEVER faced a wide open paint in his era.. ever.
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[OldSchoolBBall]

If he was guarded the same way Lebron has been guarded, I'd say 40+/8+/7+/51%+ FG.

[Dr Hawk]

45ppg on 50% at least

[3ball]

But the type of defense each guy faced factors into it



In today's game, the paint is empty with zero defenders.. Defenders must guard weakside 3-pointers, so they must position themselves on the far weakside BEHIND the paint, and furthest from helping on the strongside:


http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/6-05-2015/P5Zone.gif



In previous eras, the paint was NEVER empty with zero defenders - defenders didn't have to guard weakside 3-pointers, so all defenders remained on the strongside and/or in the paint, and therefore closest to help on strongside action:


http://i.imgur.com/e5KeKKU.gif


Being closer to help is the ultimate effect of no-spacing.. Whereas spacing makes defenders help from further away, so they are late, rather than waiting.

Btw, even though Lebron enjoys strongside clearouts where all help defenders are furthest away from the strongside as possible, Lebron is only shooting 32.5% on isolations in these playoffs.. Lebron's low isolation efficiency is destroying his overall FG% in these playoffs, since isolations are the thing he does most often - he isolates on 33.5% of his possessions, #1 in the league!

http://stats.nba.com/playtype/#!/isolation/?dir=1
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[BlakFrankWhite]

30 ppg on 35%fg

As the cavaliers get swept

[plowking]

30-40ppg on 45%ish shooting.

[scandisk_]

If he was guarded the same way Lebron has been guarded, I'd say 40+/8+/7+/51%+ FG.

with MJ's hawking skills, I imagine him padding a lot of steals :bowdown:

[Magic 32]

If he would get 60 iso's a game like Lebron?

46 ppg on 49% shooting.

[jstern]

His isolation shots percentage would be through the roof. If Lebron had Jordan's ability to score like Jordan then there would be no stopping him.

http://i.imgur.com/e5KeKKU.gif

So much talent.

[jstern]

http://i.imgur.com/e5KeKKU.gif



Oops, meant to add the quote box to my other post.

[AirFederer]

Given how Shitty the Cavs are right now I can see 50/8/8 on 48% :pimp:

[OldSchoolBBall]

30-40ppg on 45%ish shooting.

LMAO at this absurd range. 30 ppg on 45% isn't even IN QUESTION.

[Indian guy]

40/8/7/42-45% sounds about right. 50% shooting is a pipe dream against the league's #1 defensive team, on crazy volume/usage at the age of 30, when his game had pretty much completely moved to the perimeter. There's nothing in his history to suggest he would do that. Look up MJ's FG% against top 3 defenses he went up against in his career. Barring '92 Finals, he isn't close to 50% against anyone. And in LeBron's situation, he'd be playing with his worst offensive cast ever. So his usage would be higher than ever. Mid-40's FG% max.

[MP.Trey]

40/7/6 on 44-48%

[Kvnzhangyay]

40/7/6 on 44-48%

About this, probably on higher side of that confidence interval for shooting %

[ClipperRevival]

Let's not get it twisted, MJ was the superior scorer over Bron. And given the fact that Bron faced so many iso situations, MJ would've had a monster series scoring wise. I would say at least 45 PPG.

[navy]

Let's not get it twisted, MJ was the superior scorer over Bron. And given the fact that Bron faced so many iso situations, MJ would've had a monster series scoring wise. I would say at least 45 PPG.
Lebron faces so many iso situations because he's a better passer than MJ so they are scared to help.

[Kvnzhangyay]

Let's not get it twisted, MJ was the superior scorer over Bron. And given the fact that Bron faced so many iso situations, MJ would've had a monster series scoring wise. I would say at least 45 PPG.

They would have a COMPLETELY different gameplan vs MJ

[OldSchoolBBall]

40/8/7/42-45% sounds about right. 50% shooting is a pipe dream against the league's #1 defensive team, on crazy volume/usage at the age of 30, when his game had pretty much completely moved to the perimeter. There's nothing in his history to suggest he would do that. Look up MJ's FG% against top 3 defenses he went up against in his career. Barring '92 Finals, he isn't close to 50% against anyone. And in LeBron's situation, he'd be playing with his worst offensive cast ever. So his usage would be higher than ever. Mid-40's FG% max.

Prime Jordan would EASILY average 50% FG against this team if defended the same way Lebron has been defended. Having seen enough of Jordan, I know you know this, but for some reason you're deluding yourself into thinking otherwise. Jordan on a wing at 18-20 feet in a 10 second iso with no one within 15 feet? Jordan allowed to post up for 6-8+ seconds with no help? Come on now...

This GS team is NOT playing great defense on Lebron - it doesn't matter that they were a top 3 defense of whatever they were. This is what happens when people get caught up in numbers rather than watching the games. Jordan would DECIMATE this team.

[Kvnzhangyay]

Prime Jordan would EASILY average 50% FG against this team if defended the same way Lebron has been defended. Having seen enough of Jordan, I know you know this, but for some reason you're deluding yourself into thinking otherwise. Jordan on a wing at 18-20 feet in a 10 second iso with no one within 15 feet? Jordan allowed to post up for 6-8+ seconds with no help? Come on now...

This GS team is NOT playing great defense on Lebron - it doesn't matter that they were a top 3 defense of whatever they were. This is what happens when people get caught up in numbers rather than watching the games. Jordan would DECIMATE this team.

Different players, different gameplans

[BarberSchool]

93 MJ uber alles
- 45.3ppg on 53.1fg%, 8.5 rebound, 4.3 assist, 2.3 steals on 42.8 mins per game.

Lebron after game 6 loss
- 34.8ppg on 39.6fg%, 11.2 rebound, 7.9 assist, 1.2 steals on 45.9 mins per games.

[OldSchoolBBall]

Different players, different gameplans

My post was predicated on them defending Jordan the same way they do Lebron. Regardless, though, it seems like you're acting as if Jordan was a poor passer and they wouldn't have to honor his passing game at all if they doubled him (I assume you're making the argument that they are single covering James because of his potent passing). This is false. Jordan may not be as good a passer as Lebron, but he's not in a completely different league, either.

But if you want to assume GS would play MJ differently, then I would say: 40+/8+/7+/50% FG if defended the way they are defending Lebron and 34+/8+/8+/47-49% FG if they defended him "normally" (i.e., doubling him as often as he actually got doubled in real life).

[sekachu]

Lebron faces so many iso situations because he's a better passer than MJ so they are scared to help.



MJ average 6.3 assists in 93 final and he wasn't even a primary ball handler.

lebron average 8.8 assists while he is a main ball handler.

[Magic 32]

Psycho Jordan vs these babies?

Lord have mercy.

[Indian guy]

Prime Jordan would EASILY average 50% FG against this team if defended the same way Lebron has been defended.

But why would they defend LeBron the same way? Teams gameplan their defense according to a player's strengths and weaknesses. A big reason why teams are more reluctant to double/crowd LeBron is because he's a very willing passer. Nobody wants to repeatedly give up wide open 3's to good spot-up shooters. Just look at last night. GS started off the game either outright doubling LeBron or shading him hard. LeBron picked them apart by setting up a bunch of wide open 3's, that JR/Shumpert mercifully made. The whole defense changed after that. MJ was a different player, he was always thinking shoot-first. It's naive to assume GS would guard him the same way they guard LeBron. To estimate how MJ would fare, we can only go back and see how he fared against similar-level defensive teams in the past. And 50% or something close to it just wasn't happening. GS has all the tools to guard MJ. Great defensive wings in Iggy/Barnes/Klay and 2 DPOY-caliber interior defenders in Green/Bogut. They were #1 on D in the regular season. #1 on D so far in the playoffs and Cleveland's ORTG in these Finals so far would rank dead last in the league. And this is a team that came into the Finals ranked #1 in postseason ORTG.

[BarberSchool]

But why would they defend LeBron the same way? Teams gameplan their defense according to a player's strengths and weaknesses. A big reason why teams are more reluctant to double/crowd LeBron is because he's a very willing passer. Nobody wants to repeatedly give up wide open 3's to good spot-up shooters. Just look at last night. GS started off the game either outright doubling LeBron or shading him hard. LeBron picked them apart by setting up a bunch of wide open 3's, that JR/Shumpert mercifully made. The whole defense changed after that. MJ was a different player, he was always thinking shoot-first. It's naive to assume GS would guard him the same way they guard LeBron. To estimate how MJ would fare, we can only go back and see how he fared against similar-level defensive teams in the past. And 50% or something close to it just wasn't happening. GS has all the tools to guard MJ. Great defensive wings in Iggy/Barnes and 2 DPOY-caliber interior defenders in Green/Bogut. They were #1 on D in the regular season. #1 on D so far in the playoffs and Cleveland's ORTG in these Finals so far would rank dead last in the league. And this is a team that came into the Finals ranked #1 in postseason ORTG.You're adorable.

93 Mike Averaged 41ppg, on 51%fg, against 1st team all defense Dan Majerle, who could hand check him the entire time. Against a defense who couldnt hand check, his slashing game would be even better, hence my statement of 45.3ppg on 53.1% fg, against a non-hand-checking Klay

[1987_Lakers]

No way Jordan shoots 50% going up against this defense and the talent he has around him.

LeBron is a better team player than Jordan so MJ would only take 1 win at most vs this Golden State team.

I'd say something like 40|7|5 on 43% shooting.

[Kvnzhangyay]

You're adorable.

93 Mike Averaged 41ppg, on 51%fg, against 1st team all defense Dan Majerle, who could hand check him the entire time. Against a defense who couldnt hand check, his slashing game would be even better, hence my statement of 45.3ppg on 53.1% fg, against a non-hand-checking Klay

Uh, thats not how I remember it. I CLEARLY remember KJ guarding MJ for LARGE stretches at a time

[edrick]

MJ average 6.3 assists in 93 final and he wasn't even a primary ball handler.

lebron average 8.8 assists while he is a main ball handler.

That should tell you that his teammates could actually hit their open shots. Unlike the Cavs guards, who have been mostly garbage on offense.

[jstern]

Didn't Michael Jordan average a triple double in 10 out of 11 games that he played PG? And averaged 11 assists in the 1991 Finals? Lebron is the more willing passer, but lets not act as if Jordan wouldn't be able to do it if it was something required for them to win.

[r0drig0lac]

Psycho Jordan vs these babies?

Lord have mercy.
this, he would score more than Lebron with better efficiency

[Kvnzhangyay]

this, he would score more than Lebron with better efficiency

I actually think he will score less and get more assists, as that's probably what GS' gameplan would want

[r0drig0lac]

I actually think he will score less and get more assists, as that's probably what GS' gameplan would want
maybe, he probably put his defenders in foul trouble quickly

[Chadwin]

an un-handcheckable MJ?

40 on 50% at least

[andgar923]

He wouldn't be played the same.

He'd be getting more doubles and triple teams.

If the Warriors play him the same way?

We're talking about 60point games. MJ is blowing past defenders with ease, finishing at the rim with more consistency.

Total destruction

[Cousin Oliver]

If Jordan has all the toughness built up from playing against defenses like the Pistons and you put him into the league as soft as it is now? Against the finesse Warriors?

At least 45 PPG. Jordan's inside game and mid-range shot would destroy the Warriors.

They still might lose the series because he'd be playing with the rest of the Cavs but he'd be a scoring machine.

[nba_55]

35 PPG on 43% FG, loses the series 0-4.

[riseagainst]

35 PPG on 43% FG, loses the series 0-4.

this.

[TheMan]

^ Lol at the two LeBron retards.

MJ is just the superior player. He'd go 46/7/5 on 45%. The series would go 7 games.

[Quickening]

People actually think it was harder to score in the 80s and 90s... :lol Take MJ best finals, minus ten percent off his PPG, on reduced efficiency against this GSW defence and you might be close.

I would guess around 35ppg on 44 percent, 9 assists, 8 rebounds. Cavs would lose 4-0.

MJ proved in the 80s how he would fair when he isn't on a super stacked team

[ImKobe]

same role?

35+ points a game are a given, there's no one else on the team to score the points, he's going to drop 50-60 a couple times, especially if the Warriors play small and the pace is high, that's a ton of transition and early offense opportunities, not to mention going 1 v 1 in the post against guys that would simply have no answer for his footwork and quickness

7-8 rebounds a game easily

10+ assists a night because there isn't a Pippen to handle some of the ballhandling abilities

3+ steals

high FG% because he was a better athlete and never seemed to get fatigued, better shooter, finisher etc..

[ClipperRevival]

Guess who has the highest PER in regular season and playoff history? Guess who holds the highest scoring average in regular season and playoffs history? They don't call MJ the GOAT for nothing. There is merit behind it. This guy dominated the game.

MJ showed what he could do if you increase his usage in the 1993 finals. In this era, with no hand checking, better spacing and very little allowance of physical contact and the GOAT is gonna do GOAT things.

Jesus Christ Bron fans are annoying. They just can't grasp the concept that there was someone better than him.

[ClipperRevival]

Lebron faces so many iso situations because he's a better passer than MJ so they are scared to help.

Yes, Bron is a better passer but MJ was a very good passer himself when he wanted to be. In his most efficient finals, he averaged 11+ apg while averaging "only" 31.2 ppg in 1991. It's not like MJ was Melo and a black hole on offense. He always drew immense attention, more than any perimeter player in history and found the open man consistently. So in that sense, I can see them playing MJ differently. But guess what? MJ has been facing doubles/triples his entire life and that didn't stop him from being the GOAT.

But in a fairy tale world where MJ sees the iso situations like Bron did and you let him take 33 shots per game? He would easily have a couple of 50+ games and average over 40+ ppg easily. I would lean closer to 45ish.

[SexSymbol]

If GSW has the same plan to let him score as much and isolate the teammates I'd say
50-55 ppg on 50-55% FG
8-9 rebounds per game
7-8 assists per game
Oh and he'd be actually good on defense not like bron.
So we potentially would have a 50-9-8 series and to everyone that has followed the game this isn't out of the question with the pathetic defense they've been putting on bron. MJ used to score 60-70% of the time against 1x1 defenses

[dick tracy]

40 , 02:coleman:

[-23-]

MJ would straight up shred this GS team, and then plow sonya curry.

[Asukal]

GSW would have no answer for his killer first step and since illegal D and no hand check is in effect he'd get a lot of easy dunks and layups. Jordan is miles ahead of lebron with his scoring arsenal, he's the GOAT ffs. You really think Iguodala can stop MJ 1v1? :whatever:

[FKAri]

Ok my non troll answer:

He'd score more but do everything else less. Net result? He'd be doing more with this Cavs team. Usually I'd say Lebron is a better player to put on garbage teams than MJ. Because Lebron can improve that team in more areas. But the way the Cavs are playing defense and rebounding all they need is a go to scorer. MJ is far superior to Lebron in this area. MJ wouldnt be air balling from mid range.

[SamuraiSWISH]

If we're saying Golden State defends Mike the same way they are doing LeBron? Meaning complete weak side ISOs with no help defense, daring him to beat them by scoring? Considering Jordan is easily the better scorer, shooter from mid range, way quicker off the dribble and a better finisher? Not to mention a smarter, quicker attacker and not being too far off Bron as a passer?

We are talking a 50 or 60 point game or two. And if also dominating the ball as a facilitator as well, ala the 89 season? I'd say a 45 ppg on 50%, 8 rpg, 8 apg and 2 spg is realistic.

GS maybe the number 1 ranked team defense in the regular season but their strategy against James is weak, and it's entirely dependant on Iggy or Klay's ability to stay in front of him. And they've done an admirable job. They've turned him into a high volume shooter, scoring 37 ppg on 40%.

Wouldn't be that simple against Jordan because he's such a superior scorer either shooting, posting up, or a way quicker ability to blow by his man defender. It would force GS to change.their strategy, most likely double or triple teaming.

[Jacks3]

MJ against the type of small-ball lineups GS is running? MJ against the " rim protection' of guys who are around 6'8? :oldlol:

He would destroy. 44-45 PPG on much better efficiency than LeBron.

[tpols]

First three peat jordan? 43/8/7.. 51FG. Much better clutch numbers as well

Other Cleveland teammates collect easy defensive rebounds lebron usually collects. Very slightly less playmaking but higher volume and efficiency scoring especially in 4th to close games. Imo

[3ball]

Lebron faces so many iso situations because he's a better passer than MJ so they are scared to help.


The reason the Warriors are not double-teaming is because Lebron is shooting 39% and taking 34 shots to get 36 points every game.. THAT'S why they're letting him isolate all day and not double-teaming..

34 shots to get 36 points is bad offense by any measure but fans/media are overlooking it.. However, Lebron is getting 12 boards like a big man.. I'll give him that.. But he's probably taking boards away from his very capable bigs tbh.
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[nashwade]

MJ would have taken the series 4-1

LBJ has no killer instinct

[ClipperRevival]

The reason the Warriors are not double-teaming is because Lebron is shooting 39% and taking 34 shots to get 36 points every game.. THAT'S why they're letting him isolate all day and not double-teaming..

34 shots to get 36 points is bad offense by any measure but fans/media are overlooking it.. Lebron is getting 12 boards like a big man.. I'll give him that.. But he's probably taking boards away from his very capable bigs.
.

I think this series proved that Bron is not an all time great, PURE scorer. Sure, he is around 5th all time in ppg with 27+ per game but he gets his points through various ways within the flow of the game. But tell him to shoot 33 times a game and see what you can do, and we are seeing the results. An amazingly well rounded player who can impact the game in many ways but when it comes down to simply taking over offensively, he isn't up there with some of the best scorers ever.

Even Kobe never came close to taking 33 shots per game in a playoff series. You give a guy like that that many shots and he is more than likely to reach 50 points in several games. And we saw what MJ can do in 1993. 41ppg on 50+% shooting.