Will LeBron match Wilt's coveted 2/6 mark?

[Ne 1]

For decades the league has been waiting and NBA fans have been asking.... Will we ever see another Wilt Chamberlain? People originally thought, nobody, but flash forward to June, 16th, 2015 and we have another anomaly of biology, a freak of nature by the name of LeBron Raymone James, now just one game away later today from matching the historic 2/6 mark left by the Big Dipper.


http://s1.postimg.org/w7vqd9ylr/image.jpg

[Ne 1]

Mikan 7/7, Russell 11/11, Shaq 4/6, KAJ 6/10, Hakeem 2/3, Wilt 2/6

One is not like the others

[zoom17]

Makes this thread when it's 3-2 and not 2-2 or 2-1 agenda detected.

[plowking]

Mikan 7/7, Russell 11/11, Shaq 4/6, KAJ 6/10, Hakeem 2/3, Wilt 2/6

One is not like the others

Wilt is better than every single one of those players on that list.

You think comparing Bron to Wilt is some kind of insult?

[BBallZen83]

Probably. :confusedshrug:

Context mean anything?

[oarabbus]

Wilt is better than every single one of those players on that list.

You think comparing Bron to Wilt is some kind of insult?

:oldlol:

This, at the end of the day, as much as we give Wiltstans shit for mountain lion stories, Wilt was still a legend.

[Ne 1]

Wilt is better than every single one of those players on that list.



Disagree. People look at Wilt's stats and rank him as a GOAT candidate without looking at pace and minutes and with a heavy emphasis on regular season stats. If you look at his career in detail, especially in the playoffs where you can break it down game by game, he is the least impressive top 10 player. You also need to have a decent perspective on some of these numbers, can't just look at 30 rebounds and say "mind blowing game" when games had 150+ rebounds available. The main argument for him being top 5 is regular season stats, but that's flawed. Aside from playing in blowouts, this is a guy who was known to check the stat sheet at halftime and he was even known to have passed up easy shots to prove he could lead the league in assists in 1968.

Basketball is about winning and the greats were expected to raise their games in the playoffs. Look at the other top 10 players, Jordan, Kareem, Bird, Shaq, Magic, Duncan, Kobe, Hakeem and Russell. They all won more titles than Wilt except for Hakeem who has as many and was easily a better playoff performer. None of them choked to the extent Wilt did in '68 or '69 and none of them had so many series where they played below their standard and lost, yeah, they all had some, but not as many as Wilt. And picture any of them in their prime, when healthy, much less playing every game, leading a team to a record of 31-49 or even 11-33 midway through the season like Wilt did before being traded in 1965.

[bail]

what are the finals record of mj and kobe?

[Ne 1]

:oldlol:

This, at the end of the day, as much as we give Wiltstans shit for mountain lion stories, Wilt was still a legend.

Yes, he's a legend, but very overrated once you look at his entire playoff career game by game and realize how much he stat-padded in blowouts. I don't consider him a top 5 player but there is no denying he is top 10 due to his impact on the evolution of the league and his peak (1967).

[Ne 1]

what are the finals record of mj and kobe?

Jordan: 6/6

Bryant: 5/7

[24-Inch_Chrome]

Mikan 7/7, Russell 11/11, Shaq 4/6, KAJ 6/10, Hakeem 2/3, Wilt 2/6

One is not like the others

So you're saying it's better to make 3 finals than make 6? Winning in the finals > making the finals > not making the finals.

[Ne 1]

So you're saying it's better to make 3 finals than make 6? Winning in the finals > making the finals > not making the finals.

Losing more often than not at any level is unacceptable. The way I look at it: if you're good enough to make it to the Finals, you're good enough to win it all.

If you make 10 first rounds, you should win atleast 6

of the 6 times you make the 2nd round. you should win at least 4

of the 4 times you make the 3rd round. you should win at least 3

of the 3 times you make the finals. you should win at least 2

There is no excuse for losing more often than you win at any level.

So yes, it is much much much more impressive to make the finals and lose than lose in the 1st round, but that does not change the fact that you should have a winning record at every level. Especially if you're getting to that level a bunch of times.

[24-Inch_Chrome]

http://img.pandawhale.com/80458-Im-Out-George-Costanza-Seinfel-HAqL.gif

[plowking]

Losing more often than not at any level is unacceptable. The way I look at it: if you're good enough to make it to the Finals, you're good enough to win it all.

If you make 10 first rounds, you should win atleast 6

of the 6 times you make the 2nd round. you should win at least 4

of the 4 times you make the 3rd round. you should win at least 3

of the 3 times you make the finals. you should win at least 2

There is no excuse for losing more often than you win at any level.

So yes, it is much much much more impressive to make the finals and lose than lose in the 1st round, but that does not change the fact that you should have a winning record at every level. Especially if you're getting to that level a bunch of times.

So you ask for context in your last two posts, yet you put out a generic answer like this completely ignoring context.

Eh, boring.

[Sarcastic]

This might make the "backfire" thread.

[LBJ 23]

OP Lebron is better than Kobe ever was, deal with it. You can make thousands of threads with similar agenda and it won't change the fact that Lebron is better at basketball than Kobe ever was :oldlol:

[Psileas]

Wilt is better than every single one of those players on that list.

This and, please, OP, stop pretending that if we add some type of selective context, we won't be able to find arguments to lessen every single of these players, too. At the end of the day, applying the competition adjustment, not only was Wilt either superior or comparable as a playoff performer to these players, he was also not anywhere near the playoff underperformer he seems to be even when we compare his playoff stats to his own regular season stats (gee, I thought you didn't believe in rough stats :rolleyes: ).

[LAZERUSS]

Disagree. People look at Wilt's stats and rank him as a GOAT candidate without looking at pace and minutes and with a heavy emphasis on regular season stats. If you look at his career in detail, especially in the playoffs where you can break it down game by game, he is the least impressive top 10 player. You also need to have a decent perspective on some of these numbers, can't just look at 30 rebounds and say "mind blowing game" when games had 150+ rebounds available. The main argument for him being top 5 is regular season stats, but that's flawed. Aside from playing in blowouts, this is a guy who was known to check the stat sheet at halftime and he was even known to have passed up easy shots to prove he could lead the league in assists in 1968.

Basketball is about winning and the greats were expected to raise their games in the playoffs. Look at the other top 10 players, Jordan, Kareem, Bird, Shaq, Magic, Duncan, Kobe, Hakeem and Russell. They all won more titles than Wilt except for Hakeem who has as many and was easily a better playoff performer. None of them choked to the extent Wilt did in '68 or '69 and none of them had so many series where they played below their standard and lost, yeah, they all had some, but not as many as Wilt. And picture any of them in their prime, when healthy, much less playing every game, leading a team to a record of 31-49 or even 11-33 midway through the season like Wilt did before being traded in 1965.

Simple question...

swap rosters and coaches with Russell in the decade of the 60's, and you tell us all here how many rings each win.

For instance, observers have been claiming just how bad Lebron's supporting cast is in this year's Finals. I would argue that Wilt's '64 cast was, BY FAR, the worst in Finals history. Not only that, but they played even worse in the Finals. In the meantime, Russell had SEVEN HOF teammates on his '64 squad, and of course, they just murdered Wilt's teammates in the Finals.

Go ahead...and give us your wisdom in this.

[SpecialQue]

Russell 11/11, Wilt 2/6

Gee, I wonder if those two are somehow related.

[Asukal]

Simple question...

swap rosters and coaches with Russell in the decade of the 60's, and you tell us all here how many rings each win.

For instance, observers have been claiming just how bad Lebron's supporting cast is in this year's Finals. I would argue that Wilt's '64 cast was, BY FAR, the worst in Finals history. Not only that, but they played even worse in the Finals. In the meantime, Russell had SEVEN HOF teammates on his '64 squad, and of course, they just murdered Wilt's teammates in the Finals.

Go ahead...and give us your wisdom in this.

Simple answer.... You can't. :rolleyes:

Reality = Russell 11 rings >>>>>>> Wilt 2 rings/30>22>18

:roll: :oldlol: :lol

[Prometheus]

Losing more often than not at any level is unacceptable. The way I look at it: if you're good enough to make it to the Finals, you're good enough to win it all.

If you make 10 first rounds, you should win atleast 6

of the 6 times you make the 2nd round. you should win at least 4

of the 4 times you make the 3rd round. you should win at least 3

of the 3 times you make the finals. you should win at least 2

There is no excuse for losing more often than you win at any level.

So yes, it is much much much more impressive to make the finals and lose than lose in the 1st round, but that does not change the fact that you should have a winning record at every level. Especially if you're getting to that level a bunch of times.

Well there you go. You're looking at it wrong.

[branslowski]

OP Lebron is better than Kobe ever was, deal with it. You can make thousands of threads with similar agenda and it won't change the fact that Lebron is better at basketball than Kobe ever was :oldlol:

Kobe more All-NBA Teams, All-Defensive Teams, All-Star teams, more 40,50,60pt games, More All-Time points, More All-Time playoff points, More All-Time playoff stls More titles with same number of finals MVPs.

Bron more regular season MVPs than Kobe just like Nash..


Don't lie to yourself.

Sponsored by 2/6

[Prometheus]

Kobe more All-NBA Teams, All-Defensive Teams, All-Star teams, more 40,50,60pt games, More All-Time points, More All-Time playoff points, More All-Time playoff stls

Comparing longevity stats when one career is twice as long as the other :facepalm

[LAZERUSS]

Disagree. People look at Wilt's stats and rank him as a GOAT candidate without looking at pace and minutes and with a heavy emphasis on regular season stats. If you look at his career in detail, especially in the playoffs where you can break it down game by game, he is the least impressive top 10 player. You also need to have a decent perspective on some of these numbers, can't just look at 30 rebounds and say "mind blowing game" when games had 150+ rebounds available. The main argument for him being top 5 is regular season stats, but that's flawed. Aside from playing in blowouts, this is a guy who was known to check the stat sheet at halftime and he was even known to have passed up easy shots to prove he could lead the league in assists in 1968.

Basketball is about winning and the greats were expected to raise their games in the playoffs. Look at the other top 10 players, Jordan, Kareem, Bird, Shaq, Magic, Duncan, Kobe, Hakeem and Russell. They all won more titles than Wilt except for Hakeem who has as many and was easily a better playoff performer. None of them choked to the extent Wilt did in '68 or '69 and none of them had so many series where they played below their standard and lost, yeah, they all had some, but not as many as Wilt. And picture any of them in their prime, when healthy, much less playing every game, leading a team to a record of 31-49 or even 11-33 midway through the season like Wilt did before being traded in 1965.


Interesting...please explain this to all of us here...

Jordan: 1-9 in his first ten playoff games, and a losing playoff record in his first six seasons. Then, he couldn't take a roster that had gone 55-27 the year before, and who were an eyelash away from winning a title...past the second round, and the team that wiped them out, was swept in the Finals by a 47-35 team? Hell, he won his last three rinsg shooting .455, .427, and even .415 in the Finals.

Kareem? In his PRIME TEN SEASONS...ONE ring; only TWO Finals; lost in that second Finals in a blowout on his home floor, and in a game in which he was outplayed by a 6-9 red-head; was swept in a WCF with HCA; lost in the first round with HCA, on a 60-22 team that was wiped out by a 47-35 team, and in a series in which he shot .428; was blown out twice with far more talented rosters to a Sonics team that had one borderline HOF player; and missed the playoffs two straight seasons with losing records. Then, he was crushed by Moses and his 40-42 Rockets in the first round of the '81 playoffs; lost a seven game series in '84 that his team should have won; won a ring as a third wheel in '87; and disgracefully won his final ring with what was the worst Finals performance by "GOAT" of all-time.

Bird? You mean the Bird that played with HOF stacked rosters his entire career, and won ONE more ring than Wilt? The Bird that was carried by Cedric Maxwell in the '81 Finals, in a horrific series in which he averaged 15 ppg on a .419 FG%? The Bird who was swept with HCA in '83? The Bird who was a second wheel in Finals losses in both '85 and '87? The Bird who took his favored Celts down in flames against the Pistons in '88, and in a series in which he shot ... get this... .351? The same Bird who lost SEVEN times with HCA, and played miserably in several of them?

Shaq? You mean the Shaq who put up a 22-11 .492 series against Ostertag, in a 4-1 series loss? The same Shaq who carried his team to SIX sweeping losses in the post-season, and was a Kobe miracle shot away from SEVEN?

Duncan? The same Duncan who was badly outplayed by Marc Goobersol in a series in which he lost with HCA? The same Duncan who cost his team the series in '13 with a blown wide-open layup? The same Duncan who repeatedly choked in the 4th quarters against Shaq in '01, '02, '04, and even in '03 when he finally beat him?

Kobe? You mean the Kobe, who is unquestionably the WORST FINALS performer by a Top-10 player in NBA history? The same Kobe who COST his teams rings in '04 and '08 with two of the worst Finals performances ever, and who did all he could to lose a ring in game seven in '10?

Russell? The same Russell who was BATTERED by Chamberlain in ALL EIGHT of their post-season H2H's, and when he faced a Wilt with an equal supporting cast, watched helplessly as Chamberlain destroyed he and his eight time defending champs in a near sweep?

Hakeem? :roll: :roll: :roll: The same Hakeem who could only go to THREE Finals in his 18 seasons? The same Hakeem who couldn't win with Pippen and Barkley (and couldn't even make the Finals); the same Hakeem who carrled his team down in flames in EIGHT FIRST ROUNDS...almost all of which were blowouts? The same Hakeem, who won one ring in a season in which the best player in the league took the year off? The same Hakeem who won a second ring in a series in which a young Shaq outplayed him, but was saved by his teammates? :roll: :roll: :roll:

Wilt's teams were at least losing to legendary teams, and not average teams comprised of no-names.

[LEFT4DEAD]

Interesting...please explain this to all of us here...

Jordan: 1-9 in his first ten playoff games, and a losing playoff record in his first six seasons. Then, he couldn't take a roster that had gone 55-27 the year before, and who were an eyelash away from winning a title...past the second, and the team that wiped them out, was swept in the Finals by a 47-35 team?

Kareem? In his PRIME TEN SEASONS...ONE ring; only TWO Finals; lost in that second Finals in a blowout on his home floor, and in a game in which he was outplayed by a 6-9 red-head; was swept in a WCF with HCA; lost in the first round with HCA, on a 60-22 team that was wiped out by a 47-35 team, and in a series in which he shot .428; was blown out twice with far more talented rosters to a Sonics team that had one borderline HOF player; and missed the playoffs two straight seasons with losing records. Then, he was crushed by Moses and his 40-42 Rockets in the first round of the '81 playoffs; lost a seven game series in '84 that his team should have won; won a ring as a third wheel in '87; and disgracefully won his final ring with what was the worst Finals performance by "GOAT" of all-time.

Bird? You mean the Bird that played with HOF stacked rosters his entire career, and won ONE more ring than Wilt? The Bird that was carried by Cedric Maxwell in the '81 Finals, in a horrific series in which he averaged 15 ppg on a .419 FG%? The Bird who was swept with HCA in '83? The Bird who was a second wheel in Finals losses in both '85 and '87? The Bird who took his favored Celts down in flames against the Pistons in '88, and in a series in which he shot ... get this... .351?

Shaq? You mean the Shaq who put up a 22-11 .492 series against Ostertag, in a 4-1 series loss? The same Shaq who carried his team to SIX sweeping losses in the post-season, and was a Kobe miracle shot away from SEVEN?

Duncan? The same Duncan who was badly outplayed by Marc Goobersol in a series in which he lost with HCA? The same Duncan who cost his team the series in '13 with a blown wide-open layup? The same Duncan who repeatedly choked in the 4th quarters against Shaq in '01, '02, '04, and even in '03 when he finally beat him?

Kobe? You mean the Kobe, who is unquestionably the WORST FINALS performer by a Top-10 player in NBA history? The same Kobe who COST his teams rings in '04 and '08 with two of the worst Finals performances ever, and who did all he could to lose a ring in game seven in '10?

Russell? The same Russell who was BATTERED by Chamberlain in ALL EIGHT of their post-season H2H's, and when he faced a Wilt with an equal supporting cast, watched helplessly as Chamberlain destroyed he and his eight time defending champs in a near sweep?

Hakeem? :roll: :roll: :roll: The same Hakeem who could only go to THREE Finals in his 18 seasons? The same Hakeem who couldn't win with Pippen and Barkley (and couldn't even make the Finals); the same Hakeem who carrled his team down in flames in EIGHT FIRST ROUNDS...almost all of which were blowouts? The same Hakeem, who won one ring in a season in which the best player in the league took the year off? The same Hakeem who won a second ring in a series in which a young Shaq outplayed him, but was saved by his teammates? :roll: :roll: :roll:

Wilt's teams were at least losing to legendary teams, and not average teams comprised of no-names.
I dont usually like your posts, but you destroyed half of ISH with this one. :applause:

[Psileas]

Losing more often than not at any level is unacceptable. The way I look at it: if you're good enough to make it to the Finals, you're good enough to win it all.

If you make 10 first rounds, you should win atleast 6

of the 6 times you make the 2nd round. you should win at least 4

of the 4 times you make the 3rd round. you should win at least 3

of the 3 times you make the finals. you should win at least 2

There is no excuse for losing more often than you win at any level.

So yes, it is much much much more impressive to make the finals and lose than lose in the 1st round, but that does not change the fact that you should have a winning record at every level. Especially if you're getting to that level a bunch of times.

As long as 2 teams play each time, it makes no sense to claim the bolded. It's statistically definite that lots and lots of players, including all-time greats are going to lose more than they win. Mr.Clutch, Logo, top-5 playoff scorer, etc himself has a 1/9 record in the Finals, way worse than Wilt's.

Plus, your ratios hardly make sense as well: Why are you expected to win more often in the NBA or Conference Finals than the 1st round?

[EllisGW]

Wtf is 2/6........ Since when is this baseball.....wtf is wrong with you white people

[Marchesk]

Wtf is 2/6........ Since when is this baseball.....wtf is wrong with you white people

http://media.giphy.com/media/KzOPJCb4VU93i/giphy.gif

[Prometheus]

Wtf is 2/6........ Since when is this baseball.....wtf is wrong with you white people

:coleman:

[branslowski]

Comparing longevity stats when one career is twice as long as the other :facepalm

When Brons career gets compared to Kobe's, you then show career facts..

[LBJ 23]

OP Lebron is better than Kobe ever was, deal with it. You can make thousands of threads with similar agenda and it won't change the fact that Lebron is better at basketball than Kobe ever was :oldlol:

Except that you can't read. Who's saying anything about career achievements(and when its all said and done Lebron will crush Kobe in that department too, and you know it and you're scared shitless about this fact)

[branslowski]

Except that you can't read. Who's saying anything about career achievements(and when its said and done Lebron will crush Kobe in that department too)

Not with a 2-6inch d!ck:no:

[Ne 1]

Why are you expected to win more often in the NBA or Conference Finals than the 1st round?

The natural evolution of a great players career is:

a) mediocre
b) become good
c) become great
d) good again
e) Decline and enter into the twilight of your career, becoming mediocre again


So theres a curve in a natural progression and regression.

If a player spends his entire career winning the 1st round, but losing most of his 2nd round appearances... then his career didnt take a natural curve. it stalled and never peaked.


No evolution = spending more time at one level and leaving it open to a losing record in the next level up.

In James case he never evolved to "become great" so to speak, he was forever stuck in the "become good" stage. so his records look great from 1st, 2nd and 3rd rounds then flop in the 4th round.

So in other words, he is consistently good, but not "great" that's what a losing Finals record means.

[riseagainst]

The natural evolution of a great players career is:

a) mediocre
b) become good
c) become great
d) good again
e) Decline and enter into the twilight of your career, becoming mediocre again


So theres a curve in a natural progression and regression.

If a player spends his entire career winning the 1st round, but losing most of his 2nd round appearances... then his career didnt take a natural curve. it stalled and never peaked.


No evolution = spending more time at one level and leaving it open to a losing record in the next level up.

In James case he never evolved to "become great" so to speak, he was forever stuck in the "become good" stage. so his records look great from 1st, 2nd and 3rd rounds then flop in the 4th round.

So in other words, he is consistently good, but not "great" that's what a losing Finals record means.


bro... he made the finals 5 years in a row.
But nahhhh, he's just mediocre.

:lol
:roll:

[sd3035]

Wilt and Lebald are 1 and 2 in both choking and statpadding :lol

[Ne 1]

bro... he made the finals 5 years in a row.
But nahhhh, he's just mediocre.

:lol
:roll:

He's a good player, no doubt about it. But that doesn't change the fact that he sure hasn't beat expectations winning 2 in 5 years.

[bluechox2]

so called best player shrivels up in crunch time

[SexSymbol]

Both Wilt and LeBron are regarded as better players than they trully are because of impressive stats they put up.
Stats don't mean shit, it's all about leadership and wins.

[HOoopCityJones]

bro... he made the finals 5 years in a row.
But nahhhh, he's just mediocre.

:lol
:roll:

If Lebron left Cleveland again and went to Bulls and made a Finals, how amazing should that really be considered? because right now it looks like he's jumping from squad to squad.

[bluechox2]

If Lebron left Cleveland again and went to Bulls and made a Finals, how amazing should that really be considered? because right now it looks like he's jumping from squad to squad.

hes a merc, gos to places that better suits him

[LAZERUSS]

Both Wilt and LeBron are regarded as better players than they trully are because of impressive stats they put up.
Stats don't mean shit, it's all about leadership and wins.

:roll: :roll: :roll:

Swap rosters with Russell in the 60's, and Wilt would have been considered a FAR greater "leader" and "winner" than Russell.

But thanks for the good laugh.

[Ne 1]

Wilt and Lebald are 1 and 2 in both choking and statpadding :lol

His 1968 series in particular is just inexcusable and as embarrassing as LeBron was in 2011 vs Dallas. Your teammate gives you 40 points to help you close out a series up 3-1, and all you can manage is 20 pts on 6/21 shooting and 8/23 from the line? And then seemingly hide away from the ball in the game 7 which was a close game from start to finish? (It's well documented that he wasn't demanding the ball and when he got the ball, he was passive.) Sorry, but his playoff record is just so poor, I can't put him in the top 5 or consider him a GOAT candidate. 1969 finals too, almost had his offensive production cut in half during the finals.

I mean I've heard of players having more FGA than points, but more FGA and FTA each than points? No excuses, that's choking, a chance to close out the series and Wilt turns in what was probably one of the worst playoff performances ever by an all time great, much less in their prime despite his teammate stepping up big time. Right up there with LeBron's meltdown in his prime against the Mavs in 2011 despite Wade putting up a Finals MVP worthy performance.

[Prometheus]

The natural evolution of a great players career is:

a) mediocre
b) become good
c) become great
d) good again
e) Decline and enter into the twilight of your career, becoming mediocre again


So theres a curve in a natural progression and regression.

If a player spends his entire career winning the 1st round, but losing most of his 2nd round appearances... then his career didnt take a natural curve. it stalled and never peaked.


No evolution = spending more time at one level and leaving it open to a losing record in the next level up.

In James case he never evolved to "become great" so to speak, he was forever stuck in the "become good" stage. so his records look great from 1st, 2nd and 3rd rounds then flop in the 4th round.

So in other words, he is consistently good, but not "great" that's what a losing Finals record means.

You are very, VERY dumb.

[LAZERUSS]

His 1968 series in particular is just inexcusable and as embarrassing as LeBron was in 2011 vs Dallas. Your teammate gives you 40 points to help you close out a series up 3-1, and all you can manage is 20 pts on 6/21 shooting and 8/23 from the line? And then seemingly hide away from the ball in the game 7 which was a close game from start to finish? (It's well documented that he wasn't demanding the ball and when he got the ball, he was passive.) Sorry, but his playoff record is just so poor, I can't put him in the top 5 or consider him a GOAT candidate. 1969 finals too, almost had his offensive production cut in half during the finals.

I mean I've heard of players having more FGA than points, but more FGA and FTA each than points? No excuses, that's choking, a chance to close out the series and Wilt turns in what was probably one of the worst playoff performances ever by an all time great, much less in their prime despite his teammate stepping up big time.

Maybe try doing some actual RESEARCH on the '68 EDF's, instead of spewing complete nonsense.

Wilt played every minute of that series with an assortment of injuries, including a tear in his calf, which was essentially the same injury that turned Reed into a worthless statue in the last three games of the '70 Finals...and was NOTICEABLY LIMPING throughout the series.

And in what could have been a clinching game five win, he annihilated Russell...BUT, TWO more of his starters went down with injuries.

The core of that Sixer team was decimated by injuries, including Wilt himself, and yet, they still lost a game SEVEN by FOUR points. Had they been healthy, they would have easily repeated their near sweep of Boston just the year before.

Oh, and BTW...an injured, limping Wilt hung a 22-25-7 series on Russell.

[Ne 1]

He's done it! LeBron James has matched Wilt Chamberlain. :bowdown: