My post-1978 Top 10s per position and in tiers

[Jasi]

So here's what it is.
I don't like individual rankings 'cause it gets too hazy.
But I do like to group players in tiers.
I wanted to make it all time but I don't want to judge players that were there before I was even born. So I excluded players which weren't active after 1978, which also matches the introduction of the 3pt line.

It's still hazy of course.
There might be huge lapses.
I expect helpful remarks from older ISHers, blind hate from younger ISHiots, but here it is.

(Within tiers, players are listed in alphabetical order).



TOP 10 POINT GUARDS post-1978

1st tier
Earvin 'Magic' Johnson, John Stockton, Isiah Thomas

2nd tier
Nate 'Tiny' Archibald, Walt 'Clyde' Frazier, Jason Kidd, Steve Nash

3rd tier
Dennis Johnson, Tony Parker, Gary Payton

honorable mention: Kevin Johnson



TOP 10 SHOOTING GUARDS post-1978

1st tier
Kobe Bryant, Michael Jordan

2nd tier
Clyde Drexler, George Gervin, Allen Iverson, Dwyane Wade

3rd tier
Ray Allen, 'Pistol' Pete Maravich, Reggie Miller, Earl Monroe

honorable mention: McGrady



TOP 10 SMALL FORWARDS post-1978

1st tier
Larry Bird, Julius 'Dr.J' Erving, LeBron James

2nd tier
Rick Barry, Kevin Durant, Scottie Pippen, Dominique Wilkins

3rd tier
Bernard King, Paul Pierce, James Worthy

honorable mention: David Thompson



TOP 10 POWER FORWARDS post-1978

1st tier
Tim Duncan, Karl Malone

2nd tier
Charles Barkley, Kevin Garnett, Elvin Hayes, Kevin McHale, Dirk Nowitzki

3rd tier
Bob McAdoo, Dennis Rodman, Chris Webber

honorable mention: Pau



TOP 10 CENTERS post-1978

1st tier
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Shaquille O'Neal, Hakeem Olajuwon

2nd tier
Patrick Ewing, Moses Malone, David Robinson, Wes Unseld

3rd tier
Dave Cowens, Robert Parish, Bill Walton

honorable mention: Bob Lanier

[aj1987]

So much fail.... :facepalm

[Jasi]

Clyde Drexler 1st tier.. lmao.

Yup, that might be a stretch actually; and I can move it to the 2nd, but he'd be the best in the 2nd tier however.

[Jasi]

So much fail.... :facepalm

Care to elaborate?

[ArbitraryWater]

Jasi, I am disappoint.. did not expect this of you.

In tiers are randomly sorted or in order?

[Jasi]

it's written in the OP: in tiers it's just alphabetical order (by last name)


please do elaborate on what you guys disagree with

[ArbitraryWater]

Next time just pass the list to me, via PM or something, lemme take a glance at it, correct mistakes and all :cheers:

[Jasi]

Next time just pass the list to me, via PM or something, lemme take a glance at it, correct mistakes and all :cheers:

Well, do it now :confusedshrug:

[ArbitraryWater]

Well, do it now :confusedshrug:

:lol I'm just trolling bro, on my phone so can't really bother.. there are some things I disagree with, but there is always, for anyone.. maybe later.

[aj1987]

Care to elaborate?
GP is not a tier below Kidd and Nash. Glide being a tier above Wade is just laughable. KD is not in the 2nd tier yet. Chuck and KG and tier 1 PF's. Ranking Karl a tier above KG and Chuck is just not right. Pau is tier 2 at worst, BTW. Centers are ranked properly, but you forgot Bill Russell, Zo, Thurmond, Bellamy, Gilmore, Big Ben, and Mutombo.

EDIT: You forgot Hondo as well.

[Fallen Angel]

The cast of Open Court feel strongly that Gary Payton is on the same class as Jason Kidd and at the same time higher than Steve Nash.

[Jasi]

GP is not a tier below Kidd and Nash. Glide being a tier above Wade is just laughable. KD is not in the 2nd tier yet. Chuck and KG and tier 1 PF's. Ranking Karl a tier above KG and Chuck is just not right. Pau is tier 2 at worst, BTW. Centers are ranked properly, but you forgot Bill Russell, Zo, Thurmond, Bellamy, Gilmore, Big Ben, and Mutombo.

EDIT: You forgot Hondo as well.

And you forgot the 1978 cut-off though :D

[aj1987]

And you forgot the 1978 cut-off though :D
My bad. The rest of the post still stands though.

GP is not a tier below Kidd and Nash. Glide being a tier above Wade is just laughable. KD is not in the 2nd tier yet. Chuck and KG and tier 1 PF's. Ranking Karl a tier above KG and Chuck is just not right. Pau is tier 2 at worst, BTW. Centers are ranked properly, but you forgot Zo, Big Ben, and Mutombo.

[the mesiah]

Yup, that might be a stretch actually; and I can move it to the 2nd, but he'd be the best in the 2nd tier however.
http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/923112/heat.gif

[plowking]

Yup, that might be a stretch actually; and I can move it to the 2nd, but he'd be the best in the 2nd tier however.

He is actually the worst player in your second tier.

[Jasi]

My bad. The rest of the post still stands though.

GP is not a tier below Kidd and Nash. Glide being a tier above Wade is just laughable. KD is not in the 2nd tier yet. Chuck and KG and tier 1 PF's. Ranking Karl a tier above KG and Chuck is just not right. Pau is tier 2 at worst, BTW. Centers are ranked properly, but you forgot Zo, Big Ben, and Mutombo.

I feel you about GP. I was actually quite undecided. I am quite sure I'd pick Kidd over him anyways, with Nash it's a toss up probably.

With PFs the thing is, I actually feel that Timmy is up there and then there is the rest. Malone, Dirk, KG, Chuck etc. But I never have tiers with one only player, so I had to pick one among those and I feel Karl has the slight edge over the others.

As for Centers, who would you remove from the list to include those three? I was undecided between Lanier and Zo for the honorable mention but from what I read and saw about Lanier I think he has the slight edge.

[Dr Hawk]

I would put KG with TD in the 1st tier and Malone in the 2nd tier


Dwight should be in some tier as well, he was a complete beast when he was in his prime.

[aj1987]

1. I feel you about GP. I was actually quite undecided. I am quite sure I'd pick Kidd over him anyways, with Nash it's a toss up probably.

2. With PFs the thing is, I actually feel that Timmy is up there and then there is the rest. Malone, Dirk, KG, Chuck etc. But I never have tiers with one only player, so I had to pick one among those and I feel Karl has the slight edge over the others.

3. As for Centers, who would you remove from the list to include those three? I was undecided between Lanier and Zo for the honorable mention but from what I read and saw about Lanier I think he has the slight edge.
1. Although GP wasn't the playmaker that Nash was, he was every bit as impactful as Nash. Probably even more, with his defense. See his defense on MJ in the '96 Finals.

2. Hence, I didn't mention TD. Still, KG was an ATG defender and could score, pass, and rebound better than almost every other PF. Timmy is the only one who does thing better than KG. The only thing that Karl has over KG and Chuck is longevity. Heck, most people consider that prime Chuck > prime Malone.

3. You don't need to remove anyone. You can just throw them in there.

[WillC]

If this is post-1978, what the hell are Rick Barry, Walt Frazier and others doing on your list?

They were legends back in their heyday, but not post-1978 :facepalm

[Jasi]

If this is post-1978, what the hell are Rick Barry, Walt Frazier and others doing on your list?

They were legends back in their heyday, but not post-1978 :facepalm


From the OP:

I excluded players which weren't active after 1978

Not so difficult to grasp.
I never said they had to have their primes post-1978.

[Rocketswin2013]

How is Chris Paul not in a single tier?

[Rocketswin2013]

You put Karl Malone next to Tim Duncan?

[Jasi]

You put Karl Malone next to Tim Duncan?

Already talked about that.
No, I feel TD is surely better, but I don't want to have single-player tiers.

[Jasi]

How is Chris Paul not in a single tier?

Why would he?
Despite being made in tiers, these are Top 10s.
Do you think CP3 is a Top 10 PG all-time (post-1978)?
If yes, who would you remove from my list?

[HOoopCityJones]

OP, I think you pissed off Wade stans because you put the 2nd tier SG's in alphabetical order, lol

[kshutts1]

Already talked about that.
No, I feel TD is surely better, but I don't want to have single-player tiers.
What do tiers mean to you?

To me, an entire tier should be comprised of players that one could make an argument for all of them being better than the others.

As in... Kobe and Jordan on the same tier, there should be a valid argument for why Jordan is better than Kobe, and why Kobe is better than Jordan. Their all-time ranking should be similar, debatable.

One-player tiers are, sometimes, a necessity.

Lastly, your PGs are the most messed up ranking, IMO. I'll give my thoughts on that in another post.

[T_L_P]

Why would he?
Despite being made in tiers, these are Top 10s.
Do you think CP3 is a Top 10 PG all-time (post-1978)?
If yes, who would you remove from my list?

Chris Paul, replacing Tony Parker.

17/3/6/1/.550 TS% vs 19/4/10/2/.578 TS% in Regular Season

18/3/5/1/.514 TS% vs. 21/5/10/2/.584 TS% in Playoffs

4x champion
Finals MVP
6x All-Star
4x All-NBA (3x 2nd Team, 1x 3rd Team)

8x All-Star
7x All-NBA (4x 1st Team, 2x 2nd Team, 1x 3rd Team)
7x All-Defensive Team (5x 1st Team, 2x 2nd Team)

Not sure what your criteria is here though. If it's solely based on resume, maybe I can see where you're coming from (though I still disagree).

Also, how is Earl Monroe over Manu Ginobili?

[kshutts1]

TOP 10 POINT GUARDS post-1978

1st tier
Earvin 'Magic' Johnson,
2nd tier
Walt 'Clyde' Frazier, Jason Kidd, John Stockton, Isiah Thomas, Chris Paul

3rd tier
Steve Nash, Tiny, Tim Hardaway, Gary Payton

honorable mention: Kevin Johnson, Mark PriceTony Parker



TOP 10 SHOOTING GUARDS post-1978

1st tier
Michael Jordan

2nd tier
Kobe Bryant

3rd tier
Clyde Drexler, George Gervin, Allen Iverson, Dwyane Wade

4th tier
Ray Allen, 'Pistol' Pete Maravich, Moncrief, McGrady

honorable mention: Earl, Reggie



TOP 10 SMALL FORWARDS post-1978

1st tier
Larry Bird, LeBron James

2nd tier
Rick Barry, Kevin Durant, Scottie Pippen, Doc

3rd tier
Wilkins, Bernard King, Paul Pierce, English

honorable mention: David Thompson, Worthy, Melo



TOP 10 POWER FORWARDS post-1978

1st tier
Tim Duncan, Kevin Garnett (my bias... most would have Duncan be alone)

2nd tier
Charles Barkley, Karl, Dirk Nowitzki

3rd tier
Elvin Hayes, Kevin McHale, Bob McAdoo, Pau, Chris Webber

honorable mention: Rodman (I really feel like I am missing someone pretty noteworthy from this group)



TOP 10 CENTERS post-1978

1st tier
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Shaquille O'Neal

2nd tier
Olajuwon

3rd tier
Moses

4th tier
Patrick Ewing, David Robinson, Wes Unseld
Dave Cowens, Dwight Howard, Mutombo

honorable mention: Bob Lanier, Walton, Big Ben, Zo Yao

[TripleA]

I would put moses and Hakeem in the same tier